DCI stacking

[Death Adder]

I was reading a thread, now closed, where there was some question as to whether DCI could stack in regards to HLD. That is, some asserted that 70 DCI would negate the effects of HLD, and some said it wouldn't. The former used TC as support for their argument, where the proc gumps do indeed show that a target with 70 DCI remains at 45 DCI (the cap) while under the effects of HLD. Some people thought that this was insufficient proof and that the question was still open until a developer made comment.

To this, I would like to add that I have conducted field tests on this issue, and can affirm that DCI does stack above 45. That is, I tested both 70 DCI targets and 45 DCI targets many hundreds of times (under the effects of HLD only) and my results bore out the contention that stacking DCI up to 70 has the intended effect.

Admittedly, without verifying my data, this is all anecdotal, so feel free to take it or leave it. But I assure everyone that 70 DCI will make one HLD-proof.

 

[AtlanteanAngel]

That's good to know.

It follows that 70 HCI similarly makes one immune to HLA.

 

[Lorax_Pacific]

This information is three years old or so. Why so much consternation about this fact?

-Lorax

 

[WarUltima]

This information is three years old or so. Why so much consternation about this fact?

-Lorax

I guess it's because every archer/dexer and their grandmas out there nowdays have some kind of HLD due to imbuing so having a way to force that 50/50 chance to hit/miss became vital for survival especially for mages. Before you will be ok running around with 45 but when that 1st HLD proc on you you became extremely easy to hit, and when you got easier to hit, MORE HLD will reproc and pretty much locks you in -25DCI stat. With moving shot's inescapable nature, this pretty much means you are perma lower defense'ed UNLESS you have 70DCI which does NOTHING over 45 other than negating the effect of HLD.

 

[Yen Sid]

That's good to know.

It follows that 70 HCI similarly makes one immune to HLA.

Doesn't HLA lower the attack strength not the chance to hit something? I may be wrong but I thought that was how it was...

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

I guess it's because every archer/dexer and their grandmas out there nowdays have some kind of HLD due to imbuing so having a way to force that 50/50 chance to hit/miss became vital for survival especially for mages. Before you will be ok running around with 45 but when that 1st HLD proc on you you became extremely easy to hit, and when you got easier to hit, MORE HLD will reproc and pretty much locks you in -25DCI stat. With moving shot's inescapable nature, this pretty much means you are perma lower defense'ed UNLESS you have 70DCI which does NOTHING over 45 other than negating the effect of HLD.

To the OP...read this...

 

[Connor_Graham]

Doesn't HLA lower the attack strength not the chance to hit something? I may be wrong but I thought that was how it was...

No, it lowers the chance for your opponent to hit you. I'm still on my first cup of coffee or I'd look it up, but I do believe that it's -25 to their hit chance just as HLD is -25 to defense chance.

 

[Stupid Miner]

No, it lowers the chance for your opponent to hit you. I'm still on my first cup of coffee or I'd look it up, but I do believe that it's -25 to their hit chance just as HLD is -25 to defense chance.

Yep, that's correct.

 

[Gellor]

With moving shot's inescapable nature, this pretty much means you are perma lower defense'ed UNLESS you have 70DCI which does NOTHING over 45 other than negating the effect of HLD.

Highlighted portion that someone doesn't buy into.

My experience as well as the test center guy using the EC that shows all the DCI numbers show that indeed 70dci does negate Hit Lower D.

There is another claim that the Dev's claimed a DCI cap of 45 comes into effect then the Hit Lower D. To date, no link, dev name, date, year, month, etc has been provided on when this information happened.

 

[Lorax_Pacific]

Highlighted portion that someone doesn't buy into.

My experience as well as the test center guy using the EC that shows all the DCI numbers show that indeed 70dci does negate Hit Lower D.

There is another claim that the Dev's claimed a DCI cap of 45 comes into effect then the Hit Lower D. To date, no link, dev name, date, year, month, etc has been provided on when this information happened.

That is the part that has been known for years.

I like your tag. Look at this picture I took a couple years ago.

-Lorax

 

[Winker]

Highlighted portion that someone doesn't buy into.

My experience as well as the test center guy using the EC that shows all the DCI numbers show that indeed 70dci does negate Hit Lower D.

