Order/Chaos guilds, would you want them back?

[Dakkon Blackblade]

it is clear you have no knowledge other than what you read or participated in way after the fact.

LMAO at this.

What is CoB? Oh yeah like you know, you can not just google it and get the answer to why it is even relevant.

BUT you make sure you keep ranting about how I am a NEWBIE to the game and your an OLD PLAYER .

How is it clear? because you say so? and I couldn't have participated "after the fact" since I started pvping Order/Chaos from the day it began and would still be doing so had it not been removed.

On the other hand I could keep pointing out your failure to address the fact that nobody is forcing anything on trammel players by allowing Order/Chaos back into the game.

If you had as much knowledge on the issue as you keep spouting off about then you would have known this before you made your first post on the matter.

Although it's obviously pointless to keep showing you how ignorant you are since you are so convinced that you know what you are talking about.

 

[Harb]

What is CoB?

Crossroads of Britannia Dev Board, the original (well one of them, and the most prominent) UO posting board.

This is REJECTED BY DD (oh oops YOU WANT TO MAINTAIN I DON'T KNOW THIS).

Raph Koster, Designer Dragon. Do I get an "A"?

 

[Corrupted Goblin]

Fix factions forget order chaos

 

[Kyrie_Elaison]

Fix factions forget order chaos

How about this,

Goblin Guilds
Elf Guilds
Human Guilds
Orc Guilds
Gargoyle Guilds

MASS BATTLES

Make them all PvP and let them work for alliances. You actually have to perform tasks together in order to gain alliance points. Once you have gained certain alliance statuses you can perform beneficial acts; ie; stage one you can heal your allies, stage 2 you can rez your allies, etc.

On the flip side you could have it so you have to perform negative acts that would cause them to go into different negative stages, the final being war of course.

You could actually have Humans allied with Goblins, and Elves allied with Orcs. Then you could have Humans performing positive acts behind the scenes with Orcs to stop warring. This could be fun.

A lot of different diplomacy options.

 

[Ken of Napa]

Current state of affairs in Felucca vs Trammel.

Felucca is empty, BY CHOICE.

Trammel is populated, BY CHOICE.

Proposal, lets allocate EVEN MORE LAND TO PvP (the con is to state it as a ... subset of the Felucca Rule set).

------------

Yes lets have these wars in the Luna Bank, the Britain Bank. Lets show the Trammies just how totaly moronic their CHOSEN Play style is. Lets FORCE them to be spectators at the TRASH TALKING POINTLESS (to the Trammel player) PvP. So we can show what BAD A$$es we are and what BABIES THEY ARE.

-----------------

Regardless of it being an intentional scam or just .... creative rationalization/denial, the end effect is the same.

PvP people want access to the greater group that has REJECTED that play style. To FORCE that greater group to actively or passively PARTICIPATE in a Play Style THEY HAVE ALREADY CHOSEN TO REJECT and continue to CHOSE TO REJECT, else they would be in Felucca and it WOULD NOT BE EMPTY.

Does it even occur to you that, perhaps the majority of that group finds being SUBJECTED TO / FORCED to be a spectator to what they consider offensive (gratuitous profanity), trash talking, name calling, racial sluring, sexist jerks IS NOT FUN?

I mean get honest here, it is NOT like any of these Battles will EVER be fought in an Empty Field with NO TRAMMIE SPECTATORS is it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mean that is OBVIOUS isn't it!!!!!!!! Else these same people would fight in Felucca, the EMPTY PvP FACET.

--------------------------

Get real here, none of this is about MAKING FELUCCA better, more Viable. It is 100% about FORCING Trammel to be the Felucca Rule Set. Giving the Felucca Play Style 100% Free Access to Trammel to do what every they want there.

Not a single part of this proposal IMPROVES FELUCCA.

In the end, it would be one more NAIL DRIVEN INTO FELUCCA's (the rule set) COFFIN.

QFT !:bowdown:

Can't say it any better than this

 

[Turdnugget]

Enigma... wow... you... uhhh... hmmm... are an interesting one at that. Give trammel rules to Felucca and have a PvP toggle switch? LMFAOROFLOLOMGOOSE etc... do that and they lose at least 50% of the subscribers. If we wanted to have to toggle PvP we'd play WoW or EQ.

Obviously you're not understanding things correctly.

Connor, guild wars don't really work all that well. At least on most servers. A one man guild could declare war on say 50 other guilds. I'm sure maybe 3 would accept... on most shards. O/C would be nice because then you don't have to declare war... it is war.

The alliance thing mentioned would be interesting... what about people changing back n' forth from Human to Elf though?

Perhaps bring back Color wars like we had on Test years ago!

A dedicated PvP field... 4 castles, 4 different colors. You go there. Click on the stone, and you have to wear that robe...Each castle has pros/cons to it etc...that way these trammies don't have to worry about trash talking while they bank sit and water their precious pixel plants :gun:

Oh and Enigma, look at the poll. About 75% of the voters want O/C back. And i'm sure some of them are Tram based too.

 

[Turdnugget]

Ken of Napa... another hardcore trammy?

O/C would only allow more room/people to fight outside of Fel. What rulesets are you thinking would be applied? Only the fact you can kill oranges/loot them anywhere. WHooPiiideeeedooooooo.

 

[Viper09]

Enigma, you keep spamming and trolling the same tired load that just doesn't make sense.
-Guilds can war and fight in tram, but you don't seem to be whining about that.

-Order/Chaos are nearly the same thing, but in some terms more advanced as you are not simply waring one guild, you are waring multiple guilds and everyone will know that your guild is aligned

People now days are still luring people into guilds and killing them, I even know of a couple on my shard as it is.

And, let me spell it out for you:
No one is forcing no one to PvP. It is completely voluntary just as guild wars are. Your miner will not be killed unless you choose to be in a waring guild. Trash talk exists in tram as well, believe it or not. You will not be ganked unless you choose to be part of a waring guild. No one is forcing no one to PvP, no one is saying any playstyle is better than anyone's, etc etc etc....
Stop trolling the thread.

 

[Sheridan]

I believe everyone is misunderstanding Enigma here... He's not complaining about participating in the PvP but being a witness to it or having to watch it unfold at the bank. *shrugs* Personally, I think there's plenty enough banks to go to if it's killing you to watch others duke it out in front of you.

 

[Spree]

I miss my Towny

 

[Viper09]

I believe everyone is misunderstanding Enigma here... He's not complaining about participating in the PvP but being a witness to it or having to watch it unfold at the bank. *shrugs* Personally, I think there's plenty enough banks to go to if it's killing you to watch others duke it out in front of you.

I understand that part of what Enigma is saying, but he is jumbling a bunch of other nonsensical reasons in there with it.

