Another insurance proposal

[o2bavr6]

so what your saying is, is that you just dont like the armor i currently wear. because my suit only cost 4mil instead of 500mil, it isnt risk.rolleyes:

And yes... if your suit only costs 4 mill, I would throw it away, just like I have done many times at luna bank.

I regularly throw very good armor away because I have too much as it is. And the really good pieces I have left over I give to guild mates for free.

A 4 mill gold suit is only like 570K per item, in other words GARBAGE.

 

[o2bavr6]

i was talking about TODAY, so you could see how a nekkid person survives. no good thief runs nekkid in today's uo.

in the future, as i have stated, people would just use their blessed noobed **** or gm gear in fear of losing whatever in pvp. keep your suit for pvming. it would allow NEW players to compete, which they currently dont have a chance of doing.

if you havnt noticed, all the shards are losing players. we need new players to come, and maybe entice some old players to give it a go again. i believe the removal of trammel from felucca would facilitate both needs.

And you think thieves will bring people back? ROFL.

I also exclusively play in Fel and have been playing since Sept 1997 without a break. And as much as I hate to say this, it is because of PK's and Theives that they even made Tram.

I do agree that Risk vs Reward needs to be looked at, but the reward should be in items you get from loot off of monsters, not players.

And do you believe for a second that any of these changes will hurt the rich players? it will devastate the poor players.

Same for when people say increase insurance to 10K per item when they die.

Like i will care about losing 70K at a time when I die if I have hundreds of millions of gold?

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

The point is you CAN use your template naked and the skill is open to too much griefing.

I will say it again. What is to stop this scenario: 3 naked theives in town, first theif disarms an uber weapon from a person, (thief gets guard whacked), second theif has his macro set to insta steal the weapon from the person, (thief gets guard whacked), third theif loots weapon with a script off of the corpse?

ANd just because you say you chose to wear armor, doesnt mean you have to, for your tamplate to be 100% viable.

Again there is No RISK..la la

i CAN use my dexer with nothing on my corpse. i CAN use my mage with nothing on my corpse. even without insurance i could. i have too many noobed weapons and regs sitting around for it to not happen. i KNOW there are many others with the same resources.

NO RISK

and if that is the problem for you, lets add a tool we need in our pack to pull off a steal. maybe 'gloves of swiping' or 'regs of collection'. will that give me risk?

Assuming I am reading your reply correctly are you trying to say that almost all other templates can also be viable naked? You cant be serious.
You could run around on a naked warrior with noob items for a month and never once kill only an average player let alone the standard, experienced pvper. This of course means that you can play for one month straight and gain absolutely nothing. In that same amount of time the naked thief with 0 insurance used to steal about 10 dozen valuable items.


Do you just not grasp the fact that dying is a part of the stealing process? It is not a hindrance at all to the naked thief. He steals, he runs, he usually then dies about 75% of the time. The death has cost him absolutely nothing as he has nothing on him and of course nothing insured.
But what about the other 25% of the time when he is not killed and gets away with your extremely valuable item? Pure satisfaction for the thief.

It is a lather/rinse/repeat process that involves the thief & a victim. The only possible winner is the thief.

Then take into account the fact that most of the thieves whining for the old days claim they really just crave the excitement of being chased lol. Now they have their satisfaction 100% of the time.
Or are we to believe as Rico says that the victim who just had his most valuable weapon stolen from him effortlessly by a naked thief is seriously enjoying his time while chasing the thief desperately trying to get his weapon back?

Have I just missed all the posts started by the non-thieves begging for the Devs to bring back thievery so they could chase down their most valuable weapons all ober Felucca?

Please...

 

[Remy_of_GOR]

the thing is, is this would only be an addition to the game, honestly, and you are so much against more to do?

people could still pvp fully geared-up and insured, it would just have to be guild wars in trammel, they could even bring back order/chaos for trammel pvp. people that like fighting with 500mil suits could still do so, with people that cant afford those would be able to compete in felucca.

this isnt just about thieves, you know.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

repost:
3 naked theives in town, first theif disarms an uber weapon from a person, (thief gets guard whacked), second theif has his macro set to insta steal the weapon from the person, (thief may get guard whacked), third theif loots weapon with a script off of the corpse?

ROFL. Yeah, because we all know thieves work in groups...la

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

It is of course a joke that anyone would attempt to categorize the thief as a pvper.

Why is that? Do I have to explain it again?

A thief is a player. A thief tries to steal things from other players, the other player attempts to either prevent the thief player from stealing from them, or they try to kill the player thief that just stole from them. PvP = player versus player. Understand?...la

 

[phantus]

as posted above, if a theif is naked and has an empty pack, his template is still viable.

do me a favor. log onto your dexer. insure your weapon. take off all of your armor and dont carry anything else. go fight in fel and see how long your template is viable.

and if I choose to make said dexxer a stealther and wait for someone who is low on health and sneak up on him while he is unsuspecting and AI him for an easy kill?

Thieves = Opportunists

All the supposed limits you guys keep putting up as an excuse is truly amusing. I also love the fact you act like everyone is going to play the way you think they do. The reason thieves are the way they are today are not because of the thieves in this thread. They are because of the flocks of mindless idiots that saw an easy way to make a score. Should changes be made to thieves those same dregs will return once again.

 

[o2bavr6]

ROFL. Yeah, because we all know thieves work in groups...la

In the old days before Tram i saw it many times.

