Cheating Update?

[Lady Storm]

So you want EA to just ban wide spectrum, no double checking, no rights to the people who might not be. Sans the players on test who pvp on there and boast of cheating programs they are running. Im talking about the shelp who has just gotten a T1 con so close to the band station, new top gamer comp and all who flys on the ec client - this guy has no rights in yourbook even if his nose is super clean. He deserves a ban in your book cause he moved quicker then you.

Your UO gods right hand - you say its so so ban his Azz.. idk guy your awful powerfull if that is so.

 

[JC the Builder]

I think EA's intention is to disconnect players who are cheating at this time. They want you to stop using cheats. The problem is we haven't heard of anyone yet encountering this and we still see scripters in the game.

 

[Babble]

Pfff, there are no scripters!
Just autistic players who refuse to answer and go through their motions!

 

[Tina Small]

Back to the point at hand:

More over is the point that to "catch" these people that all want nailed to the cross of EA/Mythic, an burned to a crisp, have rights to be proven innocent or guilty. The legal department cost EA a bloody fortune and their advice is get the facts first, all the data and proof to seal their fate. PERIOD. Without it EA/Mythic doesnt have a leg to stand on legaly.
Lawsuits would cost $$$ if EA cant prove that big time pvp'r is infact using speedhack (or reasonable facsimile of any said illegal 3rd party program). Hard Evidence. Not just your word.

Sorry, but I think you're wrong about potential lawsuits by banned players and the need for EA to have air-tight proof that you violated the ToS.

Section 5(e) of the ToS says, "You, and anyone you authorize to use your Account and User ID on the Service, agree to follow the Rules of Conduct published by Electronic Arts. The Rules of Conduct may be found on the Web Site. The Rules of Conduct may change at Electronic Arts discretion, at any time. Electronic Arts reserves the right to terminate your Membership if it determines in its sole discretion that you have engaged in any impermissible conduct whether or not such conduct violates the Rules of Conduct." (My emphasis added.)

Also, Section 7 limits EA's liability as follows: "Electronic Arts PARTIES' ENTIRE LIABILITY TO YOU AND YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ANY BREACH OF ANY IMPLIED OR EXPRESS WARRANTY, OR FOR BREACH OF THIS AGREEMENT IS LIMITED SOLELY TO THE TOTAL AMOUNT PAID BY YOU FOR THE CD AND THE FEES PAID BY YOU TO Electronic Arts FOR THE SERVICE. BECAUSE SOME STATES OR COUNTRIES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CERTAIN DAMAGES, IN SUCH STATES OR COUNTRIES Electronic Arts', ITS SUBSIDIARIES' AND AFFILIATES' LIABILITY IS LIMITED TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW. " (Again, my emphasis added. Sorry for the all caps but that's the way EA wrote their Terms of Service.)

In addition, Section 8 of the ToS provides some pretty standard language about what happens if you decide to take them to court for breach of contract and you lose: "At Electronic Arts' request, you agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless The Electronic Arts Parties and their licensees, distributors, Content Providers and other Members of the Service, from all liabilities, claims and expenses, including attorneys' fees, arising from any breach of this Agreement by you. "

I just don't see how EA would end up spending millions in legal fees for court cases because people end up banned because they may or may not have been using unapproved third party programs. Assuming EA is putting any kind of effort at all into collecting some kind of evidence before they issue a ban, who in their right mind would take them to court and then try to tell the judge or magistrate, "Please, Your Honor, I swear I wasn't running anything I shouldn't have been running!!" How would a player actually prove that? What player would have any kind of records that confirm which programs they have running every single time they (or anyone else who uses their computer or accounts) play UO?

Basically, as a player, I don't think you really have any rights, Lady Storm. The ToS is pretty one-sided in EA's favor. At best, maybe you could screech and holler if your account is banned and perhaps have a slim chance of getting EA to refund your subscription fees and any CDs you bought, but I doubt they'd even do that. Nope, they can pretty much do whatever they think they need to do with regard to banning accounts. Whether that ends up helping the future of the game or hurting it may in large part depend on how well they do at picking accounts to ban and how current and potential players view their efforts.

