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Classic Shard

What is classic?

  • September 25, 1997 (Launch)

    Votes: 19 11.3%
  • June 11, 1998 (Notoriety and murder system)

    Votes: 14 8.3%
  • March 28, 1999 (Long term murder count)

    Votes: 48 28.6%
  • Publish 5 (Trammel)

    Votes: 16 9.5%
  • Publish 8 (Faction system)

    Votes: 14 8.3%
  • Publish 16 (Champs, PS, pre-AOS)

    Votes: 48 28.6%
  • The Burning Crusade

    Votes: 9 5.4%

  • Total voters
    168
Status
Not open for further replies.
V

Vercingitorix

Guest
People have forgotten that the pre-AOS UO wasn't a PvP game or a PvM game. It was a whole online WORLD to explore and interact with other people in. There was a period of time when Tram and Fel both had thriving populations. And many of them were the same people. They might have a house in tram and mostly hunt in Fel, or vice versa. There were times when you would cooperate with other players, times when you would encounter them in combat situations. People made their own communities. They ran player-run towns, hunted down thieves and murderers, posted bounties, formed hunting parties, ran shops, etc.; you would often see the same player at Khaldun, then at Tram brit selling the goods they had gotten, then at a player-run town in Fel planning a guild war. Only after AOS did Fel become the home of the hardcore PKers and PvPers, and a place to be feared by the rest of the UO community.

A few of the good things to remember about the Pre-AOS world:

1. We were able to post bounties on players' heads who had killed us. We were able to cut up the corpses of players we had killed, and use them as house deco. We were able to turn in the heads of wanted criminals and receive the bounty money. Players would actually form a posse to hunt a murderer with a 100,000 gold piece bounty on his head. You couldn't do any of that in Trammel.

2. Even after Trammel, the best loot was in Felucca. Before AOS changed all the loot tables to the RNG, the very best loot in the game was on the spectral blades and tentacles of the harrowers in Khaldun. Each monster had its own loot table, not a RNG. Efreet were the only place to get daemon bone armor. Spectral blades always dropped force to vanq weapons if they dropped anything. All of the Felucca dungeons had higher-level spawns than Tram, so you always got better loot if you hunted in Fel. Khaldun had the very best loot in the game. It was a matter of risk vs. reward. If you wanted that supremely accurate katana of vanquishing, you HAD to either hunt in felucca or do a ton of treasure chests.

3. Pre-AOS, we could still recall to anyplace in any of the Felucca dungeons that we wanted to, except Khaldun. Even after Pub 16 and the champion spawns, we could still recall in and out except the actual champ spawn areas inside a dungeon. The AOS crew stopped people from recalling into and out of Fel dungeons and everybody except the hardcore PvPers and PKers abandoned them. These days, all the dungeons in Fel are the domain of factions and guilds full of reds; if anybody tries to encroach on their territory, the Fel guilds and factioners kill them instantly. I should know; 2 of my characters are in a guild that raids spawns every day. I just got tired of getting ganked every time I ventured into a Fel dungeon. It's the old "if you can't beat them, join them" philosophy, I guess.

4. Pre-AOS and item insurance, no self-respecting thief would have stooped to going to Trammel to steal the pitiful handouts that the AOS crew condescended to throw their way. They lived by their wits, expecting a NPC or a player to yell "guards" and their world to turn grayscale any second. Thieves were regulars in all of the dungeons of Fel.

5. NPC shopkeepers wandered around, and occasionally even wandered outside of the town's guard zone. And they may have had impossibly large numbers of hit points, but they weren't invulnerable. If you managed the nearly impossible task of killing a NPC shopkeeper, you could get all the gold he had on him, and the items he had purchased from other players. Back then, blacksmith and tailor NPCs were the perfect targets; people would often just sell force, and even power weapons, and good armor to vendors. Tailors wore pure black sandals, which bank sitters used to show off their wealth. I remember spending the better part of a day killing the Vesper town crier when he happened to step out of the guard zone. Lousy loot, but I locked down the uniform in my house for years. People would ask why I had a town crier uniform displayed with all my rares, and I would tell them about the day one wandered out of town.

And item ID was actully useful; players could occasionally buy really great weapons and armor from vendors. Players who didn't have a character with the item ID skill or an item ID wand handy would occasionally even sell a vanq to a vendor.

6. Mages could still meditate while hidden. Mages complained to high heaven when that was nerfed. The AOS crew's opinion was something like "either like it or leave". There was a mass exodus.

7. Mages used their whole spell books, not just a few high-level spells. A skilled mage depended more on level 1 to 5 spells than any of the high-level ones. And all the spells made sense. Magic reflection did just that: It reflected a spell back onto the caster. Great to use against warriors with lightning charges on their swords. Or another mage with a flamestrike precast. If you were fighting a mage, you pretty much had to cast something small and harmless first, because your first spell was guaranteed to hit you instead of your target. Reactive armor would take 75 points of damage before it broke. Protection would work every time against warriors with 25 intelligence, but seldom worked against a mage with as much intelligence as you had. Mages lived by their skill. You still needed to eat, so the level 1 create food was really handy. You needed to see at night, so warriors in the group would ask for night sight every few minutes. If you didn't understand and take advantage of your whole spellbook, you couldn't survive in either pvm or pvp combat.

8. Likewise, warriors' armor and skills made sense. Back then, armor was rated according to the total amount of damage that it absorbed, not a percent.
The old formula for parry was based on the weight of the shield, which determined how often you could parry, and how much damage that it would absorb:
As an example, a fighter with 100 parry using a buckler would successfully parry a physical attack approximately 86% of the time. However, the shield would only absorb 10 points of damage per successful parry. By contrast, a chaos shield used by the same warrior would only allow him/her to successfully parry a physical attack about 36% of time, absorbing approximately 48 points of damage.

Also, a warrior would usually wear full plate armor, which gave 40 protection, 48 if it was all valorite, or 53 it it was all armor of invulnerability. If you were using a chaos shield and successfully parried, only the hardest hitting monster could do much physical damage to you. Meanwhile, a mage could only wear leather with a puny 13 AR. Their clothes would sometimes add a little to that, but not much. On the other hand, the clothes could have some magic charges that would help out a little. And there wasn't any such thing as mage armor; they couldn't hold a weapon or shield and cast at the same time. Mages had to depend on casting reactive armor to supplement their weak physical armor to avoid taking physical damage, while warriors could just walk through massive physical attacks. But mages had quite an arsenal of magic attacks. They could freeze a warrior in his tracks, disarm him with wrestling, cast invisibility and meditate in safety, etc. Plus, they could attack from a distance, while the warrior had to close the gap and get up close and personal to do any damage. Pre-AOS, despite their weak armor, skilled mages were the most powerful template in the game.

9. Most of the player base went to the champion spawns when they were first introduced because they could recall into the dungeon just outside the champion zone, and recall out as soon as they left it, and, if they died within the zone, they would just be transported to a town healer with all of their items intact. They would only lose the stuff they would have looted from the champion. The AOS crew "fixed" the system so that they when they were inevitably murdered at the champ spawn, they had to spend the next 15 minutes running out of the dungeon and finding a healer, and everything on their corpses was lootable. The new power scrolls and stat scrolls made the PKers and faction PvPers much more powerful than the regular player base, so they would die before they could even begin bandaging. And they couldn't just recall back into the dungeon, either; they had to make the whole journey back through all the monsters and PKers. In other words, they could just count everything that they took to a champ spawn a total loss unless they joined a faction and PK guild. After the changes, the AOS crew managed to change Fel from the place that players went to hunt and play, to a place to be avoided by the vast majority of the player base. Before AOS, the Fel dungeons had players in them 24/7. But that changed really fast. 3 months after AOS came out, only the most wealthy, best-equipped PvPers would dare venture into any of the Fel dungeons anymore.

10. House storage. We gave up a LOT! of storage space to allow us to have more secure containers; before AOS, a small house would only have one secure container, which would hold up to 125 items and was thief-proof, but it would have 25 lockdowns; when we locked down a container, it would provide storage for 125 items of unlimited weight. In other words, pre-AOS, a private 7x7 home could hold a total of 25x125=3,125 locked down items, plus 125 secure items, total 3,250 items. That's more than a maximum storage 18x18 today. A castle back then could store an unbelievable 72,125 items in locked down containers, and another 3,625 items in secures. That's over 75,000 items!!!! However, if the house was public, a thief with GM lockpicking could pick the lock and steal items from it.

11. No factions, or the original faction system as it was designed to work, where faction items were made by GM crafters, were blessed for 21 days then lost all enchantments and had to be replaced, and where PvMers would be encouraged to farm silver to sell to the PvPers in the factions.

12. We could own several houses on the same shard. There wasn't a 1-house limit or a 7 day timer to worry about. Of course, there weren't any open spaces big enough to fit even a 7x7, and a house cost more than almost anything else in the game. But, if we had enough gold to buy them, we could have several. One player might own a vendor house next to a gate, a private house way out in the boondocks to store their valuables, and a third house next to a dungeon or mining spot.

