Can you get banned for killing fighters in Jhelom Pits?

[Glacier-GL]

Just getting around to playing again.

Was wondering around today and saw 3 people in the Jhelom Pits with fighters trying to gain skill while not responding, assuming AFK. Killed all the fighters, came back 5 mins later only one of the 3 had even moved.

Made me wonder, is an action such as this considered "griefing", and is it bannable? What if I see someone working on a golem while afk or something, can I invis them?

Thanks.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Killing the fighters I don't think is an issue as any NPC is freely attackable by any player, but invising another player under those circumstances is griefing for sure.

 

[o2bavr6]

In Tram you cant invis it, the game wont let you.

In Fel you can do what you want. Not sure if it would be conisdered griefing invising someone in Fel.

 

[Connor_Graham]

In Tram you cant invis it, the game wont let you.

You can invis another player in Tram.

 

[o2bavr6]

You can invis another player in Tram.

I meant the Golem...

I didnt think you could invis the Golem.. Can you?

 

[Connor_Graham]

I meant the Golem...

I didnt think you could invis the Golem.. Can you?

I believe you can, although I've never tried. It's no different than any other pet, and pets can be invised.

 

[o2bavr6]

I believe you can, although I've never tried. It's no different than any other pet, and pets can be invised.

hmmm. I didn't think you could do those kinds of things in Tram.

Does this apply to Dispel? Can I Dispel you summon in Tram? I didn't think so, so i figured invising fell under the same rules.

 

[o2bavr6]

I believe you can, although I've never tried. It's no different than any other pet, and pets can be invised.

I guess that I should have just stayed out of this responce since I almost exclusively play Fel

 

[Gildar]

Hunting fighters in Jhelom? Just fine.
Following somebody around killing things (or taking other actions) to prevent them from training their characters (even if they're violating rules themselves)? Physical harassment.
Fighting anything without being at your computer? Unattended macroing.

 

[Glacier-GL]

Okay thank you for the replies. Just wanted to make sure I was okay.

 

[Lord Kynd]

Okay thank you for the replies. Just wanted to make sure I was okay.

the person also might not have wanted to talk to you, and when you came back was patiently waiting for a GM to complain about you...
never know
unlikly however

but the rule has always been , if it moves it's free to kill , no one own's any spawn to themselves, cept maybe peerless soloer's

in Tram you can not lure onto another player , this is considered griefing, also invising them or there pet's.

 

[Simon Francis]

Just getting around to playing again.

Was wondering around today and saw 3 people in the Jhelom Pits with fighters trying to gain skill while not responding, assuming AFK. Killed all the fighters, came back 5 mins later only one of the 3 had even moved.

Made me wonder, is an action such as this considered "griefing", and is it bannable? What if I see someone working on a golem while afk or something, can I invis them?

Thanks.

Anything and everything can be considered griefing in trammel if they ask you to stop. You have to watch your back, it is a very dangerous place if you value your account.

 

[Lady-Tor]

But you can invis people to help them. The other day this guy was in Painted Caves. He seemed to be having a problem talking so i decided to help him out by sitting there and keeping him invis. When i got tired of keeping him nice and safe a guild member came and took over for me. He seemed to be stuck on some loop casting consicrate wep. I paged a GM cos i was so worried about him, but they didnt seem to think he needed help. Oh well, ill keep trying.

 

[Glacier-GL]

Yeah, they never asked me to stop and I'm still here so guess I'm okay.

 

[christy1221]

Yeah, they never asked me to stop and I'm still here so guess I'm okay.

I doubt they were there. There are scriptors everywhere now. It's really sad.

 

[Mechanic]

Fighting anything without being at your computer? Unattended macroing.

does this apply if you are in dog form and have HP regen armor on?

because its not macroing to just be standing there

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

does this apply if you are in dog form and have HP regen armor on?

because its not macroing to just be standing there

If you're using HP Regen and auto-defend to fight in an area of low power monsters (i.e. Level 1 Despise lizardmen for 10th anniversary artifacts), then yes, it DOES count as unattended macroing.

Your character must be doing NOTHING to NOT be unattended macroing if you want to be AFK for a bit... otherwise... log out.

 

[Edina Monsoon]

You can get banned for anything, so just log in, look around and log out.

