Deeding pets

[[JD]]

I really wish they would let us deed pets. It would let us turn our skill into a commodity. We could put swampies up for sale on our vendor, along with exceptional deeds. Or for bush guys we could put lesser hiryu. For miners we could go get fire beetles. We could put elite tamer pets like 4.0+ Cu and GD up for sale. We could even train them first to sell for a better profit.

To avoid letting someone deed pets to pet hoard and exceed set pet limits, they could make the deed take a stable slot.

It would give tamers a good reason to go 120 Taming, Lore, Vet for more than just the title - for the extra stable slots so they could have more variety of pets to sell.

 

[jeza]

If the deed took a stable slot, I don't see the point.
You can always have a book on your vendor listing the pets you're selling with you ICQ number so the buyer can contact you.

The problem, in my opinion, is that I can't have more than one or two pets for sale at the same time because all the other stable slots are used by my "fighting pets".

Or you are thinking about having a "merchant tamer" who only tames pets to sell.

But I agree with the deeding pets Idea, maybe having a limit on the number of pets you can deed, like never more than 10 or so deeded at the same time. Or the number could depend on your taming/lore and vet skills same than for the stable slots.

 

[gortman]

I like the general idea a lot, although I wonder if the possible repercussions are too messy for the developers to consider it.

1) If the deeds were not tied to stable spots, tamers could have an essentially limitless stable. The tamer would be able to store pets they're not currently using in deed form on the vendor, and swap out deeded pets with stabled ones if they ever wanted to use them in the future. Of course those deeded pets might be sold and thus lost, but the possibility is still there. If the deeds were tied to the tamer's stable slots, that would reduce the number of "useable" stable slots. Not sure if that's an issue or not for every tamer.

2) It would make it much easier to transfer pets between tamers on the same account, unless some kind of safeguard was put in place. Tamer A on account #1 puts the pet deed on the vendor, selling for 1 gp, then quickly logs in with Tamer B on account #1 to buy the pet and voila...transfer complete.

Your post made me think of an alternative idea - tweaking the current zoo donation program. Pets donated to the zoo would be available for purchase at the zoo through an NPC. Potential buyers would be able to look through the list of donated pets, view their stats & skills, and choose the one they wanted (assuming they had the required taming/lore to control). They would pay with gold (not sure how a pet's price would be set, but some sliding scale based on type of pet and its skills/stats) and once the purchase was complete, the pet's donator would receive either donation points or some percentage of the gold used to buy the pet from the zoo. For this to work, I think the zoo would have to expand the list of animals that could be donated to include all the pets typically used by tamers. The new program would give tamers a way to "sell" pets and might also help revive the zoos on lower population shards.

 

[[JD]]

Linking the deed to stable slot was a possible solution to exploits arising from being able to deed pets. Such as having unlimited pets.

The point of deeding though is to allow tamers to more easily sell pets to other players so that they may use their trade to earn a living. I would love to be able to do that.

I have done the ICQ on a book thing but not everyone has or uses IM, and peopel are lazy. The easiest thing to do is to have a deed right on a vendor where they can buy it, like other items. Smiths, imbuers, tailors, and other crafts people get to sell their wares on a vendor. We should also.

I don't like the idea of donated pets being sold through an NPC. That doesn't do anything for player tamers.

Selling pets while deeds are linked to stable slots could be changed to some other idea if you thought of a good one. It wouldn't reduce my ability to house pets as I don't even have 120/120/120 to begin with. I only have 120/110/100. It would sure give me a reason to go 120/120/120, however.

Housing pets shouldn't be a problem anyway, with soulstones you can move the skills between mule tamer characters, transfer/re-tame pets, and then stone the skills away. Essentially your entire account could be full of pets and you only have to have one real tamer. The rest are for storage.

 

[jeza]

To Gortman :

Your idea of using the zoo to sell pets is original and looks like it could be fun but I see one major problem : It's bad for business.

