The state of UO, and a suggestion to the Devs

[CORRECTUO]

I made a come back to UO recently, urged by an old friend. I was excited, hoping to find the same level of fun and excitement the game once held. However, I was sadly disappointed.

Long ago when the game was released, there was only one world. And within this world, you were free to do whatever you wish. There wasno such thing as "leet" items, in fact, most everything people used was GM made. There was no item insurance, so death had a real meaning. You die, you lose what you have. Having a thief could be lucrative, being a PK extremely profitable. In time, some people who couldn't compete began to become spiteful. OSI was bombarded by people whining about other people killing them or stealing their items. This led to the release of Ultima Online: Renaissance, and marked the beginning of the end for UO.

The thing that made UO so great was that it was different from any other MMORPG. No other game offered you the freedom UO did, or the level of excitement. With the introduction of Trammel, UO took its first big step towards becoming another Everquest (Which was released after T2A and was immensely popular. So, OSI tried to copy some of their ideas to pull more players). Felucca was left mostly for the PvP'ers, but was still PACKED. I could go to Yew gate and find 2 dozen or more people there at any given time, easily. Now, you're lucky to find one.

Then UO realeased Third Dawn, and Lord Blackthornes Revenge, each time taking UO further and further away from its roots. We (The old school players, mainly in the PvP community) responded, and warned OSI that they were killing them game. They didnt listen. Then came the introduction of power scrolls, which completely threw off the balance of PvP. Then as soon as AoS launched, I called it quits and shipped off to bootcamp.

I come back 5 years later, and all of the predictions came true. UO is a wasteland, a dying game barely struggling to hold on. In order to maintain, OSI has upped the montly fee, and offered a ton of new perks for you to pay for with real cash. They have made UO just another run of the mill MMORPG by trying to be like the others. Its pathetic, really.

Devs, do you realize how many people are playing free shards that mimic T2A and UO:R? Literally over 7,000. I personally know of at least 400 that would come back to an OSI server if they put one up that was UO:R ruleset, prior to the introduction of champ spawns. Thats a big chunk of change back in EA's pocket.

Heres a few screenshots, just so you get an idea of what it used to be like. There would be faction sigil raids with over 300+ people participating. They would go all night, and the fighting was exhilirating. Think about it OSI, how hard would it be to take an old UO:R disc, and put up a shard with it? I can assure you, it would bring back a LOT of business. I'm willing to bet on it.

I couldnt agree more. The content that has been added on to over the years UO has been nothing more than a bane upon this once great MMORPG. Its is nothing more than a horrific, hollow husk of its former self. They have butchered this game, nay, this World of Sosaria, warping it, corroding it, trying to mimic other games that only have the success they have now because there is nothing better out there to play.

I have played pretty much all of the other games out there. AoC, WoW, DAoC, LoTRO, DnDO, Guild Wars, you name it, Ive played it since I left UO about 5 years ago. Not one of those games came even close to the sheer uniqueness of old school UO. Each of those games are nothing but tweaked clones of EQ, following the same stale game model over and over. UO in T2A was original. The PvP, the crafting, the skills system, all of that made UO amazing. A game can have stunning, videocard wrecking graphics but still not be worth a pile of horse manure if it has lousy game play. Sure, UO's graphics are 2d and over a decade old, but if it had the T2A rule set, crafting, skills, armor, etc, it could compete with all of the 3d games out there hands down because of superior gameplay and content.

I have spoken with countless players on all of the games I have played who were former denizens of Britannia. After hours in the OOC chats, they all said they would gladly come back to UO if there were T2A style servers. And no these weren't just PvP oriented players, these were RPers, Crafters, Ani-PKs and so many of the others who had the privlege of living the greatest era of UO and would love nothing more than to come back to it. They have even said they would come back despite the 2d graphics. Do you know why? Becuase UO was just that good. Its game play trumped the boring repetitveness of the EQ clone level grind to a pointless end game.

 

[CORRECTUO]

I think your wrong,

1. People would get bored fast with a old school shard(everyone with the same things) Bored to death of nothing ever changing.

As opposed to the way things are now? Just run the same champ spawns over and over and over and over and over and over. Oh yes, because things are so progressive the way they are now.....

You obviously never played T2A. Things were neither boring nor repetitive. Every time a player logged on, they never knew what was going to happen. They went to a dungeon and didnt know whether or not they would encounter a PKer, if they would have to fight off a ninja looter, or if something completely unexpected would happen.

2. PvP oh man...1 hour fighting the same guy, because of the limited variation in character creation. (again boring).

Limited variations in character creation? Are you insane? You had more options back in T2A for character creation than you do now. You see, today's UO is full of gimped and useless skills. Stealing, Item Identification, Arms Lore, all skills like that are useless. Back in T2A, when ALL of the skills were functional and served a purpose, you didnt know what skills your opponent's character had. They could have been a theif warrior, a warrior mage, an archer warrior, a hider fighter, have high parry, no parry, be a poisoner, you just didnt know. Today, there are only a few select templates that work, and everyone chooses them because they have no other choice due to the massively gimped skill selection.

3. 11 years on the net same game, same people, same same cheats, same scripts, same, same, same After 5 years you really have to hunt for stuff to keep interest in (anything) not just Uo.

You didnt have to hunt to find an interesting situation in old UO. Things were always up in the air. You didnt know what challenges lay around the next corner. The openess of the game kept things interesting. You didnt need to have the devs make up lame events that held your hand and guided you to the end. You made up your own adventure. It required an imagination, something it appears many of the people who made UO the way it is today are severely lacking in. The reason its so hard to find something to do in UO today be because there is nothing to do. All of the risk, all of the danger, all of the challenge is gone.

4. UO is only different these many years later because Shawn, your many years older and view things in a bit more mature manner. UO will never be the Same for you.

Because this isnt the same UO he played years ago. So is the case for every other dissatisfied veteran out there yearning for the days of old school UO. They have played everything elese, they have played the new content for UO, they have literally seen it all. After all of that, they are 100% sure of what they want. And what they want is old UO. No artifacts, no power scrolls, no runic hammers, no neon dyes, no ninjas or samurai, no BODs MODS, or any of that other idiocy.

My suggestion is to participate in a much more active manner in all the aspects of uo not just pvp.

This isnt just about the PvP. Every aspect of UO has been corrupted over the years. The crafting is useless, the PvE is stale and repetitve, and everything is all artifact dependent. UO has lost all aspects of its originality and is now just another rotting EQ clone.

 

[It Lives]

As opposed to the way things are now? Just run the same champ spawns over and over and over and over and over and over. Oh yes, because things are so progressive the way they are now.....

You obviously never played T2A. Things were neither boring nor repetitive. Every time a player logged on, they never knew what was going to happen. They went to a dungeon and didnt know whether or not they would encounter a PKer, if they would have to fight off a ninja looter, or if something completely unexpected would happen.



Limited variations in character creation? Are you insane? You had more options back in T2A for character creation than you do now. You see, today's UO is full of gimped and useless skills. Stealing, Item Identification, Arms Lore, all skills like that are useless. Back in T2A, when ALL of the skills were functional and served a purpose, you didnt know what skills your opponent's character had. They could have been a theif warrior, a warrior mage, an archer warrior, a hider fighter, have high parry, no parry, be a poisoner, you just didnt know. Today, there are only a few select templates that work, and everyone chooses them because they have no other choice due to the massively gimped skill selection.



You didnt have to hunt to find an interesting situation in old UO. Things were always up in the air. You didnt know what challenges lay around the next corner. The openess of the game kept things interesting. You didnt need to have the devs make up lame events that held your hand and guided you to the end. You made up your own adventure. It required an imagination, something it appears many of the people who made UO the way it is today are severely lacking in. The reason its so hard to find something to do in UO today be because there is nothing to do. All of the risk, all of the danger, all of the challenge is gone.



Because this isnt the same UO he played years ago. So is the case for every other dissatisfied veteran out there yearning for the days of old school UO. They have played everything elese, they have played the new content for UO, they have literally seen it all. After all of that, they are 100% sure of what they want. And what they want is old UO. No artifacts, no power scrolls, no runic hammers, no neon dyes, no ninjas or samurai, no BODs MODS, or any of that other idiocy.



This isnt just about the PvP. Every aspect of UO has been corrupted over the years. The crafting is useless, the PvE is stale and repetitve, and everything is all artifact dependent. UO has lost all aspects of its originality and is now just another rotting EQ clone.

1998 Is when I started playing, So yes I was around.

Obviously things after so many YEARS are going to become repetitive and stale.

In a direct comparison there is more to do now and more templates to choose from, more content, EVER.

(I believe this is the problem with most vets, they refuse to adapt to the added content). * I am not the cock of the walk anymore better go sulk*

Doing champs over and over is a personal choice.

Personally I am paying for progress.

If you want old school Shawn pointed to a very viable solution, free shard.

 

[MalagAste]

I started playing shortly after UO:R..... and I'll tell you right now I wouldn't play a pre-Ren shard.... I'm one of those folks that would get mighty annoyed to have some loser and his group of cronies kill me over and over taking my stuff everytime I manage to get something nice just because they can....

I don't EVER want to have to travel in packs just to get to do things without getting wiped out every other moment..... I don't want to have to spend all my time looking over my shoulder for joe schmo killer..... NOPE I'd hate that ..... and losing my house because some twerp jacked my key would be it for me..... my house is about the only reason I play UO..... besides my friends...

So while your painting a rosey picture of what life WAS like in UO remember that it was only that way because you ruined it for other people..... people who would NOT be playing anymore..... then you'd be bored because the only folk who are around are just as devious and have just as many if not more cronies than you and they will be just as quick to jack your stuff..... and before long EVERYONE will be bored stiff.... or have quit....

And yes rampant cheating is still around now as it was then along with rampant exploiters, rampant scam artists and a whole bunch of other losers out there who are just trying to scam a living out of a game..... Crazy as that is... folk who can't hold down a real regular job they feel the need to make a living off being a cheat in a game... pretty sad really.

But to say that UO is dead??????? Far from it..... I hate to say this but the whole Trammel/Felluca thing was like soooo long ago that it's not EVEN a factor anymore in the state of UO...... do you honestly believe that??? Seriously if Trammel killed UO then by gods UO would never have had a 5th year anniversary.... Think about that.....

As much as I hate to admit it Publish 16 didn't Kill UO either.... as that was ever so many many years ago too. What's killing UO now is the lack of new up to date content and the lack of advertising along with the fact that EA games hasn't done UO any favors over the years.... infact it would seem to me that EA Games has done just about everything in their power to make UO fail.... and it's only by the grace of luck and those of us die hard fans that just WON'T quit that it remains today.... Though it's limping pretty badly.... everyone is hoping that SA will give UO back a pulse of some sort..... somewhat like a 700 billion dollar economy bail out is hoped to do for the economy.... I only hope SA does a better job of boosting.

And for your information I'm not just another Trammy.... I do go to fel..... Been there many times... I just don't base all my fun on one activity.... I like PvP, PvM, house deco and design but most of all I like my friends and I love Role-play.... that's what keeps me in UO. NO other game even comes close still after all this time to what UO has...... You can say it's becoming more and more like other games..... but UO still has way more than any other game has to offer....

 

[Loqucious]

In a direct comparison there is more to do now and more templates to choose from, more content, EVER.

(I believe this is the problem with most vets, they refuse to adapt to the added content). * I am not the cock of the walk anymore better go sulk*

Doing champs over and over is a personal choice.

Personally I am paying for progress.

If you want old school Shawn pointed to a very viable solution, free shard.