13. No power scrolls. If you just worked your skills, anybody could be a GM mage, warrior or tamer in a matter of weeks. Before the power scrolls, nobody with over a few weeks' play time had much greater skill levels than anybody else. You could go to Jhelom and train swords, tactics and anatomy to GM in a couple of days. You could have a mage cast blade spirits and train magic resist in a couple of hours. Mages took more work to get to GM, but they used so many of the lower-level spells that a skilled PvP mage with just the mid-80s in magery and EI would have a good chance of winning a battle against a 7x GM warrior. Tamers were the hardest to get to GM, but a tamer with a stable of white wyrms was something to be feared. Of course, when they died, they were dead for good, and the tamer had to work hard to tame and train new ones, so even the tamer wasn't omnipotent.

14. You could actually gain skills while playing the game. Remember Power Hour? There weren't any 8x8s, there weren't any anti-macro scripts. You could actually gain a skill from 0 to GM without either spending 100 years playing normally, or making a macro to train that skill non-stop for weeks. When they adjusted the skill system to account for power scrolls, they irreparably broke a lot of it. It took years before they fixed a lot of the areas where it was impossible to gain anymore.

Now for the bad parts about a classic shard:
1. Pre-AOS was also pre-custom houses.
2. I like some of the new skills. Chivalry, ninjitsu and imbuing are great.
3. Blessed rune books. I don't know why the Devs originally didn't make rune books blessed. It was several months before they decided to make them blessed.
4. Storage security. Pre-AOS, if we made our houses public, a thief with GM lockpicking could pick the locks on our storage containers and take the items. We could only make anywhere from one secure container in a 7x7 to 29 secures in a castle. All of the rest of our containers were fair game if a thief could reach them. I remember putting a row of locked down tables in front of my locked down containers, and just unlocking the tables when I needed to get into one of them.
5. All of the neat new items. Look at all the new types of swords, axes, armor, home deco, etc.; we've gotten all sorts of new wearables, collectibles and home deco since T2A.
6. All of the neat new dungeons.

That isn't to say that a classic shard couldn't include some, if not all, of the items in the list above. I can't see many players objecting to a classic shard with custom houses, blessed rune books, and all of the current weapon types and new house deco choices. For that matter, most people wouldn't mind leaving some of the new skills like imbuing in, if it was changed to turn GM swords into vanquishing quality. Pre-AOS, crafters had been begging the Devs to allow them to make items as good as indestructible armor and vanq weapons for years.

On another, less optimistic note, I can't see today's official UO Dev crew allowing us to have multiple houses, or a castle to have 75,000 locked down items in it, or allowing thieves to break into houses of unsuspecting victims who leave their houses public and don't take some security precautions, so we would probably be stuck with the current housing and storage systems whether we like them or not.
This is what I remember and would play again in a heartbeat. I'd even pay a one time access fee to get into an official shard like this.
 

Martyna Zmuir

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Exactly... I think the main point to this "classic shard" is to bring back the subscription base that dont play anymore because they dont like the way uo plays nowdays. So (who actually play uo) I dont think is the main focus here. They have their 30 shards.
You're crazy if you think a classic shard will 'bring back' more than a handful of people. UO needs thousands of people if it has any hope of staying around.

The main reason a classic shard is an absurd idea is that the Dev team doesn't have the resources to even attempt this right now. They have what, 12 people, less if you subtract the artists?

Wake up people, Cal was dangling a carrot and nothing more. Pavlov would be proud.
 
S

slaveone

Guest
What is classic? :stir:
Classic is basically a fanciful land that people on stratics who don't like insurance and trammel pretend was the "best" time in UO history. They like to pretend everyone and their brother would LOVE to return to this and that it would bring in hordes of old and new players alike.

In reality the desire for a classic shard and its touted hordes that would play it is a bunch of BS. It would be a waste of time and resources. I don't even like or use the enhanced client but i would rather they spend time working on that than some stupid classic shard.

If you want semi-classic go play siege otherwise just shut up! No hordes will return to play it maybe it would see a spike in users for about a month or two then it would die off quicker than siege. The bottom line?

CLASSIC SHARD = WASTE OF TIME/RESOURCES
 
J

JoeBlow88

Guest
Search for UoOrigins been highly satisfied so far , old notoriety system worked very well , also old pvp wasent none of that 2 sec your dead crap we saw with t2a patches.


EA killed uo when they introduced the Farme/karma system.

4 kill but you stil get to stay blue is a bunch of crap.

also back then monsters were tough 1000 gold meant something youd rely more on who you know and your contact with people than your armor to save you on the battlefields.

massive battles always taking place 20 vs 20 was very common and what if you lost your house , who care it created a loop where if a house wasent secure anymore no one used it so it decayed until idoc and new owner would show up so it kept house prices down and people happy.

like i said check out UoOrigins in searches you really wont be disapointed , also forget your 7xgm skill and skill locks , wasent any of that crap thats why at GM you were feared , skil worked differently but that was the good part

i helped afriend kill someone yesterday on the place i told you to check out and i helped with 10 fencing , landed 3 hits out of 13 but those helped do the final hit.


search UoOrigins

its the old uo people told you about back then and miss

one thing forget your new way of thinking * i want to be a god * EA introduced with patches by making people think they win UO.

you can play at 30 skills in something in old system youll just be less efficient not less powerfull in the old system.
 
U

Unsatisfied

Guest
You're crazy if you think a classic shard will 'bring back' more than a handful of people. UO needs thousands of people if it has any hope of staying around.

The main reason a classic shard is an absurd idea is that the Dev team doesn't have the resources to even attempt this right now. They have what, 12 people, less if you subtract the artists?

Wake up people, Cal was dangling a carrot and nothing more. Pavlov would be proud.

We'll your crazy if you think only a handfull of people will join, I currently play two player run shards, one with an average of around 1000 at any given time, and a player base of a few thousand that are frequently on, and another with an average of about 700 with an average of a few thousand frequently... Everyone I speak to on these shards wants to play an EA classic shard, and this is only two player run shards out of thousands that I know all have people that want to come back.


Search for UoOrigins been highly satisfied so far , old notoriety system worked very well , also old pvp wasent none of that 2 sec your dead crap we saw with t2a patches.
UOOrigens is useless, both times ive logged on to check it out theres been 30 players or less online and its laggy.
 
L

Lady_Mina

Guest
They won't know untill they try...(wich i think they should)
However...rumours are spreading that the devs won't even touch this idea with a 10 feet long pole...simply because it requires too much "work" (incompetent or just plain lazy?)
 
H

Heartseeker

Guest
Exactly... I think the main point to this "classic shard" is to bring back the subscription base that dont play anymore because they dont like the way uo plays nowdays. So (who actually play uo) I dont think is the main focus here. They have their 30 shards.
You're crazy if you think a classic shard will 'bring back' more than a handful of people. UO needs thousands of people if it has any hope of staying around.

The main reason a classic shard is an absurd idea is that the Dev team doesn't have the resources to even attempt this right now. They have what, 12 people, less if you subtract the artists?

Wake up people, Cal was dangling a carrot and nothing more. Pavlov would be proud.
No, actually you're crazy.
 
H

Heartseeker

Guest
What is classic? :stir:
Classic is basically a fanciful land that people on stratics who don't like insurance and trammel pretend was the "best" time in UO history. They like to pretend everyone and their brother would LOVE to return to this and that it would bring in hordes of old and new players alike.

In reality the desire for a classic shard and its touted hordes that would play it is a bunch of BS. It would be a waste of time and resources. I don't even like or use the enhanced client but i would rather they spend time working on that than some stupid classic shard.

If you want semi-classic go play siege otherwise just shut up! No hordes will return to play it maybe it would see a spike in users for about a month or two then it would die off quicker than siege. The bottom line?

CLASSIC SHARD = WASTE OF TIME/RESOURCES
The only waste of time was reading you're post.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
 
G

georgemarvin2001

Guest
@unsatisfied: I have been checking out a few of the free shards to see which of the classic shards and rulesets are the most popular. It turns out that the most populous is actually a hybrid, with 161,775 accounts. All of those were active within the last 90 days; any account which doesn't log in within 90 days is automatically deleted, characters and all, and can't be restored. It is fel-only, circa publish 15, no power scrolls for anything except blacksmithing and tailoring. It has BODs, and a valorite hammer can make exceptional vanquishing weapons, the most powerful in the game. All of the weapons, armor and skills are pre-AOS, but there are customized houses, plants, etc., most of the deco and craftables which are popular among us current OSI shard players, and several things which the official UO never made that I thought it should, like 1 vs 1 instanced arenas, gambling houses, ventrilo servers set up for guilds. It has factions, just as they were designed to work in the beginning, but I was surprised to find that only 1,201 players are in factions, despite the obvious advantage of getting a weapon and armor which are blessed for 2 weeks. Housing is limited to just one per player, and decay is set so that a house falls after just 14 days of inactivity, but with more players on one felucca facet than there are on all of the land areas of all of OSI's 20 shards or so combined, it's beyond crowded.

