+60 Tailoring Thimble

[Connor_Graham]

After a couple of days of unsuccessful enhancement attempts while trying to create an imbued luck suit, I've determined that the enhancement chances of tailoring really bite.

Why doesn't tailoring have something along the lines of a +60 ASH for use in enhancing? Tailoring seems to have the worst chance of success out of all of the crafting skills. Why is that? Even with a gargoyle with 120 Tailoring and a 25/29 talisman (yes, I know it's not supposed to work with enhancing but I'll give anything a try to get it to work) the failure rate is unacceptably high.

This needs a change. Even the miniscule garg racial bonus doesn't seem to help.

 

[Fink]

I like it.

Devs: make it sew.

 

[Green Mouser]

Enhancing is the only challenging aspect left in imbuing. IMO lets leave it......

 

[Connor_Graham]

Enhancing is the only challenging aspect left in imbuing. IMO lets leave it......

There's nothing challenging about watching millions get flushed down the toilet as piece after piece breaks. That's not challenge, that's frustration.

 

[MalagAste]

I'm in agreement.... I'd love a tailoring thimble.... or how about tailors needle..... Heck I'm even for tailors glasses of +60, +30 and +10 like the hammers... you have mining gloves of +5 and smithing hammers....

Tailors need love.

Not that I think my smithing hammer works that well... even at 180 smithing enhancing still stinks.

 

[DevilsOwn]

*grumbles*

lose track of big things, like tables and armoires and pet dragons..... now you expect me to be able to find a little thimble?!!

nice idea, tho

 

[LordDextonious]

Ahh yes, I know it all too well... after using over 200 powder of fort, I said screw it, and didnt powder the last 2 pieces. Would've been cheaper to make more than one of the item.

 

[Shelleybean]

I like the idea. Until something like this happens, I refuse to enhance any more leather armor. It will break so why bother with it?

 

[ZippyTwitch]

I get a little over 50% successful when enhancing on my 120 tailor. So the failures are not that bad. I mean really what do you try to enhance besides looted armor?

 

[Lythos-]

I am in total agreement with something to boost the chance. I have broken at least 50mil worth of armor pieces and that's just from the cost of buying ingreds not retail price.


I think i have a better idea that will be more fun, for me at least and would boost the enhancing bonus on every crafting skill.

Instead of the thimble lets make something say craftable, a 1 use item which gives X amount of enhancing bonus for X about of time. Have different bonus levels which would require different ingredients or more of them the higher the bonus.

(Example only: item one is a 10% enhancing bonus for 5min cheapest to make, item two is 15% bonus for 10min and item three which would give the best chance at 20% bonus for 15min) This could be used for smith, tailor, bowcraft and carpentry.

This could require cooking or alchemy and find an even further use for these skills and take special ingredients.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I get a little over 50% successful when enhancing on my 120 tailor.

I don't believe this for one minute. From a lot of experience, I know this to be very far from the truth.

 

[Shelleybean]

I get a little over 50% successful when enhancing on my 120 tailor. So the failures are not that bad. I mean really what do you try to enhance besides looted armor?

Some of us are trying to enhance imbued armor. For example, imbue 100 luck then enhance with spined for 140 luck. This gets very costly when you consider the special materials plus powder of fortification.

 

[Smokin]

Id say make it an apron or sash.

 

[Stupid Miner]

Hm... smithing hammers are harder to get than tailoring kits.
Leather has automatic mage armor.
Leather is generally cheaper and easier to get.

I don't think it's necessary.
I'd rather get runic tinker tools, or some slight bonus to wooden craftables.

 

[Allicio]

I agree tailors need something of this sort but unfortunately all that has been suggested has ruled out the gargoyle crafters. I think personally it should be a spinning whell or such that works the same was as the herb basket does for cooking that way any char type can use it.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Oh jeez.

Connor: "More items that everyone needs that we rich can hoard, please."

