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And UO slowly changes into a FTP without being one.

petemage

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Right, but the end goal is to get you subbing/spending. The grinding of store currency is to give you the technical freedom to never pay for anything, but unless you want to sink in ungodly hours grinding boring tasks you are probably going to spend money.
Yea, couldn't agree more. I just wanted to stress out that "FTP account" does not have to mean "utterly restricted trial account". If the account is too restricted without a sub, what's the point spending money in the store at all?

That's where I see UO heading into fail. Mesanna will make sure FTP accounts will be crippled, and subscription players will be happy to not get hordes of free players into their way. But will it help UO? .. who knows..

I mean, like, if it happens at all ..
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
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Yea, couldn't agree more. I just wanted to stress out that "FTP account" does not have to mean "utterly restricted trial account". If the account is too restricted without a sub, what's the point spending money in the store at all?

That's where I see UO heading into fail. Mesanna will make sure FTP accounts will be crippled, and subscription players will be happy to not get hordes of free players into their way. But will it help UO? .. who knows..

I mean, like, if it happens at all ..
I think people's idea is that they will just remove the timer from trial accounts because it would be a no development required change. I think I'd honestly prefer it that way myself, I just don't like the idea of people grinding out hours on end for what ends up having the value of pennies.
 

The Craftsman

Certifiable
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There are other ways to use the sub/f2p model

Albion Online (which I'm
Playing the beta for and enjoying very much .... full release in a couple of months) is using a soft subscription model. i.e. You can play for free but need to pay for premium to really get the full benefits. It's done in a way where premium is almost a requirement.

Premium is bought with gold (bought with $$$) but the nice thing is gold can be sold in game for silver (in game currency) so people can play with premium without a $ cost, instead earning premium through gameplay.

UO could adopt that. Make the subscription so it's toppped up using sovereigns and make sovereigns tradable for gold.
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
There are other ways to use the sub/f2p model

Albion Online (which I'm
Playing the beta for and enjoying very much .... full release in a couple of months) is using a soft subscription model. i.e. You can play for free but need to pay for premium to really get the full benefits. It's done in a way where premium is almost a requirement.

Premium is bought with gold (bought with $$$) but the nice thing is gold can be sold in game for silver (in game currency) so people can play with premium without a $ cost, instead earning premium through gameplay.

UO could adopt that. Make the subscription so it's toppped up using sovereigns and make sovereigns tradable for gold.
Yeah that's basically the STO model that was being discussed a few posts up, but in that setting you can actually farm the currency rather than just buy it. There are a few different ways to go. I still think the simplest would just be turn off the trial timer. Everything else would require a solid amount of dev time to really work right.
 

railshot

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Yeah that's basically the STO model that was being discussed a few posts up, but in that setting you can actually farm the currency rather than just buy it. There are a few different ways to go. I still think the simplest would just be turn off the trial timer. Everything else would require a solid amount of dev time to really work right.
STO makes the bulk of it's money from ship and gambling box key sales. And it's a ton of money too. The equivalent of that would be BS selling pets that are much better than naturally occurring ones, and equipment that is significantly superior to what you can find in loot.
I think a better place to look for an example of a workable f2p model would be to see how more successful freeshards do it. I am guessing that the ones that have been around a few years managed to solve the problem with housing and scripting one way or the other.
 

Acid Rain

Lore Master
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Stratics Legend
How about you log in sometime cochise and hop into vent?
I been tryin' boss !! Ft. Lauderdale Air Show this weekend so I'm out till at least Monday when I'll try some more:(.
UO won't let me log in for some reason on my gaming tower & since my laptop has no vent or macros other then recall.....
I just use the laptop to refresh my boats when I'm out of town so..... I'll try again more once I get home. Panorama.jpg
View from our hotel room last year on the beach :thumbup: & couple shots. :)
WP_20160507_002.jpg WP_20160507_003.jpg WP_20160507_004.jpg
WP_20160507_056.jpg WP_20160507_070.jpg WP_20160507_007.jpg <<---(Talk abt CLOSE !)
 