Couple things:

1. Yes there is more content. However, it is this content that has "directed" the game in a certain way. There is less room for imagination and creativity which the original game was rife with (I joined just before LBR).

2. I don't think of this as "progress" I look at it as added junk. What the heck is it to be at 120 skill?! What the heck is HCI, DCI, AR?! This stuff is ridiculous. I don't HATE it (well I am starting to, I think), but it just makes the game more "childish" for lack of better words.

3. The sulking comment causes your post to lose credibility IMO.

4. If we could get the thousands of free shard players to return I think this would benefit the game greatly.

The original game was beautiful in it's simplicity. It is now an ugly mess of items, imbalance, and redundant ideas.

 

[Draxous]

Long ago there was only one game and in that game people played to keep from being bored. Lets face it. The problem with UO right now is that its over 10 years old and hasn't recieved a serious update in 10 years. WoW is updating their graphics again with their expansion and they update their UI every single patch. UO simply fell by the way side because of the lack of much need graphical and ui changes. Add that to the fact that WoW is now shifting its focus towards small group play coupled with grouping tools that make the game fun to play in a group and you see where a lot of the gaming population has went and why.

If UO is to have any future then they need to rewrite the entire game from the ground up keeping what works and trashing what didn't. I don't see how they can do that without making a UO2.

On the same note, do you have any idea how much it sucks trying to catch up with players that have played the game 10 years longer than you have? In WoW its a non-issue because the game basically resets every year or so, but in UO having that level of "experience" and the "wealth" associated with it can be a REAL advantage over someone just entering the game, and in MMORPGs players really do need to be on equal standing to enjoy the game.

This is why UO has the potential other games done... in Felucca.

If they made hunting monsters fun, lucrative (great loot dropping often,) and resources fun to gather... this game would shine.

Felucca brings community, no item insurance brings trade and fluidity, good loot drops bring rewards to the risks and that's the foundation of what UO was built upon.

The reason why this game was, has been and should continue to be a success is because players log in to play the 'end game' in UO. Whether it's interacting with each other or interacting with new content (events.)

Trammel... frankly kills it. Theres no dynamic out come. There's just the game and then it's over... so say bye bye to the bored player... unless you constantly poor content in and then... you get what this guy describes.

 

[Xenobia]

I started playing shortly after UO:R..... and I'll tell you right now I wouldn't play a pre-Ren shard.... I'm one of those folks that would get mighty annoyed to have some loser and his group of cronies kill me over and over taking my stuff everytime I manage to get something nice just because they can....

I don't EVER want to have to travel in packs just to get to do things without getting wiped out every other moment..... I don't want to have to spend all my time looking over my shoulder for joe schmo killer..... NOPE I'd hate that ..... and losing my house because some twerp jacked my key would be it for me..... my house is about the only reason I play UO..... besides my friends...

So while your painting a rosey picture of what life WAS like in UO remember that it was only that way because you ruined it for other people..... people who would NOT be playing anymore..... then you'd be bored because the only folk who are around are just as devious and have just as many if not more cronies than you and they will be just as quick to jack your stuff..... and before long EVERYONE will be bored stiff.... or have quit....

And yes rampant cheating is still around now as it was then along with rampant exploiters, rampant scam artists and a whole bunch of other losers out there who are just trying to scam a living out of a game..... Crazy as that is... folk who can't hold down a real regular job they feel the need to make a living off being a cheat in a game... pretty sad really.

But to say that UO is dead??????? Far from it..... I hate to say this but the whole Trammel/Felluca thing was like soooo long ago that it's not EVEN a factor anymore in the state of UO...... do you honestly believe that??? Seriously if Trammel killed UO then by gods UO would never have had a 5th year anniversary.... Think about that.....

As much as I hate to admit it Publish 16 didn't Kill UO either.... as that was ever so many many years ago too. What's killing UO now is the lack of new up to date content and the lack of advertising along with the fact that EA games hasn't done UO any favors over the years.... infact it would seem to me that EA Games has done just about everything in their power to make UO fail.... and it's only by the grace of luck and those of us die hard fans that just WON'T quit that it remains today.... Though it's limping pretty badly.... everyone is hoping that SA will give UO back a pulse of some sort..... somewhat like a 700 billion dollar economy bail out is hoped to do for the economy.... I only hope SA does a better job of boosting.

And for your information I'm not just another Trammy.... I do go to fel..... Been there many times... I just don't base all my fun on one activity.... I like PvP, PvM, house deco and design but most of all I like my friends and I love Role-play.... that's what keeps me in UO. NO other game even comes close still after all this time to what UO has...... You can say it's becoming more and more like other games..... but UO still has way more than any other game has to offer....

VERY well said! Thanks for saying what many of us feel but can't seem to get into words

 

[CORRECTUO]

I started playing shortly after UO:R..... and I'll tell you right now I wouldn't play a pre-Ren shard.... I'm one of those folks that would get mighty annoyed to have some loser and his group of cronies kill me over and over taking my stuff everytime I manage to get something nice just because they can....

Shortly after UO:R? That tells me right there that you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to how the game worked in T2A. Getting killed and losing your stuff is what happened. Players who actually had a pair got over it, regeared, and kept playing. The rule of the game was, as soon as you set foot outside of town, you were setting foot into danger. And thats what made the game good. There was an actual threat out there players had to evade or fight.

Players didnt get killed over and over. And if they did, it was because they were dumb enough to go back to their corpse, or they were even dumber enough to let the PKer rez them and then kill them over and over. Other than that, players ran back to town and got rezzed. And heres a news flash for you, PKs werent allowed in town, the guards killed them the second they entered their protection zone.

And no, players didnt get killed every time they got something nice. I cant count how many times I saw players running around with Vanq weapons and full suits of invincibility gear and were using said gear to kill PKs. Everything was replaceable, all it took was time to do it. Second, GM gear was plentiful and was used more widely than anything else. Unlike todays UO, where GM crafted gear is CRAP and having a crafter is pointless, the open loot of old UO made crafting useful. USEFUL! Why? Because there was no such thing as artifacts or item insurance. People didnt need it. All they needed to do was either make themselves a new siut of very good gear or buy it off of someone else. It was a functional economy based on supply and demand fuled by item loss via over use and it getting looted.

Now pay attention, son, because school is about to start:

I don't EVER want to have to travel in packs just to get to do things without getting wiped out every other moment..... I don't want to have to spend all my time looking over my shoulder for joe schmo killer..... NOPE I'd hate that ..... and losing my house because some twerp jacked my key would be it for me..... my house is about the only reason I play UO..... besides my friends...

Thats bull! Players didnt have to travel in packs. Whoever told you that was a liar or some whiney carebear who couldnt handle getting PKed and looted and had to exagerate to validate their whining.

The only time you lost your house is if you were stupid enough to carry both your house key and your rune to your house. And if someone jumped you outside your house and tried to get in, a little "I ban thee" solved that and it was bye bye PK. If someone managed to kill with with just your key on you and looted the key, they had no idea how to get to your house because they didnt know where it was. Any player who had half a brain knew to never have their house rune on them and to always leave it in the bank and recall off of it from there. Again, more exagerations from carebear whiners. Do you honestly know how often a PK lucked out and managed to take someones house? Do you? Obviously not. It happened maybe once in a while. It rarely happened because people took precautions and knew how to play the game. They didnt need to have their hand held and to guided everywhere.

And even if by some fluke or your own idiocy a PK did get your house key, all you needed to do was get back to the house before them and change the locks. That frigg'n' simple. Change the damn locks and the old key was rendered useless and your house was safe once more. Then it was another "I ban thee", and again, bye bye house theif.

As for someone hiding in your house or stealthing in behind you, all you had to do was use detect hidden and it revealed anyone in your house. Plus, you didnt need to have the skill trained up either. It was a freebie thrown to house owners if used in their house. It would reveal even GM hiders and stealthers.

So while your painting a rosey picture of what life WAS like in UO remember that it was only that way because you ruined it for other people..... people who would NOT be playing anymore..... then you'd be bored because the only folk who are around are just as devious and have just as many if not more cronies than you and they will be just as quick to jack your stuff..... and before long EVERYONE will be bored stiff.... or have quit....

You dont get it at all. The only people who had the game ruined for them were the ones who couldnt handle getting PK'd. And unless they couldnt handle it, why the hell were they playing to begin with? They ruined the game for those who did enjoy it by whining and crying about getting looted and PK'd. And back then, there were a lot more pro PvP players around. These people werent just PKs, they were antis, crafters, RPers, casuals, and hardcores. People werent bored because the open PvP kept things interesting. Players never knew what was going to happen next. They made their own fun. They didnt need to have some EM make some lame scenario for them. They used their imagination and came up with things to do because the game offered the kind of freedom for such ways of thinking. People made guild wars with eachother, had dueling tournaments, player run RP events, and much more.

We arent painting a rosey picutre. We are telling the truth as to how the game was played and what made it good, as compared to the rotting cess pit it is today.

And yes rampant cheating is still around now as it was then along with rampant exploiters, rampant scam artists and a whole bunch of other losers out there who are just trying to scam a living out of a game..... Crazy as that is... folk who can't hold down a real regular job they feel the need to make a living off being a cheat in a game... pretty sad really.

Cheating is WORSE today in UO. Back in T2A the worse cheats were the house ones, but even then they only happened once in a blue moon when someone was stupid enough to get their house key looted. Today, the game is rife with cheaters, hackers, exploiters and gold farmers. Why? Because all of the new garbage they have shoveled into UO over the years has made it possible.

But to say that UO is dead??????? Far from it..... I hate to say this but the whole Trammel/Felluca thing was like soooo long ago that it's not EVEN a factor anymore in the state of UO...... do you honestly believe that??? Seriously if Trammel killed UO then by gods UO would never have had a 5th year anniversary.... Think about that.....

Listen to me, child, because Ill only say this once. UO is still going only because of the 50,000 asian accounts running it. And most, if not all, of those accounts are for gold farmer sweat shops. Look it up on Wikipedia some time. Its all there. Of the appoximate 70k accounts supprting UO, 50k of them are from asia.

So, yes, UO is dead.

As much as I hate to admit it Publish 16 didn't Kill UO either.... as that was ever so many many years ago too. What's killing UO now is the lack of new up to date content and the lack of advertising along with the fact that EA games hasn't done UO any favors over the years.... infact it would seem to me that EA Games has done just about everything in their power to make UO fail.... and it's only by the grace of luck and those of us die hard fans that just WON'T quit that it remains today.... Though it's limping pretty badly.... everyone is hoping that SA will give UO back a pulse of some sort..... somewhat like a 700 billion dollar economy bail out is hoped to do for the economy.... I only hope SA does a better job of boosting.

They could update the graphics and add in all the EQ copied garbage they want, its just shoveling more trash on top of more trash. SA isnt going to save anything, just like Kingdom Reborn didnt, just like Mondain's Legacy didnt, just like Samurai Empire didnt, just like Age of Shadows didnt.

The only thing that WILL save UO is to clear away the trash and re-start from the beginning. Yes, the game will probably lose its new, trammie player base that is accustom to carebear gameplay. But in exchange, it will see a massive return of over 100,000 veteran players who would give anything to have the true, original UO back.

PS, 100,000 players was the total number of players 6 months after UOs initial release. That number spiked to over 250,000 after T2A. AOS or any expansion after that didnt bring in numbers like that, now did they? No, as a matter of fact, those expansions caused more people to quit.

And for your information I'm not just another Trammy.... I do go to fel..... Been there many times... I just don't base all my fun on one activity.... I like PvP, PvM, house deco and design but most of all I like my friends and I love Role-play.... that's what keeps me in UO. NO other game even comes close still after all this time to what UO has...... You can say it's becoming more and more like other games..... but UO still has way more than any other game has to offer....

