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Corrupted Goblin
Guest
Mark Jacobs is a....... Feel free to put any bad thing you want in that space it all fits.
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Capricious
Guest
Wow. That statement by Jacobs by OP actually made my stomach knot up. It is wrong on so many levels and has all the PR flair of a pisspot.
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Rubican
Guest
I appreciate Jacobs' protection of his employees and his desire to shield them from the harshness the anonymity of the internet provides. I've seen too many posts that are way over the top and out of line.
I think he fails to address the real need of customers to both receive and give feedback for a product they support and enjoy.
The problem is of course how to have a forum void of over the top useless complaining. I think the old MYUO boards did a good job of it though it took the resources of a paid moderator to delete such posts. I sure wish they would consider going back to those boards, I know I grow tired of seeing someones venting session.
I think he fails to address the real need of customers to both receive and give feedback for a product they support and enjoy.
The problem is of course how to have a forum void of over the top useless complaining. I think the old MYUO boards did a good job of it though it took the resources of a paid moderator to delete such posts. I sure wish they would consider going back to those boards, I know I grow tired of seeing someones venting session.
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AesSedai
Guest
The thing is, if people are going to be mean and make death threats and such, well aren't they going to do that regardless of whether there is an official community forum?
Which reminds me that his field of business is creating fantasy MMOGs...
Primary reason why I always preferred 'CatHat' rather than 'Dave Brown UO Mythic'.
People like his work they can look at the credits. Nutsos want to call him out then they have to go the extra mile and look at the credits in order to 'not only cross the line put go past it and draw a new on miles in the distance' (as MJacobs termed some of the 'anonymous' forum nutsos antics.. wouldn't be nearly as anonymous if the MyUO model were adapted, eh?).
Which reminds me that his field of business is creating fantasy MMOGs...
Primary reason why I always preferred 'CatHat' rather than 'Dave Brown UO Mythic'.
People like his work they can look at the credits. Nutsos want to call him out then they have to go the extra mile and look at the credits in order to 'not only cross the line put go past it and draw a new on miles in the distance' (as MJacobs termed some of the 'anonymous' forum nutsos antics.. wouldn't be nearly as anonymous if the MyUO model were adapted, eh?).
"We are supposed to provide a service. If we don't provide the service then you have, as a customer, every right to be upset with us."
-Agreed.
"In some cases it contributes to a mob, not a community. They're very different things."
-Agreed.
"Accountability is when the players vote with their credit card. If they players feel we aren't doing our job, they should cancel."
-Agreed. Much better to leave a quitting comment than posting about it on a Forum. And I've been in that position too.
"I'm on the boards, other people are on the boards and we will continue to be going forward. We are accountable that way, but we're more accountable to the players by their use of their credit cards."
-So there IS a way to communicate WITHOUT quitting or anything drastic. Just not in the same sense as typical game Forums. So far so good.
"If people think that accountability is just their need to vent their spleen at some community manager, that's not accountability. That's just people heaping abuse on somebody in order to feel better."
-Some posters honestly try to help improve the game. I guess I have to agree because that share of subscribers gets drowned and stepped over by the larger share, the ones that indeed just whine, hate and moan. Myself included, at times, regardless whether a reason really existed.
Just one objection to Mr. Jacob's -almost completely- justified tirade; He, and any others sharing these viewpoints, can simply decide to tie Forums accounts and names to credit cards then to character names(supposing a unique character name system is in work, which there should be) and to whatever else helps pinpoint someone's in-game identity... at the very least.
EA already has a similar system for Battlefields' Forums. Unique names, Forums account tied to game account too.. If my memory doesn't fail me.
-Agreed.
"In some cases it contributes to a mob, not a community. They're very different things."
-Agreed.
"Accountability is when the players vote with their credit card. If they players feel we aren't doing our job, they should cancel."
-Agreed. Much better to leave a quitting comment than posting about it on a Forum. And I've been in that position too.
"I'm on the boards, other people are on the boards and we will continue to be going forward. We are accountable that way, but we're more accountable to the players by their use of their credit cards."
