Important: PoF not for SA imbuing skill items??

[Der Rock]

from the HoC:
zigzag - *athos_uo* Will be Powder of Fortifying be used on imbued items in SA?
Jeremy_EAMythic - Leurocian says no, and you can hear more about the details of I
.....................................................................................................

i think, a big problem these day´s are the forgetfulness of the people.

remember last townhall, what jeremy sayd about randomness off mining and lumber resourcess
and why they make it like this.
so, if collecting higher ingots and wood(valo/frost) is more catchier, then the new SA items will be not easy to get.

fact is, that NO of todays new top mmo´s let items brake.
items can be useless/wornout after a while, BUT they are Repaireable!

example: let say a average player with 1-3h playtime ,such a player can´t be bothered
to examine and control his armor and weapons and replace items every day/week/month.
player "love" to try to maxout his charakter with items.

i posted it many times here, dont let items brake, let them outworn over time, but then let them be Repairable,the higher the mods the more resourcess u need to repair.
that would be
a) a good gold sink
b)keep the player motivated
c)keep the resourcess provider busy


dev´s : dont start to trash SA even before it is online.
i mean it well,braking the belongins of player is WRONG

 

[Silverbird]

Items braking and beeing able to be replace without too much trouble is the basis for crafters. A few years ago ... when many ppl ran around in exceptional armours t wasnt a problem.

 

[Traveller]

fact is, that NO of todays new top mmo´s let items brake.
items can be useless/wornout after a while, BUT they are Repaireable!

Not on MMOs who have a serious economy... Of course you can argue that UO shouldn't have a serious economy, many MMO don't, after all. But it seems clear to me that AoS and following expansions have proven that UO won't gain anything by imitating other newer, more flashier games.

 

[Gheed]

fact is, that NO of todays new top mmo´s let items brake.
items can be useless/wornout after a while, BUT they are Repaireable!

Not on MMOs who have a serious economy... Of course you can argue that UO shouldn't have a serious economy, many MMO don't, after all. But it seems clear to me that AoS and following expansions have proven that UO won't gain anything by imitating other newer, more flashier games.

FFXI has a serious economy. Items do not wear and can not be lost. They have just as complex of a system of armor and weapons as UO. As well as a very robust food system that provides very helpful bonus' to different templates. Crafting the right items at the right time can yield very profitable results. The game is at six years now and the economy is still very robust. One mil is still a lot of money yet not hard to obtain if you put a little effort to it.

I read some posts here that claim this will be good for crafting. But I'm curious... Who here would be delighted too have to replace items regularly for all their templates. My PoF vendor votes heavily that folks don't want to.

 

[kelmo]

FFXI has a serious economy. Items do not wear and can not be lost. They have just as complex of a system of armor and weapons as UO. As well as a very robust food system that provides very helpful bonus' to different templates. Crafting the right items at the right time can yield very profitable results. The game is at six years now and the economy is still very robust. One mil is still a lot of money yet not hard to obtain if you put a little effort to it.

I read some posts here that claim this will be good for crafting. But I'm curious... Who here would be delighted too have to replace items regularly for all their templates. My PoF vendor votes heavily that folks don't want to.

I would be delighted to see items break. Your PoF vendor could sell enhanced items.

 

[Gheed]

I would be delighted to see items break. Your PoF vendor could sell enhanced items.

Then don't use PoF.

 

[Teufel_Hund]

I would be delighted to see items break. Your PoF vendor could sell enhanced items.

As would I. Repairing of armor and such used to be an important part of the game and also used to create player interaction. I remember standing in line at the Smithy in Brit and waiting for the GM smith to repair my items. Little things like that are what made this game special.

 

[Landicine]

While game economies are important, I think good game play is more important. I don't think AoS killed UO's economy; I think it expanded it. People can still sell practically anything, though certain mundane items aren't in that much demand. It is never going to go back to the days where crafters could sell just exceptional items and make a living.

I'm going to make an interesting observation. People use powder on everything, including items that aren't worth as much as the powder. I had to repair a friend's pixi swatter during the Ethereal Moonglow incident which had been repaired so many times, it needed powder. A pixi swatter, under normal non-Spring Cleaning conditions, is cheaper to buy than the powder to increase its durability. However, I can save up powder and use it to help most of the items I own because it simplifies things when I just want to repair the item and get back in the fight. During Magincia, I didn't have time to make or buy a new demon slayer, my friends needed me armed and ready now.

