Is it me or did the new dupe...

[RavenWinterHawk]

Is it me or did the new dupe, just destroy all the positive flow UO had going.

We once had trillions removed, houses burned, OSI demolitions coming with removal of all items, a nice event.


Now I see vendors popping up with all new item (EVENT STUFF). People are selling gold for YES AS LOW as .40 per million.


This isnt about a player base shrinking or the idea people are just leaving the game and selling gold.

Heck, look at the posts on stratics. The only active MMO board is ours. NOT sure where the other games player bases are.

Now, I play a mechant...
How do I know a dupe is around? Because crap is flying off my vendors like water. Yep, I a making gold. I am putting up silly items for silly prices. No event rares. And they sell.

Plus enough pieces of the dupe have been talked about to bring legitamcy to it.

EA/Jeremy please give the player base information on what is being done.


They game was shaping up nicely...
Now it like nothing has changed...

I cant event leave a shard to shrink an account.

 

[Infiniti]

I must be naive because I have no idea how you figure out when a dupe is going on. I have a vendor also and the stuff I sell is not selling any faster/slower than usual. I also have no idea what is being duped so am scared to buy anything in game.

 

[JC the Builder]

I must be naive because I have no idea how you figure out when a dupe is going on.

Valorite Hammer prices were cut in half in about a week or two. On top of that some vendors were selling 10 at a time. That is a pretty good indication that a lot of duping was going on. This is also pretty bad news considering the changes they made to said hammers a couple publishes ago. They make near perfect armor and are now flooding the market with better than artifact quality equipment. This could have completely messed up any upcoming changes to the crafting system which may have been able to make items like these.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

I must be naive because I have no idea how you figure out when a dupe is going on. I have a vendor also and the stuff I sell is not selling any faster/slower than usual. I also have no idea what is being duped so am scared to buy anything in game.

Your not naive by any stretch.
#1 Event items are popping up all over again.
#2 Barbed kits, Valorite Hammers, Heartwood kits are popping up in quantities.
#3 Gold is being sold as low as .40 per million.
#4 True a keg of Invis potions will sit. But a weapon, piece of armour, new items like trade-ins, are starting to sell fast.
#5 You see xshard tokens go from 9 million to 14 million.
#6 Did I mention Huge quantities of gold be sold.

It doesnt matter to the duper if they sell 1 million for 20 bucks or 100 million for 20 bucks. Their goal is to make money. The more you dupe. The easier it is to get 20 bucks.

If EA allows people to create things endlessly, there wont ever be a balance.

So my point.
Duping starts out as a secret. Then all these clues pop up and before you know it...

You sort of know it.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Valorite Hammer prices were cut in half in about a week or two. On top of that some vendors were selling 10 at a time. That is a pretty good indication that a lot of duping was going on. This is also pretty bad news considering the changes they made to said hammers a couple publishes ago. They make near perfect armor and are now flooding the market with better than artifact quality equipment. This could have completely messed up any upcoming changes to the crafting system which may have been able to make items like these.

Exactly,
They create a nice bone with the runic. Now duping has destroyed it.

I bet I can get the guy on atlantic down from 22 million on the valorite hammer to 15 million. And in quantity.

Then again I use a weapon I made from a bronze runic hammer for PvM. I dont need anything else. And my suits already 70's with lots of MR and defense chance.

And since we can use leather and dont need metal, why not just buy the barbed kits for 1.5 to 1.9 million.

BLAH.

 

[Galad]

I wouldn't call it a new dupe.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

I wouldn't call it a new dupe.

The most newest in duping. Not in longevity then.

 

[Infiniti]

Your not naive by any stretch.
#1 Event items are popping up all over again.
#2 Barbed kits, Valorite Hammers, Heartwood kits are popping up in quantities.
#3 Gold is being sold as low as .40 per million.
#4 True a keg of Invis potions will sit. But a weapon, piece of armour, new items like trade-ins, are starting to sell fast.
#5 You see xshard tokens go from 9 million to 14 million.
#6 Did I mention Huge quantities of gold be sold.

It doesnt matter to the duper if they sell 1 million for 20 bucks or 100 million for 20 bucks. Their goal is to make money. The more you dupe. The easier it is to get 20 bucks.

If EA allows people to create things endlessly, there wont ever be a balance.

So my point.
Duping starts out as a secret. Then all these clues pop up and before you know it...

You sort of know it.

Thank you for your answer. I wish that people would stop duping. I see no need to dupe anything at all. I've been playing UO for a number of years and never had the need so why do they? Most of my armor/weps that I use are made by my own (mule) char. I may not have billions in gold but I am doing ok there also, so why the need to dupe? When I want something I save for it and the satisfaction I get when I finally can buy it is more than enough reward for me.