-So there IS a way to communicate WITHOUT quitting or anything drastic. Just not in the same sense as typical game Forums. So far so good.
"If people think that accountability is just their need to vent their spleen at some community manager, that's not accountability. That's just people heaping abuse on somebody in order to feel better."
-Some posters honestly try to help improve the game. I guess I have to agree because that share of subscribers gets drowned and stepped over by the larger share, the ones that indeed just whine, hate and moan. Myself included, at times, regardless whether a reason really existed.
Just one objection to Mr. Jacob's -almost completely- justified tirade; He, and any others sharing these viewpoints, can simply decide to tie Forums accounts and names to credit cards then to character names(supposing a unique character name system is in work, which there should be) and to whatever else helps pinpoint someone's in-game identity... at the very least.
EA already has a similar system for Battlefields' Forums. Unique names, Forums account tied to game account too.. If my memory doesn't fail me.
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Canucklehead73
Guest
Well all I can say is he is going to learn zero information about why he is losing customers, if he doesn't want to hear why they are leaving. What is he hoping to do? Just make random changes to the games until his customers stop leaving? What a plan! Who hired this guy?
You don't have to care that someone called you an idiot, just why they said it. You don't even have to respond to any posts, just read em...
You don't have to care that someone called you an idiot, just why they said it. You don't even have to respond to any posts, just read em...
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Mitzlplik_SP
Guest
Gold sellin in WAR is a nono? GOOD,I`ll hafta report that dirt bag spammin me with tells every 5 minutes.That pissed me off,loggin into the game the second day after it went live to get some tard sendin tells for WAR gold 13 bux for 10 gold.
As for the original topic.I think alot are looking to much into the word "official"
I bet alot more unofficial sites are surfed by devs than you`s think. Everyones stuck on the official forums thing and to me its pointless.What difference does it make if somethings posted on Stratics (where devs post and surf) or on an official site?
As for UO.com`s old boards,those would have been great if it weren`t for the way they were controlled.Free speech was not tolerated.If it wasn`t about candy and carebears it got deleted.I do agree that if there was an official forum your game info should be tied to it in order to post but the voices of the unhappy should not be deleted or edited provided they weren`t breaking any of the ToS.
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Ozymandies
Guest
Read the MJ thing.
Translation: "Shut up and play the game or quit"
Not very endearing.
OZ
Translation: "Shut up and play the game or quit"
Not very endearing.
OZ
The problem with the "just quit" argument is that people are invested in their game. People playing these games don't see themselves as just customers - they're citizens (and goodness knows, the game is designed to give delusions of ownership over your pixels - "pay us or we'll burn down your house"). Yes, at the end of the day, the only leverage people have to get changes made is the threaten to quit. But you can't improve the game that way (and by the way, to me, quitting UO equates to quitting EA - I'd blacklist the whole company)
Sometimes people just need to get together and talk about the game itself. The time and attention we've committed makes this more than just a game - it's a community, a hobby, a passion. Perhaps there will even come a day when things turn on their head and we organize as a community and employ EA to serve the community rather than just taking or leaving what we're given (essentially moving a management layer out of EA and into the community).
Sometimes people just need to get together and talk about the game itself. The time and attention we've committed makes this more than just a game - it's a community, a hobby, a passion. Perhaps there will even come a day when things turn on their head and we organize as a community and employ EA to serve the community rather than just taking or leaving what we're given (essentially moving a management layer out of EA and into the community).
Funny, because to me read more like an ultimatum in this line of thinking;
"We made a game and you bought it. You don't pancake at Single Player games' Developers THIS hard, you rather shelf the game. Since our game demands monthly fees and if our game delivers what was promised, either shelf it or play. Your virtual possessions are basically ours anyway. If you have a proposal simply contact us through the boards. If you quit let us know why, through the appropriate form.".
"We made a game and you bought it. You don't pancake at Single Player games' Developers THIS hard, you rather shelf the game. Since our game demands monthly fees and if our game delivers what was promised, either shelf it or play. Your virtual possessions are basically ours anyway. If you have a proposal simply contact us through the boards. If you quit let us know why, through the appropriate form.".
