Dark Father difference in damage with swampy and without?

[Theoraln]

Hey everyone,

Let me explain my inquiry, I noticed that when I am fight the Dark Father in Doom there is a considerable difference in the amount of damage I am able to do depending on whether I am mounted on a swampy (with barding) or an ethereal mount.

By considerable difference I mean up to 40 hit points per swing difference. At first I thought I had just mistaken something a different setup or something. So I did a couple of experiments and made sure I was hitting the same Dark Father so there was no difference in resists or skills there.

Sure enough if I'm riding my swampy with standard barding I do around 40hp per swing less damage than if I am riding an ethereal mount. I've never noticed this before and it doesn't seem to make a difference on the Rooms in Doom just the Dark Father.

I made a video of the experiment, see the link below. Excuse the pause in the middle, I died because I got blood oathed and ran out of apples so ran. No matter, logging out to save the swampy gave me the opportunity to record the second part of the experiment. I just didn't see the need to record the slow process of resurrection and getting back into Vamp form.

You can see my stats and skill template in the video as well as the details of my Dark Father weapon.

My question I guess is; Has anyone else noticed this and does anyone have an explanation?

In case you can't make out the damage from the video, on a swampy I cap out at 183hp per swing at the height of perfection running Onslaught, and riding my ethereal I cap out at 229hp per swing.

Here's the link to the video

Dropbox - zorro-vs-DF-with-swampy-and-without-dmg-difference.MP4

 

[celticus]

Bug or working as intended? Not sure but good question. Oh oh, I can see another nerf coming this way..Thanks for posting. Good info and question.

 

[Poo]

without looking at the video i wonder a couple of things.
we all know we get a damage reduction bonus from a swampy (10-20% or 12% for those that run a Proxy).
i wonder if that is giving us the bump to the DI as well?
i wonder if its tied to the Sampire template?
but yes ive noticed this as well, when i get dismounted i take more damage and deal less damage.

 

[Theoraln]

without looking at the video i wonder a couple of things.
we all know we get a damage reduction bonus from a swampy (10-20% or 12% for those that run a Proxy).
i wonder if that is giving us the bump to the DI as well?
i wonder if its tied to the Sampire template?
but yes ive noticed this as well, when i get dismounted i take more damage and deal less damage.

Actually it's the other way around I'm doing less damage when I'm on my swampy and more when mounted on an ethereal. It's actually not far off the 20% either so mounted on swampy I get my 20% dmg reduction but I also deal about 20% less damage.

 

[celticus]

Actually it's the other way around I'm doing less damage when I'm on my swampy and more when mounted on an ethereal. It's actually not far off the 20% either so mounted on swampy I get my 20% dmg reduction but I also deal about 20% less damage.

This is strange, really no known mechanics to explain it, you are right.
Do you see this only on DF? Any other bosses you've see that with?

 

[Theoraln]

This is strange, really no known mechanics to explain it, you are right.
Do you see this only on DF? Any other bosses you've see that with?

I've only tried in Doom all the rooms there is no determinable difference only on the Dark Father. Not tried it anywhere else yet.

 

[Maximus Neximus]

Interesting. I ride the Paroxysmus Swampy in Doom and cap out around 185-195 iirc. I'll try and do a tiny bit of testing too next time.

 

[Parnoc]

I'm an archer and I've ridden a swampy with armor (not Paroxysmus) for years and I never have seen any difference in offense. I just experimented with most of the different types of monsters in the Khaldun Dungeon and not a bit of difference, mounted or unmounted. I think this must have something to do with sampires, sure no difference for me.

 

[hardy-]

OK, let me explain, some mobs "neira,df, the new wrong mobs, shadowlord(not shadowguard) have a system where your damage scale as most vulnerable you be, for example, if you wear a undead slayer talisman, against a repond mob "wrong" you will deal more damage, because if he hit you you take twice the damage, this system goes live in pub 91, but idk why.

for example in df, if you go without swamp and use a Fey weapon while use a demon cameo, you will deal a LOT of damage.

I allready hit 1600+ in word of death in the wrong troll using this trick "repond book + antislayer talis"

we just need build a list of the mobs, since we don't have any info in this

 

[celticus]

This is ingenious work, and very practical info. Thanks for sharing. Interesting to see other combos also.

 

[Akiho]

OK, let me explain, some mobs "neira,df, the new wrong mobs, shadowlord(not shadowguard) have a system where your damage scale as most vulnerable you be, for example, if you wear a undead slayer talisman, against a repond mob "wrong" you will deal more damage, because if he hit you you take twice the damage, this system goes live in pub 91, but idk why.

for example in df, if you go without swamp and use a Fey weapon while use a demon cameo, you will deal a LOT of damage.

I allready hit 1600+ in word of death in the wrong troll using this trick "repond book + antislayer talis"

we just need build a list of the mobs, since we don't have any info in this

This has got me intrigued, I was wondering why people have been using Elemental Slayers at the DF. Not been in there for a while myself so have not tested but may go in for a whirl/test.

Regarding Pub 91, I don't see this change in the notes, was it discovered by accident or was it noted somewhere? Seems a bit out to say an undead slayer should do more damage to a humanoid (repond). Seems like this could just be a bug that has been accepted.

On a trivial note, you mention Neira, I was under the impression she had no slayer vulnerability, does she have an odd ball slayer vulnerability that people would be unlikely to try?