 

[Doomsday Dragon]

Valorite Hammer prices were cut in half in about a week or two. On top of that some vendors were selling 10 at a time. That is a pretty good indication that a lot of duping was going on. This is also pretty bad news considering the changes they made to said hammers a couple publishes ago. They make near perfect armor and are now flooding the market with better than artifact quality equipment. This could have completely messed up any upcoming changes to the crafting system which may have been able to make items like these.

Your not kidding. I see a vendor with plenty of valorite hammers on it priced at 25m and verites for 15m.

I see another guy selling barbed runics in packs of 10 for 19m.

But as far as a dupe goes the only major items I see being duped are runics.

Leads me to suspect there is a way to abuse the BOD system and collect mass rewards actually. Speculation of course but it seems like the most logical explanation being that the only thing I see in mass quantity is BOD rewards.

 

[Suzzy]

As long as people continue to buy stuff for real money, whether it be gold, items, or rares, people will try to dupe. That's why I find it hilarious that you can't advertise the sale of goods for real money in the game, but you can do it here. As long as this continues and there's a market for it, duping, exploiting or whatever will continue to occur because people want to make a buck.

If everyone stopped buying stuff for real money there's no incentive to do it(dupe, exploit), but that will never happen.

 

[Trebr Drab]

I agree with the tone of the boards changing due to this. UO seemed to be on the cusp of a major come back. Old players were returning and posting questions, the events were the main topic outside of the normal bug/system complaints, and things looked good.

Then this.

I want to point out too, that AoS brought us these items that have brought us this major problem. Do we really need power expansions? Why wouldn't sideways moves work just as good? New abilities and items, new rares, mage familiars, new item slots and wearing weapons, jumping and swimming, a new underwater realm....why do we have to constantly add more and more power that causes more and more problems?

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

As long as people continue to buy stuff for real money, whether it be gold, items, or rares, people will try to dupe. That's why I find it hilarious that you can't advertise the sale of goods for real money in the game, but you can do it here. As long as this continues and there's a market for it, duping, exploiting or whatever will continue to occur because people want to make a buck.

If everyone stopped buying stuff for real money there's no incentive to do it(dupe, exploit), but that will never happen.

It wont happen because people have more money then time. If a player makes a good living and love the game but has no time.... Well buy stuff for real money and enjoy the game.

Different for everyone. Thats why I laugh when people say ban the sale of items.

OKAY as OF TODAY selling any item for REAL LIFE CASH is illegal.

See. Nothing changed.

Search on line and you will find places to buy items and gold from every MMO.

Do you really think EA is going to spend resources to run sting operations for players selling gold. Never.

Its like this. Scripting is illegal. So....

What has that stopped.

BUT YOUR RIGHT everyone would have to stop buying stuff. And that just wont happen. Its worth $50 bucks to a lot of players to buy what they need monthly.

Maybe they have 1 account and spend $50 bucks. While other have 4 accounts but never buy stuff. Its all up to the player and their RL budget.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

It wont happen because people have more money then time. If a player makes a good living and love the game but has no time.... Well buy stuff for real money and enjoy the game.

Different for everyone. Thats why I laugh when people say ban the sale of items.

OKAY as OF TODAY selling any item for REAL LIFE CASH is illegal.

See. Nothing changed.

Search on line and you will find places to buy items and gold from every MMO.

Do you really think EA is going to spend resources to run sting operations for players selling gold. Never.

Its like this. Scripting is illegal. So....

What has that stopped.

BUT YOUR RIGHT everyone would have to stop buying stuff. And that just wont happen. Its worth $50 bucks to a lot of players to buy what they need monthly.

Maybe they have 1 account and spend $50 bucks. While other have 4 accounts but never buy stuff. Its all up to the player and their RL budget.

EA could eliminate checks in UO.



The gold would still be there but it would be really, really hard to buy and sell.

I've always liked trading.

 

[Crystilastamous]

Dupers don't dupe gold, they dupe items worth lot's of gold.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Dupers don't dupe gold, they dupe items worth lot's of gold.

Nah they dupe gold too. 1 mill will be 1 mill and easily sold.
The dupe items usually decline in value and become harder to sell.

Now of course making 500 valorite hammers while your at is nice too.

Besides you cant say 100 million gold for .40 per mill with a duped item.

The check is the RL cash.

 

[Ender]

Dupers don't dupe gold, they dupe items worth lot's of gold.

They dupe both. They dupe large quantities of checks, not gold, but still the same thing really.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I don't think the new dupe destroyed all of the positive flow.

However, dupers and those of their ilk are, in general, a worthless lot who seem to thrive on screwing things up for the rest of us.

