Chinese prisoners used for gold farming.

[Lord Raven]

From the Guardian: "China used prisoners in lucrative internet gaming work."

In addition to their hard labor, the prisoners were forced to play online games to farm gold for the guards to sell for their own profit.

I guess this brings up a serious moral dilemma when purchasing gold... are you supporting forced prison labor?

 

[Drakken Payne]

...the prisoners were forced to play online games...

I can think of worse things.

 

[Lord Raven]

I can think of worse things.

Did you even read the article... no? That was in addition to a full day of hard labor.

The point of this post is to let gold buyers know who profits... and who suffers. Even though I would normally not sympathize with prisoners, this is Communist China, and if you read the article...

"The 54-year-old, a former prison guard who was jailed for three years in 2004 for "illegally petitioning" the central government about corruption in his hometown."

Forced to play games after digging trenches for 12hrs in an open coal mine... and beaten if he didn't meet his game quota, because he complained about corruption.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Did you even read the article... no? That was in addition to a full day of hard labor.

The point of this post is to let gold buyers know who profits... and who suffers. Even though I would normally not sympathize with prisoners, this is Communist China, and if you read the article...

"The 54-year-old, a former prison guard who was jailed for three years in 2004 for "illegally petitioning" the central government about corruption in his hometown."

Forced to play games after digging trenches for 12hrs in an open coal mine... and beaten if he didn't meet his game quota, because he complained about corruption.

depends on where you read it
Your Virtual Gold May Come From a Chinese Labor Camp

do some math ... it really doesn't apply to UO ... where RMT >is LEGAL<

but you go ahead and sympathize with the prisoners ...
and learning a trade ...
and believing everything you read on the net ...
or is it just the Guardian? ... *snaps fingers* That is IT! isn't it?
The Guardian said ...

 

[wee papa smurf]

Slave labour is everywhere, was only a matter of time before online games were brought in to it somehow.

 

[Lord Raven]

depends on where you read it
Your Virtual Gold May Come From a Chinese Labor Camp

do some math ... it really doesn't apply to UO ... where RMT >is LEGAL<

but you go ahead and sympathize with the prisoners ...
and learning a trade ...
and believing everything you read on the net ...
or is it just the Guardian? ... *snaps fingers* That is IT! isn't it?
The Guardian said ...

It's hard to follow what point you're trying to make with the incomplete sentences.

1. The article you referenced is based on the Guardian article so all you've illustrated is that there are other sites that based stories on the Guardian article. I actually saw the story posted by a different source but decided to read the original article myself.
2. I found around 50 definitions for the acronym RMT, so can't reply to that as I have no idea what you're talking about there.
3. Are you really suggesting that the prisoners are learning a trade? I must have mis-understood that half-sentence.
4. As for your remark about sympathizing with prisoners. I'll point out again, the source was imprisoned for complaining about corruption in his town. Not a murderer or rapist... and as I stated earlier, this is to get gold buyers to think about where their gold is coming from.

No, I don't believe everything I read on the web, but if you read the original article, you can see it uses two sources for reference. Rather than linking to an article that just paraphrases the one I listed, how about you supply a link that quotes reliable sources, that debunks the article. Then you would have done your own research into your rebuttal.

 

[Taylor]

I oppose forced labor everywhere.

 

[Zin]

I oppose forced labor everywhere.

Well... I don't mind people doing time doing "free" labor to help pay for their mistakes.

 

[Vlaude]

I agree with Syrus. Somewhere along the way a line has to be drawn between a punishment fitting a crime and violations of human rights. Some people like to think that since people end up in prison they have forfeit their ability to be human but thankfully international law does not abandon them that way. Prisoners do have rights! They are not automatically government slaves. China has been a notorious violator of human rights for as long as human rights have been significant. Some of these people have been imprisoned for reasons that would be considered extremely unjust in the free world. Now some people may say "well, what China does is China's business and should not be meddled with." Well, the good news for those people is that it probably won't be meddled with. However, world affairs has been the business of IGOs, such as the UN (which China is a permanent security council member of, go figure) since the Holocaust, so get over it.

 

[Taylor]

I oppose forced labor everywhere.

Well... I don't mind people doing time doing "free" labor to help pay for their mistakes.

What if their "mistakes" are political or religious dissidence? In China, a lot of folks are jailed for opposing human rights abuses, promoting democratic reforms, practicing falun gong, etc.

 

[Zin]

What if their "mistakes" are political or religious dissidence? In China, a lot of folks are jailed for opposing human rights abuses, promoting democratic reforms, practicing falun gong, etc.

I'm not a Born again Christian or a radical Muslim... I don't think it's my place to enforce my religious or political values on other people. They are criminals in the society in which they come from... I don't mind it if they make criminals work to pay off some of their debt from their mistakes.

 

[hen]

I'm not a Born again Christian or a radical Muslim... I don't think it's my place to enforce my religious or political values on other people. They are criminals in the society in which they come from... I don't mind it if they make criminals work to pay off some of their debt from their mistakes.

Many people live in a state, where they become 'criminals' for something you or I would take for granted.It is not always fair to be labelled a criminal by the regime who control the area that you live in.

