Devs nerfing is often bad for pvm

[Demon Killer]

I notice a lot of request for nerfing this and nerfing that and i must admit it concerns me heres why i do not pvp but i do enjoy pvm. i like things for the most part the way they are. i know greater dragons will be nerfed eventually and i don't think that will be good for pvm as for pvp maybe its good maybe not i wouldn't know for sure unless i pvp.

• One reason i don't want greater dragons nerfed in pvm is that greater dragons are 5 followers so we need to be on foot so we need greater dragons to be very strong to make up for us not being able to ride something and no i don't want my tamer to be a ninja in animal form i like the skills he has and dont want to get rid of any of them.

• Another nerf that i noticed that already happened that has nothing to do with pvp i noticed is luck granted we can have higher luck now then ever before now but most of the spawn seems to give lower or low level loot even with the highest luck not good if you ask me after all normally a high luck set has low resist its very rare to have a high luck one with good resist and lrc so i think that should have been sacrifice enough so i say let luck matter again like it once did.

• One player told me that you can get better items with 1000-1200 luck then from 1600 luck which in my opinion is dumb if you ask me that needs to be fixed if its true. maybe most of you don't care for luck but my favorite sets to wear is high luck and 100 lrc and believe me players with high luck die more often then those with good resist so its sacrifice for having high luck but to me thats only acceptable if luck makes a noticeable differnce now a days its hardly noticeable which is sad in my opinion.

• Another nerf request i heard requested is to nerf mages, nerf tamers and nerf necros maybe in pvp there might be a problem with them but i think they are fine in pvm.

• To sum this up first of all the majority of players do not pvp and the majority of players are not members of these or any uo forums so you are only hearing a small percentage of the players when you hear a request for a nerf or what ever. i know i am only one person but i don't want things nerfed in pvm if there isnt a problem with it in pvm so please if your going to nerf things in pvp please do it in a way to not negatively affect it in pvm if theres no problem with it in pvm if its at all possible because we non pvp players need some consideration too thanks.

 

[lucitus]

To sum this up first of all the majority of players do not pvp and the majority of players are not members of these or any uo forums so you are only hearing a small percentage of the players when you hear a request for a nerf or what ever. i know i am only one person but i don't want things nerfed in pvm if there isnt a problem with it in pvm so please if your going to nerf things in pvp please do it in a way to not negatively affect it in pvm if theres no problem with it in pvm if its at all possible because we non pvp players need some consideration too thanks.

And whats the problem? The Majority get greater dragons, get cu-shides, get new war horses and what is with the miniority who pvp? What do they get?

So i think a tamer in our times, i play one in pvm, sorry but is overpowered. If you want higher loot from monsters like normal dragons or lich lords, like former times, this monster should also be more different to kill. And this means not to be more AI or more necro spells, this should be simple lowering damage of pets and weapons and it would be more interesting again. It is cool to solo a baracoon for example, but it makes more fun if you need more people and tactic to kill.

In my opinion they can lower the damage in pvm down -20% - -30% i think it would be more interesting, but i also think there should be more good loot also then on lich lords, or other high fame creatures.

 

[Demon Killer]

And whats the problem? The Majority get greater dragons, get cu-shides, get new war horses and what is with the miniority who pvp? What do they get?

Well you can get the nerf you requested without it affecting pvm so those who pvp and those who don't pvp are happy.

 

[Doomsday Dragon]

And whats the problem? The Majority get greater dragons, get cu-shides, get new war horses and what is with the miniority who pvp? What do they get?

The shaft? Cuz that is what it seems like to me being one of those in the minority.

Seriously anyone complaining about pvm should find a new game to play because PvM is and has been fine for a very long time. PvP on the other hand does and has needed some serious attention for a long time.

 

[Lore Master]

I notice a lot of request for nerfing this and nerfing that and i must admit it concerns me heres why i do not pvp but i do enjoy pvm. i like things for the most part the way they are. i know greater dragons will be nerfed eventually and i don't think that will be good for pvm as for pvp maybe its good maybe not i wouldn't know for sure unless i pvp.

• One reason i don't want greater dragons nerfed in pvm is that greater dragons are 5 followers so we need to be on foot so we need greater dragons to be very strong to make up for us not being able to ride something and no i don't want my tamer to be a ninja in animal form i like the skills he has and dont want to get rid of any of them.

• Another nerf that i noticed that already happened that has nothing to do with pvp i noticed is luck granted we can have higher luck now then ever before now but most of the spawn seems to give lower or low level loot even with the highest luck not good if you ask me after all normally a high luck set has low resist its very rare to have a high luck one with good resist and lrc so i think that should have been sacrifice enough so i say let luck matter again like it once did.