 

[Turdnugget]

To be honest, I doubt there would be much fighting going on in Luna. It's far too laggy and i'm sure the fight would be ran elsewhere. I think that if UO didn't have PvP this game would be dead. Who wants to spend $12+ a month to craft or kill monsters... there's a lot more games out there with better graphics/monsters that I would rather play if I was in it for the PvM.

PvP is pretty much the only thing that keeps me coming back to UO. I've played EQ, Lineage II and seen WoW... PvP just isnt the same.

 

[InTooDeep]

I agree that there would probably not be much fightning in Luna, or any other place that people do business- no more than there already is anyway. Half the time I run past Luna bank I see people messing around and fightning with each other anyway, its just part of the game.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Crossroads of Britannia Dev Board, the original (well one of them, and the most prominent) UO posting board.



Raph Koster, Designer Dragon. Do I get an "A"?

No you get an B+ as you did not "clearly" identify why CoB was relevant.

I assume you know why and would just as soon not go any further in to it as there are precious few things left that can identify those that were actually there vs those that have googled their way there.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

I agree that there would probably not be much fightning in Luna, or any other place that people do business- no more than there already is anyway. Half the time I run past Luna bank I see people messing around and fightning with each other anyway, its just part of the game.

It is NOT that there may or may not be to much.

You read the boards and the PvPr's want it this way, "Felucca is empty (go read the thread were the OP says he couldnt even find a miner to PK) and needs to be improved".

Now you get a proposal to make it, on the one hand, even MORE difficult for PvPr's to find each other by increasing the area they could be found in (the proposed Consensual PvP in the SA lands and eventually Trammel). The end effect is to cater to this nonsense to the extent that is is in every single land and they will still be whining about not being able to find a Miner to PK.

Why, why is it so darned important to FORCE the people in Trammel to be passively exposed to the very thing they FLED FROM?

Then to use the .... self edit a euphemism showing contempt and disgust at the blatant scams ala creative rationalization/denial ... Cliche's "Oh, they can turn on their filters", "Oh they can RUN AWAY TO ANOTHER BANK/TOWN (which of course WE WILL FOLLOW THEM TO (AKA HARASSMENT))"

It is obvious, Felucca is EMPTY, Trammel is NOT. The Proposal is 100% ALL ABOUT FORCING 100 different was to PvP in Trammel and Felucca? What is that, it is Empty no one there to do anything with.

What kind of Anvil needs to fall on ones head to see that it is deliberately targeting the Trammel Players that have REJECTED the Felucca Rule Set.

Remember Felucca is empty, then you hear "Oh, Me Oh My, I can NOT possibly do any of this PvP STUFF in Felucca, there is a RED lurking behind every bush", followed up with the Creative Rationalization, "Oh my You can NEVER find anyone in Felucca" by the exact same person.

The OP wants Factions to include Trammel. he makes it perfectly clear he wants Trammel to be PvP, but of course we will use creative rationalizations/denials to denounce anything that points out, Felluca IS EMPTY and SAFE. That ALL PvP MUST BE ENABLED AND PERFORMED in the POPULATED (you know vs the EMPTY FELLUCA) Trammel. Directly stateing, "It is the Trammel Population that REJECTED the Felucca Play Style, that is the difference, they are the Target, their Play Style is the Goal".

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

It is not being forced on you. You either join an O/C guild or you don't. It's the same as deciding whether to join a warred guild or not. Or to join in a RP guild where there will be PvP and possibly a set of restrictions in place. If you don't want any of those things, you can choose other guilds or make your own. Players in Tram manage these decisions very well as the game stands now.

I don't particularly like seeing a lot of things in Tram, from bank sitting spammers to blaze or other neon atrocities. I have the same solution that Tram players have with O/C. Chances are it'll happen around banks and popular areas - so do banking away from Luna and WBB and the chances are you'll see nothing of it. And so what if you can see players fighting? You can see that if you happen upon some Tram guilds in a war with each other. You can see all sorts of bad trash talk in Tram as it is. Whether it's bank spamming or some brat at a spawn. You set a player to ignore and the problem is solved.

I think you're asking for players to be wrapped up in a comfy blanket where no bad stuff exists. But UO is a game, not RL. We need to get into perspective here - all we're seeing is pixels on a screen, not a lot of burly lads scrapping on our RL doorstep.

And I'll say it again, we had this system before, and the world didn't end. It won't end with the re-introduction of O/C either. I can see reasons why players would object to something new, but this is just re-instatement of something which players enjoyed.

Wenchy

Wenchy your trivializing the differences. I assume you have your reason as I assume you know darn well that a Guild at War OR Peace is NOT EQUAL to the Chaos vs Order construct.

Why are you wanting, to as others are, yet again FORCE the Trammel players to REARRANGE their play style to facilitate YOUR Play Style and then (no not you) you argue that your play style in Trammel will be so Insy Winsy, Tiny Ittsy Bittsy, that NO ONE could/would ever even notice?

Why are they going to be forced to REARRANGE their play style for something that is being represented as being insignificant, inconsequential on the one hand, and THIS WILL SAVE UO FROM CLOSING ITST DOORS AT THE END OF THE MONTH on the other hand.

Catch the PvPr wanting to represent PvP as 50%+ as being PvP subscriptions.

As I said to you in another thread, how do you have a discussion, for making things better, when the other side of the table is seeking your destruction and absolutely no other solution is acceptable.

You want your Cake and eat it too. You want Felluca to be Enhanced, made Fun AND you want to make darn sure that Trammel is a 100% PvP place .... well you will concede NO REDS in Trammel. What a concession.

 

[ColterDC]

Why are you wanting, to as others are, yet again FORCE the Trammel players to REARRANGE their play style to facilitate YOUR Play Style

You are so dense.... nothing about this change requires you to rearrange anything.

Hell they could have added this system in a month ago and provided you didn't join, you wouldn't even know it existed.

 

[Viper09]

Wenchy your trivializing the differences. I assume you have your reason as I assume you know darn well that a Guild at War OR Peace is NOT EQUAL to the Chaos vs Order construct.

Why are you wanting, to as others are, yet again FORCE the Trammel players to REARRANGE their play style to facilitate YOUR Play Style and then (no not you) you argue that your play style in Trammel will be so Insy Winsy, Tiny Ittsy Bittsy, that NO ONE could/would ever even notice?

Why are they going to be forced to REARRANGE their play style for something that is being represented as being insignificant, inconsequential on the one hand, and THIS WILL SAVE UO FROM CLOSING ITST DOORS AT THE END OF THE MONTH on the other hand.

Catch the PvPr wanting to represent PvP as 50%+, as I said to you in another thread, how do you have a discussion, for making things better, when the other side of the table is seeking your destruction and absolutely no other solution is acceptable.

You want your Cake and eat it too. You want Felluca to be Enhanced, made Fun AND you want to make darn sure that Trammel is a 100% PvP place .... well you will concede NO REDS in Trammel. What a concession.

Waring guilds are still around and PvP in trammel, I see no one being forced to change. Guilds not even at war PvP in trammel, no one is forced to change.

