Animal Taming Fixes - Reposted

[nightstalker22]

It appears that an immature moderator deleted my posts ( I posted this here and in Animal Taming forum ). It is pretty sad that someone who is in position of power cannot handle a view contrary to their own, and must censor the opposing view. I feel sorry for anyone who knows them, personally and through these forums. If they cannot handle free expression on a game forum, I can only imagine how they handle real, important issues.​

Animal Taming Fixes
​

The animal tamer has been given too much power with the advent of "bonded" status. It is basically a freely insured item that never needs repair or powder of fortification applied to it, and on Siege Perilous and Mugen, that is a huge advantage, as you still have your "Siege Bless" available for use. The other problem with "bonded" status is it allows the pet owner to be wreckless with thier pets lives, as there is no real consequence for letting it die while you're away from the computer, leaving it to farm silver for you, or when you're in battle and you decided it is okay to leave the vet skill on a soulstone because the pet really doesn't matter. What pet would bond with this owner?

My proposal to fix this is what I will call "Life Force". Upon bonding of an animal, the animal will roll a random number between 10 and 25, and this will be indicative of the number of times the animal can die and be ressurected, forcing players to take better care of their pets. Those who use Greater Dragons for PvP will also have real consequences should their dragon be killed.

Bonding - bonding by feeding a pet then stabling it for a week, then taking it out of stables and feeding it again, is pretty rediculous. I would assume the pet would bond with the stable master before it bonded to you, as the stable master is the one who's been feeding it for the past week. I propse changing the bonding system to 25 meals, with a 1 hour timer between meals ( that count towards the bonding ), so the pet will bond with owner in 25 hours at the earliest, and as you would expect an animal to bond to the one who is regularly feeding it. I believe this will help with the turn over rates and keep tamers playing steadily as their old pets run out of life force, they can bond another fairly quickly.

Grandfathered Pets - I expect the new proposed format will anger the older players who have pre patched pets who have odd stats or eat different foods than the current animals that are in the wild. The thought of losing their pets to a "Life Force" system would be unacceptable to them. I propose that all pets which are bonded before the patch implentation be not subject to the new format, and the life force counter displayed upon loring the pet would read "infinite". Should the Grandfathered pets be traded to another player however, they lose grandfathered status and will roll 25 to 50 life force at that time ( potentially twice the amount of newly trained pets ).

Trading - Trading a bonded pet ( not grandfathered ) will keep the original "Life Force" rolled upon bonding, it will not be re-rolled at the time of bonding with its new owner.

I believe these changes would bring back the Animal Taming business, and we would see bank sitters selling their pets once again.

 

[kelmo]

When were the original posts made? I really do not see any evidence these posts were removed. I have seen evidence that the Stratics site it's self has been "screwy" for the last day or so.

 

[nightstalker22]

When were the original posts made? I really do not see any evidence these posts were removed. I have seen evidence that the Stratics site it's self has been "screwy" for the last day or so.

I posted them last night around 9 pm eastern ( while watching The Lakers hang on to a 2 point win... The Suns came back from an 18 point defecit to tie the game with 3.5 seconds remaining. Kobe shot an air ball but Ron Artest was there to catch it and lay it in at the buzzer! Great game! )

The post on Siege side had received one post in support of the idea, but the one on the Animal Tamer side had one very negative response ( that I saw ), there may have been more but I will never know. I assume the negativity snowballed and the moderator deleted my posts, as I've never had a post disappear like this when posting on Siege. It is when I ventured out into prodo land that I was met with censorship, go figure.

The 'glitches' I've been experiencing with this site have to do with slow page loading as I watch the status bar, it seems to be trying to load ads that aren't there, retries several times, then tries another, finally loading.

 

[kelmo]

The "glitches" are the likely culprit. Stratics has been undergoing some issues. These appear to have been corrected.

 

[Kat]

The forums and possibly all of Stratics [I didn't check] were down and being worked on for quite a long time last night. For a while, it wasn't here AT ALL. I was starting to wonder if they had been deleted! There may have been a small "revert" or something, because I noticed when the forums came back up, the newest post on UHall was at 2:20 PM yesterday. I know for certain I made a post there around 7 PM or so. Can't remember the time exactly, but it was last evening.

