A New Mapping Application

[Vyal]

I'm sorry you made that?
You took the time to label all the maps and even add in an about form ?

hmmmmm

 

[Kiminality]

I'm sorry you made that?
You took the time to label all the maps and even add in an about form ?

hmmmmm

A tad self-important today, aren't we...

 

[Kiwillian]

I'm sorry you made that?
You took the time to label all the maps and even add in an about form ?

hmmmmm

It's called "not doing a half assed job"

 

[Vyal]

*sighs*

I can't wait to see it in action

Well it looks as if you either had source code handed to you or decompiled UOAM.
OR
It's just a total fake.
Same color text as UOAM, Same Size, Same Font? cmon now...
I had plenty of code ripped myself stuff I could have made money from so I hope ya didn't do what I think ya did.

How did you convert tile coordinates to latitude and longitude ?

 

[Kiwillian]

Can't wait to see yours too.

Until Mythic pull finger and let us know if they are legal we are a bit stuck...

 

[Kat]

Just so everyone knows that we have NOT approved any new map programs. We closed the application process for 3rd party programs years ago.

Should we take that to mean that you cannot and will not approve any 3rd party programs? Speciffically, the one Kiwillian is working on and is very much needed?


Kiwillian - That looks fabulous! Great job! I am lost without UOAM and am hoping beyond hope that it gets approved.

 

[Kiwillian]

I doubt it will be "Approved", I'm just hoping it's "Allowed"

 

[Kiwillian]

*sighs*

I can't wait to see it in action

Well it looks as if you either had source code handed to you or decompiled UOAM.
OR
It's just a total fake.
Same color text as UOAM, Same Size, Same Font? cmon now...
I had plenty of code ripped myself stuff I could have made money from so I hope ya didn't do what I think ya did.

How did you convert tile coordinates to latitude and longitude ?

Um, I copied the look and feel of UOAM. The font is Comic Sans MS, if you want to know. It's not very hard to figure out.

Jeez...

edit: Tile coors - there is code in the default skin that I followed. (in the new client). It's not hard either.

 

[Vyal]

So this won't work with 2d?

 

[Kiwillian]

It works with both clients.

 

[Kiminality]

So this won't work with 2d?

...
Seriously?

You asked how he converted from Coordinates to Lat/Long.
The answer: The code (read: formula for calculating) is in the Enhanced Client default skin.

 

[Vyal]

latStr..L"'"..latDir..L" "..longStr..L"'"..longDir

how do you get this to work in 2d client?
This still isn't giving you tile cords only long and lat so I have no idea how you are doing what you are doing.

 

[Kiwillian]

I'm not even sure what you are asking anymore.

Take X,Y - convert to Lat, Long. That's it. What you posted is the display part.

Look in MapCommon.lua

 

[Vyal]

You understand that doesn't tell you anything at all? It's just a script to tell the client where to put specific text? and there is no actual hard coding there to give you the information you say it gives you?

Not only that but you still havn't told me how your turning long and lat in tile cords in your lil map program you whipped up in a few hours and didn't steal any code at all

You didn't use any math at all here?

 

[Kiwillian]

You understand that doesn't tell you anything at all? It's just a script to tell the client where to put specific text? and there is no actual hard coding there to give you the information you say it gives you?

Not only that but you still havn't told me how your turning long and lat in tile cords in your lil map program you whipped up in a few hours and didn't steal any code at all

Ok, I'm tired of this.

I've been working on this for a few weeks now. If you are too stupid to look into the lua files to find the XY to LatLong function, then that is your fault, not mine.

Here's a clue:

function MapCommon.ConvertToMinutesXY(x,y,facet)

follow that.

 

[Vyal]

function MapCommon.ConvertToXYMinutes(latVal, longVal, latDir, longDir, facet, area)

That is a function aight,
so you would call it from someplace how are you getting the lat and long?

Not to mention how are you calling this function from another program what your saying isn't making sense.

Like what your telling me is your using apples to make oranges it doesn't make any sense at all.

I'm done best wishs if i'm wrong and you arn't stealing code and you are somehow making a program in some vs language that is using outside functions in a script language to work for you and somehow give your map program the to show the players correct location IN YOUR map program and not the in game ui then i'm sorry.

 

[Kiwillian]

function MapCommon.ConvertToXYMinutes(latVal, longVal, latDir, longDir, facet, area)

That is a function aight,
so you would call it from someplace how are you getting the lat and long?

