Dear Mr. Pink ......

[Ruffles]

actually ruffie glad you are serious enough to keep replying and enough to throw out lies. At least one harry that i know in fact cop had to call in pas to xfire on us. maybe thats the harry you are talking about.

War Ultima...I very much resent you calling me a liar. That, sir, is a personal attack. What I described is what I saw and participated in. Perhaps you had a different perspective than I did, but I know what I saw. If you disagree with me please state why you disagree but do NOT repeatedly call me a liar. You do NOT know me or my personal values. Thank you.

As for the Harry I am referring to, I know for a fact there were only a mere handful of us...5 or 6 at the most. I was in our vent so, I think I am better qualified to determine the numbers. We knew we weren't going to be able to take your Harry but were laughing are arses off running you hither and yon. I also know that at some point PAS joined in, and started attacking the Harry with dragons...What conclusion would you draw based in what I saw? Or perhaps you are talking about a Harry where I wasn't present? After all you did claim to do quite a few.

War Ultima,no where did I say that COP chased out SCAM. Please go back and reread the post. It would help if you could actually set aside your vitrolic attitude and not read into my post things that are NOT there. Let me ask you this? Why would COP even want to chase away people that want to PVP? Those that give us a challenge are welcome. It is FUN being challenged! This is not just my attitude but the attitude of most of COP We LIKE, no LOVE, to have a good fight.

Let me give you a great example:
There was a raid on the turtle spawn, unfortunately, I didn’t even log on until just after the blues and SL and TB and M had taken it and completed it. I was able to get there for the aftermath and went about pulling up health bars of the "enemies". I hit the limit of health bars within 2 min. I know its pretty hard for some of you to count but there were far more of you than the dozen people in vent. However! Cudos to all of you that came out and raided! It WAS fun even though the only dismounting I could do was during the exodus out or Del. I was sorry I missed the beginning. With all the excitement in vent when I finally was able to get on UO, it sounded like it was great fun. We love to win, everyone does. But a great fight is also what makes playing UO fun.

Ok, so we like to kill people...that is what PvP'ers do...but we don't get our panties in a twist and post personal attacks against those we PVP against. *Hint Hint*

For Sickshine:
As for PAS having PVP'ers in different PVP guilds, It is the reason my husband and I broke alliance with them. I think it is very important to be loyal to the guild you are with. As far as you rallying the PAS to PVP. I salute you, sir. I honestly hope that we see some more PAS at the gate and in spawns. You have many fine people in PAS. As far as some PAS people being in COP...who? Give examples...otherwise your comment holds no credibility.

My name is Ruffles...not Ruffie. Thank you

 

[WarUltima]

I am sorry if you werent purposely trying to lie about things. In your comments of Scam calling PAS in, unfortunetely you got it the opposite way around. You seem to be so certain about everything you saw or you "think". Perhaps looking for the truth first next time?? =)

Even a PAS guy had to came out and questioning about why all the BS he heard. Btw Sick isnt the first guy to prove it. I believe it was Freya who said they got there due to a COP gating from Luna. Do you read my post? I said our guildie yelled "PAS is NINJAING..." which also is another indication of us being crossfired by COP and PAS. And you said you saw PAS hitting harry which also proved my post that we didnt leave anyone there to watch it. We had to use pure faction team to figh off your Blue + Red + Bluebie mix team which post an absolute advantage agreed by everyone (thus DEV said it's a bug and will be fixed). We had to focus on not to die and get stated while those you that we killed over and over and over dont get stated. Thats why PAS had a chance of sneaking in with 3 dragons with handful of blues fielding.

Sorry I called you a liar if you are just describing what you "saw" without seeking for any truth behind the lies. So it sems like we've came to an agreement... Scam were getting hammered by COP AND PAS AND everyone else that were there. COP gating from Luna means COP seeked for help from other players/guilds/trammies, not SCAM... again bitter but its the truth I am so sorry.

Oh btw I completely know what you are talking about. I frequently hit my "HP Bar limit" even when I am fighting at yew gate (I only grab COP bars)... and many times we ping your vent you had 25 out of 25 in vent (which is the max player allowed limit for our vent and we have never ever not even once to achieve that goal).

