Basara
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Too many of the New BODs are broken, even after all this time after their implementation.
Let's give everything a once-over and establish a list to give to the devs.
Initial contributions to list by Pawain and Basara.
We should make a list of the BOD issues and combine them into one page so we can email the bugs to the Devs in hopes of them getting fixed.
Alchemy: All work, but there are smalls that are too expensive to fill (but that's a separate issue)
Blacksmithing: Several old issues still persist. While not part of the newer BOD issues, they do need to be noted.
Carpentry: There are many issues with these, not the least of which are the too many non-combineable smalls. It doesn't help that many of these items take so much wood that a crafter can't make more than 5-10 at a time. A bigger issue is that fact that so many non-existent BOD levels are given for most of the larges on the official Wiki, as most of the BODs cannot be more than regular Wood. 90% of the BOD table values in that wiki are total bovine feces.
Fletching: Unlike Carpentry, Fletching is actually quite compact, only having 2 small BODs that doesn't have a large (kindling, and shafts). However, the many of the other issues remain, especially the bogus Wiki data.
Also, there are the persistent dangers of accidentally merging one's own loaded books into the Book BODs, unless the made books are made in a sub-container and the "fill from container" option used. There should be some way to code the BODs to not merge any books that already contain a scroll or rune into them.
Tailoring: As with Blacksmithing, this system is relatively mature, but the addition of the other 6 BOD systems have highlighted the glaring problems that had gone relatively under the radar to that point.
Tinkering: Tinkering BODs have many issues similar to those of Carpentry. Way too many non-combining smalls being the biggest, but the expensive smalls, lack of exceptional larges, colored BODs, and the WOEFULLY WRONG uo.com Wiki listing most non-existent BOD values are the same as well.
Please post any more inconsistencies in replies.
(my first reply will be a suggested change to the Tailor BOD point system)
@Bleak @Kyronix
Let's give everything a once-over and establish a list to give to the devs.
Initial contributions to list by Pawain and Basara.
We should make a list of the BOD issues and combine them into one page so we can email the bugs to the Devs in hopes of them getting fixed.
Alchemy: All work, but there are smalls that are too expensive to fill (but that's a separate issue)
Blacksmithing: Several old issues still persist. While not part of the newer BOD issues, they do need to be noted.
- Somewhere between 2000 and 2004, a bonus to exceptional quality BODs (to where the chance increased from 50% to 60% at GM) was announced and believed to be implemented (and, anecdotally, its effects appear to have existed). In the 2005-2008 BOD changes, this bonus apparently was removed (accidentally?) with no announcement, to where 2008-2009 testing of BOD pulls reflected 50% exceptional, even at 120 skill.
- Those later changes also included a 20% bonus to colored BOD chance at 110 skill, increasing to 40% at 120. However, those numbers were misleading, as 50% of smith BODs (weapons) were hardwired in the system as iron only. So, instead of 50/50, the pre-110 numbers were actually 75/25 iron/colored. The "20%" bonus at 110 actually results in the split becoming 65/35 (with 50 of the 65 still being weapons), and the "40%" bonus at 120 results in a 55/45 split (with 50/55 being weapons).
Carpentry: There are many issues with these, not the least of which are the too many non-combineable smalls. It doesn't help that many of these items take so much wood that a crafter can't make more than 5-10 at a time. A bigger issue is that fact that so many non-existent BOD levels are given for most of the larges on the official Wiki, as most of the BODs cannot be more than regular Wood. 90% of the BOD table values in that wiki are total bovine feces.
- MAJOR issue (possibly corrected): Wood (Carpentry & Fletching) BODs have had an issue with the wood colors/point values advancing out of sequence (specifically Heartwood/Bloodwood). though this may have been corrected. It might tie into some of the BOD combining issues in the past with these BODs.
- Weapons Large: Works as described, other than the issue above. Multiple Woods, normal and exceptional.
- Wood Furniture Large: The Large and smalls are regular wood only. The LBOD can be normal quality only, though some of the smalls MIGHT be exceptional.
- Cabinet Large: The large and the two smalls cant be bribed past 20 exceptional regular wood. Some LBODs might still be dropping that can't be bribed past normal.
- SE Armoire Large: The large and the four smalls cant be bribed past 20 exceptional regular wood. Some LBODs might still be dropping that can't be bribed past normal.
- Instruments: The large cant be bribed past 20 normal wood. The smalls cant be bribed past 20 exceptional wood.
- Large SE chests: The large and the five smalls cant be bribed past 20 exceptional wood. Some LBODs might still be dropping that can't be bribed past normal.
- Elven weapons (Wild Staff variants): ONLY the basic wild staff can be exceptional quality or colored wood. All the gem-requiring smalls are limited to normal regular wood. The LBOD can be BROKEN, as it can be bribed to Exceptional quality or to Oak wood, to where none of the gem-requiring BODs can fit. (this can also happen with the two fletching elven bow LBODs as well). In addition, the cost of filling the smalls can be prohibitive.
- There is currently NOT a Woodland Armor LBOD - however, that SHOULD have been one of the LBODs, and these smalls actually ARE some of the few smalls that can be colored Wood.
Fletching: Unlike Carpentry, Fletching is actually quite compact, only having 2 small BODs that doesn't have a large (kindling, and shafts). However, the many of the other issues remain, especially the bogus Wiki data.
- MAJOR issue (possibly corrected): Wood (Carpentry & Fletching) BODs have had an issue with the wood colors/point values advancing out of sequence (specifically Heartwood/Bloodwood). though this may have been corrected. It might tie into some of the BOD combining issues in the past with these BODs.