This is major. So major I would ask that the devs rethink this change away from powder. Unless imbuing adds something similar. I think waiting for the town hall is going to be important before there is any final verdict.

 

[Gheed]

I would be delighted to see items break. Your PoF vendor could sell enhanced items.

As would I. Repairing of armor and such used to be an important part of the game and also used to create player interaction. I remember standing in line at the Smithy in Brit and waiting for the GM smith to repair my items. Little things like that are what made this game special.

Items that break can not be repaired because they disappear when they break. You are talking about repair deeds. And that has nothing to do with GM smiths repairing items in person for you. That was ruined by a few bad apples that decided not to give items back.

 

[Satanatra]

I have to agree with the original poster.

People go crazy building their suits - and tbh it is a difficult task. Having to rebuild you suit every week would drive people nuts. Back when items did break - replacing them was easy because they used gm leather/plate etc... With todays items it just wouldnt work.

And another thing - people always go on about how good the old days were. Well, i played in the old days (from the original open beta) and, yes, they were unbelieveable good. But you CANT GO BACK. If they reverted UO, right now, to the state/rule set of the game in 1997 people would not love it. Things/people have changed.

The idea i support most would be a combination of the two main proposals put forward here:

Let items wear down to the point that they are useless.

Let Crafters repair them.

Make this repair process difficult and expensive to do, requiring things you get from completing quests or defeating mobs...

But let people have their items.

 

[kelmo]

And things will continue to change. When change stops, we are done.

 

[Teufel_Hund]

Items that break can not be repaired because they disappear when they break. You are talking about repair deeds. And that has nothing to do with GM smiths repairing items in person for you. That was ruined by a few bad apples that decided not to give items back.

I do not at all understand your response to me. Back in the day to prevent your items from breaking you needed to have them repaired, to do this if you did not have a GM smith you needed to have them repaired by one. This caused the player interaction which helped create the community which really was the foundation of the game and one of the things that made it very unique and great. Now your community is your Guild if you belong to one. That is where this game went south.

 

[Teufel_Hund]

I have to agree with the original poster.

People go crazy building their suits - and tbh it is a difficult task. Having to rebuild you suit every week would drive people nuts. Back when items did break - replacing them was easy because they used gm leather/plate etc... With todays items it just wouldnt work.

And another thing - people always go on about how good the old days were. Well, i played in the old days (from the original open beta) and, yes, they were unbelieveable good. But you CANT GO BACK. If they reverted UO, right now, to the state/rule set of the game in 1997 people would not love it. Things/people have changed.

The idea i support most would be a combination of the two main proposals put forward here:

Let items wear down to the point that they are useless.

Let Crafters repair them.

Make this repair process difficult and expensive to do, requiring things you get from completing quests or defeating mobs...

But let people have their items.

Nail on the Head.

Items that cost millions in gold should not be so easily repaired with a 3gp sewing kit or 17gp Smiths hammer. Kind of like taking your Mercedes or BMW to a shop that uses Playskool tools!

 

[Gheed]

Items that break can not be repaired because they disappear when they break. You are talking about repair deeds. And that has nothing to do with GM smiths repairing items in person for you. That was ruined by a few bad apples that decided not to give items back.

I do not at all understand your response to me. Back in the day to prevent your items from breaking you needed to have them repaired, to do this if you did not have a GM smith you needed to have them repaired by one. This caused the player interaction which helped create the community which really was the foundation of the game and one of the things that made it very unique and great. Now your community is your Guild if you belong to one. That is where this game went south.

We were debating the use of PoF on items. PoF does not repair an item, it only increases the max durability... The items still need constant repair if used heavily. These repairs are now done by a crafter on the same account or the purchase of repair deeds. So I think a couple things ruined that community aspect of the game. First most everyone has their own crafter. And second folks use repair deeds if they don't have a crafter or just want to repair the item quickly. Still.. PoF did nothing to stop gm smiths from repairing your stuffs.... except maybe slightly lengthen the time needed between repairs... if you want to split hairs about it.