As good as any post to demonstrate the correctness of his assertions.
You go out of your way to create a nice, greased path that ends up where you want it to end.
Problem is it is all fantasy on your part. Why? Simple, you deliberately (see how easy it is to make some one the villain?) chose to obfuscate/ignore the "Accountable to who" REALITY.
YOU deliberately chose to make it the "Subscribers". How naive, as though YOU really think WE decide if and how much his salary is, his bonus is, his raise is.
Now comes trhe reality, Every one answers to some one. This guy is accountable to ONLY HIS BOSS
no one else.I give you X amount of money to run a business. You honestly think I am going to go around you and check with your customers to see how much you should be being paid, how much your bonus should be, how much your next raise is going to be?
A clue, I am going to give you expectations to meet, if you do NOT meet them and YOU do NOT have adequate reasons Heck maybe if you do have good reason) I WILL REPLACE YOU. If you DO MEET THEM, then I will REWARD YOU.
Just exactly who do YOU think YOUR ACCOUNTABLE TO? If it is NOT ME (the one employing you) then YOU ARE FIRED.
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Lord Kynd
Guest
eww
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Lord Kynd
Guest
can you possiably point me to where in the main poster's post is this in any way shape or form having to do with any of what you said ?
or are you just on a personal rant about this stuff ?
I whole-heartedly agree with what Mark is saying. I too,work in a service oriented job where contact with very rude and self-centered "customers" are common. There is a line between where the "customer is always right" and where laws are broken (Yes it IS against the law to threaten to harm an employee of any company) It is my opinion that anyone hat feels entitled to unleash any verbal abuse at someone that provides you any type of service needs to get a clue. Try working on the employees side of things for a while to actually know how its like to be treated like dirt on someones shoe.
First of all, I agree with pretty much everything he said.
Secondly, I'd like to see him bring his (insert one of the many Rock's smackdown comments here) and actually post here..... Jeremy, you tell him that.
For all his bravado and supposed straight talk, he spends all his time everywhere else, but here.
Secondly, I'd like to see him bring his (insert one of the many Rock's smackdown comments here) and actually post here..... Jeremy, you tell him that.
For all his bravado and supposed straight talk, he spends all his time everywhere else, but here.
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Crystal Canyon
Guest
To begin with. the person doing the interview ask him a very simple question:As good as any post to demonstrate the correctness of his assertions.
You go out of your way to create a nice, greased path that ends up where you want it to end.
Problem is it is all fantasy on your part. Why? Simple, you deliberately (see how easy it is to make some one the villain?) chose to obfuscate/ignore the "Accountable to who" REALITY.
YOU deliberately chose to make it the "Subscribers". How naive, as though YOU really think WE decide if and how much his salary is, his bonus is, his raise is.
Now comes trhe reality, Every one answers to some one. This guy is accountable to ONLY HIS BOSS
I give you X amount of money to run a business. You honestly think I am going to go around you and check with your customers to see how much you should be being paid, how much your bonus should be, how much your next raise is going to be?
A clue, I am going to give you expectations to meet, if you do NOT meet them and YOU do NOT have adequate reasons Heck maybe if you do have good reason) I WILL REPLACE YOU. If you DO MEET THEM, then I will REWARD YOU.
Just exactly who do YOU think YOUR ACCOUNTABLE TO? If it is NOT ME (the one employing you) then YOU ARE FIRED.
What does he do? LOL...the same thing many people do when they dont want to answer the question...he first asks, "what is accountability?" Shouldnt a man in his position understand that word to begin with? Yes, he should, but he does this so that he can come up with an answer that will detour the orginal question. Then he asks another question, using the word in a way that HE wants to use it as...not as he was asked about it.
Not in any of his reply did he answer the question..."are they using the excuse for not having an offical forum as a way to avoid answering to the players about the company and game issues?"