If all the pets are in the same place, it's easier for the buyer to compare, it's bad business for the seller if it's pet is not a very good one.

I don't know a lot of sellers that would agree not being able to set the price themselves.And it's not necessarily good for the buyer, maybe they could have found a seller with better prices. Nobody would ever agree on a way to set the prices.And colored pets would be sold at the same price than a non colored one with same stats.

The seller will want to get money, not points for a reward they may not need or be able to sell at a good price. And they wont be very happy to have to give a percentage to the zoo.

Again if you can't deed the pet,why not just list the pets you're selling on a book on your vendor, with color and stats ?

And regarding your concerns about deeding pets without linking it to stable lots :

The risk about having infinite stable slots ? Not really. Not only you can limit the number of pets you can deed at the same time, but you can either break the bond when the pet is deeded.
So when the owner undeeds the pet it's unbonded again and he has to wait 1 week before he can use it or risk to loose it if it dies.

You can always find a friend/guildmate/tamer on your secondary account to transfer a pet from one tamer to another on a same account. And really, where is the problem ? Once transferred it's not bonded so it's not like you could really share the pets between tamers like you do skills with soulstones.
And even if you could, do you think it would be bad for the game ?

JD :
I wrote this before you posted your answer, I see we have the same opinion for the most part

 

[gortman]

I did a search on the idea of pet vendors/deeding pets; this is not the first time it's been discussed:

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=133175

 

[MadTexan]

deeding pets sounds like a good way to circumvent the rules in place that prevent a pet from being called to certain locations and certain dungeons. I understand that is not your reason for wanting the deeds, but that would be its main use if implemented

 

[jeza]

not if the deeds had the same restrictions than the balls of pet summoning

As this code already exists it's not even complicate or expensive to do.

To avoid tamers having unlimited pet storage, make that deeding the pet breaks the bond, so if the tamer wants it back he has to wait a week before the pet is useful again.
And maybe make that you can only create a deed in a vendor backpack and add a limit at the number of pet deeds that the vendor can have at the same time.

It would be better if instead of a deed it was a little statue with the real color of the pet and that this statue displays the stats, resists and skills of the pet.


But I don't think we'll see this any time soon if ever. The devs don't even answer to easier requests, like adding the missing pets to the zoo donation system ...

 

[Largan]

Maybe the character that makes the Pet Deed can't use it after it's done. That way it wouldn't be possible for a tamer to store pets on deeds to exceed stable slots. Don't know if there is a code that would work for that at the moment though. Maybe some sort of a reversed account bound feature. Just a thought.

To prevent people from using it to get pets to certain dungeons and locations it could only be possible to use the deed at a stable. Maybe even make it so that the pet is automatically put in stable when the deed is used. That way it wouldn't make it possible to exceed the stable slots as a buyer.

I think this would be an awesome feature if it was implemented. Would give another dimension to playing a tamer and another, and easier, way to make money.

 

[gortman]

To prevent people from using it to get pets to certain dungeons and locations it could only be possible to use the deed at a stable. Maybe even make it so that the pet is automatically put in stable when the deed is used. That way it wouldn't make it possible to exceed the stable slots as a buyer.

Largan, just to expand on your thought here, the conversion of a pet deed to a real pet could work something like a soulstone token. As I'm sure most of you know, when you redeem a soulstone token, the soulstone itself is placed in your bank box. Similarly, when you redeemed a pet deed, the pet could be automatically added to your stable (assuming there was room) OR placed in your bank box in statuette form (again, assuming there was room). The basic code for that obviously exists already.

 

[[JD]]

I think this would be an awesome feature if it was implemented. Would give another dimension to playing a tamer and another, and easier, way to make money.

Exactly... some people just enjoy taming. This would give them a way to play their character the way they like without having to resort to "Farming". Personally i would like to be known for exceptional pets, trained to max. I think it would be neat to be the name that someone knows they should go to when they want a really superb pet.

