POWER SCROLLS...

[EnigmaMaitreya]

...
And to those who say, if ya don't like the pvp and spawn pvp, just buy em? That's the whole problem right there...Monopolies, and the champ controlling guilds getting rich because the majority of the playerbase is forced to give them millions of gps (which are later sold for $) in order to have a chance of success, even in trammel.

What your saying/implying is that the Scripters/Gold Sellers, have an incentive to keep things they way they are?

Would that imply that some, if not all, Champion Spawn Owning, Zerg (we don't care what your competence level, but lets keep hundreds of Meat on the Battle Field) Guilds may be in it for the Real Life Currency?

 

[Harb]

My recollection is that we were told "You will never have to have a powerscroll to compete"

That was the plan, yes. It was also the plan to relook the Fel only requirement, which didn't happen either. There isn't a "bad guy" in the genesis on this, skill requirements continued to evolve, and other priorities kept everyone from going back and fixing this. It's time to fix it, before SA hits shelves and we increase the influx of new players.

 

[Uriah Heep]

Catlord,

Don't get me wrong, It's not that i am against pvp, or pvp guilds. It's not my cup of tea, I don't have the mindset or the reaction time for it, and this I freely admit.
My argument, is that for far far too long, the economy of PSs has been handed to and controlled by a VAST VAST MINORITY of UO players. I have friends who are in champ guilds, and I still have this attitude about it.

If a select alliance or guild on a shard were to find a way to completely dominate the peerless spawns, denying almost every player access and/or success to them/at them, thereby FORCING the vast majority of the playerbase to buy all those items/arties/etc from them, (yes I know, Tram ruleset, etc etc, but for the sake of the point, IF) and making them rich beyond belief, don't you think you would hear a severe and loud outcry? (this is where you nod in agreement)
But yet, the devs set it up to do this exact thing with PSs, and its normal gameplay and working as intended...
Something ain't right here...

 

[Uriah Heep]

...
And to those who say, if ya don't like the pvp and spawn pvp, just buy em? That's the whole problem right there...Monopolies, and the champ controlling guilds getting rich because the majority of the playerbase is forced to give them millions of gps (which are later sold for $) in order to have a chance of success, even in trammel.

What your saying/implying is that the Scripters/Gold Sellers, have an incentive to keep things they way they are?

Would that imply that some, if not all, Champion Spawn Owning, Zerg (we don't care what your competence level, but lets keep hundreds of Meat on the Battle Field) Guilds may be in it for the Real Life Currency?

Is that a big secret?


Was I the only one to figure this out? keyword is "some" not all, "some", and not all guilds, just "some" members. NO idea why the devs can't figure this out, if it was the glory of the spawn they liked, they could get that in Ilsh as well as in fel. If its the pvp they liked, they can kill each other anywhere they find each other.
But it's more, it control, its power, and it's riches...that some convert to $.
they can deny all they want, but anyone who has seen behind the scenes knows.
And no, I won't name names. But I will kiss and tell

 

[DevilsOwn]

Like Harb said, 120 scrolls are the top of the mountain as far as raising skills. But with the current game landscape, there isn't a way for most players to climb that mountain themselves.

Sure, you can go kill the same low level monster thousands of times to get a scroll. But that's like walking up the first 10 feet of Everest a couple thousand times and then getting a certificate saying you effectively reached the peak. It's much more monotonous and much less rewarding than reaching the summit yourself.

this said it perfectly for me, thank you... we used to do the spawns, before the ghost cams and raiders, and had a lot of fun, and deathrobes, doing it.. can buy them, yes, but it ain't the same

 

[CatLord]

Catlord,... Something ain't right here...

I know it... you know it... majority knows it... Devs know it?

 

[hawkeye_pike]

I know it... you know it... majority knows it... Devs know it?

They hopefully do. I also hope they prioritize this issue accordingly, as it does constant damage to the game and its economy.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

...
And to those who say, if ya don't like the pvp and spawn pvp, just buy em? That's the whole problem right there...Monopolies, and the champ controlling guilds getting rich because the majority of the playerbase is forced to give them millions of gps (which are later sold for $) in order to have a chance of success, even in trammel.

What your saying/implying is that the Scripters/Gold Sellers, have an incentive to keep things they way they are?

Would that imply that some, if not all, Champion Spawn Owning, Zerg (we don't care what your competence level, but lets keep hundreds of Meat on the Battle Field) Guilds may be in it for the Real Life Currency?

Is that a big secret?


Was I the only one to figure this out? keyword is "some" not all, "some", and not all guilds, just "some" members. NO idea why the devs can't figure this out, if it was the glory of the spawn they liked, they could get that in Ilsh as well as in fel. If its the pvp they liked, they can kill each other anywhere they find each other.
But it's more, it control, its power, and it's riches...that some convert to $.
they can deny all they want, but anyone who has seen behind the scenes knows.
And no, I won't name names. But I will kiss and tell

No, say it ain't so .....

You mean to say, that what was projected, 3 years ago, to be a $1,000,000,000+ (YES 1 BILLION U.S. DOLLARS), annual sales of (implicitly (AKA Game Currency) and/or Direct) Game Items, external of the game, World Wide, For all MMORPG's, would create an environment, were people will do what ever it takes, to continue to capitalize on that market?

No, say it ain't so .....

That the majority of these "Boss's", hire people to do the work and pay them on average $0.50 per hour?

The the majority of the workers are in Asian countries?

Huh, now who would have ever thunk of that.

The Icy Cold, Bony Hand, that holds the Heart Beat of UO, should be EA/M, directly. IF it is NOT then shame on them for missing out on that .... revenue stream and letting it go to ..... others.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

What if...?
LBODS rewards were random skill powerscrolls and not smithing/tailoring?

after 2 weeks, they would be worthless and people would be throwing 120 magery on the ground.

 

[It Lives]

Make a "Ultimate power Scroll" title ultimate warrior for swords skill. 130 ps (just an example)

Give me something to do again ,,,,,,,,,,,Only one skill can be scrolled(same ole skill caps 720). One per char.

Make the scroll an award for pvp, used only in fel, cant be brought to tram.

The skill is brought back to 120 when coming to tram.

