Are these people unattended macroing?

[georgemarvin2001]

I was recall mining the other day in Fel when this guy PK'ed me, and when I gave him a murder count he didn't understand why he had turned red from killing a bunch of us "unattended" recall miners. The truth is that practically nobody is really unattended in Fel. We may be watching TV or eating while we're mining, but we're there. And, for all the non-miners who are constantly claiming that us miners are all using scripts, recall mining is the only way to get the exact spots when you're going to 32 different locations. Why 32? You can't just mine a spot dry and come back 2 minutes later to mine it again. And all the spots you marked the last time you were mining won't work any more. When I need to mine for ore, I'll spend hours wandering around and finding the gold, verite and valorite spots, and marking runes to them. It doesn't matter if two valorite spots are 5 tiles from each other, I probably wouldn't remember which tile 5 tiles away that it was on, in the middle of my 32 spot tour. If you have a photographic memory, good for you. Don't call me a scripter because I can't remember all the spots I went to and found the ore I needed, especially when they change daily.
When you call the GMs screaming scripting, about 95% of the time, it's a normal recall miner who answers them, which means that the next time, that GM is a lot less likely to answer. When you kill every miner you see, don't complain when you turn perma-red. If you think they're scripting, go for it. They all know the risks they're taking by mining in Fel. Just remember that, while most of them won't bother giving you a murder count, enough of them will be in a P.O.'ed mood already that you'll be perma-red in a matter of hours. Especially if you take their ore.

 

[Walker B]

I started working on BOD's and found a vendor selling ingots. I bought 60k worth of ingots for around 1 M. Plus buying all of his shadow for a great price. That is awesome! I sure hope he stocks that vendor again soon!............What were we talking about anyway? Must not of been important.

 

[XLaCeDX]

I have been playing on the Napa Valley shard here lately. I just made a new crafter character. I haven't played the game in a long time until now. I have noticed these characters on there mining and they recall spot to spot. It just strikes me as odd because they will recall like 5 feet from where they were standing. So I am under the assumption that these people are exploiting the game. I reported it to a game master but I haven't gotten a response. And I tried speaking to the people but they never say anything. Thanks.

I try to get them to speak to me if not I will page on them.

Last time I did that to a miner who didn't say hi to me I had a GM come ask ME my pet's name.

I had a neon HTML guild title on my miner at the time so he was probably inspecting that?

Anyways I told him my pet's name and he said: "Oh I didn't mean to ask that."

Then he told me to have a nice day and he left.

The next day I got pulled to jail for my neon guild title.

Best thing with suspected scriptors is test first, by saying hi or placing bagballs to see if they come yell at you.

No point wasting the GMs time unless you are fairly sure you have found a scriptor.

JUST BE SURE TO LEAVE A PATH THROUGH ANY BAGBALLS OR OTHER BLOCKING ITEMS YOU USE.

Make a maze that takes a turn, most walking scripts will halt if you block the front and 2 sides in the direction they are walking.

IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO BLOCK A RECALL SPOT (cows do it all the time)

It's best to just test for scripting then page on them and don't tell a soul, ever.

It'll make UO a better game and you less hated.

 

[Aran]

I don't answer anyone who spontaneously walks up to me. Especially if I'm busy doing something like, you know, mining. If you call a GM on me you're wasting everyone's time.

 

[Lord Chaos]

I try to get them to speak to me if not I will page on them.

Most miners don't really stop their UOA scripts just to chat with you or their routine.

And how can they come yell at you if you block a recall spot? They can't get to it when its blocked.

You waste the GMs time.

 

[aarons6]

I try to get them to speak to me if not I will page on them.

Last time I did that to a miner who didn't say hi to me I had a GM come ask ME my pet's name.

I had a neon HTML guild title on my miner at the time so he was probably inspecting that?

Anyways I told him my pet's name and he said: "Oh I didn't mean to ask that."

Then he told me to have a nice day and he left.

The next day I got pulled to jail for my neon guild title.

Best thing with suspected scriptors is test first, by saying hi or placing bagballs to see if they come yell at you.

No point wasting the GMs time unless you are fairly sure you have found a scriptor.

JUST BE SURE TO LEAVE A PATH THROUGH ANY BAGBALLS OR OTHER BLOCKING ITEMS YOU USE.