So, please explain how a trammel playing in trammel seeing PvP would have to rearrange their playstyle. You keep making these accusations without explaining them.

There is hardly any difference between an O/C guild and a regular waring guild. The only difference is that by simply selecting either Order or Chaos you are suddenly at war with the other side.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

How about this,

Goblin Guilds
Elf Guilds
Human Guilds
Orc Guilds
Gargoyle Guilds

MASS BATTLES

Make them all PvP and let them work for alliances. You actually have to perform tasks together in order to gain alliance points. Once you have gained certain alliance statuses you can perform beneficial acts; ie; stage one you can heal your allies, stage 2 you can rez your allies, etc.

On the flip side you could have it so you have to perform negative acts that would cause them to go into different negative stages, the final being war of course.

You could actually have Humans allied with Goblins, and Elves allied with Orcs. Then you could have Humans performing positive acts behind the scenes with Orcs to stop warring. This could be fun.

A lot of different diplomacy options.

While your not saying this, the reply is in keeping with this Troll Thread advocating yet another scam/con on how to Turn Trammel into the Premier PvP facet.

Why would this need to be implemented in Trammel? Oh say rather than be a Felucca perk?

PS: By the way, just for fun, Vanguard has implemented a Class/Play Style to do just that. Depending on how good you are, you can negotiate safe passage and treaties etc.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Waring guilds are still around and PvP in trammel, I see no one being forced to change. Guilds not even at war PvP in trammel, no one is forced to change.

So, please explain how a trammel playing in trammel seeing PvP would have to rearrange their playstyle. You keep making these accusations without explaining them.

There is hardly any difference between an O/C guild and a regular waring guild. The only difference is that by simply selecting either Order or Chaos you are suddenly at war with the other side.

I can not resist and I am sure it will go to your head *Shrug* but it doesn't affect me so .....

You made it perfectly clear that you have NO CAPACITY to understand the gibberish I type. That YOU can NOT READ IT AND MAKE SENSE.

BUT

You seemingly have some .... uhm, 9th sense that allows you to ....uhm JUST KNOW something that was in one of my replies? I guess it was by OSMOSIS? Perhaps Jupiter was in the 7Th house at that moment (astronomers/astrologers quit laughing)

Do not wast your time reading my post let alone bore the crap out of other by trying to make your desire to FORCE PvP (shall we link your thread advocating Factions include Trammel?) to be in Trammel, all about me THE PERSON AND WHAT A MORON I AM.

IF you were to debate an issue, YOU WOULD TALK ABOUT THE ISSUE. What YOU and others do is 100% ATTACK THE POSTER. That is a form of *caugh* DEBATE I do NOT care to be a part of.

You do have a nice life though

 

[Viper09]

Ok, so instead of answering you troll,

Part of a debate is explaining and proving your point, which you are not doing.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Wenchy,

I was not going to go after this part but I have changed my mind.

I think you're asking for players to be wrapped up in a comfy blanket where no bad stuff exists. But UO is a game, not RL. We need to get into perspective here - all we're seeing is pixels on a screen, not a lot of burly lads scrapping on our RL doorstep.

Why is this a .... One way street here?

Why is this particular Cliche always used to rationalize the minority demeaning and dismissing the majority?

IF IT IS ONLY A GAME, then why DO YOU INSIST ON CHANGEING THINGS FOR OTHERS THAT DO NOT WANT THE CHANGE?

I Mean it is after all JUST A GAME, JUST PIXELS. Why don't you do it in Felucca? The Abandoned Lands Felluca.

Come on now we BOTH agree it is JUST A GAME, JUST PIXESL, don't we?

OR is that a construct that works in ONLY ONE DIRECTION.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Ok, so instead of answering you troll,

Part of a debate is explaining and proving your point, which you are not doing.

You just keep making it easier and easier

You do of course KNOW that in a DEBATE YOU (presumably you are casting yourself as a VIABLE opponent psst that was a slam, meaning you do NOT make it clear you are prepared to step out of the Peanut Gallery that consists of hecklers) DO NOT EXIST. The only people that EXIST are the Viewers (in this context they are the Judges). You seriously just do NOT get it. YOU ATTACK ME and I attack the ISSUES. You create the environment Sam was referring to "I refuse to have a duel of Wits with an Unarmed person (he said man I am being more PC)".

 

[Kaleb]

Ok, so instead of answering you troll,

Part of a debate is explaining and proving your point, which you are not doing.

That is the case more times than not with this person. If it has anything to do with pvp she goes off on a rant spewing jibberish that has nothing to do with the thread. Then gos and attacks a playstyle that is accepted and enjoyed by at least 25% of the playerbase.

Chaos and order should come back I know of at least a dozen people in my icq who ran multi accounts that closed their accounts just because they did away with the system . People also need to understand Factions did not replace chaos/order they were seperate systems. When AOS came in they decided to turn off chaos/order so the kids could have those shields. Before aos came out many people were both in either chaos/order and a faction at the same time.

 

[Harb]

-Guilds can war and fight in tram, but you don't seem to be whining about that.

-Order/Chaos are nearly the same thing, but in some terms more advanced as you are not simply waring one guild, you are waring multiple guilds and everyone will know that your guild is aligned.

I voted "yes," bring order/ chaos back as an additional means of PvP for those desiring more of it, and caveated that vote by recommending O/C take a slightly different tone than before. Allow individual characters to choose a "side," not guilds. Frankly, if not an individual choice, my vote would have been "no." Reviving O/C in traditional form is redundant, albeit with a slight twist. On the "for" side of this debate, Enigma is correct by stating that desires/ posts/ opinions sort of "run all over the place." More land for PvP combat is unecessary if more players don't participate. Those who currently choose to PvP, do so as guilds, in factions, or as reds. Those who do not choose to participate now, will likely not alter their decision if O/C is just another form of guild interaction. Without new participants, again, things can remain as they currently are. Many of us old PvPers would participate with some characters, individually, assuming that cheats/ hacks/ scripts don't ruin the show. If Mythic makes the respective shields highly desireable/ effective, the item property based generation of player may find themselves intersted as well. Going back to the same old sandbox just doesn't seem to me the way to go on this one.

 

[Warrior of Time]

I think O/C should come back.

There needs to be room to place a Char templet that is basicly PVP to actually PVP. I see the gargoyal as becomeing a PVP that has been honed to a razer's edge. I see where there will be a lot of people wanting to make a gargoyal when SA comes out. C/O never changed Trammel back then and I can't see it changing it now. Most didn't even know it exsisted till just a short time ago.

As for the shields I think that the gargoyal armor and weapons will make up for any single item. A human can only use human armor as well as the other way around.

