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[Carpentry] Catastrophically fail

CorwinXX

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
I have just lost an item on enchanting attempt. It was 7-7-3-9-9 - just 10 points in physical and cold - very rare one.
I didn't thought I can lose a non-imbued exceptionally crafted armor piece while enchanting.
Could anyone give me a link to probability of fails?


P.S. I've spent 2k barks (estimate the time needed) to craft the complete set. The fail was really catastrophic.
 

CorwinXX

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
I have made another one (8-8-3-8-8) and some other parts... and it's a catastrophically fail again.
 
K

Kralock

Guest
If you pof the item all the way up it mostly if it fails just takes durabilty however the only way to be at 100% is to use a forged metal of artifacts.
 

Basara

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Not sure where you got that idea from.

Most items are, at most, 30% chance of being enhanced, and that's with no special properties and an even distribution of exceptional bonuses.

From the Stratics Enhancing calculator (Which is made based on information given to Stratics and Tower of Roses by devs ranging from Hanse to Draconi)


The following formulae are used in the calculation of the success chances:

- All Resistances: Failure % = 20 + Current Resistance
- Durability: Failure % = 20 + ( Current Max. Durability / 40 )
- Lower Requirements: Failure % = 20 + ( Current Lower Requirements% / 4 )
- Luck: Failure % = 30 + ( Current Luck / 2 )
Drop all decimals from the calculations.

The Failure Chances are checked for each property you are trying to enhance on the item.

The Failure Chance is lowered by 1% for each property at GM skill and another 1% for every 10 skillpoints above GM. *

So enhancing a piece of armor with 10 in each resistance with Verite would give you 5 checks with each 30% chance of failure, or 70% chance of success, which in the end amounts to a success chance of about 16% (70%*70%*70%*70%*70%).

The chance of breaking an item is about 10% lower than the failure chance for each property that is enhanced.

Only your skill level and the number of properties you are trying to enhance and their original value affects the success chance. The magnitude of the properties you are adding has no effect on the success chance.
An armor piece that is 7/7/3/9/9 that is being enhanced with material that adds to all 5 resists has a chance of SUCCESS of only about 20-25% (depending on the enhancer's skill) - where the base resists come from (magical loot, runics, imbuing or exceptional bonuses) has no bearing on the success chance.
 

Lorax_Pacific

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I used to spend a week and a half making a suit just for the crafting part due to the low percent chance. Depending on the enhance most of my pieces were measured to be around 12% chance as I kept track of it all in a spreadsheet. I would spend a couple weeks up front getting all the raw materials. I decided $10 bucks on the forged tool is worth the month of crafting work to get a suit made.

-Lorax
 

CorwinXX

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
From the Stratics Enhancing calculator (Which is made based on information given to Stratics and Tower of Roses by devs ranging from Hanse to Draconi)
I have read this page and can't understand why chances are so different for different materials. The calculator can show me from 6% to 44% fail for the same item and the same skill.
 

CorwinXX

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
I decided $10 bucks on the forged tool is worth the month of crafting work to get a suit made.
-Lorax
Crafting directly from Frostwood is cheaper.
I though that crafting from normal wood then enchant would be cheaper but now I'm not sure.

I think I will try to crfat from Frostwood. What should I do with thouse 15k worth frostwood pieces that I needn't? Just throw them to a trash box? Are there any other possibility?
 

CorwinXX

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Not sure where you got that idea from.
I red somewhere on this forum about 'expensive post-imbue enchanting' and 'cheap pre-imbue enchanting'. Also I did some quick tests (about 15 attempts) and never failed. But tests were with weapon and leather armor.
 

Basara

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Part of the confusion is from there being two parts of failure, and failure being something rolled against multiple times...

If you had an item that was 10/10/10/10/10 and were enhancing it with something that changes all 5 resist properties, the chance of it failing is

A. 30% on Physical
B. If A does not fail, then Fire is checked (30% failure)
C. If both A & B do not fail, then Cold is checked (30%)
D. If A-C do not fail, then Poison is checked (30%)
E. If A-D do not fail, then Energy is checked.

So, the chance of a successful enhancement in this case requires 5 checks.

So this works out the chance of failure (at 100 skill) is
30% + (30%*70%) + (30%*70%*70%) + (30%*70%*70%*70%) + (30%*70%*70%*70%*70%)

or

30% + 21% + 14.7% + 10.29% + 7.203% = 82.993% chance of failure (both catastrophic and failure where the item survives, combined).

The chance of a catastrophic failure (CF) is a function of the failure chances. The chance of CF appears to be roughly 3/5 to 5/9 of the total failure chance. My guess is that the checks for catastrophic failure are made each part of the enhance step, so that there are a bunch of smaller individual checks for CF instead of one at the final step - and I suspect that even if the failure is at the first step, that all possible failure/CF checks are still made.