He never answered this question at all. Instead HE tried to divert the word accountibility on to the players making it look as though they couldnt do thier job because the players on the boards were so horrible. No where in there did I see anything about " the company avoiding responsibility for the game issues...just they were avoiding the horrible , deranged, players on the boards...aka...thier customers.
No sir, HE deliberately chose to make it the subscribers, not I. Read it again.
And,Yes...we do help decide this mans salary, bonsuses, and raises. How do you think his pay scale is decided? It is contingent on how much revenue the company aquires. How does the company make thier money....LOL...from us, the paying customers!
From: http://onlinegamesareanichemarket.w...e-ho-off-the-servers-yo-a-banning-we-will-go/
Too bad we don't see this kind of effort in UO.... and we wonder where our money in monthly fees is going to pay.... Care to answer that Mr. Jacobs?Mark Jacobs said:
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Anjeel
Guest
I hate to break it to you but War is awesome and plays awesome. You can keep rehashing why the careers and cities were removed but I personally think, especially the city changes, that it is going to make for a better game. I also have no doubt that the careers that are not currently in, will be in the future and I can't wait to play a Black Guard.
Please don't "call him out" ... that tends to only feed his argument.
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AesSedai
Guest
- Now that is the idealistic attitude I like to see from someone in charge of games, in charge of massive gaming! Bravo, Mark Jacobs.
As to what that says about [EA] Mythic's commitment to UO...
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?
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Coppelia
Guest
Because gold spammers use their real names,
Because the reputation of a real name means something ig,
Because GMs can't do any mistake,
Because there isn't many of them,
It's great to brag ig about one ban.
Mark Jacobs = ******** cowboy. We T-Rex pwns cowboys anyday so gtho of gaming industry.
Because the reputation of a real name means something ig,
Because GMs can't do any mistake,
Because there isn't many of them,
It's great to brag ig about one ban.
Mark Jacobs = ******** cowboy. We T-Rex pwns cowboys anyday so gtho of gaming industry.
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Mitzlplik_SP
Guest
The biggest percent of these threads are rediculous.You all act like your the senate and MJ or anyone else is in the hot seat owing you an explanation for whatever it is you feel wronged over.Truth is UO is a very small part of what makes the EA/Mythic world go around.Get used to it.Is it right?No,but what do you expect with a game and coding that might as well be considered ancient at these times.Be glad you can still log in.
Its comical reading someone without a face calling out an executive on some forums.Just who do YOU think you are?A faceless attitude spending $13 a month thinking that entitles YOU to some answers.I think not,I mean we do play a fantasy game,but do you live in a fantasy world?
If I was part of the EA/Mythic team I`d tell all not to bother posting on these boards.Lately these boards resemble the flamming dribble that made me swear off VN.Just a bunch of rants and holier than though posts about how bad the devs and higher ups are.If you peaple are that unhappy with UO,move along,go away and.....gimme your stuff,cause its what you make of it.I`m still havin fun.
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Crystal Canyon
Guest
Hmmmm....are you Mark Jacobs in disguise?rolleyes:
Fine, you convinced me,
Let me know when his job revue is up and we the UO community are the ones he is facing.
Let me know when we are all going to get together and decide what his bonus and raise will be.
Let me know when and were the UO meeting / interview with the man was when we decided to hire him.
I was not really going to ..... make your lack of understanding so apparent but the ... well naive reply you persisted in indicates a reply is in order.
So what if the man was DIRECTED to, by the REAL BOSS's and not your fantasy that the subscribers are running the boat, DIRECTED HIM TO REMOVE UO? Well according to YOUR FANTASY WORLD, that CAN NOT HAPPEN AS WE ARE THE BOSS'S.
Well the EA Board of Directors NEED TO FIRE US AS WE HAVE OBVIOUSLY PROVEN WE CAN NOT SUCCESSFULLY MANAGE UO. I mean WE ARE THE BOSS's ACCORDING TO YOUR FANTASY.
Now back to reality, on the other hand the man stated clearly(AS IN REALITY NOT FANTASY) and simply what our options are. Any number of people CLEARLY demonstrate JUST HOW CORRECT HIS POSITION IS, in this specific case by persisting a fantasy that WE ARE IN CONTROL OF THE BUSINESS.