 

[Harb]

Imbued items must be repairable and fortifiable. It doesn't matter if there's a new thread posted every week until SA gets released, the "proper" direction remains the same, as do all the posts/ opinions. The bottom line is that the top priority for dev must be empowering players to enjoy playing the game. Equipping characters takes years to do, and already is a never ending process even with insurance/ fortifiying/ repairing. Dev can continue this unending process through added artifacts. Items that can't be fortified sit idly in houses or bank boxes. Not one person playing/ paying cares that your vendor wants their gold, unless your vendor has something they need to enjoy play. And your vendor's well being is not on anyone else's priority list. Folks come into the game with different limitations, penalizing those with less time to further your perceived role again has nothing to do with their enjoyment. Get real folks.

 

[kelmo]

I am as real as it gets. Items should wear out, need repairs and even replaced. This sort of economy would do a lot to revitalize many different sorts of play styles.

 

[Gheed]

I am as real as it gets. Items should wear out, need repairs and even replaced. This sort of economy would do a lot to revitalize many different sorts of play styles.

How so?

 

[Lord Kotan]

As would I. Repairing of armor and such used to be an important part of the game and also used to create player interaction. I remember standing in line at the Smithy in Brit and waiting for the GM smith to repair my items. Little things like that are what made this game special.

I don't think it'll ever come to that again... since you know - people can scam your items.

 

[Traveller]

FFXI has a serious economy. Items do not wear and can not be lost. They have just as complex of a system of armor and weapons as UO.

I have to admit that I have never played to FFXI, but from what you said it doesn't seem very different from current UO. Are you arguing that UO has a serious economy as well? Or is there some fundamental difference (in this respect) between the two?

 

[Harb]

Items should wear out, need repairs and even replaced. This sort of economy would do a lot to revitalize many different sorts of play styles.

Love the new sig BTW, but can't agree with ya on this theme. It's simply too difficult (by "difficult," I refer to RL time requirements) to get characters equipped to the degree folks strive for. Sure everyone can wear GM armor, what does that do to incentive, and consequently motivation to continue playing an open ended game? What play styles are you refering to? To view issues as objectively as possible, I try and remove my own considersations/ motivations from discussion. That keeps me coming back to the conclusion on this issue that most, not all, people who play do so for one thing only - personal enjoyment. Surely enjoyment comes from differing sources for everyone, but I haven't met anyone who enjoys their long sought gear/ items being lost. I do think imbuing as a skill and process needs to be difficult, very difficult. I don't think items generated need lesser "caps," coming back to the concept of incentive/ motivation. But at no point do I believe that once someone has strived/ worked/ etc toward a goal, that it should be lost or be reliant on someone else.

 

[Der Rock]

I am as real as it gets. Items should wear out, need repairs and even replaced. This sort of economy would do a lot to revitalize many different sorts of play styles.

revitalize?????

example:

with a mage or tamer u can stand in doom for MONTH
with a weapon template u have to go out and for repair every 2-3 days

so, what do u think wich play styles will be revitalized from breaking items????


let alone the items,durability worn out to 0 and then repair ok, but breaking NO !

the death of community is NOT the players fault, it was and is the absence from idias of the dev´s.
repairing items(from a rusty dagger till a artifact12) with a simple hammer or a 5gold cheap repair deed show us the the not existing fantasy from programmers.

 

[Wenchkin]

In 9+ years of not once using PoF on an item, I haven't had anything go pop. And it is certainly well used! So the argument that PoF is essential is simply unsound IMHO. If it's too onerous to look over your armour before you go out, maybe you're more suited to needlework than fighting. But you don't *need* PoF. It's simply an enhancement for those who want to take longer to repair items.

Also, this is a crafting addition. If said items were indestructible, they may as well drop as arties, because they'd be crafted like crazy for a few months then once again another crafting skill becomes barely used once we're all loaded up with l337 items. Which is pointless. EA have taken the right stance in this case.

I think some fighters should try to remember that players who have crafter characters are no less deserving of a fun game than they are. Demanding that items shouldn't break suits some fighters, but does nothing whatsoever for crafters or the market for their goods.

Wenchy

 

[LadyNico]

What Wenchy said.

So ner.