Good Job Ruffles, glad you get to know a bit more about the truth behind the curtains.

Now you can change the "false" statement of yours to the "truth"... "at least one Harry, COP had to call in help from everyone that was in Luna"

 

[WarUltima]

Btw Ruffles in case you dont know which you might want to... Scam has a character in COP's faction guild and as of today he's still in it. Take a break and find out who he's char is ^^.

Good luck.

That's why we know what goes on in your vent. You know the whole KM rarely speaks but when he does he seems to be pretty cool and tried to help out you guys... and TMI whines a lot ect ect.

 

[Ruffles]

When someone post rants, it comes across as lacking objectivity and for me, at least, loses credibility. Now, I realize that during heated discussions, that some people get a bit carried away and cannot control what they think let alone what they type. But, this course of action is conterproductive to having a decent dialog and being able to keep this PvP discussion going.

War Ultima, I am sure that you feel perfectly justified in your posts. I am sorry, but because of how you come across, I am having diffulty in finding them credible. Lets agree to disagree on the things we do not agree. Okay?

Let's try to come to a concenses of some of the things we DO agree about?
One, I refuse to comment on the experiences of others...If I was not there then I cannot share the experiences and no amount of ranting on them will change my mind, just as I can agree that you will never concede to things I can see but you cannot.

Lets start with premise that COP is a Zerg.
"Zerg: Definition: A zerg is a large group of players who rely on their sheer numbers, rather than their superior game skills, to win. It goes without saying that if you are seriously outnumbered in an online battle, you are almost sure to lose no matter how valiantly you fight. In these cases you always have the comfort of knowing that you were zerged by the enemy. The term comes from the game StarCraft, where it is one of the game's playable races. In StarCraft the Zerg is an alien race that uses swarms of weak, quickly produced, low cost units to overwhelm the opposition." If you want to know my reference please PM me, I am not sure I am allowed to post a link to another websire.

Well, COP certainly has a large amount of numbers that is true. However another qualification is that we rely on them rather than superior game skills to win. I can assure you that most in our guild have superior game skills. I can recall quite a few times that even a handful of COP, can effectively annilate a substantially larger group of people. Because of their superior skills would this nullify COP being a ZERG? Or are you suggesting that UO has a different definition of Zerg?

As for the SCAM person being in COP please once again, prove it...give a name..even if you have to PM me. Otherwise, if you are going to base your statements on rumor without proof...then you have no credibility with me.

Ruffles

 

[WarUltima]

It amuses me that you are talking about "credibility" afterall you are the one who post something you are "sure" yet got denied by one of the party in question. Now that you said scam calls on pas for help and two pas (we kill them so much that we will never be friends) has spoke up and said that you and your guildies are spiting out false accusation.

I strongly feel offended that you used such an accusation to humuliate my guild which is known for hardcore gamers who refuse to recruit someone without acceptable skill let along "calling for help". You already lost your credibility when you said scam calls for help thus you are probably the last personal who should talk about credibility. I am so sorry, even if you were just in dire to protect your guild you made a false accusation AND was denied by one of the neutual parties in question.

Good job trying to redirect the topic after being informed by the truth that you refuse to believe. Which is perfectly fine because we are all humans. You know like how someone claims to the teh god of pvp even tho no one but him believes in it. Same can be sure for PAS making an attempt at the harry while scam was occupied by cops. The truth is PAS wasnt called in by scam and they might not be called in by cop in luna however cop and pas had a common goal then, taking scam's harry. Both cop and pas attacked scam... and unfortunately for you its a truth you "choose" to not believe in. And only one that said scam called pas is in cop, not scam not even pas and I wonder why.

You can choose to believe if theres a scam in cop why would we resign him? Even tho the owner of the character is not active (in darkfall) but its not worth it losing your vent info for some of the amazing insider info right? Choose to believe what you want or spend your entire uo life in lies not my business. Talking about credibility after stating a proven false accusation to belittle or humuliate my guild is a form of personal attack to me. I censerily beg you to post false accusation about me or my relatives. Its personal attack. Thank you.