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Tailors have been asking for this for many years. We can only hope. For the naysayers and uninformed, when enhancing imbued items that are at max intensities, you are at the highest chance to fail and break. You will catastrophically fail 67% of the time. That's two times more chance to destroy the piece than succeed. The blacksmithy ASH hammers drop that failure rate down into the 40% range.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Tailors have been asking for his for many years. We can only hope. For the naysayers and uninformed, when enhancing imbued items that are at max intensities, you are at the highest chance to fail and break. You will catastrophically fail 67% of the time. That's two times more chance to destroy the piece than succeed. The blacksmithy ASH hammers drop that failure rate down into the 40% range.

Simple answer that doesn't make such items required, yet gives them some purpose....
Increase that chance to make the items a little, and decrease the benefit of such bonus items.
So your fail rate could be 50-55%, and the ASH hammers as well as a new "thimble" or whatever could decrease that fail rate to 40-45%.
A 10% bonus in crafting the items is plenty.

 

[Stupid Miner]

Tailors have been asking for his for many years. We can only hope. For the naysayers and uninformed, when enhancing imbued items that are at max intensities, you are at the highest chance to fail and break. You will catastrophically fail 67% of the time. That's two times more chance to destroy the piece than succeed. The blacksmithy ASH hammers drop that failure rate down into the 40% range.

So? enhancing after imbuing is *really* not necessary. On the contrary, it's quite a luxury.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

So? enhancing after imbuing is *really* not necessary. On the contrary, it's quite a luxury.

Um, that's not what I said at all.

 

[panoramix2009]

i see if no put pof on piece armor no broken when u enhance it if u add pof on piece alot broke when enhance it

 

[Lord Frodo]

After a couple of days of unsuccessful enhancement attempts while trying to create an imbued luck suit, I've determined that the enhancement chances of tailoring really bite.

Why doesn't tailoring have something along the lines of a +60 ASH for use in enhancing? Tailoring seems to have the worst chance of success out of all of the crafting skills. Why is that? Even with a gargoyle with 120 Tailoring and a 25/29 talisman (yes, I know it's not supposed to work with enhancing but I'll give anything a try to get it to work) the failure rate is unacceptably high.

This needs a change. Even the miniscule garg racial bonus doesn't seem to help.

 

[Shelleybean]

Simple answer that doesn't make such items required, yet gives them some purpose....
Increase that chance to make the items a little, and decrease the benefit of such bonus items.
So your fail rate could be 50-55%, and the ASH hammers as well as a new "thimble" or whatever could decrease that fail rate to 40-45%.
A 10% bonus in crafting the items is plenty.

I don't really understand this comment. The +60 thimble would be like the equivalent of the +60 ancient smithy hammer. This could be something acquired through the bod system. Just like the smithy hammer, it would not be a requirement but could be useful during enhancing and or crafting. I think it should also be available as +10, +15 and +30 just like the ASHs.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Simple answer that doesn't make such items required, yet gives them some purpose....
Increase that chance to make the items a little, and decrease the benefit of such bonus items.
So your fail rate could be 50-55%, and the ASH hammers as well as a new "thimble" or whatever could decrease that fail rate to 40-45%.
A 10% bonus in crafting the items is plenty.

I don't really understand this comment. The +60 thimble would be like the equivalent of the +60 ancient smithy hammer. This could be something acquired through the bod system. Just like the smithy hammer, it would not be a requirement but could be useful during enhancing and or crafting. I think it should also be available as +10, +15 and +30 just like the ASHs.

I'm saying that the ASH's, and a new item of the same kind for tailoring, is overdone and too important, yet requires loads of time that powergamers have but others don't.

I'm not saying they should be easier to get.

I'm not saying they should not be in the game.

I'm saying they are too important to the point they are "needed". And what this does is make it extremely hard for more casual players to play this game.
So, the answer to this problem is to reduce their need, yet still leave them with value. It doesn't make the casual player as competitive as the powergamer, but it brings them closer. And close enough, in my opinion, that they might just stay with UO instead of throwing their hands in the air and saying "see ya!"

