My point of view.

[Lore Master]

To those who feel that Drawves should not be a playable race or in the game because just about every other game has them well originality is not always the best course of action sure it is a lot of the time but not always.

• First of all the ultima games had Drawves as a playable race before most of the other games that have Drawves ever existed. most games with Drawves are doing rather well a few are more successful then UO is.

• Having a Dwarf race can only make UO a more enjoyable and more popular game then it is now variety is the spice of life. my feeling is if you don't want to be a Dwarf then don't be one but let those players like me who want to have a Dwarf have a Dwarf as a playable character if they want to.

• Seriously has any game ever lost popularity because they have a Dwarf race i don't think so in fact i think they gained some popularity in part because they have a Dwarf race.

• I am also for all the other races players mentioned before on many post and more even if they become a playable race before Dwarfs becomes a playable race if ever.

One thing i wonder about how come uo does not have goblins i think they would make great spawn and a great playable race too. I figure making this a second post is for the best in this case instead of just responding to my last post on a Dwarf race.

 

[Uvtha]

I'm sure I made my views aparant in the other dwarf thread...but oh well.

Ultima did have dwarves long ago, but something people always tend to ignore is the fact that they were only in the first 2, when garriot has said he considers 3 to the the first "Ultima" game he made, and the other were more about learning how to make games. The fact that he purposefully removed dwarves, elves, bobbits, and whatnot from the game should make a statment.

Having a dwarf race won't draw in players (make UO more popular) just like elves did nothing to bring players in. I will bet 100 bucks that there are no more than 10 dwarf extremists (which I think is generous) who say "I would play UO, it seems like a great game, but no dwarves... sorry I'll pass! Back to WOW!". Conversely it probably won't drive away many players either. Although I know that the more stuff they just stip out of other games (races, monsters, items, ideas, game concepts) the more I get annoyed with the lack of creativity and direction. I doubt I'm alone on that score.

And anyway it seems pretty unlikely that dwarved will be added into UO at this point. Gargoyles seem to be occupying a lot of dwarf "territory" in SA. Crafters, living under ground, physically strong, etc...

I do however think that we should have some kind of body editor for character creation (in the KR client anyway) so that people could look like dwarves if they care to, and rp it up.

As for goblins...again why? Theres not some kind of special niche they would fill, just like commonly protryaed fantasy dwarves wont have one once Gargs appear. It's just another attempt to make everything standard and more easily crammed into common fantasy architypes, which I for one, am borred of, and at very least see no reason to propigate. There are enough sources of it out there.
Anyway the yomotsu race are more or less goblins. I think thats good enough.

 

[Lore Master]

I'm sure I made my views aparant in the other dwarf thread...but oh well.

Ultima did have dwarves long ago, but something people always tend to ignore is the fact that they were only in the first 2, when garriot has said he considers 3 to the the first "Ultima" game he made, and the other were more about learning how to make games. The fact that he purposefully removed dwarves, elves, bobbits, and whatnot from the game should make a statment.

Having a dwarf race won't draw in players (make UO more popular) just like elves did nothing to bring players in. I will bet 100 bucks that there are no more than 10 dwarf extremists (which I think is generous) who say "I would play UO, it seems like a great game, but no dwarves... sorry I'll pass! Back to WOW!". Conversely it probably won't drive away many players either. Although I know that the more stuff they just stip out of other games (races, monsters, items, ideas, game concepts) the more I get annoyed with the lack of creativity and direction. I doubt I'm alone on that score.

And anyway it seems pretty unlikely that dwarved will be added into UO at this point. Gargoyles seem to be occupying a lot of dwarf "territory" in SA. Crafters, living under ground, physically strong, etc...

I do however think that we should have some kind of body editor for character creation (in the KR client anyway) so that people could look like dwarves if they care to, and rp it up.

As for goblins...again why? Theres not some kind of special niche they would fill, just like commonly protryaed fantasy dwarves wont have one once Gargs appear. It's just another attempt to make everything standard and more easily crammed into common fantasy architypes, which I for one, am borred of, and at very least see no reason to propigate. There are enough sources of it out there.
Anyway the yomotsu race are more or less goblins. I think thats good enough.