Then let tram have some scroll love for freaking sakes.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

Make a "Ultimate power Scroll" title ultimate warrior for swords skill. 130 ps (just an example)

Give me something to do again ,,,,,,,,,,,Only one skill can be scrolled(same ole skill caps 720). One per char.

Make the scroll an award for pvp, used only in fel, cant be brought to tram.

The skill is brought back to 120 when coming to tram.

Then let tram have some scroll love for freaking sakes.

The way I see it:

• I already consider 120 power scrolls pretty useless in most cases. The advantage fo 120 above 110 skill is so minimal it doesn't really affect PvP much.
• 98% of the players don't want to go to Felucca, as long as there's rule bending and cheating in this facet. Even 130 scrolls wouldn't change that.
• Why limit the scrolls to Felucca players? To make mass-ganking of Trammel adventurers even more easy? Aren't speed hacks and other cheats enough already? This surely wouldn't help bringing Trammel players to Felucca.

 

[It Lives]

I was "just sorta in general"( I am sure there are better Ideas out there), just throwing out a bone.... something for something.

Imo the scrolls need better placement than just fel.

 

[Wenchkin]

Oh dear, we've moved into a "let's grab scrolls from Fel' thread again...

If I can easily obtain powerscrolls, anyone can. You do not need them brought to your feet, you need to get yourselves motivated and figure out ways that you can get yourselves those scrolls. It never fails to amaze me how defeatist UO players are these days. Oh look, a challenge! EEEEEP! Quick, let's demand it is easy on UHall.

I don't even do regular champing yet I had 2 secures full of scrolls that went into spring cleaning. Even after spring cleaning there is a plentiful supply in Tram on vendors. Yes, they're controlled by small groups of players. Yikes, maybe the zergs recruited me without my knowledge or consent! Sheesh...

As for the line that PS all come from cheats - the minute anyone suggests a BRSK came from a cheat, he has instant supporters yelling he's innocent till proven guilty. It's the same with powerscroll sellers, without the folks defending their innocence. I've sold PS on and off for years, I know their sources and all were good decent proper PvPers or earned by myself. The problem here is players who refuse to think of ways to acquire something, and won't accept that there are good players in Fel they can trade with. I sincerely hope that negative attitude to Fel players isn't rewarded by EA giving in to these posts.

And I love how it's always a case of let's take away from Fel without considering consequences for that facet or offering anything in return. Heaven help a Fel player who suggested stealing the doom arties from Malas

Wenchy

 

[Fizzleton]

We might come back to the point perhaps?

1) Powerscrolls come soleley from fel champ spawns atm.
2) Champs are controlled by few guilds.
3) UO players depend therefore very much on the behaviour of that guilds - if they give away scrolls for free, if they sell them etc. etc. It is very difficult for any newcomer (with say some months of gameplay) to get them on their own (as a game reward, not a buy off a vendor!)
4) Therefore, how can we adress this problem, by giving the newcomer the possibility to get the scrolls through gameplay, and not touching the champ system (which is a good one imho; I played both sides, the ones who were raided, and the ones who raided; and while I was with a pvp-guild on my shard raiding champs, we never used ghost-cams or cheats; we simply had stealthers looking for champs in progress and directing the forces to the most rewarding sites - check despise, deceit, destard and the LL, and you will get 99% of the champs done!)?

There are solutions for this. First, devide the scroll drops, as mentioned before. No veteran is after 105/110 scrolls, but the mid-range newb wants them. Does it make sense to force him to say "thank you" to veterans, since they are so nice to give them to him? Nope. He should be free to get them on his own. Therefore - let the Ilsh/Tokuno champs drop them; you also motivate those players to get to learn how to work a champ spawn, and motivate them to try their luck on the fel rule champs also. The fel champs remain the only source for 115/120 scrolls; this remains the benefit for the veterans, and should not be touched.

However, the "raiding"-thing is something that might be changed. There should be a penalty if you just come when the champ is up. Make drop-chances be linked to champ-levels defeated; lvl1 gives no right (too easy), lvl 2 1 scroll, etc. Defeating the champ gives still most, but players working the spawn to the champ should be rewarded for their efforts.

 

[Ericge99]

Your serious, right? You can gather 105 and 110 scrolls of the floor, at most spawn places, ie. despise. Also you can go to vendors, I sell them very cheap, so why go to places that sell them for heaps, try shopping around.
Power scrolls are FEL only, take them away from there and whats the point in going to fel? Just gets me when people want everything without actualy making chars or doing the spawns to earn things, this game is not gimmie, gimmie, try working for them, like everyone else has done! rolleyes:

 

[Wenchkin]

Fizzleton, I've picked up so many 5, 10 and a few 15 scrolls from the floor that I rarely bother anymore. I've simply stealthed around some champs after completion and picked up yet more scrolls. None of this is hard, or involves combat. Thus anyone can do it.

By all means add different rewards to Tram facet champs, but there's no need or point in making them powerscrolls. If it's not a new reward, chances are folk will get bored within a week, and again we'll have deserted champs that nobody does. Just in the interim Fel gets shafted.

The rewards in Tram (and Fel) champs and ilshy arties should have changed from time to time to maintain interest from players, and in Fel there should be other ways to obtain scrolls to prevent anyone from claiming zerg x pwns all their facet's scrolls. I think we need a change from the bash predictable spawns ad nauseum method of getting high end items.

Overland mini-champ spawns randomly popping up would be one example. Make them pop on Tram and Fel then everyone can get said items where they want to hunt.

The only possible way I'd support something like PS in Tram is if the Fel champs were condensed to far fewer locations and our dungeons repaired and given some love again. And a share of the stacks of items which spawn solely in Tram and new content after that. Because when you look at the state of Fel dungeons and T2A, then think the whole mess will soon be unused, it's not what you'd want for your home facet. I didn't want that mess made in the first place. It's one thing to say "give us Fel stuff" but I want to see proposals for effectively compensating for the loss of that exclusive content in Fel. Not just one-way traffic.

Wenchy

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

....
By all means add different rewards to Tram facet champs, but there's no need or point in making them powerscrolls. If it's not a new reward, chances are folk will get bored within a week, and again we'll have deserted champs that nobody does. Just in the interim Fel gets shafted.
...
The only possible way I'd support something like PS in Tram is if the Fel champs were condensed to far fewer locations and our dungeons repaired and given some love again. And a share of the stacks of items which spawn solely in Tram and new content after that.