Bobar

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In the context of my original post which is about the slow change towards FTP, has anyone noticed the delightfully misleading opening line in the latest opening screen?. 'Greeting Everyone, We have increased the number of available stable slots to 42' which is in fact not so. What they have done is increased the number of stable slots which it is possible to have IF YOU ARE PREPARED TO PAY FOR THEM. This is a little different to them being available don't you think. in a game for which you pay a sub?.
 
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ShriNayne

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I'm starting to think there is a bit of forward planning going on here, with regard to the in-game store, ready for the unlimited free trial that they will probably unveil closer to the 20th anniversary. I hope they realise that serious work is needed to help totally new players navigate the game as at the moment New Haven is just not good enough. So many new and even returning players are seen wandering around Haven with no idea what they are supposed to do. Then it gets worse when they find out Despise is no more... Haven mine seems to be universally hated.
 

THP

Always Present
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Stratics Legend
extra housing tokens WILL be avaialble soon in the store Iam pretty sure....like 4.99$ to add a 7x7 to an account or say 19.99$ for a 18x18....time will tell....one add-on per account of course
 

Archnight

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extra housing tokens WILL be avaialble soon in the store Iam pretty sure....like 4.99$ to add a 7x7 to an account or say 19.99$ for a 18x18....time will tell....one add-on per account of course
I highly doubt that will ever happen and with reason, they would lose a lot of subscription money as many people cycle dummy accounts just to hold an extra house. Losing 60$+ a year doesn't justify a one time 20$ fee
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
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extra housing tokens WILL be avaialble soon in the store Iam pretty sure....like 4.99$ to add a 7x7 to an account or say 19.99$ for a 18x18....time will tell....one add-on per account of course
Those prices seem really low if you look at the stable slot price. More like 19.99 for a 7x7 99$ for a 18x18, and 199$ for a Castle. Think of the revenue!
 
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ShriNayne

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I remember back to just after AoS people used to sell small houses on Ebay! They were pretty over-priced for what they were.... but they still sold! :(
 

MalagAste

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I remember back to just after AoS people used to sell small houses on Ebay! They were pretty over-priced for what they were.... but they still sold! :(
Yep, back when the price of Gold Per Mill was $20-25... I remember that very well. Back when 5 million to me was a small fortune and I thought no way in **** I'm paying $125 dollars for a tiny 7x7 small tower... I kept thinking I have GOT to figure out how to make money.
 

Acid Rain

Lore Master
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1999 small houses sold on Ebay for around $200 if I remember correctly (memory being hazy). Back when gold sold for $45-50 per million.
 

THP

Always Present
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Stratics Legend
I highly doubt that will ever happen and with reason, they would lose a lot of subscription money as many people cycle dummy accounts just to hold an extra house. Losing 60$+ a year doesn't justify a one time 20$ fee
but people can have twice as many dummy houses are would be able to have a 2nd house on another shard....as most players do atl and there true home shard...interting ideas though
 

MalagAste

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Yeah back when almost literally every housing spot was taken. Miss those days.
I don't... I would think that population/space wise (though maybe we should wait till this Endless Journey stuff is going and see if there is any influx of population) but given the population size I would think we could at least go back to where you could have 1 house per account, Per Shard.... maybe. Or just allow everyone 2 houses Per account. I still say they should allow folk to have up to 32x32 space... regardless of how many houses that takes them. So if someone wanted to play on multiple shards and have houses they could do 2 10x10's and a 12x12 or 3 7x7's and a 11x11. Just a thought.
 