To be honest, if UO had implemented a classic shard 6 years ago, soon after they realized that the AOS skill and item changes were destroying their subscription base, and causing even their most loyal customers to either quit, go play on free shards, or leave for another game, they could have easily reclaimed most of them by just making a few of the less-populous shards "classic" and leaving the rest with the AOS ruleset. However, that was when the free shards still had frequent world resets, lots of down time, sometimes more down time than uptime, lots of lag when they were up, and most of the free shards were only lasting a few weeks or months before they poofed. The people who tried them had given up fully developed characters on the OSI shards and had to start over from scratch. They had given up towers, and 18x18 homes. They had given up their beloved rares. They had given up their guilds, their friends, their whole online lives. When I quit in protest of AOS, I tried a free shard, and could hardly move due to lag, then the server reset and I lost the little amount of skills and stuff I had; I just gave up on UO entirely, then came back when ML was released. When I quit again, I played WoW a while, but its structured storyline got boring after I had maxed out skills and gotten the best armor, so I came back to UO for SA. I hadn't tried a free shard since the ugly, early days.

After the disaster that was AOS was released, I could see the vast majority of the players on even the most populous free shards leaving to rejoin UO if it had re-introduced a classic shard. At that time, the free shards were all unplayable crap. However, several of the free shards that sprung up in defiance to AOS are still around, since several of them are advertising "trammel free since 2003" or such, and many of the players on the free shards have now been there for over half a decade, and they seem to think that EA is much, much more likely to poof the official UO servers than the shards they are playing on. At this late date, it may be too late to really bring back a large percentage of the people who were disgusted by AOS. They have had 7 years now in which to form their own communities, build new collections of pixel candy, form new guilds and friendships, and change the game in the directions that they wanted it to take. And they have went from being run by a single UO enthusiast in his basement or the back of a bar in his spare time, to teams of dozens of professional staff members and banks of top of the line servers with multiple T1 connections. I noticed that one was able to brag that there was no server-side lag with over 9,000 players connected simultaneously. Meanwhile, OSI's staff has dwindled, and there is noticeable lag when just a few dozen people are at a champ spawn.

On another note: This doesn't have anything to do with a classic shard, but I found it to be very interesting. I noticed that one of the more ambitious free shards now has a total of 13 playable races. They didn't include elves as a playable race for some reason, presumably balance issues, or maybe just because they were from the ML expansion, much later than the popular Pub 15 time period, but dwarves, goblins, shades, vampires/succubi, and even ku sidhe made the list. Each race has its own town, and respected GM craftsmen can open a shop within the boundaries of that town. They all have to act within the role-playing boundaries of acceptable behavior for their races; a really nice imp or goblin, or a really evil gypsy or dwarf might suffer perma-death. Very interesting concept.

Another interesting concept which makes some of the free shards economically viable was the "blue ball": For a donation of $20, (or you find the item on a player's vendor for 1 million gold, which was MUCH harder to get on pre-AOS shards), you receive a blue ball which, when used, will remove the murder count of a previously red character. Since behavior resembling that of factioners and reds on production OSI shards generally results in perma-red characters going into permanent stat loss when they die on pre-AOS free shards, there are a lot less perma-red murderers on non-OSI classic shards. The people who do commit a lot of murders often find that besides the penalties if they die, they aren't welcome in towns, and can't use banks except bucs den, where groups of players are lying in wait to collect the bounties on their heads. A really serious PvPer will shell out the cash so he doesn't have to delete his favorite character and train a new one. The penalty is steep enough that, unless he is rich, he isn't likely to go on another murder spree anytime soon. EA could make a little extra cash with a similar setup. Give all the reds a one-time reprieve, then bring back permanent stat loss and sell a "blue token". It would make players think twice before going on that PK'ing streak, and maybe Felucca would be a little less deserted. I think removing stat loss was almost as bad of an AOS decision as changing armor, weapons and skills.

For that matter, three classic shards, one T2A, one circa publish 15, and one hybrid, wouldn't cost much. Just make copies of the three most populous free shards, one per era. All of the work is pretty much already done for Mythic. If nobody came, they could just delete them like they do with test shards.

Also, there is a free program which does the exact same thing that UOAssist does, but it's ... oh, the horror... free. Why can't UO just let players who don't want to pay for UOAssist use that legally? A simple statement to the effect that UO wouldn't ban peoples' accounts if they used the program whose name is the same as a shaving instrument would level the playing field between the UOAssist users and those who refuse to pay for it. And, while they're at it, why not just go ahead and approve the new replacement for the old defunct UO AutoMap? Maybe even give the authors of the programs a little thanks for their great work. Pre-AOS, people could submit neat little programs like the curse tool and get them approved, as long as they were harmless. That's how we got UOAssist, UOAM, etc.; then the AOS crew came along, and no free 3rd party program to do anything, no matter how harmless or useful, has been approved since.
 
U

Unsatisfied

Guest
@unsatisfied: I have been checking out a few of the free shards to see which of the classic shards and rulesets are the most popular. It turns out that the most populous is actually a hybrid, with 161,775 accounts. All of those were active within the last 90 days; any account which doesn't log in within 90 days is automatically deleted, characters and all, and can't be restored. It is fel-only, circa publish 15, no power scrolls for anything except blacksmithing and tailoring. It has BODs, and a valorite hammer can make exceptional vanquishing weapons, the most powerful in the game. All of the weapons, armor and skills are pre-AOS, but there are customized houses, plants, etc., most of the deco and craftables which are popular among us current OSI shard players, and several things which the official UO never made that I thought it should, like 1 vs 1 instanced arenas, gambling houses, ventrilo servers set up for guilds.
This is one of the main shards I play on,

It has factions, just as they were designed to work in the beginning, but I was surprised to find that only 1,201 players are in factions, despite the obvious advantage of getting a weapon and armor which are blessed for 2 weeks.
Theres a couple of reasons for the low faction population atm, factions got out of hand with point farmers (just another lovely part about free shards having 4 accounts open per ip) so they did a faction whipe and a restructure... Ontop of this a month ago one of the two allowed side programs (like UOAssist) called sallos was taken down unexpectedly, most faction pvpers use this program and refuse to go back to using the old one so they all quit playing.

Housing is limited to just one per player, and decay is set so that a house falls after just 14 days of inactivity, but with more players on one felucca facet than there are on all of the land areas of all of OSI's 20 shards or so combined, it's beyond crowded.
I could find a place on this shard to put down a small house in about 15 minutes at any given time, large houses are impossible to just go out and place, but thats good because theres a massive IDOCing community... And to own a big house can actually mean youve earnt it. Except for the ****ed up econemy that I will explain later.


Another interesting concept which makes some of the free shards economically viable was the "blue ball": For a donation of $20, (or you find the item on a player's vendor for 1 million gold, which was MUCH harder to get on pre-AOS shards), you receive a blue ball which, when used, will remove the murder count of a previously red character.
And here comes one of the biggest problems with this shard, and the reason 90% of the people will return to EA. Donations. Any rich person irl can buy gold, 7xgm characters, cbds, blue characters, house decos, pet summoning balls, pet bonding deeds, colored hair/beards, ethereal mounts... the list goes on. The econemy is in shambles because of this, if anyone wants to come and play the game but doesnt have a lot of money irl they have a really hard time ahead of them if they want any kind of wealth.



For that matter, three classic shards, one T2A, one circa publish 15, and one hybrid, wouldn't cost much. Just make copies of the three most populous free shards, one per era. All of the work is pretty much already done for Mythic. If nobody came, they could just delete them like they do with test shards.
The problem here is splitting the original player base across three shards. If a lot of people join one shard and its populated more will follow, if they join 3 and its 3 smaller ones they will remain small because they will be underpopulated.
 
L

Longest Journey

Guest
Publis 16 with Power Scrolls and champion spawns? Seriously, folks? I mean, Power Scrolls are what helped ruin the game.

Champion Spawns didnt really have much a point before the massive nerfages that came with AOS. Before AoS, monsters like Ogre Lords, Ancient Wyrms, Titans and Lich Lords posed serious threats for players to take on. We didnt need "Boss" Monsters to tangle with. There was enough challenge already.

Thats why I voted March of 99. It predates all of the changes that took the challenge out of the game.

If the developers want a basic design to follow for a classic server, use T2A, apply the necessary fixes to the serious glitches and bugs, and you'll have a good quality server.
 
U

Unsatisfied

Guest
If the developers want a basic design to follow for a classic server, use T2A, apply the necessary fixes to the serious glitches and bugs, and you'll have a good quality server.
More than happy with this....
Kgo dev team
 
L

Longest Journey

Guest
You're crazy if you think a classic shard will 'bring back' more than a handful of people. UO needs thousands of people if it has any hope of staying around.

The main reason a classic shard is an absurd idea is that the Dev team doesn't have the resources to even attempt this right now. They have what, 12 people, less if you subtract the artists?

Wake up people, Cal was dangling a carrot and nothing more. Pavlov would be proud.
And yet, there are players out there who earn a fraction of the budget of what EA/Mythic has for UO, manage to set up, reverse engineer, pay for and maintain free servers in their spare time. Now, how is it these untrained freelance programers out there manage to set up these free servers but EA/Mythic, a company with a larger budget by about a million or so dollars, cant set up a classic server?

No, its not because of resources or that its impossible, because as those who run free servers have shown, its quite possible and not all that expensive. Its more like the current UO devs have used expense as an excuse, and a poor one at that. Bascially, these "professional EA Devs" are being put to shame by the free servers. Now, if I were in their shoes, I would not stand for it, put my nose to the gind stone and build a classic server that would put them all crush all of the free servers.

But thats just me...... I take pride in my work......


Anyway, back on topic.