Make a maze that takes a turn, most walking scripts will halt if you block the front and 2 sides in the direction they are walking.

IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO BLOCK A RECALL SPOT (cows do it all the time)

It's best to just test for scripting then page on them and don't tell a soul, ever.

It'll make UO a better game and you less hated.

i wish gms banned people that page on people just because they feel everyone in the game needs to talk to them when they say hi.

 

[XLaCeDX]

Well I DO test first and on my shard we never have to worry 'bout GMs sitting around eating donuts all day when they should be earning their pay.



I have had also had the honor of being called one of the last 3 people left in UO who actually CARE about UO, and this was by a broker who drops books on all shards.

He knew that on only 3 shards did someone care enough to take time to pick up and trash the illegal items.

Also we recently had some transfers from Atlantic, one of whom complained that he expected to find tons of uber equipment for sale on vendors but was disappointed there wasn't all that much.

I said that's because we don't let scriptors run wild here like you guys do on Atlantic.

I dunno for some reason I enjoy feeling special and different from the herd.

 

[UOKaiser]

Well I DO test first and on my shard we never have to worry 'bout GMs sitting around eating donuts all day when they should be earning their pay.



I have had also had the honor of being called one of the last 3 people left in UO who actually CARE about UO, and this was by a broker who drops books on all shards.

He knew that on only 3 shards did someone care enough to take time to pick up and trash the illegal items.

Also we recently had some transfers from Atlantic, one of whom complained that he expected to find tons of uber equipment for sale on vendors but was disappointed there wasn't all that much.

I said that's because we don't let scriptors run wild here like you guys do on Atlantic.

I dunno for some reason I enjoy feeling special and different from the herd.

Question.What does uber equipment have to do with unattended scripters? I can see old dupes yea, Imbuing yes, factions equipment yea. But miners and lumberjackers I don't see the connection.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Thread tidied.

I hope I got everything.

Please do not derail threads. This forum is for the discussion of Ultima Online. If you want to discuss politics and religion do it elsewhere.

 

[Lady Storm]

No not all miners are using scrip apps 3rd party.

Most have books set with ore types for recalling to ie: val spots etc.. (ore spots dont change that fast)

As to them not talking has it ever occured to you that they might not understand english?
I live on many shards, mine and hunt them all. I have found many who dont talk turn out to be foriegn players who cant read a word of english or understand a word you are talking to them.

I have seen in my day on uo many farmers, many mine up ore, recall .. wash rince repeat
same with wood so yes there are farmers still on uo, not as many as there once was and it is cheating. Hurtfull to the game - yes

Macroing is not cheating with reguards to mining as long as the person is sitting there watching even if they cant talk to you.

Have fun

 

[GarthGrey]

To the OP, this is why I told you to let it go...Uhallers, especially the ones that actually DO script, are notorious and quite proficient at masking their scriptings as if they're UOA macros. They will make incredibly intricate tales of how they gather resources legally, and will tell you step by step how You too can do the same things legally. Funny thing is, when you actually try it yourself you won't seem to succeed quite the way they described......move on people. Stop paging GMs, stop creating threads for discussion...you're wasting valuable typing oxygen....

 

[aarons6]

To the OP, this is why I told you to let it go...Uhallers, especially the ones that actually DO script, are notorious and quite proficient at masking their scriptings as if they're UOA macros. They will make incredibly intricate tales of how they gather resources legally, and will tell you step by step how You too can do the same things legally. Funny thing is, when you actually try it yourself you won't seem to succeed quite the way they described......move on people. Stop paging GMs, stop creating threads for discussion...you're wasting valuable typing oxygen....

i invite you to do it exactly the way i do it..
here is all you need..
fire up the enhanced client. take out your bonded fire beetle and tell it to follow you.
mark a few runes.. caves work best as you get the 9 tiles around you to mine.

put those runes loose in a bag.

open up the macro tool..
drag the recall spell from your spell book, right click it choose stored and select the first rune. put a 2 second pause in it. then drag the mine by resource tile into the next box. put about 6 to 8 of them in there.. with pauses.

now here is the trick. put one of each color large/med/small ore in the next boxes and choose to use the fire beetle as the target. with pauses.

put a few more pauses.

do that for every rune.then make them repeat 10 times.

as long as you have shovels and dont get overweight you can literally mine for 20-30 minutes straight without touching the computer. of course you gotta watch it

 

[StifledArgument]

The real question is: Does it hurt you?