The Craftsman

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Stratics Legend
I still say they should allow folk to have up to 32x32 space... regardless of how many houses that takes them. So if someone wanted to play on multiple shards and have houses they could do 2 10x10's and a 12x12 or 3 7x7's and a 11x11. Just a thought.
Careful ... the castle owners will get triggered as they wouldnt get a second house under this proposal. Despite having the biggest houses and largest storage theyre already butt hurt about not being able to customise. This might tip them over the edge.
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I don't... I would think that population/space wise (though maybe we should wait till this Endless Journey stuff is going and see if there is any influx of population) but given the population size I would think we could at least go back to where you could have 1 house per account, Per Shard.... maybe. Or just allow everyone 2 houses Per account. I still say they should allow folk to have up to 32x32 space... regardless of how many houses that takes them. So if someone wanted to play on multiple shards and have houses they could do 2 10x10's and a 12x12 or 3 7x7's and a 11x11. Just a thought.
Oh, no doubt. I really don't doubt they will find a way to sell us an extra house at some point. Half the houses standing are probably owned by inactive players who just keep paying to keep their house up incase they want to come back, or people who play regularly and have house holder accounts that are only paid every 3 months.

Then there's siege that's full of houses people from other shards placed because they could, despite having zero plans to every play there. One person that posts here who must have at least 20 accounts that has a whole area taken over with themed houses that have sat designed (at least there's that) and never used for years. :/
 

Dol'Gorath

Grand Inquisitor
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Stratics Legend
No. Having more housing littering the place doesnt make activity. People wouild place, then go play where they always do.
Basically what happened to Siege. People placed because they could and went back to where they came from and never play there, leaving the shard with empty houses taking up valuable real estate. So opening the ability to place an extra house on Siege did more harm than good.
 

transcendent

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Basically what happened to Siege. People placed because they could and went back to where they came from and never play there, leaving the shard with empty houses taking up valuable real estate. So opening the ability to place an extra house on Siege did more harm than good.
I think that also has to do with the Siege rules. It is much harder to get started with just one character, and the RoT system is a big deterrent.
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
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I think that also has to do with the Siege rules. It is much harder to get started with just one character, and the RoT system is a big deterrent.
I think it has more to do with simply being separate and free than it does with the ruleset. Many of the people who placed a new house had zero intention of playing on siege, or if they did it was a "just in case" sort of thing, because there are hundreds of unused undesigned houses, that showed up, and are still sitting there taking spots that should go to full time siege players. They just placed because they could, and there was no drawback in placing. Just free potential value.

A second house slot would get used in the same way in some cases I am sure, just taking up real estate because it's limited, even if they had no specific intent to use it, but I think the majority of players would use a second house if they bought the token. Of course, they already make a ton off of house holder accounts I am sure, so I don't know. It would probably be an extra monthly cost, rather than a one time fee, unless the fee was large enough to balance out over the expected years of game life.

I would advocate again, that if you have a siege house that you don't use, that's just an unimproved dirt plot... please drop it. Even if it's a "oh I might check it out eventually" sort of thing... there will be housing spots open when if you ever want to play. Let siege people get the first pick.
 

Wing Zero Straight Edge

Seasoned Veteran
I'm starting to think there is a bit of forward planning going on here, with regard to the in-game store, ready for the unlimited free trial that they will probably unveil closer to the 20th anniversary. I hope they realise that serious work is needed to help totally new players navigate the game as at the moment New Haven is just not good enough. So many new and even returning players are seen wandering around Haven with no idea what they are supposed to do. Then it gets worse when they find out Despise is no more... Haven mine seems to be universally hated.
Not to mention help chat is where the bottom feeders hangout and hate on each other about personal out of game reasons, I'm sure newbies and returnees loving reading that garbage.
I saw someone ask on help chat yesterday "Anyone know of guilds recruiting?" "The biggest scum bag in game who hangs in help chat replies "nah they're all crap don't bother with this dead game"
The same player also copies and pastes his music list playing in the help chat, because that's so helpful and all?
 

ShriNayne

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I think we were better off without global chat, it's pretty awful in most MMO's and I have no idea why Broadsword introduced it when so many people were glad there was at least this one game that didn't have it... the only people who seem to have it on all the time are the people who delight in making other people unhappy!
 