Anyway, your idea isn't a bad one, though I don't care much for the grandfathered pets being "infinite". That seems unfair to everyone else and would lead to those folks using pets as meat shields, but others couldn't. I would imagine if their pets mean that much to them, they should take care of them, special or otherwise.

 

[nightstalker22]

The forums and possibly all of Stratics [I didn't check] were down and being worked on for quite a long time last night. For a while, it wasn't here AT ALL. I was starting to wonder if they had been deleted! There may have been a small "revert" or something, because I noticed when the forums came back up, the newest post on UHall was at 2:20 PM yesterday. I know for certain I made a post there around 7 PM or so. Can't remember the time exactly, but it was last evening.

Anyway, your idea isn't a bad one, though I don't care much for the grandfathered pets being "infinite". That seems unfair to everyone else and would lead to those folks using pets as meat shields, but others couldn't. I would imagine if their pets mean that much to them, they should take care of them, special or otherwise.

Roll back makes sense I suppose, and Kelmo says he sees no evidence of foul play, I don't believe he has any reason to lie, so I will accept that it was Stratics and not a poor moderator ( and will repost in Animal Taming forum too ).

I don't like the grandfathered pet thing either, but I figured it would have to be in the proposal to even get it to the point of being considered. Politics!

Remove the Grandfathered pets thing and make a gold sink issue, like Powder of Fortification. Use Item X and replenish your pets Life Force!

Or do something like a daily count. Your pet can die only 5 times a day ( server up to server up ) before it loses bonded status.

 

[Wulf2k]

I'd vote for pets to go into a severe form of faction stat loss if killed by a player/pet, or something similar myself. Or at least make pets permanently lose 5.0 skill points per death, make it matter.

Not that your idea couldn't work, just that it might be a little much to implement the whole new system instead of tweaking the old.

 

[Mook Chessy]

I vote that we leave pets alone...

Wanna fix something, how about this!

If a thief steals from you and you kill him, you get your item back!!!

Not that is an idea I can get behind.

 

[Barry Gibb]

pet bonding is fine the way it is now. Your idea would severely hurt the non-tamer characters that rely on their pets daily. It would make training pets almost a worthless endeavor. It takes along time to train a pet. This training is crucial for the pet's effectiveness. It is a serious investment.

It is obvious that pet bonding is not a problem. What is the real issue?
Are pets too tough to kill? Can they return to the fight too fast or too easily? Are your tactics fighting a tamer lacking? Is this a faction concern only?

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Dirkdiggler]

I vote that we leave pets alone...

Wanna fix something, how about this!

If a thief steals from you and you kill him, you get your item back!!!

Not that is an idea I can get behind.

+1 on that, and thats from a thief! I've had some epic chases ending with me bleeding on the floor. The person who killed me definately deserved the item, what they do with it then is their own business.

Good call on the taming changes by the way. I mean with vollems people can roll around with two bonded dreads (for all intents and purposes) without even sacrificing any skill points on their build or risking anything.

 

[nightstalker22]

pet bonding is fine the way it is now. Your idea would severely hurt the non-tamer characters that rely on their pets daily. It would make training pets almost a worthless endeavor. It takes along time to train a pet. This training is crucial for the pet's effectiveness. It is a serious investment.

It is obvious that pet bonding is not a problem. What is the real issue?
Are pets too tough to kill? Can they return to the fight too fast or too easily? Are your tactics fighting a tamer lacking? Is this a faction concern only?

Stayin Alive,

BG

Non tamer characters who use horses and beetles would eventually have to purchase another one from a tamer, no big deal.

The training period would be a hassle for a temporary pet, I agree, so the stat loss upon taming could be tweaked a bit, so the pet is viable at once.

The real issue isn't that the pets are too tough to kill, it is that there are no consequences for using them, as they dont have durability that needs to be repaired, they dont have uses like a crafter tool or bladed skinning weapon, and they are a permanent fixture ( bonded ), without even using the Siege Blessing.

It is not a faction only concern. I assume you mean faction only concerning the farming of silver, but people use them to farm Treasures of Tokono too, and could use them to farm any other rewards that pop into the backpack, as is the case in Illsh, fel dungeons, and other places. As far as stat loss goes, if the tamer is killed, that pretty much puts them out of contention for 15 minutes, unless they have +skill jewels they could put on after rez to regain control over the pet, but I doubt they would rush back into battle with their hiding and stealth in stat loss.