 

[kelmo]

If the really groovy items do not wear out or break, we will wind up at the same end game we have now. Most that strive to have the "high end" items will have them and then ask what next?

Items need to be dynamic, changing. or we will wind up at a dead end and wishing for the devs to dole out new and powerful goodies.

The mobs become too easy, beef up the mobs.... *shakes head*

Static items are fine for a single player game that has an end, not for UO.


The sig was created for me by Trillian... Admin/Fly Girl extraordinare, Bless her black heart.

 

[Der Rock]

I think some fighters should try to remember that players who have crafter characters are no less deserving of a fun game than they are. Demanding that items shouldn't break suits some fighters, but does nothing whatsoever for crafters or the market for their goods.

Wenchy

do u realy think that stealing my FUN to give them FUN is sozial?
how about,let the items alone and let the crafter make something more important as an simple rep.deed?

 

[kelmo]

Here is the entire quote from the house of commons:

zigzag - *athos_uo* Will be Powder of Fortifying be used on imbued items in SA?
Jeremy_EAMythic - Leurocian says no, and you can hear more about the details of Imbuing at the Chicago Town Hall
Jeremy_EAMythic - Leurocian can answer all of your questions there in person

Perhaps, if we are lucky, Leurocian will give us some of his thoughts on this soon. If not we wait until Chicago.

Leurocian is a very intense listener and deeply passionate about this game. I felt it was much more than just a paycheck. Give him a chance to let us know where he is taking us.

 

[Harb]

In 9+ years of not once using PoF on an item, I haven't had anything go pop. And it is certainly well used! So the argument that PoF is essential is simply unsound IMHO.

Then you're not playing a melee character. My pallie wears down weapons quickly, and even with legendary repairs, durability gets hit with each repair.

Also, this is a crafting addition. If said items were indestructible, they may as well drop as arties, because they'd be crafted like crazy for a few months then once again another crafting skill becomes barely used once we're all loaded up with l337 items. Which is pointless.

The skill and process should be difficult. On the dev side before implementation, first take a look at item goals by character class, projecting such goals shouldn't be that difficult. Then work time and resource requirements to hit said goals. If imbued items are restricted to "normal" properties, arties current and future retain desirability by having "unique" properties. Take a bracelet for a mage as an example. The artie has FCR 3, FC 2, LRC 20, LMC 10 and energy resist 15. An imbued equivalent wouldn't be "equal," FC would be restricted to 1, and LMC 8. My mage may be better server with DCI 15 instead of energy resist, and I'd drop LMC and add 15 physical resist as the character already has 40 LMC without his bracelet. Make it hard to do, sure, but make it possible. And this is one item for one character, I have 21. Each has 8 items not including weapons, shields and clothing. For dev, figure a man hour target, and go for it!

EA have taken the right stance in this case.

I've been away for a week or so, did I miss something? A decision has already been made?

I think some fighters should try to remember that players who have crafter characters are no less deserving of a fun game than they are. Demanding that items shouldn't break suits some fighters, but does nothing whatsoever for crafters or the market for their goods.

As you mention, imbuing as a skill and process is for crafters/ crafting, though the process itself is likely to be symbiotic. But the end state, whether an individual player is motivated by making or using, has to be about personal enjoyment and goals, not someone elses.

 

[Gheed]

I have to admit that I have never played to FFXI, but from what you said it doesn't seem very different from current UO. Are you arguing that UO has a serious economy as well? Or is there some fundamental difference (in this respect) between the two?

They both have serious economies. FFXI.. crafted/looted armor and weapons last forever... they have no durabilty limit, no need for repair, and are not lost when you die. And FFXI still maintains a robust economy. There are many high end items that folks drool over and several of those have been desired since day 1. Still these items sell for quite a bit and are difficult to come by.

The argument is yes items can last forever and still maintain a high demand. This is partially due to a vast array of templates in both games that allow players to choose many different ways to enjoy the games. These templates need different items to make them perform better. They (templates) can also perform differently by using different items.

In UO itself look at some of the more desired high end gear. Crimson Cinture is a good example. Those have been around for a long long time and still the price tag is high. It can not be destroyed. It can be blessed. It can last forever.

