[Throwing] Advice on balancing out Throwing, Mysticism and Spellweaving on a Gargoyle ?

[popps]

Mysticism and Throwing are skills tailored on a Gargoyle.

Can they co-exist on the same Template ? How ?

An example.....

Mysticism is a spell casting skill and the good spells, like raising colossus, require quite some mana (50)...

On the other end, Throwing is designed so that the higher the strength, the bigger the range at which the weapon can be thrown. Not to mention, that high dexterity (stamina) helps in the throwing of the weapon.

How to best balance the stats without harming too much either the spell casting or the weapon throwing then ?

Also, as in regards to the template, having imbuing seems to help the Mysticism spellcasting. But that takes 120 skill points....

How to fit in also Throwing, Tactics and Anatomy so that the damage done with the weapon is not too low ?

Especially, if one wants to have also spellweaving which is nice for the health regen, the gift of life, the word of death...

Of course, the template should have some magery to recall and cast greater heals...

Bottom line is, where to find the best balance to reach a compromise that might get the best from all various abilities without penalizing too much either of them in favour of the other ?

The other difficulty is in regards to both armor and weapons artifacts which, for a Gargoyle, are still scarce being the race a recent addition to Ultima Online.

Thank you for the advice.

 

[Klapauc]

gm throwing
gm mysticism
gm imbuing
gm tactics
gm anatomy
gm magery
gm spellweaving
-----------------
700 skillpoints

You see, i was able to fit all your requested skills in a 700 point template. No problem here. Now please move back to uhall.

 

[popps]

gm throwing
gm mysticism
gm imbuing
gm tactics
gm anatomy
gm magery
gm spellweaving
-----------------
700 skillpoints

You see, i was able to fit all your requested skills in a 700 point template. No problem here. Now please move back to uhall.

Uhu ?

Mysticism with no Focus ??

Besides, I doubt that not having 120 Mysticism the Rising Colossus will be of much help...

I also see problems in finding the best balancing among strength, intelligence and dexterity. Throwing would like as much strength and dexterity as possible, also to increase the Throwing range, but then also Mysticism will need mana to cast spells and for special moves...

Ain't there any better way to balance those skills and stats ?

 

[Klapauc]

You didnt ask about focus. And with mysticism you can use either focus or imbuing.
The answer i gave you makes as much sense as the template you are asking for. You would know that if you would actually play the game.

 

[popps]

You didnt ask about focus. And with mysticism you can use either focus or imbuing.
The answer i gave you makes as much sense as the template you are asking for. You would know that if you would actually play the game.

Is this Forum only for soloing Sampires or variations of it or is the "Warrior" Forum for any possible combination of skills intended at fighting ??

If this Forum is only intended for Sampires and soloing fighters then I apologize for the wrong posting.

I know that the combination of skills I am asking about is not as effective as a Sampire or variations of it to solo MoBs, but I am trying to have a template that might be more versatile and less monotonous. Not efficient perhaps, but more fun, IMHO.

The Sampire basically is a hitter that gets back what is needed (health, mana etc.) through hitting. Occasionally drinks potions and makes use of bandages.
Build the right suit and the right weapon and then just go bash some target.

I was thinking of a template that handles a more varied way of hunting.

I am sorry if this is the wrong Forum but then which would it be the right one ?

 

[Cetric]

Mysticism and Throwing are skills tailored on a Gargoyle.

Can they co-exist on the same Template ? How ?

An example.....

Mysticism is a spell casting skill and the good spells, like raising colossus, require quite some mana (50)...

On the other end, Throwing is designed so that the higher the strength, the bigger the range at which the weapon can be thrown. Not to mention, that high dexterity (stamina) helps in the throwing of the weapon.

How to best balance the stats without harming too much either the spell casting or the weapon throwing then ?

Also, as in regards to the template, having imbuing seems to help the Mysticism spellcasting. But that takes 120 skill points....

How to fit in also Throwing, Tactics and Anatomy so that the damage done with the weapon is not too low ?

Especially, if one wants to have also spellweaving which is nice for the health regen, the gift of life, the word of death...