• One player told me that you can get better items with 1000-1200 luck then from 1600 luck which in my opinion is dumb if you ask me that needs to be fixed if its true. maybe most of you don't care for luck but my favorite sets to wear is high luck and 100 lrc and believe me players with high luck die more often then those with good resist so its sacrifice for having high luck but to me thats only acceptable if luck makes a noticeable differnce now a days its hardly noticeable which is sad in my opinion.

• Another nerf request i heard requested is to nerf mages, nerf tamers and nerf necros maybe in pvp there might be a problem with them but i think they are fine in pvm.

• To sum this up first of all the majority of players do not pvp and the majority of players are not members of these or any uo forums so you are only hearing a small percentage of the players when you hear a request for a nerf or what ever. i know i am only one person but i don't want things nerfed in pvm if there isnt a problem with it in pvm so please if your going to nerf things in pvp please do it in a way to not negatively affect it in pvm if theres no problem with it in pvm if its at all possible because we non pvp players need some consideration too thanks.

I couldn't agree more well said.

 

[Sarphus]

First I need to say that my primary char is a tamer.

I have mixed feelings on greater dragons, but for the most part I think they are a little overpowered. I think the only thing that makes them look almost balanced is the fact that sampires are so much more overpowered in pvm.

I think the relative balance from PVM specialized characters that are casters, tamers, etc is somewhat balanced with a few obvious exceptions that are centered around well known exploits. The problem is that the relative balance is at such a high level that it's difficult for any monster to be created that is a challenge without being an instant-killing monster.

With characters being as strong as they are right now, it's hard to envision a monster that's not soloable without the monster also having HPR higher than it is possible for a single character to do in damage.

Am I the only one that thinks it's wrong that a sampire can solo a harrower?

 

[o2bavr6]

[*] One reason i don't want greater dragons nerfed in pvm is that greater dragons are 5 followers so we need to be on foot so we need greater dragons to be very strong to make up for us not being able to ride something and no i don't want my tamer to be a ninja in animal form i like the skills he has and dont want to get rid of any of them.

[*]Another nerf request i heard requested is to nerf mages, nerf tamers and nerf necros maybe in pvp there might be a problem with them but i think they are fine in pvm.

I belive in most cases for the two above comments had to do with PvP and nothing to do with PvM.

In fact most people said leave it the way it is now for PvM.

Now if they Devs mess things up for PvM while trying to fox it for PvP is a different issue, but if that is the case you are speaking to the wrong people here. You should be talking to the Devs

 

[Marcus Blackwell]

Im all for them balancing pets for PvP reasons just hope they dont screw it up to the point where it effects PvMing with pets and if it does hope it doesent effect it to badly. My main concern on the Greater Dragons is if the balancing/nerf effect PvM that the Dragon wont be worth having as a five slot pet. To me a five slot pet needs to be a pet that is the top pet out there to have for PvMing and if they nerf it to the point that say all pets are basically equal damage wise in PvM then whats the use having many different kinds of pets PvM wise?

 

[Vyrquenox]

So i think a tamer in our times, i play one in pvm, sorry but is overpowered. If you want higher loot from monsters like normal dragons or lich lords, like former times, this monster should also be more different to kill. And this means not to be more AI or more necro spells, this should be simple lowering damage of pets and weapons and it would be more interesting again. It is cool to solo a baracoon for example, but it makes more fun if you need more people and tactic to kill.

]

Again again you people blast on with how your opinions are facts. 'for example...' Just because you THINK it makes it more fun does not make it a bar of steel and an international standard. Properly phrased you would say 'I think it would be more fun for ME'.

 

[Vyrquenox]

First I need to say that my primary char is a tamer.

I have mixed feelings on greater dragons, but for the most part I think they are a little overpowered. I think the only thing that makes them look almost balanced is the fact that sampires are so much more overpowered in pvm.

I think the relative balance from PVM specialized characters that are casters, tamers, etc is somewhat balanced with a few obvious exceptions that are centered around well known exploits. The problem is that the relative balance is at such a high level that it's difficult for any monster to be created that is a challenge without being an instant-killing monster.

With characters being as strong as they are right now, it's hard to envision a monster that's not soloable without the monster also having HPR higher than it is possible for a single character to do in damage.

Am I the only one that thinks it's wrong that a sampire can solo a harrower?

OMFG. Get OFF IT.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Lets put some facts on the table and some information to be confirmed.

The Fact, Ultima Online delivered the greatest NERF in the history of ALL MMORPG's, so great in fact that the ONE NERF exceeds all nerfs by all MMORPG's put together.

That nerf was to Tamers. Putting Control Slots on Pets and Tamer Control Slot Caps (5).

The information to be confirmed, The Dragons and Nightmare were NERFED to what they are today, a WEAK / PALE image of what they had been.