 

[Connor_Graham]

I'm saying that the ASH's, and a new item of the same kind for tailoring, is overdone and too important, yet requires loads of time that powergamers have but others don't.

It takes about 1-2 hours in the Cavern of the Discarded to obtain enough imbuing ingredients to sell to have enough to buy a +60 ASH and have gold left over.

The simple fact of the matter is that every other crafting skill that enables enhancing has a much better chance of succeeding than Tailoring does. Maybe it's time the useless stretched hides and some other of the bod reward slots were replaced with a useful item that would be easily obtainable by anyone that cared to put a little effort into it.

Your previous response to my original post was nothing more than a blatant display of jealousy, which is obviously coloring your views on the subject.

 

[Green Mouser]

It takes about 1-2 hours in the Cavern of the Discarded to obtain enough imbuing ingredients to sell to have enough to buy a +60 ASH and have gold left over.

The simple fact of the matter is that every other crafting skill that enables enhancing has a much better chance of succeeding than Tailoring does. Maybe it's time the useless stretched hides and some other of the bod reward slots were replaced with a useful item that would be easily obtainable by anyone that cared to put a little effort into it.

Your previous response to my original post was nothing more than a blatant display of jealousy, which is obviously coloring your views on the subject.

I just exceptional made/imbued/enhanced 9- 140 luck pieces for further Imbuing. Yes there was some waste. But to make an item above Imbue levels should not to be any easier. With some experience you will realize that you enhance after the "primary" attribute has been Imbue raised then you go back to Imbuing.

IMO you are asking for us to be pushed even further into "Monty Hall Land". There should be some challenge to this game.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I just exceptional made/imbued/enhanced 9- 140 luck pieces for further Imbuing. Yes there was some waste. But to make an item above Imbue levels should not to be any easier. With some experience you will realize that you enhance after the "primary" attribute has been Imbue raised then you go back to Imbuing.

IMO you are asking for us to be pushed even further into "Monty Hall Land". There should be some challenge to this game.

The major flaw in your argument is that when you enhance you increase an items overall total intensity. Thus consuming a significant amount of room for other high intensity mods. Enhancing allows you go to over the 500 cap. You cannot exceed the cap when imbuing.

 

[Flora Green]

I like it.

Devs: make it sew.

 

[Splup]

Enhancing high level wooden armor is also pain, so it's not just tailoring

 

[ZidjiN]

After a couple of days of unsuccessful enhancement attempts while trying to create an imbued luck suit, I've determined that the enhancement chances of tailoring really bite.

Why doesn't tailoring have something along the lines of a +60 ASH for use in enhancing? Tailoring seems to have the worst chance of success out of all of the crafting skills. Why is that? Even with a gargoyle with 120 Tailoring and a 25/29 talisman (yes, I know it's not supposed to work with enhancing but I'll give anything a try to get it to work) the failure rate is unacceptably high.

This needs a change. Even the miniscule garg racial bonus doesn't seem to help.

Imbue 89 luck 18 LRC is cheap and allmost never fails. So this is something that everyone can get.

140 luck, 20 LRC, 8 LMC 2mr and resists are and should be exensive to make. I you dont want to spend gold please use option one.

 

[Thunderz]

Doing it with wooden armour is just as nasty. I just made 200 wooden gorgets and of them 31 were within the tolerances i needed, POF'd them all imbued them all and them enhanced them all with heartwood, of them 31 only 5 survived and only 1 of them had the 5% hci i needed and it happened to be one of the ones i wasnt to bothered about it surviving!!

Now i need another 1000 bark to keep trying it gets damn expensive but having a gorget with 8 SI, 8 MI, 5 HPI, 2MR, 1 SR, 5 HCI and 60+ resists will be well worth it

Thunderz

 

[Coragin]

Well I made armor two days ago, woodland, which is lower than tailoring in terms of skill to enhance after imbue.

Added 5 mods, yes 5 mods. Total weight BEFORE enhancement was 475/500.