No.

Yes, it does hurt me. Why is my time less valuable than some lazy POS who has to unattended macro something a trained monkey can do?

Why should I recall to a spot to have some unattended dude stripping the spot and not even there, who is having his Mom make him some Hot Pockets while he surfs for porn and I am there actually doing it?

Why is my time less valuable?

 

[frostbolt]

Yes, it does hurt me. Why is my time less valuable than some lazy POS who has to unattended macro something a trained monkey can do?

Why should I recall to a spot to have some unattended dude stripping the spot and not even there, who is having his Mom make him some Hot Pockets while he surfs for porn and I am there actually doing it?

Why is my time less valuable?

its not less valuable you merely perceive it as such due to the belief of "if i have to do something this way then everyone else should to"

or "if im unhappy then everyone else should be unhappy"

get what im saying? it hurts you because you place too much importance on yourself and think that the way other people (who you dont even know) spend their time hurts you in some way.

 

[StifledArgument]

its not less valuable you merely perceive it as such due to the belief of "if i have to do something this way then everyone else should to"

or "if im unhappy then everyone else should be unhappy"

get what im saying? it hurts you because you place too much importance on yourself and think that the way other people (who you dont even know) spend their time hurts you in some way.

You do realize how flawed that logic is right? The "other way people are doing it" is not an allowed means by the developers of the game. I don't place too much importance on myself, I place it on those of us who still do not cheat to get a means to an end.

They way they "spend their time" is not even playing the game, away from their keyboards, while those of us who do not cheat and are there go to these spots, that more than likely would have a resource for us to get (on a slower shard such as my own), if it were not for the people who are cheating. So, for my fellow non-cheaters as well as me,time is wasted recalling to spot after spot that has been stripped by cheaters. I have extremely limited time to play this game, but at least I am there doing it. So, yes, it does hurt me in some way when I have to give up after an hour surrounded by afk miners/lumberjacks etc; I wasted an hour of my time because people come up with terrible logic for their actions.

 

[Surgeries]

its not less valuable you merely perceive it as such due to the belief of "if i have to do something this way then everyone else should to"

or "if im unhappy then everyone else should be unhappy"

get what im saying? it hurts you because you place too much importance on yourself and think that the way other people (who you dont even know) spend their time hurts you in some way.

So...if you and I play a game of Monopoly, and I have a secret stash of money, and place additional houses, as well, while you aren't looking, and I win...

Does that hurt you? If not, why not, and if so, how, exactly?

Or, imagine yourself in a game of golf. As you play the round, you notice I am having some bad holes, but by the end of the game, I somehow managed to have a lower score than you. You know I did it by cheating my score, and when we get top the club house, I tell everyone how great I am...does that hurt you at all?

Or, imagine that you are in business, and you sell items you make yourself. I, on the other hand, use your idea, and pirate the items ("pirating" in this context is referring most specifically to breaking "The Rules" written...laws actually...that say I cannot copy your or anyone else's design without their permission. Kind of like the rules in the game...only the game rules we are actually supposed to read and agree to...the ones that say a person will not macro unattended, etc.) and then, after I produce the items for less money each than it costs you to make them yourself, I sell the items cheaper than you are able to make the items, yourself.

After all, you are the one heavily invested in the actual infrastructure needed to make the genuine article. I, on the other hand, use a cheap imitation of your equipment, and although our products look identical, I am able to produce them much, much cheaper than you. Luckily for me, there are few investigations into operations like mine.

When I do it and then significantly undercut the bare bone price it actually DOES cost to make the item...does it hurt you, the person that makes them? If so why, and if not...why not?

Hopefully you will get what I'm saying?

 

[Lord Chaos]

Noone gets what you're saying as your examples are completely invalid.

 

[AesSedai]

its not less valuable you merely perceive it as such due to the belief of "if i have to do something this way then everyone else should to"

or "if im unhappy then everyone else should be unhappy"

get what im saying? it hurts you because you place too much importance on yourself and think that the way other people (who you dont even know) spend their time hurts you in some way.

So...if you and I play a game of Monopoly, and I have a secret stash of money, and place additional houses, as well, while you aren't looking, and I win...

Does that hurt you? If not, why not, and if so, how, exactly?