Checks are also only made for properties that change values, which makes Spined much easier to enhance with than other materials, as only checks for luck and physical resist are made, so long as luck is low to start (in fact, it takes about 75 luck on something with all-5s resists for a spined enhance to be as difficult as a horned or barbed enhance of the same item). Woods, most metals, and the other two leathers, add to 4 to 6 properties (only DC adds to as few as 3) - Each additional property that changes value introduces a significant reduction in success, regardless of how much the property changes.

I'm going to see about getting the full numbers added to the descriptions under the calculator as to how the failure chance gets broken into the "Breaks" and (unlisted on the Stratics calculator, but shown on ToR) "fails but survives" segments.
 

Basara

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I think that the persons saying the formula for durability is wrong, are the ones in the wrong.

Durability is ONLY supposed to be checked when it changes as a result of the enhance. Period.

On the other hand, it's also possible that it might be coded that if you POF an item up to 255, and you enhance with a property that would increase durability, that the success/fail/break chance might get skipped. However, few other systems work that way, and those were the result of fixes of oversights in the property system (DI under Exceptional counting as a runic property and being lost on weapons, and mage armor on leather - both of which took a year or more to get fixed).
Dev descriptions of Weapon Enhancing for elemental damage (the closest analogue to this) indicated in the past that even if you enhance something with room for the last 20% elemental damage, with Valorite (which can change up to 4 values in the elemental damage property, if there's room), the failure/break checks for all 4 potential changes are made even if only one property changes.
 

Lorax_Pacific

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Crafting directly from Frostwood is cheaper.
I though that crafting from normal wood then enchant would be cheaper but now I'm not sure.

I think I will try to crfat from Frostwood. What should I do with thouse 15k worth frostwood pieces that I needn't? Just throw them to a trash box? Are there any other possibility?
You can get 45 cleanup points for it, but you should only claim clean-up points on one character. Maybe they added these since we couldn't recycle them any other way.

My experience was that it was easier to get wood so make the 15k wood pieces and then enhance with the forged tool. Then again most of my pieces I craft now are pof'ed, imbued and then enhanced using the forged tool to exceed the imbuing caps. If you want to use the frostwood it may make more sense to turn it in for cooperative collections, which I forget the reward is it M&S glasses?

Stratics doesn't show that the enhancing was changed for the new wood types. If you are enhancing and something will apply DI, luck, HCI, etc and the item already has that property then that property associated with the maximum of the property plays into the success chance. This statement is gathered from experience and I didn't perform the statistics leg work to system analyze the formula. This is mostly learned from bowcraft enhancing, which I only use the forged tool now to enhance.

-Lorax
 

CorwinXX

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
My experience was that it was easier to get wood so make the 15k wood pieces and then enhance with the forged tool.
I was going to make a cheap suit using recources I've already got (I thought enchanting success depends on item intesity). I didn't want to spend additional 8m (?). But as a result I was forced to spend additional 2m for frostwood and bark fragments and I didn't have enough gold to buy Mace&Shield (wich should be a part of my suit). So instead of testing my new suit I should go to farm gold now. :)
I think it's no sence to spend a forged tool for a frostwood post-imbue enchanted armor when you can use a boards with additional mods.

p.s. I was going to get 70/70/70/70/75 just with 2 imbues. But I continued losing all best pieces (like 7-7-3-9-9) so I made 70/70/70/68/75. Since M&Sh has 25 physical and a woodland piece has 5 physical you need items with two low resists (physical and cold). Add here that they should excelently compliment each other and the task looks almost impossible (or more expencive than using the tool).
 

Gorbs

Sage
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Stratics Legend
Yes, you can apply POF after enhancing an item with special material. You cannot apply POF after imbuing the item.

The artist accepts boards from community collections. His reward is the Reading Glasses of the Arts. I don't know anyone that wants those. However, you can trade your boards to him to buy the trinkets (birds of brit, grammer of orcish, primer on arms, treatise on alchemy).
 

Ezekiel Zane

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Honestly, the Forged Tool artifact is worth the cost. I've catastrophically failed enhancing some really really awesome pieces over the years.

All they need to do now is make it so that it's available in game. It could be either a rechargeable veteran reward or a gold sink or both.
 
S

Sevin0oo0

Guest
Most items are, at most, 30% chance of being enhanced
So a 70% chance of FAIL? yuck!
Guessing that holds about the same w/ smithy as well? maybe especially after imbuing? Sure changes my whole strategy.
of lately, everything I'd tried to enhance, as the last step, went poof - maybe i've always just been lucky in the past.
 

CorwinXX

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Smith has better chances because he can have 180 skill and carpenter can have just 100 skill.
 
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