[Discussion] Can we please vet the silent auction item submissions?

[Manticore]

I am at the Fest now and seeing some of the items on the Silent auction and their asking price is just a waste of space for others who may truly have items above 150 mil. Wishful thinking and reality must be carefully vetted by the Auctioneers. For example, that Poseidon wisp crystal looking thing, there were so many of them given out back then that the entire set went for 500 mil or less and yet that single item has a reserve of 900 mil and a buyout 1plat+. Another example is the Sphinx statue. That thing was duped to the hundreds may be thousands and sold as low as 100 mil and yet the starting bid is 400 mil.

If you need expertise on vetting these items I would suggest you form a panel of 3-5 regular sellers from the boards that can truly judge the price range of the items submitted. They would have the experience to know what the eventual " approximate settled" price is.

 

[Scribbles]

Happy to see lower priced items at the auction. Love the idea of some younger collectors getting in the game at a lower price. As much as I would love to see all the amazing 1bill plus rares come out for sale, i think you would be hard pressed to fill an entire auction with items like that. 150m is a bit of an easier mark to hit and fill an entire auction with. I think anything remotely in the area or at the very least has a previous sale (no matter how old) around the 150m mark is a pretty happy compromise. I do not think it is necessary to knit pick at items in the auction. Knit picking will ultimately lead to younger collectors being shunned from auctions, or at the very least feeling uncomfortable at times as they are not as familar with things as the elite collectors. with that said, I always think its ultimately up to the person running the event.

 

[Lord Frodo]

BUT BUT BUT Isn't everything worth 1P+, JK.

 

[Smoot]

agreed. while a seller can ask whatever they want, priority should be taken for items with reasonable reserves. 2 people could easily fill those auction houses so space is limited. i havent submitted any items yet and hope it doesnt fill up with borderline scam reserve items. i also wasnt aware that the auction houses were open for viewing yet. (personally i would never pay more than 150m for sphinx, but 2 story statues were also massive duped and go for 400m plus, the poisedens i would value at anywhere from 100 to 300m)

hopefully be there by a few days after christmas. see you all then.

 

[Polaris75]

the Poseidon wisp crystal looking thing, there were so many of them given out back then that the entire set went for 500 mil or less and yet that single item has a reserve of 900 mil and a buyout 1plat+. Another example is the Sphinx statue. That thing was duped to the hundreds may be thousands and sold as low as 100 mil and yet the starting bid is 400 mil.

Thank you bro. I was wondering a lot when I saw those two items last night too.... lol. Maybe just a misunderstanding, but either way you're idea is great for a few people to decide on "reasonable" reserves at least. I guess the buyout doesn't really matter except where the item is ultimately located... but reserves are important for the new people.

i also wasnt aware that the auction houses were open for viewing yet..

Just wondering also, the festival doesn't start until the 26th I know. But is that also when the bidding opens for buyouts? If so I can see people having their bids ready for entry at 11:59pm on Christmas for sure... hehe. Will see you all there and thanks @blend and everyone; it will be an awesome Rares Fest for 2017!

 

[BrianFreud]

@Captn Norrington re buyouts?

 

[Clops]

Just wondering also, the festival doesn't start until the 26th I know. But is that also when the bidding opens for buyouts?

Agreed... are the auctions open already? It's a week early.

 

[Restless]

i can see the items with buyouts low enough to be on a vendor to actually be put on a vendor to make room for higher end items which can't be vendored. this doesnt exclude lesser collectors, they just get the stuff from vendors instead of auction. this all depends on how many auction submissions there are though, but the past has shown us that they fill up pretty good and normally have replacements immediately after some buyouts.

 

[Manticore]

I agree the seller can sell it for any price they wish, the accountability is on the Auctioneer/s. I'll give you some examples:

1. Obvious items that's well worth below 100 mil shouldn't be in this house but on the Vendors.
2. Items that's been selling for 125-175 range when submitted should either have a realistic starting bid and reserve, i.e. who in their right mind would bid on a Mutated Turkey Statue (Europa) with a stating bid of 300 mil and reserve 500 mil? Just an example.
3. The starting and reserve bids should be relative to the item and that's where the Auctioneer/s exp comes in of which he/she can tap into the Seasoned sellers from the boards. Restless, Smoot, Nails, and a few others just to name a few.
4. What would make sense is if Pampa decides to sell off one of his Goblin paints to have a starting bid of 1 plat, reserve of 2 plat, and buyout of 3 plat etc... Or his void rock, starting bid 5 plat, reserve 10 plat and buyout 15 plat. So this will rely on the Auctioneer/s good judgments. Nails did this back then, the items I submitted he questioned and I had to justify and come to a compromise. Some he accepted while some he didn't.

At the end, it's these little things that makes the entire experience that much more enjoyable.

 

[Captn Norrington]

I've been out of state for the last few days, just got back so will answer some concerns here.

--The houses were public because I knew I had to be gone for a few days and didn't know if Blend or Brian would need to enter the house at some point on an account that wasn't friended. It was just to avoid locking them out accidentally, it wasn't an official opening of the auction.