There is another claim that the Dev's claimed a DCI cap of 45 comes into effect then the Hit Lower D. To date, no link, dev name, date, year, month, etc has been provided on when this information happened.

I agree, i am running with 75 DCI and it does negate Hit Lower Defence. But its a trade off for other mods i could have had. I dont care what the Devs say, it may be buggy it may be intended but it works. It works so good i now have it on 3 of my chars.

 

[Divie]

I guess it's because every archer/dexer and their grandmas out there nowdays have some kind of HLD due to imbuing so having a way to force that 50/50 chance to hit/miss became vital for survival especially for mages. Before you will be ok running around with 45 but when that 1st HLD proc on you you became extremely easy to hit, and when you got easier to hit, MORE HLD will reproc and pretty much locks you in -25DCI stat. With moving shot's inescapable nature, this pretty much means you are perma lower defense'ed UNLESS you have 70DCI which does NOTHING over 45 other than negating the effect of HLD.

I'm sorry are u actually saying you think hld stacks on its effect rather than stacks on its duration?

 

[WarUltima]

I'm sorry are u actually saying you think hld stacks on its effect rather than stacks on its duration?

I am sorry if you think like that.
Hld reproc refreshes its duration. Not its effect. Or you mean it should stack to something like -150 lower defense? That might be a bit too much.

 

[mrrippletip]

please correct me if i am wrong, but my understanding of HLD was it lowered your defense chance by 25%...which i took to mean 25% of your total defense chance...

...meaning if you had 60 DCI and got hit with HLD, then it would be calculated as 25% of 60 = 15...reducing you to 45 DCI

are you sure that the 25% is a flat rate, and not calculated as 25% of a targets total DCI?

ty in advance

 

[WarUltima]

please correct me if i am wrong, but my understanding of HLD was it lowered your defense chance by 25%...which i took to mean 25% of your total defense chance...

...meaning if you had 60 DCI and got hit with HLD, then it would be calculated as 25% of 60 = 15...reducing you to 45 DCI

are you sure that the 25% is a flat rate, and not calculated as 25% of a targets total DCI?

ty in advance

It's straight negative. 60 DCI get hit by HLD drops to 35 DCI. 0 DCI get hit will drop you to -25DCI.

 

[mrrippletip]

It's straight negative. 60 DCI get hit by HLD drops to 35 DCI. 0 DCI get hit will drop you to -25DCI.

TY!

 

[Slayvite]

I miss the old days when this was a game of Skill & luck. Nowadays you need a qualification in advanced mathematics before you can even step foot in Fell.

 

[Yen Sid]

It's straight negative. 60 DCI get hit by HLD drops to 35 DCI. 0 DCI get hit will drop you to -25DCI.

How can you have a negative DCI (or anything for that matter)? Wouldn't it just stay at 0?

 

[Konge]

How can you have a negative DCI (or anything for that matter)? Wouldn't it just stay at 0?

DCI is a property that increases your weapon skill defence chance which is calculated your skill vs opponents skill, DCI just increases the chance that you "dodge" ie the other person misses, HCI is the same way. HCI and DCI don't directly negate each other though. Your Hit chance and dodge chance are two different formulas in two dif steps of the battle calculation, parry is the last step.

 

[WarUltima]

How can you have a negative DCI (or anything for that matter)? Wouldn't it just stay at 0?

Oh it goes to negative and its easy to test.
2 people a and b
A has 0 hci and 50 hld
B has 0 dci
A B has same weapon skill level
A suppose to hit B 50% of the time.
A start shooting B, when you hear the HLD sound then A will start hitting B for more than 50% of the time.

Edit: There are items with negative HCI and DCI mods in game also.

 

[G.v.P]

I understand why threads are locked, but really, they ought to sticky the next one about removing or changing Moving Shot. It has to be changed, either increase mana charge after two or three in succession, or change the special to something else completely.

Also, it's like in each thread we have to define what HLD, HLA, DCI, and HCI do to people who have no idea. Not being mean to people not in the know here, I'm just saying, what does locking the threads do except make us repeat everything over, and over again in a different way, until someone, once again, makes it a personal issue? Haha.