Max, the possibility of an exploit should never be a reason to not implement an idea. That's what bugchecks and anti exploit code is for. If they didn't implement things because it would be exploited the game would not have any features whatsoever as there have been plenty of exploits and bugs over time. lol!

I would be ok with any restrictions for them to make this happen. Breaking the bond, limiting the # you can have, etc...

Yeah it's probably just wishful thinking as the devs no longer communicate with the user base. They just want their $12.99 a month and want us to shut up. Gone are the days they would interact with us and be excited over ideas. Oh how things change as a game matures.

 

[uoBuoY]

I've always been in favor of pet deeds. But I have to ask: why is everyone against Tamers using deeds to store/have more pets? How would that hurt the game?

 

[jeza]

I have to say that I never saw the problem with that either.
Why not have as many stable slot as we want, or at least enough that it seems so ? It's not as if we could use all our pets at the same time.

And that would make things easier for tamers who want to tame for themselves and to sell.

After all an archer can have a huge amount of arcs if he wants, same with a mage and spellbooks. And they can carry more than one at the same time.

Now I have to admit that I didn't think about it a lot so maybe I missed a point ...

 

[Wenchkin]

I would prefer that we started off with more stable slots and then if the devs have time to code in deeds I guess the convenience would be there if tamers want it. I could see the attraction in being able to put a blaze cu on a vendor rather than require a broker to carry the checks, but at the same time I wouldn't put something that valuable in a deed. It's UO, more bugs than a termite colony and all that

I don't think pets on vendors would actually be that good for tamers as a whole though. Think of pets becoming like all the other less common items sold in UO. Stacked high in Luna by resellers with a lot of crappy ones to sort through. You'd really want folks buying pets that way too? Or sellers competing to get a spot in Luna for pets? I know there are inconveniences when a customer wants a pet when folks aren't online, but I'd hate buying pets on vendors. And pets are something a customer often has questions about, or doesn't understand the skills they need to have etc. I think face to face trading is actually the best way to sell a pet at least in UO.

If you do want to sell pets through a shop though, just make up books with the details of your pets for sale and your contact details. Post on trade forums and you soon find requests come in alongside sales which I prefer anyway. I know I'll get the pet sold quickly when it's been ordered

Wenchy

 

[Barry Gibb]

We could put swampies up for sale on our vendor, along with exceptional deeds. Or for bush guys we could put lesser hiryu. For miners we could go get fire beetles.

Use one of you other character's stable slots to store pets like swamp dragons, fire beetles, and lesser hiryus. Each character (on SA entitled accounts) now has 4 stable slots to use at zero skill. This will allow you to store the pets for future sales and use your tamer's stable for more dangerous beasts. Another alternative is to see if any of your friends/guildmates have stable slots to spare for storage. Use their stables for pets that are in less demand, so you can plan ahead for retrieval.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Barry Gibb]

I don't think pets on vendors would actually be that good for tamers as a whole though. Think of pets becoming like all the other less common items sold in UO. Stacked high in Luna by resellers with a lot of crappy ones to sort through. You'd really want folks buying pets that way too? Or sellers competing to get a spot in Luna for pets? I know there are inconveniences when a customer wants a pet when folks aren't online, but I'd hate buying pets on vendors. And pets are something a customer often has questions about, or doesn't understand the skills they need to have etc. I think face to face trading is actually the best way to sell a pet at least in UO.

Spot On Wenchkin! Face-to-face is the best way to sell a pet. My customers are very greatul for the help I give them post sale. Most of the time, when a player buys a pet they are unaware of its strengths and weaknesses. They often do not know how to train pets well, or in more than one manner. This is a good way to make friends in the game and find others to hunt with.

My rune beetle took a swing at me when I asked it if it wanted to go into a deed. I don't think he likes the idea either. He calmed down when I gave him his lemon.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[gortman]

Wenchy and Barry make good points. Their posts sparked an idea in my tiny brain that might work, but I haven't had time to think through the possible repercussions.