Not to mention how are you calling this function from another program what your saying isn't making sense.

Like what your telling me is your using apples to make oranges it doesn't make any sense at all.

Dude, seriously, what is your problem? Take the math from those functions, then write your own. Jeez.

Also, the function you posted goes the other way - from lat/long to X,Y.

 

[Kat]

Vyal - This nonsense isn't necessary. If you feel you can make a better program, then by all means, do so. Attempting to trash, badmouth or discredit the efforts of others will only make you look petty and foolish.

 

[Old Man of UO]

... The whole point of this thread now is to determine what is legal and what isn't. That way people like us who write a new app can safely release it without people risking the ban-hammer.
...

AWESOME... that was the whole point of my comments, to get this discussion started. You cannot just assume anything you create is legal, without EA/Mythic approval, or least acknowledgment that what you are creating does not violate the UO TOS and ROC.

Awesome work guys... I think this is getting their attention.

 

[Vyal]

Like I said i'm done I hope he releases it and if he ripped someones code then so be it.

 

[Kat]

Like I said i'm done I hope he releases it and if he ripped someones code then so be it.

Read my last post before you continue down this path.

 

[Kiwillian]

Like I said i'm done I hope he releases it and if he ripped someones code then so be it.

Thanks!

I do hope to release it. I did not steal any code though. So stop projecting your inadequacies on me.

 

[Vyal]

Sir I have done everything you did but I don't have a exact copy of another program I also am not claiming that I was able to pull 2d client cords from another clients gui scripts.

 

[kokopelli]

I doubt it will be "Approved", I'm just hoping it's "Allowed"

Neither will happen.
They just cant. If they do, everyone and his mom will start asking for approval of tool X, too.

Best you can hope for is that they fall back to their usual behavior pattern like they have done with so many tools before: threaten and try to scare ppl that are using it a little at first, then finally realize they hardly can do anything about it anyway and ignore it...

Only thing that might happen is that they order stratics to prevent any discussion about or even mentioning the tools name anywhere on this site and our beloved EA/Mythic lap dog will obey and nuke any references to your tool from here...

 

[Anakena]

It's been closed for 7 or 8 years now. At one time is was kinda encouraged, but too many "exploiting" applications appeared, so the program was closed.

I think it wasn't the reason. The problem was that it was involving too much manpower from their point of view.

 

[yorky]

From some of the OSI/EA rules on something like this I feel like we are back in the stone age, UO isnt a top secret weapon of mass destruction that requires round the clock guards and a 'self destruct' button incase it somehow gets infiltrated, its a bloody computer game.

If they were to deem this 'replacement of an approved app that no longer works' as ban able then I cant see much encouragement to continue playing, eventually these pro apps will fall to the sands of time because OSI/EA closed the program. Even UOAssist will one day stop getting updated, what they gonna do then?

I hope you at least have this classed as 'a non ban able app' Kiwillian and wish you every success with it, I for one will use it so long as it doesn't put my account at risk.

 

[IanJames]

*ditto*

 

[Old Man of UO]

... I hope you at least have this classed as 'a non ban able app' Kiwillian and wish you every success with it, I for one will use it so long as it doesn't put my account at risk.

I won't use it unless it gets a *nod* from the Developers. Anyone who does should get banned. That's the only way to level the playing field.

All that said, if it is this easy for you guys to come up with a workable solution, including one that does not depend on UOAM, then why don't we have one already as part of the default client?

 

[bikrdotnet]

Interesting developments.. I have managed to find mem addresses in apps so that could be used for coords etc and sure thats' how you are doing it , but how in the world do you guys have these quality maps?? Are they in the program dir already? can they be pulled out? and how did you setup the grid on them if they are just static images.. Hmm.. Intriuged.. Anyone want to PM me?

 

[bikrdotnet]

From the Knowledge Base:
This is the part that people were trying to work around in creating a new map program:

Programs such as ICQ, AIM, UO Trace, or any other program that runs independently of UO, and has no effect on the UO data stream or software are generally ok to use.

The map programs do not run independently of UO (that is, they need the client to collect the information), and therefore would need approval. I'm sure many will disagree, but take that argument up with EA/Mythic.

How could anyone disagree? The verbage is "that runs independently" and the map apps need to read the coords directly from allocated memory for client.exe.. Pretty clear to me..

