A Plea for Equipment Balance

[Deception]

"Stop making me wear woodland armor”

UO has always been a sandbox game. You can use limitless combinations of skills/stats/equipment to create whatever type of play style you like, and most often still be a viable character. But through the years, as more items have constantly been added to give more options, UO is beginning to trend away from its intended game style.

Deciding which armor to use in the early days of UO meant balancing protection vs speed. If you wanted to wear plate, you would pay for it in dex. However, there was no tougher character than one in full plate mail. Since the dex penalty of armor has been removed, now there is no reason (except the benefits of meddable armor) to go with anything less than the armor with the most protection.


Armor should now be looked at as two groups, med and non-med. There should not be an absolute best type for each group. Here is a list of non-med armor for easy comparison:

Armor Type.........Base Resists....Exceptional Bonus..Special Material Bonus...Total
Studded leather:........16....................20.......................12.....................48
Hide:........................15....................20.......................12....................47
Bone:.......................16....................20.......................12.....................48
Dragon scale:............15.....................20.......................7......................42
Metal:......................15.....................20......................13.....................48
Woodland:.................15....................20.......................18.....................53

From this chart is it obvious that there is a benefit to using woodland armor. You should note, however, that the extra resistance is not even the big seller to using woodland. Woodland can be given mods through enhancing that are not available on other armor types. If you first craft a piece, imbue all mods wanted, and then enhance with heartwood, another mod can be placed on the item. The mods available through this method are Luck 40, Durability 50%, Lower Requirements 20%, Damage Increase 10%, Lower Weight 50%, Hit Chance Increase 5%, Mage Armor.


I would like to see the choice of what to wear put back into the players hands. Any player today wishing to get the most out of his/her equipment only has 1 choice in which armor type to use.

I call for a change to material bonuses for each crafting skill. There should be a type of leather, dragon scale, and ingot that can provide 18 additional resistances to a piece of armor. There should also be a type of each that grants slightly fewer resistances, with the chance to also give an extra mod. I would suggest that the most balanced way is to give the exact mod list as woodland.

Example of new material bonuses:
Ingots...........................Resists.....................................Bonus
Golden......................3/2/1/2/2 (10).....................+40 luck, lower req 30%
Agapite.....................5/5/2/3/3 (18).................................none
Verite .......................5/2/2/5/2 (16)......Chance for same mod list as heartwood(HCI,etc)
Valorite.....................5/2/5/2/4 (18)...........................+50 durability

To account for med vs. non med armor, all meddable should have a base of 10 less resistances than non-med. The choice will be either have the ability to use med, or have more resistances. In imbuing intensity, 10 resistance is only 66 weight, while mage armor is 1.4. That shows that 10 resistances extra per piece, while a nice boost, will not cause a unfair advantage to non-med.

I do not want all armor of a group to be identical. Base resistances should still be dispersed differently (IE dragon scale armor should provide large fire resist, while metal provides physical). Also the top material bonus for woodland should not be the same distribution as the one for hide. I simply want to not be forced to wear woodland armor anymore to maintain my competitive edge in the game. Give me more options, and in doing so restore some of the game's original appeal.




Please leave your feedback, criticism, and/or support for this proposal.

 

[olduofan]

sounds like a good start

 

[lupushor]

As a fellow maniac armor-crafter, I have to agree with you, even though the new reforging makes more interesting properties available for all armor.
But as for the changing you present, I do not think it is that easy, just differentiate med / non-med through resist.
Change would also have to consider spell damage vs armor, melee damage vs armor, and both mage and dexxer playstyles, just so we won't fall in another unbalanced PvP issue.

tuff.


PS. Certainly, things were a lot simpler in the past. And more fun.

 

[Deception]

As a fellow maniac armor-crafter, I have to agree with you, even though the new reforging makes more interesting properties available for all armor.
But as for the changing you present, I do not think it is that easy, just differentiate med / non-med through resist.
Change would also have to consider spell damage vs armor, melee damage vs armor, and both mage and dexxer playstyles, just so we won't fall in another unbalanced PvP issue.

tuff.


PS. Certainly, things were a lot simpler in the past. And more fun.

Sure, a complete system overhaul would be nice. But I present these changes because they would not change the game as a whole. They would simply balance the current armors that the game presents. We could actually see paladins wearing plate, samurai wearing samurai armor, necro warriors in bone..... Could reinstitute some really nice flavor to the game.

 

[popps]

Please leave your feedback, criticism, and/or support for this proposal.

I agree that the game, especially for PvP, needs a lot of work on balance.

Personally, though, I do not think it as possible to be achieved working on items.

