NEWS Developer Meet And Greet On Mizuho 2-27-17

[MalagAste]

I think the worst part of all this is that the DEVs are too blatantly unaware of the goings on with cheating to realize that even with the 5 second rule you are still only punishing the REAL players... these multi-boxers are bright enough to program a macroing system to control >2 accounts they can program their master program to answer a silly inquiry in less than 5 seconds that's child's play... I on the other hand would have to stop what I'm doing and move my hands off my mouse and gamepad and over to the keys and actually try to read what they asked and figure out how to respond to something I may see once in a purple moon on a cloudy day ..... to reply in under 5 seconds which I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to do... but I'm fairly positive cheaters and multiboxers already have this macro in-place and it is done automatically...

 

[sirion]

I believe the 5 second rule is more of a general guideline (common sense) rather than a hard rule of Go/No-Go criteria for factory operators (count to 5 and ban!). But, of course, just as in RL, you will find folks who either dont understand it or will go extra length to mis-intrepret it.

 

[OREOGL]

Guys, everyone is worried about this 5 second rule.

Don't be, it's a false motivator.

Plus this was supposedly for the well known macroing areas, which I assume is something along the lines of Blackthorns etc.

Guess what, I found one in there a few days ago.

I also paged on a scripter in which no GM showed up and freely running around the next day I saw him.

So relax, this appears to be a lip service to make it look like they're doing something about it.

 

[Dimi]

If I was Messana's Boss, I would immediately fire her for incompetent community handling.
You don't say to players there's little you can do about cheating in the game you produce. That's lame.
You always say you are doing everything in your power to prevent cheating, but there will always be new challenges to tackle and you never know what next the cheaters will think of.
Otherwise the players will hardly appreciate your honesty, especially if you still force those players to pay for subs.
Is this game still in 1997? EVERYONE is now F2P, even EVE Online finally capitulated and implemented the model. F2P is fun - you can always tell the players: Hey! It's a free game, you don't get to have requests. You play for free, remember?
But I digress.
Guys, no one can defeat cheaters. there will always be multi-boxers, RMTers and cheaters. In all games. People will always try to automate games, which have mind-bogling, boring and repetitive mechanics. The more grind you force the players to do, the more ways will they seek to automate this grind. How many champs must you kill, in order to get 120 magery scroll? You are old players, you tell me. I heard you might as well grind champs for years without getting a 120 magery scroll. How is this mechanic fair? Ask THIS Messana, instead of asking her to ban accounts, who pay the money for the game to run.
Why does this game have so horrible New Player Experience?
How could new players come into it, if they must sit and learn how to make macros in the client, in order to perform a simple action like "cast this spell to this monster over there"?
How will I choose my class and profession from that horrible 2D screen at the start of the game, without knowing what the hell is this?
Why the female NPC is getting me killed at the start of the tutorial?
What the hell is going on?
These questions are lot more important than "When will the cheaters be banned", I think
Don't just ask her. Demand answers.
If she doesn't answer - cancel subs.
If 20% of the subs drop, you can be sure that all the necessarry actions will be taken very quickly. And they will even apologize. Because the only way to hurt them is with the money they take from you.
It already happened. In other games.
Until then you will get the same crap on every Meet and Greet. I guarantee you.

P.S. Fix your forum rules, please. Not allowing newcomers to post for a whole day after they register is not very 2017...

 

[Captn Norrington]

P.S. Fix your forum rules, please. Not allowing newcomers to post for a whole day after they register is not very 2017...

It's a way to prevent spam, which this site has always had significant issues with until a few months ago when some things were changed to prevent it. We used to get like 25+ spam posts every day, now we have none.

Your post got caught in the spam filter for some reason, I noticed it and approved it, sorry about the delay. It might happen for the next 2-3 posts also but it shouldn't take long for a moderator to notice and fix it.

 

[Promathia]

Every other MMO I've ever played of any decent quality either has far fewer cheats available or cracks down on them. Never seen another as bad as UO.

