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NEWS [UO.Com] Updated Publish 81 on TC1

Petra Fyde

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Moving shot, magical short bow......doesnt matter. If your a mage and you go up against a dexer with fast swing speed you will be screwed, you will just constantly fizz.

This is the sort of patch that could in effect see the end of mages in pvp.
pardon my ignorance, but isn't that what properties like 'casting focus' are for? Being only a mediocre pvm mage I prevent fizzles by using protection. I guess that's not feasible in pvp.
 

Winker

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Moving shot, magical short bow......doesnt matter. If your a mage and you go up against a dexer with fast swing speed you will be screwed, you will just constantly fizz.

This is the sort of patch that could in effect see the end of mages in pvp.
Any self respecting PvP Mage that goes toe to toe with a Dexter should win hands down. Once a Mage drops into protection and then casts curse on the Dexter, its toast for the dexter, and if you are playing a parry mage with wrestle then you can even win without taking any damage.

And you know it!
 

Cetric

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honestly, im getting really frustrated with all this. There are so many parts of this publish i'm looking forward to, but for ****s sake. two more weeks go by and instead of adjusting/tweaking a few things for players to accept the refinements, fix stam leeching, and say ok! now its time to get this rolling... they add +4 to every resist type, confuse me with hld, make me feel like i'd need to update all my suits for more resist and taking out dci, and now we get to sit here and debate for another who knows how long.

- the weapon/special updates are fine across the board.
- the previous armor updates (stam reduction/lmc) were fine across the board
- the hld needed some tweaking, but ur update is a little confusing, hits mages in the nuts too much, and hurts current suits.
- refinements were ok, they just needed some tweaking with their ease of use, which you did with this update i guess
- the new added resists makes all previous suits fairly obsolete, the same as the dci/hld change. don't do this to people.

but rather than address the obvious complaints, all veyr small and adjustable pieces i would think, you just toss out adding armor resist. After two weeks, what did you do? did you write Fire Phys Cold Energy Poison on a dart board, yell out VERITE and throw 4 darts? did this process take two weeks?

I've been a giant advocate of this publish, more than most, and i'm just getting sick of this. Between the unplayable lag, and wanting to roll out new suits/characters but this publish holding it up...UGGHHH. Why would i make a new suit and imbue all the weapons when this publish is on the horizon?

I'm done testing this stuff.. im done working on any of it. get this ****in thing on the move, its been what, 2 months of debating, whining, crying, testing, suggesting? VERY minor stuff needs removed and adjsuted in this. FIX THEM AND MOVE IT TO ORIGIN! i think this +4 resist crap should come out, anyone who cares about their suits will have to redo them, and that was one of the biggest goals from the beginning, no one wants to redo suits to stay on top of things, it was just giving other armor a use WHICH THE STAM REDUCTION AND LMC DID.

Scrap the dci/HLD changes and refinements for now, lets debate this at a later time. i think you shouldn't be able to overcap dci, but i dont think you should make it so dci isn't effective over 45% either. now anyone who has say 65% dci in their suit, 20% is useless. this is bad. just take this out and we'll debate it some other day in the future.

I mean god, maybe make it so the most you can overcap dci to after HLD is 40% or something, so it still drops from 45% but isn't so drastic.
 
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Another Lamer

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Any self respecting PvP Mage that goes toe to toe with a Dexter should win hands down. Once a Mage drops into protection and then casts curse on the Dexter, its toast for the dexter, and if you are playing a parry mage with wrestle then you can even win without taking any damage.

And you know it!

- Parry Mages will be fine
- Any other mage will be screwed
- Any mage that plays in protection will never win, wait a life time to cast a spell why the dexer runs 2 screens away
- Petra, I know you only pvm which is why you shouldn't really comment on things like pvp and casting focus (it isnt really that great, you can argue it is "ok" if you take scribe).
- If this publish goes live, you will find yet another wave of players leave and mage pvp will die a death. There is a phrase that comes to mind with DCI... "If it aint broke fix it until it is"

Already adapted as I have several parry mages and I have just made a nice new dexer in the last hour to abuse these awful awful changes.

RIP UO
 

RaistlinNowhere

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One question devs, im a bit dissapointed that you only raised the resists a bit , as an ingots revamp for armors, BUT what happens with weapons made of other material than iron?
 

Cetric

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With a set 55% drop in DCI, why not continue to allow overcapping? Hell, someone with 70% DCI then would drop to 32% and still be gravely effected by HLD.

Id advocate for changing it to halving DCI by 50% instead of 55% (easier calculation in your head, easier to explain to non-power gamer players "hld cuts your defence chance in half") and allow overcapping if you want. You would have to get to 90DCI before you would completely overcap dci, and if you wanted to do that, more power to you, your suit would be dedicated to resisting hit lower defense then.
 
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CovenantX

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Moving shot, magical short bow......doesnt matter. If your a mage and you go up against a dexer with fast swing speed you will be screwed, you will just constantly fizz.

This is the sort of patch that could in effect see the end of mages in pvp.
Timing is key, what can I say? cast spells between getting hit... you act like it's hard or something.
nothing has changed enough to be game-breaking.