There are way too many different items with different characteristics and modifiers.
Too many different CAPs to take into account, too many different downtimes, too many variables to fine tune one with another in order to get the game more balanced out when it comes to fighting.

Perhaps it could be done, still, but with the enormous number of variables into play I fear it would just require way too much work and time that Ultima Online can at the moment afford with the resources it has.

I would instead shift the focus away from items/modifiers and bring it back onto skills, real skills, mind you, not through items.....

How ?

Introducing new special moves which really make a difference in a fight and which can only be used when having real skill points, preferably even from a combination of skills.

Like for example, a Mage special spell would require 120 in Magery, Evaluate Intelligence, Magic Resistance, Meditation. I know, that 480 real skill points to be able to cast a special spell but it would be a spell that can really make a difference in combat.......

Of course, a dexer would also have a special move if sporting the right combination of real skills.....

I think this way it would be easier to work out some way of balance in between the various different skills. Much easier that trying to achieve it through taming the plethora of items and modifiers currently existing in the game and which has worsened after the new Shame loot........

 

[Sevin0oo0]

Introducing new special moves which really make a difference in a fight and which can only be used when having real skill points, preferably even from a combination of skills.

New specials could be added in that GM to 120 slot, where it Should mean something special, instead of 120= 'the new gm'

 

[Deception]

I agree that the game, especially for PvP, needs a lot of work on balance.

Personally, though, I do not think it as possible to be achieved working on items.

There are way too many different items with different characteristics and modifiers.
Too many different CAPs to take into account, too many different downtimes, too many variables to fine tune one with another in order to get the game more balanced out when it comes to fighting.

Hi popps. Thanks for your contribution. I have read and enjoyed many of your posts through the years.

I agree with you that many large scale issues in the game do need to be addressed. However, for this thread all I am only proposing two changes: special material bonus restructure, and lowering of base resistances on meddable armor.

These two changes would allow for more diversity in armor choice, as well as work to balance med vs. non-med armor. I want to see more variety in UO, and feel this would be a good start. No longer would every warrior have to wear woodland armor.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

Sure, a complete system overhaul would be nice. But I present these changes because they would not change the game as a whole. They would simply balance the current armors that the game presents. We could actually see paladins wearing plate, samurai wearing samurai armor, necro warriors in bone..... Could reinstitute some really nice flavor to the game.

My Warriors already wear imbued armor that fits their template. My Macer/Paladin wears a full suit of Platemail, my Samurai/Swordsman wears a full suit of Samurai Platemail, my Necro/Swordsman wears a full suit of Bone Armor, my GM LJ Swordsman wears a full suit of White Dragon Armor, my Thrower wears a full suit of Gargoyle Platemail, my Archer wears a full suit of Woodland Armor, and my Pally/Swordswoman wears a full suit of Woodland Armor. Each one has 40% LMC, all 70's Resist, MR 1-2 on each piece, and even +Mana, Stamina or Health on the pieces. My Thrower's suit, just from the imbued Gargoyle Platemail, not including jewelry or misc wearables, has all 70's Resists (Corpse Proof), 40% LMC, 8 MR, +48 Mana, +40 Stamina, +15 Health. So Woodland Armor is not *Required* for Warriors.
The extra resists given by Type doesn't matter that much, since there's caps and imbuing makes making an all 70's suit easy.

 

[Deception]

My Warriors already wear imbued armor that fits their template. My Macer/Paladin wears a full suit of Platemail, my Samurai/Swordsman wears a full suit of Samurai Platemail, my Necro/Swordsman wears a full suit of Bone Armor, my GM LJ Swordsman wears a full suit of White Dragon Armor, my Thrower wears a full suit of Gargoyle Platemail, my Archer wears a full suit of Woodland Armor, and my Pally/Swordswoman wears a full suit of Woodland Armor. Each one has 40% LMC, all 70's Resist, MR 1-2 on each piece, and even +Mana, Stamina or Health on the pieces. My Thrower's suit, just from the imbued Gargoyle Platemail, not including jewelry or misc wearables, has all 70's Resists (Corpse Proof), 40% LMC, 8 MR, +48 Mana, +40 Stamina, +15 Health. So Woodland Armor is not *Required* for Warriors.
The extra resists given by Type doesn't matter that much, since there's caps and imbuing makes making an all 70's suit easy.

Well I wish I could have the same mindset as you Player. However, I demand the best possible gear for my character. And the fact stands that you can achieve more through using heartwood woodland armor. For a 6 piece armor set, it provides a base of 30 extra resists, and for my character, either 30 HCI or 60 DI. Therefore if I want the most I can get out of a suit, I am trapped using woodland.

 

[Lynk]

I'd like to disagree with your whiney post, and pre-emptively disagree with everything you plan on posting in the future.