Wenchy

To hear the argument to NOT put the PS's in Trammel, one would think the sole reason that PvP exists in Felucca is to ... Drum Roll .... Do the Power Scrolls.

YET, we hear how they are laying on the floor, obviously of no value to anyone. We hear of how there are many secures of the PS's that were turned in, obviously of no value to anyone.

THEN, why do they continue to do the Power Scrolls if they HAVE NO VALUE TO ANYONE? I mean it couldn't be

a) They DO HAVE REAL LIFE CURRENCY VALUE.
b) Gank, Hack, Cheat, Exploit PvP value or perhaps more politically correct, lets say ANYTHING BUT Player vs Player PvP.

They argue that the PS's have NO VALUE yet they argue(sorry I can not resist and it is truly just rhetoric) these pixels will make or break Felucca and after all it is just a game

------------

Ok, so your in return Felucca gets equality with Trammel, in terms of Items, dungeons etc.

IF the mind set that one side must have things the other side does NOT HAVE is dropped, abandoned, removed, then perhaps everyone wins. I can not see any real value or reason to have the two facets defined this way. It should be sufficient to be defined as a PvP facet and a NON PvP facet. This makes it simple and as a generalization "Keep it simple stupid" tends to be the best solution.

And a share of the stacks of items which spawn solely in Tram and new content after that.

I am not clear what the spirit of that statement is. I assume that it is, a request to keep Felucca and Trammel identical except for the PvP and NON PvP distinction.

 

[Connor_Graham]

To hear the argument to NOT put the PS's in Trammel, one would think the sole reason that PvP exists in Felucca is to ... Drum Roll .... Do the Power Scrolls.

The sole reason PvP exists in Fel is because that's the only place it's allowed.

The sole reason Power Scrolls are in Fel is because it's the only reward for PvP. Every playstyle has it's own unique rewards. PvP is no different.

YET, we hear how they are laying on the floor, obviously of no value to anyone. We hear of how there are many secures of the PS's that were turned in, obviously of no value to anyone.

Yep, you hear about the 105's and 110's that might sell for 1-2k on a vendor if you leave it on there for 6 months or so, after which time you've spent more in vendor fees than the scrolls are worth. It costs the vendor owner less gold in the long run just to drop them on the floor.

THEN, why do they continue to do the Power Scrolls if they HAVE NO VALUE TO ANYONE?

Because 115's and 120's also drop along with the ones that aren't worth putting on a vendor. I would have thought you would have known that since you're on some kind of holy mission to get them removed from Fel. I'd think you would have done your homework on the subject.

I mean it couldn't be

a) They DO HAVE REAL LIFE CURRENCY VALUE.

So do Doom artifacts, Crimson Cinctures, etc.....

b) Gank, Hack, Cheat, Exploit PvP value or perhaps more politically correct, lets say ANYTHING BUT Player vs Player PvP.

Damning all because of the actions of the few is pretty damn shortsighted, not to mention discriminatory. Although, you claim to be a PvP Tamer yourself, so according to your statment that means that you're one of the ganking, hacking, cheating, and exploiting PvP'rs, right?

They argue that the PS's have NO VALUE yet they argue(sorry I can not resist and it is truly just rhetoric) these pixels will make or break Felucca and after all it is just a game

They say 105's and 110's are the ones that hold no value, not all of them. If you're going to paraphrase what they're saying, include the whole of the statement, not just what suits your purpose.

 

[Harb]

The only possible way I'd support something like PS in Tram is if the Fel champs were condensed to far fewer locations and our dungeons repaired and given some love again. And a share of the stacks of items which spawn solely in Tram and new content after that. Because when you look at the state of Fel dungeons and T2A, then think the whole mess will soon be unused, it's not what you'd want for your home facet. I didn't want that mess made in the first place. It's one thing to say "give us Fel stuff" but I want to see proposals for effectively compensating for the loss of that exclusive content in Fel. Not just one-way traffic.

Wenchy

Wenchy, there are several significant differences/ considerations. Nothing prevents a "Fel player" from obtaining anything within the Tram rules set. The opposite isn't the case. Nothing spawns in Tram that doesn't spawn in Fel unless if you're talking about Doom and Ilsh for arties/ marties, which again, unlike scrolls everyone has access to. The same level of "love" is applied to dungeons on both facets, though in Fel, dungeon space is allocated to champs. If that isn't desired, by all means consolidate/ reset. As for the "give us Fel stuff," what's the point? Stuff should come from all areas of the game, and if something is unique to Fel specifically, it can lead to the same manipulation currently seen with scrolls. I do think the Fel rule set offers an opportunity to expand thief play. Put new collectible arties on beefed up NPCs to entice players. Include everything that has ever spawned all the way back to the "server-ups," but add artifact tags so as not to devalue originals. Spawn them rearely and randomly throughout all towns in Fel. Aside from that, having a georaphical restriction will lead to manipulation and control by small groups of players.

 

[Fizzleton]

Your serious, right? You can gather 105 and 110 scrolls of the floor, at most spawn places, ie. despise. Also you can go to vendors, I sell them very cheap, so why go to places that sell them for heaps, try shopping around.
Power scrolls are FEL only, take them away from there and whats the point in going to fel? Just gets me when people want everything without actualy making chars or doing the spawns to earn things, this game is not gimmie, gimmie, try working for them, like everyone else has done! rolleyes:

Are you able to read? I talked about mid-range newcomers, and their possibilities to earn their own scrolls through playing the game, AND NOT shopping or getting scrolls on the ground. According to my suggestion, these people have to work champ-spawns to get these scrolls, what is much more demanding than buying them or collecting them at the ground. It is the right challenge for people with moderate skills & gear. Or do you consider buying a 110 scroll for some gp from a vendor is "working for it"?
I stated clearly that 115/120 scrolls (and all stat scrolls, btw) remain to fel only. If you are overstrained with a differentiated argumentation, remain in your cave.

regards

 

[Fizzleton]

Fizzleton, I've picked up so many 5, 10 and a few 15 scrolls from the floor that I rarely bother anymore. I've simply stealthed around some champs after completion and picked up yet more scrolls. None of this is hard, or involves combat. Thus anyone can do it.