Wing Zero Straight Edge

Seasoned Veteran
I think we were better off without global chat, it's pretty awful in most MMO's and I have no idea why Broadsword introduced it when so many people were glad there was at least this one game that didn't have it... the only people who seem to have it on all the time are the people who delight in making other people unhappy!
Do we not have moderators here? -___-
 

Archnight

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Do we not have moderators here? -___-
Do we not have moderators here? Yes :). If a post or thread needs to be moderated you just hit that "Report" button on the bottom left, but honestly i'm not seeing anything wrong on this page... do you??
 

ShriNayne

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We have moderators here on stratics, but I have no idea whether anyone moderates global chat in-game, I would assume from the way people carry on there is nobody official reading it or taking action. It's a very bad atmosphere for new players, that's for sure! :(
 

Lore

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We have moderators here on stratics, but I have no idea whether anyone moderates global chat in-game, I would assume from the way people carry on there is nobody official reading it or taking action. It's a very bad atmosphere for new players, that's for sure! :(
I thought they stayed out of the help channel and the default new player channel. I like the global chat personally. I also like having a discord voice channel. People are less rude when speaking out loud.
 

Captn Norrington

Stratics Forum Moderator
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There is no one monitoring in game general chat and help chat unfortunately. The only way any UO GM's will see it is if you report someone in chat, and a GM happens to log in fast enough to see them doing it for themselves or looks up the chat logs.
 

GarthGrey

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People say some pretty bad stuff in gc as you are aware . I've never seen anything done about it. The most horrible thing I've ever heard anyone say in gc resulted in nothing happening to the player at all, and yes it was reported. In fact he's still loved by many people on our shard, has a nice vendor shop set up that he advertises on, business as usual :) But I'm shunned for being overly outspoken.
 

Dol'Gorath

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I think it has more to do with simply being separate and free than it does with the ruleset. Many of the people who placed a new house had zero intention of playing on siege, or if they did it was a "just in case" sort of thing, because there are hundreds of unused undesigned houses, that showed up, and are still sitting there taking spots that should go to full time siege players. They just placed because they could, and there was no drawback in placing. Just free potential value.

A second house slot would get used in the same way in some cases I am sure, just taking up real estate because it's limited, even if they had no specific intent to use it, but I think the majority of players would use a second house if they bought the token. Of course, they already make a ton off of house holder accounts I am sure, so I don't know. It would probably be an extra monthly cost, rather than a one time fee, unless the fee was large enough to balance out over the expected years of game life.

I would advocate again, that if you have a siege house that you don't use, that's just an unimproved dirt plot... please drop it. Even if it's a "oh I might check it out eventually" sort of thing... there will be housing spots open when if you ever want to play. Let siege people get the first pick.

I don't play Siege and I told the devs this would be a bad idea. Its kind of why I am against second houses on production shards because people will do the same thing. At least charging for them keeps the numbers down some.
 

Keith of Sonoma

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In the context of my original post which is about the slow change towards FTP, has anyone noticed the delightfully misleading opening line in the latest opening screen?. 'Greeting Everyone, We have increased the number of available stable slots to 42' which is in fact not so. What they have done is increased the number of stable slots which it is possible to have IF YOU ARE PREPARED TO PAY FOR THEM. This is a little different to them being available don't you think. in a game for which you pay a sub?.
I noticed that. You are correct. It is VERY misleading. It would be the same as saying "'Greeting Everyone, We have increased the number of available character slots to 7" OH WAIT, you have to buy the 7th one. @Mesanna @Bleak @Kyronix
 

Conleth

Seasoned Veteran
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You're a mod on here yeah mate? Would they hire you to Mod game chat to?
The boards here at Stratics aren't officially tied to UO...and whilst no doubt the moderators here would do an excellent job of moderating anywhere they put their minds to it; UO hasn't had official forums for some years now. They do have a peek here, and occasionally you'll see a post or a thumbs up here, but it's fairly uncommon. UO gen chat has no official moderation - it is 'use at your own discretion' (and the 'discretion' of others!)...
Cheers!
Conny
 

MissEcho

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I don't play Siege and I told the devs this would be a bad idea. Its kind of why I am against second houses on production shards because people will do the same thing. At least charging for them keeps the numbers down some.
Depends on how you look at, I am playing siege and I wouldn't if they hadn't allowed extra houses there. I do think that to 'keep' a house on siege you should have to log in there at least once a month or whatever to refresh it, but to stop this being 'unfair' to permanent siege players perhaps they should make 'main house as per normal and second house 'nominated' and only the second house has to be refreshed monthly. So siege players can have their 'main' house on siege and have to refresh any prodo house in return. Has to work both ways.
 

