Post Feedback if you don't like the Vamp-form nerf!

[von Beck]

If you don't like this change, please post feedback on the uo.com site and encourage all your sampire buddies to do so! If enough people complain about warriors getting nerfed they may listen.

Here's what I wrote:

Re: The FoF announcement about nerfing vamp-form when +skill items are removed.

This change is going to have a big impact on my UO gameplay. You are making warriors (my favorite) a much less viable template to play.

I think that some love should be given to warriors to make up for this nerf. I've had lots of ideas while I've been thinking about this overnight, and I'm sure you can think of more.

* Add a 'vampire cowl' artifact that gives +50% life leech.
* Improve the stats of the midnight bracers artifact, make them viable for a warrior to wear. Particularly the resists should be improved.
* Add a shield artifact with +15 necromancy, +10 fire resist and +15 DCI.
* Implement greater plate mail (like you gave tamers greater dragons) only equippable if you have 90 or more tactics, resists are capped at 90 rather than 70.
* Enhance the feature where having certain skills lower the cost of special moves, by increasing the resists cap. For example a total of 200 points in these skills might allow a resists cap of 75, a total of 300 points might allow resists to cap at 85.

I think somehow or other you should soften this blow to the warrior class by adding something that will make up for the loss of vamp-form.

von Beck

 

[BbqLou]

Yeah, if your for the use of exploits sign it!

 

[Ender]

Vamp embrace was never really an exploit. :/

And *posts something about how this change was ****ing stupid*

 

[Ericge99]

It's gone .... well almost, and about time!
Archers lost out several times, so heres the deal .... you get to keep your sampire ... and the archers/ ninja's get what we lost ... sound OK to you?

 

[Faeryl]

Vamp embrace was never really an exploit. :/

IMO, if you used +skill jewellry to get necro high enough to use Vampiric Embrace, then changed to different jewellry, that could be considered an exploit. Working around the skill cap creates an unfair advantage over others, and I'm actually happy about this nerf.

 

[AesSedai]

- This is not a nerf.

If you have the skills to be (jewelry even), then you can be a vampire.
If you drop the skills then you cannot remain one.

Not a nerf.
A fix? Yes.

As the FoF states, I would call this: a change.
(I still prefer to call it: a fix.)
But this is not what I'd ever call: a nerf.

 

[Poo]

i find all these guys complaining about this change funny.

if this is really that devastating then why not just pick up necro?

i also love the suggestions that where posted in the first post.
like they are gonna take away the ability for people to to do this.... but then put items into the game to allow them to do it again.
hahhhahahahahhaha

that kills me, im laughing so hard.

i know its hard to believe, but people play warriors and have for 11 years and they have never used vamp form......
i know!
i cant believe it either!

eat orange petals.
chug pots.
get someone to x heal ya.

so ya, you wont be able to solo a champ.
now you will need to make a friend in game to x heal ya.

infact.
if all the sammy vamp warriors banded together and make a support group they could be friends with each other!

i think most peoples dislike of sammy necro twinks has come from watching them clog up the peerlesses all day chaining them solo when the rest of us where going in with groups of people.

so to try to get sympathy from the people know..... ya i dont think its gonna happen.

 

[sapphirediablo11]

Personally i think it is a step forwards to a step back, when things were more skill dependent and less item dependent i like it no complaint from moi :|

 

[kelmo]

As much as I would like to send this thread to S&R, I will not. Someone might yet. Just so you know.

The popular template called "Sampire" is a work around in my opinion. It was not against the rules. It will be soon. It was not intended.

I feel for you folk, Lord knows I have bashed my head into a few walls. The devs do as they will. Post your feedback. It is your right to do so. I predict this is a lost cause. Some things were not meant to be solo killed.

I know a lost cause when I see it. I have fought many.

 

[Ender]

i think most peoples dislike of sammy necro twinks has come from watching them clog up the peerlesses all day chaining them solo when the rest of us where going in with groups of people.

Actually what I always found, even on the more populated shards like Great Lakes, it was groups that were chaining and the solo players who had to wait. :/

 

[von Beck]

Some things were not meant to be solo killed.

