60 parry on sampire temp?

[Elandir]

Thanks to everyone that helped me out with weapon choices, I learned a lot.

Now I have run into an issue with my template. I went back and read Lynk's post on his sampire and a few other posts and almost all the templates I saw posted only have 60 parry. Is this all I really need? I need to start losing skill points somewhere since I have now maxed out my skill points and I'm not even close to maxing out my individual skills. I'm currently sitting at:

Anatomy 100.0/110.0 - Locked
Bushido 111.1/115.0
Chivalry 85.4/100.0
Necromancy 99.0/120.0 - Locked
Parrying 109.1/115.0
Swordsmanship 107.0/110.0
Tactics 108.4/110.0

I know I need to take Swordsmanship, Tactics, Bushido to 120.0 if I ever get the money for the power scrolls. I know I read somewhere that Chivalry has to be at least 84.0 or 85.0 to get the highest damage increase from Enemy of One. Necromancy has to be 99.0 to cast Vampiric Embrace. So that leaves me dropping Parrying. Is that where I should be going or did I overlook something somewhere?

Thanks again everyone for the help.

 

[NuSair]

60 parry is so you still get the mana cost reduction for special moves.

 

[Obsidian]

Pub 71 made the Sampire template a bit cramped with the Chivalry changes. In order to skim points, many people adjusted their template to reduce parrying yet keep the minimum to get the mana reduction on special moves. You need 300 Skill points in the following skills to get the 10 mana reduction on specials. If you have 200-299 skill points then you only get a reduction of 5. If you chain Armor Ignors, 40 LMC with -10 mana reduction makes a huge difference. This is from Special Moves - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia"

• Swordsmanship
• Mace Fighting
• Fencing
• Archery
• Parrying
• Lumberjacking
• Stealth
• Poisoning
• Bushido
• Ninjitsu
• Throwing

Most people get to 300 exactly with 120 Weapon Skill, 120 Bushido, and 60 Parry. When I am training, or if I an not scrolled to 120 Bushido, I increase the parry to ensure I have 300 points exactly.

BTW, just a reminder, but human JOAT skill points no longer affect your computation for the mana reduction benefit for special moves.

-OBSIDIAN-

 

[Elandir]

So by dropping parry down to 60.0, how much more am I going to get hit or don't I need to worry about that with having the leeches on my weapons?

 

[semmerset]

Parry 60 is only for mana reduction on special moves.
Only champion spawn,it is no problem for no parry,I chosen lumberjacking.
But parry is better choice.
By the way only parry 60,you can not paragon greater dragon,better is parry 100 over.
Parry 60 or over,you choice.

Your hit = healing
If you dont have mace and shiled glasses,your weapon need mana leech,stamina leech and hit lower deffense.
And it is important for keep fastest weapon swing.

 

[Obsidian]

So by dropping parry down to 60.0, how much more am I going to get hit or don't I need to worry about that with having the leeches on my weapons?

Your chance to get hit is dependent on a few things. Most important is your weapon skill vs that of your opponent. Then HCI and DCI and HLD/HLA are factored. Then parry is considered. The difference to parry goes from 40% at 120 parry to 20% at 60 parry. Those values aren't exact as it depends on 1h vs 2h weapons, and dex as well.

 

[CorwinXX]

Don't forget than a half of bushido spells depends on your parry. So I believe 100 tactics/anatomy/parry is better than 120 tactics/anatomy + 60 parry.
For example, 20 anatomy gives you just 10% of damage. For a longsword it's about 1.5 damage (4.5 damage with 3x bonus and AI).

Yes, there're an issue with sampires: less damage => less mana leach => less AI => even less damage. So people usually try to maximize damage. But now we have a better way: 100% HML on longsword must be enough for chain AI.

 

[Mirt]

Don't forget than a half of bushido spells depends on your parry. So I believe 100 tactics/anatomy/parry is better than 120 tactics/anatomy + 60 parry.
For example, 20 anatomy gives you just 10% of damage. For a longsword it's about 1.5 damage (4.5 damage with 3x bonus and AI).

Yes, there're an issue with sampires: less damage => less mana leach => less AI => even less damage. So people usually try to maximize damage. But now we have a better way: 100% HML on longsword must be enough for chain AI.

No it depends HML isn't a 100% thing. Also some monsters seem to have really crappy mana returns. Its a idea but it will be based on what your fighting. Your completely right about parry effecting bushido spells for example confidence with no parry is a bit of a boost to your hp but if you have parry it can really be a huge healing aid.