Or, imagine yourself in a game of golf. As you play the round, you notice I am having some bad holes, but by the end of the game, I somehow managed to have a lower score than you. You know I did it by cheating my score, and when we get top the club house, I tell everyone how great I am...does that hurt you at all?

Or, imagine that you are in business, and you sell items you make yourself. I, on the other hand, use your idea, and pirate the items ("pirating" in this context is referring most specifically to breaking "The Rules" written...laws actually...that say I cannot copy your or anyone else's design without their permission. Kind of like the rules in the game...only the game rules we are actually supposed to read and agree to...the ones that say a person will not macro unattended, etc.) and then, after I produce the items for less money each than it costs you to make them yourself, I sell the items cheaper than you are able to make the items, yourself.

After all, you are the one heavily invested in the actual infrastructure needed to make the genuine article. I, on the other hand, use a cheap imitation of your equipment, and although our products look identical, I am able to produce them much, much cheaper than you. Luckily for me, there are few investigations into operations like mine.

When I do it and then significantly undercut the bare bone price it actually DOES cost to make the item...does it hurt you, the person that makes them? If so why, and if not...why not?

Hopefully you will get what I'm saying?

- Good perfectly valid examples of how cheating negatively affects everyone involved in the same activity.

If I had more time I would answer your questions; but to put it simply:

it remains obvious to me that cheating is bad.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Except they're completely invalid comparing to an MMO.

 

[frostbolt]

So...if you and I play a game of Monopoly, and I have a secret stash of money, and place additional houses, as well, while you aren't looking, and I win...

Does that hurt you? If not, why not, and if so, how, exactly?

Or, imagine yourself in a game of golf. As you play the round, you notice I am having some bad holes, but by the end of the game, I somehow managed to have a lower score than you. You know I did it by cheating my score, and when we get top the club house, I tell everyone how great I am...does that hurt you at all?

Or, imagine that you are in business, and you sell items you make yourself. I, on the other hand, use your idea, and pirate the items ("pirating" in this context is referring most specifically to breaking "The Rules" written...laws actually...that say I cannot copy your or anyone else's design without their permission. Kind of like the rules in the game...only the game rules we are actually supposed to read and agree to...the ones that say a person will not macro unattended, etc.) and then, after I produce the items for less money each than it costs you to make them yourself, I sell the items cheaper than you are able to make the items, yourself.

After all, you are the one heavily invested in the actual infrastructure needed to make the genuine article. I, on the other hand, use a cheap imitation of your equipment, and although our products look identical, I am able to produce them much, much cheaper than you. Luckily for me, there are few investigations into operations like mine.

When I do it and then significantly undercut the bare bone price it actually DOES cost to make the item...does it hurt you, the person that makes them? If so why, and if not...why not?

Hopefully you will get what I'm saying?

no these examples are not valid because first of all, i can be completely self sufficient in this game,

second of all i am not playing with you in this game

third of all i dont even have to interact with you in this game i can simply move to another spot

thus voiding both examples number 1 and 2

fourth of all monopoly example means nothing because i am not competeting with you to win at this game

And finally this could hardly be compared with pirating.. if you want to do that then what you would have to do is to say something like, i duped the legitimate miner's ingots and shared them with the rest of my friends.

 

[Viper09]

I see a good amount of scripters in this game. Miners, crafters, etc. They in no way affect me. Why? Because if I want to mine I will mine in a place where they are not mining. Their scripting doesn't interfere with my game play as I don't play with them, my typical game-play is in no way dependent on anything they are doing, their presence doesn't make any difference to me at all. The only way they may affect my game-play is if I want to buy resources. But that doesn't negatively affect me at all.

I do, however, dislike them. I will kill them if I they are in fel or try to screw up their script. Or I will steal from them if they have something I want, I wont spend much time on it though. Maybe I might page on them...if I have the time to wait for a GM.

 

[AesSedai]

I see a good amount of scripters in this game. Miners, crafters, etc. They in no way affect me. Why? Because if I want to mine I will mine in a place where they are not mining. Their scripting doesn't interfere with my game play as I don't play with them, my typical game-play is in no way dependent on anything they are doing, their presence doesn't make any difference to me at all. The only way they may affect my game-play is if I want to buy resources. But that doesn't negatively affect me at all.

I do, however, dislike them. I will kill them if I they are in fel or try to screw up their script. Or I will steal from them if they have something I want, I wont spend much time on it though. Maybe I might page on them...if I have the time to wait for a GM.