You will get hit roughly 20% more of the time after being affected by HLD than before (at 45 dci)...that's not so bad.

Hell, with UO's RNG you could still be missed 6+ times in a row. (DCI = RNG vs your attackers HCI/RNG). this is a change that was much needed. play a dexer if you don't like it.

I for one am happy dexers (not just throwers) would be somewhat more challenging in pvp.

If you don't let us over cap DCI (to 70) or have it setup the way you were previously going to do it where it was an option for people who used the system to raise their resists to benefit in some way or they could choose to keep the DCI and setup they had before. I think that if you go this route where DCI cannot be "overcapped" at 70 then you need to fix resists and everything else. Because as is now we can take our fire and poison resist and any other resists to 85 and be "Corpse Skin Proof"... Doesn't make much sense to allow "some things" to be over capped and others like defense chance increase to not be?
If resistances couldn't be over-capped against corpse skin, necro-mages would be overpowered.

If you have 55% Fire & Poison resistances you would die in exp+fs+poison strike+painspike... everytime unless you evaded one of the spells or healed between the hits.
(some people die to that combo at all 60s).. There's not much RNG between damage done, unless you don't get hit in the first place.

If they were to change resistances to not allow over-capping... corpse skin should work like Magery>Curse and not take any resistances below 60.
 

Lord Frodo

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Maybe we are being encouraged to do the void pool for maps and smelting talismans? I'm currently working on Zosilem quests with a view to being able to reach his level 3 quest 'Pure Valorite" I have 5 more level 2 quests to do.


I've probably got it all wrong, but I was planning to make a suit in valorite on the theory that less imbuing would be needed to raise resists, leaving me more slots for other properties?
Void Pool has died on most shards and as you can tell the Quests take a long time to do and IMHO are not worth the sffort.

As far as making a Val Plate Suit compaired to a Barbed Leather Suit (both EXP) you only get a total of 6 extra resist points for the whole suit. IMHO it is not worth using a rare resource for such a little gain.

Total resist for an EXP Barbed Leather Suit is 306.
Total resist for an EXP Val Plate Suit is 312.
 

Winker

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- Parry Mages will be fine
- Any other mage will be screwed
- Any mage that plays in protection will never win, wait a life time to cast a spell why the dexer runs 2 screens away
- Petra, I know you only pvm which is why you shouldn't really comment on things like pvp and casting focus (it isnt really that great, you can argue it is "ok" if you take scribe).
- If this publish goes live, you will find yet another wave of players leave and mage pvp will die a death. There is a phrase that comes to mind with DCI... "If it aint broke fix it until it is"

Already adapted as I have several parry mages and I have just made a nice new dexer in the last hour to abuse these awful awful changes.

RIP UO

Well if the Dexter runs away, you win by default. Not all wins = the death of your opponent.


I will say it again, 1v1 Mage v Dexter, once a mage drops into protection the Dexter can never win, unless the Mage cant PvP and once the mage has cast curse on the Dexter they stand even less chance of living.
 

Lord Frodo

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pardon my ignorance, but isn't that what properties like 'casting focus' are for? Being only a mediocre pvm mage I prevent fizzles by using protection. I guess that's not feasible in pvp.
- Petra, I know you only pvm which is why you shouldn't really comment on things like pvp and casting focus (it isnt really that great, you can argue it is "ok" if you take scribe).
WTF She asked a question and look you give the standard "I am GOD in PvP stay out of our thread BS" and you wounder why people hate PvP Trash Talkers like you.

I must commend you on your user name it fits you so well

Lamer The term is derived from lame. A lamer is widely understood to be the antithesis of a hacker. While a hacker strives to understand the mechanisms behind what he or she uses, even when such extended knowledge would have no practical value, a lamer only cares to learn the bare minimum necessary to operate the device in the way originally intended. Thus, a lamer is usually indistinguishable from someone who is too lame to understand why something works even if they wanted to. A lamer's attitude is summed up by the phrase, "I don't care how it works, just that it does".
 

Petra Fyde

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Void Pool has died on most shards and as you can tell the Quests take a long time to do and IMHO are not worth the sffort.

As far as making a Val Plate Suit compaired to a Barbed Leather Suit (both EXP) you only get a total of 6 extra resist points for the whole suit. IMHO it is not worth using a rare resource for such a little gain.

Total resist for an EXP Barbed Leather Suit is 306.
Total resist for an EXP Val Plate Suit is 312.
Yes - but the reason for a warrior to switch from Barbed Leather to Valorite is also the stamina loss protection.
I made a val suit on test - didn't make several of each item, just made a suit. It needed just 5 imbues to take the whole suit to all 70s - that leaves me potentially 25 imbue slots for other things.
 

Kage

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pardon my ignorance, but isn't that what properties like 'casting focus' are for? Being only a mediocre pvm mage I prevent fizzles by using protection. I guess that's not feasible in pvp.

If you're running Inscribe you can obtain 17% Casting focus... Most mages don't even run Inscribe due to the mass dismounts in todays pvp so the most they could even have on a suit would be 12% Casting focus and that would rarely even go off so most don't even run casting focus because it's pretty much useless.