 

[Gheed]

In 9+ years of not once using PoF on an item, I haven't had anything go pop. And it is certainly well used! So the argument that PoF is essential is simply unsound IMHO. If it's too onerous to look over your armour before you go out, maybe you're more suited to needlework than fighting. But you don't *need* PoF. It's simply an enhancement for those who want to take longer to repair items.

So if you have never PoF'd an item and never had an item break, why would you be opposed to allowing it on imbued items?

Is it this statement? Is this your reason for not allowing PoF?:

Also, this is a crafting addition. If said items were indestructible, they may as well drop as arties, because they'd be crafted like crazy for a few months then once again another crafting skill becomes barely used once we're all loaded up with l337 items. Which is pointless. EA have taken the right stance in this case.

Again they didnt say they cant be repaired just that they can't be PoF'd. So why again are you against PoF if you have never used it and never had an item break? The two quotes completly contradict each other.

 

[Gheed]

If the really groovy items do not wear out or break, we will wind up at the same end game we have now. Most that strive to have the "high end" items will have them and then ask what next?

So the enjoyable alternative would be to force folks to obtain the same groovy items over and over again? They wouldn't say "what next" then I'm sure.

Items need to be dynamic, changing. or we will wind up at a dead end and wishing for the devs to dole out new and powerful goodies.

The mobs become too easy, beef up the mobs.... *shakes head*

Static items are fine for a single player game that has an end, not for UO.


The sig was created for me by Trillian... Admin/Fly Girl extraordinare, Bless her black heart.

MMOs only thrive on new content. Expansion dollars are coveted. There is no limit to the imagination and it's ability to keep a fresh flow of new intersting items in the game. UO has done it for 11 years now. Some of it was good and some of it was bad... all points of view. But to devise a system that would never need new items and fresh content would be a remarkable achievment.

Again if you dont want your items to last forever then by all means throw them all out every month and go get new ones. They should be easy to come by since PoF made them worthless. I'll keep mine forever... a win win situation.

 

[Tom_Builder]

braking the belongins of player is WRONG

I disagree with this, all items should wear out over time. There should even be a chance to break items when repairing them again. PoF should also have limited uses per item. Use it more then the limit and the item breaks.

This is just how I feel about it. I know others will have their own view point.

Tom

 

[FrejaSP]

Items braking and beeing able to be replace without too much trouble is the basis for crafters. A few years ago ... when many ppl ran around in exceptional armours t wasnt a problem.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

Items braking and beeing able to be replace without too much trouble is the basis for crafters. A few years ago ... when many ppl ran around in exceptional armours t wasnt a problem.

Excepting of course that people still didn't typically run around with their vanquishing weapons and armors of invulnerability unless they had already obtained a stash from people who had been silly enough to wear them.

The item issue has always been present in UO, and these days, the issue is as much about there being nothing viable to craft as it is that items don't break, but honestly, breaking items still remains a very silly concept in an item-based game.

It's also silly to have items that can be lost. Everyone(*) in UO's PvP screams and yells about item insurance and wants to be able to loot stuff. Of course, these players are about the phat lootz, not the PvP challenge. If it were anything else, you'd see games like WoW, where you can loot NONE of your opponents stuff, have a low PvP adoption rate, and yet, in WoW, they have a vibrant PvP system operating and in place.

Crafting should be more about crafting ancillary bonus stuff or the very rare super weapon/armor that can then be sold, or item enhancement. These days, in an item-based game (which would be a bigger mistake to run away from now than it was to become one when they did so), crafting's importance to day to day items should be repair only (which is handled through repair deeds).

If COMMUNITY is the larger issue, then there are ways to fix that, but that's not going t happen by having items break.



(*) Everyone, I understand, is an over-generalization, and applies simply to the majority of Feluccan players that take the time to voice their opinions on this board.

 

[Wenchkin]

do u realy think that stealing my FUN to give them FUN is sozial?
how about,let the items alone and let the crafter make something more important as an simple rep.deed?

Nobody has touched your invulnerable items that you have right now, and there has been no word that the devs are removing PoF for all the other items either. So what's stopping you playing with those once imbuing comes out? Nothing...

Playing UO is about more than being a fighter. It's also about being a crafter. One who actually, y'know, crafts stuff.

