Cheating to Get Sewing Kits

[dlmaker]

Ok, I have a question for everyone. Lately I have seen barbed and horned for sale really cheap and in mass quantities. No matter how many horned kits he sells, this person has 50 or more on there the next day. In a week he has sold at least 400 hundred. Is there a cheat or a bug that this person has got to be using to get so many? I understand that people cycle through a lot of BODs, but I have never seen a person go through so many.

Can anyone tell me if he is cheating to get so many and to under cut all the other craftsmen? I don't want to know how to do the cheat if there is one, I just want to know if someone knows if this person is likely using one.

 

[UOKaiser]

Ok, I have a question for everyone. Lately I have seen barbed and horned for sale really cheap and in mass quantities. No matter how many horned kits he sells, this person has 50 or more on there the next day. In a week he has sold at least 400 hundred. Is there a cheat or a bug that this person has got to be using to get so many? I understand that people cycle through a lot of BODs, but I have never seen a person go through so many.

Can anyone tell me if he is cheating to get so many and to under cut all the other craftsmen? I don't want to know how to do the cheat if there is one, I just want to know if someone knows if this person is likely using one.

No there is no cheat. He's most likely a bod crafter and reseller like my self. Because of imbuing nobody really wants to buy our horned and barbed kits so we end up with many gathering dust. Other suppliers we buy it from lowered there prices to peanuts so we can always buy more than normal. Then we resell our personanly supplies and the ones we get from suppliers at cheaper prices which the suppliers themselves can't get rid of.

 

[dlmaker]

Ok, thanks for the info. I have been buying many of their kits because they are dirt cheap and I can always use them myself or resell them sometime in the future.

 

[Thunderz]

They might have a few accounts scripting bods 24/7, so yeah it "could" be a cheet in the way of using a 3rd party program.

Thunderz

 

[[JD]]

its probably a resource scripter on a trial acct. theres a dude who every day puts 20-30 pof on his vendor. barbed and horned kits on my server are super expensive. the market for dc runics has dried up

 

[Basara]

Uh, [JD] - it's been most of a year since trial accounts could get colored material, or do BODs.

It doesn't take a resource scripter to get 20-30 POF a day, if one started with a large supply of BODs to begin with. It just takes someone selling ingots, and the sale proceeds from the POF will keep him supplied.

There's about 375 different BODs (including 4 Iron large BODs) that have a 20% or 90% chance of Producing POF, and a 120 smith gets colored armor BODs (including those with no LBOD) 45% of the time. About 25-30% of colored small BODs have a potential for POF. (EX DC, all counts; EX Shadow 10 & 15; Normal Bronze 20, Normal Gold, all counts, normal Agapite, 10 & 15 count). So if even 1 in 10 pulls (which is a lowball figure) has potential for POF, and half are 20%'ers, 500 BODs a day would result in 50 potential POF BODs, and averaging 20-30 POF from turning those BODs in.

I'm not saying that the person isn't scripting the filling of the BODs (legally through in-game macros, or illegally), but simply that someone could spend 8 hours a day doing nothing but BODs (and that could include running multiple accounts, or a family working at a team, in much less time), and getting new BODs back in return (or even having a gentlemen's agreement with others providing POF at 70-90% of the final cost in order to not have the hassle of personally vending), that could easily produce that many POF.

 

[dlmaker]

Seriously though. How much scripting do you have to be doing to get as many horned kits as this guy does? Just picked up 57 more tonight.

 

[Basara]

I know that some people go around and buy every kit sold below their price, just to resell them. We had one of those jerks running an operation across all shards, that got banned a few years back (the burning houses), that ran prices for some small BODs up to more than what others were selling the LBOD's reward for.

It doesn't take a scripter to sell that many and restock, just a greedy speculator.

That said, it's also possible the person might have been one of those guys who ran books full of full LBODs back and forth through transfers, and manipulating the trip to cause a duplication. After a half dozen trips with that exploit, you could turn about 100 filled LBODs into the maximum amount one could transfer at a time (between 4350 and 4500, depending on if you had expanded bank storage on the account). Each trip afterward would potentially generate up to that many again.

