Greater Dragon Changes After Publish 56!?!

[Lady Kiara]

I was listening to the Town Hall Meeting and what really peaked my interest was when a dev him self said "The Greater Dragon Hit's To Hard" "Nothing Like Getting Hit With 80 Points of Damage in PVP In One Shot" He went on to say something about how it wasn't the plan for Greater Dragons to be used for pvp Or something along that line...And that tamers found a way to use the Greater Dragon just for that purpose. No changes to the dragon is coming in pubish 56 beside you can't hide and attack at the same time.

Should the Greater Dragon Be Nerfed or should they just not be aloud in fel?

Also If you Have Not Heard All Ready....There will be no Holloween shard this year there just isn't enough time....

just trick or treats on reg shards....

 

[kelmo]

I was listening to the Town Hall Meeting and what really peaked my interest was when a dev him self said "The Greater Dragon Hit's To Hard" "Nothing Like Getting Hit With 80 Points of Damage in PVP In One Shot" He went on to say something about how it wasn't the plan for Greater Dragons to be used for pvp Or something along that line...And that tamers found a way to use the Greater Dragon just for that purpose. No changes to the dragon is coming in pubish 56 beside you can't hide and attack at the same time.

Should the Greater Dragon Be Nerfed or should they just not be aloud in fel?

Also If you Have Not Heard All Ready....There will be no Holloween shard this year there just isn't enough time....

just trick or treats on reg shards....

As long as Greater Dragons, one of the most fearsome creatures known, are mere pets on Siege, every day is Halloween. We are losing folks in droves.

Please do not dismiss this unless you play where I do. Either be a tamer on Siege or try to fight one. I might listen then.

 

[Xenobia]

I say don't nerf em...just keep em away from PVPers (out of Fel) I quite love my greater dragon to do the harder things like Lady Mil and stuff like that. It would be sad to give us something like that and then snatch it right back

 

[Lady Kiara]

As long as Greater Dragons, one of the most fearsome creatures known, are mere pets on Siege, every day is Halloween. We are losing folks in droves.

Please do not dismiss this unless you play where I do. Either be a tamer on Siege or try to fight one. I might listen then.

Couldn't there be away to not alow them to attack Players Only non players...

 

[kelmo]

Couldn't there be away to not alow them to attack Players Only non players...

I don't know. I do know every tamer wants to keep them. That includes the fighter tamers on Siege. I hope the no stealth rule will do some good.

I have been on Siege for years. I have not seen people bailing like this since AOS hit Siege. It just is not fun, unless you are the tamer.

I have stopped even trying to PvP. The only way to beat the tamer is a gank. Ganks bring more tamers. More tamers bring more gank.

There is certainly more to it. Vent, etc.. When a bunch of greater dragons walk on to the field. Who ever has the most dragons wins. End of story.

 

[Lady Kiara]

I don't know. I do know every tamer wants to keep them. That includes the fighter tamers on Siege. I hope the no stealth rule will do some good.

I have been on Siege for years. I have not seen people bailing like this since AOS hit Siege. It just is not fun, unless you are the tamer.

I have stopped even trying to PvP. The only way to beat the tamer is a gank. Ganks bring more tamers. More tamers bring more gank.

There is certainly more to it. Vent, etc.. When a bunch of greater dragons walk on to the field. Who ever has the most dragons wins. End of story.

I hear ya...and it is sad ,plus you should be able to discord them....even the playing field a little

 

[kelmo]

We have tried it all. Templates and characters just work differntly. We do not have god armor. When we die, we lose almost everything. That is how we like it, but those dragons chewing on our heads...

Well, take a look at the Siege forums. On our shard every person is missed...

 

[Hunters' Moon]

Remember when an axer could one-hit kill using double strike because the damage would be off the scale(and how quickly it was nerfed)? Tamers having the g-dragon is very much the same but it seems the Devs favor the tamer template and they are not in as much of a rush to fix this overpoweredness.It is good to see,though,that the devs are wising up and finally doing something about this imbalance. Good job devs--better late than never I guess.

 

[Maplestone]

*prepares to demonstrate my complete and utter ignorance*

Why are pets not limited to the same damage cap as any other weapon in PvP? Or are the achieving that damage by combos?

 

[Xenobia]

*prepares to demonstrate my complete and utter ignorance*

Why are pets not limited to the same damage cap as any other weapon in PvP? Or are the achieving that damage by combos?

Because dragons are stronger

I think Lady Kiara is right in that they shouldnt be able to attack actual players. There are some things in the game that you just need to have that tough dragon to take down because getting 20 people to go with you to doom or Lady Mil or wherever it is you want to play, is just not an option. Plus it gives you a chance to take a few guildies out and do something large by yourselves. I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[Maplestone]

You're making me think that I'm not challenging my GD sufficiently.