Yes, a classic server will bring back a great many players. It wont be 100,000 or 1,000,000, but it will still be a substantial number that will make people say, "Hey, UO's still got some life in it yet!". Right now, Im stuck playing WoW, mostly because all of the MMOs out there are bascially all WoW but with different graphics and "back stories". Ive spoken with about 100 or so WoW players across 3 servers who would gladly leave their level 80 epic uber geared characters and come back to UO if EA made a classic server.

Now, thats just what I found on the 3 servers I play on. WoW has about 200 servers. If there are even 20 players on each of those servers who would be willing to come back to UO, that would be 4000 players willing to come back. By UO's standards, thats a gold rush. Not to mention it would mean the classic server would be a success. As time went on, players from other MMOs who used to play UO would get word of the classic server's success and would come back.

So, is a classic server worth it? Most definitely.
 
U

Unsatisfied

Guest
And yet, there are players out there who earn a fraction of the budget of what EA/Mythic has for UO, manage to set up, reverse engineer, pay for and maintain free servers in their spare time. Now, how is it these untrained freelance programers out there manage to set up these free servers but EA/Mythic, a company with a larger budget by about a million or so dollars, cant set up a classic server?
Really good point, the only thing I didnt really have an answer for in reguards to all the people against the classic shard was those saying that they do not have the resources, but your completely right, a couple of nobodies create massive free shards and dont get a cent out of it for years. So "lack of resources" really isnt a good excuse now is it?
 
E

Evlar

Guest
The only reason my account remains active, is because of that dangled carrot!!

I rarely play much now and it expires in July, so if there's nothing serious in the pipleline by then, I'm offski for good.

I've plenty of old frends from the "classic" days of UO who although play free servers or other games, would jump at the chance of returning to an "official" EA/Mythinc "classic" server, simply because they feel it would be more stable.

I don't even think they would need to advertise it much either. Word of mouth is a wonderful thing. How many people here have already mentioned the idea to people they know, then had positive feedback? Quite a lot that I've seen.

Also, if it were to happen, I'm sure that there would be plenty of game sites and forums, where this would be "advertised" free of charge, by those of us playing it.

It's win-win in my book :)

Those who keep knocking the idea... well... they're welcome to stay in their production shards, grinding away to obtain yet more items they can hoard. That is what essentially is the problem for me with modern UO. WoW you grind for levels, UO you grind for items. :(

I don't wish to grind in my leisure time. I just want to have fun thanks ;)
 

G.v.P

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Man I better bookmark this thread, it's good material if I ever get depressed and want to remember "old country" ;P
 
U

Unsatisfied

Guest
Man I better bookmark this thread, it's good material if I ever get depressed and want to remember "old country" ;P
Nah mate, bookmark it then back us up in the fight to get the real "classic shard" put up. Dont just use it for nastalgia :)
 
S

Sadrith Mora

Guest
Pre-Trammel was the earliest part of the game when everyone was either forced to learn how to PvP, or be potentially murdered while trying to pursue the game content they were paying for. While some adapted, others had no interest. It caused a lot of problems and a lot of hard feelings. People threatened to leave the game, and the argument between the PvP crowd vs. the non-PvP escalated.

We all know what happened to the great UO experiment then because of it.

A new MMOG released in March 1999 called Everquest was a major thorn in the side of UO. Many happily left to play it because of all the problems and grief in UO.

Things began to change quickly though, and the talk of a mirrored facet where people could actually play the game without PvP became a hot topic. Trammel was a way to try to salvage the remaining players, and hopefully bring back the players who left for Everquest, or who just plain quit in disgust for various reasons.

It's not really surprising why UO is what it is today. It caters to a very wide audience. It allows for PvP, or PvM exclusive. It has the freedom of character creation without forcing specific templates. It has custom housing creation limited to your imagination. It also has the best expansion released to date. (Stygian Abyss) And it was very well done, btw.

Why isn't felucca as populated as trammel? Simply because people don't want to have to PvP just to be able to experience the game content.

A classic shard is nothing more than a PvP'ers dream who wants to relive past experiences. The only problem is that you won't have any of the sheep of the past who are willing to go back and take up residence so you can terrorize them again.

In other words, it's really a waste of time/effort/resources when instead could be better spent progressing today's UO in a very competetive MMOG market. And it's not going to get any easier if The Elder Scrolls Online becomes a reality. I hope nobody underestimates it's player magnet potential.

This thread doesn't have nearly enough votes to be taken seriously, anyway. If the people who play on free shards are so concerned with what is going on in current UO, and hoping to come back someday, they'd be here voting.

I just can't imagine there being many ex-players who would suddenly want to come back to PAY TO PLAY on a EA run static shard reliving the past of 1999, because it will never be what it was anyway. People have options now. And in all honesty, it wasn't that great back then compared to what UO has to offer today, IMO... Really, it's not even close!

Btw, i've played since Jan. 1998 non-stop. (paid in full)

Take care...
 

Amren

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Nothing past the second age.

The t2a lands also used the original pre-trammel system
 
H

Heartseeker

Guest
Pre-Trammel was the earliest part of the game when everyone was either forced to learn how to PvP, or be potentially murdered while trying to pursue the game content they were paying for. While some adapted, others had no interest. It caused a lot of problems and a lot of hard feelings. People threatened to leave the game, and the argument between the PvP crowd vs. the non-PvP escalated.

We all know what happened to the great UO experiment then because of it.

A new MMOG released in March 1999 called Everquest was a major thorn in the side of UO. Many happily left to play it because of all the problems and grief in UO.

Things began to change quickly though, and the talk of a mirrored facet where people could actually play the game without PvP became a hot topic. Trammel was a way to try to salvage the remaining players, and hopefully bring back the players who left for Everquest, or who just plain quit in disgust for various reasons.

It's not really surprising why UO is what it is today. It caters to a very wide audience. It allows for PvP, or PvM exclusive. It has the freedom of character creation without forcing specific templates. It has custom housing creation limited to your imagination. It also has the best expansion released to date. (Stygian Abyss) And it was very well done, btw.

Why isn't felucca as populated as trammel? Simply because people don't want to have to PvP just to be able to experience the game content.

A classic shard is nothing more than a PvP'ers dream who wants to relive past experiences. The only problem is that you won't have any of the sheep of the past who are willing to go back and take up residence so you can terrorize them again.

In other words, it's really a waste of time/effort/resources when instead could be better spent progressing today's UO in a very competetive MMOG market. And it's not going to get any easier if The Elder Scrolls Online becomes a reality. I hope nobody underestimates it's player magnet potential.

This thread doesn't have nearly enough votes to be taken seriously, anyway. If the people who play on free shards are so concerned with what is going on in current UO, and hoping to come back someday, they'd be here voting.

I just can't imagine there being many ex-players who would suddenly want to come back to PAY TO PLAY on a EA run static shard reliving the past of 1999, because it will never be what it was anyway. People have options now. And in all honesty, it wasn't that great back then compared to what UO has to offer today, IMO... Really, it's not even close!

Btw, i've played since Jan. 1998 non-stop. (paid in full)

Take care...
While you might of played since the beginning, your opinion is flawed by your carebearness.

Everquest was 3d and had special effects; ie more eye candy. So, a bad comparison.

You make it sound like Trammel saved the game; while I saw many more leave than stay.

You realize that subs are only in the thousands now because most people have multiple accounts.

Most shards I have played don't even have a hundred players on them; except Atlantic, which by the way was ten times as busy before.

Don't go bashing this Classic Client idea, it might be the one thing that keeps this game going a bit longer.
 
U

Unsatisfied

Guest
Pre-Trammel was the earliest part of the game when everyone was either forced to learn how to PvP, or be potentially murdered while trying to pursue the game content they were paying for. While some adapted, others had no interest. It caused a lot of problems and a lot of hard feelings. People threatened to leave the game, and the argument between the PvP crowd vs. the non-PvP escalated.

We all know what happened to the great UO experiment then because of it.

A new MMOG released in March 1999 called Everquest was a major thorn in the side of UO. Many happily left to play it because of all the problems and grief in UO.

Things began to change quickly though, and the talk of a mirrored facet where people could actually play the game without PvP became a hot topic. Trammel was a way to try to salvage the remaining players, and hopefully bring back the players who left for Everquest, or who just plain quit in disgust for various reasons.

It's not really surprising why UO is what it is today. It caters to a very wide audience. It allows for PvP, or PvM exclusive. It has the freedom of character creation without forcing specific templates. It has custom housing creation limited to your imagination. It also has the best expansion released to date. (Stygian Abyss) And it was very well done, btw.

Why isn't felucca as populated as trammel? Simply because people don't want to have to PvP just to be able to experience the game content.

A classic shard is nothing more than a PvP'ers dream who wants to relive past experiences. The only problem is that you won't have any of the sheep of the past who are willing to go back and take up residence so you can terrorize them again.

In other words, it's really a waste of time/effort/resources when instead could be better spent progressing today's UO in a very competetive MMOG market. And it's not going to get any easier if The Elder Scrolls Online becomes a reality. I hope nobody underestimates it's player magnet potential.

This thread doesn't have nearly enough votes to be taken seriously, anyway. If the people who play on free shards are so concerned with what is going on in current UO, and hoping to come back someday, they'd be here voting.