Of course, it was probably rare that more than a few hundred BODs were done at a time in that era (old EM items now market-flooded with the champ replicas, and other high-end items usually made up 70-90% of the cargo being duped). When the bug was fixed, some people managed to escape detection with their stores of filled BODs - and others have found other means to exploit. The BOD changes over 2 years ago made getting the higher rewards easier, meaning that as the reward prices dropped, people started hoarding legitimate and duped runics (Some from the odd belief that runics were not worth the effort anymore, others knowing that their uses with Imbuing to make base items and things to unravel would eventually dry up the supply).

Ask around on Atlantic - see if there's anyone complaining that someone's constantly buying out their runic vendor (other than that one megastore), and if there's more than one person getting hit, it's probably the person you're buying from buying THEM out.

 

[wanderer1origin]

basara the burning houses where more into resource gatherers from what i saw
bods where a second level for them this times shards i played


though heart wood scripts played into it a bit

I know that some people go around and buy every kit sold below their price, just to resell them. We had one of those jerks running an operation across all shards, that got banned a few years back (the burning houses), that ran prices for some small BODs up to more than what others were selling the LBOD's reward for.

It doesn't take a scripter to sell that many and restock, just a greedy speculator.

That said, it's also possible the person might have been one of those guys who ran books full of full LBODs back and forth through transfers, and manipulating the trip to cause a duplication. After a half dozen trips with that exploit, you could turn about 100 filled LBODs into the maximum amount one could transfer at a time (between 4350 and 4500, depending on if you had expanded bank storage on the account). Each trip afterward would potentially generate up to that many again.

Of course, it was probably rare that more than a few hundred BODs were done at a time in that era (old EM items now market-flooded with the champ replicas, and other high-end items usually made up 70-90% of the cargo being duped). When the bug was fixed, some people managed to escape detection with their stores of filled BODs - and others have found other means to exploit. The BOD changes over 2 years ago made getting the higher rewards easier, meaning that as the reward prices dropped, people started hoarding legitimate and duped runics (Some from the odd belief that runics were not worth the effort anymore, others knowing that their uses with Imbuing to make base items and things to unravel would eventually dry up the supply).

Ask around on Atlantic - see if there's anyone complaining that someone's constantly buying out their runic vendor (other than that one megastore), and if there's more than one person getting hit, it's probably the person you're buying from buying THEM out.

 

[Basara]

On LA, my alliance had about a half-dozen people selling resources and runics at their houses, and the same character associated with that player's house would buy out both categories of items.

You misunderstand completely what I was saying about the BODs.

Those that sold duped RUNICS, used duping books of completed LBODs as the means of duping, whenever possible. after all, a book of 49 LBODs counts as 10 items and only 1 weight, for purposes of cargo when cross-sharding, and cross-sharding was the mechanism used by most duping methods. A book of filled LBODs allowed more items to be taken per duing trip, and in addition, the act of claiming the reward from the BOD "laundered" the origin of the item further, as the BOD might have been in a duped book, but the item resulting from the redeemed BOD was brand new, with no obvious taint (and the duped item no longer exists to be traced).

 

[UOKaiser]

Hey not greedy. Us resellers barely get profit. Many of us like myself are suppliers+resellers. Just because we sell things higher doesn't mean anything. No regular user will buy so much from the people selling it so they need people that buy large amounts to overcome rental ,effort and vender fees.

Either way most of us resellers have dedicated suppliers. Suppliers are just people who produce large or small amount of the products. Many sell on there venders some sell directly. A reseller has usually a few large suppliers or as many as 50 small ones producing.

Imagine 50 players making maybe 10 horn kits a week. A reseller will be able to get 500 horn kits from them. they will not know each other but it just needs the reseller. Now he only makes like 5k-10k gold per each one so even though he got so many 500 kits in the week he only makes 2.5-5mil of all of them. Nothing compare to the supplier. Once again a supplier is anybody who makes or gathers goods without spending gold. So thats most people.

 

[Pandaros]

Yes, but the shop that dlmaker is referring to, has a constant supply of very low price kits. Out of the 50 people in your example, most would not get a barbed kit in a month let alone a week and when they did I would expect them to try to sell it themselves (e.g. on stratics trade forums) rather than just sell it to a reseller at such a low price. I agree with Basara's math when it comes to getting PoF - it's not so difficult. But barbed kits are another story.

So is it the case here that the reseller managed to convince 50 people to sell their barbed kits at a ridiculously low price?