I think everyone should not see you as being orange. I think one side blue the other orange (not red) so people can see exactly what is going on. Everyone showing up as orange makes it look like just a couple guys in the same guild going at it again. No one ever looked to see what kind of shield you had. It could have been two people that was in the order guild working on PVP skills. Who knows, it may make more join one side or the other.

I also never seen a lot of people fighting in cities like Brit either. Almost everyone wants more room.

 

[Wenchkin]

Wenchy,

I was not going to go after this part but I have changed my mind.



Why is this a .... One way street here?

Why is this particular Cliche always used to rationalize the minority demeaning and dismissing the majority?

IF IT IS ONLY A GAME, then why DO YOU INSIST ON CHANGEING THINGS FOR OTHERS THAT DO NOT WANT THE CHANGE?

I Mean it is after all JUST A GAME, JUST PIXELS. Why don't you do it in Felucca? The Abandoned Lands Felluca.

Come on now we BOTH agree it is JUST A GAME, JUST PIXESL, don't we?

OR is that a construct that works in ONLY ONE DIRECTION.

I'm not using it to rationalise anything, just saying that taking a step back and realising that it's just a game might make folk less protective of their pixels. Regardless of where they are. Or who they are. I've lost valuable things in UO and in RL, believe me when I say it's just a game I mean it in the right way. I'm not being patronising or anything of the sort. I just worry when players seem so against loss of any sort that they're too attached to things which are actually just dots on a screen. It just makes these discussions impossible when players talk as if it's a RL fight happening. It's not.

If I don't want to join O/C, then I don't. You'd have the same option I do Nothing is forced. It'll be in Tram and Fel, so we can all join in. I don't understand why it's such a problem to have another option. And this isn't new, it was in Tram before and worked ok. If it wasn't for that last fact, trust me, I wouldn't even post on the subject. But if it worked before, I believe it'll work again. As an option. I'll say it again, an option. You can avoid it like guild wars or Fel and you're no worse off. It's not as if there are uber rare items as rewards for anyone to complain about. It's just a variance on the guild war system we have, which plenty of players engage in. I can't for the life of me understand the objection to something which is so alike guild wars which are accepted in Tram.

Wenchy

 

[Turdnugget]

Enigma, you have a one track mind and your posts give me a headache because you only see one way.

Opening up more lands isn't going to make PvP harder and more sparse. Here's the thing, in Fel, you've got a few places to look for PvP. Moongates, Despise, T2A spawns. You understand how effin' long it takes to track down all the spawns in T2A just to hope you might find someone? Allowing O/C in Trammel would stop some AFK bank sitters too who sit there for hours on end burning counts. That would make em do it in their house or elsewhere. And the cussing and swearing and trash talks that come with PvP. I highly doubt you would see it in Trammel land. Why? Let's put it this way, when you're at war with someone, and you're fighting, there really isn't any trash talking going on during the fight, kind of a pain in the butt to type and fight at the same time. Most of the talking goes on in a safe zone, IE, from a house or in the guardzone at a moongate. Large scale fights hardly ANY trash talk goes on, but since you spend your time in Trammel I don't think you'd know that.

If you were around when O/C was at it's peak, you'd have realized that the fighting did SOMETIMES occur around banks, but mostly they were running through, chasing someone down. And nobody cares to PK miners. Wtf man? can't even do that in trammel. The miner pk days are over.

Nobody is forcing you to PvP, or to change your playstyle. As stated before, it's no different than the same guild PvPing, sparring etc around a bank. I see it all the time in Luna. We're not trying to take anything away from Trammel. It's not endangering ANYONE who chooses not to participate in O/C/guild wars. If you see an O/C fight you can either stop to watch, see who wins, or go on your merry way.

I honestly would not play this game if PvP wasn't as good as it is. Granted the cheaters suck. However, the PvP sytem now, with factions, I dislike and am not as into PvP as I have been. O/C would definately give me something to enjoy again. I only PvM because people like you, i'm assuming, LOVE your items and have pleaded with devs to make this game more appealing and like all the other MMORPGs and give us items etc, that I PvM in order to get better items to PvP because I can't PvP like I used to, sandals/short pants/doublet and a straw hat and a halberd. If I were to take anything away from Trammel, I'd take away all the stupid item based crap that has nearly ruined this game. From all facets.

Back in the day, O/C was the shiznit. Long before Trammel existed. If you wanted to have a good shield you'd go O/C. While PvMing you ran the risk of an O/C running through. That was the thrill. PvM + PVP.

I wish you'd stop trolling this thread because obviously you don't see the big picture and are just bringing this thread down. As you see from the numbers, the majority of voters are for O/C and i'm sure the 25% only swing that way because they've either read your negative posts and don't know wtf O/C is and how great it was, and are following your lead because you're only pointing out negative crap and are imposing that Feluccans are of the Devil and PvP is the Devil's toy.

Not every trammy wants to stay a trammy. They don't get the desire to PvP because they read crap like you're writing. Only the negative.

Prime example on Baja. There's a tram based guild called the Mage Tower. Big time trammy guild. But guess what? They've decided they don't want to be just trammies so they've ventured out into the wonderful world of Fel and PvP. They've had the balls to start spawns, get raided and die. Because it's a good experience for them. They're learning what is PvP, and how to PvP. Not everyone has the balls to come to Fel and start dying to learn 'What is PvP?'
If people had the chance in TRAMMEL to see what PvP is, they might actually become something more than a crafter or banksitter. However you look at it, there has always been some kind of PvP in Trammel. Nothing wrong with bringing back O/C similar to how it was before.

 

[Surgeries]

Yepper, this one is a real problem. It is the only reason I no longer particiapte in PvP. If this can not be adequately addressed, nothing can be done to enable greater appeal for PvP. For me, it's the only downside to order/ chaos or any other PvP system. If allowed to continue, my idea regarding great shields for participation becomes yet another unfair disadvantage to the majority of the player base who play the game fairly. But let's face it, Mythic very much wants to encourage the playstyle! So something new might achieve their goal.

It certainly is a show stopper for me.

I guess I am "Scared" of Cheaters!!

 

[InTooDeep]

It is NOT that there may or may not be to much.

You read the boards and the PvPr's want it this way, "Felucca is empty (go read the thread were the OP says he couldnt even find a miner to PK) and needs to be improved".

Now you get a proposal to make it, on the one hand, even MORE difficult for PvPr's to find each other by increasing the area they could be found in (the proposed Consensual PvP in the SA lands and eventually Trammel). The end effect is to cater to this nonsense to the extent that is is in every single land and they will still be whining about not being able to find a Miner to PK.

Why, why is it so darned important to FORCE the people in Trammel to be passively exposed to the very thing they FLED FROM?

I was simply stating an observation, and it was in response to someone else's reply, not yours. I understand were you are coming from on on this topic- You do not feel that anyone should be forced to be exposed to a specific play style if they do not wish to be.