Of course, the template should have some magery to recall and cast greater heals...

Bottom line is, where to find the best balance to reach a compromise that might get the best from all various abilities without penalizing too much either of them in favour of the other ?

The other difficulty is in regards to both armor and weapons artifacts which, for a Gargoyle, are still scarce being the race a recent addition to Ultima Online.

Thank you for the advice.

Sounds like a pretty worthless character lol

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Max range is I believe now at 140 Str.

Max swing for Soul Glaive's requires 180 Stamina and 45 SSI.

With LMC Colossus will not need 50 Mana. I think it will only need 30 something.

If you forget the Magery and use Chivalry you will be able to Sacred Journey as well as buffing your Throwing attacks.

Focus is a better option than Imbuing as it will give you Stamina and Mana Regens.

The suit will be hard enough to build with LRC that trying to get 2/6 on there as well is unlikely. As such you may as well play in Protection which caps FC at 0, you will need to overcap physical resist on your suit by 15. Protection makes your spells uninterruptable.

You will also have the benefit of Stone Form, which at 120 Mysticism/120 Focus does the following: -10 SSI, -2 FC (doesn't go to -2), +10 all resists,+5 all resists caps (meaning you can be all 75 resists) +20 DI which exceeds both item and spell/slayer caps so you will want 100 DI on items, while making you immune to Poison and stat curses. It also says in the book that it prevents Bleed and Strangle but there seems to be a bug at the moment where that doesn't work vs some monsters.

You will probably want Altered Mace & Shield Glasses, a Berserker's Breastplate, Crimson and Primer or Conjurer's Trinket.

Also, you won't be able to cast Mysticism spells without Spell Channeling on the weapon (at least not without the weaopn falling out of your hands) but the Mysticism spell Enchant will make the weapon SC -1 FC, and also let you have 60 Hit Spell in a spell of your choice (fireball/dispel/lightning etc), Enchant lasts 2 minutes, but as you will lilkely only be using it to dump Colossus thats plenty.

The Spellweaving is probably spreading the template too thin to work.

 

[popps]

Max range is I believe now at 140 Str.

Max swing for Soul Glaive's requires 180 Stamina and 45 SSI.

With LMC Colossus will not need 50 Mana. I think it will only need 30 something.

If you forget the Magery and use Chivalry you will be able to Sacred Journey as well as buffing your Throwing attacks.

Focus is a better option than Imbuing as it will give you Stamina and Mana Regens.

The suit will be hard enough to build with LRC that trying to get 2/6 on there as well is unlikely. As such you may as well play in Protection which caps FC at 0, you will need to overcap physical resist on your suit by 15. Protection makes your spells uninterruptable.

You will also have the benefit of Stone Form, which at 120 Mysticism/120 Focus does the following: -10 SSI, -2 FC (doesn't go to -2), +10 all resists,+5 all resists caps (meaning you can be all 75 resists) +20 DI which exceeds both item and spell/slayer caps so you will want 100 DI on items, while making you immune to Poison and stat curses. It also says in the book that it prevents Bleed and Strangle but there seems to be a bug at the moment where that doesn't work vs some monsters.

You will probably want Altered Mace & Shield Glasses, a Berserker's Breastplate, Crimson and Primer or Conjurer's Trinket.

Also, you won't be able to cast Mysticism spells without Spell Channeling on the weapon (at least not without the weaopn falling out of your hands) but the Mysticism spell Enchant will make the weapon SC -1 FC, and also let you have 60 Hit Spell in a spell of your choice (fireball/dispel/lightning etc), Enchant lasts 2 minutes, but as you will lilkely only be using it to dump Colossus thats plenty.

The Spellweaving is probably spreading the template too thin to work.

Thanks a lot for the good help and advice. I want to really try it out and see how much fun I can get with it. Will take a while to get it done though, enough to keep me busy with the game I guess, for sometime....

For now will scrap Spellweaving though, I really like several spells it has..........