I actually wasn't aware there was a new dupe until this morning, reading threads about it....Was it perchance related to the new bugged Stranger in Heartwood?

No I am not asking how to do the dupe. I'm asking if this "new dupe" was somehow related to that event.

-Galen's player

 

[Pickaxe Pete]

I'm asking if this "new dupe" was somehow related to that event.

Nope.

Reasoning: I've been reading warning threads about this for many months now.

Secondly, I've observed said valorite runic sales patterns for weeks prior to the event in question.

Thirdly, gold prices dropped sharply weeks prior to said event.

Theories: I still think it is possible that we are just now seeing two-year-old stockpiles from the recent old account activations or idocs. These accumulations resulting from the 2006 duping boom. Perhaps that in conjunction with a new exploit(s). I think even just one major duper's account being reactivated could have caused this latest issue, with how small the playerbase is now.

Finally, I think the reactionary shutting down of the transfer process is simply to isolate the problem to certain shards to a great extent. Thus the cleanup operation will be somewhat simpler.

 

[XaeviusMenate]

It's easy to tell there's a dupe going on, just from the sales prices of these 'hard to get items'.

Some certain people on Catskills are selling Ornies for 8M a pop. They sell for 14-16m normally, depending on buyer.

Sounds like at least a few people have hot potatoes they're trying to get rid of, before they get burned.

I, too, agree the dupes should be stopped.

A good deterrent would be catching the dupers, and causing their banks/characters/houses to explode and dump all of their items on the ground...after, of course, the duped ones were deleted.

 

[Doomsday Dragon]

As long as people continue to buy stuff for real money, whether it be gold, items, or rares, people will try to dupe. That's why I find it hilarious that you can't advertise the sale of goods for real money in the game, but you can do it here. As long as this continues and there's a market for it, duping, exploiting or whatever will continue to occur because people want to make a buck.

If everyone stopped buying stuff for real money there's no incentive to do it(dupe, exploit), but that will never happen.

This is completely wrong well mostly anyhow. You think just because real cash is involved that it is the only reason anyone would do this. I remember a time when people did it just to get rich in the game before people started selling this stuff for real cash.

The problem doesn't go away until there is a way to completely prevent it from happening.

 

[o2bavr6]

I don't want to advocate duping, but someone explain to me how it truly hurts the game?

Other than someone making IRL money how does it affect your day to day playing?

Doesn't everyone in the game have the ability to buy these items at a lower cost than if there was no duping?

What if you only have an hour or two per day to play, did you want to spend your two hours mining or lumberjacking instead of maybe PvPing or PvMing?

Does having the ability to buy 100 Mill in Gold check affect someone elses ability to play, if it does they can buy 100 Mill themselves, right?

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

I don't want to advocate duping, but someone explain to me how it truly hurts the game?

Other than someone making IRL money how does it affect your day to day playing?

Doesn't everyone in the game have the ability to buy these items at a lower cost than if there was no duping?

What if you only have an hour or two per day to play, did you want to spend your two hours mining or lumberjacking instead of maybe PvPing or PvMing?

Does having the ability to buy 100 Mill in Gold check affect someone elses ability to play, if it does they can buy 100 Mill themselves, right?

Well,
It effects me in that I know people are creating items and selling them as if they were valuable.

For instance, would you spend 50 million on a stack of wool. Of course not. Why would you spend 50 million on shackles if someone was able to dupe 100's of them.

I dont want to be cheated out of my money. Now in saying that, I dont by event items.

So...
Do I get cheated. Not really, it just ruins an aspect of the game. Lets say I want a LUNA house. Well there is one for 150 million. If I get 150 million maybe I buy it. BUT JOE comes and dupes 500 million and buys the house.

Do I make out. Maybe in a strange way. I play a merchant. So when new events start, I collect and resell. The duper with gold comes and buys my stuff. I slowly increase prices and notice things are flying off. Well now IM getting millions for items... so in a way I get gold.

The true loss is immediately when a dupe is created and a few people cheat away. Eventually the economy adjusts.

As for people buying gold. I think its fine. I have sold some in the past. I just think it should be by people that earned it, not duped it.

As for enjoying the stranger event arc or going to Japanese shard for the AOS dyed stuff. It doesnt effect me.

 

[o2bavr6]

For instance, would you spend 50 million on a stack of wool. Of course not. Why would you spend 50 million on shackles if someone was able to dupe 100's of them.

When there is no duping prices are high, think of how much Orni's cost at first, like 50 mill each. When duping started prices dropped to the mid twenties.

And the reason you buy something is because your character may need it, the fact that the item may be duped shouldnt matter.

Lets say I want a LUNA house. Well there is one for 150 million. If I get 150 million maybe I buy it. BUT JOE comes and dupes 500 million and buys the house.