Now everyone will just play a Archer and take advantage of never missing because of the NEW HIT LOWER DEFENSE changes and spam moving shot on you until you die.
 

Lord Frodo

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Yes - but the reason for a warrior to switch from Barbed Leather to Valorite is also the stamina loss protection.
I made a val suit on test - didn't make several of each item, just made a suit. It needed just 5 imbues to take the whole suit to all 70s - that leaves me potentially 25 imbue slots for other things.
%100 agree that if you are going for the Stam Loss Protection then Plate is the way to go. I like to refer to your http://uo.stratics.com/hunters/index.shtml esp if I am just going out to fight things that do just Phy Damage I will just use a Dull Copper Plate with no Imbuing so it will last forever, repair and PoF as needed. You may want to test Copper and Bronze Runic Hammers also as you can still get them at a reasonable price and maybe get a suit that you do not have to imbue at all, repair and PoF as needed.
 

Lythos-

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Now everyone will just play a Archer and take advantage of never missing because of the NEW HIT LOWER DEFENSE changes and spam moving shot on you until you die.
C'mon guys, this is an "armor revamp" meaning things aren't going to stay the same.

The only reason an archer would never miss would be if you failed to adapt to the armor revamp to overcap and become HLD proof.

As for running shot, it's EASILY negated by doing this: STOP RUNNING. Seriously, it works.

A quick breakdown of whats what. I don't think archers will be willing to give up velocity or balanced just for HLD which brings me to a quick fact i learned off UOGuide that does trouble me if this information is updated and correct.
-THERE IS NO HARD CAP ON STACKING HLD. This means- if i imbue 50hld onto a wep and use the ninja skill "focus attack" it will double this so i can hit near 100% of the time for the full 8 seconds.

Please correct me if i'm wrong as i just learned this. Instead of redoing DCI how about a hard cap on HLD at 30% against players? I think this would balance the issue between getting hit and missing.
 

Kage

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C'mon guys, this is an "armor revamp" meaning things aren't going to stay the same.

The only reason an archer would never miss would be if you failed to adapt to the armor revamp to overcap and become HLD proof.

As for running shot, it's EASILY negated by doing this: STOP RUNNING. Seriously, it works.

A quick breakdown of whats what. I don't think archers will be willing to give up velocity or balanced just for HLD which brings me to a quick fact i learned off UOGuide that does trouble me if this information is updated and correct.
-THERE IS NO HARD CAP ON STACKING HLD. This means- if i imbue 50hld onto a wep and use the ninja skill "focus attack" it will double this so i can hit near 100% of the time for the full 8 seconds.

Please correct me if i'm wrong as i just learned this. Instead of redoing DCI how about a hard cap on HLD at 30% against players? I think this would balance the issue between getting hit and missing.

Your post told me only one thing. You don't pvp... Did you not read the changes there is not HLD proof....

Anone with half a brain has HLD Glasses and doesn't waste that mod on their weapons...

MOVING SHOT - Easy solution... You say don't run???? Okay I'm sorry but when a Fencer/Archer DISARMS you are you going to stand still and get ARMOR IGNORED for 35 Damage + Hit spell coming out at a avg of 46 Dmg per shot.... or will you RUN? Now just think if you're fighting a group of Archers and yes you will be after this publish mark my word.
 
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Kage

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Your post told me only one thing. You don't pvp... Did you not read the changes there is not HLD proof....

Anone with half a brain has HLD Glasses and doesn't waste that mod on their weapons...

MOVING SHOT - Easy solution... You say don't run???? Okay I'm sorry but when a Fencer/Archer DISARMS you are you going to stand still and get ARMOR IGNORED for 35 Damage + Hit spell coming out at a avg of 46 Dmg per shot.... or will you RUN? Now just think if you're fighting a group of Archers and yes you will be after this publish mark my word.
And yes I play a mage but if the current changes go through I will be playing a archer all day.... Moving shots for 20 base damage yummy :)
 

Basara

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Just went to TC and made dragon helmet and it had 4 of each resist except Physical. ????? indeed.
I explained that earlier - the scale amounts are the changes to all the BASE resists of normal dragonscale.

Normal Dragonscale without the colored scale bonuses is 3/3/3/3/3 resist.

All of the ingot changes were made the same way - changes to the bonuses/penalties, not showing the final results of making a non-exceptional piece.

So, the base, non-exceptional, Red dragonscale resists would be 4/14/0/4/4 - AND it can be reforged in the new system. 26 base for normal resists, 46 for exceptional with Arms Lore (everywhere but SP & Mugen, where Arms Lore adds 3 more). With the 20 Exceptional points spread over all 5 resists, that would make an average piece, before imbuing or reforging, as 8/18/4/8/8. Note also, because of the -3 resists the scales applied to the base resist, you should be able to Imbue the cold resist up to 18.
 
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Lythos-

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Your post told me only one thing. You don't pvp... Did you not read the changes there is not HLD proof....

Anone with half a brain has HLD Glasses and doesn't waste that mod on their weapons...