Yeah, you are a trammy. You havent even really played UO or have experienced true PvP or even understand how UO worked. All youve seen is IvI (Item versus Item) which involves no skill what so ever. Thats probably why you like it so much. UO today has as much to offer as WoW. A mindless grind and endless item hunt that reruns in a never ending cycle.

 

[Xenobia]

Shortly after UO:R? That tells me right there that you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to how the game worked in T2A. Getting killed and losing your stuff is what happened. Players who actually had a pair got over it, regeared, and kept playing. The rule of the game was, as soon as you set foot outside of town, you were setting foot into danger. And thats what made the game good. There was an actual threat out there players had to evade or fight.

Players didnt get killed over and over. And if they did, it was because they were dumb enough to go back to their corpse, or they were even dumber enough to let the PKer rez them and then kill them over and over. Other than that, players ran back to town and got rezzed. And heres a news flash for you, PKs werent allowed in town, the guards killed them the second they entered their protection zone.

And no, players didnt get killed every time they got something nice. I cant count how many times I saw players running around with Vanq weapons and full suits of invincibility gear and were using said gear to kill PKs. Everything was replaceable, all it took was time to do it. Second, GM gear was plentiful and was used more widely than anything else. Unlike todays UO, where GM crafted gear is CRAP and having a crafter is pointless, the open loot of old UO made crafting useful. USEFUL! Why? Because there was no such thing as artifacts or item insurance. People didnt need it. All they needed to do was either make themselves a new siut of very good gear or buy it off of someone else. It was a functional economy based on supply and demand fuled by item loss via over use and it getting looted.

Now pay attention, son, because school is about to start:



Thats bull! Players didnt have to travel in packs. Whoever told you that was a liar or some whiney carebear who couldnt handle getting PKed and looted and had to exagerate to validate their whining.

The only time you lost your house is if you were stupid enough to carry both your house key and your rune to your house. And if someone jumped you outside your house and tried to get in, a little "I ban thee" solved that and it was bye bye PK. If someone managed to kill with with just your key on you and looted the key, they had no idea how to get to your house because they didnt know where it was. Any player who had half a brain knew to never have their house rune on them and to always leave it in the bank and recall off of it from there. Again, more exagerations from carebear whiners. Do you honestly know how often a PK lucked out and managed to take someones house? Do you? Obviously not. It happened maybe once in a while. It rarely happened because people took precautions and knew how to play the game. They didnt need to have their hand held and to guided everywhere.

And even if by some fluke or your own idiocy a PK did get your house key, all you needed to do was get back to the house before them and change the locks. That frigg'n' simple. Change the damn locks and the old key was rendered useless and your house was safe once more. Then it was another "I ban thee", and again, bye bye house theif.

As for someone hiding in your house or stealthing in behind you, all you had to do was use detect hidden and it revealed anyone in your house. Plus, you didnt need to have the skill trained up either. It was a freebie thrown to house owners if used in their house. It would reveal even GM hiders and stealthers.




You dont get it at all. The only people who had the game ruined for them were the ones who couldnt handle getting PK'd. And unless they couldnt handle it, why the hell were they playing to begin with? They ruined the game for those who did enjoy it by whining and crying about getting looted and PK'd. And back then, there were a lot more pro PvP players around. These people werent just PKs, they were antis, crafters, RPers, casuals, and hardcores. People werent bored because the open PvP kept things interesting. Players never knew what was going to happen next. They made their own fun. They didnt need to have some EM make some lame scenario for them. They used their imagination and came up with things to do because the game offered the kind of freedom for such ways of thinking. People made guild wars with eachother, had dueling tournaments, player run RP events, and much more.

We arent painting a rosey picutre. We are telling the truth as to how the game was played and what made it good, as compared to the rotting cess pit it is today.



Cheating is WORSE today in UO. Back in T2A the worse cheats were the house ones, but even then they only happened once in a blue moon when someone was stupid enough to get their house key looted. Today, the game is rife with cheaters, hackers, exploiters and gold farmers. Why? Because all of the new garbage they have shoveled into UO over the years has made it possible.



Listen to me, child, because Ill only say this once. UO is still going only because of the 50,000 asian accounts running it. And most, if not all, of those accounts are for gold farmer sweat shops. Look it up on Wikipedia some time. Its all there. Of the appoximate 70k accounts supprting UO, 50k of them are from asia.

So, yes, UO is dead.



They could update the graphics and add in all the EQ copied garbage they want, its just shoveling more trash on top of more trash. SA isnt going to save anything, just like Kingdom Reborn didnt, just like Mondain's Legacy didnt, just like Samurai Empire didnt, just like Age of Shadows didnt.

The only thing that WILL save UO is to clear away the trash and re-start from the beginning. Yes, the game will probably lose its new, trammie player base that is accustom to carebear gameplay. But in exchange, it will see a massive return of over 100,000 veteran players who would give anything to have the true, original UO back.

PS, 100,000 players was the total number of players 6 months after UOs initial release. That number spiked to over 250,000 after T2A. AOS or any expansion after that didnt bring in numbers like that, now did they? No, as a matter of fact, those expansions caused more people to quit.



Yeah, you are a trammy. You havent even really played UO or have experienced true PvP or even understand how UO worked. All youve seen is IvI (Item versus Item) which involves no skill what so ever. Thats probably why you like it so much. UO today has as much to offer as WoW. A mindless grind and endless item hunt that reruns in a never ending cycle.

Wow you are quite loose with the whole "son" and "child" thing aren't you? First of all...get over yourself. I did play back in T2A and I absolutely hated the fact that I could never play by myself. If I wanted to mine, I HAD to have others around because some moron red would run up and whack my smith/tailor. Most of us who play UO, play it because of the 2D factor. There are tons of things they could do to update the game without turning it back to the old game it was or, worse yet, turning it into WoW. If you wanna call me and whoever else a carebear or a trammy then so be it if it makes you feel more like an adult but I'm having such a hard time seeing you as one.

P.S. Alert Alert!!! People cheated just as much back then as they do today SON!

 

[ShaunOfPac]

Wow, people are grossly misinformed about the old play mechanics of UO.

For one, you NEVER needed to travel in groups. Back then, PK's for few and far between. There are literally hundreds of more PK's now then there were in T2A. Why? Stat loss. If you had 5 or more short term murder counts, you could not resurrect or you would take significant losses to your skills (Think faction stat loss, but instead of only 20 minutes it was permanent). You could go days and weeks without ever encountering a PK. Thieves on the other hand, were plentiful in some places. But even thieves are easy to deter, simply by hiding your goods under death robes.

The UO economy was BOOOOOOMING! Lets compare, shall we? Nowadays, you get one suit for your char, insure each item, and you're set forever. Back in T2A, you died in a dungeon and didnt make it to your corpse or got looted, you needed to buy a new suit. A full leather gm made suit cost maybe 2k gold, a gm weap usually around 100-300 gold. You could easily suit back up and be on your way, with very little actual loss. Seriously, when you died what did you lose? As a mage, I maybe lost 100 each reg, a full leather suit, and either my hally and katana(T2A for swords/tact mage) or my bandages(Post UO:R for my heal/anat mage). A whopping loss of maybe 3k gold. Wow. Thats what? Like 2 dragons worth of loot? What you people fail to understand is that back then you didnt run the risk of losing super uber items, because they simply did not exist. What you lost was VERY rarely significant.

The crafting skills were much more rewarding, also. Like I said, once a person gets a suit, they dont buy anything else. Back then, a vendor selling full armor suits could pull in big bucks, and have to be restocked on a daily basis. Now you put items on a vendor and they will sit there for months. There was also brand recognition back then. If you managed to make a name for yourself by providing highly sought after goods and having constantly stocked vendors, you could rake in MAJOR money. For instance, my bowcrafter on Pacific was reknowned because my vendor was constantly packed with the highest VDP archery weapons (Chances are most people dont know what VDP is), and there was a plethora of archer mages. I paid for all my regs, all my supplies just from the sales of my archery weapons off my vendor.

And I am sorry, but NOTHING will bring back UO other than completely reworking it. The original was a masterpiece. It was so simple, but yet allowed for so much to be done with it. Every skill was useful (Even ****ing CAMPING had its place), the game had more balance than it ever had, and was thoroughly engaging. Since Richard Garriot has left the game, all OSI/EA/Myhtic has done was take the "Ultima" out of Ultima Online. They have removed what made this game great, the simplicity and engaging gameplay. Back then items had VERY little to do with success, unlike now where items are EVERYTHING in the game. I could die, get res'd, have a buddy hand me a bag with 50 each reg, and gojoin the fight again and be EXTREMELY dangerous. Everyone was on equal playing field, and success was determined by the strategies you chose. Now if I die, I need to equip every piece of armor, jewelry, clothing, etc., and even then if someone has better items than you its almost impossible to take them down.

As far as cheating. . . Today it is thousands of times more prominent. When I played, if someone was speedhacking, you called a GM and got an almost immediate response. An entire GUILD was banned because of speedhacking, and the GM's took it VERY seriously. Nobody cared about duping, because there was no need to have mega millions to suit your character up. I can think of maybe 6 exploits that had any real efect on the game in its first six years, whereas now I can think of atleast a dozen I've seen in the 4 months I've been back. Its funny, one thing I was told when I came back was "Everyone speedhacks now, the GM's don't even care". And its true. Go sit around yew gate on any shard, and the people there skip around screen. Call a GM, and they send you a canned response. If this was 2002, you can bet your life they would be there, and anyone they saw speedhacking would find themselves in jail with a nice email detailing why their account is banned on the way.

 

[ColterDC]

players log in to play the 'end game' in UO.

Whether the end game you refer to is PvM, PvP, Crafting, IDOCing, etc. You soon realize that the end game of UO is controlled by cheaters........ So why bother.

 

[Xenobia]

Whether the end game you refer to is PvM, PvP, Crafting, IDOCing, etc. You soon realize that the end game of UO is controlled by cheaters........ So why bother.

UO is what you make it. I don't make my living off of the game, therefore I can find TONS of fun things to do all by myself or with my friends. If this were a RL tournament where thousands of dollars were on the line and people were using drugs or other means to cheat, then yes, it's a big deal. But this is a game and I know that I get the things I own by working for them so all the other stuff really doesn't bother me. Again, I'm not a pvper and there are tons of folks that are more passionate about that but it's a game. Enjoy it or go elsewhere. It's just that simple.

 

[MalagAste]

Wow, people are grossly misinformed about the old play mechanics of UO.

For one, you NEVER needed to travel in groups. Back then, PK's for few and far between. There are literally hundreds of more PK's now then there were in T2A. Why? Stat loss. If you had 5 or more short term murder counts, you could not resurrect or you would take significant losses to your skills (Think faction stat loss, but instead of only 20 minutes it was permanent). You could go days and weeks without ever encountering a PK. Thieves on the other hand, were plentiful in some places. But even thieves are easy to deter, simply by hiding your goods under death robes.

The UO economy was BOOOOOOMING! Lets compare, shall we? Nowadays, you get one suit for your char, insure each item, and you're set forever. Back in T2A, you died in a dungeon and didnt make it to your corpse or got looted, you needed to buy a new suit. A full leather gm made suit cost maybe 2k gold, a gm weap usually around 100-300 gold. You could easily suit back up and be on your way, with very little actual loss. Seriously, when you died what did you lose? As a mage, I maybe lost 100 each reg, a full leather suit, and either my hally and katana(T2A for swords/tact mage) or my bandages(Post UO:R for my heal/anat mage). A whopping loss of maybe 3k gold. Wow. Thats what? Like 2 dragons worth of loot? What you people fail to understand is that back then you didnt run the risk of losing super uber items, because they simply did not exist. What you lost was VERY rarely significant.