Do you really think the duper cares about the Luna house? The duper is a wholesaler not a retailer.

Also if there was no duping that Luna house wouldnt cost 150 Mill, it would be 15 Mill. But since there is no duping, scripting or macroing, making 15 Mill would be just as unobtainable as 150 Mill.

 

[Masuo Kenji]

Heck, look at the posts on stratics. The only active MMO board is ours. NOT sure where the other games player bases are.

They're all in their own respective game forums. Most games have their own official forums that they host themselves. UO is one of the few games with their official forums hosted by a third party.

 

[FenrirsFangs]

Just out of frustration I almost wish they would remove all the gold from the game in some sort of cataclysm and make everyone start over. of course that would REALLY **** off the people that actually earned it.

I seriously dislike the in-game economy, it's ridiculous.

and hey, soldier boy! military training is no excuse for poor manners, you looked like you were fishing for a fight outta boredom. I got a K-pot too.

In addition, before you go picking my unintelligent and ignorant response apart to further exaserbate the situation, don't bother. I'm not saying anything else on the topic beyond, Civil behavior and military service are not mutually exclusive. (ever heard the term an officer and a gentleman?)

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

When there is no duping prices are high, think of how much Orni's cost at first, like 50 mill each. When duping started prices dropped to the mid twenties.

And the reason you buy something is because your character may need it, the fact that the item may be duped shouldnt matter.




Do you really think the duper cares about the Luna house? The duper is a wholesaler not a retailer.

Also if there was no duping that Luna house wouldnt cost 150 Mill, it would be 15 Mill. But since there is no duping, scripting or macroing, making 15 Mill would be just as unobtainable as 150 Mill.

End

I dont completely disagree with you but the problem is...

If I am saving up to buy the luna house at 15 million or 150 million...

And Joe Duper comes along and dupes 150 million and buys it that day. He now owns the house I was saving for.

Joe Duper dupes another 800 million and goes to Luna and says Ill buy your house for 500 million. Well the owner is like wow it would take me months, years to earn that. Ill sell it and just buy another.

The 500 million is 5x as much as the house is worth (AT THE TIME). When a dupe is new this is what happens. Players that cheat throw silly money to buy up things that can easily be had. Eventually the price adjusts and that guy that go the 500 million has to pay 500 million or more for a Luna house. Joe Duper got it for no time put in the game.

H

 

[AZ-]

Duping completed bods to turn them in gives a runic with a new ID. Main problem with duping is changing the item ID's, but duping filled val hammer BODs fixes that problem. That's why you see mainly bod rewards being duped.

 

[love2winalot]

I thought i was on the Stratics UO site, but somehow ended up on the armed forces site............

Now back to the post. For the average player, or maybe below avg. I don't care. I don't buy runic's, or other high end stuff anyway. All armor/weapons are as loot. I don't care if a Luna house is worth 15 million, or 500 million. My Red/account i never play anymore because of speed hacks/scripts, and such.

There is an old saying in a lot of places that reads, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anybody". Maybe EA should add this to its TOS, and then simply start banning accounts under that policy.

This is kind of like the police walking by all the drug dealers and such on your street corner. You run out and ask, "Why don't you do something about them"? And they reply, "We can't because of the 100 drug dealers here, 1 of them is innocent, and we dont want to arrest an innocent person, so we are not going to arrest anybody at all".

 

[Orvago]

Okays, let's get back to topic. Any thing further of a personal nature, please take it to Private Messages everyone, for any more OT personal stuffs like this will be removed.

Thanks, carry on!

 

[Demonous]

i dont understand why the original owners of true rares/event items allowed their items to be duped...

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

As long as people continue to buy stuff for real money, whether it be gold, items, or rares, people will try to dupe.
....
As long as this continues and there's a market for it, duping, exploiting or whatever will continue to occur because people want to make a buck.

If everyone stopped buying stuff for real money there's no incentive to do it(dupe, exploit), but that will never happen.

This is completely wrong well mostly anyhow. You think just because real cash is involved that it is the only reason anyone would do this. I remember a time when people did it just to get rich in the game before people started selling this stuff for real cash.

The problem doesn't go away until there is a way to completely prevent it from happening.

Actually, in my opinion, Suzzy is more right than wrong. The key to her statement is "As long as there is a Market" .... and "If everyone stopped buying stuff for real money"

In one sense, one could use the example of "Drugs", in a modern society. Mostly it exists because it is mostly perceived as a "Victimless Crime" as in no one is really hurt. I do not agree with this perception, but so far Reality has not required my agreement with it.

In many ways players do not see the harm in Purchasing Coin of the Realm / Items, with Real Life Currency.