Wenchy

 

[Gheed]

braking the belongins of player is WRONG

I disagree with this, all items should wear out over time. There should even be a chance to break items when repairing them again. PoF should also have limited uses per item. Use it more then the limit and the item breaks.

This is just how I feel about it. I know others will have their own view point.

Tom

How does Imbuing solve this issue?

Why do you consider periodically suspending your prefered method of game play to jump through the same hoops to get the same items to be enjoyable?

 

[Darkfern76]

I am not sure i follow what all the fuss is about but the way I see it is the imbueing skill will give players a choice. Either use the regular artifacts and runic made items we have now and be able to powder them or make the decision to use the imbued items in the knowledge that they will ultimately break.

It gives the player a personal choice to make. Also once the Imbued item is destroyed won't it be a simple matter to go out and buy / craft another piece with exactly the same mods? That is if my understanding of how Imbueing will allow you to apply specific mods to items?

 

[RaDian FlGith]

As would I. Repairing of armor and such used to be an important part of the game and also used to create player interaction. I remember standing in line at the Smithy in Brit and waiting for the GM smith to repair my items. Little things like that are what made this game special.

Powder of Fortification doesn't make it so items don't need repair.

There are two issues with the whole scenario you speak of -- which I agree, were better community days for the game:

1) Many people have their own crafters, so they put their stuff in a crate, log out, log in, repair their stuff, log out, log in, put it back on, voila, never have to talk to another person.

2) Repair deeds -- not PoF -- are what caused the "repair" community to die.

See, if you'll recall, repair deeds were EA's answer to "We can't do secure repairs." Rather than put in a secure repair interface, they simply decided to go the deeds route.

If they took out deeds and made people interact again (and gave them a safe way to do so), that would help the issue you speak of -- and wouldn't have a thing to do with PoF.

 

[Gheed]

Playing UO is about more than being a fighter. It's also about being a crafter. One who actually, y'know, crafts stuff.

Wenchy

How does imbuing solve this issue?

 

[RaDian FlGith]

The idea i support most would be a combination of the two main proposals put forward here:

Let items wear down to the point that they are useless.

Let Crafters repair them.

Make this repair process difficult and expensive to do, requiring things you get from completing quests or defeating mobs...

But let people have their items.

There's no reason to make the process difficult and expensive to do. Again, you toss the game to the hardcore gamer over the casual gamer if you do something like that, and there's no reason to punish the casual gamer.

 

[Landicine]

In 10.927 years of playing according to the in-game record, I have had a few items break. More on my warrior than my mage, but still. Warriors need powder more than mages and more than crafters. Crafters shouldn't take it for granted that most of their items start with a lot less durability than an artifact (255) which without powder is 255 increasingly more frequent repairs.

Let's do a little example:

1. Two items with 255 and 60 durability.
2. For the sake of argument, a durability is lost every 1 minutes.
3. Repairs repair all damage, but subtract one from the total. (Even at legendary, I do imperfect repairs most of the time).
4. No powder of temperment used.

The total number of minutes the 255 item can be used is 32,640 if my math is correct (255 + 254 ....+ 2 + 1). This is 544 hours which is a few years for a player that logs in to fight 3 to 4 hours a week.

The total number of minutes for the 60 durability item is 1830 or 30.5 hours. That's about 2-3 months for an average player.

Realistically, I know durability goes down a lot slower for non-melee characters, and these numbers ignore certain things (fighting grizzles, using ASH for repairs) that might change things. Still, for the average player, 3 years is a long time, but 3 months is pretty close. If I had a choice between using an item I wouldn't have to worry about for 3 years or months, I'd go with the option that will most likely not be crafters.

Community and crafters is another issue entirely. Powder and repair deeds may have hurt crafting, but other things helped kill the need. One major one is people having their own craft characters. I don't consider myself a crafter, but I have a few crafter characters (120 Blacksmithing, 100 Blacksmithing, 120 Tailoring, 100 Tailoring, 100 Tinkering X2, 100 Carpentry, 100 Alchemy, 100 Inscription, 100 Cartography, 100 Cooking, 100 Bowcraft, with various support skills such as Arms Lore, Mining, Lumberjacking, Fishing). I'm going to look into imbuing when it comes in. For the most part, I don't need other crafters, except to buy hammers and other runics from when I'm too lazy to do BODs. If you are a crafter not making a profit now, you won't be making a profit in the future. I'd consider that a good bet.