 

[UO's Old.]

I will have to say even though it's at the disadvantage of COP, having a spy in their guild for vent reasons is sad. Want to speak of loyalty, keep your members within your guild, and beat them honestly, that's a sign of not having tactics, or maybe even cowardice in some cases.

Seriously, I wouldn't find fighting any guild or person fun if I had a disloyal guy in my guild who claimed loyalty in the enemy's guild for spy purposes, in no way shape or form is that remotely fun to know all your opponents moves on the field.

 

[Sickshine]

Ruffles I am not going to tell you who has characters in both PAS and cop. It would be both rude and malicious to "out" these people. PAS allows people to play with other guilds that might offer them a different aspect of the game (so long as certain rules and proper etiquette are followed). If cop leadership or you have a problem with your members being in PAS you should take care of that yourself.

 

[Quenchant]

Truth is a perception or better yet an opinion. Certain things we may see, we may not remember. Others would see different things in the same battle than I might notice. No one will see the whole picture and know the whole story.

If I say the leaves on my oak tree are blue....
am I lying or am I just color blind and saying how I see things.

Enough with the "Your a Liar" talk.

Q

 

[WarUltima]

I will have to say even though it's at the disadvantage of COP, having a spy in their guild for vent reasons is sad. Want to speak of loyalty, keep your members within your guild, and beat them honestly, that's a sign of not having tactics, or maybe even cowardice in some cases.

Seriously, I wouldn't find fighting any guild or person fun if I had a disloyal guy in my guild who claimed loyalty in the enemy's guild for spy purposes, in no way shape or form is that remotely fun to know all your opponents moves on the field.

Its called keep your friends close enemies closer. Like how they created SL char on their point farming accounts and voted themselves as SL leader and set the tithing rate to 100%.

Besides we keep their vent info for the fun factor and some secrets about something they wouldnt do yet all their main pvp players are doing it. I am not saying what they are "doing" it could be everything like having fun together you know.

Scam also dont punish people in other guilds for other purposes. We play the game for fun not trying to punish others. Yes we kicked cooter out and refused to recruit calisto but thats for the things they have done not them personally (at least for cooter's part).

 

[Vexxed]

li⋅ar   /ˈlaɪər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [lahy-er] Show IPA
–noun a person who tells lies.

Think about this one....

VEXXED SAID:
"I ALWAYS lie....."
*but... if I always lie the statement is false*
*but if the statement is false do I ALWAYS tell the truth ?? *
* but... If I Always tell the truth....*

LOLOLOL

Enough with the "Your a Liar" talk.

Q

Nah.. were simply a bunch of liars just talking.. heh
(seriously.. could someone DEFINE "Personal Attack" for me.. bc imo bringing someones Mother into it counts... but not much less.. that's just me though.. so what's it mean to those whom actually <MODS> count ??)

On another note... YEA.. people are apparently reading this thread alot. More than any other thread... Nothing like a little drama to perk your interest!


LASTLY... I got no screens shots I got no proof... but.... Come on!
bunch of fighting goes down.. all Minax guards are killed off.. & this ends up happening at COP log cabbin.

KMS + Pure Blood & G.Drag + of the Abyss + Mage starting w/ "S... "

VS.

Me + 6 Random Blues... (aka 7 on 4)

END RESULT: COPS sits in house for 2 minutes & then all of them log out simultaneously... Lame sauce......

All done!

 

[bosskram]

I love reading these post they great fun. I just want to know one thing was there ever a duel at the farms...And who won if there was one...

 

[Ruffles]

On another note... YEA.. people are apparently reading this thread alot. More than any other thread... Nothing like a little drama to perk your interest!

This is good

LASTLY... I got no screens shots I got no proof... but.... Come on!
bunch of fighting goes down.. all Minax guards are killed off.. & this ends up happening at COP log cabbin.