 

[Deception]

I'd like to disagree with your whiney post, and pre-emptively disagree with everything you plan on posting in the future.

Strange that the opponent to my proposal is also the starter of the longsword and shield toting sampire. My agenda is for the betterment of the game, while you post only in the fear of personal loss. Save everyone the hassle of deciphering through your nonsense: stick to posting where your words are welcome.

 

[Lynk]

Strange that the opponent to my proposal is also the starter of the longsword and shield toting sampire. My agenda is for the betterment of the game, while you post only in the fear of personal loss. Save everyone the hassle of deciphering through your nonsense: stick to posting where your words are welcome.

How can I have fear of personal loss, when according to the terms of service we don't own anything in game, EA/Mythic does.

Pretty sure my words are welcome here since this is a public forum.

I honestly don't care what changes they make to the game. I'm better than you, and I'll adapt.

 

[NuSair]

I'll respond in greater length later, but I wanted to touch on this part while I had it in mind.

Woodland SHOULD be better than the other types. Why?

Simply put, it requires the use of resources that you cannot get back. When you make something of leather or metal, you can bust it up to get back at least some of the material you put into it.

With wood, not only do lose wood because it cannot be reclaimed, but you also lose the bark fragments that are required in it's production.

If it was to be allowed that leather and metal meet woodlands effectiveness, then it should also meet the cost.

Please note- this comes from the guy who makes Sampire armor out of PLATE.

 

[Deception]

Strange that the opponent to my proposal is also the starter of the longsword and shield toting sampire. My agenda is for the betterment of the game, while you post only in the fear of personal loss. Save everyone the hassle of deciphering through your nonsense: stick to posting where your words are welcome.

This probably doesn't make sense to most readers here, but Lynk made an attack on me based on not only this thread, but one I started for the balance of two handed weapons vs one handed and shield.

How can I have fear of personal loss, when according to the terms of service we don't own anything in game, EA/Mythic does.

Pretty sure my words are welcome here since this is a public forum.

I honestly don't care what changes they make to the game. I'm better than you, and I'll adapt.

I am done with this little squabble

I'll respond in greater length later, but I wanted to touch on this part while I had it in mind.

Woodland SHOULD be better than the other types. Why?

Simply put, it requires the use of resources that you cannot get back. When you make something of leather or metal, you can bust it up to get back at least some of the material you put into it.

With wood, not only do lose wood because it cannot be reclaimed, but you also lose the bark fragments that are required in it's production.

If it was to be allowed that leather and metal meet woodlands effectiveness, then it should also meet the cost.

Please note- this comes from the guy who makes Sampire armor out of PLATE.

A valid argument NuSair. However, is the gain of a few ingots or few strips of leather really enough to support this? If you were also getting back expensive imbuing ingredients and such, then I would agree. With the ingot and leather supply being as large as it is, I really do not see this as enough to warrant the lost mods of metal or leather armor.

 

[Lynk]

Whoa, calm down bro.

Not attacking you personally, just your stupid arguments.

 

[Thunderz]

This probably doesn't make sense to most readers here, but Lynk made an attack on me based on not only this thread, but one I started for the balance of two handed weapons vs one handed and shield.



I am done with this little squabble



A valid argument NuSair. However, is the gain of a few ingots or few strips of leather really enough to support this? If you were also getting back expensive imbuing ingredients and such, then I would agree. With the ingot and leather supply being as large as it is, I really do not see this as enough to warrant the lost mods of metal or leather armor.

From reading the thread you actually insulted him first, he just responded to defend himself ROFL

And NuSair is absolutly correct..
Thunderz

 

[NuSair]

A valid argument NuSair. However, is the gain of a few ingots or few strips of leather really enough to support this? If you were also getting back expensive imbuing ingredients and such, then I would agree. With the ingot and leather supply being as large as it is, I really do not see this as enough to warrant the lost mods of metal or leather armor.

It's not so much about the gaining of ingots and leather. As you say (and which really supports what I am saying) there is a LARGE supply of ingots and leather- there isn't nearly as much wood (specifically heartwood) and in addition to that, bark fragments.

Right now, one of the limiting factors on the extreme woodland armor that you are talking about is the lack of availability of heartwood plus bark fragments.

The fact you can't recycle it is HUGE. Maybe you haven't crafted a suit, if so, let me tell you, you have to craft hundreds if not thousands of pieces for 1 suit. With leather and metal it's a matter of attrition, you lose a little bit each time- recycle the ones that don't meet what you are looking for and try again.

With Wood armor, if the piece you make doesn't meet what you need- then that's it- you throw it away.