In your fantasy world, I guess you go to the local Gas Stations and tell them to Lower the Price of gas to $1.00 a Gallon and EXPECT THEM TO COMPLY rather than LAUGH THEIR BUTTS OFF AT YOU. If they choose to be Politically Correct / Show consideration to a NAIVE customer, they will tell you to VOTE WITH YOUR CREDIT CARD AND NOT BUY THEIR GAS.
Time, as with all things EA, will tell.
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Crystal Canyon
Guest
LOL...I love your reply...actually both of them. But there a couple problems here.
First, the only thing you have done here is to support his theory that the players cant simply reply to a thread with thier opinions, they have to cross the line into something more personal. (Which is his reason for not having an offical forum.)
Second problem:
I dont think you actaully comprehended what I said about the customers helping to decide his pay. Because this is what I said:
Do you think a company would pay an employee 500,000 a year if they are only generating about 1 mil a year themselfs? I doubt it. But...what if the company is making 50 mil a year? Yes, then they might. How would this company go from 1 mil a year to 50? By MORE PAYING CUSTOMERS!
The key word in my statement here was "help". I dont know if you seen this or not, but at any rate, it doesnt matter what company it is, paying customers generate thier income. It is a simple formula:
Company= customers= money
Company - Customers = NO money
Company - Customers - Money = No Company
I think he must be the very first person I have ever seen that basically told the customers, "if you dont like it leave."
I think this statement is what caused alot of people to dislike the entire article and everything he had to say after that just went "mute."
The thing I have done here is to point out HIS ASSERTION that it is pointless to post in a forum as people will INTENTIONALLY DISTORT ANY STATEMENT TO SUIT THEIR PERSONAL AGENDA. Which of course is exactly what is being done here.
What was said was, "Vote with your Credit Card". The REALISTIC and SIMPLE truth.
I say again, you believe you can march right up to the Gas Station attendant and demand they reduce the price of gas to $1.00 US and EXPECT THEM TO COMPLY. You are after all the CUSTOMER RIGHT? You think it is clever to use the ... very old tactic of ... lets Obfuscate the issue by going existential and saying invoking the Butterfly Effect. In short lets throw up a lot of white noise about how we the customers are the ones hiring, firing employees of companies as that is the ONLY form of income that a company has and ALL COMPANIES HAVE NO EXPENSES, you know that NASTY SET OF ACCOUNTS THAT SUBTRACT FROM THE INCOME ACCOUNT(s). Go bone up on the U.S. Commodity Market, if you want your eyes wide open.
The one and ONLY choice you have is to "VOTE WITH YOUR CREDIT CARD".
You will accept the absurdity of the later (The Gas Station) and yet deliberately pervert the persons IDENTICAL STATEMENT to demean him, prove beyond any doubt that HE IS DRIVING CUSTOMERS AWAY.
Because you clearly identify that the Gas Station Scenario is absurd, you reveal/,make it clear that you "GET IT".
This in turn reveals/makes it clear, you are DELIBERATELY perverting an IDENTICAL statement/scenario to further your personal agenda.
So lets NOT pretend you have NOT made it perfectly clear what your goal is, TO ATTACK THE PERSON, TO DEMEAN THE PERSON. To VENT YOUR SPLEEN. In short to do EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID YOU WOULD DO.
Great quote but I think Justin-Bobby said it best, "Truth and time tell all."
*laughs*
I decided today I'm not gonna sweat it with all this hype over what Mr. Jacobs feels about the community. We are still here, we still have a collective voice and the majority do in fact love this game. If we were not here many issues would never have been addressed and this game would have faltered to a halt a long long time ago. Go us! *gets out poms*
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Crystal Canyon
Guest
You must be reading someone elses thread here:
Where, pray tell, are you coming up with this stuff? LOL NO where in any thread I have posted or anything I have said do I accept your (to use one of YOUR fantasy phrases here) FANTASY gas stations senerio....it is absurd and doesnt pertain to my point whatsoever.