 

[Dol'Gorath]

Imbue items with Self Repair 3+ then?
Isn't the item system about trades? Trade one uber stat for the SECURITY that you will never lose the item. I think Self Repair just became more valuable since the new items can't be POF'd.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

I am as real as it gets. Items should wear out, need repairs and even replaced. This sort of economy would do a lot to revitalize many different sorts of play styles.

Strongly disagree with you... items should only need to be replaced if something better comes along. Repair, fine. Break, no.

This would, by the way, do absolutely nothing to revitalize any "play style" in UO, Kelmo. First, in the current system (and who knows what is coming with SA), replacing your items could become nothing short of an expensive nightmare (please leave arguements of "gold is sooooo easy to get, every player has millions of gold in their bank" at the door, please *grin*), and crafters aren't going to suddenly become more viable than they are.

There are ways to give crafters things to do (ie: the assembling of special weapons/armor, of temporary add-ons for weapons/items, et cetera) that could make them vital again, without causing players additional headache.

 

[Traveller]

They both have serious economies.

That is enough. Sorry, but no. If you prefer this playstyle, fine, your money is as good as mine. But saying that UO has a serious economy is laughable, and only shows you have never seen one in action.

Again, if you prefer this playstyle it is your right to say so to the devs, but please, don't say the game has a serious economy only because one item on 100 can be sold well. There is much more in ingame economy than that.

In UO itself look at some of the more desired high end gear. Crimson Cinture is a good example. Those have been around for a long long time and still the price tag is high. It can not be destroyed. It can be blessed. It can last forever.

Actually you have unwillingly given a point to those who favor the breaking of imbued items. The crimson cincture is so expensive only because it is awfully rare. Put it a fast drop like the miniarties and you'll see their prices dropping to 100K.

Obviously, no matter how difficult will be to imbue items, crafter powergamers will flood the market in no time (I already imagine our friend connor happily imbuing every mongbat loot he sees... ). Since imbued items will be far from rare, the only way to keep their price high is to remove them from the system. If you don't remove them from the system they will soon be worth 100K each, and people once again will be screaming for "new content".

Or, you make imbuing INCREDIBLY hard so that even powergamers cannot satisfy the market. In which case is there a point? It would be another bod system, from which only crafter powergamers can benefit.

I think the devs finally made a good call with it, reinstating items that can be lost and that can be easily replaced. All people crying about POF basically forget that imbued items will be replaceable. Good call on this one, devs.

 

[Traveller]

Strongly disagree with you... items should only need to be replaced if something better comes along.

That statement horrifies me. Do you understand what you said? That the "perfect" playstyle consists in devs adding items, you playing until you get them, then asking for new items... rinse and repeat. In the meanwhile the better items will make monsters weaker and weaker, so people ask for stronger monsters, etc....

On the short term is all good and fine, but the game is basically unstable because players who care about items get bored after a little while and must be given more... and more.... and more. This turn of POF is a clear signal that the devs have done this same reasoning.

 

[Jeremy]

Comparisons to level-based games are misleading, because in a level-based game, your items generally become obsolete as your level goes up, so you need to replace them anyway. UO is very different in that you can create a brand-new character and equip the most powerful artifacts in the game as soon as you log in for the first time. If those items remain insured and never break, you'd never have to replace them at all.

 

[kelmo]

That statement horrifies me. Do you understand what you said? That the "perfect" playstyle consists in devs adding items, you playing until you get them, then asking for new items... rinse and repeat. In the meanwhile the better items will make monsters weaker and weaker, so people ask for stronger monsters, etc....

On the short term is all good and fine, but the game is basically unstable because players who care about items get bored after a little while and must be given more... and more.... and more. This turn of POF is a clear signal that the devs have done this same reasoning.

Spot on!

 

[Sir_Bolo]

People go crazy building their suits - and tbh it is a difficult task. Having to rebuild you suit every week would drive people nuts. Back when items did break - replacing them was easy because they used gm leather/plate etc... With todays items it just wouldnt work.