Example- and this is by no means exact. Let's say the smelting return is 80%. You take 1000 ingots and make something that cost 20 ingots. So, you make 50. Say none of them are right, you smelt them, get back 800 ingots and proceed to make 40 more. and so on... so, you could make 100 + 80 + 64 + 51 + 40 + 32 + 26 + 20... that right there is ~413 craftings. To make the same out of wood, you would need 8260 boards plus 826 bark fragments. So...

1000 ingots.... 8260 boards and 826 bark fragments.

While I appreciate your view point and understand where it's coming from, unless they add in something where you craft plate/leather with an additional material (pick a resource- like Dragons' Blood) that makes it so you cannot recycle the metal/leather, then Woodland armor should be significantly better than either (which it's not that much better than leather, since you cannot meditate in it- honestly, thinking about it now- this is how plate armor should have always been, significantly better than leather w/o meditation).

 

[Theo_GL]

Agreed.

Every dexer in the game is essentially an elf in woodland armor. No real penalty for being an elf and you can wear everything (Elf, Human, Woodland) except for garg armor. You get 20 mana and free nightsight.

Of course, these changes would make too much sense.

Tomorrow they will introduce super imbuing where you can imbue 300% intensity or something.

Its just a crazy arms race since the shame loot changes and even more complex/challenging to put together armor.

Honestly too much of this game is about crafting, recrafting, calculating armor stuff. It doesn't need to be this challenging.

 

[Deception]

It's not so much about the gaining of ingots and leather. As you say (and which really supports what I am saying) there is a LARGE supply of ingots and leather- there isn't nearly as much wood (specifically heartwood) and in addition to that, bark fragments.

Right now, one of the limiting factors on the extreme woodland armor that you are talking about is the lack of availability of heartwood plus bark fragments.

The fact you can't recycle it is HUGE. Maybe you haven't crafted a suit, if so, let me tell you, you have to craft hundreds if not thousands of pieces for 1 suit. With leather and metal it's a matter of attrition, you lose a little bit each time- recycle the ones that don't meet what you are looking for and try again.

With Wood armor, if the piece you make doesn't meet what you need- then that's it- you throw it away.

Example- and this is by no means exact. Let's say the smelting return is 80%. You take 1000 ingots and make something that cost 20 ingots. So, you make 50. Say none of them are right, you smelt them, get back 800 ingots and proceed to make 40 more. and so on... so, you could make 100 + 80 + 64 + 51 + 40 + 32 + 26 + 20... that right there is ~413 craftings. To make the same out of wood, you would need 8260 boards plus 826 bark fragments. So...

1000 ingots.... 8260 boards and 826 bark fragments.

While I appreciate your view point and understand where it's coming from, unless they add in something where you craft plate/leather with an additional material (pick a resource- like Dragons' Blood) that makes it so you cannot recycle the metal/leather, then Woodland armor should be significantly better than either (which it's not that much better than leather, since you cannot meditate in it- honestly, thinking about it now- this is how plate armor should have always been, significantly better than leather w/o meditation).

Hey again NuSair. Yeah, I made myself a suit. And unfortunately for me, I completed 4 of the 5 pieces during the two weeks prior to them releasing the forged artifacts tool. AND I made them with MR, so went through over 1000 seeds of renewal. Needless to say, I spent over 500m and many hours to craft it all.

You are completely right in the fact that it is much harder to craft the woodland suit than it is other. As the system is now, that does balance it a bit. What I would like to see though is the ability to craft suits of other materials that have equal benefits, but are also equally difficult(and expensive) to create.

So yes, my proposal is lacking. The ingredients required to craft other types of armor to be equally as powerful as heartwood enhanced woodland armor should require another special ingredient.

 

[olduofan]

why dont humans get like 10 extra strength if elfs get 20 mana ? the jack of all trades is lame and then they made it so you have to add night site to armor and that takes up imbuing weight seems like by now they would adjust humans so they are at least as good as elfs, hell now its all gargs...

 

[NuSair]

So yes, my proposal is lacking. The ingredients required to craft other types of armor to be equally as powerful as heartwood enhanced woodland armor should require another special ingredient.

When the new producer mentioned making plate viable again (which- I think I proved that it is good in my Sampire in plate threads) I started writing up a spec sheet on what I think plate armor needed, materials, processes, ect. And was going to send it to him.

Who knows, maybe I'll get a job out of it. lol

 

[NuSair]

why dont humans get like 10 extra strength if elfs get 20 mana ? the jack of all trades is lame and then they made it so you have to add night site to armor and that takes up imbuing weight seems like by now they would adjust humans so they are at least as good as elfs, hell now its all gargs...

You can get the night sight earrings.

Also, JOAT is pretty damn good, but you just have to put a little effort into it. There are a number of useful spells you can cast with JOAT.