 

[Xenobia]

You're making me think that I'm not challenging my GD sufficiently.

I was just teasing you but seriously, I hope they don't nerf them because they come in soooooooo handy at the tougher places like dreadhorn and things like that.

 

[Anakena]

We have tried it all. Templates and characters just work differntly. We do not have god armor. When we die, we lose almost everything. That is how we like it, but those dragons chewing on our heads...

Well, take a look at the Siege forums. On our shard every person is missed...

I think a lot of issues on Siege could be solved by giving 60 base elemental resists from legendary resist magic.

Right now Siege players have to play in a system basically balanced for production shards where 60/70 resists is the norm for PvPing. A flame strike or firebreath is consequently a lot more devastating on Siege, especially since proplr do not run there with 150 HP.

 

[5% Luck]

Any self respecting PvP player knows how to dismantel anyone on foot. Truly using a greater in PvP is a bad tactic. Now when it comes to raiding or champ spawns thats is difernt and as far as im concerned it is no holds bared. But at the yew gate any tamer weilding a 5 sloter with such a low attack realy deserves to die.

My personal choice is the rune/bake combo it kills much faster than a greater and still leaves me on foot. 2 casters is better than one. But still being on foot to start is the main idea.

If these tamers are using ninjitsu to run mounted maybe make that count as a follower but to nerf the dragon thats just bad policy.

between that and the pet ball changes it relay shouldnt be a problem!

 

[Lefty]

Over the years there have been tons of nerfs and balancing for both dexers and mages. The last pvp publish nailed the coffin on a lot of gimp templates, but also diversity. However what made the real difference overall was putting in damage caps.

So it seems logical to put a pvp damage cap on pets, max 35 vs 70 resist and adjust their breath attacks and specials.

 

[Wenchkin]

I must admit I cringed at the lack of news regarding any balancing of tamers. I might be a tamer, but I'm not selfish enough to want that power at the expense of others' enjoyment in PvP, PvM or wherever. I wish the devs would hurry up and say what they're planning in the ways of balance and when it'll be done. Just makes tamers less popular with every allowance they make for us.

I don't use greaters in PvP (or much in PvM tbh), however, I would at least like to be able to use a greater in self defense if I was out PvMing with it in Fel. Making a pet unable to attack players under any circumstances isn't the best solution IMO. What if players attack the dragon when it's killing spawn? Will greaters be marked as invulnerable (please no! No tamer gold farming bots please ) or killable without being able to do damage to a player? I'm not sure that sounds like a great idea...

How about, the greater can't be set on players unless the tamer or pet is attacked first? Then the only PvP taking place is initiated by another player who, by starting the fight, signals his understanding that a greater dragon is going to be involved. Then if you don't want to fight the pet, you don't have to.

Wenchy

 

[Sweeney]

I've looked at some open-source freeshard UO server code, and while it is surely not exactly like the actual UO server code.. it is clear that limiting GD-vs-PC damage is very simple to implement, less than 4 lines. While GDs are a problem all around, it is PvP where they seem to have the greatest advantage.

 

[Kat]

What ever the solution is, they better get to it quickly! Players are indeed leaving in droves for other games.

If nothing else, reduce the 80 pt damage and reduce their casting ability to that which a player can cast... 3+ screens for any magic casting pet is ridiculous!

 

[Skwiz]

I think a lot of issues on Siege could be solved by giving 60 base elemental resists from legendary resist magic.

Right now Siege players have to play in a system basically balanced for production shards where 60/70 resists is the norm for PvPing. A flame strike or firebreath is consequently a lot more devastating on Siege, especially since proplr do not run there with 150 HP.

When i run good suits it looks something like this, (On siege)
40%LMC | 50% DCI | 35+ EP | 70 70 60 65 65 < Lowest) 115+ HP
And still dragons bite for 35+ With bleed and 60+ (More like 70+) With fireballs. The base resists arnt a problem its that ive seen dragons fireball for 90s aginst 60 fireresist. Some people will call this bull****.. but honestly the highest ive seen done via fireball has been 94. Just need to cap Firebreath at 35 with no basis on resist what so ever.

What ever the solution is, they better get to it quickly! Players are indeed leaving in droves for other games.

If nothing else, reduce the 80 pt damage and reduce their casting ability to that which a player can cast... 3+ screens for any magic casting pet is ridiculous!

The problem with the huge range is.. pets casting is strange.. they cast spell but do not drop it like players do.. Meaning most of the time alot of their spells are delayed.. (Not just explo) So they are casting the spell on you while you are in their range but by the time its hitting you you are few screens off. The firebreath is the worst example of this.. Its got a huge delay from when the dragon *Casts* it.. and when it actually drops the ability, It is casting the spell and targeting you at the same time, but by the time the spell is ready you are a few screen away, But since it has already targeted you and casted the spell.. it still launches the firebreath.. Which is why we see fireballs from 2+ Screens away.