MOVING SHOT - Easy solution... You say don't run???? Okay I'm sorry but when a Fencer/Archer DISARMS you are you going to stand still and get ARMOR IGNORED for 35 Damage + Hit spell coming out at a avg of 46 Dmg per shot.... or will you RUN? Now just think if you're fighting a group of Archers and yes you will be after this publish mark my word.
I pvp almost daily, on a pure and or a dexxer.

I fully read the changes and unlike most, i understand them. Overcapping will not work. Refinements with 90dci when hit with HLD will lower dci to 43 which is about as close to the current 45dci cap as you can ask for.

"Anone with half a brain has HLD Glasses and doesn't waste that mod on their weapons..." You're really showing your lack of mechanic knowledge. Focus attack doubles any hit effects on your wep (hit spell, splinter, hld ect ect). You only get 30 on glasses where if i were to imbue 50 on a wep then i would get 100% HLD when doing focus attack. That means nothing right now since 70dci negates HLD but it will mean i will hit almost every time if one does not do refinements. Like i said, there needs to be a HARD CAP ON HLD. Next?

Moving shot: I thought we were talking about dci and hld? If you're disarmed, it's common knowledge you're going to get hit everytime. HLD, DCI and these revamps have NOTHING to do with being disarmed and hit...
 

Lore Denin (GL)

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I've spent most of my time since last update of Pub 81 Focused on the HLD changes and Mage Armor effects because A) It was working correctly B) I thought Player's Feedback would be the best way to fix the issue.

The current Publish addresses the DCI CAP and HLD in a way that is extemely detrimental to PvP. In the last thread I summerized feedback and put together a fix that would work with publish but not drastically change HLD in pvp (only kept it from being completely nullified)

Summary if you want to avoid reading the details:

Med Armor: doesn't recieve the stamina, LMC, and anti SSI bonus's but get the DCI bonus of refinement without losing max resists (DCI Overcap: 95)

Non-Med Armor: Benefits of stamina protection, LMC and anti SSI but must use refinement at the cost of max resists. (DCI CAP: Base 45 [Refinable to 0-95 over the cap]

The Max DCI that is effective remains 45. Refinement and Med Armor allow you to increase the amount over the cap to reduce the effects of Suprise Attack, Hit Lower Defense (HLD) and other DCI lowering effects.

Here is the link to details:

http://stratics.com/community/threads/uo-com-updated-publish-81-on-tc1.295073/page-13#post-2247515

My Thoughts: This fixes issues with current suits, problems for mages and mage armor and fix the issues the new publish creates in pvp which are legitment and why I spend my time doing this prior to this update.

-Lore's Player
 
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NuSair

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Void Pool has died on most shards and as you can tell the Quests take a long time to do and IMHO are not worth the sffort.

As far as making a Val Plate Suit compaired to a Barbed Leather Suit (both EXP) you only get a total of 6 extra resist points for the whole suit. IMHO it is not worth using a rare resource for such a little gain.

Total resist for an EXP Barbed Leather Suit is 306.
Total resist for an EXP Val Plate Suit is 312.
It really depends on who you are making the suit for.
 

G.v.P

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Currently testing Publish 81.0.0 on Test Center
Color me impressed. The "Armor Material Enhancement Bonus Update" is much more aggressive than my initial thoughts. Every ore type will be quite viable after the changes, wow. I like the Dragon Armor changes too, especially now that Dragon Armor can be re-forged!!!

Misc Changes:
  • Hit lower defense now scales 55% of the players Defense Chance Increase and remains at -25 DCI versus non players. Hit lower defense now ignores over capped DCI.
  • Ninjitsu Surprise Attack and Force Arrow special move now ignores over capped DCI.
  • Dragon Scale armor can now be reforged.
Wow. HLD ignores over capped DCI? That's a huge nerf to DCI stacking, but it will free up the mod use, I suppose, and allow us to use different items, now. Maybe people will even stop wearing robes ;PPP. I think 55% scale w/ hard cap is kind of excessive, but HLD shouldn't be able to be countered as easily as it is.
 
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Shakkara

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I explained that earlier - the scale amounts are the changes to all the BASE resists of normal dragonscale.

Normal Dragonscale without the colored scale bonuses is 3/3/3/3/3 resist.

All of the ingot changes were made the same way - changes to the bonuses/penalties, not showing the final results of making a non-exceptional piece.

So, the base, non-exceptional, Red dragonscale resists would be 4/14/0/4/4 - AND it can be reforged in the new system. 26 base for normal resists, 46 for exceptional with Arms Lore (everywhere but SP & Mugen, where Arms Lore adds 3 more). With the 20 Exceptional points spread over all 5 resists, that would make an average piece, before imbuing or reforging, as 8/18/4/8/8. Note also, because of the -3 resists the scales applied to the base resist, you should be able to Imbue the cold resist up to 18.
You seem to misunderstand my post, like I said, the helm has 4 of all resists and nothing in physical.



So yellow scales give +1 total resistances and 40 luck. Compare to Oak, +11 resists and 40 luck.
 