I just can't imagine there being many ex-players who would suddenly want to come back to PAY TO PLAY on a EA run static shard reliving the past of 1999, because it will never be what it was anyway. People have options now. And in all honesty, it wasn't that great back then compared to what UO has to offer today, IMO... Really, it's not even close!

Btw, i've played since Jan. 1998 non-stop. (paid in full)

Take care...
The reason (most) people from player run shards arnt here voting or speaking their mind is one of two reasons

a) they dont know about it

or

b) they dont believe the devs are actually going to do anything about it so they wont waste their time, if there is more of a promising action taken... more than "we have discussed the idea and it sounds fun" or whatever they said, THEN you might get some people here talking about it.
 
L

Longest Journey

Guest
Pre-Trammel was the earliest part of the game when everyone was either forced to learn how to PvP, or be potentially murdered while trying to pursue the game content they were paying for. While some adapted, others had no interest. It caused a lot of problems and a lot of hard feelings. People threatened to leave the game, and the argument between the PvP crowd vs. the non-PvP escalated.
The only reason the non-PvP crowd got their way is because they were the only ones who came onto the forums and complained! Constantly! Day in and day out. They spent more time complaining on the forums than they did actually playing UO. They got killed once and it was right to the forums to being the river of tears. The rest of the player base, who werent forum whiners, were actually playing the game, not crying to developers because they got PK'd and their newbie pants got stolen and they took it personally.

If things were so bad, then how come servers like Atlantic were packed with players from server up till server down? Britain bank, both east and west, were always full of players coming and going all day long. Public forges had blacksmiths working and offering repairs and gear. This was all through T2A. If so many players were leaving, explain how come the servers were full of life and activity?

We all know what happened to the great UO experiment then because of it.

A new MMOG released in March 1999 called Everquest was a major thorn in the side of UO. Many happily left to play it because of all the problems and grief in UO.
Even with EQ, UO still had a strong subscription and player base. It was so strong, I personally didnt even notice a change in the number of people playing. The banks were still alive with the hustle and bustle of players going about their business. Every town had people in it. Ghost towns were unheard of.

Things began to change quickly though, and the talk of a mirrored facet where people could actually play the game without PvP became a hot topic. Trammel was a way to try to salvage the remaining players, and hopefully bring back the players who left for Everquest, or who just plain quit in disgust for various reasons.
No, trammel was OSI caving to the incessant whining of the immature players who couldnt handle getting PK'd. You said it yourself, there was Everquest, why didnt all of you anti-PvP players just leave and go play that instead of ruining UO for those of us who were enjoying it?

Answer: Because there werent actually that many anti PvP players. You were in the minority back then. Your only advantage was spamming the forums and GM's with complaints.

It's not really surprising why UO is what it is today. It caters to a very wide audience. It allows for PvP, or PvM exclusive. It has the freedom of character creation without forcing specific templates. It has custom housing creation limited to your imagination. It also has the best expansion released to date. (Stygian Abyss) And it was very well done, btw.
Oh has it? Thats why the sub numbers for UO are still in the toilet. The only reason this game has over 10k players is thanks to the Asian servers, and those are all mostly gold farmer accounts.

SA hasnt done anything other than add more unbalanced garbage into an already unbalanced game.

Why isn't felucca as populated as trammel? Simply because people don't want to have to PvP just to be able to experience the game content.
Wrong. The reason there arent hardly any people in Felucca is because it HAS become nothing but reds. Not to mention there arent enough people playing to populate any of the facets. There are people who hang around Luna bank, and beyond that, its a ghost town anywhere else.

A classic shard is nothing more than a PvP'ers dream who wants to relive past experiences. The only problem is that you won't have any of the sheep of the past who are willing to go back and take up residence so you can terrorize them again.
Sheep? That is a slap in the face to every player who ever stood up to a red and fought back. I was no sheep, nor was anyone else. I fought back and so did many other people. More often than not, it was the reds who fled in terror and cowardice when good blue players forced them out of an area!

Again, more trammie propaganda made to scare or belittle people into believeing the lies. It wasnt the big bad red wolf preying on the innocent blue sheep. The fact that you'd post something like that screams you have no remote idea of how things were back then.

More often then not, it was the blues who were the wolves and the reds who were the sheep. Blues outnumbered reds 100 to 1. If it were the other way around, no one would have ever made it to GM in any skill, but there they were, at every bank. GM warriors, GM miners, GM tailors, GM archers, GM mages, GM in every skill you could think of.

If the game were so unplayable, how do you explain that? Thats right, you cant, not without admitting things weren't as bad as you exaggerate them to be.

In other words, it's really a waste of time/effort/resources when instead could be better spent progressing today's UO in a very competetive MMOG market. And it's not going to get any easier if The Elder Scrolls Online becomes a reality. I hope nobody underestimates it's player magnet potential.
They have been wasting resources on UO for over 7 years now trying to "improve" it. What has it gotten them? Nothing but more canceled subscriptions and rendering UO one of the biggest jokes on the internet amongst the MMO community.

No, the waste of time is to continue UO on its current path of degredation. Its time to start over with a clean slate.

This thread doesn't have nearly enough votes to be taken seriously, anyway. If the people who play on free shards are so concerned with what is going on in current UO, and hoping to come back someday, they'd be here voting.
Free shard players dont believe EA will make a classic server. Mostly inpart to naysayers like you who post nothing but negative comments about the concept of classic servers.

I just can't imagine there being many ex-players who would suddenly want to come back to PAY TO PLAY on a EA run static shard reliving the past of 1999, because it will never be what it was anyway. People have options now. And in all honesty, it wasn't that great back then compared to what UO has to offer today, IMO... Really, it's not even close!
Options? Like what? To play one of the few barely functional templates in the game? To be some neon colored ninja? To be dependent on artifacts? To have all crafting skills rendered useless?

Players cant even be crafters anymore! Theres no point because of the shear dominance of artifacts. Even being a warrior or combatant type character is poinless unless youve got ninjitsu or bushido or one of those other abhorant abominations they dare to call skills. On top of that, unless youve got 120 power scrolls and the latest in speed hacks, you couldnt take down a mongbat!

So tell me, where are the players options? The truth is, they have none.

Btw, i've played since Jan. 1998 non-stop. (paid in full)
I sincerely doubt that.
 
H

Heartseeker

Guest
Pre-Trammel was the earliest part of the game when everyone was either forced to learn how to PvP, or be potentially murdered while trying to pursue the game content they were paying for. While some adapted, others had no interest. It caused a lot of problems and a lot of hard feelings. People threatened to leave the game, and the argument between the PvP crowd vs. the non-PvP escalated.
The only reason the non-PvP crowd got their way is because they were the only ones who came onto the forums and complained! Constantly! Day in and day out. They spent more time complaining on the forums than they did actually playing UO. They got killed once and it was right to the forums to being the river of tears. The rest of the player base, who werent forum whiners, were actually playing the game, not crying to developers because they got PK'd and their newbie pants got stolen and they took it personally.

If things were so bad, then how come servers like Atlantic were packed with players from server up till server down? Britain bank, both east and west, were always full of players coming and going all day long. Public forges had blacksmiths working and offering repairs and gear. This was all through T2A. If so many players were leaving, explain how come the servers were full of life and activity?

We all know what happened to the great UO experiment then because of it.

A new MMOG released in March 1999 called Everquest was a major thorn in the side of UO. Many happily left to play it because of all the problems and grief in UO.
Even with EQ, UO still had a strong subscription and player base. It was so strong, I personally didnt even notice a change in the number of people playing. The banks were still alive with the hustle and bustle of players going about their business. Every town had people in it. Ghost towns were unheard of.

Things began to change quickly though, and the talk of a mirrored facet where people could actually play the game without PvP became a hot topic. Trammel was a way to try to salvage the remaining players, and hopefully bring back the players who left for Everquest, or who just plain quit in disgust for various reasons.
No, trammel was OSI caving to the incessant whining of the immature players who couldnt handle getting PK'd. You said it yourself, there was Everquest, why didnt all of you anti-PvP players just leave and go play that instead of ruining UO for those of us who were enjoying it?

Answer: Because there werent actually that many anti PvP players. You were in the minority back then. Your only advantage was spamming the forums and GM's with complaints.

It's not really surprising why UO is what it is today. It caters to a very wide audience. It allows for PvP, or PvM exclusive. It has the freedom of character creation without forcing specific templates. It has custom housing creation limited to your imagination. It also has the best expansion released to date. (Stygian Abyss) And it was very well done, btw.
Oh has it? Thats why the sub numbers for UO are still in the toilet. The only reason this game has over 10k players is thanks to the Asian servers, and those are all mostly gold farmer accounts.

SA hasnt done anything other than add more unbalanced garbage into an already unbalanced game.

Why isn't felucca as populated as trammel? Simply because people don't want to have to PvP just to be able to experience the game content.
Wrong. The reason there arent hardly any people in Felucca is because it HAS become nothing but reds. Not to mention there arent enough people playing to populate any of the facets. There are people who hang around Luna bank, and beyond that, its a ghost town anywhere else.

A classic shard is nothing more than a PvP'ers dream who wants to relive past experiences. The only problem is that you won't have any of the sheep of the past who are willing to go back and take up residence so you can terrorize them again.
Sheep? That is a slap in the face to every player who ever stood up to a red and fought back. I was no sheep, nor was anyone else. I fought back and so did many other people. More often than not, it was the reds who fled in terror and cowardice when good blue players forced them out of an area!