This is not about soloing stuff. I don't use vamp form to solo stuff, I use it to hunt in groups. Soloing high end stuff might be possible but it's very difficult even with vamp form. Vamp-form just allows warriors to be of some use IN GROUPS hunting high-end stuff, rather than everyone using greater dragons or being useless.

I know a lost cause when I see it. I have fought many.

You will notice that the feedback I submitted suggested practical ways of 'softening the blow' of this change. I actually used my brain to think of alternatives rather than posting "this sux".

As much as I would like to send this thread to S&R, I will not. Someone might yet. Just so you know.

Please tell me why encouraging people to submit feedback is a Spiel or a Rant?

like they are gonna take away the ability for people to to do this.... but then put items into the game to allow them to do it again

Umm no. The suggestions I made would not allow exactly the same templates. Sampires would still have to adjust, and wouldn't be as powerful. These ideas are just to soften the blow.

i find all these guys complaining about this change funny.

I find it funny the guy who posted the guide to raising bard skills by trapping cu's on a boat (which is not legal) comes onto a thread about warriors posting like he's mr goodie goodie.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

This chang/fix/nerf whatever you consider it doesn't fix any actual problem. It won't stop me playing my sampire, so I don't really care either way.

 

[kelmo]

This chang/fix/nerf whatever you consider it doesn't fix any actual problem. It won't stop me playing my sampire, so I don't really care either way.

Carry on then!

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

?... I was going to.

 

[UOKaiser]

Some things were not meant to be solo killed.

This has nothing to do with that portion. Not by a long shot wont even put a dent in soloing anything. Just dont like seing things like this go into in effect after so long it being allowed. Lettin people spend time building there templates finding the right pieces buying the right items for a specific way of fighting getting used to it and then have it nerfed like most other skills have being. They could of done this as soon as the first sampire came out but they didnt and waited so long.

 

[Kaleb]

This has nothing to do with that portion. Not by a long shot wont even put a dent in soloing anything. Just dont like seing things like this go into in effect after so long it being allowed. Lettin people spend time building there templates finding the right pieces buying the right items for a specific way of fighting getting used to it and then have it nerfed like most other skills have being. They could of done this as soon as the first sampire came out but they didnt and waited so long.

Welcome to UO kid.

Im all for this change this. is an mmo There should be things in UO that are not soloable Peerless for instance not a single one of us should solo them and farm them all day. 2nd Dont exploit the game by casting vamp and removing the items that gave you the skill in the first place. 3rd really train necro and you can have your sampire again.

 

[Cogniac]

I think the real issue behind all of these threads on the sampire "nerf" is UO's lack of tanking abilities. For years now, UO's solution to the problem of making monsters harder is to give them more HP and make them do more damage. Players have been able to keep up in terms of damage output, but are sorely lacking in their ability to absorb damage.

With a few more changes like this latest change, the only viable tanking template will be a tamer. And between the constant backlash against tamers and the dev team's repeated remarks about their plans to eventually make a "pet balancing pass," we may eventually be left without anyone to tank at all.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I agree about the tanking, but sliding around skill requirements isn't the way to do it. It's going to require a revamp that include a HUGE drop in damage dealing across the board, to and from players, to and from monsters.

 

[kelmo]

Save the crafters...

 

[UOKaiser]

Welcome to UO kid.

Im all for this change this. is an mmo There should be things in UO that are not soloable Peerless for instance not a single one of us should solo them and farm them all day. 2nd Dont exploit the game by casting vamp and removing the items that gave you the skill in the first place. 3rd really train necro and you can have your sampire again.

I dont believe that. The only creature that shouldnt be solo hasnt being created. Make a boss with 1000 dark father strength followers and the boss it self is stonger than all the peerless combined. There now we need a guild hell even the whole shard to kill it problem solved. There, its not solobable because its not possible. If it was possible to solo it then its solobable.
Or you can remove all items go back to gm equipment everything only allow 1 slot for pets and the strongest pet would be a nightmare plus lower the skill cap to 300 and lets add in potions to be less effective then also make all bard skills unable to be used in any champ area plus keep the bosses we have now and there there not soloble.