- Ammunition Large: Obviously, regular wood, normal quality.
- Bow Large: Works as described, other than the issue above. Multiple Woods, normal and exceptional.
- Crossbow Large: Works as described. There was a bug that had some Crossbow LBODs failing to recognize Repeating Crossbow smalls, that appears to have finally been fixed for good after several attempts (starting the month after the BODs began, but the broken BODs kept occurring after the fix, possibly something breaking during the bribing process as the bribe results might not have been fixed). In December 2017, the LBOD I had that had been sitting partially filled since 3 months after the first fix attempt finally accepted the last BOD needed to complete.
- Shortbows (Magical Shortbow variants): ONLY the basic magical shortbow can be exceptional quality or colored wood. All the gem-requiring smalls are limited to normal regular wood. The LBOD can be BROKEN, as it can be bribed to Exceptional quality or to Oak wood, to where none of the gem-requiring BODs can fit. In addition, the cost of filling the smalls can be prohibitive.
- Elven Longbows (and variants): ONLY the basic Elven Longbow can be exceptional quality or colored wood. All the gem-requiring smalls are limited to normal regular wood. The LBOD can be BROKEN, as it can be bribed to Exceptional quality or to Oak wood, to where none of the gem-requiring BODs can fit. In addition, the cost of filling the smalls can be prohibitive.
Also, there are the persistent dangers of accidentally merging one's own loaded books into the Book BODs, unless the made books are made in a sub-container and the "fill from container" option used. There should be some way to code the BODs to not merge any books that already contain a scroll or rune into them.
Tailoring: As with Blacksmithing, this system is relatively mature, but the addition of the other 6 BOD systems have highlighted the glaring problems that had gone relatively under the radar to that point.
- The Point system is FAR out of line with the other 7 skills, and needs to be brought into line with them.
a. Exceptional Bonus is only 100 points, when all other skills that can have exceptional items have a 200-point bonus.
b. The point system is capped at 700 points (140 banked), despite 14 of the 18 LBODs that give the highest reward being such where their value SHOULD be 710-800 (banked 142-160) under the current system. While this doesn't come into play for the point system (people will turn in for a barbed kit regardless), it DOES come into play for the yearly artisan festivals. Note that the uo.com Wiki DOES NOT REFLECT this cap, despite the display in the BODs making it clear (I did a 20 count exceptional Barbed 6-parter for the artisan festival, and that Large gave its value in the gump as 700 points, 140 if banked).
c. Said unbalanced BOD system makes its highest runic/highest reward FAR too easy to get in comparison to all other crafting skills. Before bribing and the ability to get a new BOD when turning in a filled one, when a smith might be lucky to get 1 verite or valorite runic a year, without running multiple BOD collecting characters - a tailor often could get 1-2 Barbed runics per MONTH.
The current systems only made the disparity worse, especially when it only takes at MOST 6 bribes to get any tailor Armor small to fit a Barbed Kit large (and those would be starting with a studded or bone 10-count normal regular leather, which has only 5 pieces; 2 bribes to get to 20, 1 for exceptional, 3 for material boosts; 6-parters typically take much less, as 20 count Exceptional Spined, any exceptional horned or barbed, or 20 count normal barbed will do the deed), while to do the equivalent with the (much harder to pull) 10 count normal iron plate pieces for smith requires ELEVEN bribes (2+1+8, the 8 being the material bribes) - Also part of the abnormal Tailor BOD system, is that exceptional BODs are only ONE-THIRD of all BOD pulls (compared to 50% for all other skills). When originally announced, it was inferred to be 50% (like smith) in the design documents released as part of the announcement process, but the final decision for a 1 in 3 (instead of smith's 1 in 2) was NEVER announced when the system was implemented. Nor was it documented anywhere for users to see. This resulted in SEVEN YEARS of people asking for the Devs to check and see if something was broken with tailor BODs, to which the Devs always reported it was working as intended - never mind that they'd never told the players what that intent was, and the players could only go with what had been said before (I researched this thoroughly in 2007-2009, going through all the old announcements from the old uo.com and the old Stratics). It was only when one of the Devs FINALLY understood that the WHOLE user base was under the impression that Tailor BODs were supposed to be 50% exceptional (see Putting Wilki's Numbers Into Perspective), that we FINALLY got the true information. Even Wilki couldn't find the point between the Tailor BOD system proposal and its implementation where the change was made from 50% to 33%, other than it had always been 33% in his recollection.
- Even without bribing, 106/798 possible tailor small BODs (counting material, count and quality, ignoring drop ratios) will fit a Barbed kit large (of which there are 18)- that's better than 1 in 8 - and insanely better than any other skill (where the top reward is 4-6 smalls out of 1-2 thousand possibles, fitting ONE large)
Tinkering: Tinkering BODs have many issues similar to those of Carpentry. Way too many non-combining smalls being the biggest, but the expensive smalls, lack of exceptional larges, colored BODs, and the WOEFULLY WRONG uo.com Wiki listing most non-existent BOD values are the same as well.
- Jewelry: Larges and smalls of gemmed jewelry BODs cant go past 20 normal iron. Gemmed jewelry cant be made exceptional. Non-gemmed jewelry can be colored metal, but we have no reports of anyone ever receiving an LBOD for the non-gem jewelry.
- Key Ring: Works as listed
- Tools: Iron Only. Large BOD cant be bribed to exceptional, despite all smalls being potentially exceptional.
- Dining Set: Works as listed
Please post any more inconsistencies in replies.
(my first reply will be a suggested change to the Tailor BOD point system)
@Bleak @Kyronix
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