If you can show me where I do, then I can reply to this nonesense , but if you cant...
No lets not pretend...that the fact is I came into this thread and gave my opinion on what the man said and the article...YOu on the other hand, came into this thread and ATTACKED my opinion.
Get off it already, wo your opinion is that he was right in saying what he did, mine is that if he really means what he said, they company is in trouble. Stop putting words into my mouth...I will only spit them back out!
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Crystal Canyon
Guest
Great quote, and yes, these boards , IMO, are the reason we are all still here doing what we love to do...play UO!
LOL...Yes, go US!
His statement is not being distorted here. His statement isn't even open for a lot of interpretation, unless, of course, you take the stance that asking for what the definition of the word "is" is as valid argumentation and debate.
I'll grant you "simple." It's a very simple truth. We "vote" with our credit cards in that if we continue to pay for the game, we continue to support its livelihood, regardless of how that comes.
Realistically, we do not vote with our credit cards. Anyone, from Richard Garriot, to Designer Dragon, to (gods help me that I'm actually invoking his name without vomit following) Tom Chilton knows that the formula for MMOGs is not as simple as "Paying Customer = Happy Customer." However, by Mark Jacobs' own (using your words now against you) FANTASY WORLD, that is the very equation he would expect us to believe is true, because in his world, the obverse of that statement is "Unhappy Customer = Non-Paying Customer," which is a ludicrous stance to take.
You're being ridiculous here. They aren't even the same markets. That's like saying just because I can send food back to a kitchen if it's improperly prepared that I should expect a barbershop to purchase me a toupee if they screw up my haircut. You can, in any situation, make demands, sure. The question is whether or not they are realistic demands.
Let's try this on a more comparable note then. You go to a movie. It's rated PG. Halfway through, there's a graphic sex scene that somehow made it into reel production. Can you go get your money back? Sure... it's not the product you expected.
MMOGs are a unique beast because they are persistent worlds. You almost have to compare it to the real world to make valid comparisons. If there was a sewage treatment plant in your back yard that was causing fumes to enter your house, and there was something wrong with the generator that caused loud noises, could you and your neighbors take a stand to make sure it got fixed? Absolutely.
MMOGs are a persistent thing. In order to keep them persistent with customers, they must adapt and change to the playerbase. Yes, there are certain core components that are unlikely to change (but as SWG shows us, going from skill to level grind isn't even a sacred "not going to happen"). Developers have a RESPONSIBILITY to both the customer base AND the company they work for to keep the game innovative and fresh in order to keep subscriptions up and the game viable.
No viable game, no customers, no revenue stream.
I find it interesting that you claim the use of the "Butterfly Effect" when you, yourself, are doing that very thing. The equation provided was, in fact, true. Without the paying customers, there is no subscription revenue for the game to continue with. Certainly anyone in charge of an MMOG is paid commensurate to how that MMOG is doing. They aren't going to put someone in that's making more than the MMOG can realistically support by way of salary (which is why our DevTeam is pathetically small at the moment, despite claims that subscriptions are up).
Wrong. Ding. Thanks for playing. Other games, and UO itself, have proven time and again that raising points about game development and open communication can and DO change the ways in which the game is developed. Argue about that FACT all day, you'll still come out wrong. Just by UO alone, I have a little thing called proof. Trammel.
See, Mark Jacobs took a wide swathe approach to his customer base. Are all forum posters going to make death threats? No. Are a majority of them going to do so? No. Are more than say .001% of them going to? Highly unlikely.
But to him, we're all the same.
And apparently he needs a teddy bear to hug at night, because I strongly suspect that even something most people would term "strong criticism" would be noted as an "attack" by Jacobs. Yes, people get emotional and passionate about the games they spend their money on. Big deal. Sometimes you have to give yourself a thicker shell, and look into what's being stated.
While some people say it would be hard to read negatives day in and day out without letting it affect you, I say that's a bunch of balogna. If it's not something you personally control -- whether it's directed at you or not -- you have the CHOICE in how you take what you read.