Hi Wenchy, I strongly believe that earning a scroll through fighting a champ spawn to the end is one of the most rewarding things uo has to offer. Surely you can stealth your scrolls away or find them for some gp on vendors, but this is nothing compared to getting them as a reward for your own fight. Now who really needs 110/105er scrolls? Beginners, those guys 'n dolls we don't see a lot these days. If we would decide to offer them on the tram champ spawns, we would not take away a lot from the vets (these get the really expensive ones still in fel, including stat scrolls). Instead, we give them in the hands of those to whom they really belong: Mid-range beginners with moderate gear/skills/experience, where fighting a champ spawn still is a challenge. We also get a completely new market; from no value at all atm (forgive me, but even a 110 magery sells for how many these days?) to quite some, since the surplus of 110er scrolls from fel champs is cut. So you again really have to work for them to get them.

I like some of your ideas, but I really think we should offer beginners more compared to that all or nothing scheme we follow atm.

 

[Wenchkin]

To hear the argument to NOT put the PS's in Trammel, one would think the sole reason that PvP exists in Felucca is to ... Drum Roll .... Do the Power Scrolls.

YET, we hear how they are laying on the floor, obviously of no value to anyone. We hear of how there are many secures of the PS's that were turned in, obviously of no value to anyone.

Well if we think logically about this... Powerscrolls do give players something to compete over, however they're not new content. We see lots of items dropped on the bank floor after they've been out a few years, as their value falls.

But in Tram, EA try to keep new content coming in to replace the old stuff. The reality is however, that Fel isn't always that fortunate. So unless that situation is corrected, I maintain that Fel should keep what it can.

IF the mind set that one side must have things the other side does NOT HAVE is dropped, abandoned, removed, then perhaps everyone wins. I can not see any real value or reason to have the two facets defined this way. It should be sufficient to be defined as a PvP facet and a NON PvP facet. This makes it simple and as a generalization "Keep it simple stupid" tends to be the best solution.

But it's ok to ask for a copy of the Fel items in Tram, and not ok for Fel as a minimum to get copies of Tram content?

If I had my ideal UO, Tram and Fel would be unique, with their own changing content and events and we'd all be able to pick from a wide range of activities and items. But reality here. We don't have that good fortune as Fel players. It's unrealistic to expect EA to devote time to developing Fel content, and unsupported by players from Tram who scream blue murder when we DO get something. So I'm being realistic suggesting we get at least a copy of Tram content. So at a minimum I can choose where I obtain said items even if I'd rather they were different.

I hope that clears up what I meant

Wenchy

 

[Wenchkin]

Wenchy, there are several significant differences/ considerations. Nothing prevents a "Fel player" from obtaining anything within the Tram rules set. The opposite isn't the case.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you there. The moongates work both ways

Nothing spawns in Tram that doesn't spawn in Fel unless if you're talking about Doom and Ilsh for arties/ marties, which again, unlike scrolls everyone has access to.

Well actually that's rather a lot of items, isn't it? Now of course, I can hop on my blue and go to Tram for them. But if a Tram player can say "I don't want to go to Fel with the meanie people" why can't I be allowed to want Tram items in MY ruleset of choice?

I've said this already, but I'd love unique content on either facet that we could use, but Fel has Factions, champs and double resources. We've had those for years. New content? We couldn't even get a turn in NPC for spring cleaning lol. If the players go where new content goes, it's no wonder Fel is running short of players. I want players to have fun in their facet of choice, which means content in Fel.

Each time there's an event there are calls about how hard it is to get near the spawn, how many players can get to something before the complainant. Yet when there is a mirror in Fel for content (eg the vangard spawns) you can hop to somewhere quieter in Fel instead. I got my mares there easily, but trying the same in Tram was nuts. It's times like those when EA need to realise that they could spread the action over multiple rulesets and give players choice and playing space.

As for the "give us Fel stuff," what's the point? Stuff should come from all areas of the game, and if something is unique to Fel specifically, it can lead to the same manipulation currently seen with scrolls.

Well at the time and today I still think the PS champ spawn were a lousy way to drop content into Fel. Champs aren't the only way that content could be added to Fel, and this is why I suggested something like randomised overland spawns which can't be camped, or rare drops on normal monsters. I think the virtue dungeon drops were a great idea. Also, I'm not talking about uber high end drops coming to Fel. Just fun, nice stuff.

I do think the Fel rule set offers an opportunity to expand thief play. Put new collectible arties on beefed up NPCs to entice players. Include everything that has ever spawned all the way back to the "server-ups," but add artifact tags so as not to devalue originals. Spawn them rearely and randomly throughout all towns in Fel. Aside from that, having a georaphical restriction will lead to manipulation and control by small groups of players.

Well thieves do need some love of pretty much any sort, though I'd like a balance between picking up items and town stealing and stealing from players or quests. But I do like the idea of stealing older items around towns, ideally with randomised spawn spots and items so it doesn't become like Doom where bots take the higher stuff. Randomised timers throughout the day would be a good idea too.

Wenchy

 

[Turdnugget]

The other day I was thinking it would be cool if powerscrolls spawned in Treasure Chests that you dig up...

Maybe only special maps you get from actual Champ Spawns have the ability to spawn a powerscroll in a chest. Not meaning everytime you use a map you get a scroll and it's a random one from 10/15/20.

Now they could make this kind of treasure hunt a little more difficult. Lots of balrons, lich lords, blood els demons etc... Make the fight a little tougher. T-hunters kinda get the shaft since all these other mobs w/high end loot came out. T-hunters used to be the shiznit. I mean, you gotta invest a whole template to be a good t-hunter and not just a couple skills.

Allow only these special maps looted from champ spawns to be used in Fel. Same risk involved, since someone can raid you...however, not as big a risk as a t-map has a lot of different locations to be dug up.

I personally think it could be a fun idea. It wouldn't flood the market TOO bad with powerscrolls, as the scrolls would spawn a random +10/15/20 and wouldn't spawn in EVERY t-chest from champ spawns. Plus, in order to even dig up that kind of chest, you have to have a t-map from the champ spawn... and that would either come from buying or doing a spawn yourself.

I think it would be a good way for those not wanting to HAVE to deal with guilds who have a hold down on spawns all day. It'd be kinda like an arty drop in Doom with regards to how often a scroll spawns in the chest. If they did it right, it's not like someone could just farm those all day... since you gotta get a map in the first place. And maps I imagine would sell for either a little, or a lot.