 

[UOKaiser]

Yes, but the shop that dlmaker is referring to, has a constant supply of very low price kits. Out of the 50 people in your example, most would not get a barbed kit in a month let alone a week and when they did I would expect them to try to sell it themselves (e.g. on stratics trade forums) rather than just sell it to a reseller at such a low price. I agree with Basara's math when it comes to getting PoF - it's not so difficult. But barbed kits are another story.

So is it the case here that the reseller managed to convince 50 people to sell their barbed kits at a ridiculously low price?

The 50 players usually don't want the hassle of paying vender fees,managing a vender etc.. Some of my suppliers come from new players during the years that I have trained and helped with in there poor days. Also it take time to meet up with people and form a relationship with them in trading. This is usually the hardest part that comes with time but playing 13 years or even 5+years you develop many friends connections etc. To get your suppliers. But aside that most suppliers find it easier like this and more profitable.
They can ether leave there item on a vender for weeks at a time hoping it sell at a high price or sell everything instantly to a reseller in minutes for a lower price. They are making pure profit from it so they can lower it without losing. Some lower it by only 10k per which they are only losing really vender fees and upkeeps and time some other lower it by 50-100k. All depends on the supplier. Not to mention the trade forums here sucks, takes too long and not all Uo players know about stratics.

Now barbed kits are ridiculous easy to get especialy with probability of bumping up. It's all about having a library when it comes to bods. 10 barbed kits are a low amount a week if you have libraries. If you have a player that does like 1-10 bods a day then yea i can see how it's impossible for them. But many players are dedicated boders with huge libraries. I myself have a huge library that am proud of. I can chung high end hammers and barbed kits in short amount of time.

Once your suppliers are found and set it's all a matter of using huge amounts of gold to buy different products and reselling them for small profit.
The guy in this scenerio probably has some suppliers,transfers from other shards probably asian shards and huge amounts of stored kits. He will only run out once people buy the kits faster than he can get them or prices lower under what he can get them for.

I suggest the OP or OP and his friends talk to him instead of competing with him and ask him if you can buy out all his kits directly like that you can resell his supply and bring the price back to desire amount.

 

[Basara]

Just give an idea of a SMALL BOD library - my own.

Tailor BODs:

I keep 1-4 BOD sets on hand of EVERY small BOD that goes to a Barbed Kit, Horned Kit or CBD, separated into books by LBOD type. In the case of Barbed Leather LBODs, I'm more likely to have incomplete sets with an LBOD (or multiples!). I also keep similar sets of spined kit smalls, but don't actively fill them currently (I have 50+ kits on hand). This works out to about 500-700 smalls, in said sets, not counting the 300 or so cloth BODs.

The BODs over and above those in my library, that would fit these, go into books on my vendors - not for storage, but for sale. They rarely sell, even at 2000 or 3000 each, and if I get a large BOD for a good reward, I fill it from the vendors first, if possible.

When I was actively cranking through BODs, I'd fill 100-200 small BODs (mostly normal cloth & leather that I could fill through buying, minimizing resource consumption/costs). I would get about the same number of BODs back, about with about 1 in 5 being one to potentially go into one of my library or vendor books. After throwing away the bone BODs, the rest of the BODs go into the next day's turn-in pile (or, I can just turn around and fill them again). Each 100 BODs will typically have 3-5 Larges for rewards that are keepers (and a few that are absolute junk - it averages out an 8% chance that any given Tailor BOD drop is a large).

Once you get to a BOD collection that size, with about 10-20 new BODs a day (even 0.1 skill ones that only get small normal hat BODs can help you get there, but I use 6 Tailors that are eligible for the full spectrum of BODs), the amount of BODs in your permanent library gets almost self-sustaining, with new BODs replacing the ones used.

So, figure that you can get 3-5 good rewards a day per 100 BODs turned in, as most small BODs pulled from those 3-4 sets per LBOD type will be replaced by the smalls from the BOD cycling.

One of the best sessions I ever had was turning in 200 small BODs, and coming up with the larges for 4 Barbed kits and 7 Horned kits, as well as 4 CBDs, plus the smalls needed to finish 2 other Barbed kit larges I'd been missing the last small for (Barbed leather). I also ended up with another 100+ smalls to fill for new BODs (though 1/3 were exceptional smalls, that I had to craft items to fill, or for things like Bonnets, surcoats, full aprons or body sashes, that aren't for sale).