 

[RaistlinNowhere]

Hi popps. im actually making a throwing-mystic char so ill post mine if that can help you :

throwing 120
anatomy 110
tactics 115
mystic 115 (+15 in jewel)
focus 120
chival 65
heal 90
-------
720

About the suit i have made is :

DCI 45
HCI 40 (have 5 hci extra from being garg and using throwing so total is 45)
LMC 40
HPI 15
MI 21
MR 8 ( 16 mr total from racial and focus)
STAM INC 37
STR 9
DI 60
SSI 20 (berseker breastplate + ring + wing armor )
LRC 100

And for stats is :

str = 110 (ill use str potions to helping range)
Life = 120
Stam = 145 ( will hit every 2 sec with soul glaive, i know isnt max swing, but will be max with cyclone )
mana = 70

I wont run out of mana cause mr and HML, so that wont be a problem, and spell chann wont be a prob neither cause ill use enchant weapon )

Ill use invis potions as well for mobs losing target.

This char isnt for came the best hitter or the best caster, but it will have one nice combo of coloso + throwing + chival

i hope this can help you to get a better idea of this char ^^

 

[popps]

i hope this can help you to get a better idea of this char ^^

Thank you very much, it certainly adds usefull help and advice towards the goal.

By the way, I have seen throwers using human characters rather than gargoyles.

I thought that for Mysticism and Throwing using a Gargoyle would have yielded the best results but apparently the advantage is not noticeable if others are using humans ?

Thanks.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

You can't use Throwing on a human. You can't even eat the powerscroll for it while human. I think you were either mistaken or someone was playing around with Polymorph.

 

[popps]

You can't use Throwing on a human. You can't even eat the powerscroll for it while human. I think you were either mistaken or someone was playing around with Polymorph.

That is possible then.

So there is no particular bonus for a Gargoyle using Mysticism or Throwing ?

I mean, Throwing is limited to Gargoyle and Mysticism is the same whether a Gargole uses the spells or another race does it ?

 

[Lynk]

That is possible then.

So there is no particular bonus for a Gargoyle using Mysticism or Throwing ?

I mean, Throwing is limited to Gargoyle and Mysticism is the same whether a Gargole uses the spells or another race does it ?

srsyly bro?

u r srs?

 

[RaistlinNowhere]

human and garg can use the mystic spells as equal, but as i remember, gagr have some sdi bonus toward mystic, but dunno if this was changed when they changed garg racials

 

[popps]

srsyly bro?

u r srs?

Well, considering that sometimes there is "hidden features" within games and that these particular skills were indicated as peculiar of Gargoyles I would not be surprised of anything....

No, it would not surprise me if I got to learn, for example, that casting Mysticism spells with a Gargoyle used less mana, or had a stronger effect, or that their learning of the skill was faster as compared to other races, whatever. Even if this was not written anywhere, in no notes, whatever.

It would not be the first time and will not be the last time that something in a given game is a "hidden feature" or whatever. Not likely, I can agree with that, but not impossible.

 

[Ender]

dear god do you even play this game


I remember seeing a post on UHall recently theorizing that you're a poorly functioning AI that only exists on these boards


I wouldn't be surprised tbh

 

[RaistlinNowhere]

So there is no particular bonus for a Gargoyle using Mysticism or Throwing ?

I mean, Throwing is limited to Gargoyle and Mysticism is the same whether a Gargole uses the spells or another race does it ?

Well garg have 5 hci extra bonus for throwing , so you can have 40 hci at your suit, and about mystic, have read that they changed the sdi bonus they had, for a basic knowledge on mystic spells with 0 mystic.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Gargoyles have a racial ability called Mystic Insight, this is like having an unseen 30 skill points in Mysticism, (similar to JOAT for humans), this ability also gives 2 MR.

Gargoyles have a racial ability called Deadly Aim, this is like having an unseen 30 skill points in Throwing, it also gives 5 HCI and a 5 HCI cap increase. A gargoyle with 45 HCI equipped on items would have 50 HCI.

Mysticism is a skill available to any race.
Throwing is a skill only available to Gargoyles.