I was simply stating that PvP already occurs in the Tram rule set. People already can PvP in Trammel, and adding a system similar to the Order/Chaos one would not be that big of an adjustment. Currently, there is consensual PvP that takes place in Trammel within guilds, and among warring guilds. Adding a system like Order/Chaos would just be another way for consensual PvP to take place. No one in Trammel would be forced to be exposed to PvP any more than they already are.

Also, in response to your comment about the guy who was looking for a miner to PK, he is not a fair representation of what PvP is about. That is NOT what the vast majority of PvPers are about and it is sad that this is how PvPers are viewed. He was looking for someone to murder, not fight with. PvPers are looking for someone to fight with- a challange. PvPers want a challange that monster bashing or miner bashing does not bring to them.

 

[ColterDC]

Very well said. There's a big difference between a PK and a PvPer.

 

[azmodanb]

Either allow Factions to fight in Tram, or bring back Order/Chaos, or both.

/signed

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

I was simply stating an observation, and it was in response to someone else's reply, not yours. I understand were you are coming from on on this topic- You do not feel that anyone should be forced to be exposed to a specific play style if they do not wish to be.

I was simply stating that PvP already occurs in the Tram rule set. People already can PvP in Trammel, and adding a system similar to the Order/Chaos one would not be that big of an adjustment. Currently, there is consensual PvP that takes place in Trammel within guilds, and among warring guilds. Adding a system like Order/Chaos would just be another way for consensual PvP to take place. No one in Trammel would be forced to be exposed to PvP any more than they already are.

Also, in response to your comment about the guy who was looking for a miner to PK, he is not a fair representation of what PvP is about. That is NOT what the vast majority of PvPers are about and it is sad that this is how PvPers are viewed. He was looking for someone to murder, not fight with. PvPers are looking for someone to fight with- a challange. PvPers want a challange that monster bashing or miner bashing does not bring to them.

A game is being played (intentionaly or not), were

The right hand says the left hand does NOT represent a thing and wants that thing to be this.

The Left Hand says the Right Hand does NOT represent a thing and wants that thing to be this.

WHAT THEY BOTH AGREE ON IS IT MUST BE IN TRAMMEL. NO OTHER SOLUTION IS ACCEPTABLE. As in NON, NADA, if Trammel is NOT the place it is by definition dismissed as a solution.

The Left hand says IT MUST BE IN TRAMMEL BECAUSE THERE IS A RED BEHIND EVERY BUSH.

The Right hand says IT MUST BE IN TRAMMEL BECAUSE THERE IS NO ONE IN FELUCCA.

The Left hand says, There are already existing methods to PK players, in an orgranized manner that the Trammel players understand and have accepted (but leaves out there is NO CHOICE other than to QUIT UO). But the Left hand argues ALL THE WAYS TO PK IN TRAMMEL ARE UNACCEPTABLE TO THEM. Ergo Trammel MUST CHANGE TO BE A PK Facet.

The Right hand says, SCREW THAT GIMME A MINER TO PK and IT MUST BE TRAMMEL BECAUSE THERE IS NO ONE IN FELUCCA.

The Left Hand says, That NO REDS will ever be In Trammel. NOT EVEN IF THEY CREATE A NEW CHARCTER TO PK IN TRAMMEL VIA the proposed rule changes. NOPE NO REDS EVER.

The Right Hand says, I AM A RED. I DEMAND ACCESS TO TRAMMEL. Oh you mean I can do every thing I do know, IN TRAMMEL AND NOT TURN RED? Oh YEAH sign me up.

Trammel is the facet THAT MUST BE CHANGED. Heaven forbid, the MAJORITY OF ACCOUNTS (well except the one that claims PKRS are 50%+ of the accounts) HAVE FUN PLAYING THEIR PLAY STYLE IN THEIR HOUSE BY THEIR RULES. No No NO ABSOLUTELY NOT, WE CAN NOT HAVE THEM HAVING FUN AND US BEING MISERABLE. As in MISERY LOVES COMPANY.

As to the Pole? Give me a break these polls show nothing in the end and are of no particular value. BUT let us MAKE IT PERFECTLY CLEAR. The Total NUMBER of voters is LESS THAN 30% of the people that voted in the other two votes. Get the MESSAGE? They are Lock Stock and BARREL SICK AND TIRED OF YOUR WHINING, SCAMS and CONS to change their FACET. So they boycott and ignore this thread.

Bottom LINE is there has been NO JUSTIFICATION to warrant changing anything about Trammel.

Bottom LINE is there has been 100% denial that the ABANDONED LANDS OF FELLUCA NEEDS TO BE IMPROVED.

It is very very very clear that the time for a serious look at doing away with the FELUCCA RULES, making SP THE PK prison shard and Replacing the Felucca Rules with the Trammel Rules as they are DEFINED NOW, is here.

 

[Harb]

...(well except the one that claims PKRS are 50%+ of the accounts)...

Enigma, you probably recall the subserver utilization rates discussed on the MyUO boards back in the day when dev was speaking more frequently to players. Rates were between 90-95% Tram, 5-10% Fel. Unless Jeremy does the research and posts information regarding current rates, those about the best "hard" numbers we can use. The quoted numbers included faction play on Japanese servers, where Fel numbers were much higher than they are here in the US. Fel numbers likely dropped a bit as die hard "reds" left the game, then even more as additional lands opened under the Tram rules set. I do suspect Fel percentile numbers have risen a bit of late, as subscriptions overall have waned. But 90/10, based on known figures and in game observations, sounds in the ball park. Posters on the stratics board do not reflect subserver untilization or the broader population of players, they never have. The bottom line, anyone making such as outlandish claim is woefully incorrect.

To be objective, we must bear in mind three things. 1) Even if the 5-10% rates are still about right, they remain 5-10% of the player base who do deserve dev efforts into the aspects of the game they most enjoy. 2) A player who chooses to focus their efforts on PvP and those who prefer the Fel rules set are not necessarily the same people. 3) Subserver utilization rates do not necessarily reflect distain of the other 90-95% toward PvP. It is fair to assume it is an accurate reflection of distain for nonconsentual PvP, but they are also not necessarily the same thing.

I had to clarify earlier that despite a "yes" vote from me, I would have voted "no" if O/C revival mirrors what it was before. If O/C revives as an individual character choice and does not include guild play, I think more folks will at least look at it as an option. Add very nice shields, more folks will take a look. Keep it simple. If more players do begin participating in PvP, it may take away some of the trepedation many feel.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Enigma, you probably recall the subserver utilization rates discussed on the MyUO boards back in the day when dev was speaking more frequently to players. Rates were between 90-95% Tram, 5-10% Fel. Unless Jeremy does the research and posts information regarding current rates, those about the best "hard" numbers we can use. The quoted numbers included faction play on Japanese servers, where Fel numbers were much higher than they are here in the US. Fel numbers likely dropped a bit as die hard "reds" left the game, then even more as additional lands opened under the Tram rules set. I do suspect Fel percentile numbers have risen a bit of late, as subscriptions overall have waned. But 90/10, based on known figures and in game observations, sounds in the ball park. Posters on the stratics board do not reflect subserver untilization or the broader population of players, they never have. The bottom line, anyone making such as outlandish claim is woefully incorrect.