Petra Fyde

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That's correct - base resists are 3/3/3/3/3. Yellow scales give -3 (minus 3) +1 +1 +1 +1 +1. Which added to base resists = 0/4/4/4/4. The piece is not exceptional, so gets no bonus from that and none from armslore however I have just crafted:

Red scale suit, all except and gm armslore. Added bronze gorget.
Code:
    phys    fire    cold    poison    energy
Neck    11    5    13    8    12
head    7    16    3    11    9
hands    8    19    4    10    5
arms    7    19    6    8    6
body    4    19    6    7    10
legs    9    19    2    7    9
                 
Total    46    97    34    51    51
Not too hard to imbue that to all 70s? and add a few other properties too.
 
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G.v.P

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Uncolored Dragon scale armor, without the colors, is a flat 3/3/3/3/3 [...] They DO, however, need to state if any changes are being made to the luck value of Yellow Scale, and if the Luck would make the Yellow not reforgable.
Seems like a lot of people are confused about Dragon Armor. Basically we're getting +4 to base across the board and now Dragon Armor can be re-forged, which is huge. Here are the new base stats:

Red: 4/14/0/4/4 (26)
Yellow: 0/4/4/4/4 (16), 40 luck (undocumented change)
Black: 14/4/4/0/4 (26)
Green: 4/0/4/4/14 (26)
White: 0/4/14/4/4 (26)
Blue: 4/4/4/14/0 (26)

14+15 (imbue) gives a max of 29 in the specific high resist. That's crazy useful, especially for Red (Sampire).

Here's an example of a Yellow (GM):
4/8/8/9/7 (36), 40 luck

You can't enhance Dragon Armor, but you can re-forge it now. Test just went down so I can't go to the forge to try it out, but when it's back up--or unless someone beats me to it--I'll go see if the 40 luck stacks with re-forging.
 

Petra Fyde

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heheh I was going to try making a mixed suit, one item each scale type excluding yellow - but the shard's down.
I'm a bit pedestrian, I prefer imbuing to reforging. Not so uber, but I know what I'm going to end up with :D
 

G.v.P

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Sexy new status bar (thanks to the person on TC who suggested I try Run As Admin):


Bottom row is HCI, DCI, LMC, SSI, and FCR, then GOLD. Below Base Damage is DI, then to right going down is LRC, LMC, FC, FCR.
 

Tina Small

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Sexy new status bar (thanks to the person on TC who suggested I try Run As Admin)
Glad it worked for you. :) However, our conversation seemed to have crashed the shard. Haha. (It's back, for now.)

Edited to add: I take that back. It LOOKS like it's up again because the shard is on the server list, but I was logged in and frozen and now when I try to get back in, the screen is just stuck on "Entering Britannia." Similar situation to what happened with Yamato last Saturday?
 
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G.v.P

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Uncolored Dragon scale armor, without the colors, is a flat 3/3/3/3/3 [...] They DO, however, need to state if any changes are being made to the luck value of Yellow Scale, and if the Luck would make the Yellow not reforgable.
It's confirmed, you cannot re-forge Yellow Scale due to the luck mod. :(
 

G.v.P

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Glad it worked for you. :) However, our conversation seemed to have crashed the shard. Haha. (It's back, for now.)

Edited to add: I take that back. It LOOKS like it's up again because the shard is on the server list, but I was logged in and frozen and now when I try to get back in, the screen is just stuck on "Entering Britannia." Similar situation to what happened with Yamato last Saturday?
Seems like it went down a second time. I have to go drive to D.C. for tonight's game, but maybe they'll have it fixed--and Yellow Scale working--by tonight ;D. Maybe I'll test at halftime, rofl...
 

RaistlinNowhere

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I've spent most of my time since last update of Pub 81 Focused on the HLD changes and Mage Armor effects because A) It was working correctly B) I thought Player's Feedback would be the best way to fix the issue.

The current Publish addresses the DCI CAP and HLD in a way that is extemely detrimental to PvP. In the last thread I summerized feedback and put together a fix that would work with publish but not drastically change HLD in pvp (only kept it from being completely nullified)

Summary if you want to avoid reading the details:

Med Armor: doesn't recieve the stamina, LMC, and anti SSI bonus's but get the DCI bonus of refinement without losing max resists (DCI Overcap: 95)

Non-Med Armor: Benefits of stamina protection, LMC and anti SSI but must use refinement at the cost of max resists. (DCI CAP: Base 45 [Refinable to 0-95 over the cap]

The Max DCI that is effective remains 45. Refinement and Med Armor allow you to increase the amount over the cap to reduce the effects of Suprise Attack, Hit Lower Defense (HLD) and other DCI lowering effects.

Here is the link to details:

http://stratics.com/community/threads/uo-com-updated-publish-81-on-tc1.295073/page-13#post-2247515

My Thoughts: This fixes issues with current suits, problems for mages and mage armor and fix the issues the new publish creates in pvp which are legitment and why I spend my time doing this prior to this update.

-Lore's Player


Ummm i think the anti SSI was removed
 

HP_Zoro_HP

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ok this is in reply to Petra and a few others...

Yes you can be fizzled even when in proteciton. I don't know which it is exactly but it IS an archer special.