The crafting skills were much more rewarding, also. Like I said, once a person gets a suit, they dont buy anything else. Back then, a vendor selling full armor suits could pull in big bucks, and have to be restocked on a daily basis. Now you put items on a vendor and they will sit there for months. There was also brand recognition back then. If you managed to make a name for yourself by providing highly sought after goods and having constantly stocked vendors, you could rake in MAJOR money. For instance, my bowcrafter on Pacific was reknowned because my vendor was constantly packed with the highest VDP archery weapons (Chances are most people dont know what VDP is), and there was a plethora of archer mages. I paid for all my regs, all my supplies just from the sales of my archery weapons off my vendor.

And I am sorry, but NOTHING will bring back UO other than completely reworking it. The original was a masterpiece. It was so simple, but yet allowed for so much to be done with it. Every skill was useful (Even ****ing CAMPING had its place), the game had more balance than it ever had, and was thoroughly engaging. Since Richard Garriot has left the game, all OSI/EA/Myhtic has done was take the "Ultima" out of Ultima Online. They have removed what made this game great, the simplicity and engaging gameplay. Back then items had VERY little to do with success, unlike now where items are EVERYTHING in the game. I could die, get res'd, have a buddy hand me a bag with 50 each reg, and gojoin the fight again and be EXTREMELY dangerous. Everyone was on equal playing field, and success was determined by the strategies you chose. Now if I die, I need to equip every piece of armor, jewelry, clothing, etc., and even then if someone has better items than you its almost impossible to take them down.

As far as cheating. . . Today it is thousands of times more prominent. When I played, if someone was speedhacking, you called a GM and got an almost immediate response. An entire GUILD was banned because of speedhacking, and the GM's took it VERY seriously. Nobody cared about duping, because there was no need to have mega millions to suit your character up. I can think of maybe 6 exploits that had any real efect on the game in its first six years, whereas now I can think of atleast a dozen I've seen in the 4 months I've been back. Its funny, one thing I was told when I came back was "Everyone speedhacks now, the GM's don't even care". And its true. Go sit around yew gate on any shard, and the people there skip around screen. Call a GM, and they send you a canned response. If this was 2002, you can bet your life they would be there, and anyone they saw speedhacking would find themselves in jail with a nice email detailing why their account is banned on the way.

First of all I'm not "misinformed" about the past. I have TONS of friends who played "Back in the day" from the beginning of UO BETA.....

Secondly just because YOU didn't have any problem doing things on your own doesn't mean that 90% of the rest of the people were fine with PK's.... First off if you DIDN'T start off in Beta and work up skills it was as many have informed me (many infact who quickly quit the game because of the Rampant PK's and looting..... and won't even give UO a second look or try because of it).... it was extremely difficult to work skills and try to get ahead in the game because if you didn't already have friends in UO and didn't know anyone stepping out of town was instant death...

No one wants to play a game where you have to have stuff in order to do anything...


And to CORRECTUO...... I'm not your Son..... I'm not a kid.... infact I'm likely old enough to be your parent.... and this parent can survive just fine in Fel or anywhere else in the game. What I"m saying is your nostalgia for the early days of UO is a bit cracked.... and your seeing it through rosey glasses that not everyone shared. There are dozens of things that have come about since the "good ole days" that have made this game much, much better over time.... one of those thing is Trammel... I can name dozens of good and bad things that have happened in UO but then so can anyone else what it boils down to when all is said and done however is that it's YOUR own opinion..... The only things I would like re-instated from those early days are Seers.... and true consequence to being a Murderous red..... bounty hunting was nice..... though I can see why it was removed..... but there ought to be a way to bring back some sort of "punishment" for being a criminal....

You know one of my thoughts was if you get killed as a Red then your character and it's body is automatically transported to Yew Prison where you have to spend an entire hour to consider your sins before you are allowed to leave again. That would make a person think twice before committing murder.

But those are my opinions... My opinion is UO isn't as dead as you make it out to be.....some of us are still having a GREAT time.

Everyone in the game measures their "fun" in a different way..... some like to see how much wealth they can gather, others enjoy collecting things, some like crafting, others just want to cheat, some steal, others seem to delight in ruining the game play of others...... and some just want to PvP..... But trying to make the game suit only your play style will not bring in more people..... Not everyone plays UO for the same reasons you do.... and not everyone has the same goals when they play..... everyone does pay to play... and they pay to have fun.... if your not having fun you can always quit paying.

 

[AesSedai]

- Well said Malagaste.

Shaun:
The economy was better back then because there were less cheaters & less duping cheaters (there were still cheaters & duping like crazy back then); and the market was not flooded (legit or illegit. flooding) with items, as much as it is today. Drops of rain eventually make oceans.
VDP is vendor determined? pricing.
High-end magic weapons weren't the easiest to acquire (of course AoS made the high-to-low, the range & rarity, of uber weapons much greater). The average player on a nekkid mage template could dominate most non-mages for most of the pre-insurance years.
They did take care of cheaters more in years' past. But, imho, that's only because they had more GM's devoted to one game & more time was spent GM'ing the game in general.

Now imagine a pre:shard in the present. Imagine the how much further UO's resources would have to be divided - just to create the code to make a pre:shard & not even to maintain it. Unless Mythic decides that UO is the future of their mmo unit, I highly doubt it's going to happen. And I think it would be a huge mistake to further divide UO's resources to take the gamble that a few thousand players will return for a year or more.
Furthermore, I believe that the Gamebryo engine (a favorite of Mythics and others) is a much better investment in UO than any retro shard(s) would ever be.

 

[ShaunOfPac]

First of all I'm not "misinformed" about the past. I have TONS of friends who played "Back in the day" from the beginning of UO BETA.....

Secondly just because YOU didn't have any problem doing things on your own doesn't mean that 90% of the rest of the people were fine with PK's.... First off if you DIDN'T start off in Beta and work up skills it was as many have informed me (many infact who quickly quit the game because of the Rampant PK's and looting..... and won't even give UO a second look or try because of it).... it was extremely difficult to work skills and try to get ahead in the game because if you didn't already have friends in UO and didn't know anyone stepping out of town was instant death...

No one wants to play a game where you have to have stuff in order to do anything...


And to CORRECTUO...... I'm not your Son..... I'm not a kid.... infact I'm likely old enough to be your parent.... and this parent can survive just fine in Fel or anywhere else in the game. What I"m saying is your nostalgia for the early days of UO is a bit cracked.... and your seeing it through rosey glasses that not everyone shared. There are dozens of things that have come about since the "good ole days" that have made this game much, much better over time.... one of those thing is Trammel... I can name dozens of good and bad things that have happened in UO but then so can anyone else what it boils down to when all is said and done however is that it's YOUR own opinion..... The only things I would like re-instated from those early days are Seers.... and true consequence to being a Murderous red..... bounty hunting was nice..... though I can see why it was removed..... but there ought to be a way to bring back some sort of "punishment" for being a criminal....

You know one of my thoughts was if you get killed as a Red then your character and it's body is automatically transported to Yew Prison where you have to spend an entire hour to consider your sins before you are allowed to leave again. That would make a person think twice before committing murder.

But those are my opinions... My opinion is UO isn't as dead as you make it out to be.....some of us are still having a GREAT time.

Everyone in the game measures their "fun" in a different way..... some like to see how much wealth they can gather, others enjoy collecting things, some like crafting, others just want to cheat, some steal, others seem to delight in ruining the game play of others...... and some just want to PvP..... But trying to make the game suit only your play style will not bring in more people..... Not everyone plays UO for the same reasons you do.... and not everyone has the same goals when they play..... everyone does pay to play... and they pay to have fun.... if your not having fun you can always quit paying.

You are rather misinformed. I didn't start in the Beta. I got along just fine figuring things out on my own, and I got PK'ed quite a bit before I got a strong footing. Did I ever get upset? Hell no. Even as a brand new char, getting killed and losing the crap I had on me wasn't frustrating whatsoever. Everything was easily replaced back then, with a few exceptions (Vanq katana, for example).

You have yet to give one prime example of how UO is better now than it was then. If you are going to use the fact that now we have all sorts of neat items, or the fact you can grow neat little plants, please just don't respond. Please tell me how the economy is better, tell me how much more enjoyable and exciting the game is. Could you tell me how much more rewarding crafting is, or how much more balanced the game is and give examples why?

The early game almost FORCED you to group up. Way back when, the "trammies"(This was before Trammel) would hold dungeon crawls. A large group of people would band together to take on an entire dungeon, going through every level. The champ spawns you do today are the equivalent of fighting an ancient wyrm back then. It used to take an army to kill one, or a VERY long time with GM Magery and some luck (They could kill in one or two hits). Now practically ANYONE can solo an ancient wyrm, and hell I've seen people solo a champ. I've even seen one person solo Lady Mel. Back then not only did you have to compete with the monsters in a dungeon, but occasionally a PK would hear of the crawl and come running. I was in MANY epic battles between the role players and PK's, and usually at the end it was the PK's who were vanquished (There were just far less of us). And the roleplayers actually ENJOYED us attacking! Hell, sometimes the people running the crawl would ICQ us and tell us when and where. This always added an element of danger and excitement, and the fights we brought were welcome.

Hell, even training skills forced you to interact with others. Today, if you wanna work up a weapon skill what do you do? You get a golem, a 100% poison damage weapon, and whack away alone. Back in the day, you went to the bone knight or rotting corpse room that was constantly occupied with around 20 other people. You could sit there and talk and network with people while working up your skills.

The people who sit there and pancake about the PK's now and compare them to what PK's were then have no ****ing clue what the hell they're talking about. Now people PK for no ****ing reason, with no repercussions. Before AoS, murdering had a severe punishment: Stat loss. Every count you took had to be worth it. We wouldn't kill some random newb running around, because the crap loot he would carry wouldn't be worth taking a count. However, if you ran around with a silver vanq and full invulnerability plate, you better believe you were gonna be a target. And if you did run around suited up, it was damn easy to carry a recall scroll and a rune to a safe location so as soon as you see red, get the **** out of dodge. The people who got killed were either ********, who tried to stick around and fight.

Not only that, but if you were red you couldnt even go into a town or a guard zone whatsoever. If you go too close to a moongate or to a town gate, you were as good as dead (Well, not really. Prior to an exploit where people were killing guards across Moonglow gate, you could actually run away from guards).

Hell, I remember sitting near glow cemetary, and killing one guy for his silver power halberd. 5 minutes later, he came back with over a dozen others from town for vengeance. That was usually the case, actually. When someone got killed near a town, they would usually run to the bank and rally the forces there, everyone was always up to hunt a PK. Hell, when I was starting out I would be in those bands of people hunting down PK's.

It all comes down to the fact that the game is nowhere near as exciting as it once was, and its because the developers have taken the risk and reward out of it. They have destroyed any balance the game had when they made the entire game item based. They basically plaigerized every other MMORPG, and now Ultima Online just isn't an Ultima. Its an amalgamation of Diablo 2, EQ, and WoW.

 

[ShaunOfPac]

- Well said Malagaste.