Even if I think it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. There's no reason that any 3rd party app should be legal so long as it is only reading from memory, and not writing to it, or inserting / modifying packets in the stream..

 

[Mijac_Chmon]

Like I said i'm done I hope he releases it and if he ripped someones code then so be it.

Don't get too cut that he's eliminating your money making scheme, pet(ulant).

Go Kiwi!

 

[Kiwillian]

Interesting developments.. I have managed to find the mem addresses for coords etc, but how in the world do you guys have these quality maps?? Are they in the program dir already? can they be pulled out? and how did you setup the grid on them if they are just static images.. Hmm.. Intriuged.. Anyone want to PM me?

If you are pulling things from the clients memory or data stream - brace yourself, coz you're gonna get banned.

Also, you have 3 posts in 4 years? Get out.

 

[bikrdotnet]

Yah.. Just because I know how to read memory from a process, doesn't mean I'm doing it.. LoL.. And I'm not interested in developing this, I'd rather just use someone elses. I'm just curious in the process of how it's being done.. I'm a professional student haha!

Also yah.. 3 posts in 4 years.. Sader still is that I've been playing for 10 years.. I don't know why I never really got into stratics.. *shrugs*

Maybe I will now..

 

[Kiwillian]

Go back to your freeshard forums or whatever. K thx.

 

[bikrdotnet]

Also, you have 3 posts in 4 years? Get out.

Just noticed the end of that quote.. LoL.. Not very welcoming..

 

[Arcus]

Sir I have done everything you did but I don't have a exact copy of another program I also am not claiming that I was able to pull 2d client cords from another clients gui scripts.

Oh..my..god. If you have been a programmer for ANY length of time you would have used other peoples code at *some* point. Reference code , libs , someones function for data type conversion. Seriously..

Its called not reinventing the wheel.

Who cares, e-peens are abundant in this thread.

Call it a race and let the best program win.

Wanna talk Mac vs. PC next?

 

[bikrdotnet]

Go back to your freeshard forums or whatever. K thx.

Srsly?? WTF in my post warranted such hostility? I don't play on any freeshards, been paying OSI / EA / Mythic, yes paying , not just playing for 3 accounts for 10 years, 8 years and 6 years respectively.

So... Just because I haven't posted regularly on here, means I'm not welcome by default? I'm contributing to an existing conversation..

 

[Vyal]

I want to know how Kiwi is doing it also without a hex editor I honestly don't think he is from what he told he's using some gui functions from the new sa client so it wouldn't work in 2d if it even worked at all so I want to know how he's doing it or is it all just bs.

I think he's just trying to get me to give up how I did it.
Mine is pretty accurate ide say within 20 tiles atm. That is without reading client memory btw.

Wanna talk Mac vs. PC next?

Did you really go there?

 

[Arcus]

I want to know how Kiwi is doing it also without a hex editor I honestly don't think he is from what he told he's using some gui functions from the new sa client so it wouldn't work in 2d if it even worked at all so I want to know how he's doing it or is it all just bs.

I think he's just trying to get me to give up how I did it.
Mine is pretty accurate ide say within 20 tiles atm. That is without reading client memory btw.



Did you really go there?

Sure. Im a computer geek. I don't care what kinda. Its all good.

 

[bikrdotnet]

I want to know how Kiwi is doing it also without a hex editor I honestly don't think he is from what he told he's using some gui functions from the new sa client so it wouldn't work in 2d if it even worked at all so I want to know how he's doing it or is it all just bs.

I think he's just trying to get me to give up how I did it.
Mine is pretty accurate ide say within 20 tiles atm. That is without reading client memory btw.

Vyal, that sounds like magic.. So.. w/o using the UOAssist api , and without reading memory.. I'm going to have to think about that for a bit.. You have to get the data from somewhere..

Quesiton, does your version require that you have a map open in the client?? Only way I can think of would be to take a picture of the landscape (or the built in map) and bitmap it to compare to the full map to find the spot. That's how you'd be accurate within 20 tiles because the overhead map is about 20x20 isnt' it? That's just a far guess.. Maybe I'll get lucky..

 

[Vyal]

yes it doesn't work without the map open.
It could be done another way i'm sure but I wanted to make sure I wasn't scanning the client memory it was something I tossed together with some old code I had for a dif program in about twenty min spent all night tweaking it up working on zoom, labels, server lines, that type of thing.

I would really like to figure out a way to get the exact cords without looking into the memory but I havn't figured it out yet. But if Belxan did it I don't see why I can't figure it out.