Tested at 70 DCI on test center I was hit with hit lower defense my DCI went down to 21... I took off 10 DCI and my DCI remaind 21... I took off ANOTHER 15 DCI and my DCI dropped down to 6.... I don't think it's right that we be basically forcd into working with these refinements and basically re adjust our suits to try and get 90 DCI at the cost of other stats. Not everybody is on board with this change so I don't think it's right to force it upon those of us that are not. Refinements to increase DCI should have a benefit other then "Ok I have to use refinement or the current suit I have is going to suck". Refinement should have a benefit and if we don't choose to use it then our current suits should still be viable. As is now unless we mages have 80 dex and 120 parrying WITH 120 combat skill you WILL be hit 90-95% of the time. I for one cannot speak for those without the dex, parrying, or combat skill because this was tested with ALL THREE of those. I was hit pretty often and that was with all THREE of those. So imagine what it would be like for your average mage that doesn't run around with parrying or dex (the combat skill on a mage, well all it takes is for a dexer to disarm that mage weapon and that mage is going to drop like a fly on a windshield).
 

HP_Zoro_HP

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Any self respecting PvP Mage that goes toe to toe with a Dexter should win hands down. Once a Mage drops into protection and then casts curse on the Dexter, its toast for the dexter, and if you are playing a parry mage with wrestle then you can even win without taking any damage.

And you know it!
You know lol.... I cant believe people don't get this.


A mage should NOT be forced to using "PARRYING" or "WRESTLING" just to beat a dexer! That is exactly what you are implying by your statement there and it isn't how things should be. A mage should have hope in killing a dexer even without those!
 

Basara

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That's correct - base resists are 3/3/3/3/3. Yellow scales give -3 (minus 3) +1 +1 +1 +1 +1. Which added to base resists = 0/4/4/4/4. The piece is not exceptional, so gets no bonus from that and none from armslore however I have just crafted:

Red scale suit, all except and gm armslore. Added bronze gorget.
Code:
    phys    fire    cold    poison    energy
Neck    11    5    13    8    12
head    7    16    3    11    9
hands    8    19    4    10    5
arms    7    19    6    8    6
body    4    19    6    7    10
legs    9    19    2    7    9
           
Total    46    97    34    51    51
Not too hard to imbue that to all 70s? and add a few other properties too.

Let's see, what can be done with those pieces.
Legs: 0 for imbuing is 3. That means cold resist can be taken to 18 (3+15), or a 16 net increase.
Helm: can have cold raised 15.
Imbuing Gloves and arms to 18 Energy raises it to 76
Imbuing Tunic and legs to 18 poison would raise it to 70.
Imbue tunic to 18 physical; increases it 14

7 imbues, suit now is 60/97/65/72/76
2 more imbues on the Bronze gorget can probably get the physical and cold up to 70 each.

that's 9 total imbues (2 gorget, 2 tunic, 2 legs, 1 arms, 1 gloves, 1 helm), leaving 21 more possible on the items.

With a reasonable supply of parts, you might be able to work the resists around to where you can move a few of the fire and energy points over to cold, to get it down to 8 Imbues.
 
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HP_Zoro_HP

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With a set 55% drop in DCI, why not continue to allow overcapping? Hell, someone with 70% DCI then would drop to 32% and still be gravely effected by HLD.

Id advocate for changing it to halving DCI by 50% instead of 55% (easier calculation in your head, easier to explain to non-power gamer players "hld cuts your defence chance in half") and allow overcapping if you want. You would have to get to 90DCI before you would completely overcap dci, and if you wanted to do that, more power to you, your suit would be dedicated to resisting hit lower defense then.

rofl nope, not exactly... I have tested it at 70 DCI and it dropped me down to 21%. I took off a slither which is 10% and it remaind 21%... I THEN took off a shield that had 15% and it dropped down to 6% DCI.... (laugh).
 

Petra Fyde

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is that 70 DCI over capped or 70 DCI cap raised?
because if it was 70 with a 45 cap - then only the 45 to cap counts. That's if I'm understanding right.
If you want 70 dci you're going to have to raise your cap to 70 as well as having 70 on your suit.
(Have I got that right? )
 

HP_Zoro_HP

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I pvp almost daily, on a pure and or a dexxer.

I fully read the changes and unlike most, i understand them. Overcapping will not work. Refinements with 90dci when hit with HLD will lower dci to 43 which is about as close to the current 45dci cap as you can ask for.

"Anone with half a brain has HLD Glasses and doesn't waste that mod on their weapons..." You're really showing your lack of mechanic knowledge. Focus attack doubles any hit effects on your wep (hit spell, splinter, hld ect ect). You only get 30 on glasses where if i were to imbue 50 on a wep then i would get 100% HLD when doing focus attack. That means nothing right now since 70dci negates HLD but it will mean i will hit almost every time if one does not do refinements. Like i said, there needs to be a HARD CAP ON HLD. Next?

Moving shot: I thought we were talking about dci and hld? If you're disarmed, it's common knowledge you're going to get hit everytime. HLD, DCI and these revamps have NOTHING to do with being disarmed and hit...