But I have no problems i can remake the sampire or go back to my tamer. I can adapt to any change. And return to soloing or else well seemingly there are so little people in uo these days to get a party toghether takes a good week to find people willing and trusting of course.

 

[Traveller]

If you don't like this change, please post feedback on the uo.com site and encourage all your sampire buddies to do so! If enough people complain about warriors getting nerfed they may listen.

I find it funny that everybody calls it "vamp form nerf", while in actuality it is a nerf to all the other forms as well. But I don't see many people complaining about the "unicorn-form nerf". That alone should make it clear how the design was abused to get a highly desirable form without paying the price for it. I won't say that it was an exploit, but certainly bad design.

About time it was fixed.

 

[Traveller]

The only creature that shouldnt be solo hasnt being created.

That comment is laughable at best. More and more times the creature that shouldn't be soloed has been created. And made soloable soon after by the introduction of arties, new skills, etc... all because SOME players whine because they want, want, want to solo everything in the game.

Now that the devs are removing ONE toy from the game, said players are behaving like a properly spoiled kid.

 

[nushpapa]

People called it an exploit... can someone please send me a link to a official uo statement stating when necromancy first came out the official rules using necro form please. If not it is merely the "new developers" deciding out of no where that it isn't how it is meant to be used. So no it isn't an exploit... but yes maybe the developers believe it should be changed in todays uo.

It is like saying being unable to disarm spellbook mages was an exploit.

Your call people call it exploits but have no basis for ur accusation. A exploit is something like casting 4 dark wisps so dexxers have trouble chasing you in fel. It is something gms will send you to jail for... if vamp form WAS an exploit they would have sent people to jail for it but they didn't therefore... NOT AN EXPLOIT

 

[Viper09]

No, this whole thing isn't an exploit. Instead it is a change to make it fair. If you don't have 99 necromancy you should not be able to retain vamp form as it requires 99 necromancy. If you use skill jewelry to raise it to 99 and cast it, you should be required to keep that jewelry on to retain the form. If you remove the jewels or jewel that results in you going below 99 necro you should lose the form, period. It doesn't matter whether you like it or not, but it makes sense for this change.

The only mistake is that they did not make this change a lot earlier because a lot of people were taking advantage of this loop-hole. If they did make this change a lot earlier less people would be complaining about it. You can still use skill jewelry to cast it but all you need to do is keep that jewel or jewelry on. And what they do need to fix is the server line so it wont make you "re-equip" the jewels involuntary resulting in losing form while crossing the server line.

Adapt and live with it.

 

[ZippyTwitch]

I'm all for the nerf. That is definate. But I do remember that when this game came out even for the first few years. This was a soloable game. Everything in the game could be soloed. From pvp to monsters. They ruined(changed) the game to make it a group based game. But for the most part I still play Uo solo. Granted I don't do many champ spawns or peerless unless with my guild. But I don't do much of that because I prefer to run solo. UO is fortunate because all those other games out there you can't really play solo. Sure you can for soo many lvls. But after you reach a certain lvl you need to group.

 

[Beefybone]

By the time Publish 56 comes out, templates will have already been altered and tested, and the soloing of bosses will go right on ahead.

 

[THP]

Nope they wont change the fix!!! [END]

Its long overdue fix...the sampire template was simply bending the rules to the max..

Play and adapt...OR just wait see how the jap shards change the template and then simply copy it again...LOL!!!

 

[Connor_Graham]

By the time Publish 56 comes out, templates will have already been altered and tested, and the soloing of bosses will go right on ahead.

*nods*


I'm not upset they changed it.


I'm upset they changed it right after they said they weren't going to.

 

[Hanna]

About time, one of the few good fixes they have done in a while. Long over due.