 

[Taylor]

Liu says he was one of scores of prisoners forced to play online games to build up credits that prison guards would then trade for real money. The 54-year-old, a former prison guard who was jailed for three years in 2004 for "illegally petitioning" the central government about corruption in his hometown, reckons the operation was even more lucrative than the physical labour that prisoners were also forced to do . . .
. . . "If I couldn't complete my work quota, they would punish me physically. They would make me stand with my hands raised in the air and after I returned to my dormitory they would beat me with plastic pipes. We kept playing until we could barely see things," he said. Source.

No, I cannot support something like this, especially when it is applied to political dissidents.

 

[Lord Raven]

...I don't mind it if they make criminals work to pay off some of their debt from their mistakes.

Two points in rebuttal to this:

1. The man quoted in the article was imprisoned for complaining about corruption in his town. Yep, in China it's a crime to complain about the government, but this man does not fit any Western standard for a "criminal."

2. Playing the games isn't an official part of his punishment. He worked 12hrs digging trenches in a coal mine for China. It's the corrupt guards that are using their positions of power to force the inmates to do additional labor that only benefits the corrupt guards.

Personally, I don't have any reservation about making criminals work as part of their sentence, but this labor should count towards their punishment and be considered when they come up for parole/release. In this case, since the labor is forced by the corrupt guards, it is nothing less than explotation of the prisoners.

Yes, different places have different rules. Yes, some places don't acknowledge the basic human rights that many of us take for granted, but if you buy gold in ANY game, think of where it might have come from. If the guards have nobody to sell the gold to, then there is no profit for them. In the end, it's up to YOU. *points finger at you*

 

[Nexus]

Many people live in a state, where they become 'criminals' for something you or I would take for granted.It is not always fair to be labelled a criminal by the regime who control the area that you live in.

Who ever said laws were about fairness?

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Two points in rebuttal to this:

1. The man quoted in the article was imprisoned for complaining about corruption in his town. Yep, in China it's a crime to complain about the government, but this man does not fit any Western standard for a "criminal."

2. Playing the games isn't an official part of his punishment. He worked 12hrs digging trenches in a coal mine for China. It's the corrupt guards that are using their positions of power to force the inmates to do additional labor that only benefits the corrupt guards.

Personally, I don't have any reservation about making criminals work as part of their sentence, but this labor should count towards their punishment and be considered when they come up for parole/release. In this case, since the labor is forced by the corrupt guards, it is nothing less than explotation of the prisoners.

Yes, different places have different rules. Yes, some places don't acknowledge the basic human rights that many of us take for granted, but if you buy gold in ANY game, think of where it might have come from. If the guards have nobody to sell the gold to, then there is no profit for them. In the end, it's up to YOU. *points finger at you*

nice gloss over that HE WAS a former prison guard ... rolleyes:

DOH!

 

[Lord Raven]

nice gloss over that HE WAS a former prison guard ... rolleyes:

DOH!

Since you mention it, that would put him in a unique position to protest prison corruption wouldn't it? Glad to see you finally got around to actually reading the article.

I'm beginning to think you're my biggest fan on Stratics... you reply to almost every post I make. If I had t-shirts or mugs... I'd send you one!

 

[sqdlin]

i was hard to believe at the first time, but i still know that everything happened in the world. if this affair did not take place in China, i would in other countried in the world as well.
so as for the matter, i want to say that it is unacceptable.
as for the society, the world still need to improve and development.

 

[hen]

Free Ai Wei-Wei.

 

[Zin]

Two points in rebuttal to this:

1. The man quoted in the article was imprisoned for complaining about corruption in his town. Yep, in China it's a crime to complain about the government, but this man does not fit any Western standard for a "criminal."

Ok... Seems like a silly way to get jail time... but... Hey... It's against the law in China to do so...

The people are the government, even in China. Governments don't work without people. It's against the law, and the majority believe it's a worthy one. So... He is a criminal. Me not agreeing with them means they have my disdain, but not anything else.

2. Playing the games isn't an official part of his punishment. He worked 12hrs digging trenches in a coal mine for China. It's the corrupt guards that are using their positions of power to force the inmates to do additional labor that only benefits the corrupt guards.

Obviously that's not the case. If it was we would have never heard of this story.

Personally, I don't have any reservation about making criminals work as part of their sentence, but this labor should count towards their punishment and be considered when they come up for parole/release. In this case, since the labor is forced by the corrupt guards, it is nothing less than explotation of the prisoners.

That's an opinion. One I agree with... But it's still just an opinion. Your opinion, or mine, should not be a consideration for how a society wants to govern itself if we are not apart of that society.

Yes, different places have different rules. Yes, some places don't acknowledge the basic human rights that many of us take for granted, but if you buy gold in ANY game, think of where it might have come from. If the guards have nobody to sell the gold to, then there is no profit for them. In the end, it's up to YOU. *points finger at you*

*shrugs* I've only ever sold pixels for money in MMO's... Never bought. I just can't wrap my head around paying for pixels in a game outside of the monthly fee. Doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Zin]

I'm not a Born again Christian or a radical Muslim... I don't think it's my place to enforce my religious or political values on other people. They are criminals in the society in which they come from... I don't mind it if they make criminals work to pay off some of their debt from their mistakes.

Many people live in a state, where they become 'criminals' for something you or I would take for granted.It is not always fair to be labelled a criminal by the regime who control the area that you live in.

Fairness is the personal perception of a given stance/situation. As such: I'm not a Born again Christian or a radical Muslim... I don't think it's my place to enforce my religious or political values on other people.