This will tend to set up two distinct camps, the camp that does not perceive it is purchasing its way to being UBER versus the camp that believes one must Do the Deed to become UBER. These two camps are not going to have anything in common except the desire to be UBER, that is the Goal, the Path to that Goal will not be the same. It wont be the same because the perceived relevance of the Journey is ... well the difference between Night and Day.

As to the ability for any Game owner to "Do something about it" ... Some one once said (me paraphrasing) "There are 600 Million people on the internet that apparently have absolutely nothing else to do with their lives, than to figure out a way to defeat what ever security you try to build".


Suzzy is more right than wrong, WE the players need to end the Market. Problem is the size of the two camps are not even close to being equal. Guess which one your in.

 

[King Frankie]

The complaints wont do much since they dont care anymore. 10 years of uo has made me realize that. There is still many cheats going aorund that they could have solved easy but no they didnt, is it their economy as company or for personal gain none will ever know. Solving the cheat factor would cost them more then sticking to the ignorant behaviour they have had so far. Sure burn a few houses down... cool but hey there thousands more.

 

[Magdalene]

OK. There will be no more flaming, personal attacks, personal stuff of any other kind or language more suitable for army barracks than for a family oriented forum for a teen rated game.

RL issues should be discussed in PM or on Off Topic forums. Thank you.

 

[ShaunOfPac]

lol

 

[Doomsday Dragon]

Actually, in my opinion, Suzzy is more right than wrong. The key to her statement is "As long as there is a Market" .... and "If everyone stopped buying stuff for real money"

In one sense, one could use the example of "Drugs", in a modern society. Mostly it exists because it is mostly perceived as a "Victimless Crime" as in no one is really hurt. I do not agree with this perception, but so far Reality has not required my agreement with it.

In many ways players do not see the harm in Purchasing Coin of the Realm / Items, with Real Life Currency.

This will tend to set up two distinct camps, the camp that does not perceive it is purchasing its way to being UBER versus the camp that believes one must Do the Deed to become UBER. These two camps are not going to have anything in common except the desire to be UBER, that is the Goal, the Path to that Goal will not be the same. It wont be the same because the perceived relevance of the Journey is ... well the difference between Night and Day.

As to the ability for any Game owner to "Do something about it" ... Some one once said (me paraphrasing) "There are 600 Million people on the internet that apparently have absolutely nothing else to do with their lives, than to figure out a way to defeat what ever security you try to build".


Suzzy is more right than wrong, WE the players need to end the Market. Problem is the size of the two camps are not even close to being equal. Guess which one your in.

Don't get me wrong people really should stop buying with cash because it only helps support the problem but that is not the only reason people hack accounts and dupe items. Part of it happens because of greed and nothing more. Pure greed to have the stuff without doing the work to obtain it like everyone else.

 

[Joyous2K]

It wont happen because people have more money then time. If a player makes a good living and love the game but has no time.... Well buy stuff for real money and enjoy the game.

Different for everyone. Thats why I laugh when people say ban the sale of items.

OKAY as OF TODAY selling any item for REAL LIFE CASH is illegal.

See. Nothing changed.

Search on line and you will find places to buy items and gold from every MMO.

Do you really think EA is going to spend resources to run sting operations for players selling gold. Never.

Its like this. Scripting is illegal. So....

What has that stopped.

BUT YOUR RIGHT everyone would have to stop buying stuff. And that just wont happen. Its worth $50 bucks to a lot of players to buy what they need monthly.

Maybe they have 1 account and spend $50 bucks. While other have 4 accounts but never buy stuff. Its all up to the player and their RL budget.

Well if people are going to buy this gunk regardless, why wouldn't they want it cheaper?

Like maybe you make and sell gold and can make profit at .85 per mil.

Some other guy can make and sell gold and can make profit at .45 per mil.

If the public is going to buy the stuff regardless, why wouldn't they want to buy the same exact thing for 40 cents less?

What mucks everything up is when these forums are used as a bully pulpit to maintain income generated from playing UO. Sure you need to make your money, but I don't have to care about it. I am in favor of UO making these items more available, and if they can't do that, then I am in favor of someone else doing that. And if someone else can do that cheaper, then I am in favor of them doing that.

US govt has American flags made in China. US Govt loves America and is patriotic and freedom loving, but for them, buying the cheapest iconic symbol is best. Communist China is a billion times less communist than Russia ever was.

So in my opinion, the same holds true for UO. CHeapest is best when we are talking about identical items.