Building your suit is a difficult task... today. If Imbuing is implemented correctly, you will find good supply of items customized for your suit from your local crafter. That's the whole point of the Imbuing skill actually!

With a skill like Imbuing, there are 3 basic factors to consider when balancing the skill:

1) The power of the items that can be created
2) The difficulty of creating such items
3) The durability of the items created

Let's see how I would mix & match these three design factors:

A) It must be possible to create Imbued items which are at least as powerful as the currently available Artifacts or Runic crafted items, otherwise nobody would use the new imbued items (except maybe for newbies in training...)

B) However, you cannot have a constant high influx of top-level imbued items, otherwise all items in game quickly become worthless, and Imbuing itself becomes useless.

This can be balanced in two ways:

C1) The chance to Imbue an item with Artifact-level properties is insanely small and/or you have an extremely high chance to destroy the item in the process, but the resulting item lasts forever.

C2) You have a relatively good chance to imbue an item with Artifact-level properties, but the resulting item cannot be repaired indefinitely with PoF and eventually needs to be replaced with a new equivalent item.

Personally, I'm glad that the Devs chose option C2.
Option C1 would just be a RNG lottery click-fest. Crafters already have one such system, it's called BODs and runic crafting...

If things are balanced correctly, after Stygian Abyss you will have two ways to build a suit:

- Spend a ton of money to buy Artifacts and runic stuff, which will then last forever
or
- Save money by buying cheap imbued stuff which will have to be replaced, but is readily available

Actually I just had an idea: what if you could imbue items with even more powerful properties, at the cost of having them Cursed?

 

[Wenchkin]

Then you're not playing a melee character. My pallie wears down weapons quickly, and even with legendary repairs, durability gets hit with each repair.

Actually I do have melee characters, but as with my other chars, they have several suits for different situations. All of which will continue to be tweaked as better stuff comes along and their templates may or may not change requiring further modifications. Of course the same suit won't last forever, but who in UO truly keeps a suit intact for years with all the new additions which arrive? And incidentally, as I've just said above, this isn't changing items which are in game and PoF'able... so nothing prevents you from using those if you feel them necessary.

I've been away for a week or so, did I miss something? A decision has already been made?

Well unless I'm mistaken the subject of this thread came from the discussions at the last HoC chat and it sounds to me like a stance has been taken, but hey, enough crying might lead to a change *shrug*

As you mention, imbuing as a skill and process is for crafters/ crafting, though the process itself is likely to be symbiotic. But the end state, whether an individual player is motivated by making or using, has to be about personal enjoyment and goals, not someone elses.

Yes, but fighers shouldn't have a monopoly on fun and enjoyment right? I think there's a stack of content and items for fighters that can all be used with PoF. So to add in new craftables with a potential lifespan, to me, seems more than reasonable.

Also, between basic ordinary GM kit and the higher end runic crafted and enhanced loot, there's a market for more affordable kit that isn't priced at millions, but is still decent to good. Making these items unable to be enhanced with PoF should hopefully keep a more affordable supply of decent items for those players who don't want to spend millions on a suit.

Wenchy

 

[Wenchkin]

How does imbuing solve this issue?

By giving us something to craft which isn't invulnerable and thus creates a more steady demand over time, rather than a burst period where we craft till fingers bleed, then retire to the country.

Wenchy

 

[Eslake]

Not on MMOs who have a serious economy... Of course you can argue that UO shouldn't have a serious economy, many MMO don't, after all. But it seems clear to me that AoS and following expansions have proven that UO won't gain anything by imitating other newer, more flashier games.

I'm waiting for you to name any such games.

I cannot think of a single MMOG that has item decay/damage that does not allow for those items to be repaired indefinitely.


The only way to validate the removal of PoF is to make high-end high-quality gear common enough that one could expect to find replacements through normal game play within the time it takes for their current gear to wear out.

Those who keep pointing out how it was when GM exceptional gear was the way to go, are missing that the creatures, spells, etc have all been ramped up over time to keep pace with the new gear we have access to.

When GM Ex was the top, a 7x warrior could wade through mobs in Terathan keep slaughtering them one after another.
That same character today in that same gear wouldn't survive the first Avenger or Matriarch they ran into.