Instead of vendor-based pet deeds, how about adding pet selling (or at least advertising) through the stables? To keep it simple, let's say this would only be used for advertising. Here's how it might work:

1) Add an option to the "claim list" gump, and/or add a new stablemaster-recognized command, that would allow a tamer to advertise their pet for sale. Once in this state, the pet would be added to a master list - categorized by pet type - that was accessible at any NPC stable. Sam the Tamer would be able to add a short comment about his for-sale pet (e.g., "0.8 GD, great for mongbat farming! Contact me at ICQ XXX").

2) For prospective buyers, add an option to the stablemaster gump (the one that includes buy, sell, train animal taming, etc.) and a new stablemaster-recognized command called "view advertised pets" or something similar.

3) Prospective pet buyer Gladys, on the lookout for a 5-slot pet to hunt mongbats with, would go to any NPC stable, activate the "view advertised pets" function, and be presented with a categorized list of all pets for sale on the shard. Gladys could drill down into the greater dragon list, select Sam's GD, and view the GD's lore gump as well as Sam's comment about the GD. I have to tell you, Gladys is VERY excited about Sam's GD!

4) If Gladys wanted to purchase Sam's GD, there could be an "I'm interested" toggle on the gump that would allow Gladys to leave her contact info so Sam could get in touch with her. Not sure what would work best here, but in any case there would be some mechanism that would allow Sam and Gladys to connect and discuss the potential sale.

5) Sam and Gladys make contact, meet at WBB (they both fondly remember the old days), and complete the transaction. Sam is happy to free up a stable slot and Gladys can hardly wait to start farming mongbats with her new pet!

A system like this might address the two big issues here: helping tamers advertise pets they want to sell while also ensuring that sales will still happen the old fashioned way: face to face. Maybe it's too complicated - if so, I'm guessing veteran tamers out there will come up with something more workable.

Thanks for listening!

 

[[JD]]

Pets being on deeds doesn't preclude customers from contacting you for pet care, tips, etc. I don't see that as a reason not to make some sort of system available for us to advertise and sell our pets easier.

I don't have a lot of time in game so some way to advertise, make them searchable, and sell the pets without having to endlessly spam at the bank for hours would be really nice. Deeding seemed like a perfect option to me.

The funny thing about tamers is we all do things so differently there is no way we will ever all agree. So we will never be able to present a united front/request.

Regarding stables, I don't know why UO chose to limit the # of pets. But it seemed easier to design something within those limits rather than challenge it.. which would be a whole other can of worms, and fodder for the tamer-haters...

 

[Wenchkin]

Oh I'm not against it as a convenience, I just would rather have more stable space because I'm not keen on vendors full of pets - or rather I don't think it would be as good for the selling tamers as we'd hope. It'd be great if it was good for us, I'd be all for it, but y'know what Luna merchants are like - resellers r us etc I think you'd end up in a crowded market place with pets just lying around on vendors. And vendors aren't easy to search It's one of those ideas that could be made to work, and would be cool, but I think it'd take serious effort from the devs to ensure it worked just right. A half baked effort would be worse than no deeds at all IMHO.

For advertising, I tend to advertise on forums rather than in game, and I keep a note in my char profile that I sell pets. My patience for bank sitting runs to about 2 minutes lol.

Wenchy

 

[Demoquin84]

On a free server that is no longer. They had "pet deeds" they looked like the picture when transferring. They weighed 25 lbs regardless of animal.

You can have unlimited amounts of these deeds but can only use your slot amount.

They used "shrink potions" to shrink into deed form. Which can be crafted with i think 80 or 90 alchemy.

People would sell deeds on vendors and what not. It was nice to have options available without having to tame them in the first place. People dont need taming skills to have a deed but ... do when converted.


There was pet contracts on the server which was a real reason why i stayed but have no idea to implement it