Again, more trammie propaganda made to scare or belittle people into believeing the lies. It wasnt the big bad red wolf preying on the innocent blue sheep. The fact that you'd post something like that screams you have no remote idea of how things were back then.

More often then not, it was the blues who were the wolves and the reds who were the sheep. Blues outnumbered reds 100 to 1. If it were the other way around, no one would have ever made it to GM in any skill, but there they were, at every bank. GM warriors, GM miners, GM tailors, GM archers, GM mages, GM in every skill you could think of.

If the game were so unplayable, how do you explain that? Thats right, you cant, not without admitting things weren't as bad as you exaggerate them to be.

In other words, it's really a waste of time/effort/resources when instead could be better spent progressing today's UO in a very competetive MMOG market. And it's not going to get any easier if The Elder Scrolls Online becomes a reality. I hope nobody underestimates it's player magnet potential.
They have been wasting resources on UO for over 7 years now trying to "improve" it. What has it gotten them? Nothing but more canceled subscriptions and rendering UO one of the biggest jokes on the internet amongst the MMO community.

No, the waste of time is to continue UO on its current path of degredation. Its time to start over with a clean slate.

This thread doesn't have nearly enough votes to be taken seriously, anyway. If the people who play on free shards are so concerned with what is going on in current UO, and hoping to come back someday, they'd be here voting.
Free shard players dont believe EA will make a classic server. Mostly inpart to naysayers like you who post nothing but negative comments about the concept of classic servers.

I just can't imagine there being many ex-players who would suddenly want to come back to PAY TO PLAY on a EA run static shard reliving the past of 1999, because it will never be what it was anyway. People have options now. And in all honesty, it wasn't that great back then compared to what UO has to offer today, IMO... Really, it's not even close!
Options? Like what? To play one of the few barely functional templates in the game? To be some neon colored ninja? To be dependent on artifacts? To have all crafting skills rendered useless?

Players cant even be crafters anymore! Theres no point because of the shear dominance of artifacts. Even being a warrior or combatant type character is poinless unless youve got ninjitsu or bushido or one of those other abhorant abominations they dare to call skills. On top of that, unless youve got 120 power scrolls and the latest in speed hacks, you couldnt take down a mongbat!

So tell me, where are the players options? The truth is, they have none.

Btw, i've played since Jan. 1998 non-stop. (paid in full)
I sincerely doubt that.
"Classic" You tell him.:)
 
H

Heartseeker

Guest
BTW, I been playing on a T2a shard for a few days and can't believe the difference.

The skill system was so much better before....resist,item id,reflection,poisoning,etc.

Fights last longer and are much more challenging.

It might not have all the bling, but the quality is much higher than it is now....

ps. I love the old music.

pps. How is it possible that the new is so much inferior to what was?
 
S

Sadrith Mora

Guest
I feel like i'm getting ganked by a couple reds. lol

In the famous words of Gordon Ramsay: "Oh my gawwwd, how ghaastly!" seems appropriate...

Eh, anywho...

This was all through T2A. If so many players were leaving, explain how come the servers were full of life and activity?
UO was the only game in town. The argument is when Everquest launched it gave the option for people to get away from UO. I distinctly remember the weeks following as the towns/banks were thin with players compared to what it was prior. If you didn't notice that, you were either playing EQ yourself, or some other game.

UO was still coming out of it's infancy stages, and there were many people who came and went in short periods of time trying out the game, but leaving the subscription numbers hovering around 125k. Everquest took off like a rocket and reached 300k subscriptions in about a year, then 400k another year later.

With all the problems in UO and people not wanting to stick around due to griefing, bugs, exploits, etc. something had to be done. When Trammel was published, it immediately started bringing people back and caused the subscription numbers to increase 100k over the next year, and up to 250k subscriptions total. It's pique. (I couldn't resist)

So why is UO hovering around 100k subscriptions today? Well, first off, nobody really knows the actual numbers. Second, the MMO industy is extremely competetive. There's a lot of quality gaming options available not only with MMO's, but with console's, and now the new facebook craze. What's next to put a dent in UO?

UO's graphics are dated, but still work. It remains in it's own unique niche. It's not going to attract many people today because of it, so the game content is what UO is really about. Complex/engrossing and a hidden gem of a game that i wish more people would give a fair chance to discover.

A classic shard won't do jack squat to 'save' UO, or move it forward. Trammel already did that, and then again later by Mythic which is why it's still around today.

As far as your twisted rhetorical bull****, i disagree, and it's not worth arguing as you are apparently set in your beliefs.

You can play on the free shards compliments of the current loyal fanbase, or even play Darkfall. You have options, just don't make it sound like an EA classic shard that you have to pay for is going to bring back a horde of new paying customers when they'd still be able to play during the supposed 'glory days' for free either way. As a matter of fact, there were free shards back even before trammel. Why? Because people didn't have to pay to play.

PS - According to the poll today, 76 of the voters would prefer a true classic shard (pre-trammel), while 82 of the voters want a classic w/ trammel. And i guess the rest of the thousands of players don't really care either way, and are just enjoying the game for what it is.

If the dev's can bring back a classic shard without jeopardizing the future of UO, then good for all those who truly want it and would stick with it, otherwise who really cares? Not too many apparently.
 
U

Unsatisfied

Guest
PS - According to the poll today, 76 of the voters would prefer a true classic shard (pre-trammel), while 82 of the voters want a classic w/ trammel. And i guess the rest of the thousands of players don't really care either way, and are just enjoying the game for what it is.
Sorry im in a bit of a hurry I dont have time to rip this whole argument apart right now but Im sure Journey will for me I just wanted to quickly pick on this point. I've already covered it but I'm guessing you failed to read it.

This poll is USELESS. This poll is BIASED. 90% of the voters in this poll play now. With tramel, I'm supprised felucia is even getting close to 50% of the votes. Most of the people who would vote felucia quit playing, and reading forums a long time ago because tram exists.
 
L

Longest Journey

Guest
I feel like i'm getting ganked by a couple reds. lol

In the famous words of Gordon Ramsay: "Oh my gawwwd, how ghaastly!" seems appropriate...

Eh, anywho...
:violin:



UO was the only game in town. The argument is when Everquest launched it gave the option for people to get away from UO. I distinctly remember the weeks following as the towns/banks were thin with players compared to what it was prior. If you didn't notice that, you were either playing EQ yourself, or some other game.
Wait, wait, UO was the only game in town, yet people were leaving for Everquest? Contradiction much?

No, you were the one playing a different game, because I didnt notice any drop in the number of people playing after everquest came out, and neither did a lot of other players out there. Occlo, Brit, Skara, Minoc, Magincia, Trinsic, and Vesper were always alive with players at all hours of the day and night, even with EQ being released.

UO was still coming out of it's infancy stages, and there were many people who came and went in short periods of time trying out the game, but leaving the subscription numbers hovering around 125k. Everquest took off like a rocket and reached 300k subscriptions in about a year, then 400k another year later.
Thats because EQ was more "kid/family friendly" than UO was. UO was a niche game intended for mature players who could handle the graphic nature of the game. Thats why the sub numbers hovered around 125k-150k. It wasnt a mainstream game.

With all the problems in UO and people not wanting to stick around due to griefing, bugs, exploits, etc. something had to be done. When Trammel was published, it immediately started bringing people back and caused the subscription numbers to increase 100k over the next year, and up to 250k subscriptions total. It's pique. (I couldn't resist)
Seriously, what proof do you have people were actually griefing? I mean, Ive seen that BS argument shoveled out like so much dung, yet no one has the proof to back it up.

People did realize that PKing was part of the game and people did it because that was the role they chose to play in this role playing game, right? Obviously not. Just because someone killed you it didnt mean they were they for the sole purpose to cause you personally grief. Its called you were in the wrong place at the wrong time and got killed. Nothing personal.

Yet, there they were, the immature unable to handle getting PK'd crying griefer. Seriously, come up with a better argument.

Trammel attracted kids, plain and simple. It attracted the under 18 age group that EQ was drawing in. And it didnt help the player base at all. The quality of player went down with the age number of the demographic that started playing. It was after trammel that you started to see more scripters, hackers, cheaters, dupers, foul mouthed kids, and idiocy amongst the new players. This drove away many veteran players because it was the community and sense of a living world that kept them playing. Trammel killed that.

And that, people, is the real reason Trammel was made. EA wanted to try and syphon off some of the kiddie EQ players and turned their backs on the loyal player base that had helped the game reach that 150k mark. It wasnt because of the PKs, it was because of the bottom line and greed.

Well, hey EA, looks like that bottom line sure took a nose dive over the past 8 years, huh?

So why is UO hovering around 100k subscriptions today? Well, first off, nobody really knows the actual numbers. Second, the MMO industy is extremely competetive. There's a lot of quality gaming options available not only with MMO's, but with console's, and now the new facebook craze. What's next to put a dent in UO?
Actually, the sub numbers are around 75k and dropping with 60% of those accounts active on asian servers. Those asian accounts are mostly gold farmer accounts making easy gold in Trammel.