I've been playing alot lately with my Greater Dragon, and am quite bored by its power. There really isn't a challenge in PvM with it, especially with monster ignore on, I can just concentrate on keeping it cured and healed.

To think that I can just continue on like this indefinately, without even maint. costs is pretty silly... I dont even have to repair my armour!

Maybe the pets should die of old age, 2 months bonded and they die, whether the time is spent in stables or not.

 

[Sunchicken]

i like this

 

[Barry Gibb]

Non tamer characters who use horses and beetles would eventually have to purchase another one from a tamer, no big deal.

The training period would be a hassle for a temporary pet, I agree, so the stat loss upon taming could be tweaked a bit, so the pet is viable at once.

I do not consider fire beetles as a temporary pet, they are quite difficult to come by. I think you will dislike making a pet "usable at once" more so than bonding. It would make pets a disposable comodity, rather than an investment. What would be done about the pets that can no longer be obtained?

The real issue isn't that the pets are too tough to kill, it is that there are no consequences for using them, as they dont have durability that needs to be repaired, they dont have uses like a crafter tool or bladed skinning weapon, and they are a permanent fixture ( bonded ), without even using the Siege Blessing.

This is not unique to pets. The same can be said about magery and other spell casting. I do not degrade any items during casting and my spell book is blessed without using the Siege Bless. Magery requires only time invensted in raising the skill, obtaining reagents, and learning how to best use the skill. Pets require raising the skill, obtaining ways to maintain the pet (heal it, be reagents or bandaids), learning how best to use the pet, obtaining a decent pet (getting a good one), and training that pet so it does not die. Non-imbued weapons are a permanent fixture (unless you are extremely careless), they can be repaierd and their durability restored. Crafting tools are meant to wear out. This is not unique to Siege. It is ridiculous to compare pets to a mere 3-4 ingot item.

It is not a faction only concern. I assume you mean faction only concerning the farming of silver, but people use them to farm Treasures of Tokono too, and could use them to farm any other rewards that pop into the backpack, as is the case in Illsh, fel dungeons, and other places.

If the issue is unattended farming of rewards, then this is an entirely different issue, not unique to pets. Other characters can do this just as easily if not more so) than a pet. Is this the real reason for the "lack of consequences" you mentioned above?

I've been playing alot lately with my Greater Dragon, and am quite bored by its power.

The only advice I can offer is to use something other than a Greater Dragon, maybe you will have more fun.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Sunchicken]

Well i cant throw my spellbook at slap you for 65hp either

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I see the OP's point...especially on Siege/Mugen.

However, I think the OP has probably never worked up a tamer. I recently came to Siege (last week) and I am already a GM mage, GM meditation, GM eval int...you know where my taming is?

61.3

Anyone can find a golem and go to town with a poison damage weapon and GM warrior skills in a matter days. GMing taming takes a long, long, time.

So, while I agree that the advantage of bonding is most certainly unfair...I think taming gains would need to be adjusted...a lot...if the devs were going to make pets essentially temporary. In addition, they would probably need to take out the "you have angred the beast"...feature...as well. How many smiths do you know that die 10 or more times making a single weapon? Taming a Greater Dragon is not like buying a crossbow or crafting a mace...it's something that takes time, and involves risk...especially on Siege/Mugen where anyone can just pick up your stuff after the GD eats you for the 3rd or 4th time.

Taming has it's rewards, but those come at some cost.

 

[Førsaken]

I say do it! =D

 

[John Connelly]

Some good ideas there but they will never happen. However the idea of using the Siege bless on a pet instead of bonding makes a lot of sense and may be worth listing as one of the changes we want on Siege. I can't see any true Siege player objecting to this.

 

[Kael]

I would support the need to use a siege bless on your pet ( to act like a bond)

 

[Beli Mawr]

Har... well to be fair, I wouldn't have a problem useing my Siege Bless on one of my pets of destruction.

As long as it was truely done in all fairnesss, like mages have to use their Siege Bless on their spell books.