Shaun:
The economy was better back then because there were less cheaters & less duping cheaters (there were still cheaters & duping like crazy back then); and the market was not flooded (legit or illegit. flooding) with items, as much as it is today. Drops of rain eventually make oceans.
VDP is vendor determined? pricing.
High-end magic weapons weren't the easiest to acquire (of course AoS made the high-to-low, the range & rarity, of uber weapons much greater). The average player on a nekkid mage template could dominate most non-mages for most of the pre-insurance years.
They did take care of cheaters more in years' past. But, imho, that's only because they had more GM's devoted to one game & more time was spent GM'ing the game in general.

Now imagine a pre:shard in the present. Imagine the how much further UO's resources would have to be divided - just to create the code to make a pre:shard & not even to maintain it. Unless Mythic decides that UO is the future of their mmo unit, I highly doubt it's going to happen. And I think it would be a huge mistake to further divide UO's resources to take the gamble that a few thousand players will return for a year or more.
Furthermore, I believe that the Gamebryo engine (a favorite of Mythics and others) is a much better investment in UO than any retro shard(s) would ever be.

There were less cheaters and dupers because there was no real drive to cheat and dupe. The only items that were worth duping were checks and old rares, nothing that affected gameplay. There was no point in hoarding multimillions because nothign cost that much (Blessed blacks were the most common rare item, and they only cost 300-500k). Why would anyone care to dupe millions? Now, with the solely item based gameplay, there is a LOT more motivation to find ways to dupe elite items to get the upper hand in the game. If all people really had was gm made items, why would anyone care to dupe them? However, if someone can make 25 mil from a val runic hammer, they are going to try and dupe the hell out of it. Am I right?

And yes, vendor determined pricing. Basically, not all gm made items were equal. If you made an item and put it on your vendor, he would automatically price it based on its quality. It was usually a 7gp range (64-71gp for a heavy xbow I remember).

And as far as UO's future, putting it on a different engine with flashy graphics, but keeping the same gameplay mechanics, will ultimately fail. They NEED to make it Ultima Online again, not "Knock Off of Other Successful MMORPG's Online".

 

[AesSedai]

When UO began it was only one version on many servers.
Now we have 3 versions (Tram-Fel-Siege/Mugen) on many servers & in multiple languages & 2 different clients.

I wish it was more simple, like before, too.

They can make it more like it was before and I really think they are striving to achieve as much.

 

[Harlequin]

There were less cheaters and dupers because there was no real drive to cheat and dupe. The only items that were worth duping were checks and old rares, nothing that affected gameplay. There was no point in hoarding multimillions because nothign cost that much (Blessed blacks were the most common rare item, and they only cost 300-500k). Why would anyone care to dupe millions? Now, with the solely item based gameplay, there is a LOT more motivation to find ways to dupe elite items to get the upper hand in the game. If all people really had was gm made items, why would anyone care to dupe them? However, if someone can make 25 mil from a val runic hammer, they are going to try and dupe the hell out of it. Am I right?

And yes, vendor determined pricing. Basically, not all gm made items were equal. If you made an item and put it on your vendor, he would automatically price it based on its quality. It was usually a 7gp range (64-71gp for a heavy xbow I remember).

And as far as UO's future, putting it on a different engine with flashy graphics, but keeping the same gameplay mechanics, will ultimately fail. They NEED to make it Ultima Online again, not "Knock Off of Other Successful MMORPG's Online".

Shaun, while I understand what you are trying to say, some of them I agree with, but some others I don't.

There has always been cheaters and dupers, it's the same for every game. In fact, UO being the innovative persistent world MMORPG, this was rampant during the early days, and exploits were not fixed for months. Crashing other clients with special unicode letters, house break-ins, 3rd party apps that allow you to see the exact hp of other players (as in 34/80, not just a percentage like now), show people that are hidden/invised, the original speedhack, the black dyetub was created from another 3rd party app, flying boats from yet another 3rd party app, and all the various dupes etc. All these cheats have been fixed (I'm talking about 1997 - 2002)

People didn't dupe GM made items, they duped regs, gold, castle deeds, invul armor/vanq weapons. At that time, these were the best items and there is no less motivation to dupe these compared to the val hammer and HOM nowadays.

In fact, if you were to compare, nowadays, exploits are fixed very quickly. They will even bring down the shards immediately to fix serious exploits.

There seems to be more cheaters now because of several reasons -
1) the population is smaller, 5 cheaters in 1000 is less noticable than 5 cheaters in 10
2) they tend to run in groups, eg speedhacking guilds
3) information about the cheats are passed around more quickly
4) insufficient in-game GMs to respond to issues quickly

Issue 1 is out of their control. They cannot mind control players into not cheating, they can instead fix the exploit and ban the cheaters. A crude analogy - if another soldier breaks into your barracks and commits a crime, do you blame the army for not doing something to prevent soldiers from turning into criminals? No, because that's not fair. The only thing the army can do is to find and arrest the perpetrator for a court martial, then look at installing better procedures and security. However, even with the best locks, someone determined enough will always fill a way past it. That's what they are doing in UO. Ban the cheaters, fix the exploits and the source. But they can't prevent cheaters finding new ones.

However, a better advertising campaign to bring in more new blood would be welcome to bring the percentage of cheaters down.

Issue 2 is also out of their control, but they do ban entire guilds that have been found to be cheating

Issue 3, another one that's outside their control. This is where fan sites like Stratics come with policies to discourage posting of cheats.

Issue 4 is where they can do something. I know it's a catch 22 situation...less subs = less money to hire GMs...


So as you said, just spiffy graphics is a start, but will not make it into a success 10 mil subs success, they need to sell UO for it's strength - the first of it's kind and argue-ably the only one of it's kind - a complete virtual world - the Ultima Online world where it's not about grinding and leveling up. Where you can have the freedom to do anything you want. Which includes PvP, PvM, Crafting, Dragon taming, gardening, owning houses and decorating it.

 

[Velvathos]

I think there should be a casual PvP shard, similar to Seige, but one that isn't difficult.... PvP anywhere, attack anyone anywhere, but do this.. Make it the opposite on everything else, no looting, no corpse decay, ect.. Siege isn't a PvP server though, it is for advanced players.. Just make a casual PvP server..

 

[ShaunOfPac]

I agree with you over much of what you say, Harlequin. There was also the program that allowed you to get neon hair dye for only 50k vice 500k Exploits were fairly common, but VERY few actually had an effect on the balance of play. The house break ins was one, crashing a server to "blackhole" yourself and dupe items, was another, speedhack (Which was fixed), but other than that most were mundane. Now you look at the exploits I've seen:
I've seen 2 invincibility exploits(one made someone unbelievably hard to kill, and impossible without more than one person. The other made a person COMPLETELY unkillable), one exploit to use practically no mana when executing all special moves, 3 special move exploits that use no mana, one to negate special ability timers, multiple speedhacks, 2 various dupes, I mean the list of game balance affecting exploits is astonishing. Its really easy to see why there are so many exploits: They made things TOO complex. When you try to do too much, you leave a LOT of room for loopholes. The game was simple before, there wasn't much that could be done. Now with SOOO many systems in place, items, skills, etc., there is a LOT of room for error and mistakes. The age old saying "Keep it simple" applies immensely here.

Velvathos, I don't simply want a server that has casual PvP. Before I enjoyed the game for EVERY aspect of it. I enjoyed going out on my tamer/bard and scouring the dungeons, and if a group of PK's attacked me I had to PvP skill to fight them off and usually kill the majority of them. After all, the elite PK's were my friends, the rest were just gimps preying on the weak, and had no real PvP skill. After I made a name for myself with the gimps, I would almost never get attacked. I enjoyed crafting, because I established a name for myself and my goods were hot selling items. I enjoyed PvP because of the skill and thought involved, not the amount of time or money spent on collecting the most elite of items. i enjoyed playing my thief! He was a disarm thief, with GM Magery/Eval/Med/Wrestling/Stealing/Hiding. My favorite thing was to walk around yew gate and look for dexxers with power or vanq weapons, and disarm steal them when they left guard zone. I'd unflag from them, and usually when they saw me again they'd attack. Unknown to them I was amazingly adept at playing a mage, and would always wind up killing them for the rest of their loot Fights with other mages on that char were usually tricky because he had 0 resist, but the vasy majority of the time I could kill the mage (Like I said, all the elite PvP'ers were friends of mine so only the lower end ones attacked). Except the guild OPP of Pacific, they ****ing hated me with a passion, lol.

Back to what I was saying; I want a shard that brings back the unique gameplay of UO, one with an open world to do whatever you please. One that has rewarding gameplay no matter which profession you choose. One that offers excitement at every turn, where you can get that surge of adrenaline when you narrowly escape with your life from a PK. Just making a casual PvP server won't do anything to revitalize the game, there needs to be a completely retooling of the game (Or detooling, if you will). And if anyone says no, that it would completely throw the game off and render some chars useless. . . You obviously werent there for the launch of AoS, that turned pretty much EVERY char built before it completely useless.

 

[Astrel]

I also used to play on Pac, well before 2002. UO has always had items, we had different levels of armor and weapons, just that now they are more varied and better. What ruined Fel was the cheats, PVP became impossible against players using speed hack, being able to cast through walls, and one-hit-kill fireballs. While talk of pre UO:R never seems to go away, the truth is that if Tram did not come into existence then UO would have died years ago.

I am sorry to point out that what you say about being able to fight off PKs in pre UO:R is pure romance, the odd one or two yes, but against the gank squads who basically played with a different client it made no difference how skilled you thought you were.

 

[ShaunOfPac]

I also used to play on Pac, well before 2002. UO has always had items, we had different levels of armor and weapons, just that now they are more varied and better. What ruined Fel was the cheats, PVP became impossible against players using speed hack, being able to cast through walls, and one-hit-kill fireballs. While talk of pre UO:R never seems to go away, the truth is that if Tram did not come into existence then UO would have died years ago.

I am sorry to point out that what you say about being able to fight off PKs in pre UO:R is pure romance, the odd one or two yes, but against the gank squads who basically played with a different client it made no difference how skilled you thought you were.

As far as not being able to fight off PK's, you obviously werent very active in the Pacific PvP community. Did you ever take a trip to the duel roof? What was your name? Have you ever fought Pax Romain, Southern Comfort, Micah, Britney Spears., Grendel, Me (Shaun), Orion, Azryk Azyr, etc.? Any of those named could easily dispatch larger groups of PK's. Dealing with a gank squad was rather simple on my tamer, this was before there were pet limits. I would take all 9 of my WW's hunting with me, so all kill was instant death. On my swords/tact mage (Before UO:R) I would run and precast a flamestrike, equip hally, hit the first person i saw with the hally/fs, and equip the katana to finish him off (Most people here probably have no idea what insta hit is), then get the **** out of dodge and repeat. After UO:R it was immensely easy on my heal/anat mage. With the alternate means of healing myself, carrying a large amount of pots, my ability to use the fast cast technique, and the fact most people didnt have perfectly balanced stats made dispatching people easy. If I targeted a dexxer, I'd cast agility and feeblemind, then explo mb and fast cast the 2nd mb. A mage? Cast cunning and clumsy, same technique. It sounds remarkably easy, but there were very few who could pull off this technique.

 

[CORRECTUO]

First of all I'm not "misinformed" about the past. I have TONS of friends who played "Back in the day" from the beginning of UO BETA.....

Secondly just because YOU didn't have any problem doing things on your own doesn't mean that 90% of the rest of the people were fine with PK's.... First off if you DIDN'T start off in Beta and work up skills it was as many have informed me (many infact who quickly quit the game because of the Rampant PK's and looting..... and won't even give UO a second look or try because of it).... it was extremely difficult to work skills and try to get ahead in the game because if you didn't already have friends in UO and didn't know anyone stepping out of town was instant death...