Getting scrolls from BODS would get abused so fast... the economy would spiral down even more.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

To hear the argument to NOT put the PS's in Trammel, one would think the sole reason that PvP exists in Felucca is to ... Drum Roll .... Do the Power Scrolls.

YET, we hear how they are laying on the floor, obviously of no value to anyone. We hear of how there are many secures of the PS's that were turned in, obviously of no value to anyone.

Well if we think logically about this... Powerscrolls do give players something to compete over, however they're not new content. We see lots of items dropped on the bank floor after they've been out a few years, as their value falls.

But in Tram, EA try to keep new content coming in to replace the old stuff. The reality is however, that Fel isn't always that fortunate. So unless that situation is corrected, I maintain that Fel should keep what it can.

IF the mind set that one side must have things the other side does NOT HAVE is dropped, abandoned, removed, then perhaps everyone wins. I can not see any real value or reason to have the two facets defined this way. It should be sufficient to be defined as a PvP facet and a NON PvP facet. This makes it simple and as a generalization "Keep it simple stupid" tends to be the best solution.

But it's ok to ask for a copy of the Fel items in Tram, and not ok for Fel as a minimum to get copies of Tram content?

If I had my ideal UO, Tram and Fel would be unique, with their own changing content and events and we'd all be able to pick from a wide range of activities and items. But reality here. We don't have that good fortune as Fel players. It's unrealistic to expect EA to devote time to developing Fel content, and unsupported by players from Tram who scream blue murder when we DO get something. So I'm being realistic suggesting we get at least a copy of Tram content. So at a minimum I can choose where I obtain said items even if I'd rather they were different.

I hope that clears up what I meant

Wenchy

Wenchy

I am in support of the proposition to have Felucca and Trammel Identical in every aspect, except the PvP and NON PvP. I would think this is the most economical posture the UO Team could take.

In short, to remove the accumulation of years of "Scams/Cons" trying to force Trammel Players to go to "Felucca". These very "Scams/Cons" are what then drives the Trammel People to say, "Felucca has their unique things and we need to have our unique things". This simply adds more spaghetti to an already full pot of spaghetti. Far simpler to have everything identical, except the PvP and NON PvP.

I would advocate one change, that in Felucca, some towns be designated as "Red" Towns, were being NOT "Red" is a death sentance (aka being guard whacked).

 

[hen]

If you don't play in fel why punish the blues that do with this nonsensical idea of red towns?

 

[It Lives]

Oh dear, we've moved into a "let's grab scrolls from Fel' thread again...

Wenchy

Powers scrolls need to placed in other locations its that simple. They are old news...done over *psst* they could be replaced with better rewards......*hint hint*

IMO,It is not about taking anything from felucca

Its about strengthening the game as a whole.

Its about getting our Lazy dev team off their collective arse, working it so both faucets have content that is (seductive) and rewarding without excluding any play style . * get to work*

 

[Wenchkin]

Wenchy

I am in support of the proposition to have Felucca and Trammel Identical in every aspect, except the PvP and NON PvP. I would think this is the most economical posture the UO Team could take.

I can think of several reasons against copying the facets, but here are a few obvious ones:

- it's dull to copy content exactly, I'd rather we had items available but in different ways.
- it would screw up T2A and dungeons in Tram, one of the few things that I do like in Tram lol. After a week camping champs silly, you guys would also be p'd off at the mess your dungeons were in
- blessed items and content from events of old would have to be allowed for.
- it makes no allowance for different playstyles or player abilities to cookie cutter content.

In short, to remove the accumulation of years of "Scams/Cons" trying to force Trammel Players to go to "Felucca". These very "Scams/Cons" are what then drives the Trammel People to say, "Felucca has their unique things and we need to have our unique things". This simply adds more spaghetti to an already full pot of spaghetti. Far simpler to have everything identical, except the PvP and NON PvP.

I really wish you'd get over the con/scams line. What about Fel players constantly having content dangled like a carrot under our noses that pulls us to Tram facets? If anyone has the right to say we're being conned out of our chosen facet it's Fel players, not Tram ones. You have the lions share of unique spawns of high end items, which if I was a Tram player I'd be more than satisfied with. Logic would suggest you get your high end items from Tram and exchange them for powerscrolls. You don't have to go to Fel when the scrolls are on vendors. If scrolls couldn't be traded in Tram, there could be a worthwhile arguement, but nearly all are sold in Tram.

I would advocate one change, that in Felucca, some towns be designated as "Red" Towns, were being NOT "Red" is a death (aka being guard whacked).

Reds don't get guardwhacked in any towns right now unless they attack someone...

Wenchy

 

[Wenchkin]

Powers scrolls need to placed in other locations its that simple. They are old news...done over *psst* they could be replaced with better rewards......*hint hint*

IMO,It is not about taking anything from felucca

Its about strengthening the game as a whole.

Its about getting our Lazy dev team off their collective arse, working it so both faucets have content that is (seductive) and rewarding without excluding any play style . * get to work*

Lemmie put it another way, until the devs get busy making good Fel content, it will be taking away from Fel. Champs would have to be replaced with something(s). Trust me, I despised the mess champs made of Fel, I'd gladly see it replaced with something better. I just don't think the devs are interested in Fel enough to do a good job of it. So I'll favour keeping a little rubbish over no content at all When we have something better, then we can talk. But even so, I think Fel needs a lot of love before i's content should be copied to Tram.

Wenchy

 

[Turdnugget]

Enigma, quit trying to make UO an even more messed up than it already is. Allowing champs spawns to be in Tram, and get powerscrolls to boot. Do you realize how many powerscrolls would then be on the market? That would be insane. People could camp spawns 24/7 w/out any RISK at all and become uber rich. And then people would complain about that. I could sit in Despise and do a 2 person spawn all day and stack up on +20 scrolls and become a biollionaire but then the market would be flooded and the economy even more jacked up. Good thinking there.

In short, to remove the accumulation of years of "Scams/Cons" trying to force Trammel Players to go to "Felucca". These very "Scams/Cons" are what then drives the Trammel People to say, "Felucca has their unique things and we need to have our unique things". This simply adds more spaghetti to an already full pot of spaghetti. Far simpler to have everything identical, except the PvP and NON PvP.