KMS + Pure Blood & G.Drag + of the Abyss + Mage starting w/ "S... "
VS.
Me + 6 Random Blues... (aka 7 on 4)

END RESULT: COPS sits in house for 2 minutes & then all of them log out simultaneously... Lame sauce......
All done!

The explaination is very simple...for the most part, they bored with the blues sitting in the guard zone...so go do something else...usually a spawn...raid us...we like it.

Ruffles

 

[Ruffles]

Its called keep your friends close enemies closer. Like how they created SL char on their point farming accounts and voted themselves as SL leader and set the tithing rate to 100%.

As far as I know we don't have farming accounts...we actually make an effort to run sigils and control the towns. We also help each other out by giving points to others in our guild that need them.

I will admit someone won your faction leadership and set the point tithing rate to 100%. But, that was because SL didn't pay attention to who is running for commander. That character won by default because no one ran against it. Do you pay attention now?

Besides we keep their vent info for the fun factor and some secrets about something they wouldnt do yet all their main pvp players are doing it. I am not saying what they are "doing" it could be everything like having fun together you know.

Would help if this made sense...clarify?

Scam also dont punish people in other guilds for other purposes. We play the game for fun not trying to punish others. Yes we kicked cooter out and refused to recruit calisto but thats for the things they have done not them personally (at least for cooter's part).

How can say you don't do something and in the next sentence you contradict yourself and say you do? Am I missing something here? For me at least, I would think that kicking someone being kicked from a guild is a punitive action (punishment). Clarify?

 

[Ruffles]

Ruffles I am not going to tell you who has characters in both PAS and cop. It would be both rude and malicious to "out" these people. PAS allows people to play with other guilds that might offer them a different aspect of the game (so long as certain rules and proper etiquette are followed). If cop leadership or you have a problem with your members being in PAS you should take care of that yourself.

Perhaps it is speculation on your part then? Again, I find that statements such as these without proof is rumor and therefore lacks credibility. It could be true...but then again...

IF what you say is true...I would hope that these people you say in COP would quietly remove him/herseves from COP because I DO know that we in COP expect loyalty to our guild and do not allow members to have characters in "enemy" guilds. I cannot see how there wouldn't be a conflict of interest with someone being in PAS and also in a guild that is an enemy, especially during raids and spawns.

 

[Lord Hunter]

Nah.. were simply a bunch of liars just talking.. heh
(seriously.. could someone DEFINE "Personal Attack" for me.. bc imo bringing someones Mother into it counts... but not much less.. that's just me though.. so what's it mean to those whom actually <MODS> count ??)

C. Personal attacks are prohibited.This specifically means any text/post that is blatantly attacking another person on or off the forum, especially in a personal way.

D. Trolling is prohibited.Trolling is whenever someone is clearly, deliberately posting in a manner for the purpose of angering and/or insulting the other participants of the board. Trolling DOES NOT encourage further discussion in the long run, it only encourages personal attacks (if left unchecked).

That defines it pretty plain and simple right there. If your are posting something that could be taken as a attack by the person you are directing your post too then that is not permitted and will not be tolerated.

There have been a few personal attacks in this thread, but for the most part it is staying on topic and RoC compliant.

Lets try and keep it that away or this thread will not remain open much longer.

It is possible to have a legitimate conversation about PvP without breaking the RoC, it was done in the past and it can be done so again. Just reread your posts very carefully, if you think that it could be agaisnt the RoC chances are it is.

Example, calling someone a Liar, or calling them stupid is indeed a personal attack.

I hope that clears a few things up for you.

 

[Lord Hunter]

I love reading these post they great fun. I just want to know one thing was there ever a duel at the farms...And who won if there was one...

I won by defualt becuase no one showed up.

On a side not if there is a PvP tourney please let me know, I had a few very enjoyable duels yesterday with some people I had never met before. It seems like you can still do a old fashioned duel with strangers. No ganking or trash talking, just a good old fashioned duel.

The results were me loosing, but a duels a duel and it was my first one in about 2 years.

This conversation seems to be going good and people seem to be trying to honestly try and follow the RoC. Lets try and keep it that way and stay on topic.