Quality gaming options? Surely you jest. There are no "quality" games anymore. Its just one WoW clone after another pumped out of the anus of incompetance that is the MMO industry. And the only reason WoW is so popular is because the majority of the player base is either gold farmers, kids under the age of 17, bored housewives, and true griefer *******s who so everything in their power to purposely ruin the gaming experience for you. Examples: Picking a fight with you in a group so you get kicked, Purposely messing up in a dungeon so everything falls apart, Ninja need rolling on an item, Spawn hogging, and spamming the word penis over and over in the general and trade chats, just to name a few. Its games like that you want UO to mimic?

UO's graphics are dated, but still work. It remains in it's own unique niche. It's not going to attract many people today because of it, so the game content is what UO is really about. Complex/engrossing and a hidden gem of a game that i wish more people would give a fair chance to discover.
Okay, heres the thing. People have played UO the way it is now. Guess what? They dont like it....thats why, they, you know....quit. And no, its not because of graphics and crap like that. Look at WoW, its like playing an episode of Looneytoons is so cartoony. If graphics were the issue, then AoC would be the game with 12 millions subs. But its not.

People have been saying for years what would bring them back. Classic servers. Its been said since Reniassance. "Put in classic servers, and we'll come back". Its been said for over 9 years. How much more blatant do people need to be?

A classic shard won't do jack squat to 'save' UO, or move it forward. Trammel already did that, and then again later by Mythic which is why it's still around today.
And look at it today. Filled with speed hackers, dupers, cheaters, item slaves, gold farmers, glitches, exploits, bugs, crashes, inbalance, tons of gimped and worthless skills, item dependence, pointless crafting thanks to artifacts, ghost towns, half assed 3d client....

oh yes, Mythic and EA have done such a good job, havent they? :thumbdown:

Riiight, wont do jack squat. Thats why former players have been saying for years what would bring them back. No, attracting old players and regaining the old player base wont help the game at all............ *rolls eyes*

Seriously, get a clue....

As far as your twisted rhetorical bull****, i disagree, and it's not worth arguing as you are apparently set in your beliefs.
More like, you cant come up with a valid argument to prove that what happend to UO after trammel did anything good for the game, because it didnt. All it brought were the problem players and gave them more than ample opportunity to ruin the game.

You can play on the free shards compliments of the current loyal fanbase, or even play Darkfall. You have options, just don't make it sound like an EA classic shard that you have to pay for is going to bring back a horde of new paying customers when they'd still be able to play during the supposed 'glory days' for free either way. As a matter of fact, there were free shards back even before trammel. Why? Because people didn't have to pay to play.
Reasons why an EA classic shard WILL bring back players:

1.) Free servers are horribly buggy, laggy, and are usually hacker traps to get into your comp and crash it. They are poorly ran and poorly maintained.

2.) Darkfail is a lousy half baked game made by a bunch of shooter junkies who couldnt make a good MMO if their lives depended on it, which lucky for them their lives didnt depend on it, or they would be dead right now. 90% of what they promised wasnt in game and still isnt. The game was bascially released in early beta/border line late alpha condition. Its all in first person. Making money is next to impossible. Theres next to no PvM. It crashes...a lot. It was 7 years of development for nothing.

3.) Former players have been begging for classic servers since Trammel was introduced. All they got was Seige, bascially a slap in the face. Why arent the forums still loaded with classic server requests? For many reasons. One being that at one point, forum moderators were deleting all threads that even mentioned classic servers because the forums were flooded with them. Two, after all of this time, people got tired of begging and getting ignored. Three, the current choice of games out there are jokes, filled with more annoyances and bull-plop than they are worth.

Also, there were free shards back before trammel because some of the hyper obsessed players thought they could do better than the production shards. Those free shards were barely populated and falling apart. The reason they are so successful today is because they offer what EA wont, a classic pre-trammel UO experience.

PS - According to the poll today, 76 of the voters would prefer a true classic shard (pre-trammel), while 82 of the voters want a classic w/ trammel. And i guess the rest of the thousands of players don't really care either way, and are just enjoying the game for what it is.
Todays poll consists of votes from more of the trammie carebears that have always plagued these forums than from true old school players who would do anything to make sure that EA focuses on giving them more artifacts to monopolize and lust after than actually caring about game quality.

If the old school players thought EA was serious about making a classic server, they would be here voicing their minds. However, years of being ignored and their posts deleted have left them highly skeptical, and understandably so.

If the dev's can bring back a classic shard without jeopardizing the future of UO, then good for all those who truly want it and would stick with it, otherwise who really cares? Not too many apparently.
Look at the past 8 years of UO. I cant believe that you can honestly say things are going well. People keep leaving, they have said what would bring them back, yet EA keeps ignoring them.

They keep listening to people like you, and the game keeps going down farther and farther. That right there is all the proof that since you oppose a classic server, it MUST be the right course of action.

The only course of action that jepardizes UO's future is continuing with the post AOS rule set.
 

phantus

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
People did realize that PKing was part of the game and people did it because that was the role they chose to play in this role playing game, right? Obviously not. Just because someone killed you it didnt mean they were they for the sole purpose to cause you personally grief. Its called you were in the wrong place at the wrong time and got killed. Nothing personal.

Yet, there they were, the immature unable to handle getting PK'd crying griefer. Seriously, come up with a better argument.
Well, since all the PK's were roleplaying murderers and the like wouldn't it stand to reason all the people complaining were just roleplaying the victims?

It's not their fault the devs misunderstood the roleplaying for real complaining.

:popcorn:
 
L

Longest Journey

Guest
Well, since all the PK's were roleplaying murderers and the like wouldn't it stand to reason all the people complaining were just roleplaying the victims?

It's not their fault the devs misunderstood the roleplaying for real complaining.

:popcorn:
Yeah, because Roleplaying a victim involved logging onto the forums and spamming complaints and constantly paging GMs because they got killed.... *rolls eyes*

If they were RPing a victim, they would do things like swear revenge, hire bounty hunters to bring them the head of the person who killed them, or gotten revenge themselves by killing the one who killed them....not crying on the forums or to a GM.

Your method of thinking is both assinine and insulting to anyone with a drop of intelligence or who enjoyed RPing.

If you want an example of a true griefer, Ive got one that was rampant more than PKers.

Campers. And no, I dont mean spawn campers, I mean people who would go around dropping campfires everywhere. If you were close to a campfire, even one you didnt set, your camping skill would start to go up. In cases of people who had 7x GM characters, like me, It was a pain in the ass to have a skill like Magery or Blacksmithing or any other skill you worked hard to get up to start to drop because camping was starting to rob from it.

Now thats something I worry about more than thieves and reds combined.
 
I

IceCast[AI]

Guest
Classic uo to me meens Players to fight against. faction defending and much more. yes trammel was a useless addition to the game. but every trammie ends up being a pvper.

althou i think that its truely to late for ea to save their game. many shards have open keep/castle spots no one in luna or britain bank. and fel. doesnt even seem to be remotely populated. theres 2 ways to save UO

1 - make an entire expansion dedicated to PVP think about balancing pvp as it should have been done ages ago. things like dread mares and greater dragons. are they seriously using dope ? then youve got xplode pots flying around from 60 ssi archers. pretty stupid. bushido parry players who can dance around 10 agressive pvpers. and so much more. on top of this. what is the reason for trammel to goto fel? none at all. they released replicas. IN TRAMMEL ASWELL AS FEL.. then same for scrolls of trans and now with this new dungeon. and its recent rewards (tangle etc.) it doesnt invite any trammel player to goto fel. let alone setup a huge guild to stand a chance against pvpers.

I personally think that no one wants to pay 12.99 or w/e it is for a game where theres no one to fight. i personally havent played a blue in over 4 years. i dont like trammel theres nothing for me there. and i think that is exactly how trammel players think about fel.
as we all remember publish 16 made almost all of trammel goto fel. for the simple reason YOU HAD TO.

if ea would do something like that it would create new pvpers. and alot of fun.

But being realistically ea cares more about their uogamecodes site then about the players. they are doing their last effort to milk us dry. i meen we have. like 200 tokens. when they originally created tokens. it was to help with problems/get started quickly (Transfer, Name Change, Advanced Character)

Now its all about useless things. like some staff that teleports you to your corpse. or some discount on your vendor fees.

No offence to the new developers at EA. but they have no clue about uo and what keeps players playing. i personally have seen my shard (EUROPA) go from having 500 man harrowers to being able to do a harrower on your own. there are so many empty housing spots. you can secure sigils on your own. and despise is being done once every 12 hours (if your lucky) by some pro pvm char with 100 sdi etc. this is not what uo is about. its PURE greed

From Ea and from the players. i remember a time where i made a character got some regs a few trapped pouches some pots and a horse and id go and fight without thinking about greed i personally play UO for fun.

And i dont enjoy seeing a gamedeveloping team. try to milk their customers into buying useless items. youd say that 250.000 x 13.99 + every year a 40 buck expansion should be enough to pay these developers. Couse its not like they are doing anything for the players.

Judging by the performance of the developers. id say they are working one day a month.

If i would own UO. i would guarentee to have 1million happy subscribers. why DOES world of warcrap have 11.000.000 players? becouse they listen to the players. they constantly edit things in the game to keep the players happy. on ultima all they wanna satisfy is their contents of their wallet..

Well enough about how **** the employees of EA are.

the other solution would be

To open a pre aos shard that should bring atleast 50% of the players they lost back if not more.