Get over yourself Enigma. Next you're going to want to add a Peerless that drops a crimson everytime and that has 5k hp... seriously man. What is your beef with PvP? If you don't want it, do go to Fel. If you want the items that come from having to go to an aggressive facet, farm gold to buy it, or get friends to help. That simple. Are you trying to make this game even easier? Don't you want some kind of challenge in this game? Or should we all put on rainbow bear suits and fly away to our castle in the clouds and i'll be Snuggles and you can be Loveable.

 

[Uriah Heep]

Oh Damn!!! Why couldn't I come up with a good name like taht?

 

[CatLord]

I think the goal is to make it even...
Equal chances for all players... both to those that play it fair and those that script/hack/cheat...
Bods, random ps drop locations... anything...
Just take the monopoly of powerscrolls out of Felluca... otherwise it is discrimination.

A small minority controlling the vast majority of the UO population using illegal methods.

If you think this isnt so... my apologies for hammering this issue for the past 4 years.

 

[Sneaky Que]

...no...

 

[Redxpanda]

You don't have to run the spawns to get the scrolls. It's actually much easier and more time efficient to get the gold and buy the ones you want.

I completely disagree with that statement. The economy of this game is so bad that either you have or you don't have. If you have already, it's not so hard to make money and get those power scrolls that you need. If you do not have, it is such a struggle to make an honest buck in this game and i am completely and honestly speaking from experience. You can go to Doom and spend 750k on gold skulls, resources and insurance and leave 2 weeks later with a bone crusher (i've done it). It's discouraging and difficult and kinda sucks the fun outta the game and turns away players who are not well established financially. Furthermore, this is what makes people turn to these websites to buy gold and items and this in turn encourages scripters and dupers.

Now you know i am with you on power scrolls staying in fel but i only feel that way because they are there already and to take them away would pretty much put the nail in the coffin that holds fel's fate. Personally i don't think they should have been put there in the first place. It's unfair to people to put something they need somewhere they have no desire to be. I can completely understand [insert shiny pixel] being there but to force people to pvp for skill progression is wrong.

As it stands now your choices are pvp or pay big money. How is this game ever going to grow with those kind of odds against new players.

Do it for the kids Devs....Think about all the poor kids

 

[Turdnugget]

Trammel has a monopoly on Doom.. Discriminate much?

Get this, allowing PS to spawn in Tram, and say you have your champ spawns. You realize how MUCH easier it would be for those already hackers/cheaters/exploiters to do so even more in Tram? No risk of being attacked. I'm sure people would do spawns... unattended even. That would be a scripters parade right there.

I play it fair and still spawn and get scrolls in Fel. Just because you put spawns in trammel doesn't mean you wont see cheaters/scripters. I'm sure you'd see even more.

If it's a small minority controlling using illegal methods to control the VAST majority... you'd think being a part of the mass you could overcome the minority? Even with them using illegal means. Just because they cheat doesn't make them invincible.

The only risk you run doing spawns in Tram, is another guild coming in and stealing some scrolls...Then you're still going to have people complaining " We were here first" yadda yadda...Your chance would be just as good in Fel. At least you can fight for your spawn.

 

[CatLord]

BTW, for those who might be tempted to think that we are doing this so we could offer our own service or because we do make money off their boxes (traditionally, gold sellers will quickly shift to buddy disks and free trials though to lower their costs) let me tell you this. I’ve been offered “a piece of the action” both personally and corporately in the past if I will either turn a blind eye or help them in their actions. This would have netted me and/or Mythic a very, very tidy sum, far more than we would see from box sales. My answer was and always will remain the same:

Go to hell."

This was posted on September 21, 2008 by Mark Jacobs
http://onlinegamesareanichemarket.w...e-ho-off-the-servers-yo-a-banning-we-will-go/


So brokers... welcome to UO!
You wont play with Mythic new Toy... but you can mess with the dying one.

*add thumb up here*

We were looking for a meaning for the word discrimination... we found it... havent we?

So here we go again... DO SOMETHING! SOMEONE! PLEASE!

 

[Connor_Graham]

I completely disagree with that statement. The economy of this game is so bad that either you have or you don't have. If you have already, it's not so hard to make money and get those power scrolls that you need. If you do not have, it is such a struggle to make an honest buck in this game and i am completely and honestly speaking from experience.

Speaking from my own experience, I'd have to completely disagree with you on this statement. Making gold is VERY easy in UO, even for someone new to the game.

 

[Redxpanda]

We both started at the same time (Magincia Event). I got discouraged when the monsters got insanely difficult and started doing other things. You stuck with it and cashed in at the end. I totally blame myself for that one because it made such a difference. I thought about putting up a vendor and then i realized i don't have anything to sell hehe.

 

[Dragkiris]

powerscrolls are the only thing pvpers have left. Everything else has been took away from fel. If they mess up champ spawns what else will pvpers have left.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

I can think of several reasons against copying the facets, but here are a few obvious ones:

... List of personal preferences stated as obvious reason to not do something ...
- it makes no allowance for different playstyles or player abilities to cookie cutter content.

This is just down right curious. The Two Major Play Styles are PvP and NON PvP. Your asserting that to have the two facets defined identically, with the exception that Felucca has the PvP Rules (that need to be reverted after the cons/scams are removed) and Trammel has NON PvP Rules, do NOT allow for different play styles. I just plain find that to be an odd assertion. Keep in mind, this sub topic was created by your assertion that if something is taken from Fel then something needs to be given from Trammel. This give and take was not a MOVE but a copy. Very strange set of ... circumstances.

I really wish you'd get over the con/scams line. What about Fel players constantly having content dangled like a carrot under our noses that pulls us to Tram facets? If anyone has the right to say we're being conned out of our chosen facet it's Fel players, not Tram ones.
....

That is the point of Quid Pro Quo, I am simply taking it to its logical conclusion. Make both sides the same (with the exception of PvP vs NON PvP), once done neither side has anything the other needs, EXCEPT THE PLAY STYLE DIFFERENCE OF PvP vs NON PvP. Both sides then are FREE to define their facets culture and play style as they want. Both sides share equaly in the popularity of changes or the being seriously PO'd at changes. Both sides begin to see the commonality they have without the distractions of "The Cons/Scams that have accumulated over the years".