What I did was make 20 exceptional pieces. Use 10 changes of POF on each to bring each to about 170. Imbued everything, using "Imbue Last Property" after the first imbue on all the other pieces. Went through all 5 mods. When that was done I opened my saw, set to Heartwood and went to enhancing one by one.

Of the 20 I had 5 successful. Which to me sees about right.

Now I dont know if you are trying to do max mods, like 100 luck then enhance 40. But I can tell you first hand, trying to enhance a max mod like that is very rough and rightfully so. My suggestion with luck is go 90, your only losing 10 luck and it makes a big difference in the enhance part.

Also, if your looking for mage armor, why dont you do the samurai armor in smithing? It comes with the mage armor tag and then you can use +60 hammer.

I guess my point is, you have an alternative here. Yes you would lose one mod by it being mage armor and not leather, but your success chances go through the roof.

But still I like the idea of + tailoring item, would love a +Carp and Tink one too since you make things with them now too. Its time to catch up all the tradeskills and get them on the same level.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I guess my point is, you have an alternative here. Yes you would lose one mod by it being mage armor and not leather, but your success chances go through the roof.

I can't afford to have 1 mod lost. The requirements of the suit won't allow 6 slots across the whole suit to be unusable.

 

[ZippyTwitch]

Some of us are trying to enhance imbued armor. For example, imbue 100 luck then enhance with spined for 140 luck. This gets very costly when you consider the special materials plus powder of fortification.

Well I don't have SA expansion yet so I dont know anything about imbueing. But if you can enhance after imbueing.....Well that is one of the stupidist impliments to this game so far. Talk about overpowering armour and weapons.

 

[Fink]

Some of us are trying to enhance imbued armor. For example, imbue 100 luck then enhance with spined for 140 luck. This gets very costly when you consider the special materials plus powder of fortification.

Luckily two of the reasons to enhance after imbuing are relatively cheap.

With Luck chaga mushrooms spawn on the ground and respawn shortly after being picked up. You can gather quite a few in a short session, or just take a horde minion with you if you don't want to pick shrooms.

For Resists, boura pelts are a guaranteed drop with high plains boura just outside the city and very easy for even a mediocre hunter to gather.

Can't do much about the price of powder, but at least you can collect it yourself without risk.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Some of us are trying to enhance imbued armor. For example, imbue 100 luck then enhance with spined for 140 luck. This gets very costly when you consider the special materials plus powder of fortification.

Well I don't have SA expansion yet so I dont know anything about imbueing. But if you can enhance after imbueing.....Well that is one of the stupidist impliments to this game so far. Talk about overpowering armour and weapons.

It's part of the system of making magic. I like that in itself. It should be harder to make things with more and more magic.

The problem, as always, is with the strengths of the magic.

 

[Shelleybean]

General post not directed to anyone. There seem to be a lot of highly opinionated responses from players who obviously have not spent a lot of time enhancing. I guess I'm a little bitter after breaking my stuff over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

 

[Serine]

But cant you make the 140 Luck with a runic tool and then imbue if needed ?

 

[Speedy Orkit]

Let's get carp/fletch PS's 120 first. kthx

 

[Trebr Drab]

Let's get carp/fletch PS's 120 first. kthx

Isn't it time yet for 140 PS's?

 

[Stupid Miner]

Let's get carp/fletch PS's 120 first. kthx

/tinkering

... pain failing to repair imbued jewelry several times over.

 

[Smokin]

No to the carp/fletch/tink 120s Just lower the difficulty on some of the items. 120 skill is dumb and should never have been put in the game.

 

[Stupid Miner]

No to the carp/fletch/tink 120s Just lower the difficulty on some of the items. 120 skill is dumb and should never have been put in the game.

That's preferable, sure, but more work for the dev team, therefore less likely to happen.