"I don't want more things, sweetie, I want better things"

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Gee...Imagine that, another how can I legally be a prick thread. Nope, wasnt me so lets scratch that assumption...but how many times do we have to read this crap?

Cmon people, did you ever consider that perhaps the person was sitting there but on the phone? Perhaps they got up quick to get a beverage? Maybe they had to poop!!!

Whatever the reason does it make you a better person to be a jerk to someone? Is this game so frigging far gone that the postings here end up all being about *oh but I AM innocent* or *whoops...I invised your golem by accident!*. Jesus, have some respect for your fellow players and take responsibility for your actions.

If you have to come here to ask if something is legal then it probably isnt, and if you have to come here and ask if doing something to a player is ok then you are looking for attention or else just being a butthole.

@ the OP...how would you feel if I snuck in your house and pooped on your dinner table while you were grabbing milk? If I did it without getting caught its OK right? I mean...there are no rules that say I cant poop on your table. Right? You play this game too, and its never proper to poop where you eat..rule or no rule. DUH!

 

[Edina Monsoon]

I was going to reply to this thread, but I have to go poop now.

"I don't want more things, sweetie, I want better things"

 

[Llewen]

Gee...Imagine that, another how can I legally be a prick thread. Nope, wasnt me so lets scratch that assumption...but how many times do we have to read this crap?

Cmon people, did you ever consider that perhaps the person was sitting there but on the phone? Perhaps they got up quick to get a beverage? Maybe they had to poop!!!

Whatever the reason does it make you a better person to be a jerk to someone? Is this game so frigging far gone that the postings here end up all being about *oh but I AM innocent* or *whoops...I invised your golem by accident!*. Jesus, have some respect for your fellow players and take responsibility for your actions.

If you have to come here to ask if something is legal then it probably isnt, and if you have to come here and ask if doing something to a player is ok then you are looking for attention or else just being a butthole.

@ the OP...how would you feel if I snuck in your house and pooped on your dinner table while you were grabbing milk? If I did it without getting caught its OK right? I mean...there are no rules that say I cant poop on your table. Right? You play this game too, and its never proper to poop where you eat..rule or no rule. DUH!

How about, abide by the TOS and you have nothing to worry about? If you have to go sit on the toilet for twenty minutes, you should log out. If he had time to kill all their warriors without evoking a response, they were obviously training skills afk, if you pretend they were doing something else, you are either not very bright, or dishonest - you choose.

If you can't abide by the TOS, you shouldn't be playing the game. You gotta love how the cheaters try to turn things upside down and make the honest players the bad guys. Yes, cheating damages the game, and it damages the community, if you want me to write a long essay about it, I'll be glad to explain it to you.

Yes cheating is every honest player's business, and yes they should page on cheaters every chance they get, which is what he should have done instead of killing the warriors. If you can't play the game without cheating, you don't belong in the game, period.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

How about, abide by the TOS and you have nothing to worry about? If you have to go sit on the toilet for twenty minutes, you should log out. If he had time to kill all their warriors without evoking a response, they were obviously training skills afk, if you pretend they were doing something else, you are either not very bright, or dishonest - you choose.

If you can't abide by the TOS, you shouldn't be playing the game. You gotta love how the cheaters try to turn things upside down and make the honest players the bad guys. Yes, cheating damages the game, and it damages the community, if you want me to write a long essay about it, I'll be glad to explain it to you.

Yes cheating is every honest player's business, and yes they should page on cheaters every chance they get, which is what he should have done instead of killing the warriors. If you can't play the game without cheating, you don't belong in the game, period.

Pardon me, but I dont need to chet to play. However I do and always have thought it was rediculous how people try to police others every little move. If you feel the need to chastize and group me under this umbrella then UO really is going to hell, as I just stuck up for peoples rights to play as they do...unimpeded by others.

Before you go off into another tangent about how I did something wrong perhaps you might consider there are individuals like myself out there who advocate the rights and privaledges of others. I Dont have to do something wrong in order to express my thoughts about something do I? Flip things around much...I really dont know how to respond to this beyond the usual *are you on a witch hunt comment*?