Okay, what you just said right here, the whole insta death crap, this tells me that you are 100% misinformed and totally clueless about how UO was played. Steping out of town wasnt instadeath, thats just bull that wusses and cowards who were expecting UO to be an EQ carebear land cried when they got their asses handed to them. I stepped out of town hundreds, if not thousands of times and was rarely PKed. And this was on Catskills on a saturday night during peak hours when EVERYONE was on.

90% of the other players on the game had the brains and skill to deal with PKs. Its was the 10% of whiners, carebears and inept PvPers who constantly complained about getting killed. They knew this was a PvP game, why the hell were they playing it? Cant take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Extremely difficult to work up skills? Oh, now I know youre just making stuff up. Typical carebear liar. I had 15 7x GM characters on my three accounts. 15 7x GM's! How could I have done that if it was so extremely hard to work up skills. And I wasnt even in a guild. I did it all, SOLO. How you ask? Simple, I knew how to play the game, how to survive, and most of all how to utilize my characters skills to their utmost potential.

Im sorry a player like you didnt know their arse from a hole in the ground and got killed, but frankly thats your problem. There were far more players who were successful and did enjoy the game the way it was. If UO was such an aborhant monstrosity of a game, then explain how come after the first 6 months after the initial release of the game there were over 100,000 players?

No one wants to play a game where you have to have stuff in order to do anything...

Which is exactly why UO is in the sorry shape its in now. In today's UO, you need ultimate epic artifact everything just to **** straight. Not the case in old UO. You didnt need the best gear, just the best strategy.

And to CORRECTUO...... I'm not your Son..... I'm not a kid.... infact I'm likely old enough to be your parent.... and this parent can survive just fine in Fel or anywhere else in the game.

Wow, old enough to be my parent. That would make you... what 70, 71? Well, gramps, your senility and alzheimers is clearly imparing your judgment as is evident by the bull you keep flinging about what you claim to know in regards to old UO. Now go take your pills and let those of us who actually knew what UO was about speak.

Oh yeah? You can survive anywhere? Prove it. Support retro servers and come play on one. Then we will see how well you survive without your insurance and uber gear.

What I"m saying is your nostalgia for the early days of UO is a bit cracked.... and your seeing it through rosey glasses that not everyone shared.

Never said everyone shared my view. But those who didnt were the minority. A vast majority of players enjoyed the way UO was. I dont look at it through rosey glasses, I look at it the way it was. It was brutal, unforgiving and savage, but it was a hell of a good time. Every day was a new experience. You never knew what was going to happen when you logged on, who you would encounter, what you would find, or what challenges would arise. The people who didnt like the PVP didnt have to play the game. They could have just left, but instead they whined, bitched and complained and look what it got UO; the messed up patchwork, slipshod ruin it is today.

There are dozens of things that have come about since the "good ole days" that have made this game much, much better over time.... one of those thing is Trammel... I can name dozens of good and bad things that have happened in UO but then so can anyone else what it boils down to when all is said and done however is that it's YOUR own opinion.....

Lets see, what has happened to the number of players of UO over the years? Oh thats right, they've declined, drastically. And its not because of outdated graphics. No, Ive met many players on AoC, the new standard in graphics, who have said they would come back and play UO in 2d.

Trammel good? All trammel did was easymode things. It took the critical element away that made UO the unique and challenging experience it was; risk. With out risk, there was no point. Oh yeah, some wimp could farm a million gold without getting PK'd. And then what? Hes got all that money, so what does he do with it? Nothing. There was no reason to spend money, you never lost your gear from a PK. The challenge was gone. There was no challenge of survival.

Before Trammel, crafters crafted not just to make money, but to aid in the survival of not only themselves, but others. It helped form a community and commerce. After trammel, you had the elitests come in and people started acting colder towards one another. There was less trading in towns. I remember in the old days how the blacksmith shop near the music academy was packed with blacksmiths selling armor and repairs. Because people could horde so much money inflation set in and prices of things got crazy. BODs made this worse.

It was AFTER trammel that people started getting bored. People didnt make their own adventures. No, they needed to be force fed half baked events made by equally half baked EMs. Everyone knew what was coming and it was boring. The thrill was gone.

But those are my opinions... My opinion is UO isn't as dead as you make it out to be.....some of us are still having a GREAT time.

Emphasis on some, considering that the majority of the active accounts on UO now are just asian gold farmer accounts.

Everyone in the game measures their "fun" in a different way..... some like to see how much wealth they can gather, others enjoy collecting things, some like crafting, others just want to cheat, some steal, others seem to delight in ruining the game play of others...... and some just want to PvP..... But trying to make the game suit only your play style will not bring in more people..... Not everyone plays UO for the same reasons you do.... and not everyone has the same goals when they play..... everyone does pay to play... and they pay to have fun.... if your not having fun you can always quit paying.

Oh, and because UO is just sooooo accomodating now, isnt it? Let see, what about players who want to be theives? What can they do? They are bascially screwed. They cant steal from anyone anymore. Well, I guess those people are SOL. How about crafters? Well, they cant compete without 120.0 skill and valorite runic crafting tools. So thats another profession down. What to make a warrior/mage? Not without an uber suit of arti gear.

And how does a player go about getting all of these items? Well, they are going to need to know someone. Hey, wait a minute, isnt that what you said about old UO? That the only way to survive is to know someone? Thats another thing that proves you have no idea about how old UO worked. Because all you did was describe the way UO is today.

I did quit playing, and so did many many many other people. Whats this game down to now? 20K subs? where as in the past it peaked at around 250,000K. Oh yeah, this game is doing great.

there is only one way to prove me wrong, and thats to put in retro servers and see which do better. Im willing to bet that the retro servers do far better than the current ones. And that is exactly what EA and those who like the way the game is now are afraid of. It will prove, once and for all, that everything EA has done to UO over the years was a collosal mistake and that the original set up was fine the way it was.

 

[Nvnter]

I think what damn near all of you are forgetting is to look at yourselves. You are all purists. Dedicated players . If you have stayed loyal or cared for this game as long as you and I have (not my original screen name, damn Stratics deletes) you are special. I have run 3 guilds in my history 2 on Chessy and 1 now on Legends. My first 2 had over 15 players (notice not chars but players). I started right at UoR and I tried the PvP and it disgusted me, my choice so I started PvM guilds. and for a couple of years things were great. The "purists" only left UO to try something new or life issues. Not because of cheating or PvP because we all made our choice. I even took a break because the content had become predictable and the loss of guildmates was demoralizing.

I now wait with impatience for the next expansion because crafting sounds exciting again. A new graphix engine would spark new interest. I think UO needs to find another niche tho. Maybe it is time to really invest in its oceans maybe and naval warfare. Who knows. But cheating didnt kill UO and neither did the Fel/Tram split. Reverting a shard I would bet would bring little return for the investment. As for the expansion i do disagree with adding more land to build on we are becoming like the midwest, spread out and no need to interact.

 

[Clair]

I never liked to PVP from early '99 when I started playing UO. It added an element of excitement and real danger to UO, and that I liked. I learned how to defend myself, joined a good guild, and learned not to behave stupidly. What made Trammel necessary was the gank squads running around res killing newbies. This behavior made the non-pvp interested players bitter and angry. My wife spent her early days around Moonglow killing bunnies then hinds to build skill and earn her way in the world. She had nothing and got murdered numerous times. There was no profit in killing her. She was killed simply because her murderer wanted to have a negative impact on her life. Some people that are red and into PvP love competetion. Those people are probably the remaining PvPers in UO. If you want a fight someone on equal terms you can find it in the game. If you want the perverted thrill of killing someone at a great disadvantage who does not consent, those times are gone. Everyone says they were around but they don't act like the remember. UO was full of 13 year old jerks who got off on blood lust. I miss the trill of real danger. I loved those times! That being said, I don't want to go back. That world was a society without law inforcement. The consequences for murder were mild and most people found ways around them. It was the wild west and it couldn't last. Look back fondly. Remember the good times. But be real. There were real reasons for Trammel. It had to be.

 

[katherinepgoh]

Hi, I'd just like to say that I've been a Roleplayer for years, and in many different games, and I also know that a lot of roleplayers get lured over to Europa because of a certain thing....
They use only standard GM crafted equipment, so people are equal. The way it was in UO:R, T2A, and everything before AOS pretty much. It makes it much more fun because you don't need everything to go crazy. And yes, their community has done many events in felucca, even doing champion spawns.

With PK'ers there, who are geared up in all their artifacts, attack these Rp'ers.

And I've seen the PK'ers lose, too.

A shard where you didn't have to work so ridiculously hard to be able to pvm, much less pvp, would likely be a huge success. Especially with new players, since if you released it with a new expansion, and didn't allow shard transfers, it automatically puts people at equal footing. However, the big problem here is the shard would likely be overwhelmed with people, and those other shards with people who left would be even more empty. And an empty shard is what would cause people to leave.

I've also hopped onto the japanese shards, and do you know what I've seen? Ridiculous amounts of activity. Why is this? Because they still have an active volunteer program, with Seers, counselors, and others who help new players and old feel like part of a WORLD and a COMMUNITY instead of part of a GAME. This is what UO captured so well in the past, and I am hoping beyond all hopes that the new EM's grasp this one key concept...

UO was never a game. It is, was, and has always been a world and a community. That is why UO had such an amazing fanbase, and still does. That is the reason that so many of us veterans are still holding on, because of the community. But every time we add more and more items, and more and more ridiculous monsters, We lose more of those veterans, and the loss will soon be exponential.

And as for it being impossible to throw up a server with a different ruleset? Ever see the halloween shards? I don't think it'd be too hard, but then again I'm not a programmer, so I dont know.

My two pennies ^_^

 

[Redxpanda]

PvP in general was better back in the days. Fights were honorable and people went toe to toe by choice and it was exciting and rewarding.

They messed up when they decided to force pvp by luring people to fel. They should of just fixed the system so that people pvp because they want to. Then we wouldn't have what we have now (gank squads and resource hording).

 

[CORRECTUO]

I never liked to PVP from early '99 when I started playing UO. It added an element of excitement and real danger to UO, and that I liked. I learned how to defend myself, joined a good guild, and learned not to behave stupidly. What made Trammel necessary was the gank squads running around res killing newbies. This behavior made the non-pvp interested players bitter and angry. My wife spent her early days around Moonglow killing bunnies then hinds to build skill and earn her way in the world. She had nothing and got murdered numerous times. There was no profit in killing her. She was killed simply because her murderer wanted to have a negative impact on her life. Some people that are red and into PvP love competetion. Those people are probably the remaining PvPers in UO. If you want a fight someone on equal terms you can find it in the game. If you want the perverted thrill of killing someone at a great disadvantage who does not consent, those times are gone. Everyone says they were around but they don't act like the remember. UO was full of 13 year old jerks who got off on blood lust. I miss the trill of real danger. I loved those times! That being said, I don't want to go back. That world was a society without law inforcement. The consequences for murder were mild and most people found ways around them. It was the wild west and it couldn't last. Look back fondly. Remember the good times. But be real. There were real reasons for Trammel. It had to be.

No, Trammel didnt have to be. Its called, those would couldnt handle getting PK'd should have left the game or learned to deal with it and survive. You got PK'd, boo hoo. Run to town, rez, re-gear, then hunt down the SOB who killed you, cut off his head, then lock it down on the front steps of your house. I got PK'd plenty when I was a newbie. But at least I had the brains to NOT GO BACK TO MY BODY, because logic told me, gee, that person probably picked the corpse clean, best to just forget about it and get some new stuff.