So I am seeing five parties here:
1) Real life losers in virtual economy (no performance enhancers)
2) Real life winners in virtual economy (performance enhancers)
3) Elitist players who feel class system in UO should be maintained. Achieved status through grind or by purchase (status quo)
4) Players who need certain items but don't have a second life to donate to UO. WIlling to achieve status through grind or by purchase (strive to achieve status)
5) Players that just log on and do a bod here, fight an orc there, tag along on Lady Mel run sometimes (no stake)

What I want is UO to look at the parties involved and figure out what is going on and solve the problem. In my opinion the problem is that the items are out of reach for "normal" people (no stake and people who want to be good players but lack time). As you said there is no skill involved, it is time that is the issue. I don't feel a game should be based solely on time and/or rl economic investment. It would be nice to have skill involved. Skill would be involved if I had the time and/or rl economic investment to get all the best items, but if I don't have those things then all the skill in the world will still equal "ooOoO."

Bod runs? 0 skill. Presumably 120 skill in tailoring would mean a person could craft awesome gear, but not in UO. 120 means 0 in UO. Grinding 1000s of hours of human life away to bod runs means that you can make awesome gear. I know, you already grinded 500 hours of human life away to get the skill to 120, but sorry, 120 equals 0 in UO. 0 skill game, only time and/or RL economic investment. That has to change.

Even if the hardcore grinders got things easier then the market would have more goods even if it was still hard for me to grind through them, so it would still benefit me because items would (theoretically, UO needs anti-trust laws) be cheaper.

Dupers scripters and slaveworkers have the same effect for me because they bring more goods to the market making the overall cost of goods go down.

So UO can increase the flow of goods by making them more attainable or dupers scripters and slaveworkers can increase the flow of goods by making them more attainable. Becuase I have no RL stake, both benefit me in UO. Current prices do not benefit me in UO. It benefits the people that manipulate the prices.

What is interesting is that UO Gods can do this. They can make the market flooded with all the best stuff for like 3 or 4 months and see what happens. It would resemble the old days, because everyone would have ACCESS to the same things much like everyone used to run around with platemail and a halberd. If it was a failed experiment and people hated it, then they could just make new items that trump the old ones and make them super rare and bring it back to this type misery.

Also the workforce (crafters) is flooded, but the resources are bottlenecked.

 

[Joyous2K]

They're all in their own respective game forums. Most games have their own official forums that they host themselves. UO is one of the few games with their official forums hosted by a third party.

UO: The Game of the Third Party

How true that is in about 50 different ways.

 

[WildWobble]

My 2 cents... Ok i have seen many new runics being sold for cheep but at same time mabe you all should try boding with good smiths the bod system has had it so you get the more rare ones more often and exceptional!! so the ppl who run bod bot accounts will be pumping quantitys unseen b4 into the market. it has taken a few months for ppl to see the # of good runics increase in numbers well its possible the bod botters are getting the good bods now and are acctually pumping the hammers kits ext... out for the gold to sell (but i also think there maybe a dupe out there some of the rates are just insane!!)

 

[Cysphruo]

End

I dont completely disagree with you but the problem is...

If I am saving up to buy the luna house at 15 million or 150 million...

And Joe Duper comes along and dupes 150 million and buys it that day. He now owns the house I was saving for.

Joe Duper dupes another 800 million and goes to Luna and says Ill buy your house for 500 million. Well the owner is like wow it would take me months, years to earn that. Ill sell it and just buy another.

The 500 million is 5x as much as the house is worth (AT THE TIME). When a dupe is new this is what happens. Players that cheat throw silly money to buy up things that can easily be had. Eventually the price adjusts and that guy that go the 500 million has to pay 500 million or more for a Luna house. Joe Duper got it for no time put in the game.

H

how bad would it suck if your real name was joe duper and you were reading this thread

 

[thejammonster]

this vendor on atlantic took care of any doubt i had:

theyre not even bothering to hide it

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

They dupe both. They dupe large quantities of checks, not gold, but still the same thing really.

Dupers dupe perishables, in all sizes and shapes. The more its worth the better chance it is being duped. Checks are unlikely to be duped as they are only worth thier face value.

@ Doomsday Dragon...AZ is correct.

@ Crystilastamous...aye...you and Goose know all too well what is or what is not worth duping.

 

[galefan2004]

Certain sites (that can not be named on Stratics) are trying to dominate certain items by buying them all up and selling them for cash. If you have a Luna vendor then things like ML ingredients and certain minor artifacts and such things are probably flying because of that.

*This is just speculation, but its about as much speculation as the dupe!*

 

[galefan2004]

Valorite Hammer prices were cut in half in about a week or two. On top of that some vendors were selling 10 at a time. That is a pretty good indication that a lot of duping was going on. This is also pretty bad news considering the changes they made to said hammers a couple publishes ago. They make near perfect armor and are now flooding the market with better than artifact quality equipment. This could have completely messed up any upcoming changes to the crafting system which may have been able to make items like these.

Ummm...