Captn Norrington

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You're a mod on here yeah mate? Would they hire you to Mod game chat to?
Conleth summed it up pretty well above this post, even though I am a moderator here on Stratics this website is entirely run by unpaid volunteers who are players. None of us actually work for UO. I would gladly moderate the general chat of UO for free if they wanted me to, but they wouldn't hire someone for that. UO has had some bad experiences with volunteers who have any real power in the past. Years ago they hired unpaid volunteers to help with stuff like this called seers and counselors, but then some of those volunteers sued UO... they won quite a bit of money. After that UO stopped allowing volunteers to help with anything of much importance.

The game only has like 4 developers and 2 GM's left, they seem to be on a pretty tight budget and would probably be unable to actually pay someone just to moderate chat.

I greatly appreciate that you think I'd be a good in game chat moderator though :)
 

Restroom Cowboy

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Not to mention help chat is where the bottom feeders hangout and hate on each other about personal out of game reasons, I'm sure newbies and returnees loving reading that garbage.
I saw someone ask on help chat yesterday "Anyone know of guilds recruiting?" "The biggest scum bag in game who hangs in help chat replies "nah they're all crap don't bother with this dead game"
The same player also copies and pastes his music list playing in the help chat, because that's so helpful and all?
Welcome to UO. Keep in mind a number players have had close to if not 20 years to hone their skill sets, which include: pvm, pvp, trolling, theft, salesmanship, banksitting, scamming, being an a$$h**e or any combination of the former. 20 years is plenty of time to learn to be a proper di*k.

Imagine what some of these trolls could have done had they only decided to pick up a guitar instead.
 

Wing Zero Straight Edge

Seasoned Veteran
Welcome to UO. Keep in mind a number players have had close to if not 20 years to hone their skill sets, which include: pvm, pvp, trolling, theft, salesmanship, banksitting, scamming, being an a$$h**e or any combination of the former. 20 years is plenty of time to learn to be a proper di*k.

Imagine what some of these trolls could have done had they only decided to pick up a guitar instead.
we'd have amazing rock stars!
 

Wing Zero Straight Edge

Seasoned Veteran
Conleth summed it up pretty well above this post, even though I am a moderator here on Stratics this website is entirely run by unpaid volunteers who are players. None of us actually work for UO. I would gladly moderate the general chat of UO for free if they wanted me to, but they wouldn't hire someone for that. UO has had some bad experiences with volunteers who have any real power in the past. Years ago they hired unpaid volunteers to help with stuff like this called seers and counselors, but then some of those volunteers sued UO... they won quite a bit of money. After that UO stopped allowing volunteers to help with anything of much importance.

The game only has like 4 developers and 2 GM's left, they seem to be on a pretty tight budget and would probably be unable to actually pay someone just to moderate chat.

I greatly appreciate that you think I'd be a good in game chat moderator though :)
No probs mate!
You guys seem to do a spot on job here so in game i think you'd kill it as a mod, heck I feel better knowing we had them.
I can dream I guess haha
 

MalagAste

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The way I figure it there are roughly 4 sets of people left in UO, the totally naive, the Scammers who can't scam anywhere but UO because NO WHERE else will tolerate that sort of crap, those who play UO to make a buck... and those who love the game so much they can't bear to leave it. Most of those know it's swirling the drain but they still can't walk away.... many of them are thinking about all those $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ they have invested in the last 20 years and they just can't walk away.
 
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