How you all feel about fairness, when it becomes truely fair ?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

As long as it was truely done in all fairnesss, like mages have to use their Siege Bless on their spell books.

Sounds pretty fair to me. It's a HELL of a lot easier to replace spellbooks than good pets.

 

[Kael]

Har... well to be fair, I wouldn't have a problem useing my Siege Bless on one of my pets of destruction.

As long as it was truely done in all fairnesss, like mages have to use their Siege Bless on their spell books.

How you all feel about fairness, when it becomes truely fair ?

Good point....would this also include rune books, chiv spell books, necro books, sw books and myst??

 

[Sunchicken]

Good point....would this also include rune books, chiv spell books, necro books, sw books and myst??

DONT FORGET BUSHIDO AND NINJA

 

[Kael]

Good point....would this also include rune books, chiv spell books, necro books, sw books and myst??

DONT FORGET BUSHIDO AND NINJA

My bad sir...ninja and bushido too

 

[nightstalker22]

DONT FORGET BUSHIDO AND NINJA

Of course, I believe one should be able to "learn" up to three spells of choice from each book, by repated usage, a sub skill that trains through ROT in the same way... does a legendary wizard really need to check his/her spellbook for the correct wording if he/she has cast the spell a million times already?

 

[Beli Mawr]

Hmmm.... So, in all fairness, useing your logic. Should not I have the skill to ress my pet with the knowledge of haveing done it thousands of times in the past, with my bare hands and no bandaids ?

Fairness, to be honest, is in the mind of each person, their own version.

 

[Førsaken]

While we're at it, why not; delete all runics from server, all arties, take bless off everything (rune books, clothing, spell books etc), remove the Siege bless, remove factions, remove all expansions starting with AoS to present, and lets have one hell of a time?

 

[UncleSham]

i dont like the idea of life force . mostly because i value my pets . i spend quite alot of time finding the right ones and training them . i wouldnt want them to just disapear on me. people say its just pixels ... but its not . it represents an invenstment in our time .

most tamers i know value their pets rather irrationally . almost like children . we care for them as we watch them grow .if they start disapearing i think you would find some very upset individuals . (some of us dont care if we are seen as rational or not)

it seems your biggest complaint is there is no consequence for them dying .

ok . maybe then we should give them some kind of temporary loss in stats and skills that works like faction statloss. that would take them out of a fight ... but not permanently.
(i could live with that)

you also seem concerned about afk farming . a valid complaint , but as others have said this is not a pet exclusive problem so taking it out on the pet will not solve the underlying issue. (the whole afk thing)


morgana wait till you get taming into ROT ... you may not be so ready to trash our gain system once you see how it works . (it effin rocks)
skills that require multiple targets are so much easier in ROT especially those skills that require resources (smithing tailoring etc).

we have asked for tweaks to ROT but dont want to see it replaced with the old guarenteed garbage system.
the biggest holdback is that ROT takes forever . this is mostly due to the daily caps . if we removed the caps it wouldnt be so bad . so you have to wait a few minutes between gains no big deal really . maybe you might have to .. you know .. go play.

 

[Black magick]

Har... well to be fair, I wouldn't have a problem useing my Siege Bless on one of my pets of destruction.

As long as it was truely done in all fairnesss, like mages have to use their Siege Bless on their spell books.

How you all feel about fairness, when it becomes truely fair ?

If they give all mage books 100 lrc and the ability to melee for pretty good damage and cast spells themselves along with your own. Sure. Then that's fair. I'm for Night's idea (having trained up 3 tamers here and numerous on prodo) On a side note, your comparing pet ressing which requires items to memorizing an incantation is stupid at best.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

While we're at it, why not; delete all runics from server, all arties, take bless off everything (rune books, clothing, spell books etc), remove the Siege bless, remove factions, remove all expansions starting with AoS to present, and lets have one hell of a time?

I like the way you think!! But can we go back to just before AoS? That would be my preference!

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

morgana wait till you get taming into ROT ... you may not be so ready to trash our gain system once you see how it works . (it effin rocks)
skills that require multiple targets are so much easier in ROT especially those skills that require resources (smithing tailoring etc).

we have asked for tweaks to ROT but dont want to see it replaced with the old guarenteed garbage system.
the biggest holdback is that ROT takes forever . this is mostly due to the daily caps . if we removed the caps it wouldnt be so bad . so you have to wait a few minutes between gains no big deal really . maybe you might have to .. you know .. go play.