To be objective, we must bear in mind three things. 1) Even if the 5-10% rates are still about right, they remain 5-10% of the player base who do deserve dev efforts into the aspects of the game they most enjoy. 2) A player who chooses to focus their efforts on PvP and those who prefer the Fel rules set are not necessarily the same people. 3) Subserver utilization rates do not necessarily reflect distain of the other 90-95% toward PvP. It is fair to assume it is an accurate reflection of distain for nonconsentual PvP, but they are also not necessarily the same thing.

I had to clarify earlier that despite a "yes" vote from me, I would have voted "no" if O/C revival mirrors what it was before. If O/C revives as an individual character choice and does not include guild play, I think more folks will at least look at it as an option. Add very nice shields, more folks will take a look. Keep it simple. If more players do begin participating in PvP, it may take away some of the trepedation many feel.

Yes the 90% to 95% was the stated break downs. Yes I agree there is NOTHING that suggest those numbers have changed. Some group is wanting to say 20% to 25% and I choose to not contest that in this kind of conversation, as it simply does NOT CHANGE anything and then breaks down to a You say N I say N *Sticks Tongue out* But yes, I will MOCK the 50%+ as being .... what it obviously is.

-------

Absolutly there are REALLY 3 major (does not reflect numbers, rather a super group) camps of UO players, NOT TWO.

There are those that have a PvP Play Style and that is it.

There are those that have a PvM Play style and that is it.

In all honesty, if that was the end of this story there would be no arguments, there would be no fights, there would be a healthy Felucca/Sp and a Healthy Trammel.

It is this 3RD Group that stirs the pots, that initiates (either purposefully or not) all the IN GAME (to distinguish from those that frequent ALL boards to feed their addiction to Online Verbal Violance) problems.

This 3RD group Integrates, into them selves, a Subset of the Felucca Rules and a Subset of the Trammel Rules. Because the other two major groups are polar the middle group can always afford to come off sounding .... constructive. BUT the constructive is nothing more than to try to destroy (aware or not aware) the Felucca Rule Set and the Trammel Rule Set. To Replace them with their own Hybridized Rule Set.

Picture, A Torch to the Ground on the one side, A Torch to the Ground on the other side, A Barrel of Gasoline in the Middle .... draining out.

This is NOT a condemnation of any one of the 3. It is saying the MIX IS WRONG, it can only end up in FIRE. A fire that will burn all camps, but NOT EQUALLY.

So yes the 5% to 10% deserve protection. They need some one to speak for them to STOP this dilution of the PvP aspect of UO.

How is it being diluted?

RAW UO, the original version. Your gonna be killed. Get use to it. Your gonna get looted. Get use to it. Your gonna get stolen from. Get use to it.

The Waters of Dilution.

Kill Felluca were there is a Red behind ever bush.

Implement Duels. (read as a CURRENT (as in today, but not tomorrow) extreme version of dilution)

Yes the 5% to 10% NEED A VOICE.

-------------

Yes, I was there when the MASSIVE flood of players LEFT UO for EQ where PvM and PvP were seperated by virtue of NOT BEING ON THE SAME WORLD/SHARD. This is what they VOTED FOR, to BE SEPARATED FROM the PKR's, FROM PvP. The same VOTE occurred when Trammel went LIVE. Yet tghere are those that would creatively interpret that to be 50%+ of them ARE PvPr's. Two actions, indicating the exact same numbers (90% to 95%), one is strictly separated as in NO CONTACT, the other is allowed contact, yet there are those that creativly interpret this as being PvP people.

This is the dominant perspective of the Trammel players. They simply DO NOT WANT anything to do with PvP and find it totally ..... irritating. BUT THEY HAVE NO CHOICE other than to abandon UO, which of course they have chosen NOT TO DO to date. But Every Camel has that Limit, that ONE LAST STRAW that will break its back.

DD/OSI learned this in a very very very painful way. Because some one is there, does NOT constitute they are there because they LIKE IT. When 95% of the population votes (as in were they play) for a specific Play Style, the Game Stewards WILL BE WELL ADVISED TO PAY ATTENTION and NOT repeat DD/OSI's - EQ/SOE's, mistake.

-----------

Humor:

"The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the one"

vs

"The needs of the one out weigh the needs of the many"

A society (aka majority) should never ever allow the rights and needs of the few to be trampled on, to be destroyed, for NO GOOD REASON, that they should be protected when ever they can be, in so far as those rights and needs do NOT bring dangerous, life threatening harm to the many.

For what it is worth, the above is how I FEEL about HUMANITIES stewardship of Earth, were the MINORITY is the NON HUMANS.

 

[UltimaSword]

Well the poll results speak for themselves... well devs... any response... I personally think this might be a great idea.

 

[Wenchkin]

Ok, Enigma, let's do what you suggest, leave Tram alone, just O/C in Fel. Then wait a week, and see how many players start to complain that Fel has something they can't access

If there was any reward from winning fights in O/C there'd be complaints from Tram players who want items, but not the risk. But by then it's a case of "tough luck, come to Fel if you want it". You've made your bed in that respect. I won't push the issue further

If we said "it must be in Fel only and fun" there'd be complaints that Fel had something Tram players were "forced" to visit Fel for. Heaven forbid! And here we are talking about something which was in Tram before and was ok and how dare we suggest sharing it with Tram again. That's us trying to mess up Tram. Not trying to share out content or allow Tram players a bit of PvP if the chose it. I think you've done a great job of getting hold of the wrong end of the stick, but that's not my problem.

Wenchy

 

[Radun]

Make the order or chaos shields again but leave the regular equipable ones for people who like the look.

Then add Properties that would make a PvPer want to use it even pvmer for that matter something like this

Order/chaos shield
Spell channeling
HcI 15
HcI 15
FC +1
mr 2
Phys +5
fire +5
cold +5
poison +5
energy +5

Instead of having them all set values, make the intensities random... Instead of having all of the properties on each shield, make it randomly pick 4...
Add something new that will make everyone want one and would be exclusive to O/C Shields: Everything Superslayer... which overrides (doesn't stack with) any other slayers you may have equipped on your weapon, book, or talisman. Normal slayer's damage bonus for fighting skills as well as all damaging spells.
Make it the reward for a quest that should be difficult to complete... Make Dark Fathers drop some token quest key into one of the order/chaos player's (selected randomly) backpacks when DF dies. Naturally the quest should only be available to Order/Chaos players, and the quest keys only appear in a backpack if the character is in an O/C guild...
..and of course... only players in Order guilds/alliances can use Order Shields, and only Chaos guild/alliance members can use Chaos Shields... (should go without saying but I did anyway)

This 3RD group Integrates, into them selves, a Subset of the Felucca Rules and a Subset of the Trammel Rules. Because the other two major groups are polar the middle group can always afford to come off sounding .... constructive. BUT the constructive is nothing more than to try to destroy (aware or not aware) the Felucca Rule Set and the Trammel Rule Set. To Replace them with their own Hybridized Rule Set.

