Calling all bards! Calling all bards!

[canary]

What, you think I'm joking? Yes, really. I suppose we can agree to disagree; I don't know how you feel like you're being useful at all at crowd control when other players can kill monsters in just a couple of seconds which makes it pointless to disco them while provo only takes care of two monsters which will get taken care of by damage dealers. There is usually a slew of monsters at a spawn. Literally a crowd. True crowd control would allow u to manipulate more than one or two mobs at once. Peacemaking is just a waste of skill points unless you dont know how to run and invis when youre getting blown up. I'm sure that as for other players perception of you, you're useless, all you can do is heal them and usually players take care of that themselves or run out of ur screen. And yes, I am also a mage, and I guess I should get a set of SDI gear and slayer spellbooks, etc., but I plan on dropping Eval eventually anyways. So what, you want to be able to Disco players? I'm all for it.

Actually I HAVE controlled more than 2 mobs at once. Also, with provoke you can do more than just 1:1... I have had hordes of high level creatures attacking each other. You just keep re-provoking as they die. It isn't honestly (imo) that difficult.

If you can't use the template well, maybe you should find another template? I have NEVER found barding to be useless unless: 1) it is in PvP, or 2) TPTB decide to make something that you have zero chance in provoking.

I think certain things SHOULD be extremely difficult to bard. Look at the above greater dragon example. It SHOULD take multiple attempts for me to work them. THEY ARE GREATER DRAGONS. If I wanted something that wasn't a challenge, I'd just ask the dev team to merely let me click on monsters, automatically making artifacts and gold be neatly deposited into my bank.

As far as me being useless, that's the last thing people think of me in a PvM scenario (again, besides something utterly non-bardable). I suppose you are right, we will indeed have to agree to disagree.

(By the way, I'm not stating bards DON'T need love... they could stand to get some attention after years of nothing. I just don't find my skills as useless as you do, apparently.)

 

[Rainfo X]

my comments bolded

Actually I HAVE controlled more than 2 mobs at once. Also, with provoke you can do more than just 1:1... I have had hordes of high level creatures attacking each other. You just keep re-provoking as they die. It isn't honestly (imo) that difficult.

the main thing is that its SLOW. if ur really playing with others, chances are they will kill them faster than you can provoke them.

If you can't use the template well, maybe you should find another template? I have NEVER found barding to be useless unless: 1) it is in PvP, or 2) TPTB decide to make something that you have zero chance in provoking.

I think certain things SHOULD be extremely difficult to bard. Look at the above greater dragon example. It SHOULD take multiple attempts for me to work them. THEY ARE GREATER DRAGONS. If I wanted something that wasn't a challenge, I'd just ask the dev team to merely let me click on monsters, automatically making artifacts and gold be neatly deposited into my bank.
please, I never said it was useless, just in terms of others. i dont even think people appreciate it when u disco what they are attacking. please, i posted screen shots of me taking down GD's on a solo bard. i am fine with the difficulty level there is just too much time in between attempts. have you ever played craps? you roll the dice pretty much constantly. nobody makes u wait. it sux man, its a bummer ur not willing to see it.

As far as me being useless, that's the last thing people think of me in a PvM scenario (again, besides something utterly non-bardable). I suppose you are right, we will indeed have to agree to disagree.
it depends on who you are playing with... how do u know what people think?
(By the way, I'm not stating bards DON'T need love... they could stand to get some attention after years of nothing. I just don't find my skills as useless as you do, apparently.)

im just feeling "meh" about it, not exactly useless. its just that, compared iwth other character types, we are much less dynamic in most situations because of waiting for the cool down. may i ask what sort of template you run that keeps u busy during the cool down?

 

[canary]

Well I know what 'most people think' (at least in regards to me personally) because I do indeed participate in events and such with peers. Merely going by feedback from them in the past I recall. Makes taking down the 'big bads' easier in you have like 4-7 of them attacking each other.

I run a mage-bard, btw, though I primarily use provocation as my bardic skill in combat.

 

[Rainfo X]

Well I know what 'most people think' (at least in regards to me personally) because I do indeed participate in events and such with peers. Merely going by feedback from them in the past I recall. Makes taking down the 'big bads' easier in you have like 4-7 of them attacking each other.

I run a mage-bard, btw, though I primarily use provocation as my bardic skill in combat.

hmmm. me too (mage bard). what 'big bads'?

 

[Rainfo X]

dude? im just wondering. cuz even if its dragons or lich lords, other people seem to :gun: way better than me as a bard. . .

 

[Rainfo X]

ah well this seems to explain some of the toughness of barding Greater Dragons, being 160 difficulty:

The effects of Discordance is halved on creatures with a barding difficulty of 160 (a bard with 120 discord normally debuffs a creature by 28%. However, against a creature that has a barding difficulty of 160.0, the bard will debuff the creature by 14% and see the message "your enemy seems to shake off some of the effects of your discordance". [publish 28]).

Along with the cooldown, it doesn't even seem worth bothering to bard them, really, and I don't actually know of anywhere where Dragons spawn WITHOUT Greaters. If somebody does, please tell me!?