And no, no one will ever please EVERYONE, but when you see a large group of people vocal on a particular subject, you had damned well better sit down and do some research and determine if there's a real problem as well as a viable solution.
I think it's funny that in order to detract from Jacobs' obvious shortcomings as a spokesperson for any game that you are stuck on gas stations. Quit fuming.
I don't think we've been reading the same thing, and if we have been, you're certainly interpreting it with a heavy load of bias in order to support your own (weak) argument.
Uh... you're putting a lot more vim and vitriol into the "attack" than exists.
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RavenWinterHawk
Guest
I dont feel disrespected. You opinion is fine. But my opininion or game attitude has nothing to do with why people cheat, script or dupe. If it did, Id fix the economy right now. Peoples own actions effect the game. Do you really think if I said (and I do) cheating is bad... it would slow cheating down.
Human nature baby. The easy road. Subprime mortgages.
And anyway, I meant to each his own as in why you play the game.
Afterall, its a game. If gold is scares, inflated, changed or whatever. It doesnt really matter. The game would still exist. If you wiped the servers. The game issues would all return. If you fixed cheating, duping, and scripting....
You would still have items sold. Why? Human beings are playing. There will always be sellers and buyers. You cant fix that.
This is a polarized statement. To each his own doesnt mean you dont turn in cheaters. It means pay and play as you wish. There is a lot in between. I dont care if people script making potions. I do care if they do script complete battle sequences. I dont care if some dupes fish stakes. I do care if the dupe gold.
You do know cheats dont fear being caught right? A piece of the game is the cheat. You get caught. You start over. Ultimate death. Begin again.
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Capricious
Guest
Well said. Personally there is a huge difference in attacking someone personally and attacking what they did. Most folks can be taught to show anger, disappointment, etc constructively rather than without purpose.
Far as having UO forums. Won't happen it seems, but I think it would be a step to helping strengthen the community. If someone steps out of line with death threats then you give them a temp ban (with their uo account). Chances are if they are a ______ on the boards, they are a _____ in game as well. Personally I think the boards might be a lot nicer if only paying UO players had access to post on the boards with the exception of a board for "potential" players to ask questions for hardware, expansion buying info etc. The only way it would work is if the staff gave a lot of active feedback and communication... honestly most anger arises not at the problem, but at the lack of communication. I've had 10+ years in management/CS and I've seen some pissed off customers in my day, some rightfully so and others not. However, in all circumstances I was almost always to bring their level of anger down and keep them happy with the company even if I didn't give them what they wanted. How? It's called listening, empathizing, taking responsibility and promptly fixing what you can. You know I really think the anger, bitterness, etc on these forums would drop a lot if we felt like they really cared about the game and it wasn't just a dollar sign to them.
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Crystal Canyon
Guest
Well this is how the posts were put up and I think my responses quoted here are abit out of sequence, besides the fact that part of what is quoted I didnt say LOL...(just an error in quoting I beleive)):
Your reply was:
Then I replied back with:
You also say:
I have to totally disagree with this. I think that the main reason for making rules against cetain activities in game is for the good of the game and its contining success. Rules are made so that you dont "pay and play as you wish." Rules are made to stop people from doing just that.
And I do care if people dupe anything, doesnt matter to me if it is gold or fishsteaks...its wrong and it is against the rules of the game.
All in all, it is simply a matter of "difference of opinon," and yes, I do like to respectfully debate. Thank you for your response!
C
Crystal Canyon
Guest
Your experience in management really shows in what you have just said.
And the listening part...that is right on the spot. That is exactly what we are trying to say...you have to at least listen!
If there are no boards, no way to tell a company what we think is wrong, there can be no changes made or explanations given. If there is no explanation for what we feel is wrong, we would all eventually do what he suggested and simply leave the game.
Mark Jacobs is basically right. Forums like this are 99% ******* screaming at each other. They represent nothing but the noisiest 1% of the playerbase all trying to lobby for whatever gets their rocks off. How many ******** "PETITION TO REMOVE TRAM" threads have we sat through over the years? How many "BRING BACK THIEVING" threads get posted over and over by the same three guys? It's crap.