 

[Vyrquenox]

well i had already expected this anyway and had 99 necro stoned. Lost a bit of damage dealing and healing capability, can adjust easily. What I am figuring is that when they still see fighters in vampire form basically doing the same thing the screeching will start again and then you know they will probably require spiritspeak gm as well, until they have made sure there is no real reason for the spell in the first place, and when wraiths are flying around everywhere they will have to make it so monsters ward remove people, and on and on, until they are confident there are no errant fighters duking it out with anything stronger than a blood elemental. What I wonder is how professional game designers supposedly couldn't forsee the use of a spell they made.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

It's not a nerf. It's a bug fix.

Need a tissue?

 

[Salty Pete]

Fixing an exploit ≠ a nerf.

Yes, everyone of you that was using a soulstone or items to add skill, cast the form and then remove skill while keeping the form were exploiting. Sorry that your exploit has been removed, I'm sure you'll be able to find another way to get an unfair advantage soon.

 

[Surgeries]

...

I agree about the tanking, but sliding around skill requirements isn't the way to do it. It's going to require a revamp that include a HUGE drop in damage dealing across the board, to and from players, to and from monsters.

Precisely.

I agree with the Tanking element, as well. Logically speaking, I am not sure that a Player with even 150 HP should be able to take the same damage as a creature with 450, and 125 Magery, for example. And if they are able to, should that same player be able to dish out the damage, like they do now, while tanking? The picture at the beginning of KR shows it pretty well, with the warrior grimacing under the Fire Breath from a Dragon, while he stays behind his shield...I would say it would be pretty hard to take that damage, AND kick that dragon's butt, all at the same time, especially with no healing powers at all.

Like you say, they definitely need to take a hard look at this from many different angles. It shouldn't be a hurried, Band-Aid fix, either.

Once fixed, or at least more balanced, there should be a specific process followed that re-examines the same data sets, when items, skills, or creatures are added, to ensure that the balance created, is maintained.

But first...they need to get it balanced...

 

[Doomsday Dragon]

This change is like McDonalds. I'm lovin' it.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

*nods*


I'm not upset they changed it.


I'm upset they changed it right after they said they weren't going to.

Please list ANYWHERE that the devs stated that it wasnt getting changed. Next time try to use the Jedi Mind trick on someone other than yourself...you will be much happier with the results.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Please list ANYWHERE that the devs stated that it wasnt getting changed. Next time try to use the Jedi Mind trick on someone other than yourself...you will be much happier with the results.

Stated by Jeremy herself in the Vamp Form Poll thread just a few short weeks ago after the last town hall:

Let me clarify that this wasn't an "announcement" as such - just Leurocian's views on this particular feature/bug. It's not on anyone's schedule and we certainly haven't decided exactly what, if anything, to do about it.

 

[5% Luck]

Signed



if it wasn't for necro scrolls not being a skill boost and necro spells not scaling properly it would have never been an issue. Minimum skill should be where you have 0 chance to cast and not an abrituary number set in the spell book.

Double signed!

Im also sure I read it was not getting changed a few months back!

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

...

I agree about the tanking, but sliding around skill requirements isn't the way to do it. It's going to require a revamp that include a HUGE drop in damage dealing across the board, to and from players, to and from monsters.

I remember when it was a challenge to fight dragons. In fact...the fights we used to have against dragons were much akin to fighting superdragons today (minus a slayer wep). Since AoS this game has been subject to alot of *powderpuffing*, and to me this change just reverts a small bit of that.
One thing we all should be happy about that hasnt been mentioned is that we can expect to see a bit less gold flooding into the already strained UO economy.

Now if we can only get more gold sinks and get rid of the blatant speedhacking, perhaps I might actually start playing again.

 

[Ender]

Yeah... They did state that they weren't going to change it.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Please list ANYWHERE that the devs stated that it wasnt getting changed. Next time try to use the Jedi Mind trick on someone other than yourself...you will be much happier with the results.

Stated by Jeremy herself in the Vamp Form Poll thread just a few short weeks ago after the last town hall:

Let me clarify that this wasn't an "announcement" as such - just Leurocian's views on this particular feature/bug. It's not on anyone's schedule and we certainly haven't decided exactly what, if anything, to do about it.