BS

What other MMO's have you even actually played? Serious question

 

[Ender]

BS

What other MMO's have you even actually played? Serious question

A few. SWTOR, WoW, LotRO, Guild Wars 1 and 2. Asheron's Call though I don't remember much of it. The first three I've definitely not seen the blatant cheating that this game suffers from, Guild Wars 1 you couldn't tell if there were bots because instanced areas. 2 I didn't play much of.

Those games have sure as F*** never just come out and said cheating is okay like the joke this game has become.

 

[CovenantX]

Who said "Cheating is okay" in UO?

 

[Uriah Heep]

Who said "Cheating is okay" in UO?

*groans*

Someone hasn't been paying attention

 

[Captn Norrington]

A few. SWTOR, WoW, LotRO, Guild Wars 1 and 2. Asheron's Call though I don't remember much of it. The first three I've definitely not seen the blatant cheating that this game suffers from, Guild Wars 1 you couldn't tell if there were bots because instanced areas. 2 I didn't play much of.

Those games have sure as F*** never just come out and said cheating is okay like the joke this game has become.

I was a beta tester and early player of SWTOR, there were a LOT of bugs, exploits, and cheats for the first year of the games existence. They fixed pretty much all of them by the second year though. These days the occasional exploit or whatever pops up, but there is no serious cheating left and the devs squash exploits within a few days normally.

An example of one of the pretty large exploits from the early days is that as I'm sure you know the game has a skill called "slicing" which essentially lets you find boxes of in game currency. Well, for the first few months there was an exploit where you could obtain completely ridiculous amounts of slicing lockboxes full of money with no effort at all. All you had to do was keep pressing the "start mission" button over and over again and it would keep dumping money into your backpack forever. It was possible to make the UO modern equivalent of 1+ billion gold per day by doing this. It took the developers a few months to fix the exploit and by then many players already had completely absurd amounts of currency (which alot of them still have to this day). There were a lot of "gold selling" websites back then too, getting unlimited currency from the exploit and then selling it to new players for thousands of dollars in real money profit.

 

[Lord Nabin]

::reads thread::: ::shakes head:: ::starts looking for the wine that other guy is always drinking:: "I know he hides it somewhere in here."

*Looks up from his table by the fire and waves his old friend over then pours a nice tall glass of Good Old Moonglow Red for him*

 

[grimiz]

I'm really not disagreeing with you option of how the game should be run. But Mesanna's opinion trumps all. I mean we have gray servers out there that dupe UO for free. We have the buy one get 3 months free. I gotta think this is kinda low on the list if I had my wishing wand. My feeling is a couple players will probably get a 3 day ban or something with Mesanna's new 5 second rule statement. A big hoopla will be made of it and that will be about it.

WTF is this new 5 second rule ********. I set up a completely legal, in game repeating macro to attack miasma, and went to change the laundry over. I come back to a GM asking me to "please respond" in the bucs jail. I'm like, umm yeah I'm here, send me back to where I was before the corpses rot...

Seriously, if you cannot tell the difference between a bot, and someone who set up a macro that your client allows then grow a brain.

If they wanted to find bots they VERY EASILY could with a couple sql queries... assuming the game isn't still saving to proprietary flat files....

 

[Capt. Lucky]

WTF is this new 5 second rule ********. I set up a completely legal, in game repeating macro to attack miasma, and went to change the laundry over. I come back to a GM asking me to "please respond" in the bucs jail. I'm like, umm yeah I'm here, send me back to where I was before the corpses rot...

Seriously, if you cannot tell the difference between a bot, and someone who set up a macro that your client allows then grow a brain.

If they wanted to find bots they VERY EASILY could with a couple sql queries... assuming the game isn't still saving to proprietary flat files....

Bots, macros or whatever. You need to be at the computer playing and able to respond. As I understand. Did they actually ban you or anything?

 

[grimiz]

Bots, macros or whatever. You need to be at the computer playing and able to respond. As I understand. Did they actually ban you or anything?

No, but probably lucky I got back in time to see the GM.

 

[CovenantX]

*groans*

Someone hasn't been paying attention

Well, the Current Producer & Devs have never said "Cheating is Okay"...

The only time I remember anything even remotely close to that, was when Jeff Skalski was the Producer and he once talked about a new shard that cheaters would be exiled to, a place where they can cheat all they want... but they'd be playing with other people that have also been caught cheating... other then that, there has been nothing.