Makes sense, however... Every mage should NOT have to change all of their suits just because of this Refinement that not everyone is even on board for! There should be a way so that the suits we currently have can still be used and mages not being forced to revmaping their suits just to reach 90 DCI only to lose what was it, RESIST so they suck vs other casters?
 

Petra Fyde

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Let's see, what can be done with those pieces.
Legs: 0 for imbuing is 3. That means cold resist can be taken to 18 (3+15), or a 16 net increase.
Helm: can have cold raised 15.
Imbuing Gloves and arms to 18 Energy raises it to 76
Imbuing Tunic and legs to 18 poison would raise it to 70.
Imbue tunic to 18 physical; increases it 14

7 imbues, suit now is 60/97/65/72/76
2 more imbues on the Bronze gorget can probably get the physical and cold up to 70 each.

that's 9 total imbues (2 gorget, 2 tunic, 2 legs, 1 arms, 1 gloves, 1 helm), leaving 21 more possible on the items.

With a reasonable supply of parts, you might be able to work the resists around to where you can move a few of the fire and energy points over to cold, to get it down to 8 Imbues.
Thinking about it, since there's no longer a bonus for having a matching suit, I think you'd probably do best by having one piece from each red, blue, green, white, black - then dye the lot to make it match. Not sure which metal you would use for the gorget in that case. Might depend on what the resists looked like on the other pieces. You can never quite tell where the except and armslore bonuses are going to fall.
Not tested it, lost the test shard.
 

HP_Zoro_HP

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is that 70 DCI over capped or 70 DCI cap raised?
because if it was 70 with a 45 cap - then only the 45 to cap counts. That's if I'm understanding right.
If you want 70 dci you're going to have to raise your cap to 70 as well as having 70 on your suit.
(Have I got that right? )
I don't know what the heck that means! LOL

I know I had 70 DCI on my suit, that is all. Overcapped or undercpaped (whatever that means) I had 70 straight across, no more then that. Raising my cap to 70 even though I have 70 on my suit already... Ok that makes sense? o_O
 

Winker

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You know lol.... I cant believe people don't get this.


A mage should NOT be forced to using "PARRYING" or "WRESTLING" just to beat a dexer! That is exactly what you are implying by your statement there and it isn't how things should be. A mage should have hope in killing a dexer even without those!
Dude i dont imply anything. If i have some thing to say, I will say it sraight out. A Mage can destroy a dexter without Parry or Wrestle Peroid. A good Parry/Wrestle Mage will destroy 3-4 dexters or even more given the correct situation.
 

chise2

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Current: You can make yourself HLD proof, through overcapping DCI on your suit. HLD subtratcts 25 DCI. The DCI Cap is 45, so if you have 70 DCI (45+25) on your suit, you will remain at 45 DCI under the effects of HLD. When not under HLD, you are still at 45 DCI, since that is the cap. HLD can be completely negated.

The bold part means it is no longer possible to over-cap you DCI to avoid HLD.

Publish 81: HLD reduces the targets DCI by 55% (DCI under HLD = 0.45*Target's Original DCI). At 45 DCI, if struck by HLD you would be at 20.25 DCI (=0.45*45). If you try to over-cap it (currently allowed) by adding 20 more DCI to your suit, that extra DCI will be ignored. The system will still treat you as having 45 DCI. It is not possible to over-cap DCI to avoid HLD, and HLD proof your suit. The only way to increase your DCI is to use the DCI Armor Refinements.

This is a great change. There are several benefits to this change:
  1. HLD cannot be negated.
  2. DCI Armor Refinement effectiveness is no longer overshadowed by DCI Overcapping (it was actually detrimental to use them versus just overcapping DCI), their full potentail can be utilized.
  3. Free up room on your suit (only need to get to DCI Cap, not beyond).
Let me know if you have more questions. I hope this helps.


Stayin Alive,

BG
Yeah I agree it is a great change. My only issue is I think you still can;t refine leather/cloth/mage armor. All of these especially with the HLD changes should be able to be refined. So mages for instance have a way of raising their dci cap and lessening the effects of HLD. They do that and I think this particular issue is solved.
 

chise2

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honestly, im getting really frustrated with all this. There are so many parts of this publish i'm looking forward to, but for ***** sake. two more weeks go by and instead of adjusting/tweaking a few things for players to accept the refinements, fix stam leeching, and say ok! now its time to get this rolling... they add +4 to every resist type, confuse me with hld, make me feel like i'd need to update all my suits for more resist and taking out dci, and now we get to sit here and debate for another who knows how long.

- the weapon/special updates are fine across the board.
- the previous armor updates (stam reduction/lmc) were fine across the board
- the hld needed some tweaking, but ur update is a little confusing, hits mages in the nuts too much, and hurts current suits.
- refinements were ok, they just needed some tweaking with their ease of use, which you did with this update i guess
- the new added resists makes all previous suits fairly obsolete, the same as the dci/hld change. don't do this to people.

but rather than address the obvious complaints, all veyr small and adjustable pieces i would think, you just toss out adding armor resist. After two weeks, what did you do? did you write Fire Phys Cold Energy Poison on a dart board, yell out VERITE and throw 4 darts? did this process take two weeks?