The information to be confirmed, the Greater Dragon and Dread War Horse are an attempt to partially restore the ORIGINAL Dragons and Nightmare. BUT NOT AS POWERFUL.

I left before the two NERFS were performed. I know for a FACT the first NERF is dead on true. When I left the hit points for a Pet were NOT displayed so I can not say the second nerf is fact.

IF THE SECOND NERF IS TRUE, then the PvP people in UO, whining here on these boards, are the most incompetent, weak a$$ babies I have ever seen. We went after the (alleged) Tamer with Original Dragons in armor that is nothing compared to what you have today, with weapons that are nothing compared to what you have today AND WON.

And what a bunch of whiny disingenuous con posters, "Oh we dont want the change to have any impact on PvM but hey we know the Devs can not get it right so if there is an impact well then it is the Devs fault not ours MUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA "

I can only hope this team sees these disingenuous posters for what they are and move on to other things that really do need attention.

Make no mistakes, if those two information needing to be confirmed are true, then really shame on YOU the disingenuous PvP babies demanding a NERF to what you can not or will not take the time, to figure out how to beat them. You want the Devs to beat them for you and Oh by the way, if that kills the taming template then well it wasn't us MUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

.....
Am I the only one that thinks it's wrong that a sampire can solo a harrower?

OR

That an Archer can take the Paragon Balron down in 2 or 3 arrows, while this GODLY VASTLY OVER POWERD Greater Dragons take MINUTES TO WIN with constant veting.

That a Melee can take that Paragon Balron down in less than a minute, while this GODLY VASTLY OVER POWERD Greater Dragons take MINUTES TO WIN with constant veting.

 

[Viper09]

OR

That an Archer can take the Paragon Balron down in 2 or 3 arrows, while this GODLY VASTLY OVER POWERD Greater Dragons take MINUTES TO WIN with constant veting.

That a Melee can take that Paragon Balron down in less than a minute, while this GODLY VASTLY OVER POWERD Greater Dragons take MINUTES TO WIN with constant veting.

Can we say big exaggeration beyond the limit? I have a chivarly archer and I can't even take a Balron down in less then 10 minutes with a deamon slaying bow.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Can we say big exaggeration beyond the limit? I have a chivarly archer and I can't even take a Balron down in less then 10 minutes with a deamon slaying bow.

NO NOT an exaggeration, I saw this at last count 25+ times in Mel's Room.

Hardly an exaggeration, I can not explain your inabilities but here is the REAL FACTS based on my observations in Mels room.

I engage the Paragon Balron, Now comes either the Archer or the Melee,

The archer, 2 or 3 arrows Paragon Bally is dead, I could at most have done 20% damage.

The Melee, Again if I did 30% damage it would be bordering the incredulous. Time elapsed once the Melee is engaged Less than a Minute.

For the reading impaired, THE = a single individual.

The above is based on my soloing the Paragon Balron with the same GD in 3 to 4 minutes and constant veting. With the UNWANTED help, as in a single individual (when the Paragon Balron is GANGED UP on by other Pets, Templates, who can acuratly say who/what is doing the damage BUT ONE vs ONE? You bet it is crystalline clear), the Paragon Balron lasted, a SINGLE Archer less than 30 seconds, a SINGLE Meele (less than a Minute).

Last group, Again I am engaging the Paragon Balron and along comes a caster when the Paragon Balron is at 55% health or so. Cast one or two spells, the Paragon Balron drops to maybe 35 to 40% health, one different spell and the Paragon is Dead or requires one of the first spells cast, total elapsed time of engagement for the caster less than 30 seconds.

YOU can claim over exaggeration all you want, MY observations in Mels room says there is NO exaggeration PERIOD.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Can we say big exaggeration beyond the limit? I have a chivarly archer and I can't even take a Balron down in less then 10 minutes with a deamon slaying bow.

QFT

It's literally impossible to take a Para Balron down with 3 arrows. I have a maxxed out ABC archer with a Demon slayer Heavy Crossbow, which is the highest damage archery weapon there is, and it takes a helluva lot more than 3 bolts to take down a paragon.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

And if anyone wants to NERF Tamers AKA Kill off the Greater Dragon, then

I say, take all the Non Tamers means of Killing things, weapons, spells etc and REMOVE ALL Specialty characteristics on them. No Fire Damage, No Cold Damage, No, Poison Damage, No Energy Damage.

Make it so there is a SINGLE weapon type for each weapon skill that DOES NOT take advantage to any MoB's/PC etc's weak resists. Spells NO LONGER should look at individual resists and just assume 70% resist.

A Greater Dragon is a sinlge, all purpose weapon. The Tamer has ONE of them and MUST address all Resists levels of everything they encounter. Bring every other form of combat to that scenario, a SINGLE, ALL PURPOSE WEAPON/SPELL that must deal with everything. That they can NOT carry any other weapons / offensive spells with them.