But hey, the Putrefier changes wouldn't have even come about if they had condoned cheating, right?

Saying things like "There's not much we can do about Mutli-Boxers" doesn't say it's okay to cheat.
"Win any way you want to win" doesn't specify anything, but it's easy to assume that "Cheating" could be included in that...

People are going to assume what they want to assume with what they see and read.... that being said, here we are!

 

[Lord Frodo]

Well, the Current Producer & Devs have never said "Cheating is Okay"...

The only time I remember anything even remotely close to that, was when Jeff Skalski was the Producer and he once talked about a new shard that cheaters would be exiled to, a place where they can cheat all they want... but they'd be playing with other people that have also been caught cheating... other then that, there has been nothing.

But hey, the Putrefier changes wouldn't have even come about if they had condoned cheating, right?

Saying things like "There's not much we can do about Mutli-Boxers" doesn't say it's okay to cheat.
"Win any way you want to win" doesn't specify anything, but it's easy to assume that "Cheating" could be included in that...

People are going to assume what they want to assume with what they see and read.... that being said, here we are!

Sadly you are stating only part of what she said, here is the whole statement
Mesanna: in game and running multi characters
Mesanna: I told everyone that we can't really do much about multiboxing
Mesanna: but you better be in game if you run it
Mesanna: so
Mesanna: I warned everyone
Mesanna: its already 20 seconds by the time the GM appears and speaks

Sadly what part of that statement doesn't say you may cheat as long as you are at your computer and can answer a GM within 20 seconds.

 

[MalagAste]

Sadly you are stating only part of what she said, here is the whole statement
Mesanna: in game and running multi characters
Mesanna: I told everyone that we can't really do much about multiboxing
Mesanna: but you better be in game if you run it
Mesanna: so
Mesanna: I warned everyone
Mesanna: its already 20 seconds by the time the GM appears and speaks

Sadly what part of that statement doesn't say you may cheat as long as you are at your computer and can answer a GM within 20 seconds.

Actually I think she said 5 seconds now... however I highly doubt they actually do anything...

 

[CovenantX]

Sadly you are stating only part of what she said, here is the whole statement
Mesanna: in game and running multi characters
Mesanna: I told everyone that we can't really do much about multiboxing
Mesanna: but you better be in game if you run it
Mesanna: so
Mesanna: I warned everyone
Mesanna: its already 20 seconds by the time the GM appears and speaks

Sadly what part of that statement doesn't say you may cheat as long as you are at your computer and can answer a GM within 20 seconds.

You assume it means "Cheating is Okay" because it doesn't specifically say that it's not...

"Mesanna: but you better be in game if you run it". Means: If you're running the game you better be there playing it. -What else could it mean?... looking at her following statements, it directly proves what I'm saying... the time limit in which you have to respond directly refers to you being at your computer to respond. It's left open, but no one has said it's okay to cheat.

There's also a difference between saying "We can't really do much about mutliboxing" and "We can't do anything about multiboxing".

 

[CovenantX]

Actually I think she said 5 seconds now... however I highly doubt they actually do anything...

She did say you have 5 seconds to respond to the GM,. that quote said "it already takes 20 seconds by the time the GM appears and speaks". no mention of 5 seconds in that quote... but that's not what the 20 second remark was referring to. Meaning you still have ~5 seconds After the GM appears and speaks to you.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Didn't Mesanna pretty much admit she used the "Mr. Slicey" (think about it) program during one of the M&Gs last year?

 

[Lord Arm]

so former devs added the feature to log in more than one account, not a big deal at first. I always thought it was illegal to auto heal your other chars. now they got the bard buffs. they also added u cant get credit for healing concerning drops. it seems this was made for multi boxing/clients use. the current devs have made this problem on a whole different level. not the former devs. get rid of the follow command. if u want to use more than one char, u need to control them not auto follow, heal ect... something needs to be done period. just my opinions

 

[Merus]

I'm sorry, but when the producer of UO says "there isn't much we can do, just make sure you're attended".... that IS saying as long as your at the keyboard they won't do anything. Just because they phrased it differently, it's the same thing as saying using scripts, so long as you are attended, is acceptable.

