A virtuous discussion?

[Maplestone]

The virtues: are they mere words or a philosophy to live by? Are they a source of strength or a description of who you are? Are they tasks to undertake or a ritual set of motions to earn rewards? Are they an end in themselves or a code that guides one through the trials and tribulations of our perilous world?

There are many different philosophies in the UO universe (avatar's virtues, gargoyles, ophidian, Mandrake the bard's wine-women-song system etc) that grow out of the same root system: 3 principles and a binary combination of their presence or absence gives rise to 8 virtues.

The avatar's system is obviously the most developed: we have shrines, cities, opposing dungeons, runes, companions and sigils ... all this lore but none of it is actually used in the virtue systems we have except the decorative runes.

Personally I liked the idea of the candle of love events ... go the shrines for quests to earn the sigils, take the sigils to unlock access to a quest for an artifact based on one of the principles (candle/book/bell). Just add one more layer for a final quest of some sort and you'd have something nice and symmetrical.

I also liked the old gypsy quiz ... there were no right or wrong answers, you just end up attuned to one virtue over another. You could dot the land with little "choice quests" like this and change the virtue system to a loyalty-like system.

What would you prefer? To just fill in the gaps in the current system and move on, or rebuild the virtue system in some new model?

 

[Corwin]

8 Virtues??? 8 Virtues???

Don't be silly. Everyone who has played this game during the last ten years knows that there is only 5 virtues!

 

[mjolnir131]

8 Virtues??? 8 Virtues???

Don't be silly. Everyone who has played this game during the last ten years knows that there is only 5 virtues!

game,set,match

 

[northwoodschopper]

i'd rather see the whole virtue bit scrapped and replanned fully. let's be honest, the virtues we have now are meh at best.

i'd also like to see negative values in the virtues, where it will show players that are dishonest, cowardly, hythloth, etc.

 

[Frarc]

There should be several quests in every Virtue town that is linked with the right Virtue. Doing these quests should raise the Virtue from that town but can drop a diferent Virtue. Sometimes we have to make a choice.Finding the right balance between all Virtues will be a difficult task.

There should be multiple ways to gain in a certain Virtue or loose it.


Following the Virtues should be a choice you life and not a way you accidenlty stumble into with doing something.

 

[Uriah Heep]

What would you prefer? To just fill in the gaps in the current system and move on, or rebuild the virtue system in some new model?

Maybe a combination of the two ideas? Each virtue stems from a combination of the principles, maybe make it so you can carry , say, three virtues to their highest levels, and then get a bonus if they all are based on the same principle? That could be the next depth level mentioned. I don't know, but it does seem we need some changes and additions to make the virtues here as important as they were in history. And for em to have some real impact, not just, say, a bonus to HPs when you rez someone :0

And off topic, when I saw the title "A Virtuous Discussion", my first thought was:


Is It legal to have one of those in UHALL?!?!?!

 

[Sabbath]

Several great ideas here so far. I'm all for the Virtues being a truly major aspect to UO and I vote for Maplestone to be hired on to create the system and write the stories

 

[Viquire]

Several great ideas here so far. I'm all for the Virtues being a truly major aspect to UO and I vote for Maplestone to be hired on to create the system and write the stories

I'm in! No Monte Hall would he be, but content I feel would be deep and compelling.

 

[Xenobia]

I'm in! No Monte Hall would he be, but content I feel would be deep and compelling.

I agree with you. Just based on what Maplestone wrote says enough.

 

[Maplestone]

aww

That would be a very cool challenge, but I don't get a sense that they're looking for freelance armchair developers.

( If I'm wrong, PM me! )

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Scrap what we've got and put in a quest-based system that involves the towns, dungeons and shrines appropriately.

 

[MalagAste]

But I enjoy being a Knight of Sacrifice...... also..... What happens to the Knight of Virtue who wants to be a true Knight of Virtue and having full use and knowledge of all of the Virtues...

I don't want to be limited to just one or two... I'm a Royal Knight of Virtue... it's my duty to follow all of them.... not just one or two...

While I agree it would be nice if they reworked the virtue system and all... I think it would be bad to take away.

I also like the idea of some sort of "anti" virtue system.... for those of the realm who follow Chaos...

However... that said... being "evil" and such should have "consequences" of some sort.

We shouldn't reward theives and murderers... too much.

 

[AaronTheAssassin]

However... that said... being "evil" and such should have "consequences" of some sort.

We shouldn't reward theives and murderers... too much.

By consequences, I assume you mean that we gain our own reward system...

Im so Deceitful I can cause an Honor-like Good Monster ignore due to me being so nonchalant about being evil, that pixies and the like ignore me.

Im so Despised that I am talked about like a red.

Im so Dishonest, that I can Feign Death like a Compassion Res.

Im so Greedy, that I can gain extra Gold off monsters and NPC Sold Goods

Im so Cowardly, that I can "Flee" (recall) to a town without a "Wouldst you flee from the heat of battle?" message preventing me.

Im so Wrong, that I am now a murderer.

I dunno about Non-Spiritual, and Shame.

These are small things that can be put in effect, some allow for perks, others are just for show.

 

[Frarc]

I'm not sure if there is a need for a anti-virtue system.

I roleplay a "evil" character. But for her doing what she does she don't consider it evil or negative. She can still be Valorous in combat and can fight with Honor.She will Sacrifice her self for her master. With killing Humans she see that as bringing Justice, they are afterall responsible for killing her race.
However because she has no emotions, she will never shows compassion and because she very powerfull and see other races as lesser being she will not be Humble.

 

[AaronTheAssassin]

I was thinking more along the lines of the Karma scale

If your good, then your not evil, if your evil, then your not good.

You either have Honor or you have Shame. on the same note, you are either humble, or your proud.

I could be shamefully proud of myself. Im Sir Sissy, I run from bunnies but I was entitled to all the riches of my family!

 

[Xenobia]

I was thinking more along the lines of the Karma scale

If your good, then your not evil, if your evil, then your not good.

You either have Honor or you have Shame. on the same note, you are either humble, or your proud.

I could be shamefully proud of myself. Im Sir Sissy, I run from bunnies but I was entitled to all the riches of my family!

And THIS is where we need to see our fame/karma points! Sorry I had to add another plug for that one. I sneak em in when I can! hehe

 

[Maplestone]

The way I see it, it's not that people have negative standing in a virtue, they have negative standing in a culture.

Everyone has a virtue system of their own. Lord Blackthorn's chaos is not really opposed to the Britannian virtues, just a like askew to it. The gargoyle virtues are simply a completely different culture. Only the shadowlords are an embodiment of an antithesis - and I see them as the true masters of the dungeons, even now that their plans have been thwarted and their power once more diminished. I would keep some version of them in the game as the ultimate harrower-like end-boss of a system centered around collecting sigils and the bell/book/candle.