BTW...I dont respond to people in this game unless I have had prior contact with them either in game, vent, or ICQ. If I dont know you, chances are I dont want to GET to know you. You mention loggin out...well alright miss I follow all the rules to a friggin tee...but some situations require immediate consideration.

A crying child, a knock at the door, a honk of the horn, a fire alarm going off, a phone call....these are all VERY REASONABLE reasons to leave the game for a bit AFK without logging. I think people ought to spend more time worrying about thier own actions rather than those of others. Too many GOOD DECENT people have left because of the actions of a few arrogant buttholes.

FYI...I dont cheat, if I macro I do it AT THE KEYBOARD, and I spend my free time helping new players out in the game (new players are often referred to me via ICQ so I help them out)...so I suggest you clear your head of your assumptions and pay attention to the people who are actaully ruining this game. Giving me hell *just because I responded* in the fashoin I did is bullsheet...hopefully you see this now.

 

[Eslake]

However I do and always have thought it was rediculous how people try to police others every little move.

Because EA is doing such a good job policing them?

Face it, if it weren't for players clueing them in when people are cheating, they would never know. Every dupe that was ever used in the game was turned in by one player or another.


If you see someone shoplifting are you just being a prick if you tell the store owner? Or are you doing what is right?


It is true, that many on these forums have always seemed to side with those cheating over those who want something done about it. The first and most obvious conclusion to be drawn from that is that they themselves are cheating too.
Whether it be true or not, it is the Rational conclusion.

If we ignore the guy UMing swords on his golem, why should we turn in the neighbor who's duping? They're both violating the same TOS in the same game after all.

Cheating is cheating.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Cheating is cheating eh? So you think it is ok to invis someone golem training? This is also against the TOS, as is griefing another player in Trammel. Griefing can be desribed as an act which negatively influences another characters gameplay. If you are killing his *trainers* then you are in my mind griefing, or harrassing the other player.

So basically you are telling me that two wrongs make it right? Its ok for you to step over the line because you *think* someone else is cheating? Go ahead and tell a GM if you think they are cheating, but if you hop over the line between that moment and GM intervention you too are breaking the TOS.

Think about things first next time if you would, and consider the consequences of your actions in game. I try to keep the good people playing, I dont try to get them to leave.

 

[Thrand Graywolf]

Does this apply to Dispel? Can I Dispel you summon in Tram? I didn't think so, so i figured invising fell under the same rules.

Depends. If you are guilded/allied/at war then there is very little difference between Trammel and Fel. Guildmates and allies accidentally dispel my nature's furies all the time.

If you're blue, then no, can't dispel.

 

[Llewen]

A crying child, a knock at the door, a honk of the horn, a fire alarm going off, a phone call....these are all VERY REASONABLE reasons to leave the game for a bit AFK without logging.

"for a bit" is the key here. It is pretty clear from the op that these people were afk for more than "a bit".

FYI...I dont cheat, if I macro I do it AT THE KEYBOARD...

Funny, I've seen thousands, quite literally, of people that were obviously cheating in the game, in one way or another, but everyone that posts on these forums is as clean as the driven snow, each with half a dozen character witnesses, and a stein full of righteous indignation, as solid proof...

I have no idea whether you specifically cheat or not, but you are pretty vocally defending obvious cheaters here, and attacking people who think that behaviour is a problem, so that kinda puts you on that side of the fence, now doesn't it?

 

[CroakerTnT]

Just kill the macroers. Job done.

 

[Omnius]

It's simply not worth being on the same screen as someone else outside of your friends or guildmates in trammel. Better safe than sorry. You can get banned for just about anything and the language spewed by those who know you can't shut them up is deplorable.

 

[Tycolby]

Just kill the macroers. Job done.

Have to agree here. Kill them all and let the wandering healers sort them out.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

"for a bit" is the key here. It is pretty clear from the op that these people were afk for more than "a bit".



Funny, I've seen thousands, quite literally, of people that were obviously cheating in the game, in one way or another, but everyone that posts on these forums is as clean as the driven snow, each with half a dozen character witnesses, and a stein full of righteous indignation, as solid proof...

I have no idea whether you specifically cheat or not, but you are pretty vocally defending obvious cheaters here, and attacking people who think that behaviour is a problem, so that kinda puts you on that side of the fence, now doesn't it?