This is further evident in the changes they make to the game... do the action the cheaters? No. They change the game mechanics to make it more challenging to use the scripts, utterly screwing most of the honest, non-script using players.

At this point I don't condone or condemn... it just is what it is. My biggest issue seems to be that the Stratics board (or at least some of them) want to continue with their head in the sand because an old, out-dated, and openly unenforced TOS says something that doesn't match the reality of the game. People use 3rd party programs. The UO producer has accepted this and for all intents and purposes has given the green light to them so long as you are attended. It is time that we bring them out of the *wink and nod shadows* and just acknowledge reality and let players discuss them. Hopefully there are some behind the talks happening and this will change.

 

[Lord Frodo]

You assume it means "Cheating is Okay" because it doesn't specifically say that it's not...

"Mesanna: but you better be in game if you run it". Means: If you're running the game you better be there playing it. -What else could it mean?... looking at her following statements, it directly proves what I'm saying... the time limit in which you have to respond directly refers to you being at your computer to respond. It's left open, but no one has said it's okay to cheat.

There's also a difference between saying "We can't really do much about mutliboxing" and "We can't do anything about multiboxing".

Here, let me fix it for you.

Mesanna: I told everyone that we can't really do much about multiboxing but you better be in game if you run it

Sadly what part of that statement doesn't say you may multibox,which is cheating, as long as you are not AFK and you are right it was 5 sec

 

[drcossack]

Didn't Mesanna pretty much admit she used the "Mr. Slicey" (think about it) program during one of the M&Gs last year?

She did say that on LS in January of '16 (after some player complaints), and I'm sure @CovenantX remembers her saying it (as well as the program named), since he was there and all.

What I don't get, since Mesanna herself outright SAID that they can detect when people are using these programs/when they last used them, is why they don't actually DO anything about it.

 

[Lord Nabin]

Well if they can see all that from their side and you all are complaining constantly about the rampant cheating, this and that.

Maybe we should consider that the vast majority are involved in some level of use of a third party program.

To wipe it out well...

Look I get multiplying is an issue. But really what I am hearing is. There are to many people for.me to get a chance at a drop. There are to many off sharderst coming in for me to get a chance at a drop. If you had full shards you'd be saying the same thing.

Like hungry said there are so many things to do and enjoy. Go play

 

[DJAd]

But really what I am hearing is. There are to many people for.me to get a chance at a drop. There are to many off sharderst coming in for me to get a chance at a drop. If you had full shards you'd be saying the same thing.

I would tend to agree with this but I think the actual point / question is why do they have TOS but then don't bother to enforce them.

 

[petemage]

WTF is this new 5 second rule ********. I set up a completely legal, in game repeating macro to attack miasma, and went to change the laundry over. I come back to a GM asking me to "please respond" in the bucs jail. I'm like, umm yeah I'm here, send me back to where I was before the corpses rot...

Seriously, if you cannot tell the difference between a bot, and someone who set up a macro that your client allows then grow a brain.

If they wanted to find bots they VERY EASILY could with a couple sql queries... assuming the game isn't still saving to proprietary flat files....

Yea, right. They working so hard on driving legit people off. 5 seconds ffs.

 

[Lord Nabin]

I would tend to agree with this but I think the actual point / question is why do they have TOS but then don't bother to enforce them.

It's a fair question

 

[Lord Nabin]

Yea, right. They working so hard on driving legit people off. 5 seconds ffs.

I would say

Define a "Legit" Player....

That is a broad stroke and vauge

Are any of these legit?

Player logs in once every couple months to just peak in but still pays their subscription to keep there house and belongings in case they return more full time play later.

Player has several accounts pays his primary subscription monthly and all their house holder accounts every three months.

Player uses UOAssist to help out their game play.

Player returns to the game after several years off and finds that to equip and train up it takes a few million in gold so buys some gold from a trade site.

Player figures out that the EC Macros are pretty nice and spends hours testing and programming them to do routine chores and combat maneuvers. Then puts them into action generating millions.