Look at free shards. they are more popular then EA`s uo

why? couse they deliver what EA should do.

And on top of that. Free Shards ask for donations rather then forcing you to pay for something which is otherwise UNOBTAINABLE


Sincerely IceCast
 
H

Heartseeker

Guest
Classic uo to me meens Players to fight against. faction defending and much more. yes trammel was a useless addition to the game. but every trammie ends up being a pvper.

althou i think that its truely to late for ea to save their game. many shards have open keep/castle spots no one in luna or britain bank. and fel. doesnt even seem to be remotely populated. theres 2 ways to save UO

1 - make an entire expansion dedicated to PVP think about balancing pvp as it should have been done ages ago. things like dread mares and greater dragons. are they seriously using dope ? then youve got xplode pots flying around from 60 ssi archers. pretty stupid. bushido parry players who can dance around 10 agressive pvpers. and so much more. on top of this. what is the reason for trammel to goto fel? none at all. they released replicas. IN TRAMMEL ASWELL AS FEL.. then same for scrolls of trans and now with this new dungeon. and its recent rewards (tangle etc.) it doesnt invite any trammel player to goto fel. let alone setup a huge guild to stand a chance against pvpers.

I personally think that no one wants to pay 12.99 or w/e it is for a game where theres no one to fight. i personally havent played a blue in over 4 years. i dont like trammel theres nothing for me there. and i think that is exactly how trammel players think about fel.
as we all remember publish 16 made almost all of trammel goto fel. for the simple reason YOU HAD TO.

if ea would do something like that it would create new pvpers. and alot of fun.

But being realistically ea cares more about their uogamecodes site then about the players. they are doing their last effort to milk us dry. i meen we have. like 200 tokens. when they originally created tokens. it was to help with problems/get started quickly (Transfer, Name Change, Advanced Character)

Now its all about useless things. like some staff that teleports you to your corpse. or some discount on your vendor fees.

No offence to the new developers at EA. but they have no clue about uo and what keeps players playing. i personally have seen my shard (EUROPA) go from having 500 man harrowers to being able to do a harrower on your own. there are so many empty housing spots. you can secure sigils on your own. and despise is being done once every 12 hours (if your lucky) by some pro pvm char with 100 sdi etc. this is not what uo is about. its PURE greed

From Ea and from the players. i remember a time where i made a character got some regs a few trapped pouches some pots and a horse and id go and fight without thinking about greed i personally play UO for fun.

And i dont enjoy seeing a gamedeveloping team. try to milk their customers into buying useless items. youd say that 250.000 x 13.99 + every year a 40 buck expansion should be enough to pay these developers. Couse its not like they are doing anything for the players.

Judging by the performance of the developers. id say they are working one day a month.

If i would own UO. i would guarentee to have 1million happy subscribers. why DOES world of warcrap have 11.000.000 players? becouse they listen to the players. they constantly edit things in the game to keep the players happy. on ultima all they wanna satisfy is their contents of their wallet..

Well enough about how **** the employees of EA are.

the other solution would be

To open a pre aos shard that should bring atleast 50% of the players they lost back if not more.

Look at free shards. they are more popular then EA`s uo

why? couse they deliver what EA should do.

And on top of that. Free Shards ask for donations rather then forcing you to pay for something which is otherwise UNOBTAINABLE


Sincerely IceCast
I'll take option #2.

Mainly because you can't ever try to balance pvp now with all the skills and items.

Besides what made this game great before was the simplicity.

I agree that the dev team and leadership haven't got a clue.

My favorite thing playing on a Classic Shard is the ability to re-equip quickly with new gear, and being competitive in my death robe....
 
U

Unsatisfied

Guest
I personally think that no one wants to pay 12.99 or w/e it is for a game where theres no one to fight. i personally havent played a blue in over 4 years. i dont like trammel theres nothing for me there. and i think that is exactly how trammel players think about fel.
as we all remember publish 16 made almost all of trammel goto fel. for the simple reason YOU HAD TO.

Now its all about useless things. like some staff that teleports you to your corpse. or some discount on your vendor fees.

No offence to the new developers at EA. but they have no clue about uo and what keeps players playing. i personally have seen my shard (EUROPA) go from having 500 man harrowers to being able to do a harrower on your own. there are so many empty housing spots. you can secure sigils on your own. and despise is being done once every 12 hours (if your lucky) by some pro pvm char with 100 sdi etc. this is not what uo is about. its PURE greed

From Ea and from the players. i remember a time where i made a character got some regs a few trapped pouches some pots and a horse and id go and fight without thinking about greed i personally play UO for fun.



Sincerely IceCast

These parts were really well put and to the point
 
S

Sadrith Mora

Guest
I'm guessing this is your idea of making a joke because you've run out of points to argue?
It's not worth arguing with a guy who is so heavily biased in his beliefs. The arguments become nothing but subjective bickering. It's his perspective vs. mine, and everyone see's things a little different based on their own in-game experiences.

Since he can't even admit there are other quality games available today other than 1999 classic UO, it immediately sends up a red flag. While i admire his passion for UO, there are plenty of others with that same passion, but with different preferences.

What the old hardcore PvP crowd doesn't seem to comprehend, let alone care about, is the fact that the Ultima series developed a rich history and fan base for nearly 2 decades before UO became a reality. I think many of the fans wanted to experience Ultima, and what it would be like playing with real people in an online world. Unfortunately, the initial result was very disappointing.

When UO launched it was a complete disaster. It got horrible reviews, and rightly so. With many of the problems such as a simple lack of checks and balances, mega bugs, lag, rampant pk'ing, back stabbing blues, and players exploiting anything and everything they could, because they could, it all added up to be a sad experience for many of the fans of the series.

When i started up in '98, i was not impressed at all. The gameplay to me was quite boring. I would rather have been playing Ultima I if it wasn't for some new friends i met and began adventuring with. After developing my characters further, i started to enjoy the game a little more, but truth be told, it wasn't until i was pk'd while out hunting for leather in the woods before i became hooked on the game.

Sounds weird, but what it did was inspire me to want to finish developing my characters, then go back out hunting for them instead of leather. And that's what i did a little later on as i ended up in an anti-pk guild hunting reds. In all honesty, it was a lot of fun, and i did that right up until trammel was published. After that, there was no real reason to go hunting reds anymore. I spent a few months playing around in factions, and that was pretty much the end of my consistent PvP days.

After trammel was published, it seemed strange to wander around the same lands again without any real worries. But like anything else, you get used to it. A little while later i relocated my houses to trammel, and have been living there since. The only reason i go back to felucca today is to either do champ spawns, peerless, mining, or lumberjacking. There is no other attraction to be there for me.

So yeah, it seemed just about everyone wanted to live in trammel. It became the lively facet while felucca quickly died off. And i think that alone speaks volumes for what the majority of players really wanted.

UO eventually reached it's peak of 250k subscriptions after the relase of AoS in february 2003. What bothers me is many like to blame AoS for the decline in subscriptions, when in fact there is much more to it. There were 2 more MMO's released shortly after: Eve Online, and Star Wars Galaxies. (which happened to have the original ex-designer of UO Raph Koster at the helm)

In the second half of 2004 came the relase of WoW which probably did damage to any and all online games with it's 11 million subscriptions. It would be ridiculous to deny that UO did as well, which is the reason why i can't stress enough the competetive nature of the MMOG industry, and it's impact on other games.

What i said in my previous posts is what i believe to be true, or i wouldn't have posted it. As far as the actual subscription numbers for UO past or present can only be confirmed by EA themselves.

People need to consider the business aspect of the industry more than ever today. Time won't stop and wait for UO to find new ways to become competetive and remain a viable option in the industry. While i feel UO has a unique niche and will somehow find a way to survive, it's just my opinion. Numbers tell the true story. It's at least nice to have a loyal fan base for a game you enjoy so much.

As far as a classic shard, people can't even agree on a specific era they really want back, and it just goes to show the variety of players with their own personal likes and dislikes. None of which are either right or wrong.

AoS isn't exactly destroying UO, (and i have issues with armor myself) it's the ever expanding outside attractions that continue to pique players interest and curiosity hoping to lure them away.

This does not mean i don't want to see a classic shard. If you get it, then good for you. I personally won't be spending much if any time playing around with it myself.

Take care...
 
H

Heartseeker

Guest
The problem with subscriptions is this: you state that after AoS that there was 250k.

The problem with those numbers is that around that time many players had multiple accounts; which in the beggining they didn't.

So subs from a business point of view going up was good; unfortunately many players left, which was bad from the their point of view.

Many people think UO has around 100k subs; but low and behold the amount of players is most likely not even 10k.

The point being from a online multi player perspective(gamers view), the game has died a long time ago
 
U

Unsatisfied

Guest
@Sadrith

It seems you really enjoyed your fel only experience im supprised you have no interest in a fel only classic shard now...

On another note yes people have voted on a lot of different eras for a classic shard but I think the argument rests between this

Tram
or
Fel?

There are split votes between eras of fel but im sure you could pick any of those eras and satisfy anyone voting for any of the fel eras

and the same can be said for tram.

EVERYONE voting wants pre AoS

other than that the argument is just tram or fel, no one is that dead set on one specific eras playstyle asside from that.
 
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