 

[Kellgory]

Just to make a small correction to you list of "point horders", if you were to look at Chooch's skills you would see that char is a thief as well and captures sigils whenever someone else in the guild hasn't already stolen them. Cop has a crew of people that steal sigils whenever they can be stolen and have been doing it faithfully since way before the invasions begain.

 

[WarUltima]

Just to make a small correction to you list of "point horders", if you were to look at Chooch's skills you would see that char is a thief as well and captures sigils whenever someone else in the guild hasn't already stolen them. Cop has a crew of people that steal sigils whenever they can be stolen and have been doing it faithfully since way before the invasions begain.

Great so thats two thieves with 261 points. And I believe before invasion there wasnt points for capturing sigils correct? Thats cool. Good for you. Again Ruffles is saying things that completely contradicting the physical proof provided by the official site. But yes she can believe what she want, COP have never farmed points not even once. Oh thats great, I completely respect that kind of honesty. So all the points are legit and point horders are still a fact/tactics used to protect the points from the dreaded OJs right? I understand now.

Thanks for clearing things up for me.

According to the official site and cop alts in enemy faction I believe that they are either point farming or xfering all the points earned from capturing sigils to point horders to ensure their points in case of guildies running low on points ect... thats a pretty logical assumption not "basing the facts on what I like"... Ruffles maybe next time you will have a better credibility replying/expressing your opinions in a logical manner like this.

Thanks.

 

[Kellgory]

I can't say that there isn't a person in the guild that isn't farming point in a non-legit manner since I personnally don't know what everyone is doing all the time, just as you can't vouch for all your guildmates actions. I can say that most if not all the points you see on the leaderboard that are associated with COP were gathered via stealing sigils. For the most part, those chars that are PVPers keep the points they earn from PVPing on their chars or transfer points to other PVP chars that might be needing some points. I'm not sure how the non-fel Minax guild acquired their points. As far as you saying people in COP having chars in other factions, I will admit I do have a char in SL because of the EM event that stated that unless your in SL there really wasn't any reason to attend. So I created a char, and when the event rolled around I ended up missing it.

Just some friendly advice, It seems like you have a unhealthy obsession with COP with all the we have a spy in COP, we ping COP's vent server to see how many people they have on, and we listen and record COP's conversations and make mixes, maybe if you paid more attention to your own guild it wouldn't have gone down the crapper.

 

[Ruffles]

Awwww War Ultima...methinks your nose is way out of joint from so much tweaking it.

First of all, In factions there are 3 ways of gaining points that I know of.

Kill another faction member, disarming traps, and stealing sigils. I do believe there is information on thios at the top of the thread and in stratics. Go look.

You do not need to be GM anything to steal sigils and between myself and and my own family that plays we have 3 thieves, in factions. There are others as well in COP that have thieves. As for Bonechips he is my son's character. He is very happy, as I am, that we can contribute to COP in this way. This is as close as I let him play in Fel. He wants to PVP, but he is still a bit young , agewise, in my opinion to do so. So this works for us. He loves "doing the sigils" as much as I do. Considering we have been doing this since a couple months after joining factions, yes we have acumulated quite a few points. If this is farming points according to YOUR definition, so be it.

None of our (my family) accts have any characters in SL.

I really don't want to violate the RoC by talking about accusations and use of scripts. So won't even go there.

As for telling me what I would say or think, I just dont think you know me well enough to do that. If you REALLY want to know, just ask me.

As for your comments about Cooter and Calisto...I for one am glad they are in COP. They are fun

I do have a question for you...
Do you have fun playing UO?

 

[Ruffles]

Awwww War Ultima...methinks your nose is way out of joint from so much tweaking it.

First of all, In factions there are 3 ways of gaining points that I know of.

Kill another faction member, disarming traps, and stealing sigils. I do believe there is information on this at the top of the Sonoma Forum and in Stratics. Go look.