Guild uses a third party map to coordinate their positions and a teamspeak server to make it easier to communicate.

Player decides he wants to become a merchant so they travel shard to shard buying low and selling high over and over again. Never once involving themselves in PVM or PVP. They also have one heck of a deco'd house.

Player loves UO and is online almost 24/7 pays their monthly subscription, runs a guild, buys the Guild a castle through RMT to support the guild growth and create a new RP element for the group.

I mean really the list could go on and on and on.

As far as I am concerned if you pay a subscription and log in to engage. You are a legit player.

 

[CovenantX]

Didn't Mesanna pretty much admit she used the "Mr. Slicey" (think about it) program during one of the M&Gs last year?

That was an unscheduled meeting that had to do with the governor's at the time.

I'm not sure exactly how the conversation got to this point, but we got to talking about how many people were "Clean" (meaning everyone there (~10-12 people) that haven't used any "Illegal Programs"), she said "Wow, more than I thought", 2 people were clean.... she told me that I personally, haven't used ****uo since 2008. which is very likely true.

I then told her that I use **loop to macro skills etc... she responded "I use it too", which I thought was interesting to say the least... a program that can play a macro on a set timer repeatedly.

Someone else that was at the meeting, said they were currently using **St**m.
I believe that particular person has quit playing UO for the time being. but some people that knew who they were, said that they were banned. This was quite a while after said meeting occurred.
so whatever happened, was not a direct result of what they had said in the meeting.

Just because the Producer/Devs don't know how to handle this situation doesn't mean it's "Okay to Cheat" and take advantage of it.
Everyone here (or most of us, myself included at one point or another) think that they're avoiding the situation by not banning the offenders. possibly due to how much money could potentially be lost as a result -We don't know if that's really what the problem is.

One could speculate that with the in-game store perhaps being successful enough, and the future plans on possibly having a free-to-play model, they'd be able to afford the loss of those "cheaters".
again, this is just speculation there's no way to know what goes on there unless they tell us.

In what they have said in the last few years regarding similar issues is very vague and it's Very open to assumptions.

 

[CovenantX]

What I don't get, since Mesanna herself outright SAID that they can detect when people are using these programs/when they last used them, is why they don't actually DO anything about it.

This is likely why everyone's thinking that it's either:

A) A lie.
B) They cannot afford to lose those subscription payments.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

There was a post somewhere recently (might have got deleted) a player was doing laundry or something and came back to find themselves jailed by a GM. I don't think they we're multi-boxing. But they are out there watching. Policing all the shards has to be a tough job but they're out there, they're acting, be on your toes

 

[OREOGL]

WTF is this new 5 second rule ********. I set up a completely legal, in game repeating macro to attack miasma, and went to change the laundry over. I come back to a GM asking me to "please respond" in the bucs jail. I'm like, umm yeah I'm here, send me back to where I was before the corpses rot...

Seriously, if you cannot tell the difference between a bot, and someone who set up a macro that your client allows then grow a brain.

If they wanted to find bots they VERY EASILY could with a couple sql queries... assuming the game isn't still saving to proprietary flat files....

I doubt this was a random check, someone probably paged on you.

But hey, I could be wrong.

Though last time I got swiped for training on a spider I got up to snag a sandwich and when I came back I was in jail.

Later found it some wiener paged on me despite having been talking in chat not too long beforehand.

I'm just waiting for the post that someone blames you from moving even an inch away from your keyboard.

You cheater!

 

[funkymonkey]

This whole thread is a huge fail.

People are up in arms with people cheating and somehow think that the devs have any control over doing anything about it.
And yet people blame fel for cheats, tram has been and will be forever the main reason for cheating.

Of course let's not forget there is a good few people in this thread that make there income off UO by selling gold and support this very site with said money.

But of course this doesn't matter right ?

But it's no secret this has been going on for years and it cant, won't change

 

[Lord Frodo]

Just because the Producer/Devs don't know how to handle this situation doesn't mean it's "Okay to Cheat" and take advantage of it.

What do you mean they do not know how to handle it, what part of if you break the ToS your account gets banned is so hard to understand. The Producer is looking the other way and refuses to do anything about it, plain and simple. There is no gray area here, it is black and white, yes or no. Please stop trying to spin this like UO hasn't a clue how to stop cheating.