This version allows you tweeners to exists with the two groups. The more extreme solution does not (well it does in a ....dual personality sort of way ). I tend to prefer ... the centrist perspective.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

powerscrolls are the only thing pvpers have left. Everything else has been took away from fel. If they mess up champ spawns what else will pvpers have left.

And here I thought PKR's ... oops PvPr's were in the game to PK .... oops PvP.

NOW you tell me they are in the game to ... accumulate the .... worthless Power Scrolls that they either leave on the ground OR stash in Secures in their houses.

That the ability to acquire these Pixels In Trammel, will REMOVE PvP from UO. This is the point where ... *caugh* many of your peers would say "It is just a game".

If anyone got this far the above is just humerous rhetoric

poking fun at those that live by tired old cliche's

poking fun at the left hand devaluing Power Scrolls, while the Right hand sets their value at nothing less than the end of a Play Style. Funny how it is always the extremes ......

 

[mr.blackmage]

how many monsters would you kill if you you didn't get anything but an empty corpse?

 

[hawkeye_pike]

The ability to acquire these Pixels In Trammel, will REMOVE PvP from UO.

The ability to acquire Powerscrolls in Trammel would destroy the playground of a handful of cheaters (who act at the expense of all other players), while 95% of the players would appreciate this change.

There's no PvP in Felucca. It is only cheat-ganking. The only PvP in game is going on between guilds, who make sure their members do not break gaming rules.

(Those few reds in Felucca who actually try to do honest PvP should forgive this generalization. You're the exception!)

 

[Wenchkin]

This is just down right curious. The Two Major Play Styles are PvP and NON PvP. Your asserting that to have the two facets defined identically, with the exception that Felucca has the PvP Rules (that need to be reverted after the cons/scams are removed) and Trammel has NON PvP Rules, do NOT allow for different play styles. I just plain find that to be an odd assertion. Keep in mind, this sub topic was created by your assertion that if something is taken from Fel then something needs to be given from Trammel. This give and take was not a MOVE but a copy. Very strange set of ... circumstances.

I didn't mean that there wouldn't be different playstyles if the facets were mirrored, obviously Fel and Tram rulesets offer different playstyles. What I meant was that it would be dull to copy things. That we needed more differences to make it more interesting. Having 2 mirrored Destards, 2 exact copies of Shame, every little thing...ick. The first days when Tram was a virtual photocopy were dull as anything. My guild used to joke that you only knew it was Tram because it was laggy It's only now after events and changes to spawns have taken place that they feel like 2 separate facets. But what works in Tram for PvMers doesn't always appeal to more PvP based sorts. Which is why I think Fel should have different systems that suit it's players, not simple carbon copies. Remember, new chars start in Tram, so we need newbie content there. But in Fel, who'd hunt headless? That's what I mean - matching content to the players in the land.

That is the point of Quid Pro Quo, I am simply taking it to its logical conclusion. Make both sides the same (with the exception of PvP vs NON PvP), once done neither side has anything the other needs, EXCEPT THE PLAY STYLE DIFFERENCE OF PvP vs NON PvP. Both sides then are FREE to define their facets culture and play style as they want. Both sides share equaly in the popularity of changes or the being seriously PO'd at changes. Both sides begin to see the commonality they have without the distractions of "The Cons/Scams that have accumulated over the years".

This version allows you tweeners to exists with the two groups. The more extreme solution does not (well it does in a ....dual personality sort of way ). I tend to prefer ... the centrist perspective.

Nah, in all honesty if they messed with Fel that badly I wouldn't keep playing. I like a choice in what I do and where, not cloned facets. Played it once like that, not again. If all EA came up with was mirrored facets, it would say to me, this is as good as Fel will ever get, so you may as well quit before it gets worse. It would say EA have given up on innovating with an advanced facet so it's time to play elsewhere.

I don't want players sticking to one facet 24/7, I want them coming and going between the facets embracing different systems and activities. My town wouldn't be the same if we had only Fel customers, the fun is mixing both sides. Otherwise I'd be on Siege already, wouldn't I?

Wenchy

 

[CatLord]

Small detail... playing Uo with 100 skill is equal to playing it with 83% of your max skill.

Most monsters were changed to reflect this new reality.

Making powerscrolls a must for ALL players.

So again... someone stop the monopoly and the cheating... it is DISCRIMINATION.

And I am glad most players got to understand what a few in these boards keep trying to cover up... those same few that have known brokers, belong to some known fel guilds, etc...

Awareness is the ultimate advantage... it creates perspective. Right and Wrong.

Right now the vast Majority of the UO players are being Wronged... used, sheered, ignored and accounted for fools...

While some script and grow rich, or cheat and sell ps for millions and $... others, the VAST MAJORITY, that decided to play the game fair and square or... are so new to UO they have no clue about all the cheats... they sure have fun... like a herd in a new pasture... just dont forget the wolves outside the fence... if you misbehave... they will hunt you down.


PS: many players due to their vast experience and knowledge of the game mechanics CAN make millions fast... even those should consider... how fair is it that others just do unattended scripting for the same rewards...

 

[Connor_Graham]

We both started at the same time (Magincia Event). I got discouraged when the monsters got insanely difficult and started doing other things. You stuck with it and cashed in at the end. I totally blame myself for that one because it made such a difference. I thought about putting up a vendor and then i realized i don't have anything to sell hehe.

I actually started about 3 yrs before the Magincia event, which was just at the release of SE. I'd just returned to UO after being gone for almost a year when Magincia was coming about. The thing about Magincia though, you could have just walked around town and picked up the rubble no one else wanted and still sold it for millions.

 

[Remy_of_GOR]

So again... someone stop the monopoly and the cheating... it is DISCRIMINATION.

Right now the vast Majority of the UO players are being Wronged... used, sheered, ignored and accounted for fools...

lol. there is no discrimination. YOU have the ability to go get scrolls. you CHOOSE to not go get them yourself. scrolls are NOT a guarantee to anyone in the game. the people that 'control' the spawns die just as easily as you. kill them.

you are taking something that is a challenge and deciding you dont want to do the work to overcome the challenge. there is no reason you cannot train yourself to go get the scrolls. you dont like pvp? oh well, guess you need to get your scrolls some other way. that is your choice. it was not forced on you.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Small detail... playing Uo with 100 skill is equal to playing it with 83% of your max skill.