Anyways, next time I'm out with other people I will just forget about disco and use provo only. It's a bummer that I can't do both at the same time, but I guess just because I feel useless while on a timer doesn't mean other people do.

I still hope bards get something good coming our way eventually.

 

[Llewen]

ah well this seems to explain some of the toughness of barding Greater Dragons, being 160 difficulty:

The effects of Discordance is halved on creatures with a barding difficulty of 160 (a bard with 120 discord normally debuffs a creature by 28%. However, against a creature that has a barding difficulty of 160.0, the bard will debuff the creature by 14% and see the message "your enemy seems to shake off some of the effects of your discordance". [publish 28]).

That's a remarkable bummer, that must have been another change that happened while I was away. I guess that makes rune beetles even more valuable in certain situations.

 

[Izzy MBC]

I can't help but comment on this thread, as all I ever quite literally play is a Mage/Provocateur hybrid.

The odd occasions I work within a group, I still feel my Provocation has it's uses. Even just getting a couple of monsters off everyone's back that can't be easily dealt with due to high Resistances, or just keep laying on Magical damage like annoying Liches.

And going solo, I can't help but feel I'm a bit over-powered, as with just a bit of patience (The cooldown is spot-on, shouldn't be any shorter), soon enough a whole room of nasties will be killing each other. Applying the magery, every creatures health can drop at the same rate, and you'll be surrounded by corpses in no time.

So many creatures that would otherwise be impossible to Solo, becomes possible thanks to Provocation too. Being chased by one big ass Mofo, you have to opportunity to Prov it off onto even the little creatures, just to temporarily "Peace" it, so it's not attacking you anymore (Paragon Balrons and the like, I do this countless times). While it's ploughing it's attacks off elsewhere, you can splash out the Magic, or find more monsters to Provocate in the mix XD

Anyway, I'd welcome a more in-depth Instrument attribute system, and as someone who writes a bit of music as a hobby, I'd love a Music Notation system in UO. I always hear how LOTR did a great job of it, for it to meet UO would be sweet :3

Edit: Also, to conclude, I've never felt it lacked in power, so I guess I've been content with how it is and never thought it needed any love. The mere fact I can use any type of Slayer Instrument without needing to hold them to apply the attribute, is pretty damn fortunate.

 

[Beastmaster]

I can't help but comment on this thread, as all I ever quite literally play is a Mage/Provocateur hybrid.

But strike the magery and where would you be? You're playing a hybrid and that's everyone's right, but you can't be a complete mage and complete bard at the same time.

We're asking for some new benefits for full fledged bards and a reduction in skill use times. With the current skill timers you must have another crutch to fall back on, even if its nothing more than running. You will have skill failures and then you have to protect yourself by other means. Even if they lower the timers you will still have this issue but obviously to a lower degree.

 

[Izzy MBC]

But strike the magery and where would you be? You're playing a hybrid and that's everyone's right, but you can't be a complete mage and complete bard at the same time.

We're asking for some new benefits for full fledged bards and a reduction in skill use times. With the current skill timers you must have another crutch to fall back on, even if its nothing more than running. You will have skill failures and then you have to protect yourself by other means. Even if they lower the timers you will still have this issue but obviously to a lower degree.

Ah, my apologies, I understand your point. That it a troublesome scenario. Even if just one skill is used, the Cooldown affects the other two as well, I guess...

Maybe I'm being simple minded here, but with 3 Skills to dedicate towards fourth skill of Musicianship itself though, there is another 200-300 skill points to Legendary or GM? Must be something that can aid him/her with that going spare :3

 

[Fink]

Extra effectsfor bards to encourage multi-skills:

Music + Peace + Discord = Misery

Lowers mob's swing speed and applies negative mana regen

Music + Peace + Provocation = Confusion

Forces mob to continually target at random while under the effect

Music + Discord + Provocation = Fury

Increases mob's swing speed but significantly lowers its HCI

Music + Peace + Discord + Provocation = Cacophony

Deals diminishing chaos damage over time

Any of these that are in effect would be broken by using the component skills involved (aside from Music). eg: Provoking the mob would break Fury or Confusion, Peace or Fury would break Misery, etc. To apply any effect, the player must pass a skill check against the mob for each skill used.

(These are poor recollections of some ideas I worked out and posted before the Stratics wipe, so regard them as very rough)

 

[Beastmaster]

Extra effectsfor bards to encourage multi-skills:

Music + Peace + Discord = Misery

Lowers mob's swing speed and applies negative mana regen

Music + Peace + Provocation = Confusion

Forces mob to continually target at random while under the effect

Music + Discord + Provocation = Fury

Increases mob's swing speed but significantly lowers its HCI

Music + Peace + Discord + Provocation = Cacophony

Deals diminishing chaos damage over time

Any of these that are in effect would be broken by using the component skills involved (aside from Music). eg: Provoking the mob would break Fury or Confusion, Peace or Fury would break Misery, etc. To apply any effect, the player must pass a skill check against the mob for each skill used.

(These are poor recollections of some ideas I worked out and posted before the Stratics wipe, so regard them as very rough)

I like those. Maybe combine them with the songbook idea. That way we could have an icon to drag out from a page for each of those effects.