I've been a giant advocate of this publish, more than most, and i'm just getting sick of this. Between the unplayable lag, and wanting to roll out new suits/characters but this publish holding it up...UGGHHH. Why would i make a new suit and imbue all the weapons when this publish is on the horizon?

I'm done testing this stuff.. im done working on any of it. get this ****** thing on the move, its been what, 2 months of debating, whining, crying, testing, suggesting? VERY minor stuff needs removed and adjsuted in this. FIX THEM AND MOVE IT TO ORIGIN! i think this +4 resist crap should come out, anyone who cares about their suits will have to redo them, and that was one of the biggest goals from the beginning, no one wants to redo suits to stay on top of things, it was just giving other armor a use WHICH THE STAM REDUCTION AND LMC DID.

Scrap the dci/HLD changes and refinements for now, lets debate this at a later time. i think you shouldn't be able to overcap dci, but i dont think you should make it so dci isn't effective over 45% either. now anyone who has say 65% dci in their suit, 20% is useless. this is bad. just take this out and we'll debate it some other day in the future.

I mean god, maybe make it so the most you can overcap dci to after HLD is 40% or something, so it still drops from 45% but isn't so drastic.
I think they should have clarified the dci changes a bit lol. Personally I am a fan of them. My only major issue is like you said they are a blow to mages. If they are going to insist on putting this and refinements in this publish they need to let leather/cloth/magearmor be refinable too. I do think that the 55% is too high as well and needs to be toned down. As for resists I am personally glad they updated resists so far at least but need to test more. It does look at least like maybe something other then verite/valorite and well I guess gold for luck will be viable. I would like to know though if these changes will effect our current armor would be nice if they did. Of course with the HLD/DCI changes many will be changing their suits anyway. But at least let the resists update on our armor! Guess we will see..

I understand about wanting them to get a move on with it. But personally I rather them take their time. Though I do agree that refinements really needed to be left for another patch. But if they are going to have it this one then especially because of these new hld/dci changes they need to let cloth/leather/mage armor be refineable too.
 

HP_Zoro_HP

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Dude i dont imply anything. If i have some thing to say, I will say it sraight out. A Mage can destroy a dexter without Parry or Wrestle Peroid. A good Parry/Wrestle Mage will destroy 3-4 dexters or even more given the correct situation.
pre pub 81 maybe but go on test center and check it out first please because that's where I am getting my logic from. Without parry, dex, and if you are relying on a mage weapon and you get disarmed by a fencer/archer then you are screwed. You don't move to avoid the moving shot so you stand still and just get pummeled for how long? At the length of time it takes for you to get a greater heal off you'll just keep getting fizzled. You wont be able to mini heal through the dmg cause the archer is decimating you hitting you 90% or more of the time... Seriously?
 
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chise2

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Color me impressed. The "Armor Material Enhancement Bonus Update" is much more aggressive than my initial thoughts. Every ore type will be quite viable after the changes, wow. I like the Dragon Armor changes too, especially now that Dragon Armor can be re-forged!!!


Wow. HLD ignores over capped DCI? That's a huge nerf to DCI stacking, but it will free up the mod use, I suppose, and allow us to use different items, now. Maybe people will even stop wearing robes ;PPP. I think 55% scale w/ hard cap is kind of excessive, but HLD shouldn't be able to be countered as easily as it is.

Yeah the more I think about it the more I think 55% is way overboard. I am very happy they are getting rid of dci overcapping but someone with 45 dci cap would go down to around 20 dci. This seems rather harsh not to mention while it is true that those that can wear nonmed armor types will have the option of raising their dci cap what about the mages?
 

chise2

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Yeah I can see moving shot becoming a problem this next publish against mages with the dci changes. They did at least raise its mana cost maybe a damage reduction should be done as well.
 

HP_Zoro_HP

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Yeah I can see moving shot becoming a problem this next publish against mages with the dci changes. They did at least raise its mana cost maybe a damage reduction should be done as well.
Moving shot? Hell infectious strike will be a problem since DCI will be **** on mages.
 

Multi Dwagon

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Hey, I got a question about the armor refinements and sorry if someone answered that already.

How exactly will that work? The new comment on www.uo.com doesnt make much sense...Plus will you be able to add it on existing parts or will you craft them like reforging, a mixture of both?

And what will happen with the armor parts pre p81?

Jeez im confused.
 
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Cetric

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Yeah I can see moving shot becoming a problem this next publish against mages with the dci changes. They did at least raise its mana cost maybe a damage reduction should be done as well.
Moving shot wouldnt be the problem that it could be if they would address disarm properly, and possibly rethink their hld change. making another change to something (moving shot in this case) because of other changes, feels a lot like the dev team chasing their tails. The only reason a lot of ranged combat is desired over melee is because of the ability to chase someone that cowardly ran away effectively. I think the mana change to it is a decent enough change to it for now.

Devs chasing their tails - ie:

changed this, oh damn now we should change this. oh since you changed that we should update this. ok sicne you did this, now boost that. oh since you boosted that we better nerf this..
 
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