I despise GGS. When I hit 109 taming or so on Atlantic, I could only get my GGS gains per day. So do the math, and figure out how long it took me to hit 120

Anything is better than that crap.

I'd just like to see skills move faster on Siege than on prodo shards because I think that it would draw more players to the shard...and because I want to get done with taming (I swore after hitting 120 I would never, ever, tame anything on Ice Island again...I lied. )

 

[UncleSham]

"i lied"

lol
so did i .

 

[Raptor85]

I would support the need to use a siege bless on your pet ( to act like a bond)

^^^^THIS^^^^ The creature is the tamers weapon, all other classes must use their siege bless if they do not want to lose their weapon, so tamers should as well. This way they can permanently keep their pets like they want, but not for free. (I have a few GM+ tamers on other shards, and fully understand how much attachment you can get to your oldest pets)

As for spellbooks and the like, I like the idea of requiring the use of siege bless on those as well, personally the only things that I think should be able to be blessed are deco only items, with absolutely no mods at all (AOS sandals, plain cloaks, hooded robes, sashes, etc). And I don't say this as someone who would be unaffected! This would leave me with the chance of losing my ninjitsu book, my ninja belt, etc. on one of my many...many deaths.

 

[nightstalker22]

i dont like the idea of life force . mostly because i value my pets . i spend quite alot of time finding the right ones and training them . i wouldnt want them to just disapear on me. people say its just pixels ... but its not . it represents an invenstment in our time .

With my proposed change, the training period wouldnt be so rigerous, and if you take care of your pet as you say you do, the Life Force wont really matter, as 20 lives should last you years. Of course, I later proposed a sort of "Powder of Fortification" to replenish lives too, as a gold sink.

it seems your biggest complaint is there is no consequence for them dying .

Indeed. Bonding is the problem, but I doubt we could vote to do away with it, so my proposal is a work around. I would agree to 10 control slots if they'd just remove bonding!

ok . maybe then we should give them some kind of temporary loss in stats and skills that works like faction statloss. that would take them out of a fight ... but not permanently.
(i could live with that)

That would be fine for PvP issues, but should you really need to sit out 15 minutes when PvM'ing?

you also seem concerned about afk farming . a valid complaint , but as others have said this is not a pet exclusive problem so taking it out on the pet will not solve the underlying issue. (the whole afk thing)

Agreed, the best fix would be to put all drops on corpses, not popping into pack. It is a tamer issue exclusively, as you can fill your pack with 125 blessed items and kill yourself, allowing your pet to continue killing, and the items will pop into bank box as your pack is full.

 

[Vaelix]

I see the OP's point...especially on Siege/Mugen.

However, I think the OP has probably never worked up a tamer. I recently came to Siege (last week) and I am already a GM mage, GM meditation, GM eval int...you know where my taming is?

61.3

Anyone can find a golem and go to town with a poison damage weapon and GM warrior skills in a matter days. GMing taming takes a long, long, time.

So, while I agree that the advantage of bonding is most certainly unfair...I think taming gains would need to be adjusted...a lot...if the devs were going to make pets essentially temporary. In addition, they would probably need to take out the "you have angred the beast"...feature...as well. How many smiths do you know that die 10 or more times making a single weapon? Taming a Greater Dragon is not like buying a crossbow or crafting a mace...it's something that takes time, and involves risk...especially on Siege/Mugen where anyone can just pick up your stuff after the GD eats you for the 3rd or 4th time.

Taming has it's rewards, but those come at some cost.

Took me 2.5 Days to go from 0 to 70 Taming.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Took me 2.5 Days to go from 0 to 70 Taming.

Well, I was working up the other skills first...so I am behind schedule. Still take forever to GM though.

 

[Vaelix]

Well, I was working up the other skills first...so I am behind schedule. Still take forever to GM though.

Once I hit rot at 70 It took no longer than any other skill to get to 110.