Either way, very intriguing if a little counterintuitive, going to start switching out slayers on all encounters now and see what happens.

 

[hardy-]

This has got me intrigued, I was wondering why people have been using Elemental Slayers at the DF. Not been in there for a while myself so have not tested but may go in for a whirl/test.

Regarding Pub 91, I don't see this change in the notes, was it discovered by accident or was it noted somewhere? Seems a bit out to say an undead slayer should do more damage to a humanoid (repond). Seems like this could just be a bug that has been accepted.

On a trivial note, you mention Neira, I was under the impression she had no slayer vulnerability, does she have an odd ball slayer vulnerability that people would be unlikely to try?

Either way, very intriguing if a little counterintuitive, going to start switching out slayers on all encounters now and see what happens.

ye, its something we rly don't have any oficial info, but trust me it changed, and it works. A lot of the boss when you use the "anti-slayer" you get hit more hp but deal more damage. Maybe an OP make a topic in uo warrior and we fill with info? I think it should be a good thing.

 

[King Greg]

Well, dark father was always Vulnerable to both Elemental and Demon Slayer, or so I am told by some players. I think the point was to make it to where if you do double damage to him, he does double damage to you. But this made the damage modifier code Wonky, allowing you to break the "Cap" that most monsters work under.

I would be interested to see some testing on other mobs, but as far as I know the dark father is the only one that this really works on.

 

[hardy-]

Well, dark father was always Vulnerable to both Elemental and Demon Slayer, or so I am told by some players. I think the point was to make it to where if you do double damage to him, he does double damage to you. But this made the damage modifier code Wonky, allowing you to break the "Cap" that most monsters work under.

I would be interested to see some testing on other mobs, but as far as I know the dark father is the only one that this really works on.

the point is, it don't break the cap, at least with neira and dg, when you ride a swampy you deal less damage, you deal under 300% cap even if you are on 300%.

For example with swamp you wont will hit cap even with 120 anat 120 tt 150 dex 100% honor 120 chiv, you can put everything you will still hiting less then a player unmonted.

 

[King Greg]

the point is, it don't break the cap, at least with neira and dg, when you ride a swampy you deal less damage, you deal under 300% cap even if you are on 300%.

For example with swamp you wont will hit cap even with 120 anat 120 tt 150 dex 100% honor 120 chiv, you can put everything you will still hiting less then a player unmonted.

So you think the Dragon Acts like a - Damage Modifier against certain opponents like the penalty on Armor Ignore? I'll go do some testing later today.

 

[hardy-]

So you think the Dragon Acts like a - Damage Modifier against certain opponents like the penalty on Armor Ignore? I'll go do some testing later today.

Ye, sounds like -20% from my tests, not sure about value too, but rly looks like that.

 

[Ford Taunus]

There is indeed lot of secrets on bosses . This "dragon vs ethy one is totally new for me!
There is things like use hit fatique against Ozymandias... just not for stamina loss but truth that low stamina somehow causes parrying chance drop (Monsters only)... things like this is hidden for most of the people.
Thanks for this one! Things like this is real keys on succesfull professonal PVM.

 

[Obsidian]

Looks like I need to pull out my sampire (mounted on swampy) and wammy (unmounted and in wraith form) to do some damage comparisons with all else being equal. I'm also intrigued by the anti-slayer groups doing more damage. Something to explore after 20+ years!

 

[celticus]

Looks like I need to pull out my sampire (mounted on swampy) and wammy (unmounted and in wraith form) to do some damage comparisons with all else being equal. I'm also intrigued by the anti-slayer groups doing more damage. Something to explore after 20+ years!

That is why Stratics rocks! Where else we get to share this info..(**pat on Stratics back**). I just hope we are not heading for a new ninja nerf if this is correct..

 

[Akiho]

That is why Stratics rocks! Where else we get to share this info..(**pat on Stratics back**). I just hope we are not heading for a new ninja nerf if this is correct..

I'll be honest, things sound broken (nothing new really). Slayers were there for a reason, If I were always going to do more damage to undead NOT using an undead slayer, I'd never make an undead slayer... Go figure..

The whole... But you take more damage using the wrong slayer is a pointless argument.

Example...

Use undead slayer - hit for 100+ life leech for 20%, you will not die

Use Repond against Undead - Hit for 200+ life leech for 20% absolutely nothing on this planet will kill you!

It's simply broken in my opinion.

 

[Basara]

So, what if I used my old Repond/Undead double slayer sword from the old Haven quests?

 

[Pawain]

UO would break.

Very nice thread. Thanks all

 

[hardy-]

I'll be honest, things sound broken (nothing new really). Slayers were there for a reason, If I were always going to do more damage to undead NOT using an undead slayer, I'd never make an undead slayer... Go figure..

The whole... But you take more damage using the wrong slayer is a pointless argument.

Example...

Use undead slayer - hit for 100+ life leech for 20%, you will not die

Use Repond against Undead - Hit for 200+ life leech for 20% absolutely nothing on this planet will kill you!

It's simply broken in my opinion.

it's not how it works, you are not going above 300% cap, if you hit 200 with slayer you will not hit 400 with repond against undead, the broke part is, some mobs you can't hit 300% cap even with slayer + damage due some mechanic where reduce your damage when you are "winning", using the oposite slayer in this mobs, let you deal the 300% cap.

Its like when you use hit light/hit harm in the blackthorn guardians