Make the reward be nothing too far off from what's ordinarily available, aside from a significant PvM advantage, and you'll get the "Hybridization" without hurting anyone that doesn't want to be involved. There's a market for that. Some players will want the PvM advantage and welcome the PvP that it comes with.
Would certainly make the gauntlet more interesting.

 

[Kaleb]

I can not resist and I am sure it will go to your head *Shrug* but it doesn't affect me so .....

You made it perfectly clear that you have NO CAPACITY to understand the gibberish I type. That YOU can NOT READ IT AND MAKE SENSE.

BUT

You seemingly have some .... uhm, 9th sense that allows you to ....uhm JUST KNOW something that was in one of my replies? I guess it was by OSMOSIS? Perhaps Jupiter was in the 7Th house at that moment (astronomers/astrologers quit laughing)

Do not wast your time reading my post let alone bore the crap out of other by trying to make your desire to FORCE PvP (shall we link your thread advocating Factions include Trammel?) to be in Trammel, all about me THE PERSON AND WHAT A MORON I AM.

IF you were to debate an issue, YOU WOULD TALK ABOUT THE ISSUE. What YOU and others do is 100% ATTACK THE POSTER. That is a form of *caugh* DEBATE I do NOT care to be a part of.

You do have a nice life though

So far your the only one here who makes no sense its like you dont know what chaos/order guilds were in the first place. Let me guess you started playing UO after AOS? You make no case what so ever on how it would hurt the PvM playstyle or tram ruleset. I dont know what shard your on maby one of the dead ones but I do know theres a good amount of people in fel on some more populated servers.

Poll results verify a good amount of people who use stratics would like them to come back and I havnt voted yet though I'm all for it. anything that has the potential to get me to play my EA accounts. Anything that has the potential to bring back some subs, anything that has the potential to bring in new players, I'm all for it.

The most it would hurt tram is that it may get some trammies interested in pvp. Guildmasters have to choose if their guild is order or chaos or neither.

 

[Radun]

C/O never changed Trammel back then and I can't see it changing it now. Most didn't even know it exsisted till just a short time ago.

As for the shields I think that the gargoyal armor and weapons will make up for any single item. A human can only use human armor as well as the other way around.

I think everyone should not see you as being orange. I think one side blue the other orange (not red) so people can see exactly what is going on. Everyone showing up as orange makes it look like just a couple guys in the same guild going at it again. No one ever looked to see what kind of shield you had. It could have been two people that was in the order guild working on PVP skills. Who knows, it may make more join one side or the other.

I also never seen a lot of people fighting in cities like Brit either. Almost everyone wants more room.

I disagree with your "Most people didn't know about it" claim, but I agree it should be brought back... with the changes I stated in my previous post in this thread (two replies up)
They didn't show up orange to anyone who wasn't their enemy. They had tags appended to their Character name so that everyone could tell you were O/C and which side you're on. I've seen O/C fight in towns and dungeons in tram... It had no effect on anyone who wasn't involved.

Oh and one more thing... Unlike factions, Order/Chaos guilds were once commanded (at times) by their respective Lords. (British/Blackthorn)
I wasn't in one of those guilds at the time that they were commanded, but I've seen screenies where Lord Blackthorn was commanding his followers in the area where system messages are shown (skill gains etc). Unless I'm mistaken (someone correct me if I'm wrong) I'm pretty sure it was from being in a Chaos guild.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Ok, Enigma, let's do what you suggest, leave Tram alone, just O/C in Fel. Then wait a week, and see how many players start to complain that Fel has something they can't access

If there was any reward from winning fights in O/C there'd be complaints from Tram players who want items, but not the risk. But by then it's a case of "tough luck, come to Fel if you want it". You've made your bed in that respect. I won't push the issue further

If we said "it must be in Fel only and fun" there'd be complaints that Fel had something Tram players were "forced" to visit Fel for. Heaven forbid! And here we are talking about something which was in Tram before and was ok and how dare we suggest sharing it with Tram again. That's us trying to mess up Tram. Not trying to share out content or allow Tram players a bit of PvP if the chose it. I think you've done a great job of getting hold of the wrong end of the stick, but that's not my problem.

Wenchy

Not a problem, and I am 100% confident I can deal with the Trammel players that will whine about wanting a Reward from Felucca without also accepting the Rule Set of Felucca.

I am sure it will be a relatively straight up and down statement.

You want a Reward that is a function of PvP, then your going to need to go to Felucca and play by their House Rules. As Felucca House rules are about PvP and Trammel House Rules are about PvM (aka NOT PvP).

-----------------

So what if they did Put Order vs Chaos ONLY in Felucca.

What if you could ONLY have one or the other shield.

What if equipping that Shield enlisted you in the appropriate Guild.

What if equipping that Shield excluded you from any kind of PvP, except Order vs Chaos.

What if equipping that Shield excluded any kind of beneficial or NON beneficial act by any one that was NOT in Order or Chaos Guilds

What if Red's and/or Blues could equip the shield and be a part of the above rules.

To avoid the obvious exploit, once you unequip the shield, your still in the guild for an additional 24 hours. (Kind of cheesy and on the side of a Nuclear Bomb solution, but simple and effective)

What if you had to get the Shields the way you did originally and these shields enabled the above, but in no other way were different from any other Order or Chaos Shield. That the Chaos Shield does not have some extra benefit assigned to it, because Chaos was thought to be the minority/under dog/in need of help.

 

[Radun]

O/C used to be tram too, and had no negative effect on anyone by it happening in tram... just like guild wars now.
if O/C came back, it should be the same way... every landmass
Allowing it in tram is in no way forcing anyone to pvp.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

It is better, tastier and entertaining to harass the TRAMMIES than ever try to do anything like this for The Abandoned Lands of Felluca. My hat off to the Event Organizers and I hope they have the most successful, entertaining event in UO history.

[Siege Perilous]
On Saturday, 20th September at 8pm Eastern the Gilfane guild will be hosting the fourth 'Werewolf' event on Siege Perilous. Participants all play the part of villagers in the local community, but some hold a sinister secret; they are werewolves! The event is played out in alternate night and day phases. At night, the werewolves secretly select a victim to kill off. During the say, the surviving villagers try and determine who among them is a werewolf and will vote to have one person executed. This cycle repeats until either all the werewolves or all the normal villagers are eliminated. It only takes a few minutes of playing to understand the basic rules but if required full details can be found at www.gilfane.com/Events/Werewolf.html All are welcome to attend and no skills or equipment are required. The event is to be held at The Tortured Elf tavern in Gilfane town and a map is available on the Stratics event post. here.