 

[UncleSham]

if you allow some gold sink to replentish lives it would be another advantage the very rich would hold.

the 15 min in pvm . well yes sitting there for 15 min would stink . i should have specified "killed by a player"

frankly i dont like to use my pets for pvp .
they are simply too slow .

i can outrun a dragon on foot ...my "weapon" moves at the pace of a pack horse... are people really dying to them so much ?

sure a superdragon can get a nice combo in that can flatline someone in a couple seconds . IF (and thats a big if) all 3 attacks hit simultaneously ... but you seriously cant count on it . not by a long shot.
hes more likely to run off and play with a wandering mongbat.

problem is, it happens enough that people get caught by it once in a while and then its OMG thats not FAIR !

whats not fair is their ability to chain spells with no delay. (as all spellcasting critters do)

whats not fair is that they can hit you from 3 screens away. (again all casting critters do)

these are casting issues right now . its why volums kill . its why bakes own and dreadmares are the latest flavor . you want to complain about that? fine lets campaign to fix npc casting AI.

but lets not talk about killin' off my pets .
(its not their fault they are stupid)

 

[Vaelix]

Dreads are the Flavor because you ride them, therefore they are not "Slow"

 

[UncleSham]

Dreads are the Flavor because you ride them, therefore they are not "Slow"

good point .

id be a little more sympathetic to the whole casting issue . but their speed and lack of intelligence sorta balance it out .


... except for dreads . they do have the ability to be fast ... if you are on them . but then they cant fight . so ... *shrugs*

i do own a fine dread and yes he does make a good getaway vehicle.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Once I hit rot at 70 It took no longer than any other skill to get to 110.

That's good to hear!

I did it under GGS...which means Guaranteed Goddamn Sick-of-it!

 

[Vaelix]

That's good to hear!

I did it under GGS...which means Guaranteed Goddamn Sick-of-it!

Did a Prodo Tamer recently..

4 Days to go from 85 (Advanced) to 110.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Did a Prodo Tamer recently..

4 Days to go from 85 (Advanced) to 110.

Scripting, or just have no life?

 

[Beli Mawr]

Black magick
Lore Keeper


Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Out of sight, out of mind
Posts: 951
My Mood: Re: Animal Taming Fixes - Reposted

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beli Mawr
Har... well to be fair, I wouldn't have a problem useing my Siege Bless on one of my pets of destruction.

As long as it was truely done in all fairnesss, like mages have to use their Siege Bless on their spell books.

How you all feel about fairness, when it becomes truely fair ?

If they give all mage books 100 lrc and the ability to melee for pretty good damage and cast spells themselves along with your own. Sure. Then that's fair. I'm for Night's idea (having trained up 3 tamers here and numerous on prodo) On a side note, your comparing pet ressing which requires items to memorizing an incantation is stupid at best.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Black magick; Today at 12:51 AM.

Hmmm... I guess it would be a stupid comparison, since when a mage is killed everyone leaves his regs and his arcane clothes on his body. I guess no one would ever take those things.

As I said before, fairness is in the mind of each contributor, like, what is fair to them.

 

[Hattori Hanzo]

Pets have been nerfed so badly in fights against players that anyone still crying about them should keep it to himself.

 

[Førsaken]

Pets have been nerfed so badly in fights against players that anyone still crying about them should keep it to himself.

Don't know about all that.

My dread mare wants to say hi to you. I'm sure your greater dragon would like to say hi back...

Point being, even with the the nerf stick, they still hold their purpose-Stop being sad yourself, that your greater dragon doesn't allow you to be a one trick pony anymore.

 

[Kael]

Pets have been nerfed so badly in fights against players that anyone still crying about them should keep it to himself.

Dreads are still nasty sir

 

[Hattori Hanzo]

Don't know about all that.

My dread mare wants to say hi to you. I'm sure your greater dragon would like to say hi back...

Point being, even with the the nerf stick, they still hold their purpose-Stop being sad yourself, that your greater dragon doesn't allow you to be a one trick pony anymore.

Hi!

I wasn't the one crying.

 

[Førsaken]

I am a one trick pony.

**Warning** The above quote is fabricated.

 

[Hattori Hanzo]

I am a one trick pony.

**Warning** The above quote is fabricated.

Now that is funny!

 

[Førsaken]

Thought you might like that!