 

[killer instinct]

I can see enhancing to obtain 140 luck could be hard.Other than luck, enhancing really is not required on suits.I can make a corpse proof 70's suit without enhancing.I just make as many sleeves or whatever type of armor you are making and find the one that fits my resists.Imbue it after powder of fort and shazam.Nice piece.I do hate breaking my bows however to gain swing speed lol.I also think samarai plate has better resists than leather thus you might not use as much Boura pelt.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Shouldn't really be that much more work. The crafted items database is likely a table that's easily modified. A few hours changing difficulties is all that's needed. Obviously testing and tweaking would require more time but that's true of any changes.

 

[Stupid Miner]

Shouldn't really be that much more work. The crafted items database is likely a table that's easily modified. A few hours changing difficulties is all that's needed. Obviously testing and tweaking would require more time but that's true of any changes.

Well it's comparative work. Tweaking all the craftables/repairs vs add 120 PS

 

[Jhym]

Another option that could be put forward is an enhancement "stabilizer". Which would be an item (for a cost) that is consumed in place of breaking the item.

They could either be purchased or added through the bod systems (but then they would need to be non-skill specific.)

They could work two distinct ways, depending on how you want to use them:

1) 100% non-breakage for the item, but the stabilizer is destroyed when the enhancement is done regardless of win or lose. This use is more expensive than #2.
2) a reduction in the "apparent" points of the object's mods based on the capability of the stabilizer. So there might be a stabilizer with 150 points on it -- it makes the item it is used with "look" like it is 150 points lower to the enhancement calculation, perhaps taking each item property in order of size. If the item breaks you lose the item and the stabilizer, otherwise you keep both.

You then offer stabilizers (I'm thinking they would look like vises) at various intensity levels. If through the bod/quest systems they need to be fairly easy to get on the low end but quite rare for the best. If through cash, I'd say they require several hundred K or more for the top end ones, with a 50 point reducer probably being in the 10K range. If through crafting, the ingredients should be wide ranging and also give extra capabilities, but very expensive.

You could also allow multiple ones to be attached, though diminishing returns should apply above 200 points.

I'm just throwing numbers out, most likely the points "reduced" would be capped at 100 or so and the costs should scale. It's more the method of purchase/gathering that would take the most time to determine.

So if you had an item that did this sort of thing on your high-end enhancables, would you use it?

 

[georgemarvin2001]

As much as I hate having 95%+ failure rates at enhancing 100 luck, 8 LMC, 2 MR, 2 HPR wood armor to 140 luck, if I didn't fail a lot, every tamer in the game would have max luck uber gear. If an item was introduced that would guarantee success at enhancing, it should cost several million per charge. I would be willing to pay 5 million a pop to guarantee success in enhancing a 5 hp/8 stam/8 mana/100 luck or 7 LMC/MR2 or SR3, 255 durability piece of armor with Bloodwood to add HPR2 and an extra 18 resists. In fact, 10 million would still be a bargain.

I do like the idea of +skill thimbles, tinker's tools and carpenters' saws, like in the blacksmith system. Especially carpenters; we have it even worse than tailors. At least the tailor can get 120 skill. Carpenters are stuck at 100.

 

[Nyses]

I've read the whole post, lots of opinions on both sides and for various reasons.

Blacksmithing Has:
120 powerscroll
+10 +15 +30 and +60 ASH Hammers (max 180 smithing)
Prospectors tools (easier specific ore collection )
Gargoyle Pickaxes (again easier high end ore)
+5 mining gloves (max 105 mining)
Runic Hammers

Tailoring has:
120 powerscroll
Runic Sewing Kits

Fletching, Carpentry, and Tinkering have even less

Where is the balance and love for crafting? I say yes to ATT (Ancient Tailoring Thimbles) And, How about Treefellow Axes, and Prospecting tools for trees, and Treefellow guardians that spawn. Tinkering REALLY needs some love now, how about runics or special tool kits for tinkering.

The insurance changes are nice and all, but ....

 

[RawHeadRex]

hmmm I like the thimble and other ideas a lot but ...


we need to think how a PK hacker would abuse it to kill people - dev team