 

[CovenantX]

What do you mean they do not know how to handle it, what part of if you break the ToS your account gets banned is so hard to understand. The Producer is looking the other way and refuses to do anything about it, plain and simple. There is no gray area here, it is black and white, yes or no. Please stop trying to spin this like UO hasn't a clue how to stop cheating.

... when you can prove, they said "It's Okay to cheat" do it.

You and many others are spinning it by saying "Cheating is Okay" because they've not said it in a way that it's perfectly clear (other than in the ToS (lol?)) I guess that's not enough....
So, No it's not ok to cheat, but they may not beable to "ban" everyone that is cheating because it could potentially cost them their jobs? yea, that's a gray area bud...

There is NO gaming company that can stop Cheating... it is not possible.

 

[MalagAste]

... when you can prove, they said "It's Okay to cheat" do it.

You and many others are spinning it by saying "Cheating is Okay" because they've not said it in a way that it's perfectly clear (other than in the ToS (lol?)) I guess that's not enough....
So, No it's not ok to cheat, but they may not beable to "ban" everyone that is cheating because it could potentially cost them their jobs? yea, that's a gray area bud...

There is NO gaming company that can stop Cheating... it is not possible.

No but it'd be nice to be playing one that actually TRIES... and stops punishing those that actually play the game and start punishing those that bot it.

And that includes those that use illegal means to run several bots with only ONE actually played account... where the others are all mimics...

 

[CovenantX]

No but it'd be nice to be playing one that actually TRIES... and stops punishing those that actually play the game and start punishing those that bot it.

And that includes those that use illegal means to run several bots with only ONE actually played account... where the others are all mimics...

Right, I don't disagree with it at all. It's just interesting when people accuse me of "spinning the argument" when they themselves have already done so.

There's no way in hell the Devs would allow this kind of stuff to go on intentionally unless they had no proof of it being done via "illegal program" Or without potentially devastating repercussion if they take action.

That being said, they could suspend people IF they know for sure whatever is being done is done illegally. Technically, just by logging in, those accounts have already been "paid" so, the loss of money comes with future purchases to those account holders. -This is going to be much more of a problem when/IF they game goes free-to-play. because the loss of a free account is just a time investment.

Suspending in the short term will not take the account away from the player, just temporarily disable it. but in the long term said player might realize if they're unable (or unwilling to learn) to play multiple accounts without any "illegal programs" and decide there's little reason for them to hold onto multiple accounts.

 

[petemage]

[...]As far as I am concerned if you pay a subscription and log in to engage. You are a legit player.

Right, it's completely subjective. But as far as my understanding goes, someone farming Blackthorns 24/7 afk with 10+ for example is not considered a legit player. Despite him logging them all in and paying for them

I also fail to see those getting punished. But they don't hesitate to punish a single guy beating Miasma on an ingame macro *shrugs*

 

[Lord Frodo]

... when you can prove, they said "It's Okay to cheat" do it.

You and many others are spinning it by saying "Cheating is Okay" because they've not said it in a way that it's perfectly clear (other than in the ToS (lol?)) I guess that's not enough....
So, No it's not ok to cheat, but they may not beable to "ban" everyone that is cheating because it could potentially cost them their jobs? yea, that's a gray area bud...

There is NO gaming company that can stop Cheating... it is not possible.

Please take that statement she made and take it to your local english teacher and let them tell you she made a statement with a qualifying statement. IE If you are going to multibox (statement) then you must be at your computer. (qualifying statement to address the conditions that makes it ok) What is so hard for you to understand or is this so simple that it is way over your head.

 

[CovenantX]

Please take that statement she made and take it to your local english teacher and let them tell you she made a statement with a qualifying statement. IE If you are going to multibox (statement) then you must be at your computer. (qualifying statement to address the conditions that makes it ok) What is so hard for you to understand or is this so simple that it is way over your head.

There's something wrong with this guy...