It should be evident to you that there is no mention of NOT implementing this change. In addition you should pay close attention to the wordings of *as such*...*lerocians views*...*havent decided*. Those buzzwords seems to point me in a different direction than they did you. Perhaps you were a bit too optomistic when you read this...at least that is what I am reading from this.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Yeah... They did state that they weren't going to change it.

No...they stated they didnt know. I am going to guess that they were *mulling it over* at one point, but once people started to post thier logic roughly a month ago they kicked the fix into high gear.

(btw...lets not forget that Jeremy is in California and the team is in Virginia. This leaves alot of room for Jeremy to (mis)interpret the information SHE receives and passes along to us.)

 

[Connor_Graham]

"Not an announcement" and "Leurocian's views" pretty much says that they didn't have any changes planned, that it was just the viewpoint of one Dev.

That particular response also stated that they "valued any input", and the input was clearly that the majority that voted on the poll stated they didn't feel a change was needed.

So much for valuing input.

 

[Ender]

It's the UO dev team, if they actually listened to the player base I'm sure there wouldn't be all these unnecessary and unwanted changes.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Umm I'm pretty certain Jeremy is also in Virginia as of now.

Secondly, the one statement provided doesn't give any statement in either direction other than at that time they weren't working on it, but that it was under consideration.

As of the town hall meeting, she stated that the issue needed a good "kick in the nuts".

And this would not be the first time, nor will it be the last time they did a 180 on a particular issue. I'm more than used to that given their track record on what they do with client upgrades and requirements for new areas that are created as a way to advance the client upgrade... they did it with Ilshenar and they are doing it with SA.

 

[Connor_Graham]

...
As of the town hall meeting, she stated that the issue needed a good "kick in the nuts".

That was Leurocian that said that, and is the "view" that Jeremy was referring to.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

"Not an announcement" and "Leurocian's views" pretty much says that they didn't have any changes planned, that it was just the viewpoint of one Dev.

That particular response also stated that they "valued any input", and the input was clearly that the majority that voted on the poll stated they didn't feel a change was needed.

So much for valuing input.

You do realize a poll doesnt give any true aspect of opinion unless:

1) people can only vote once
2) there are at least 1000 people voting.

Neither of these happened sir. Also, in regards to stating your case so they could *value your input*...you should have stated why it wasnt an exploit INSTEAD of pointing out flaws in OTHER systems as a reason. If you cannot be specific with your reasoning, more than likely your input means nothing. On the flip side...those who were against vamp form provided multiple reason why it was a bad thing.

Now...I am not a developer...but if I was given a list of ten reasons by players stating exactly why something was bad in addition to the the opinion of Luerocian, I would be a ****** not to address the issue and follow up on these claims.

BTW...these are not a good defense
1) nuh uh!
2) its not because I say so
3) well *insert temp here* can do this, why cant I do that.

see where I am going here sir? Those of use against this issue did alot more than just mention the three reasons above. However those three above were the extent of your arguement. MEH!

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

That was Leurocian that said that, and is the "view" that Jeremy was referring to.

BTW...how many times has Jeremy misinterpreted things?

Again...

california...virginia.

nuff said.

 

[AesSedai]

(Austin - Virginia)
(She was in VA last week and returns home this week -uo.com/FoF)

As far as whether the UO Team went back on any word? No, I didn't read Jeremy's quote that way at all. However, it looks like they have addressed that issue/feature/bug and have decided to change it in Pub56.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

(Austin - Virginia)
(She was in VA last week and returns home this week -uo.com/FoF)

As far as whether the UO Team went back on any word? No, I didn't read Jeremy's quote that way at all. However, it looks like they have addressed that issue/feature/bug and have decided to change it in Pub56.

my mistake. I thought she hailed from cali. oops. heh...the shoe still fits tho.

 

[Nexus]

I say if they go through with it then make Mages require animal lore to control summons....Necro's need Animal Lore to control Kitsune with a Dark Wolf and Samuari need Animal Lore to do anything other than look silly mounted on a Lesser Hiryu. It's no different they are using other skills or items to substitute and make use of game aspects without investing skill points into appropriate areas.

Tamers can't do any of these things without Animal Lore..well summons but they can't control comparable creatures without Lore.