Also.. ive been playing war instead of uo (I played siege) On war i cant get all killed or dismounted and ganked lol..

 

[WWGRD?]

I don't know. I do know every tamer wants to keep them.

No, they don't. This tamer would prefer if they were all completely deleted off every server. I've seen firsthand their power in pvp and pvm and its way off balance.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

As long as Greater Dragons, one of the most fearsome creatures known, are mere pets on Siege, every day is Halloween. We are losing folks in droves.

Please do not dismiss this unless you play where I do. Either be a tamer on Siege or try to fight one. I might listen then.

And why shouldn't this be dismissed as long as you don't ... well we shall leave what your doing unsaid ..... raise the same issue with the 1 hit kill of a Miner/LJ/Tradeskiller?

It isn't like your advocating for ... equal opportunity here now is it.

More like you are advocating for the preservation of being able to gank the Miner/LJ/Tradeskiller isn't it.

 

[Nexus]

Couldn't there be away to not alow them to attack Players Only non players...

Better solution would be to cap damage based on if the target is a player or not. PvP is supposed to have damage caps from player to player why can't Pet to Player have caps put in place also.....

 

[Lady Kiara]

You're making me think that I'm not challenging my GD sufficiently.

No Harm Ment here but HOW else to say this.......If your just using your GD to Kill players, then yes your not challenging it....And you could lose the Creature all together.Because People will start complaining Worse then they already are...then the dragon will go pufff because they would rather lose a creature(or nerf worse then a dog) then lose 50 accounts...and I for one love my GD For the Harder things in UO....

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

No Harm Ment here but HOW else to say this.......If your just using your GD to Kill players, then yes your not challenging it....And you could lose the Creature all together.Because People will start complaining Worse then they already are...then the dragon will go pufff because they would rather lose a creature(or nerf worse then a dog) then lose 50 accounts...and I for one love my GD For the Harder things in UO....

No offense

Your saying that 50 SP accounts are worth more than the thousands of accounts on a NON SP server?

Well that is just down right illuminating. I for one am glad to know the NON SP accounts are of such little value to EA/M. It isn't like the posters on this board won't agree with you. They all pretty much believe EA/M doesn't care about them anyway and your not only confirming that, your telling them why.

 

[Maplestone]

If your just using your GD to Kill players, then yes your not challenging it

Rest assured, no dragon in my care will ever bring harm to a player character.

 

[Xenobia]

Rest assured, no dragon in my care will ever bring harm to a player character.

Mine either as I don't PVP AT ALL lol but Lady Kiara has such valid points and it would SO suck to nerf the GD's to the point that we might as well not even bother taming them. I use mine at Lady Mil and Dreadhorn and Doom. They are wonderful! HOWEVER, I STILL have not gotten one single artifact using it so the balance there is not an issue IMHO. I just think maybe they should not be allowed to go to Fel. Or like someone else posted, don't let them attack players unless they are attacked first.

 

[Xenobia]

And one other thing...most archers and warriors search us out when going to do these types of things (Lady Mil, Dreadhorn) to help them. It's a lot of fun!

 

[Beefybone]

Greater Dragons need beaten hard with the nerf stick. Their addition was one of the most idiotic moves I've seen out of the developers in quite some time.

 

[Rix/\]

I have a tamer with a greater dragon and I love it for tanking bosses/champs but in PVP I think it's lame to use them since players damage has a lower cap with pvp vs pvm pets also should have damage caps lowered when it comes to pvp. I also wonder that if they want to allow pvp tamers why can't there be pvp bards? be able to discord/calm players provo the pets back on their owners

 

[Tom_Builder]

Why not just limit how much damage the greater dragons do to another person. That would make the pvp'ers happy and still leave the pvm's the option to use the dragons for highend bosses. I remember the AoS nerf on dragons, it made them useless. I would hate to see dragons nerfed for pvm again.

 

[Lord Drakelord]

just trick or treats on reg shards....

??? When will that be?

 

[5% Luck]

How about some Bard Love here. Instead of the message the is to loyal to its master make it skill based. Lets say base it on the tamers control chance vs the music/provocation. So my control chance at 110/110 is ???(65%) a 120/120 bard has a 45% chance to provoke the G-dragon on its master. Of course this can be a part of the fix bards in pvp thing.

 

[5% Luck]

Why not just limit how much damage the greater dragons do to another person. That would make the pvp'ers happy and still leave the pvm's the option to use the dragons for highend bosses. I remember the AoS nerf on dragons, it made them useless. I would hate to see dragons nerfed for pvm again.