Sadly you are stating only part of what she said, here is the whole statement
Mesanna: in game and running multi characters
Mesanna: I told everyone that we can't really do much about multiboxing
Mesanna: but you better be in game if you run it
Mesanna: so
Mesanna: I warned everyone
Mesanna: its already 20 seconds by the time the GM appears and speaks

Sadly what part of that statement doesn't say you may cheat as long as you are at your computer and can answer a GM within 20 seconds.

She doesn't say it's legal nor does she say it's illegal (the RoC says it is illegal)... Perhaps you understood what I said this time?

Your high-horse seems to be very short. Do you have "Trump hands" too by chance?

 

[skett]

I'll admit I have cheated before.
I use to every once in awhile use that vendor search site.
To ban me for that would piss me off lol.
Someone above talked about that map program that can see other players locations not sure why that's a cheat either ?
I do sometimes run two clients when house deco-ing and storing items I guess I'm still cheating.
One time had to log into anther account to res a charter on a different account, is that cheating?

Some peoples idea of cheating is over the top

Hell im glad we have scpiters I don't have to mine ingots for leather and wood for months, I have about 5 hours a week at best to play this difficult grind game.

 

[Laura_Gold]

At the most recent Baja meet & greet, Bleak gave every appearance of being AFK for minutes on end. He did not get jailed (that I know of). Y' might want to rethink the five second rule, Mesanna.

 

[The Craftsman]

As far as I am concerned if you pay a subscription and log in to engage. You are a legit player.

As far as I am concerned if you blatantly use illegal third party programs, cheats and hacks, regardless or whether you pay a subscription or not, then you are a cheat, not a legit player.

 

[Lord Nabin]

As far as I am concerned if you blatantly use illegal third party programs, cheats and hacks, regardless or whether you pay a subscription or not, then you are a cheat, not a legit player.

The question posed was what do you consider a legit player to be?

 

[The Craftsman]

The question posed was what do you consider a legit player to be?

Someone who doesnt script, hack, cheat, multibox etc. Your only criteria to be legit, is to pay and log in.

 

[BrianFreud]

WTF is this new 5 second rule ********. I set up a completely legal, in game repeating macro to attack miasma, and went to change the laundry over. I come back to a GM asking me to "please respond" in the bucs jail. I'm like, umm yeah I'm here, send me back to where I was before the corpses rot...

Seriously, if you cannot tell the difference between a bot, and someone who set up a macro that your client allows then grow a brain.

If they wanted to find bots they VERY EASILY could with a couple sql queries... assuming the game isn't still saving to proprietary flat files....

That is kind of the definition of running a macro while not at the computer...

 

[grimiz]

That is kind of the definition of running a macro while not at the computer...

Did I ever say it wasn't running a macro while not at the computer? No. No I did not.

Then they need to take out the "macro" functionality that is inherent in the client, don't they????? It's not like it's looting anything off the corpse for me.

Hi, here's a tool kit to make your life less repetitive and mind bleeding. Oh, btw. DO NOT USE THIS FOR ITS INTENDED PURPOSE.

Sorry Brian, but some people have lives where they need to leave their keyboard for a few minutes at a time, and the game puts up barriers to exit that to prevent you from doing this in any reasonable amount of time.

 

[Uriah Heep]

At this point in this game's life, what difference does it make if someone is UM'ing? How bout we throw all that energy into identifying bugs and fixing problems and having the GMs show up hidden at EM events and police the crowd, etc etc.

To be honest, if you spent the next year UM'ing, I dont see how that would affect my life in any way LOL

 

[MalagAste]

I guess for me personally if someone macro's attended or not something like skill gains... what difference does that make to me??? It's not like they are hurting anyone.

Where I get offended is by people macroing attended or NOT is where they are doing it for profit. Such as Blackthrons where they are getting drop after drop and selling them or the arties... and this would include script bot miners and lumberjacking and such... or where they are using it to gain advantage over other players who aren't macroing... like multi-boxing... which unless EVERYONE is given this ability... then NO ONE should be doing it as it gives unfair advantage and IMO takes away from average players being able to compete. And people can complain about the price of ingots/lumber all day but honestly this used to be THE way to make gold as a newb... I remember selling tons of ingots and lumber.

That's my .02 cents.