 

[CorwinXX]

As to my experience mana leached by HML doesn't depends on monster type.
You can get 100% on a longsword but need 15 SSI (in addition to 20 SSI on the weapon).

You can get a (non-faction) suit:
Super Slayer, 100 HML, 46 HSL, 30 HLD, 35 SSI, 45 HCI, 45 DCI
150 hp, 196 stamina, 115 mana, 70/95/70/70/75, 50 EP, 40 LMC

p.s. 100% HML = 0-30% mana leached
with 150 average damage you will leach ~23 mana with every hit (sometimes 0, sometimes 50)

 

[LlamaOnDrugs]

Have people considered Ninjitsu instead of parry to get the mana reduction?

Without party you can benefit from the stat gains of a shield with no penalty, and now that some of the reformed shields are as good as they are it may be worth it. In addition at 60 Ninjitsu you get mirror images for those oh crap moments!

Comments?

 

[NuSair]

If you are using a shield that you don't want to get damaged, you need parry for that.

Also, I really like evasion.

 

[Obsidian]

I agree with NuSair... Evasion, even with 60 parry, is effective for keeping you alive in those tight situations.

Really, you can use whatever you want to get your 300 points towards the mana reduction for weapons specials. 120 Weapon Skill, 120 Bushido, and 60 Parry is just one way to get there.

 

[Gorbs]

I've considered Ninjitsu, but don't believe it is worthwhile. You can't cast mirror images when mounted and none of the other spells really appealed to me as a sampire. I actually don't use parry though, except on off shards where my chars aren't scrolled/suited up well. I usually use either poisoning or healing. Poisoning gives me the mana discount, but is only useful when someone raids. Healing doesn't give me a mana discount, but that only slows me down a little.

 

[Mirt]

It really depends but overall the lowered mana cost does seem to help. CorwinXX my experience is that even with 100 HML its going to depend how much you get back based on what your going after. Some bosses seem to just have more mana to give. When I get a chance I will try and do some math to see if its just how I have been doing them or if at some point it really does slow down and if it does to try and come up with some crazy math for it, but with my schedule how it is that might take a while. I agree that if you have the option of adding in a 100 HML you should do it.

 

[CorwinXX]

p.s. 100% HML = 0-30% mana leached
with 150 average damage you will leach ~23 mana with every hit (sometimes 0, sometimes 50)

Oops! 0-30% is for life leach. For mana leach the true value is 0-40%. So with 150 average damage and 100% HML you will leach (at average) 30 mana with every hit.

Everyone knows that UO RNG works "in series". And to get mana back you usually need to be lucky two times.
For example, you have a longsword 67% HML 30 SSI and have done 170 damage with a hit.
1. 67% chances that your HML works
2. when you get lucky you can leach 0-68 mana... I don't khow exactly distibution but suppose that your chances to leach 24+ mana are ~65%
With UO RNG you can get unlucky seria on the step 1 or on the step 2, so it isn't something unusual to do several hits without (or with low) mana leached.

p.s. Compare to Vampire form that will gives you 100% chance to leach 20-20% life. RNG doesn't affect life you leach.

 

[Mirt]

Oops! 0-30% is for life leach. For mana leach the true value is 0-40%. So with 150 average damage and 100% HML you will leach (at average) 30 mana with every hit.

Everyone knows that UO RNG works "in series". And to get mana back you usually need to be lucky two times.
For example, you have a longsword 67% HML 30 SSI and have done 170 damage with a hit.
1. 67% chances that your HML works
2. when you get lucky you can leach 0-68 mana... I don't khow exactly distibution but suppose that your chances to leach 24+ mana are ~65%
With UO RNG you can get unlucky seria on the step 1 or on the step 2, so it isn't something unusual to do several hits without (or with low) mana leached.

p.s. Compare to Vampire form that will gives you 100% chance to leach 20-20% life. RNG doesn't affect life you leach.

I thought your math was a bit low on that. Its all going to depend on your champ damage but some seem to I don't know how to put it other then it seems like they have lower mana give back. I will try and get some testing done so I can give real numbers as opposed to just my feelings on it. Sadly I am in a bit of a time deficit right now. I will try and get on it as soon as I can but I am also ordering a new computer and I expect that to change my priorities soon enough. Also for testing your right that RNG kills so much of my math its such a pain that its so streaky. Until I get the chance to test it and bring it here I am going to agree with you because the posted numbers back you up. I just want to state a warning that for some reason my current experience doesn't seem to fully confirm the numbers.