P.S. Totally unrelated to your argument, Lady Storm, but possibly of interest to some is this language in Section 8 of the ToS: "PLEASE READ CAREFULLY. Electronic Arts MAY HOLD YOU RESPONSIBLE FOR DAMAGE YOU CAUSE TO OTHERS BY USING OUR SERVICE IN VIOLATION OF THIS AGREEMENT. " Not sure how far EA would go in terms of holding some responsible for the damage they caused others, but it's kind of an interesting idea to ponder.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

Sorry, but I think you're wrong about potential lawsuits by banned players and the need for EA to have air-tight proof that you violated the ToS.

Section 5(e) of the ToS says, "You, and anyone you authorize to use your Account and User ID on the Service, agree to follow the Rules of Conduct published by Electronic Arts. The Rules of Conduct may be found on the Web Site. The Rules of Conduct may change at Electronic Arts discretion, at any time. Electronic Arts reserves the right to terminate your Membership if it determines in its sole discretion that you have engaged in any impermissible conduct whether or not such conduct violates the Rules of Conduct." (My emphasis added.)

Also, Section 7 limits EA's liability as follows: "Electronic Arts PARTIES' ENTIRE LIABILITY TO YOU AND YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ANY BREACH OF ANY IMPLIED OR EXPRESS WARRANTY, OR FOR BREACH OF THIS AGREEMENT IS LIMITED SOLELY TO THE TOTAL AMOUNT PAID BY YOU FOR THE CD AND THE FEES PAID BY YOU TO Electronic Arts FOR THE SERVICE. BECAUSE SOME STATES OR COUNTRIES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CERTAIN DAMAGES, IN SUCH STATES OR COUNTRIES Electronic Arts', ITS SUBSIDIARIES' AND AFFILIATES' LIABILITY IS LIMITED TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW. " (Again, my emphasis added. Sorry for the all caps but that's the way EA wrote their Terms of Service.)

In addition, Section 8 of the ToS provides some pretty standard language about what happens if you decide to take them to court for breach of contract and you lose: "At Electronic Arts' request, you agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless The Electronic Arts Parties and their licensees, distributors, Content Providers and other Members of the Service, from all liabilities, claims and expenses, including attorneys' fees, arising from any breach of this Agreement by you. "

I just don't see how EA would end up spending millions in legal fees for court cases because people end up banned because they may or may not have been using unapproved third party programs. Assuming EA is putting any kind of effort at all into collecting some kind of evidence before they issue a ban, who in their right mind would take them to court and then try to tell the judge or magistrate, "Please, Your Honor, I swear I wasn't running anything I shouldn't have been running!!" How would a player actually prove that? What player would have any kind of records that confirm which programs they have running every single time they (or anyone else who uses their computer or accounts) play UO?

Basically, as a player, I don't think you really have any rights, Lady Storm. The ToS is pretty one-sided in EA's favor. At best, maybe you could screech and holler if your account is banned and perhaps have a slim chance of getting EA to refund your subscription fees and any CDs you bought, but I doubt they'd even do that. Nope, they can pretty much do whatever they think they need to do with regard to banning accounts. Whether that ends up helping the future of the game or hurting it may in large part depend on how well they do at picking accounts to ban and how current and potential players view their efforts.

P.S. Totally unrelated to your argument, Lady Storm, but possibly of interest to some is this language in Section 8 of the ToS: "PLEASE READ CAREFULLY. Electronic Arts MAY HOLD YOU RESPONSIBLE FOR DAMAGE YOU CAUSE TO OTHERS BY USING OUR SERVICE IN VIOLATION OF THIS AGREEMENT. " Not sure how far EA would go in terms of holding some responsible for the damage they caused others, but it's kind of an interesting idea to ponder.

In England it does not matter whats in the contract, if a English Judge thinks the contract is one sided and breaks the persons consummer rights, he can over turn the contract in favour of the customer.

 

[Lady Storm]

In England it does not matter whats in the contract, if a English Judge thinks the contract is one sided and breaks the persons consummer rights, he can over turn the contract in favour of the customer.

While Ill agree with you Tina I may not have rights as far as EA is cocerned. No matter how much money I pay them each month. I am just a number in the total the accounting department sends in the profets packet to the board.

EA can an has over the years used these sections of the TOS you quoted to do so to players, there have been cases where EA had to tuck its tail and abide by a judge or two. My point is very simple the CS, GM's and Dev follow a company wide set of rules in reguards of conduct to players.

I for one agree ban the cheats, just make sure they are cheating.