 

[Scoobs]

Only posting to thank Lord God for taking the time to share his knowledge.

 

[popps]

Gargoyles have a racial ability called Mystic Insight, this is like having an unseen 30 skill points in Mysticism, (similar to JOAT for humans), this ability also gives 2 MR.

Gargoyles have a racial ability called Deadly Aim, this is like having an unseen 30 skill points in Throwing, it also gives 5 HCI and a 5 HCI cap increase. A gargoyle with 45 HCI equipped on items would have 50 HCI.

Mysticism is a skill available to any race.
Throwing is a skill only available to Gargoyles.

Thank you for the clarification, it is knowledge that can come very handy when building up a Thrower or a Mystic.

 

[popps]

Max range is I believe now at 140 Str.

Max swing for Soul Glaive's requires 180 Stamina and 45 SSI.

With LMC Colossus will not need 50 Mana. I think it will only need 30 something.

Since I would like to keep a bit more mana than the bare minimum, is there anywhere that I can look for all details as in regards to :

- Max range tied to strength ;

- Max swing tied to Stamina and Swing Speed Increase ;

So that I figure out the next step down the very best max range/max swing to allow me a bit more mana...

Also, considering the artifacts out there for Gargoyles, which stat am I better off getting it mostly through items rather than real ?

If you forget the Magery and use Chivalry you will be able to Sacred Journey as well as buffing your Throwing attacks.

Considering that Enemy of One needs 45 Chivalry, is there any item that carries Chivalry points which I could possibly use or will I need to imbue skill onto jewellery to save up for some real skill points in the other skills ?

Thank you again for all kind help.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Since I would like to keep a bit more mana than the bare minimum, is there anywhere that I can look for all details as in regards to :

- Max range tied to strength ;

- Max swing tied to Stamina and Swing Speed Increase ;

Probably not. There was a thread somewhere with all the details of the Throwing formulas though it was mostly out of date as there were a lot of changes made to Throwing that haven't been in patch notes.

There is a swing speed calculator on stratics. Though I use my own. 150 Stam and 40 SSI would give you 1.75s delay.

Mana is rarely a problem for a Thrower as you usually hit 200+ so leech well.

Also, considering the artifacts out there for Gargoyles, which stat am I better off getting it mostly through items rather than real ?

You're not better off with any, they're all equal.

Considering that Enemy of One needs 45 Chivalry, is there any item that carries Chivalry points which I could possibly use or will I need to imbue skill onto jewellery to save up for some real skill points in the other skills ?

You should be able to alter a Luna Lance to Gargoyle only, that has 10 Chivalry.

 

[RaistlinNowhere]

Well the artifacts i consider is a must for a garg thrower is the berserker breastplate (garg version of tinker lergs) and the ssi wing armor

 

[popps]

You should be able to alter a Luna Lance to Gargoyle only, that has 10 Chivalry.

I was hoping for some armor artifact rather than a weapon because using the lance will mean having to create a macro to unequip throwing weapon, equip lance, cast EoO, unequip lance, equip throwing weapon and use it each and every time I need to cast EoO.....a pain......

Perhaps the better option then is sacrificing a mod slot on jewellery and put 15 chivalry there...

 

[Barry Gibb]

There is a shield named Sign of Order, which gives +10 Chivalry. You will probably want 65 Chivalry, as to never fail Sacred Journey. Chivalry of 75 is plenty to cast EoO frequently, which should be good enough due to its long duration.

It sounds like you may be trying to cram too much though, but best of luck. You can always use TC, since it has the artifacts you can play around with.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Abercoby]

Hi popps. im actually making a throwing-mystic char so ill post mine if that can help you :

throwing 120
anatomy 110
tactics 115
mystic 115 (+15 in jewel)
focus 120
chival 65
heal 90
-------
720

About the suit i have made is :

DCI 45
HCI 40 (have 5 hci extra from being garg and using throwing so total is 45)
LMC 40
HPI 15
MI 21
MR 8 ( 16 mr total from racial and focus)
STAM INC 37
STR 9
DI 60
SSI 20 (berseker breastplate + ring + wing armor )
LRC 100

And for stats is :

str = 110 (ill use str potions to helping range)
Life = 120
Stam = 145 ( will hit every 2 sec with soul glaive, i know isnt max swing, but will be max with cyclone )
mana = 70

I wont run out of mana cause mr and HML, so that wont be a problem, and spell chann wont be a prob neither cause ill use enchant weapon )

Ill use invis potions as well for mobs losing target.