-----------------

... Bunch of Self aggrandizing personal opinion about every body. Or in short he thinks that every one sees it as he sees it and everyone agrees with him.

....

for posterity, "had no negative effect on anyone by it happening in tram"

....

Allowing it in tram is in no way forcing anyone to pvp.

The poster clearly knows that absolutely no one, not one single person, had any negative effect, the poster has this special knowledge of what every single person, thinks, feels and wants. I am quite sure if some one did have a negative response, the poster would state they are clearly delusional and crazy as he would know better than they do about their own reaction.

Fine you want to do this YET AGAIN?

Fine YOU find your self in Felucca.

YOU find yourself surrounded by 100 REDS.

YOU are told by the leader, "NO ONE HERE WILL FORCE YOU TO PvP, DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?"

YOU reply "Yes I do"

The Leader says, "Good NOW PREPARE TO BE PK'd, chose to PvP or NOT but NO ONE WILL FORCE YOU TO. Ignore us OR NOT as NO ONE WILL FORCE YOU TO LISTEN TO US DEMEAN YOU AND DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MAKE YOU, THE PLAYER MAD AS HADES. GO AHEAD AND RUN AS NO ONE WILL FORCE YOU TO STAND STILL WHILE YOUR BEING PK'd and WE WILL FOLLOW YOU".

Yours is the rhetoric OF NO CHOICE. The disingenuous, cynical, demeaning rhetoric of "Oh, my a Disney World here, were by all means if you find our Order vs Chaos irritating we will certainly go else where". Now lets hear YOUR CRAP RHETORIC of "Hey they can go else where. Yeah that's right the REDS in Blue bodies finally get to tell the TRAMMIES TO GO SCREW OFF AND RUN AWAY. And then of course follow them were ever they go, so they can treat abuse them iuntill they eventually grow tired of the con/scam then Do the PATENTED AND FAMOUS "Grow some and defend yourself. I will teach you to be a MAN. YOU MORON YOUR NOT HAVING FUN BECAUSE YOUR NOT BEING GANKED BY ME".

So feel free to regurgitate your disingenuous, cynical crap about how NO ONE IS FORCING ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING IN LIFE, THE GAME, THIS SECOND. This is so obvious, One can quit the game for ever. One can quit Life for ever. NO ONE IS EVER FORCED TO DO ANYTHING, EVER.

Who cares if the TRAMMIES quit the game.

It is clear your group KNOWS that THE TRAMMIES constitute less than 50% of the subscriptions so no damage done to you.

BETTER THE TRAMMIES QUIT than you do anything, MAKE ANY EFFORT to make The Abandoned Lands of Felucca a FUN PLACE TO PLAY. Because what could possibly top making all the Trammies quit?

 

[Kaleb]

Seriously I dont understand you. Your going off on this rant about pk's but this is about order / chaos guilds, something that absolutely has no affect on your playstyle. Are you just getting kicks out of trolling this thread or are you bipolar?

Some people currently like the action here at our dual pits is a guy both in factions and chaos guild

And to disprove the fact that a non tram fel server is always empty its not the case (granted this is Pre aos rules so it pwns right there alone).

And this is just for fun I always wanted to dismember her

 

[Viper09]

Everyone here can explain how it is not forcing the playstyle on others to have PvP in Trammel.

But you, Enigma, have failed to explain how it would force the playstyle on others. I ask you again, Enigma, explain how PvP in Trammel would force a playstyle on others.

You keep talking about miners being Pked, innocent players being ganked, etc, but this is nothing but examples of playing in fel, not tram. Either give your evidence or stop trolling this thread giving irrelevant stories.

 

[Radun]

I understand what you're saying about 'technically nobody can force you to do anything in life'... I've read a little about existentialism... The fact is this: O/C PvP doesn't force anyone to participate. No 'technicality' about it. You could be surrounded by 100 Chaos players in trammel, and there's no way they could do harm to you unless you accepted it by choosing to be their enemy. There is no way PvP would be forced onto you and I don't mean 'technically'.
Are you really that upset about people having the option of PvPing in tram? is it because you'd have to see them fight? rolleyes:
Do you flip out like that every time you see people fighting on a tram ruleset facet? If so then it's no wonder why you have problems with people following you around talking smack.

 

[Wenchkin]

Not a problem, and I am 100% confident I can deal with the Trammel players that will whine about wanting a Reward from Felucca without also accepting the Rule Set of Felucca.

Good, that saves me a lot of typing lol

So what if they did Put Order vs Chaos ONLY in Felucca.

What if you could ONLY have one or the other shield.

What if equipping that Shield enlisted you in the appropriate Guild.

What if equipping that Shield excluded you from any kind of PvP, except Order vs Chaos.

What if equipping that Shield excluded any kind of beneficial or NON beneficial act by any one that was NOT in Order or Chaos Guilds

What if Red's and/or Blues could equip the shield and be a part of the above rules.

To avoid the obvious exploit, once you unequip the shield, your still in the guild for an additional 24 hours. (Kind of cheesy and on the side of a Nuclear Bomb solution, but simple and effective)

What if you had to get the Shields the way you did originally and these shields enabled the above, but in no other way were different from any other Order or Chaos Shield. That the Chaos Shield does not have some extra benefit assigned to it, because Chaos was thought to be the minority/under dog/in need of help.

I don't have a problem with sticking with my side once I choose it. You learn the system then decide whether to participate. And accept any consequences, good and bad. No issue for me.

Wenchy

 

[Warrior of Time]

This is nothing more than another guild war. One guild is Chaos the other Order. In the guild you can fight, not in the guild you can't. The main diff is that they are not marked in the same way. and the guilds are larger. This is needed for UO/SA. Without it people will not be able to find a warring guild large enough to fight. It worked before and I see no reason it won't now. It would be diff if it had not been in the game before. This thread is to let people know what and why it would help the game.

To me this is only asking if it would be ok to put DF into the game again. Since you seen DF before and know what it is like to fight him. You know what he will be like if he is in again. It is not as if you never seen him before.

 

[Lord Kynd]

i vote a strong NO to this.

why ?
because we now have these shields as common loot , would hate to equip one and all of a sudden get ganked, or forget and be at bank and get ganked.
no thanks, i'm glad they removed it when they did.

in case you forgot.. you use to be able to get the shields only thru NPC's .

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

i vote a strong NO to this.

why ?
because we now have these shields as common loot , would hate to equip one and all of a sudden get ganked, or forget and be at bank and get ganked.
no thanks, i'm glad they removed it when they did.

in case you forgot.. you use to be able to get the shields only thru NPC's .

The shields should have never become common loot to begin with in my opinion, and also if the system is implemented correctly then anyone who isn't Order/Chaos would have the shield vanish as soon as they try to equip it.