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[Blacksmithing] 5 part vs 6 part weapons LBODs

Dizzy

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I was filling out a 6-part 20/Ex axes LBOD and noticed something. Is this right?

Source: Blacksmith Bulk Orders – Ultima Online

upload_2018-7-2_12-50-44.png

Are 5 part weapon LBS really worth more than the 6 part LBODs? I can confirm the 20/Ex/Axes is worth 550 pts.
 

Basara

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Yes, it's always been true - though for several years in the early-2000s, ToR's tables had the values reversed because they made the same error in assumption that "bigger is always worth more". They were informed of the error by one of the devs around 2005 and changed their charts. Some places that had copied ToR without permission, instead of using the old EA support file info, had errant information for the next decade because they never bothered to look for updates.

The reason that they are worth more is that the smalls are for the most difficult smith-made weapons in the BOD system.

It's also one of the reasons why then non-6-parters were desirable with some, before the point system.

2-parter LBODs, when exceptional, had a 20% or 90% chance (20 count) of POF. With the point system, now only the 20-counts can be used for POF, but those are an easy bribe (at most, 3 bribes per BOD), and use iron.

Originally, the Normal 20-count 5-part LBODs had a 20% POF chance as well - and could be filled by BUYING all the components to fill, making it a REALLY cheap way to try for POF (though you had to go to a weaponsmith (like the ones in Moonglow and Jhelom), not a blacksmith, to buy the war forks). How cheap? 2k or so of NPC weapons for a 20% POF chance (or around 800 or so ingots if you had to craft, since you could use exceptionals to fill normal larges).

The point changes eliminated the 20ct 5-part Normal's chance for POF, but now you can use any of the 5-part (and 6-part) exceptionals for POF.
 

Lord Frodo

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Are you keeping track of the resources you are using to fill these BODs and comparing it to the points/reward you get?
 

Dizzy

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yup. I must have made the same error as TOR, making the assumption 6pt was worth more than 5pt.

For instance, today I had a 20/N/Gold Heater shield. Normally I would fill it for a POF, but it appeared to be a break even proposition:

upload_2018-7-2_16-18-34.png

It costs 63k in gold ingots, and I could probably sell it for 65k. But why bother. I'll bribe it up to at least a dull copper runic hammer.
 

Basara

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I count Iron ingots as 8 GP value.

After all, being on a low population shard, I can go to Ilshenar and find at least one random-spawn gypsy camp selling the ingots for that much for the first 1000.

Everything else, the value is "the sweat of my brow" because unless I get someone that wants to give me colored ingots (like, back in the holiday tree thing), I'm on my own getting them in the field (killing elementals, mining, etc.) because you can't find them for sale here. No one thinks that the cross-shard prices are remotely connected to reality, and if we try to vendor sell them for what we think is a fair price at home, someone empties the vendor and sells the deeds on Atlantic.
 

Dizzy

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Those were gold ingots, not iron. And I value them at the going purchase price because it would make more sense to sell the ingots than waste the time doing the bods.
 

Basara

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While I understood what was being referenced, I would also point out that on most shards not named Atlantic, gold really isn't that intrinsically valuable due to Blackthorn's. My miner can use up an entire gold smelting talisman in 45-60 minutes down there. I've been known to bribe copper and bronze BODs TO gold to make them easier to fill more than the increase in points (normal 20, or any gold Exceptional, works better than having to find veins to elevate to copper or bronze).
 

Lord Frodo

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While I understood what was being referenced, I would also point out that on most shards not named Atlantic, gold really isn't that intrinsically valuable due to Blackthorn's. My miner can use up an entire gold smelting talisman in 45-60 minutes down there. I've been known to bribe copper and bronze BODs TO gold to make them easier to fill more than the increase in points (normal 20, or any gold Exceptional, works better than having to find veins to elevate to copper or bronze).
This was about iron wep bods and you totally take it to gold ingot bods, why?
 

Dizzy

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@Lord Frodo I think iron vs gold was my doing, sorry.

Here's info on the iron weapons -
upload_2018-7-3_5-38-34.png
upload_2018-7-3_5-39-31.png

Not the best value, for sure. I can sell iron ingots at 150gp so it's actually more profitable to sell the iron.

As for the gold, I understand @Basara 's point, but I'm not in agreement. Just because gold is easy to farm doesn't take away from the fact that gold ingots have a sale price. If you can sell x number of gold ingots for 100k, or turn it into a filled gold bod and cash it for a POF that you sell for 60k, it still makes more sense to sell the gold ingots.
 

Lord Frodo

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To me most of the wep bods cost more than what they are worth esp. the lbods (excluding the 2 part PoF lbod). I do the small that take 10 or less ingots per piece to turn in to get another bod and trash most of the rewards for a few clean up points. The rest of the iron only bods go in the trash or on the ground.
 

Dizzy

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That's the real reason I built the spreadsheet. It seemed intuitive to fill the iron bods, but they're money losers.

If you're trying to save up for something, like a Valorite runic hammer, that's different. You're just going to have to bank stuff until you've saved up enough points.

But if you're in it to resell the rewards, then knowing costs are vital. That same Valorite hammer, maybe sell for 2 million gold. It takes 1200 points to get there, or 1667 gold per point. The iron axe lbod in the example above, costs 2236 gold for each banked point. Ergo, one cannot make money buy selling a valorite hammer for 2 million gold. You'd have to sell that hammer for 2.7 million gold just to break even.
 

Basara

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This was about iron wep bods and you totally take it to gold ingot bods, why?
I didn't - I was commenting on Dizzy's reply about the value of a gold BOD. Dizzy went there, I just commented on it.

Why so touchy, when you didn't even start the thread (Dizzy did)?
 

Lord Frodo

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I didn't - I was commenting on Dizzy's reply about the value of a gold BOD. Dizzy went there, I just commented on it.

Why so touchy, when you didn't even start the thread (Dizzy did)?
I am sorry U are right Dizzy told me
 
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