It couldn't be because they just made it 10x easier for almost any bod farmer to get them could it? I mean, hell, maybe them being much easier to get would have something to do with the prices dropping. Also, maybe the fact that the average person outside of Luna is probably selling them for what they can get cause its more gold than they have seen in awhile to people that place them on Luna vendors 10 at a time is causing them to be on a vendor 10 at a time.

*This is just speculation, but its about as much speculation as a dupe!*

 

[galefan2004]

Some certain people on Catskills are selling Ornies for 8M a pop. They sell for 14-16m normally, depending on buyer.

Hmmm...it couldn't have anything to do with Doom items being a joke to get now could it? Maybe they just started going to Doom and working the new system to farm Doom items? Nah...they must be cheating!

Sounds like at least a few people have hot potatoes they're trying to get rid of, before they get burned.

If you were trying to "get rid of" a runic cause you knew it was duped then you would be burning out the charges because most of the items sell for more than the runic and are legal items.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

I agree with the tone of the boards changing due to this. UO seemed to be on the cusp of a major come back. Old players were returning and posting questions, the events were the main topic outside of the normal bug/system complaints, and things looked good.

Honestly, I don't think UO's been on the cusp of a major comeback for quite some time. There have been no permanent, long-lasting signs of encouragement, and the KR client, which was supposed to bring with it tons of hope is -- witnessed by its continued incomplete status -- by most accounts, a dismal failure. The event stuff, while pretty, is more of the same, tired tread, and is coming at a pace so slow that if I were to be following it as a fictional plotline, I'd have already excised myself from the game simply because of it. It's a roleplayer's nightmare.

I want to point out too, that AoS brought us these items that have brought us this major problem. Do we really need power expansions? Why wouldn't sideways moves work just as good? New abilities and items, new rares, mage familiars, new item slots and wearing weapons, jumping and swimming, a new underwater realm....why do we have to constantly add more and more power that causes more and more problems?

AoS did not bring us this major problem. Duping has been going on since OSI released source code on the UO:T2A beta disk, and some schmuck figured out that if you fill your bank with chessboards, et cetera et cetera et cetera. AoS didn't cause this problem, and item properties, while not the best handling in the world, are what kept this game moving forward.

Frankly, UO's survival depends on it adapting some game industry standards. Trouble is, they're adapting the wrong ones.

And for everyone who says that a Pre-AoS shard would bring back thousands of players, I say, "Sure it would. As long as EA offered it for free." Otherwise, it would be the shortest lived explosion in gaming history. The problem with UO has never been potential, it's been implementation.

And... the KR client is the ONLY thing that will prevent duping, because it's the ONLY client that hasn't had its source-code plastered against the internet from sea to shining sea. As long as EA supports the 2D client, there will be duping, because apparently EA can't lock up its server code tight enough to still interact with the 2D client AND prevent duping. If it were possible, they'd have fixed it. But we all know the trend. They fix a dupe. Another one arises. They fix that one. Another one arises. There have been more dupes in this game since 1998 than any other game in the industry (that's the MMOG industry... I know Diablo had its share, but that's a whole different story).

While I think AoS sucked by way of introduction, I'm certain that it is not the source of all our woes.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

this vendor on atlantic took care of any doubt i had:

theyre not even bothering to hide it

AGAIN?

Oh for crying out loud.

And EA's answer will suck again too.

 

[MaryForUo]

i love silence from devs!
they are always sleeping? or sometime they
do something...

 

[RaDian FlGith]

i dont understand why the original owners of true rares/event items allowed their items to be duped...

They don't. Technically. The problem is that these items sometimes end up in the hands of people who aren't rare collectors and don't really care about their intrinsic value, and so they sell them to the highest bidder. Who may then turn around and sell them, and/or dupe them.

And before someone at EA rushes in with the "Well, if things like event items were no-drop no-trade," my response is "That answer does not belong in UO." It's a lazy programmer's way of dealing with the greater, over-arching issue.

At this point, though, the 2D client will be around until UO closes its doors. Which, at its current rate, won't be at its 20th anniversary like a certain sarcastic producer believes it will be.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

@ galefan...Do you really think there are more hammers around due to the BOD system change? If you are indeed advocating this possibility please note that you are mistaken.

The next time someone flips you a bag with 40 valorite hammers do the math.
(yes this is a reality...more could have been added to the bag but that was all I could carry!)
1 val hammer = 15000 BODs (estimate...more than likely low too!!)
40 val hammers = 600000 BODs
1 BOD crafted filled = about 1 minute
600000 BODs = about 600000 minutes or 10000 hours or 416 days (24/7).

Dont forget to factor in time spent getting 600000 BODs (3429 days for 7 chars to log in once per hour all day all night everyday)

Dont forget to add in the time spent turning them in!!