This char isnt for came the best hitter or the best caster, but it will have one nice combo of coloso + throwing + chival

i hope this can help you to get a better idea of this char ^^

It's a very interesting template Raist, what items are you using btw?

 

[popps]

There is a shield named Sign of Order, which gives +10 Chivalry. You will probably want 65 Chivalry, as to never fail Sacred Journey. Chivalry of 75 is plenty to cast EoO frequently, which should be good enough due to its long duration.

It sounds like you may be trying to cram too much though, but best of luck. You can always use TC, since it has the artifacts you can play around with.

Stayin Alive,

BG

Thank you for pointing it out. The 5% HCI is a nice addition though, I must say, the lack of spell channeling makes it annoying to be used as it will need to be re-equipped after each spell cast......

I wonder why such a shield has been designed without spell channeling as default in the first place.
I mean, clearly, having the +10 Chivalry it was designed for Chivalry usage. And, chivalry requires quite a lot of spellcasting (consecrate weapon, enemy of one etc.)

It beats me why a shield specifically designed for Chivalry is then missing the spell channelling mod. Go figure.....

I wonder whether it is imbuable.

 

[RaistlinNowhere]

umm as far as i know , you dont need spell chan for chival

and if you want to add spellweaving to my template is easy.

throwing 120
anatomy 100
tactics 115
mystic 115 (+15 in jewel)
focus 120
chival 65
spellweaving 115 (+15 in jewel)
-------
720

You dont have heal, but with cleansing wings, life stone, potions, and spellweaving heal, wont need it. (and for healing you will use cleansing wngs 90% of the time hehehe )

If you see that dont need to use potions, then ca use the mystic guard shield :

Soul Charge 30%
Spell Channeling
Defense Chance Increase 10%
Faster Cast Recovery 2

Physical Resist 10%
Energy Resist 1%

It will help you to get 85 phy like me, for using protection scrolls.

 

[RaistlinNowhere]

About the suit i use :

folded glasses
imbued necklace
berseker breastplate
imbued kilt
imbued arms
imbued legs

warden wing armor (ssi one)
turquoise ring
imbued bracelet

conjurer garb
conjurer trinket
crimsom
corgul sash


Due to the high resist of garg crafted pieces, dont need to imbue any resist on it, only imbued 3 resist at the necklace.

I have 85 phy cause i use protection scrolls.
And the mods of the suit as i said are :

DCI 45
HCI 40 (have 5 hci extra from being garg and using throwing so total is 45)
LMC 40
HPI 15
MI 21
MR 8 ( 16 mr total from racial and focus)
STAM INC 37
STR 9
DI 60
SSI 20 (berseker breastplate + ring + wing armor )
LRC 100

I dont use shield cause i want to use potions.

 

[popps]

umm as far as i know , you dont need spell chan for chival

Could well be the case, I use mostly real skill templates and hardly rely on skill points on armor or weapons. Besides, I do not recall using a shield in a very long time....

Usually all I use is a weapon whether one or 2-handed but most times they are one handed as they are faster.....

Edit. No need to unequip when casting Chivalry spells. Mysticism spells or Spellweaving spells even if the shield is not spell channelling but, unfortunately, when casting magery spells the shield is automatically unequipped.

It seems there is an exception for magery that requires spell channelling. Go figure why.

 

[[JD]]

Well the artifacts i consider is a must for a garg thrower is the berserker breastplate (garg version of tinker lergs) and the ssi wing armor

^add mace and shield to that = win

 

[RaistlinNowhere]

umm have been the mace and shield bug been resolved?

 

[[JD]]

months ago. it goes off now and you hear the sound effect