 

[bikrdotnet]

yes it doesn't work without the map open.
It could be done another way i'm sure but I wanted to make sure I wasn't scanning the client memory it was something I tossed together with some old code I had for a dif program in about twenty min spent all night tweaking it up working on zoom, labels, server lines, that type of thing.

I would really like to figure out a way to get the exact cords without looking into the memory but I havn't figured it out yet. But if Belxan did it I don't see why I can't figure it out.

Damn... That was a lucky stab in the dark.. The key was the 20 tiles..

Belxan is either A. Lying, or B. Lying. He has to be pulling the co'ords from memory or from Assist's api.. OoOOO.. Hmm.. Just had an great idea.. I'll PM you see what you think.. If you want to take the idea public it's your decision..

 

[Old Man of UO]

Oh..my..god. If you have been a programmer for ANY length of time you would have used other peoples code at *some* point. Reference code , libs , someones function for data type conversion. Seriously..

Its called not reinventing the wheel.

Who cares, e-peens are abundant in this thread.
...

Ever hear of Copy Right laws? UOAM has Copy Rights.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Two questions for JC, Kiwillian and Vyal concerning each implementation of the map apps:

1) Is it possible, as it is now or through modifications, to track another player without his/her knowledge? <=== this worries me the most

2) Can these apps that you are working on be detected by the Client?

 

[bikrdotnet]

Two questions for JC, Kiwillian and Vyal concerning each implementation of the map apps:

1) Is it possible, as it is now or through modifications, to track another player without his/her knowledge? <=== this worries me the most

2) Can these apps that you are working on be detected by the Client?

I can answer based on my own info..

1. No.. most of the time this requires you turning on a tracking flag and setting permissions to who can track you.. This also requires a server that you setup yourself (in the case of UOAm it was anyway) That way not even the developers can track you.

2. I can say for fact that they can not be detected as it stands now.. Even the ones that read the memory wouldn't be able to.. But in the case of Vyal, he's not touching the client at all, just reading colors on the screen..

 

[JC the Builder]

I would really like to figure out a way to get the exact cords without looking into the memory but I havn't figured it out yet. But if Belxan did it I don't see why I can't figure it out.

I think you are mistaken about UOAM. The reason UOAM needed UOPro status was that it did read client memory for the coordinates. This was used in the auto-calibration feature, which has long since broken because UOAM is not updated anymore.

UOAM only works still due to it also using the UOAssist API to grab the coordinates. This is why you have to run UOAssist now for UOAM to work.

 

[altarego]

If there's a question of legality, I don't understand why y'all don't just swallow a bit of pride and send your implementations directly to Mythic and have them review it so they can incorporate your ideas directly into the client at some point in the future?

 

[UOKaiser]

I won't use it unless it gets a *nod* from the Developers. Anyone who does should get banned. That's the only way to level the playing field.

All that said, if it is this easy for you guys to come up with a workable solution, including one that does not depend on UOAM, then why don't we have one already as part of the default client?

I wouldn't worry to much if it doesn't manipulate packets or replace something they get revenue from it's good to go. Still I understand your waiting. The one that uses the LUA thats already approved because EA made that client with that abilitie thats why all the custom KR mods were around.
The VB one if you like you can wait on it.
Anyway I can answer that last question. For them to make that it requires money,time,testing and everyone agreeing. When a independent person does it then it requires only Time he/she has plenty of if they play UO and thats it.
Well thats my belief

 

[UOKaiser]

If you are pulling things from the clients memory or data stream - brace yourself, coz you're gonna get banned.

Also, you have 3 posts in 4 years? Get out.

Both of you don't fight. Contribute thats all. Do ya want me to compete with both of you on this heh. Anyway I believe it's the manipulation of the data stream and sent back to the uo servers thats unauthorized. Simply reading it well it's your memory plenty of things do that.

 

[UOKaiser]

I want to know how Kiwi is doing it also without a hex editor I honestly don't think he is from what he told he's using some gui functions from the new sa client so it wouldn't work in 2d if it even worked at all so I want to know how he's doing it or is it all just bs.

I think he's just trying to get me to give up how I did it.
Mine is pretty accurate ide say within 20 tiles atm. That is without reading client memory btw.



Did you really go there?

You too. No need to fight. I know computer programers who do it for a living pop there brain cells at 30. Relax it's all good