--Regarding auctioneers using their experience to help people determine the prices on the items, I did do that, the prices on some of the items were a few hundred million higher originally. I told the owner of the items what I usually see the items sell for, then the owner re-adjusted the prices and handed them back to me. A couple of them I didn't know the value of but had to get on a plane across the country a few hours later so didn't have time to check prices with other rares collectors.

--The owner of those items was the very first person to submit anything to the auction. I understand the need to screen items, but when there are two completely empty houses and someone wants to submit multiple items that do meet the 150m+ value requirement, it's rather difficult to say no. The owners of the items decide the prices, whether it's overpriced or not is subjective which puts me as the auctioneer in an odd position. I've seen items sell for 5x their actual value multiple times before at rares festivals, so how can I deny an item due to it being overpriced when people frequently are happy to pay much more than an item is worth at rares festivals?

-- Regarding when the auction will officially open and when buyouts will be possible, @BrianFreud that will be completely up to you and @blend since I will not be available for the first part of the rares festival due to some unexpected real life stuff.

I will be gone from December 24th to January 2nd due to the real life stuff I mentioned. During that time, the auction houses will be taken care of by Brian, which includes the official opening of them. When I get back January 2nd I will be the one taking care of them again, and will be the one there the day they close to deliver the gold and items.

If anyone has any other questions I'm happy to answer them.

 

[BrianFreud]

Hmmm; I'm planning to xfer Atlantic and Chessie down on the 25th and 26th, then I'll be opening up the traders auction for submissions. For the traders auction, I'll open the houses when they're ready; normally that's 2 days or so into pre-fest. Then I'll add additional items as they come in.

For the silent auction houses, esp since I'll be busy getting the traders auction set up, I'll be doing the same - setting up items as they come in. I'll be blocking entry to all the houses while setting up. I figure I'll probably open the silent and traders at the same time, around the 28th, when they're ready. I'm not sure how to make a fair "buyout rush"... personally I don't recall seeing one in the past. But whenever the 4 auction houses are opened, I'll post here, just to make it as fair as possible. Anyone doing a buyout, by the way, remember to contact me after posting buyout; I don't check the board of every lot every day, only at the end.

Also, I too will be away for a small part of that period, from around noon on the 31st through the afternoon of the 1st. Anything dropped off on New Year's Eve, I'll take care of it when I return from Buffalo on the 1st.

Note: Both loads are pretty close to full. Anyone who needs a ride from Atlantic, please contact Scribbles. For Chessie, I will probably do a 2nd transfer, around the 1st of Jan, but no guarantees.

 

[skittles1337]

Who would the panel consist of??? Probably rares collectors that are going to try and push the price down on items they want. Without some of these overpriced items you wouldn't even be able to fill both auction houses, let alone one house. Maybe a better idea is get rid of silent auctions altogether, most of the time they are rigged to begin with.

 

[BrianFreud]

Throw around unfounded accusations much? Having run multiple fest auctions, none of mine have ever been "rigged".

 

[Manticore]

Items that sell for 5x bids are usually the result of ego wars but they start modest. Think what would happen if all items in the house has a 5x higher starting bid and reserve. It will be one lonely house. At the end these are all just suggestions from people and nothing more.

 

[Zandor]

Throw around unfounded accusations much? Having run multiple fest auctions, none of mine have ever been "rigged".

And if they have been rigged lately, they were rigged towards the buyer! The last several fests have been loaded with steals. Just saying...

 

[blend]

I understand that everyone at the seller wishes a high outcome, but if set price is Market Price= reserve Price, it will no longer be established as an auction

It is a reasonable way to accept item submissions at house posts,
but if they are not set to reasonable prices . Ask the owner of the item again to change prices or return items, it will be a hard process

any idea about this?

 

[Clops]

Who would the panel consist of??? Probably rares collectors that are going to try and push the price down on items they want. Without some of these overpriced items you wouldn't even be able to fill both auction houses, let alone one house. Maybe a better idea is get rid of silent auctions altogether, most of the time they are rigged to begin with.

No. I say you go about it one of two ways:

First (time consuming): Research all past sale prices of the same item over time and weight the value to account for gold inflation.

Second (less time consuming): This is a simplistic business school problem, but is very effective: Let's say you have a parking lot full of cars, but you don't know how many cars are in the lot. You could walk around and count all the cars, but it could be hundreds or thousands... let's say this is Disneyland's parking lot. So how do you estimate the number of cars accurately? You ask ~10 Disneyland guests to give you an estimate and average it out. If there's an outlier beyond two standard deviations of the average, you throw it out and re-average. The guesses will be wildly different, but once averaged the result will be a decently accurate estimate. Now instead of asking guests, you ask ~10 parking lot attendants (i.e., experts) and this estimate becomes surprisingly close to the true quantity of cars (within 10% at a 95% confidence interval). This methodology works for estimating daily stock market shifts, company valuations, but most importantly, it's the primary method of valuing high-end art and antiques sold at elite auction houses like Sotheby's.

Unless you're insinuating collusion among collectors, vetting prices by those with the most knowledge of the industry is the best way to come up with a fair and accurate valuation.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Who would the panel consist of??? Probably rares collectors that are going to try and push the price down on items they want. Without some of these overpriced items you wouldn't even be able to fill both auction houses, let alone one house. Maybe a better idea is get rid of silent auctions altogether, most of the time they are rigged to begin with.

Impossible!