- So you mine (doesn't really matter whether you do)?
Then cheating (unattended mining) has already directly negatively affected you a few times.
How?
- Well, the Devs have spent resources changing the way we mine, more than once. That alone directly negatively affected you (for the simple fact that the Devs had to spend time adjusting part of the game rather than spend the limited resources on other parts of the game... even if you never ever interact with other players it has still directly negatively affected you, more than once)...

You can surely believe that cheating doesn't affect you but the undeniable truth is that it has negatively affected you / your gameplay (along with everyone else ever involved with UO)...
the only way all cheating in UO has not had a negative affect on you is if you have never had any involvement with UO (& even then, it is still quite possible that cheating in UO has directly negatively affected you)...
and since you have an account here, and have posted in this thread, then you too have undeniably been negatively affected by cheating in UO (unless you had absolutely nothing better to do than to spend time reading and posting in this thread about cheating... so if you had absolutely nothing better to do with your time then I suppose cheating in UO has at a minimum neutrally affected you & perhaps not negatively affected you - but your mere acknowledgment of this thread is undeniable proof that it has affected you).

 

[UOKaiser]

- So you mine (doesn't really matter whether you do)?
Then cheating (unattended mining) has already directly negatively affected you a few times.
How?
- Well, the Devs have spent resources changing the way we mine, more than once. That alone directly negatively affected you (for the simple fact that the Devs had to spend time adjusting part of the game rather than spend the limited resources on other parts of the game... even if you never ever interact with other players it has still directly negatively affected you, more than once)...

You can surely believe that cheating doesn't affect you but the undeniable truth is that it has negatively affected you / your gameplay (along with everyone else ever involved with UO)...
the only way all cheating in UO has not had a negative affect on you is if you have never had any involvement with UO (& even then, it is still quite possible that cheating in UO has directly negatively affected you)...
and since you have an account here, and have posted in this thread, then you too have undeniably been negatively affected by cheating in UO (unless you had absolutely nothing better to do than to spend time reading and posting in this thread about cheating... so if you had absolutely nothing better to do with your time then I suppose cheating in UO has at a minimum neutrally affected you & perhaps not negatively affected you - but your mere acknowledgment of this thread is undeniable proof that it has affected you).

Weird I havent being effected by it? The dev changing things to make things harder is because of players complaining or grief players that either do it on purpose or don't know any better on the disguise of whatever rule they wish to follow at that time. So I would say player complaining have affected me from nerfing everything thats fun to do in game becasue they feel like it or preventing new feutures because they don't like it. Though I adjust. From working with the market to always having another character to change to if another is nerfed.

 

[Viper09]

Game experience may change during online play...

If you want to blame changes on scripters, then go ahead. I call it natural change to make things either more difficult. Before mining was simpler. Rare ore always in the same spots, smart players learned to mark the areas and always mine there. Scripters and dedicated players made it harder for casual gamers to get the rare ore they needed. Easy to blame it on scripters and yes, they probably made a bigger impact on the devs choice to make it random. But even if there were no scripters I would have strongly supported this change regardless.

 

[Aran]

I was unaware UO had a winning condition like Monopoly does.

 

[Konge]

I was unaware UO had a winning condition like Monopoly does.

What'd you think Luna was?

 

[Aran]

Just another city, although one laid out in a utilitarian fashion, befitting its fortress roots?

Oh wait, sorry, this is UHall.


WAHH THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO SELL STUFF FOR TOO MUCH THERE AND THEY SHOULD BE BANNED AND WAHH BURN IT WAHHH

 

[Konge]

Just another city, although one laid out in a utilitarian fashion, befitting its fortress roots?

Oh wait, sorry, this is UHall.


WAHH THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO SELL STUFF FOR TOO MUCH THERE AND THEY SHOULD BE BANNED AND WAHH BURN IT WAHHH

Well... there's houses around a rectangular road that you can buy, and people pay those houses when they land next to them, there's a "jail" in the corner, all we're missing is chance cards and a square that says GO.

 

[Aran]

Nein.

 

[Konge]

Nein.

Yup. Could be a sub-game added with the tinker/fishing/gun expansion that also adds nazi-zombies as a playable race.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Please continue that discussion in pm or one of the off topic boards.