Your wrong Ultima 3 had 5 races as follows Humans, Dwarves, Elves, Bobbits, and Fuzzies only Ultima 3 had Fuzzies . there are a lot more then 10 Dwarf extremists most have not had a say because most are not on this or any UO forum. why Goblins you ask well there cool and like i said would offer more variety to the game. just because i want races that are in other games does not mean that UO should not also have some UO specific only races too.

 

[Aran]

<IMG-facepalm.jpg>

 

[Tycolby]

<IMG-facepalm.jpg>

Copy and paste over and over on post above this one.

 

[It Lives]

No dwarfs. If you feel the need to rp a dwarf place a stool sit on it, remove wah la! your little.

 

[Uvtha]

Your wrong Ultima 3 had 5 races as follows Humans, Dwarves, Elves, Bobbits, and Fuzzies only Ultima 3 had Fuzzies . there are a lot more then 10 Dwarf extremists most have not had a say because most are not on this or any UO forum. why Goblins you ask well there cool and like i said would offer more variety to the game. just because i want races that are in other games does not mean that UO should not also have some UO specific only races too.

I'll be honest I only know what ive read about those games, I never played them, but never the less dwarfs bobbits and fuzzies (which i would have less of an issue with than dwarfs) WERE eventually phased out.

And my point about dwarf extremists was that player races are not a big deciding factor in game play. People said the same thing about elves, that elves (a vastly more popular fantasy race than dwarfs) would bring people into the game, or that their absence was keeping people away, which I contended was absurd, and it as it turns out I was right. The addition of elves did nothing noticeable for UO's subs. I didn't imply that there were not dwarf extremists, but rather that there are few, and that no one is going to NOT play a game they otherwise find appealing simply because they aren't able to play a dwarf.

As for variety, I for one think there should be a point for it. Like I said the Yomotsu race are more or less goblins. Why add in goblins when we already have them. Why add in dwarfs when Gargs will do what dwarfs do in other games/worlds. Why add in something that other games have, when they are already represented by a more unique version? Thats just me.

 

[Lore Master]

I'll be honest I only know what ive read about those games, I never played them, but never the less dwarfs bobbits and fuzzies (which i would have less of an issue with than dwarfs) WERE eventually phased out.

And my point about dwarf extremists was that player races are not a big deciding factor in game play. People said the same thing about elves, that elves (a vastly more popular fantasy race than dwarfs) would bring people into the game, or that their absence was keeping people away, which I contended was absurd, and it as it turns out I was right. The addition of elves did nothing noticeable for UO's subs. I didn't imply that there were not dwarf extremists, but rather that there are few, and that no one is going to NOT play a game they otherwise find appealing simply because they aren't able to play a dwarf.

As for variety, I for one think there should be a point for it. Like I said the Yomotsu race are more or less goblins. Why add in goblins when we already have them. Why add in dwarfs when Gargs will do what dwarfs do in other games/worlds. Why add in something that other games have, when they are already represented by a more unique version? Thats just me.

Well in my opinion having a Dwarf race will bring more players in then it loses in fact i doubt anyone will quit UO just because there is a Dwarf race they may quit for other reason but not that reason alone i could be wrong but i doubt it.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Why add in dwarfs when Gargs will do what dwarfs do in other games/worlds. Why add in something that other games have, when they are already represented by a more unique version?

I'll second this sentiment.

 

[Dean478]

Did people just not get the hint when Richard Garriott said "no races except humans from here on out"?

Ultima 1 also had spaceships, laser guns, aliens, no real structured story, references to Earth based mythology.

Ultima 2 apparently forgot about Britannia and was all based on Earth, including Lord British and all the elves.

Ultima 3 was the first time where he actually BEGAN to construct a proper setting. He returned to Sosaria of Ultima 1, focused on a particular continent and then added some structure.

Come Ultima 4, he decides to persue an even more unique setting and REMOVED all the generic elements without any explanation.

Notice in the intro to Ultima Online we see the Avatar/stranger approaching a castle armed with a sword. I don't see any technological time machine, I don't see him holding a phazer or wearing reflect armour.