If you can keep up with the boredom and hand cramps, that base library size can keep you reasonably in runics - and the amount of runics is limited only by the time you wish to put into it (as it takes about 60-90 minutes to fill 100 BODs, and another 30 minutes to turn them in, get replacement BODs, and sort the replacement BODs).


I'll actually give you a diagram of my Tailor BOD collection, to give you an idea of what to shoot for. This is not counting cloth BODs, and most of my "for sale" BODs.

Regular leather

Bone EX x20 = 4 x 5 smalls
Studded EX x20 = 4 x 5 smalls
Male Normal x20 = 4 x 6 smalls
Male EX x10 = 4 x 6 smalls
Male EX x15 = 4 x 6 smalls
Female Normal x20 = 4 x 6 smalls
Female EX x10 = 4 x 6 smalls
Female EX x15 = 4 x 6 smalls

Total: 184 smalls

Spined Leather
Bone EX x10 = 4 x 5 smalls
Bone EX x20 = 4 x 5 smalls
Studded EX x10 = 4 x 5 smalls
Studded EX x20 = 4 x 5 smalls
Male Normal x10 = 4 x 6 smalls
Male Normal x20 = 4 x 6 smalls
Male EX x20 = 4 x 6 smalls*
Female Normal x10 = 4 x 6 smalls
Female Normal x20 = 4 x 6 smalls
Female EX x20 = 4 x 6 smalls*

Total: 224

* These are the easiest 100% Barbed kit sets to get smalls for, as the weird setup for Tailor BODs makes Spined BODs actually more common than normal leather. Having gotten 2 of the same large in 1 100-ish BOD turn-in before, for these, I make sure to keep extras on hand (and even pre-fill some of the components, if my BOD runners can get gains on the parts).

Horned Leather: Here, it becomes hard, for some reason, to get more sets than 2 of the 5-parters. It SHOULDN'T be (every small BOD type is SUPPOSED to be equally common, after material type is selected), but I can get 5 sets of any 6-part horned in the time it takes to get 2 sets of the equivalent 5-parter.

Footwear EX 20: 2 sets of 4 smalls (these are a lot more rarer than one would think - STILL haven't actually managed to get an LBOD to fill)
Bone Normal x20 = 2 x 5 smalls
Bone EX x10 = 2 x 5 smalls
Bone EX x15 = 2 x 5 smalls
Studded Normal x20 = 2 x 5 smalls
Studded EX x10 = 2 x 5 smalls
Studded EX x15 = 2 x 5 smalls
Male Normal x10 = 4 x 6 smalls
Male Normal x15 = 4 x 6 smalls
Male EX x10 = 4 x 6 smalls
Male EX x15 = 4 x 6 smalls
Male EX x20 = 4 x 6 smalls
Female Normal x10 = 4 x 6 smalls
Female Normal x15 = 4 x 6 smalls
Female EX x10 = 4 x 6 smalls
Female EX x15 = 4 x 6 smalls
Female EX x20 = 4 x 6 smalls

Total: 308 smalls

Barbed Leather: Most of these are TARGETS. Barbed smalls are so rare you're hard pressed to ever get 2 sets ready, before the equivalent large falls into your lap - and sometimes have to wait weeks for a small to finish a large you do get...

Footwear EX x10: 1 set x 4 smalls (too hard to even try for more)
Bone Normal x20 = 2 x 5 smalls
Bone EX x10 = 2 x 5 smalls
Bone EX x20 = 2 x 5 smalls
Studded Normal x20 = 2 x 5 smalls
Studded EX x10 = 2 x 5 smalls
Studded EX x20 = 2 x 5 smalls
Male Normal x20 = 2 x 6 smalls
Male EX x10 = 2 x 6 smalls
Male EX x15 = 2 x 6 smalls
Male EX x20 = 2 x 6 smalls
Female Normal x20 = 2 x 6 smalls
Female EX x10 = 2 x 6 smalls
Female EX x15 = 2 x 6 smalls
Female EX x20 = 2 x 6 smalls

Total: 160

Grand total: 716 Normal-Horned, plus a target of an additional 160 Barbed, for a total size of 876.

Build up to something resembling this kind of library, and then spend 3-4 hours a day filling, turning in and claiming 100+ smalls a day, and soon you will be awash in rewards.

 

[dlmaker]

Well it took 5 more days since he stocked it last. 83 new horned kits tonight. Also, I doubt he buys them off other vendors because he sells them cheaper than any other vendor in game. Everyone, thanks for the information though.