So now I am under scrutiny for defending the concept of love thy neighbor? **** off you nitwit, beyond stating my opinion of griefing I dont stick up for those whom break the ruleset. MY whole point is we have the help system to fall back on, and if you dont use it you are breaking the same TOS you agreed to follow by griefing another player.

Want to know my WHY I feel the way I do? Well a year and a half ago I woke up after a seizure to find myself in jail, put there for beiing AFK while golem training. Now how the hell do I go about proving that I thought...and the answer was I couldnt. So I took an f-ing mark on my account because some asshat newb wasnt happy that I wouldnt converse with them. (I did tell them to leave me be, I was training...but evidentally the GM was too lazy to review that before sending me off in a short vacation.)

So YES, I do get in an uproar with crap like this. I am sick and tired of seeing normal people get harrassed to the point they either quit or else get canned from the game due to uneeded paging. If something doesnt have an effect on your gameplaying why do you care what they do. If you dont know the person what business is it of yours if they are AFK or not, because last I knew it was not a requirement of people to make you happy by being *company* for you while you play.

 

[azmodanb]

If you kill someone's Fighter in Jhelom, and they page, and you presist, you can get banned.

If you invis someone thus stopping them from attacking there golem you can get banned. If of course they page on you and you do it again, and the GM see's this.

It's greifing, but most afk macro'ers dont page on you cuz they dont want the added attention to them while of course they are doing something bannable too. (being they are working skills while not there on there computer) Most people will just re-setup, and move somewhere else.

But you have that chance to get banned if the person wants to hang out for a while and page, and wait for you to do it again.

 

[Ash]

If you kill someone's Fighter in Jhelom, and they page, and you presist, you can get banned.

Not sure where you get this when it is stated multiple times in EA's support site and Harassment policy that no one owns spawn and can be killed by anyone at any time for any reason. Be it Jhelom fighters, sheeps, orcs or Daemons any and all are spawn and do not belong to any character period.

Second, while I admit will be up to if the GMs will follow their own rules, it is also stated that the person must ask you to stop and then make effort to remove themselves before they can page.

The act of invising a player 'golem training' is a little less clear cut. One can just as easily argue that form of training is taking advantage of game mechanics and thus technically be considered an exploit, after all training a warrior skill with 0 chance of taking damage appears the same to me as trapping pets to train barding skills which is clearly stated as against the rules. Telling the golem to stand there and take the hits is, in essence, a way of trapping him in one place for the character to skill gain off of. But either way, invising a char fighting a golem (by the rules, but not necessarily by GM interpretation) is only against the rules if the player asks you not to do it and you continue.

 

[Llewen]

So now I am under scrutiny for defending the concept of love thy neighbor? **** off you nitwit, beyond stating my opinion of griefing I dont stick up for those whom break the ruleset. MY whole point is we have the help system to fall back on, and if you dont use it you are breaking the same TOS you agreed to follow by griefing another player.

You have appeared to miss this line from my first post in this thread.

Yes cheating is every honest player's business, and yes they should page on cheaters every chance they get, which is what he should have done instead of killing the warriors.

Want to know my WHY I feel the way I do? Well a year and a half ago I woke up after a seizure to find myself in jail, put there for beiing AFK while golem training. Now how the hell do I go about proving that I thought...and the answer was I couldnt. So I took an f-ing mark on my account because some asshat newb wasnt happy that I wouldnt converse with them. (I did tell them to leave me be, I was training...but evidentally the GM was too lazy to review that before sending me off in a short vacation.)

Your specific situation in this case was obviously rare, and unfortunate. As much as I don't want to see anyone unfairly banned, at the same time the GM's can't be held responsible for what was in your case, a situation which they had no way of knowing anything about, and even if it were true, nothing which would prove to them that it was true. As for the person that paged on you, if you actually responded to him, he shouldn't have paged on you, and obviously, he was being a prick, and I don't support what he did.

However, your specific situation is just a one in a million stroke of bad luck for you. For the other 999,999 similar in-game situations, being paged on, followed by account action, is what should happen. And perhaps I should go one step further. If the game security was properly designed and implemented, it shouldn't be necessary for anyone to page on anyone else in a situation like that. We shouldn't have to be doing EA's job of policing UO for them. However, you do the best you can with the information and resources at your disposal...