Your wife got rez killed by a red? The only way that could have happened is if she rezed outside of town near the PK OR she was stupid enough to let the red rez her then kill her over again. Otherwise, she would have ran back to town and rezed there where she would have been safe. I mean, for F'ks sake, it was freak'n' Moonglow! The town wasn't that far away!

And heres a little blast from the past for you, Reds couldnt enter town and if anyone attacked her there, the guards would have killed them. And PS, running back to your corpse and getting killed by it again isnt getting rez killed, its called your dumb noob ass was stupid enough to think that a PK would leave anything on it to retrieve. So obviously you have no idea of what rez killing was or you're just lying and exagerating in general to justify the carebearization of UO.

There was law enforcement. I couldnt count how many times I went PK hunting with a group of Anti's that lived near me. As a matter of fact, there were a good number of anti PK guilds around who went to dungeons for the sole purpose of killing Reds. It was good fame and karma gains, plus the gold didnt hurt none either.

Its players like you who need their hand held for everything that ruined UO.

 

[phantus]

No, Trammel didnt have to be. Its called, those would couldnt handle getting PK'd should have left the game or learned to deal with it and survive. You got PK'd, boo hoo. Run to town, rez, re-gear, then hunt down the SOB who killed you, cut off his head, then lock it down on the front steps of your house. I got PK'd plenty when I was a newbie. But at least I had the brains to NOT GO BACK TO MY BODY, because logic told me, gee, that person probably picked the corpse clean, best to just forget about it and get some new stuff.

Your wife got rez killed by a red? The only way that could have happened is if she rezed outside of town near the PK OR she was stupid enough to let the red rez her then kill her over again. Otherwise, she would have ran back to town and rezed there where she would have been safe. I mean, for F'ks sake, it was freak'n' Moonglow! The town wasn't that far away!

And heres a little blast from the past for you, Reds couldnt enter town and if anyone attacked her there, the guards would have killed them. And PS, running back to your corpse and getting killed by it again isnt getting rez killed, its called your dumb noob ass was stupid enough to think that a PK would leave anything on it to retrieve. So obviously you have no idea of what rez killing was or you're just lying and exagerating in general to justify the carebearization of UO.

There was law enforcement. I couldnt count how many times I went PK hunting with a group of Anti's that lived near me. As a matter of fact, there were a good number of anti PK guilds around who went to dungeons for the sole purpose of killing Reds. It was good fame and karma gains, plus the gold didnt hurt none either.

Its players like you who need their hand held for everything that ruined UO.

Heh. You are funny. Thanks for trammel by the way. You were the reason for it.

Trammel should never have been created. Not for the reason the above tough guy states however. Trammel was a bad solution to a bad problem.

 

[CORRECTUO]

Heh. You are funny. Thanks for trammel by the way. You were the reason for it.

Trammel should never have been created. Not for the reason the above tough guy states however. Trammel was a bad solution to a bad problem.

Bull****. It wasnt because of players like me. It was the carebears and their inability to cope with getting PK'd that made trammel come along.

 

[phantus]

Bull****. It wasnt because of players like me. It was the carebears and their inability to cope with getting PK'd that made trammel come along.

Nah. You think one way and history shows another. Claim what you will but I was there and I know exactly what occured.

Being pk'd was fine and it was accepted for a while. Then it became popular, much like UO, and more and more people started playing it. Then it became less about honor or roleplaying and more about pwning carebears and noobs. It became about killing people in the graveyard unable to kill simple skeletons and dry looting. It became about cutting up peoples armor and leaving it on their bodies. It became about hiding and smelting people ore they worked to gather....etc, etc etc.

As I said, I was there and I saw it's decline. Trammel was a poor solution to a bad problem.

 

[AesSedai]

Yup, Trammel didn't become because of a whim; it became because of a need. It has been well-documented how UO hemorrhaged accounts due to the rampant PKing pre-Tram & as well how that was explicitly not what the original dev.s wanted UO to be all about. Don't believe me? Look it up, most is still available here on this interweb thingy, aside from some great Stratics' & MyUO forum's history (which both had the best UO history).

 

[CORRECTUO]

Nah. You think one way and history shows another. Claim what you will but I was there and I know exactly what occured.

Being pk'd was fine and it was accepted for a while. Then it became popular, much like UO, and more and more people started playing it. Then it became less about honor or roleplaying and more about pwning carebears and noobs. It became about killing people in the graveyard unable to kill simple skeletons and dry looting. It became about cutting up peoples armor and leaving it on their bodies. It became about hiding and smelting people ore they worked to gather....etc, etc etc.

As I said, I was there and I saw it's decline. Trammel was a poor solution to a bad problem.

That stuff was small crap, and it was happening since the beginning of the game. Only wusses and carebears were the ones who complained about that stuff. The rest of us just dealt with it and learned to work around it, or fought through it.

d00ds and jerks were always around. It didnt just magically start when the game got popular. And even then, they werent the majority.

As for the smelting stealing, that was more small potatoes crap that happened once in a while. Most people just chucked explosion pots at the forge when they suspected it was happening or casted reveal, exposed the punk, then killed him or drove him off. Simple solution. All it took was for people to use their heads and the answers to the problems revealed themselves.

I was there too. The only time I saw any form of decline in honor or decent players was after trammel. Then you got the mouthy teens, the kill stealers, more cheaters, more exploiters, etc etc etc, because there was no form of retribution anymore to keep the little skid marks in check. The ******* mentality raged after Trammel.

Believe me, the threat of getting PK'd for being an ass was the best enforcer of honor and decency.

 

[CORRECTUO]

Yup, Trammel didn't become because of a whim; it became because of a need. It has been well-documented how UO hemorrhaged accounts due to the rampant PKing pre-Tram & as well how that was explicitly not what the original dev.s wanted UO to be all about. Don't believe me? Look it up, most is still available here on this interweb thingy, aside from some great Stratics' & MyUO forum's history (which both had the best UO history).

Yeah, hemoraged accounts, right. Thats why the game reached 100,000 players after 6 months, because it was losing so many players. Mmm hmm, right.

If it was losing so many players as you say then the game would never have made it past the first few months after release.

You want to talk about hemoraging accounts, thats what the game did after trammel, then it really started gushing after AoS. Yeah, because trammel and everything that followed was soooo great. Then explain the poultry sub rates the game brings in now? By my math, it seems that UO had far more players before Trammel.

I guess the losses back then were all that bad, now were they? What was the game losing? Carebears? Wusses? Idiots? Good riddance, I say.

 

[AesSedai]

Yeah, hemoraged accounts, right. Thats why the game reached 100,000 players after 6 months, because it was losing so many players. Mmm hmm, right.

If it was losing so many players as you say then the game would never have made it past the first few months after release.

You want to talk about hemoraging accounts, thats what the game did after trammel, then it really started gushing after AoS. Yeah, because trammel and everything that followed was soooo great. Then explain the poultry sub rates the game brings in now? By my math, it seems that UO had far more players before Trammel.

I guess the losses back then were all that bad, now were they? What was the game losing? Carebears? Wusses? Idiots? Good riddance, I say.

- Oh, so you think they added Trammel because UO was doing such a good job at maintaining a majority of the several hundred thousand potential players that tried it out pre-Tram?
The term for the turnover rate was called 'churn'; there was an excesssively high level of churn in pre-Tram days ~ people simply did not care to pay for the essentially 'non-policed wild-west' -mentality that quickly evolved.

If you were there in the past, and you did follow MyUo or even Stratics, then you have surely read the exact reasons for the development of Trammel's existence (not the -best- solution, agreed) and how the result of the pre-Tram experiment was not expected nor desired by the original UO Team.
If you are unaware of the facts I'm referring to, then you can only be relying on gibberish and hearsay to further push your issue.
Unless you had the privelege to listen in on private EA talks back then, and therefor know that they were blatantly lying to us about the reasons they put forth the resources to develop Trammel and split the UO into multi-rulesets, then you cannot be talking sense; ~sense, in relation to what the EA/UO mindset was that considered it a necessity to fix Felucca (& create Trammel as their solution).
You should also be well-aware that when they moved from Austin to Cali (before moving to VA), they somehow lost all of their backups and documented history.. kind of a neat 'gesture' if you want a game to continually evolve rather than get stuck in one instance of time, heh.

 

[phantus]

That stuff was small crap, and it was happening since the beginning of the game. Only wusses and carebears were the ones who complained about that stuff. The rest of us just dealt with it and learned to work around it, or fought through it.

d00ds and jerks were always around. It didnt just magically start when the game got popular. And even then, they werent the majority.

As for the smelting stealing, that was more small potatoes crap that happened once in a while. Most people just chucked explosion pots at the forge when they suspected it was happening or casted reveal, exposed the punk, then killed him or drove him off. Simple solution. All it took was for people to use their heads and the answers to the problems revealed themselves.

I was there too. The only time I saw any form of decline in honor or decent players was after trammel. Then you got the mouthy teens, the kill stealers, more cheaters, more exploiters, etc etc etc, because there was no form of retribution anymore to keep the little skid marks in check. The ******* mentality raged after Trammel.

Believe me, the threat of getting PK'd for being an ass was the best enforcer of honor and decency.

*yawns*

You're wrong and I lost interest. Good luck with Darkfall tiny.

 

[the 4th man]

I, for one, never left.....no other game offers what UO offers.
Cheating exists in all games, not to mention real life.

Free shards are full because people, kids or adults will get what they want for free before paying for it, history has proven that.

Trammel, the age old arguement did not ruin UO. Trammel existed in the NES games ong before UO online ever existed.....player evolution is what's ruining game play, in the old fashioned sense.

Todays players are kids, mostly. Values are lost, and getting the goods with the least amount of trouble, is what they know.

If you want the old UO, good luck, you can't change the new player base in todays world....

I roll with the punches and make the best of it. I will stop playing the day they pull the plug, but I will never be known as a quitter.

later

 

[Clair]

No, Trammel didnt have to be. Its called, those would couldnt handle getting PK'd should have left the game or learned to deal with it and survive. You got PK'd, boo hoo. Run to town, rez, re-gear, then hunt down the SOB who killed you, cut off his head, then lock it down on the front steps of your house. I got PK'd plenty when I was a newbie. But at least I had the brains to NOT GO BACK TO MY BODY, because logic told me, gee, that person probably picked the corpse clean, best to just forget about it and get some new stuff.

Your wife got rez killed by a red? The only way that could have happened is if she rezed outside of town near the PK OR she was stupid enough to let the red rez her then kill her over again. Otherwise, she would have ran back to town and rezed there where she would have been safe. I mean, for F'ks sake, it was freak'n' Moonglow! The town wasn't that far away!

And heres a little blast from the past for you, Reds couldnt enter town and if anyone attacked her there, the guards would have killed them. And PS, running back to your corpse and getting killed by it again isnt getting rez killed, its called your dumb noob ass was stupid enough to think that a PK would leave anything on it to retrieve. So obviously you have no idea of what rez killing was or you're just lying and exagerating in general to justify the carebearization of UO.

There was law enforcement. I couldnt count how many times I went PK hunting with a group of Anti's that lived near me. As a matter of fact, there were a good number of anti PK guilds around who went to dungeons for the sole purpose of killing Reds. It was good fame and karma gains, plus the gold didnt hurt none either.

Its players like you who need their hand held for everything that ruined UO.

Where in my post did I say I needed my hand held? Did I give you any indication that I could not take care of myself? Wake up! The problem was that people felt like they were being taken advantage of, and they were right to feel that way. This game is a business. Letting all those people who did not want to deal with the perverts who got off on taking advantage of others leave the game would have been a stupid business decision. Most players don't want to deal with PKs. They choose not to PvP. That is why Fel is dead. I go to Fel sometimes do so with the knowledge that I might die. It is my choice. In the old days, if one played UO, there was no choice. The great thing about UO is tha ability to choose how you want to play the game. You seem to be saying that everyone should have to deal with PvP or not play UO. That game would be dead already.