I hated elves. I thought the meer or juka were a far better alternative. HOWEVER I do appreciate the link to previous Ultimas, even if it ignores the vision of Ultima. But leave these tried concepts out of the game. Make it ULTIMA. It's bad enough we have Warhammer and Warcraft trying so hard to differentiate themselves at such a late stage, we don't need another gmae.

If Star Wars added klingons, we'd be pissed off beyond belief. Yet when another franchise adds stunty men with beards, no-one cares?

 

[Uvtha]

Well in my opinion having a Dwarf race will bring more players in then it loses in fact i doubt anyone will quit UO just because there is a Dwarf race they may quit for other reason but not that reason alone i could be wrong but i doubt it.

Undoubtedly, I don't think it will bring anyone in, just as I doubt anyone would quit over it. But that for me doesn't justify its implementation. If elves didn't do it, dwarfs wont.

 

[Aran]

Did people just not get the hint when Richard Garriott said "no races except humans from here on out"?

Ultima 1 also had spaceships, laser guns, aliens, no real structured story, references to Earth based mythology.

Ultima 2 apparently forgot about Britannia and was all based on Earth, including Lord British and all the elves.

Ultima 3 was the first time where he actually BEGAN to construct a proper setting. He returned to Sosaria of Ultima 1, focused on a particular continent and then added some structure.

Come Ultima 4, he decides to persue an even more unique setting and REMOVED all the generic elements without any explanation.

Notice in the intro to Ultima Online we see the Avatar/stranger approaching a castle armed with a sword. I don't see any technological time machine, I don't see him holding a phazer or wearing reflect armour.

I hated elves. I thought the meer or juka were a far better alternative. HOWEVER I do appreciate the link to previous Ultimas, even if it ignores the vision of Ultima. But leave these tried concepts out of the game. Make it ULTIMA. It's bad enough we have Warhammer and Warcraft trying so hard to differentiate themselves at such a late stage, we don't need another gmae.

If Star Wars added klingons, we'd be pissed off beyond belief. Yet when another franchise adds stunty men with beards, no-one cares?

This sums up my feelings a lot less angrily and with less personal attacks than I would have put it.

 

[WarUltima]

Hey dwarves could use slightly modified orc graphic for 2D lol.
I dont know when dwarf is gonna hit UO. It took them how many years to have a plan to a new race in UO? I wont even say it out.

Anyways out of bordom
I think Dwarf racial traits could be 75 max physical.
Higher stam regen
Dwarven melee weapons

and so on.

 

[Dean478]

This sums up my feelings a lot less angrily and with less personal attacks than I would have put it.

Where are the personal attacks, it was directed at no-one?

 

[Aran]

This sums up my feelings a lot less angrily and with less personal attacks than I would have put it.

Where are the personal attacks, it was directed at no-one?

I think you need to re-read what I wrote a few times.

 

[Kiminality]

Where are the personal attacks, it was directed at no-one?

What Aran means is that he's an angry, angry man.
He agrees with what you have written, but would not have written it so nicely.

Just nod, smile, and don't mention KR

 

[Aran]

ARAN SMASH!

*bashes Kiminality with a table*

 

[Dean478]

Re-read it the first time and realised straight away.

I need some fresh air I think...

 

[Uvtha]

I dont know when dwarf is gonna hit UO.

Lets hope never.

 

[Wenchkin]

...

Why add in dwarfs when Gargs will do what dwarfs do in other games/worlds. Why add in something that other games have, when they are already represented by a more unique version?

I'll second this sentiment.

They might do what dwarves do, but as a RPer, I want my character to be short and fat, not huge with wings and horns. I'd love to make my alchemist the short fat lady I imagine her to be, again that wouldn't suit. It's about more than abilities and what looks cool. I like the look of gargy chars, but that wouldn't suit the chars I currently play. If that makes sense.

This is why I think we should just be able to change height, weight and add a few wrinkles so folks don't get all uppity because we're a dwarf, goblin or whatever. Then players can make up their own races which could be interesting.

Wenchy

 

[Aran]

I think we should revert back eight years.