Like I said, I agree mostly with what he is saying. I just want to know when it's going to happen in UO or be applied to UO.
He's active on the DAoC and WAR forums, but not the UO ones? In his blog he mentions DAoC and not UO.
So, just where does UO rank on Mythic's priority list? Given his actions, it appears pretty clear.
He doesn't even have an account on Stratics.
Let us focus it here as you clearly demonstrate that any thing you do not agree with is basically unsaid. It is a way of arguing but wont get you anywhere. To claim a thing is invalid and to believe others will accept it is ... well interesting.
Hum, day care psycho babble as in I am a mirror what ever you say reflects off me and sticks to you. I do get your message, it wasn't as though you needed to make it blatant.
Whoa, a major rewrite of your posture is in progress, but enough of the REAL truth is left there to bring you BACK to your baseline.
You did NOT express an opinion per se, YOU DID pervert the audience his remark was made at, TO SUIT YOUR OWN AGENDA. TO PROVE "they company is in trouble", as in the person is Killing UO. You deliberately attacked the person by purposefully perverting his context to meet your own ends.
The exact justification he uses to say NO to a UO Forum.
It does NOT go unnoticed in your fantasy that the person is Hired by the UO community, Paid by the UO community, is 100% accountable TO the UO community and NO ONE ELSE, that you cleverly side step the scenario of "What if HE IS DIRECTED to end UO bt EA?"
BUT WAIT, that could never be the case, because for your fantasy to hold up, EVERYONE MUST BE ACCOUNTABLE TO ONLY THE SUBSCRIBERS.
Your opinion is NOT what this is about, but no doubt you are wishing it were. It is your deliberate perversion of the persons comments, to further your own agenda. I fully understand the anxiety that being caught doing that brings you. It is no doubt the reason your needing to now resort to Daycare Psycho Babble.
IF I were in your boat, I SURE AS HADES would want to dismiss the Gas Station scenario as totally not relevant. The why is ever so simple, it so simply demonstrates that the ONLY REAL OPTION we have is TO VOTE WITH OUR CREDIT CARDS. That your posturing of "WE RUN EA" is in fact shown to be as ridiculous as the Gas Station scenario's Laughing their Butt off at your demand to lower the price of gas.
We have one REAL choice, the rest is total fantasy. We accept they are driving the boat. Our choice is a simple one, we either stay in the boat OR WE JUMP SHIP. YOU persist, in saying the people in the BOAT MUST TELL THE CAPTAIN OF THE BOAT what to do, that the PEOPLE IN THE RESTAURANT MUST TELL THE CHIEF WHAT TO DO.
Your Posture and Goal is clear.
C
Crystal Canyon
Guest
Please tell me how one would go about disagreeing with something that was unsaid???? LOL...it had to have been said or I wouldnt have known what to disagree with...correct?
Hun, with all due respect here, it sounds to me like your trying put together phrases that make yourself sound intellegent and to keep a disagreement going by turning it into an arguement, but these phrases are honestly not making any sense whatsoever.
The entire rest of your post is gibbily goo, that no one could understand if they had to. You insist on all these fantansy sencerios about gas stations, ships, captains, and even chefs now, and none of them pertain to anything that was said here by me or anyone else.
Put the Thesaraus down now and come back to realility. You and I disagree...Ive said that. I have not attacked anyone although you tried so hard to make it look that way....simple truth is, it didnt.
But your contining posts with all the gibberish is really begining to look as though your attacking me personaly instead of just my opinion. Combined with the fact that Im not the only person that felt a bit offended by this guys comments and posted saying so, and yet...Im the only person who you are blantanly attacking...hmmmmm
Take a chill pill and relax...everyone that uses Stratics is not going to agree with you everytime you post...get used to it.
BTW...Having an intellegent and honorable disagreement does not include making a post, waiting for a response, then going back in and changing your original post...especially after someone has already copied and pasted what you intially wrote.
For this reason, our disagreement is over...I could care less what you think of my opinion on the subject.