As far as your comments about res killing, she came back to her body because it was eaiser to not have to go buy new tools. The only reason for res killing her was the sick thrill of it. I think it is unethical to expose people to that sort of treatment without their concent.

 

[Kiminality]

Funny, and yet, so sad...

Here's the thing.
Just about every game that features player interaction, these days, puts restrictions on what players can do to other players. Minimizing the negative, or uninvited interactions is important.
You can PvP with people that want to PvP, to your heart's content. But allowing you to force your PvP on unwilling players is seldom going to end well.
Yes, you may cite the non-PvPers who haven't rage-quit, or whatever, after being PKed. But they're people who accept PvP, and are not the majority.

Consider a restaurant, in which your PK is the chef. He likes to do things his way, and mess with the peoples' dinners. In this example, he spices up the arrabiata.
There are those that would enjoy the meal, anyway. Perhaps they enjoy the extra spice, or perhaps they consider it an acceptable factor in their meal.
Then, there are those aren't pleased with their arrabiata resembling battery acid. They paid for their meal, and can't enjoy it, because of the chef's habit of messing with the recipes.

You might consider Trammel an amatriciana dish, more agreeing with most peoples tastes.
You may like the spicy dishes, but the devs gave everyone else a menu to choose from.

 

[Canucklehead73]

Well I always have to say my spiel in these threads, even tho it is beating a dead horse, I cannot help point out some things I see in the posts.

First off I played way back when before trammel, liked it alot, had its pros and cons. Just like todays has its pros and cons, but I like UO today as well. For the most part I notice people posting about issues they do not like, and imho grasp at straws (the past), in an attempt to provide answers for thier issues.

I never had too many issues with PK's, thieves were simply annoying and who likes to be annoyed eh? But my one personal dislike with pre-tram was simply the inabilty to say ok, had enough PvP/fighting for tonight I want to craft/gather/explore/test/socialize... No such luck pre-tram, if someone wanted to PvP you had to PvP... It was one gamestyle being able to force everyone else to conform to thier style or do not play tonight.

Sure it's a MMPOG, I get that we have to interact, but after a while when it was more often than not, fight fight fight, the game becomes one-sided and boring... I mean why even have mundane skills like crafting? if all the pre-tram players want to do is PvP/steal/PK? (in a pre-tram world) It might as well be a simple FP shooter which can be fun but is what it is.

Now don't get me wrong and try to put words in my mouth... I wont exagerate and say it was ALWAYS PvP when we left town, and PK's were not everywhere. Imho reds were pretty rare from my experience.

But the simple fact was that at anytime, if someone wanted to mess with you, you had to deal with it on THIER level... (PvP)

To understand my point imagine if I could walk up to you (a PvP player) pull out my spool of thread... and you HAVE to craft a leather tunic or leave the area. Imagine the fun we would have if at ANY time, ANY where, I could make you craft with me, you either had to out craft me, craft with me for as long as I wanted to craft against you, or you go to a town for a respite or log off...

I know it's an odd analogy, but it is one you have to accept if you want to understand what your asking eveyone else to do, wear someone else's shoes for a day so to speak.

That was why pre-tram sucked imho... People like control! Look how pissed off all the pre-tram proponents get after they cannot have the maximum control they want!

So the dev's decided to make a change... Was trammel right? I'm not sure it was or wasn't, but they decided to give players some control over thier gameplay.

As for UO now... Well it has it's problems, items, insurance... Too many super items make it impossible for new players to make an impact, making them quit, no point in denying it, I've seen it happen too too many times. Insurance ruins the crafter system and economy imo, but keeps people playing which they like alot..

But even in today's UO, any group of players can join a guild, make an agreement to play with certain items/weapons, play in trammel so no prodo players can attack with arty suits, and have all the no holes barred free for all PvP PK action they want... And since they are so skilled in PvP they can enter fel to gather powerscrolls for an even greater challenge/danger they love so much.

Sure players would cheat and be buttheads, but the pre-tram players can handle anything right? Nothing beats them down right?

But even more telling is looking a the gaming leaders, WoW in particular, they have so many subs UO cannot help but try to emulate them, they are after all trying to make money! And WoW! is WoW making money!!! Now ask yourself... why is WoW so popular? Do they have safe areas to PvM? Do they have areas designed for PvP? Do they allow player to lose all thier gear when they die? Are thier graphics good? What is the new player experience like?

Does UO??? What are the differences?

Therin lies the answers as to why/if UO is failing to keep/gain subscriptions.

But from what I can see, and I may be an oddball , but it sure as heck is NOT Trammel imho.

peace!

 

[Der Rock]

Well I always have to say my spiel in these threads, even tho it is beating a dead horse, I cannot help point out some things I see in the posts.

I never had too many issues with PK's, thieves were simply annoying and who likes to be annoyed eh? But my one personal dislike with pre-tram was simply the inabilty to say ok, had enough PvP/fighting for tonight I want to craft/gather/explore/test/socialize... No such luck pre-tram, if someone wanted to PvP you had to PvP... It was one gamestyle being able to force everyone else to conform to thier style or do not play tonight.

But the simple fact was that at anytime, if someone wanted to mess with you, you had to deal with it on THIER level... (PvP)

But even in today's UO, any group of players can join a guild, make an agreement to play with certain items/weapons, play in trammel so no prodo players can attack with arty suits, and have all the no holes barred free for all PvP PK action they want... And since they are so skilled in PvP they can enter fel to gather powerscrolls for an even greater challenge/danger they love so much.

But even more telling is looking a the gaming leaders, WoW in particular, they have so many subs UO cannot help but try to emulate them, they are after all trying to make money! And WoW! is WoW making money!!! Now ask yourself... why is WoW so popular? Do they have safe areas to PvM? Do they have areas designed for PvP? Do they allow player to lose all thier gear when they die? Are thier graphics good? What is the new player experience like?


peace!

good post, your arguments are 100% correct.
UO was the first, but they missed the point to tie the masses to the game.
WoW did it.(even if WoW didn´t have the potential UO has)

the most,no the majority of people want to PLAY such games,they dont like to be the
rabbit of the predator permanent.
the birth of trammel was only halvebaked done.
after this, the "field-war" turns in a war of words.
permanent insulting of trammel player (the fast growing part of uo player) drove them away over time.
the poor attempts of the dev´s to please the handfull of left fell only players made the situation only worsen.and to let the things slide,particularly the cheater/scripter part
made the rest.
i am convinced 100% that if the dev´s would no longer try to driving the majority of players
in the ambush of a very small minority ,UO would be one of the top 10 of mmo-games


no need for two sides , make one land, but with faction,guild and party war only !
if the dev´s would do this,including of a 1 WORKING new KR/SA client only,
i prognosing 500 000 player in 12 month after release.

i also prognose, if UO dont go this way, a other developer-team will do it, and if it is done right, they can beat WoW

 

[Antonio Cataneo]

The simple fact is, EVERYONE had their place in the old UO. .

YES, that's exactly the reason uo was great

 

[a drunk elf]

I played UO since 1998. I witnessed all the changes.

Production Shards are full of people who have no need to SPEAK to one another anymore (zero interaction).

Siege Perilous is OKAY, but the population is way too small.

I currently have ZERO open UO accounts. Give us a brand new pre-AOS and pre-Trammel shard and I will open a UO account tomorrow.

 

[BloodstoneGL]

I played UO since 1998. I witnessed all the changes.

Production Shards are full of people who have no need to SPEAK to one another anymore (zero interaction).

Siege Perilous is OKAY, but the population is way too small.

I currently have ZERO open UO accounts. Give us a brand new pre-AOS and pre-Trammel shard and I will open a UO account tomorrow.

I personally have atleast 100+ people on my ICQ list that would come back in a heat beat and they are all from one shard. If they made a pre-AoS (reguardless of what time frame) it would pull more than enough people back to it to fund the resources. And best of all is once it is up and running they never have to update it again. JUST GIVE IT TO US AND LEAVE IT ALONE.

I also don't see any reason to have an argument against a Classic shard. it's not like we are asking for them to revert all of UO. We are just asking for a small slice. Think of it this way, with all the old players coming back and bringing friends with them, it'll line EA's pockets even more to keep the game going.

 

[HD2300]

the most,no the majority of people want to PLAY such games,they dont like to be the rabbit of the predator permanent.
...
the poor attempts of the dev´s to please the handfull of left fell only players made the situation only worsen.and to let the things slide,particularly the cheater/scripter part
made the rest.
i am convinced 100% that if the dev´s would no longer try to driving the majority of players
in the ambush of a very small minority ,UO would be one of the top 10 of mmo-games
...
if the dev´s would do this,including of a 1 WORKING new KR/SA client only,
i prognosing 500 000 player in 12 month after release.

Which is why there should be a Tram PvE only shard. "People, when forced to play the role of 'sheep' or 'stupid newbie', will simply leave."

So either UO continues to fight for market share with AoC, WAR and soon Darkfall in a small niche market, or they go for the massive PvE market. Even if UO only gets 2.5% market share of the PvE market, thats 500000 subscribers. WAR is having problems now retaining subscribers, because it is PvP. They key to UO's long term success is Tram PvE only shards.

More PvMers = More PvPers = More Fun

 

[Nexus]

I never said UO is dead because all the PvP'ers left, I'm saying its dead because its just like every other MMORPG now, except with ****ty graphics. People played UO because it was one of a kind, now its. . . not.

And I hear people reported this thread saying I'm posting pics from a free shard. . .Actually, that is Pacific in 2002. I guess some people dont remember a UO without uber suits and colors????

UO hasn't changed as much as I keep hearing people whine about...yes, it's more item based, yes The Facet Rule sets have changed things...but the core elements are and have always been there.


Maybe the players need to try and remember why they started playing UO to begin with....and really look to see if it's still there.

Instead of whining about "loss of Community" how bout you get up and go and do something yourselves to encourage community....

Instead of saying how there's no new people coming to Fel...How about the PvP crowd starts a regular meet up where they give lessons on PvP that don't include standing over someone's ghost shouting about what they did with thier victims mother and a goat last night.....

It might Be EA's game but it's our communities inside it..why do we keep turning to them to "fix it" when it's us that has been letting it down all along.

 

[Wakiza]

What up Shaun, nice pics... i was at them fights hehe.

Would be nice if things were still like that. Maybe they should have spilt the servers... half of them for pvp servers, half pvm. Dunno. Anyway, its always easier to see things better in hindsight.

It is what it is.

 

[a drunk elf]

They FORCED Trammel onto every shard when it was introduced. Overnight, the game was changed forever.

They should have just created 2 or 3 NEW SHARDS with the Trammel ruleset.

It is too late to change that now.

We cannot ask EA/Mythic to change any of the existing shards, but we CAN ask them to create a NEW PRE-TRAMMEL shard.

 

[spoonyd]

They FORCED Trammel onto every shard when it was introduced. Overnight, the game was changed forever.

They should have just created 2 or 3 NEW SHARDS with the Trammel ruleset.

It is too late to change that now.

We cannot ask EA/Mythic to change any of the existing shards, but we CAN ask them to create a NEW PRE-TRAMMEL shard.

If you wanna play pre trammel, there's still SP to look at. I mean I was around during the hay day too but I really don't think they plan to create any new shards. They don't wanna run the ones that are up now.

 

[God_Majere]

people play free shards because they are F R E E