 

[D'Amavir]

To those who feel that Drawves should not be a playable race or in the game because just about every other game has them well originality is not always the best course of action sure it is a lot of the time but not always.

• First of all the ultima games had Drawves as a playable race before most of the other games that have Drawves ever existed. most games with Drawves are doing rather well a few are more successful then UO is.

• Having a Dwarf race can only make UO a more enjoyable and more popular game then it is now variety is the spice of life. my feeling is if you don't want to be a Dwarf then don't be one but let those players like me who want to have a Dwarf have a Dwarf as a playable character if they want to.

• Seriously has any game ever lost popularity because they have a Dwarf race i don't think so in fact i think they gained some popularity in part because they have a Dwarf race.

• I am also for all the other races players mentioned before on many post and more even if they become a playable race before Dwarfs becomes a playable race if ever.

One thing i wonder about how come uo does not have goblins i think they would make great spawn and a great playable race too. I figure making this a second post is for the best in this case instead of just responding to my last post on a Dwarf race.

Taking the ultima games out of the equation, not saying they don't matter at all though, dwarves as a player race in UO should take a far far backseat to the races that actually exist in UO. Gargoyles, lizardmen, Meer, Juka, Orcs, Ettins, Trolls, etc should be added to UO as player races because they really exists here. We have 10+ years of UO to build on and a lot of really neat races that could be added based on those years.

Gargoyles are a good start. But I think that races should be added with no major differences to them other than the rp aspects. Balance in UO is hard enough with Humans. Add several more races each with their own benefits here and there and that balance gets even worse. Since most people that speak out about wanting things like dwarves added say they want them for the rp aspect anyway, keeping them as close to humans as they can except for the visual differences would just make things much easier for the developers and those tasked with keeping the game balanced.

 

[D'Amavir]

They might do what dwarves do, but as a RPer, I want my character to be short and fat, not huge with wings and horns. I'd love to make my alchemist the short fat lady I imagine her to be, again that wouldn't suit. It's about more than abilities and what looks cool. I like the look of gargy chars, but that wouldn't suit the chars I currently play. If that makes sense.

This is why I think we should just be able to change height, weight and add a few wrinkles so folks don't get all uppity because we're a dwarf, goblin or whatever. Then players can make up their own races which could be interesting.

Wenchy

I would be all for them adding body types where you could scale your height and weight as you wanted to mimic a 'dwarven' look without having to do all the development and coding required to add a new race.

 

[Fluffi]

They might do what dwarves do, but as a RPer, I want my character to be short and fat, not huge with wings and horns. I'd love to make my alchemist the short fat lady I imagine her to be, again that wouldn't suit. It's about more than abilities and what looks cool. I like the look of gargy chars, but that wouldn't suit the chars I currently play. If that makes sense.

This is why I think we should just be able to change height, weight and add a few wrinkles so folks don't get all uppity because we're a dwarf, goblin or whatever. Then players can make up their own races which could be interesting.

Wenchy

My hatred for elves is primarily because they are not Meer, but hot on the heels of that comes the racial traits nonsense.

UO is not a class-based game; which is a major part of its' appeal; and shoe-horning class-based attributes into UO was a terrible mistake.


I would apperciate fully customisable characters - species / height / girth / facial characteristics / etc - but these should be nothing more than graphical variations.

 

[Uvtha]

This is why I think we should just be able to change height, weight and add a few wrinkles so folks don't get all uppity because we're a dwarf, goblin or whatever. Then players can make up their own races which could be interesting.

I would like this feature as well, but I just don't see it happening. And if it did, it would only be KR, or SA or whatever they end up calling the "new" client.

 

[Uvtha]

UO is not a class-based game; which is a major part of its' appeal; and shoe-horning class-based attributes into UO was a terrible mistake.

Agreed. Theres no reason a human couldnt do any of the things an elf could do, or visa verca. It would just depend on the individual.

What would have been nice would have been like 3 hights, 3 or so body sizes, then like 10 "races" and each race with several different heads and facial hair, horns, etc. The elves and dwarves could have been alternate human faces. Every one is equal, and its purely an RP aide.

That would have been ideal for me.