So lets see here...thats llike 4000 days with 2 accounts running 24/7 to get 40val hammers under the new system. Still think this has something to do with the BOD changes? *rolls eyes*

 

[Dhaerin]

Well if people are going to buy this gunk regardless, why wouldn't they want it cheaper?

Like maybe you make and sell gold and can make profit at .85 per mil.

Some other guy can make and sell gold and can make profit at .45 per mil.

If the public is going to buy the stuff regardless, why wouldn't they want to buy the same exact thing for 40 cents less?

What mucks everything up is when these forums are used as a bully pulpit to maintain income generated from playing UO. Sure you need to make your money, but I don't have to care about it. I am in favor of UO making these items more available, and if they can't do that, then I am in favor of someone else doing that. And if someone else can do that cheaper, then I am in favor of them doing that.

US govt has American flags made in China. US Govt loves America and is patriotic and freedom loving, but for them, buying the cheapest iconic symbol is best. Communist China is a billion times less communist than Russia ever was.

So in my opinion, the same holds true for UO. CHeapest is best when we are talking about identical items.

So I am seeing five parties here:
1) Real life losers in virtual economy (no performance enhancers)
2) Real life winners in virtual economy (performance enhancers)
3) Elitist players who feel class system in UO should be maintained. Achieved status through grind or by purchase (status quo)
4) Players who need certain items but don't have a second life to donate to UO. WIlling to achieve status through grind or by purchase (strive to achieve status)
5) Players that just log on and do a bod here, fight an orc there, tag along on Lady Mel run sometimes (no stake)

What I want is UO to look at the parties involved and figure out what is going on and solve the problem. In my opinion the problem is that the items are out of reach for "normal" people (no stake and people who want to be good players but lack time). As you said there is no skill involved, it is time that is the issue. I don't feel a game should be based solely on time and/or rl economic investment. It would be nice to have skill involved. Skill would be involved if I had the time and/or rl economic investment to get all the best items, but if I don't have those things then all the skill in the world will still equal "ooOoO."

Bod runs? 0 skill. Presumably 120 skill in tailoring would mean a person could craft awesome gear, but not in UO. 120 means 0 in UO. Grinding 1000s of hours of human life away to bod runs means that you can make awesome gear. I know, you already grinded 500 hours of human life away to get the skill to 120, but sorry, 120 equals 0 in UO. 0 skill game, only time and/or RL economic investment. That has to change.

Even if the hardcore grinders got things easier then the market would have more goods even if it was still hard for me to grind through them, so it would still benefit me because items would (theoretically, UO needs anti-trust laws) be cheaper.

Dupers scripters and slaveworkers have the same effect for me because they bring more goods to the market making the overall cost of goods go down.

So UO can increase the flow of goods by making them more attainable or dupers scripters and slaveworkers can increase the flow of goods by making them more attainable. Becuase I have no RL stake, both benefit me in UO. Current prices do not benefit me in UO. It benefits the people that manipulate the prices.

What is interesting is that UO Gods can do this. They can make the market flooded with all the best stuff for like 3 or 4 months and see what happens. It would resemble the old days, because everyone would have ACCESS to the same things much like everyone used to run around with platemail and a halberd. If it was a failed experiment and people hated it, then they could just make new items that trump the old ones and make them super rare and bring it back to this type misery.

Also the workforce (crafters) is flooded, but the resources are bottlenecked.

The problem here is your using a very morally bankrupt definition of real life economics and applying it to an online game, which in itself is completely ridiculous and incorrect. Using real life examples for the UO economy is comparing apples and refrigerators. I don't mean to discredit your long winded speech on how you want the world but don't want to spend the time to get it, but I don't think that is correct at all.

The UO economy is balanced without duping and cheating. The cheating and duping lowers prices, yes, but once again, this is being done by exploiting. Since we are using real life examples and erroneous economics classes and applying them to UO, it's like finding gas is too expensive, so you go over and shoot up a gas station to fill your car up. The gas will be cheap, but you just killed a few people and broke several laws to get it. Cheaper is better right?

The UO economy is actually very simple, if all items were gained legitimately, things would be balanced. Sorry for those who want everything for nothing, and hate working towards something, but EA made items hard to get for a reason, if you don't like that, then there are games like Second Life where you don't need to work to play the game, UO as an MMORPG has that gameplay element that rewards hard work with high end items, that's part of the genre.

Duping and cheating are the main reasons why UO's subscriptions are declining, with more players you would have more items, and more high end items would be introduced through players hard work, there's no crazy economic factors involved, just playing the game fairly. Sorry to break it to everyone, but thats the simple answer thats been staring everyone in the face, while everyone looks all around making excuses and blaming EA for an economy they were ultimately responsible for as an online community.