This would ruin the taming process!

Maybe increase the control difficulty of pets on players leaving the tamer needing to feed a pet or use something umm "lesser".

 

[Wilde1]

I think they should all be forced to be very extremely quiet in fel, but in tram they can be as loud as they want.

 

[Flutter]

Just make it so greater dragons wont attack PC's.
We already have it so pets wont attack golems... some similar message would be fine.

 

[Uvtha]

I don't know. I do know every tamer wants to keep them.

I don't. I think they were a terrible idea. I always did.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

id rather them not be tameable...

whats so bad about owning a regular dragon.

Elder Dragons just dont seem like something to me that would give them selves to a master.

 

[JC the Builder]

I don't understand this whole hide and attack fix that is coming. You get revealed already if you try to command a pet while hidden.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

I don't understand this whole hide and attack fix that is coming. You get revealed already if you try to command a pet while hidden.

even if you say all kill then hide, and target a passerby later?

 

[JC the Builder]

even if you say all kill then hide, and target a passerby later?

I just told my summon to kill and then hid. The target cursor disappeared.

 

[Maplestone]

*continues sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong*

Perhaps greater dragons chewing on humans and elves should develop a taste for it (if commanded to attack a player character, it takes a huge hit to loyalty on each swing).

Combined with capping damage while controlled, could limit the usefulness of dragons to being a "shock and awe" one-use weapon useful to throw against well-fortified choak points?

 

[Draxous]

I don't understand this whole hide and attack fix that is coming. You get revealed already if you try to command a pet while hidden.

lore, taming, vet, magery (or wrestling,) ninja, hide, stealth

You tell the pet to all guard you... if you hide, you can just go into war mode and double click any player/target you want the dragon to kill.

You will not be revealed.

On siege... we fight tamers abusing this allllll the time. Basically the WHOLE fight... you see just a greater dragon walking around on screen. Then the dragon attacks you and you wind up fighting the dragon without ever seeing the tamer at all.

Honestly, a HUGE problem is also hiding and stealth. Being able to use stealth instantly after you hide has caused the most problems. People abuse that skill as often as they possibly can. A fight doesnt go the way they want to... smoke bomb and stealth off... completely frustration fighting someone that the second the tables turn they are off and there is nothing you can do about it.

Even if you run detect hidden... and someone is stealthing around. You SOMEHOW figure out where they are and you detect that player and then they instantly disappear and don't have to wait any time to start stealthing off... so you just lost your target.

It's great the way that works...

 

[Lady Kiara]

??? When will that be?

Hopefully before Xmas

 

[Arrgh]

Better solution would be to cap damage based on if the target is a player or not. PvP is supposed to have damage caps from player to player why can't Pet to Player have caps put in place also.....

I have to agree, don't let frickin PvP screw up yet another "fun" aspect of the game. Cap the drags in Pvp combat only...getting sick of this game catering to PvPers.

 

[Anakena]

even if you say all kill then hide, and target a passerby later?

Just have hiding cancelling the target cursor then.

 

[Fink]

You could have it work the same as for attacking clockwork creatures..

"Your pet refuses to attack that creature" (in this case, another player)

But you can work around that by flagging on someone while guarded by the pet, so that would have to be fixed. Maybe have it so Greater Dragons don't attack players unless directly attacked by them. I wonder if that's possible.

Eh.. something like that.

Basically remove their threat from PvP in a way that lets the PvMers continue as they are. Many a nerf has created massive animosity between the PvM and PvP communities because it affected both playstyles to fix one or the other.

 

[Wenchkin]

I hope it is possible to have a greater useable for defense, otherwise taking one for a bit of PvM in Fel would, for me, make them more of a liability than anything. I don't want to use them for normal PvP, but if I'm attacked while hunting with one, it'd be a bit daft if it just stood there and let folk kill it

Wenchy

 

[Tina Small]

I wonder how many people reading this thread have confidence that the "cure" implemented for this situation will actually be an improvement and won't just cause other groups of players to quit.

As much as I enjoy my greater dragons, I'm almost ready to just give them up completely at the thought of how badly certain game mechanics and other non-tamer templates could be affected trying to fix this situation.

Edited to add: If and when the development team comes up with solutions for the two issues of tamers being able to "attack" while staying hidden and scaling back greater dragon damage for PvP and/or PvM, I would really like to see them put the changes on TC for at least two weeks. I would also like to see the developers actually encourage people to go on TC to try the changes and then SHOW UP on TC themselves and get involved and also get on Stratics and other forums and actively solicit feedback. Don't just tell us you changed something and then walk away. If you want our feedback, actually show up and act like you're reading it, and understanding it.