Most monsters were changed to reflect this new reality.

Making powerscrolls a must for ALL players.

Nope. With a GM only character, you can go to the next event, and come out with enough "stuff" to sell to have more than enough to buy any scroll you want. If that's not good enough for you, that same GM character can earn you 1mil per day or more doing normal things.

A Bowyer/Fletcher/Lumberjack can make 100mil in a matter of a couple of months by chopping their own wood and doing the Heartwood quests for runics. I got 3 Heartwood, 10 Yew, 17 Ash and countless Oak runics in 5 weeks spent in Heartwood. At 12.5mil per Heartwood runic, that's 37.5mil, plus 2mil per Yew Runic is another 20mil, for a total of 57.5mil, and I haven't counted in what I got for all the Ash runics either. That doesn't include the ring I got in one of the reward bags I sold for 5mil, or the bows that I've sold for well above that.

The gold is there and easy to get. You're just making your own roadblocks on the way to getting it.

So again... someone stop the monopoly and the cheating... it is DISCRIMINATION.

Oh, you mean like a PvP'r would HAVE to become a PvM'r in order to obtain ANY artifact in game?

And I am glad most players got to understand what a few in these boards keep trying to cover up... those same few that have known brokers, belong to some known fel guilds, etc...

Hate to break it to ya Catty me laddie, but those same brokers deal with people that hunt for artifacts too. Or did you think they discriminated?

Awareness is the ultimate advantage... it creates perspective. Right and Wrong.

Uh, okay. Awareness goes both ways.

Right now the vast Majority of the UO players are being Wronged... used, sheered, ignored and accounted for fools...

Um...nope. I'm pretty sure it's just you that's feeling that way. I know I've never felt like that, but then I've never had a problem with plying my trades to get what I needed to get any scroll I've wanted and then some.

While some script and grow rich, or cheat and sell ps for millions and $... others, the VAST MAJORITY, that decided to play the game fair and square or... are so new to UO they have no clue about all the cheats... they sure have fun... like a herd in a new pasture... just dont forget the wolves outside the fence... if you misbehave... they will hunt you down.

You're right. Sheep are the ones that the wolves hunt down. It's up to you whether or not you want to be the shepherd that hunts the wolf down. I know I'm damn sure not a sheep, and never have been.

*kicks back in the rocking chair sitting on a wolf skin rug*

PS: many players due to their vast experience and knowledge of the game mechanics CAN make millions fast... even those should consider... how fair is it that others just do unattended scripting for the same rewards...

I thought we were talking about PS's? When did scripting and how it affects the economy come into the picture? It must have gotten dragged in with one of the sheep huh?


Let me leave you with a little PS of my own...

P.S. My 2 month old character, at 110 Fencing, went to Doom BEFORE the changes happened and got an Orny on his second trip there.

Bam....60mil.

Who'dathunk?

 

[hawkeye_pike]

lol. there is no discrimination. YOU have the ability to go get scrolls. you CHOOSE to not go get them yourself. scrolls are NOT a guarantee to anyone in the game. the people that 'control' the spawns die just as easily as you. kill them.

You can't kill them unless you start breaking game rules. I rather renounce on powerscrolls than installing ghost cams and using speed hacks. But that's just me.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Nah, in all honesty if they messed with Fel that badly I wouldn't keep playing. I like a choice in what I do and where, not cloned facets. Played it once like that, not again. If all EA came up with was mirrored facets, it would say to me, this is as good as Fel will ever get, so you may as well quit before it gets worse. It would say EA have given up on innovating with an advanced facet so it's time to play elsewhere.

The bold is a significant difference in our expectations of a MMORPG. You seem to advocate that the Player makes the entertainment, but your position/posture states clearly you expect the Game owners to make the entertainment. I want the Game owners to be invisible and hands off, except were the rules of the game prevent us from being able to deal with ... problem people (hackers, cheats, etc ... mostly anything that ends up with account(s) being banned). Were we the players make the entertainment. That, that entertainment in the context of UO has a PvP Rule Set and a NON PvP Rule Set. In that context the facets being duplicates of each other are NOT RELEVANT. it is a code convenience, an implementation convenience or in short a reduction in the operating cost.

I don't want players sticking to one facet 24/7, I want them coming and going between the facets embracing different systems and activities. My town wouldn't be the same if we had only Fel customers, the fun is mixing both sides. Otherwise I'd be on Siege already, wouldn't I?

Trust me I know your a Tweener. I have known that straight along. I do NOT want this to get ... combative ...

The Tweeners are the single greatest obstacle to UO stability, as long as there is a PvP camp and a NON PvP camp.

It was manifestly clear the day they put Trammel online that the Tweeners would be a divisive influence/force rather than a uniting influence. That the objective of this group is to destroy the other two camps play style. I 100% accept they do not see it that way. They see it as merging the two play styles TO BE their own play style, in their terms the SUPERIOR PLAY STYLE. Merging as in DESTROYING. Merging as in NEITHER CAMP WILL BE HAPPY.

That is pretty much UO now wouldn't you say? Neither Camp is happy.

One solution is to clearly identify the Tweener Group, such that their Play Style, can be seen by the community for what it is and the choices the Tweeners have made / are making for the community. To amke it clear this group's agenda is to destroy the other play styles. As I said, I 100% accept they CAN NOT see that as the end results as what they see leaves NO ROOM for anything else, that their play style is the correct, superior and only play style that can be. That their play style embraces the other two play styles ... with conditions ... of course. That the other two play styles MUST COMPROMISE their play style ... of course. In PLAIN SPEAK, the other two play styles MUST CEASE TO EXISTS as the players of those play styles would define the play styles AND ACCEPT the Tweeners definition of their respective play styles.

If the Tweeners were not obfuscating the issues:

Felucca would be a lot closer in its definition to the ORIGINAL UO, with the added benefit of Trammel Players NOT WHINING about things that the Felucca Players have. Felucca's future would be in the hands of those that want what the Original UO had.

Trammel would be far more of what the NON PvP group wants and would have the added benefit of Felucca Players WHINING about things that the Trammel Players have. Trammel's future would be in the hands of those that CHOSE TO NOT WANT what the Original UO had, in terms of PvP.

*Shrug*

I accept you will never go to SP. It is NOT a Tweener Land.