You do not need to be GM anything to steal sigils and between myself and and my own family that plays we have 3 thieves, in factions. There are others as well in COP that have thieves. As for Bonechips he is my son's character. He is very happy, as I am, that we can contribute to COP in this way. This is as close as I let him play in Fel. He wants to PVP, but he is still a bit young, agewise, in my opinion to do so. So this works for us, for now. He loves "doing the sigils" as much as I do. Considering we have been doing this since a couple months after joining factions, yes we have acumulated quite a few points. If this is farming points according to YOUR definition, so be it.

None of our (my family) accts have any characters in SL.

I really don't want to violate the RoC by talking about accusations and use of scripts. So won't even go there.

...If people say something you dont like you will say "I can believe what I want" (again your own words in your previous posts).

What post did I say that? please put the post #.
I just dont think you know me well enough to say what I would do or think. If you REALLY want to know, just ask me.

As for your comments about Cooter and Calisto...I for one am glad they are in COP. They are fun

I do have a question for you...
Do you have fun playing UO?

 

[Ruffles]

If people say something you dont like you will say "I can believe what I want" (again your own words in your previous posts).
[\QUOTE]

Please give me the post number(s) that I actually said that.


Thank You
Ruffles

 

[WarUltima]

You know what's really funny? I will haven't receive any "logical" assumption or any kind of prove from anyone from your guild to support many false statements you guys mentioned. Oh in no way I am a leader of any kind in my guild. They simply wish me to reveal any kind of false accusation that you guys made up.

They often sent me screenshots when catching you guys doing something funky. Screenshots of a group of cop died around 1 single scam with journal to reveal there's no one else there but a scam farming on a group of cop. People standing on gravestones, running thru bagballs and candabara we placed in base. Many times those screenshots were deleted due to god knows what reason.

There's no obosession. I have my way of having fun. Revealing the truth behind the lies is one of them. I am a logical person thus I know why you guys can't come up with any kind of physical proves to counter my points and often trying to derail the topic by using excuses like "I can believe what I want to believe" or "you have an obosession" but not logical reasons like "you are wrong because *screenshot* *proves B* and "link C".

I usually sit in my office or manage networks in a "cold room" and I am busier than normal these few weeks I got nothing but PCs so I visit the forum a lot. I understand why you guys don't like it, like guilds secret getting out. But what can I do, I have to see who's doing what across hundreds of pc on the network. Most people are "nuttier" than they act out to be including myself. When I block webaccess to www.worldofwarcraft.com so no one in the building but I can go to it, people don't like it, that's completely reasonable.

I am glad at least you guys haven't attack me because I am obviously not an native speaker. Maybe its because the auto ban for racial discrimination but hey I still appriciate it.

Its not my false that I like to reveal lies or prove all the false accusations wrong. It can be prevented by telling the truth, give a logical guess with prove or "believe what you want to believe" and don't accept the truth. Its your freedom.

At least ruffles and I have created quite a traffic to sonoma forums. And its my chance to practice my English, my debating skill and also my logical thinking ability arguing with people behind their alias. I am working on getting the "facts" across without doing anything personal and all of my viewpoints would be supported by some kind of logical proof.

Peace out.

 

[WarUltima]

Oh I am having fun playing UO and also on the forum. You saying me twisting my nose is again another false accusation. Please read my post abouve you will know why I am enjoying it wile watching you guys come up with something to counter me.

Again you said all the characters are thieves? Ok that's great, another statement based on nothing but your own words.

I like UO especially a group of you cussing at me in game after I cheapshot someone and ruffles many people were pissed when I stated you (that's why I know you worth 1 point) you should be glad. No one else in cop but you are that concerned about protecting your guild from things that they are not supposed to know.

Also were you implying my guild using hacks? Please stop it's a personal attack, I will be forced to report you.

Apperently you are not happy enough to keep pas member who likes pvp in your guild. You are not happy for others to prove your points false with physical proves while you have nothing but "I believe" and "I think". Let us keep chars in COP and plz don't kick PAß members in your guild that wants to experience pvp. Its a game you should be happy, don't do things to hurt those people's feeling by kicking them. ^^

 

[Quenchant]

And that is the end of that discussion.

No discussion of hacks is allowed. Of Course you already knew that