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

You have appeared to miss this line from my first post in this thread.





Your specific situation in this case was obviously rare, and unfortunate. As much as I don't want to see anyone unfairly banned, at the same time the GM's can't be held responsible for what was in your case, a situation which they had no way of knowing anything about, and even if it were true, nothing which would prove to them that it was true. As for the person that paged on you, if you actually responded to him, he shouldn't have paged on you, and obviously, he was being a prick, and I don't support what he did.

However, your specific situation is just a one in a million stroke of bad luck for you. For the other 999,999 similar in-game situations, being paged on, followed by account action, is what should happen. And perhaps I should go one step further. If the game security was properly designed and implemented, it shouldn't be necessary for anyone to page on anyone else in a situation like that. We shouldn't have to be doing EA's job of policing UO for them. However, you do the best you can with the information and resources at your disposal...

Thing is, my situation isnt specific, this type of crap happens on a daily basis because people feel the need to police everyone else but themselves. Fact is many of the *buttholes* in the game are actually decent people who have been rubbed severely the wrong way. Break the TOS just to *police* someone else you *THINK* is breaking the rules...you make me lol @ that. Sure, lets make more good people go just because you *think* they are breaking rules. (I see examples and hear of examples every single day....)

The fact that I dont answer another player has nothing to do with not being there, its has to do with not wanting to talk. Ifthey page on me for not talking to them then obviously they didnt deserve my time or response. You see where am going with this? If you poop on my table does that mean I must now converse with you?

 

[Ash]

Thing is, my situation isnt specific, this type of crap happens on a daily basis because people feel the need to police everyone else but themselves. Fact is many of the *buttholes* in the game are actually decent people who have been rubbed severely the wrong way. Break the TOS just to *police* someone else you *THINK* is breaking the rules...you make me lol @ that. Sure, lets make more good people go just because you *think* they are breaking rules. (I see examples and hear of examples every single day....)

The fact that I dont answer another player has nothing to do with not being there, its has to do with not wanting to talk. Ifthey page on me for not talking to them then obviously they didnt deserve my time or response. You see where am going with this? If you poop on my table does that mean I must now converse with you?

Oh please, people can, as you put it, *police* page on people without breaking any TOS. I agree you shouldn't be obliged to talk to anyone that walks up to you, but if i am doing nothing wrong I have no problem with someone paging on me. I like talking to the GMs. I have been wrongfully accused of being unattended, even had someone lure lurg down on me in the painted caves (in fact different people multiple times, and yes when they see me actually there all but one was rude and ran away so I wouldn't page on them but one did apologize). But I didn't get mad, just killed Lurg and went back to fighting the trogs. I would rather have someone take action against me wrongfully then to have the hundreds of cheaters on at the same time be ignored and allowed to proper.

So, you continue to ignore the cheaters as you well, perfectly within your rights, me I will continue to report them as I see them.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Oh please, people can, as you put it, *police* page on people without breaking any TOS. I agree you shouldn't be obliged to talk to anyone that walks up to you, but if i am doing nothing wrong I have no problem with someone paging on me. I like talking to the GMs. I have been wrongfully accused of being unattended, even had someone lure lurg down on me in the painted caves (in fact different people multiple times, and yes when they see me actually there all but one was rude and ran away so I wouldn't page on them but one did apologize). But I didn't get mad, just killed Lurg and went back to fighting the trogs. I would rather have someone take action against me wrongfully then to have the hundreds of cheaters on at the same time be ignored and allowed to proper.

So, you continue to ignore the cheaters as you well, perfectly within your rights, me I will continue to report them as I see them.

I think you should reread where I state that if you have an issue you should page rather than being a jerk to others. Seems the only thing I am against is griefing people and those whom keep trying to do the job of the GM. (griefing and vigilante BS)

I do have an issue with people coming here telling thier *stories* about what they did to someone else, and if the moderators paid attention to those posts they would be deleted for TOS violations. Again, do what you like...but keep your fellow players in mind...thats all I ask.
Thanks.

 

[Sneaky Que]

I meant the Golem...

I didnt think you could invis the Golem.. Can you?

Its a bene act, not a neg act, so I don't see why not...