 

[Viper09]

Well... there's houses around a rectangular road that you can buy, and people pay those houses when they land next to them, there's a "jail" in the corner, all we're missing is chance cards and a square that says GO.

Hmmm, never actually thought about that...lol. But yeah, Luna could easily be defined as a Monopoly board! lol

 

[Cailleach]

How is that a dead giveaway? If you have a specific ore spot there, its so much easier just to recall to it, than trying to find it by walking over.

You just use UOA, it can automatically recall, mine the spot and then you just drag the ore over, rinse and repeat.

Um, I hate to say this, but ore spots have been random for quite some time now. Specific ore spots don't happen anymore.

*is not quite sure you're talking about the same UO everyone else is*

 

[Aran]

I've been mining the same shadow ore spot for over a month.

 

[Cailleach]

I've been mining the same shadow ore spot for over a month.

The RNG clearly likes you rather more than it likes most of the rest of us then. For the rest of us, it's random all the way.

 

[UOKaiser]

Um, I hate to say this, but ore spots have been random for quite some time now. Specific ore spots don't happen anymore.

*is not quite sure you're talking about the same UO everyone else is*

Hes probably talking about the books he used before the change. Eitherway the ore changes but the percentage,the resource squares aroound it and number of strikes it takes before it's drain doesn't. Ivei saidbefore those books took a hell a long time for me to make just right and I believe Basara has one like me as well and we wouldn't sell or share those books no matter what. I have to say those books are much more valuable than idoc books.

 

[Guido_LS]

Hes probably talking about the books he used before the change. Eitherway the ore changes but the percentage,the resource squares aroound it and number of strikes it takes before it's drain doesn't. Ivei saidbefore those books took a hell a long time for me to make just right and I believe Basara has one like me as well and we wouldn't sell or share those books no matter what. I have to say those books are much more valuable than idoc books.

I have an old valorite book that, while no good for valorite anymore, certainly fits exactly what you just said - and I definitely wouldn't sell it. It's all fun and games trying to get crystalline blackrock in Ter Mur, but 6 swings and out gets old quickly - especially with the scarcity of anything but iron...

 

[Cailleach]

I have a whole pile of those books, including a double exceptional 'Mines Britain'. They're damned handy, even if the ore type isn't applicable anymore, and I wouldn't part with them for any amount of gold!

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Again, it's not about the ore spot. It's about the surrounding resource tiles and the colored ore percentage that makes a specific spot, an exact spot, ideal.

Sure walking and mining every 8 tiles will get you ingots, but it's not even remotely close to an efficient method to maximizing colored ore.

 

[georgemarvin2001]

Cailleach, you are operating under a false idea. The ore changes, but it isn't totally random; there is only a small chance that it will change each time it's mined. That means that some spots will change to a different color the first time you mine them, but others won't change for weeks.

Also, it appears that the chance of it changing is different for different areas. I've got one Valorite spot that hasn't changed in several weeks. On the other hand, most of the verite and valorite spots in mining caves change every few hours. It's usually the more common ores that don't change often.

The chance that it will change, and the ores that it will change to, isn't the same for every location, either. For instance, on Fel Atlantic, the mining cave north of (you can find it; hint: a half-dozen of us recall there constantly) has a couple of spots that generally have at least agapite ore. It may be valorite one day and verite the next, but it's never just regular iron or dull copper. Likewise, there is a cave in Trammel where practically all of the spots will have the same ore. You might mine 500 copper ore there one day, and 500 gold the next, but almost every spot in the whole cave will be identical ore. And there are the "sweet spots" where you can mine lots and lots of ore without ever moving. Those of us who have mined a lot for 10 years have learned quite a few of the tricks and secrets about it.

To the whiners who don't know how to mine: The people who mine for 10 minutes then whine that they can't mine as much or as fast as somebody who has done it for years can, need to spend a few weeks mining, talk to some veteran miners instead of PKing them on sight, and spend the time it takes to learn all the tricks of the trade. It takes time to get good at anything, even resource gathering. Don't expect us to tell you all of our secrets just because you want to know them, either. I'm always surprised when I mention that I'm going to camp an IDOC and people want me to tell them where it is. The same goes for mining. We learned a lot of what we know the hard way, and we're not just going to give up the secrets it took us months to learn because you want us to.

 

[Amren]

The real question is: Does it hurt you?

No.

QFT