 

[Driven Insane]

Anatomy 100.0/110.0 - Locked
Bushido 111.1/115.0
Chivalry 85.4/100.0
Necromancy 99.0/120.0 - Locked
Parrying 109.1/115.0
Swordsmanship 107.0/110.0
Tactics 108.4/110.0

I personally don't see much benefit to take Bushido over 110, maybe even 100. As far as I know it doesn't increase your damage or anything besides duration of some spells along with counting towards the mana reduction. Correct me if I'm wrong guys.

Here's my template based on Lynk's chain AI design:

fencing 120
tactics 120
resist/anatomy 110
necro 100
bushido 110
parry 75
chivalry 85

 

[NuSair]

I personally don't see much benefit to take Bushido over 110, maybe even 100. As far as I know it doesn't increase your damage or anything besides duration of some spells along with counting towards the mana reduction. Correct me if I'm wrong guys.

It increases your damage on Whirlwind, plus gives you an increased chance to crit on LS at least.
Bushido gives a damage bonus to Whirlwind : ((# of opponents * Bushido) * (# of opponents * Bushido) / 3600) = Bonus Damage

 

[Mirt]

It increases your damage on Whirlwind, plus gives you an increased chance to crit on LS at least.
Bushido gives a damage bonus to Whirlwind : ((# of opponents * Bushido) * (# of opponents * Bushido) / 3600) = Bonus Damage

Yes of course most of us have given up lightening strike after the mana increase to it and moved to chaining AIs. Its amazing when you think that we used to chain LS. Ahh the memories before the nerf.

 

[NuSair]

I still lightning strike occasionally, when I hit a bad string of rng and run low on mana.

 

[Mirt]

I still lightning strike occasionally, when I hit a bad string of rng and run low on mana.

I do the same but never more then 3 as I find its worth waiting a bit and hitting another AI but that might be weapon specific.

 

[Driven Insane]

It increases your damage on Whirlwind, plus gives you an increased chance to crit on LS at least.
Bushido gives a damage bonus to Whirlwind : ((# of opponents * Bushido) * (# of opponents * Bushido) / 3600) = Bonus Damage

Ok, thanks for clarifying that.

Doesn't change anything for me personally because I don't use either of those 2 moves/spells. Wish there was a decent fencing Whirlwind weapon, but since there isn't I go with the next best thing and have a Hit Area effect on my weapons.

 

[NuSair]

Ok, thanks for clarifying that.

Doesn't change anything for me personally because I don't use either of those 2 moves/spells. Wish there was a decent fencing Whirlwind weapon, but since there isn't I go with the next best thing and have a Hit Area effect on my weapons.

There is, Kamas are pretty damn good actually. I've been using them on my main sampire since I started playing one.

 

[Driven Insane]

There is, Kamas are pretty damn good actually. I've been using them on my main sampire since I started playing one.

You're right. I should have clarified by saying a good 1 handed WW weapon.

 

[CorwinXX]

Bushido greatly increase healing from confidiance.
With 120 Bushido you need just 8 hits to get perfection (not sure it's a pros)
Bushido increase chances to Momentum Strike
Bushido increase chance to block with Evasion

 

[Obsidian]

Don't under estimate momentum strike as a means to take on a second foe when you are tanking the higher levels of a spawn or the champ itself. I use MS down in Shame when a second UEV latches onto me and I can take both at once with MS. I couldn't do that with WW.

 

[Driven Insane]

Bushido greatly increase healing from confidiance.
With 120 Bushido you need just 8 hits to get perfection (not sure it's a pros)
Bushido increase chances to Momentum Strike
Bushido increase chance to block with Evasion

I tried looking online and asking in game what the actual differences in 110 and 120 Bushido were, but got no responses that made me think it made much difference. Thus I just stopped at 110 and called it good.

I could easily drop my Parry to 65 and raise Bushido to 120 (Already scrolled to 120).

fencing 120
tactics 120
resist/anatomy 110
necro 100
bushido 120
parry 65
chivalry 85

 

[CorwinXX]

120 bushido + 65 parry gives you almost the same chance to block as 110 bushido + 75 parry (21% vs 22%) while your bushido spells are improved (for example, 40 vs 36 damage healed with passive confidence).

 

[Driven Insane]

Don't under estimate momentum strike as a means to take on a second foe when you are tanking the higher levels of a spawn or the champ itself.

Honestly I hadn't messed with momentum strike much before, but I figured I'd fiddle around with it. So for gits and shiggles, I went to Doom and of course blew through the rooms while barely paying attention (Family Guy still makes me laugh, even the reruns). Anyways, it sure did the job when the Dark Father had all his crap spawning around me. Between the Hit Area Effect and momentum strike, the spawn was barely alive long enough to wonder wth just hit it.

Thanks for the suggestion