 

[Connor_Graham]

NO NOT an exaggeration

Hardly an exaggeration

It doesn't matter how many times you say it's not an exaggeration, it damn sure is one. If Pinocchio was standing in California, facing east, and said what you are, someone in China would be getting a wooden enema right about now.

I engage the Paragon Balron, Now comes either the Archer or the Melee,

The archer, 2 or 3 arrows Paragon Bally is dead, I could at most have done 20% damage.

I call BULLS**T. It is impossible for 3 arrows/bolts from any bow in UO to down a Paragon Balron.

The above is based on my soloing the Paragon Balron with the same GD in 3 to 4 minutes and constant veting.

Which is faster than any archer or meleer could do the same. I know. I've done it with both.

With the UNWANTED help, the Paragon Balron lasted (Archer) less than 30 seconds, Meele (less than a Minute).

Uh yeah. You've got multiple people all doing damage, with the GD doing the tanking. You expected differently?

Last group, Again I am engaging the Paragon Balron and along comes a caster when the Paragon Balron is at 55% health or so. Cast one or two spells, the Paragon Balron drops to maybe 35 to 40% health, one different spell and the Paragon is Dead or requires one of the first spells cast, total elapsed time of engagement for the caster less than 30 seconds.

This is the only thing you've said that even has a slight ring of truth to it, and even this is an exaggeration.

YOU can claim over exaggeration all you want, MY observations in Mels room says there is NO exaggeration PERIOD.

Then you need new glasses, or need to stop smoking the wacky weed while playing, because you're seeing things.

What I find ironic is that you plainly stated you can solo a Para Balron with your GD in 3-4 minutes while not moving, yet not one of the other templates you mentioned could ever dream of doing the same by themselves, much less without having a lot of room to run around.

 

[Jeremy]

The generally successful philosophy is to balance the player characters to each other in PvP, then balance the monsters to the player character. It's much easier to do it that way than to either try to maintain two separate balances or to balance to PvE first.

My point being, yes, we may do things for PvP that nerf PvE, but we have other solutions for balancing PvE.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

The generally successful philosophy is to balance the player characters to each other in PvP, then balance the monsters to the player character. It's much easier to do it that way than to either try to maintain two separate balances or to balance to PvE first.

My point being, yes, we may do things for PvP that nerf PvE, but we have other solutions for balancing PvE.

If that is the philosophy, then why in the world were tameable greater dragons introduced as is?

They are certainly not balanced for PvP.

 

[Connor_Graham]

The generally successful philosophy is to balance the player characters to each other in PvP, then balance the monsters to the player character. It's much easier to do it that way than to either try to maintain two separate balances or to balance to PvE first.

My point being, yes, we may do things for PvP that nerf PvE, but we have other solutions for balancing PvE.

This would be all well and good if you guys would stop forgetting about the balance with meleers and monsters. It would be nice if a template that invests half of it's available skill points in defense could last more than 2 hits against the high end stuff.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

The generally successful philosophy is to balance the player characters to each other in PvP, then balance the monsters to the player character. It's much easier to do it that way than to either try to maintain two separate balances or to balance to PvE first.

My point being, yes, we may do things for PvP that nerf PvE, but we have other solutions for balancing PvE.

I am going to pervert your statement some what, not to beat you with, but to exaggerate for clarity, should you reply.

So, your saying that the Overwhelming majority of your customer base is subjected to NERFING their game play, so a statistically insignificant play style can have the game be the way they want and the overwhelmingly greater number of players do NOT get the game the way they want?

I am only exaggerating as I think a ... number of people will take your reply to mean.

In one sense, one must keep in mind the people posting on all boards, are a statistically insignificant number vs the player count of UO. That one can only hope the posters, some how, manage to actually reflect from time to time, the true and accurate feelings of the UO player base.

 

[Sarphus]

The generally successful philosophy is to balance the player characters to each other in PvP, then balance the monsters to the player character. It's much easier to do it that way than to either try to maintain two separate balances or to balance to PvE first.

My point being, yes, we may do things for PvP that nerf PvE, but we have other solutions for balancing PvE.

My only problem with that philosophy is that the mod caps are in different places for pvm than they are in pvp. For the most part that is still balanceable because monsters have a lot more hp than players.

The only problems that continually crops up is that pets don't have the pvp cap applied to them (and it sounds like they will) and dexer leeching in pvm with their 300% DI cap can effectively make a character invulnerable if played well.

Also, the mechanics of weapon specials and ninjitsu make them much more relevant in pvp than pvm.

so anyway... I'm not saying you're wrong... I'm just pointing out how discrepencies between the rules in pvp and the pvm complicate things.