And as you say, just because they may not, doenst mean they cant!.. la la

edit:
The point is you cant defend against it under the current ruleset.

But if they maybe made it to where you could kill a thief on site without going grey or getting guard killed them I might be more open to bringing them back.

Until then, you should stay on SP, you arent wanted on the 25 other shards..la la

 

[o2bavr6]

Why is that? Do I have to explain it again?

A thief is a player. A thief tries to steal things from other players, the other player attempts to either prevent the thief player from stealing from them, or they try to kill the player thief that just stole from them. PvP = player versus player. Understand?...la

Maybe we should explain it to you again.

On the 25 other shards, thieves are nerfed.. So technically its TvH.. Thief vs Himself.. la la

Edit:
http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=101728
As this first post in the link says, if you want risk vs reward, come to one of the 25 other shards and play, just don't insure your items.
Good call Lily

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

In the old days before Tram i saw it many times.

And as you say, just because they may not, doenst mean they cant!.. la la

Please provide a link to a post where I stated that.

edit:
The point is you cant defend against it under the current ruleset.

But if they maybe made it to where you could kill a thief on site without going grey or getting guard killed them I might be more open to bringing them back.

Until then, you should stay on SP, you arent wanted on the 25 other shards..la la

I suppose you have missed my threads requesting that thieves get "perma grey" status back? Oh and in regards to staying on Siege, lol, I'll play any shard I wish, but thanks for your concern...la

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

On the 25 other shards, thieves are nerfed.. So technically its TvH.. Thief vs Himself.. la la

Technically, you are completely wrong (not the fact that thieves have been nerfed), but the great thing about this forum, you are allowed to be wrong. *cheers*...la

 

[D'Amavir]

Maybe we should explain it to you again.

On the 25 other shards, thieves are nerfed.. So technically its TvH.. Thief vs Himself.. la la

Edit:
http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=101728
As this first post in the link says, if you want risk vs reward, come to one of the 25 other shards and play, just don't insure your items.
Good call Lily

Nerfed? Yes. But not completely eliminated, yet. They can still steal scrolls once in a while, that's pvp. They can still steal regs, that's pvp. They can still steal bandies, that's pvp. Granted, besides the scrolls the steals aren't very enjoyable for the thief. But, its still pvp. That's player (thief) versus player (character stolen from). That's pretty much common sense.

 

[D'Amavir]

Do you just not grasp the fact that dying is a part of the stealing process?

That comment right there just defines the flawed viewpoint in UO today. Dying should be a part of all walks of life in UO. The fact that people today can gear up in 500m gold suits and solo the baddest things in game without dying is just sad and its points out the need for change in the item/insurance system.

 

[o2bavr6]

Please provide a link to a post where I stated that.



I suppose you have missed my threads requesting that thieves get "perma grey" status back? Oh and in regards to staying on Siege, lol, I'll play any shard I wish, but thanks for your concern...la

You stated that you wear armor because you choose to, even though you dont have to.. la la

 

[Connor_Graham]

The fact that people today can gear up in 500m gold suits and solo the baddest things in game without dying is just sad and its points out the need for change in the item/insurance system.

Ok, first off, PvM'rs aren't wearing 500m suits to solo anything. My suit is probably one of the more high value ones, and I'd say it was worth maybe 200mil on a good day tops, and that's only because of a few specific items I have.

Second, there are only a select few that are soloing the high end stuff, and that is only possible because they happen to be very good at what they do. It takes a hell of a lot more than a good suit and weapon to solo "the baddest things in game".

Third, Bards have been soloing the previsouly highest end creatures in this game in crap LRC luck suits for years, yet no one ever complained about them.

 

[o2bavr6]

Technically, you are completely wrong (not the fact that thieves have been nerfed), but the great thing about this forum, you are allowed to be wrong. *cheers*...la

So I state the thieves were nerfed and you say I am correct about that, but I'm still wrong? ... la la la

 

[D'Amavir]

Third, Bards have been soloing the previsouly highest end creatures in this game in crap LRC luck suits for years, yet no one ever complained about them.

They didn't? You must be new then. I can understand your flawed views in that light then.

 

[D'Amavir]

So I state the thieves were nerfed and you say I am correct about that, but I'm still wrong? ... la la la

Maybe you should actually read what you are posting AND what you are posting about. You made a comment in support of the 'thieves aren't pvp'. Thieves are pvp and yes, they have been nerfed. But, they are still pvp. To clarify in case you don't read part of this, thieves are pvp.

 

[o2bavr6]

Nerfed? Yes. But not completely eliminated, yet. They can still steal scrolls once in a while, that's pvp. They can still steal regs, that's pvp. They can still steal bandies, that's pvp. Granted, besides the scrolls the steals aren't very enjoyable for the thief. But, its still pvp. That's player (thief) versus player (character stolen from). That's pretty much common sense.

You are correct that they can steal scrolls. Although I have done thousands upon thousands of champ spawns and not once have I or a guild mate been stolen from.

What are reagents?

Yes they can steal bandaids but when I see a thief at yew gate steal its almost always from a red.

I like to think that player vs player requires interaction between the two players. Even when it comes to pk's at least the blue can defend himself.

when dealing with thieves, most people have no way at all to defend against it.

 

[o2bavr6]

That comment right there just defines the flawed viewpoint in UO today. Dying should be a part of all walks of life in UO. The fact that people today can gear up in 500m gold suits and solo the baddest things in game without dying is just sad and its points out the need for change in the item/insurance system.

Or how about maybe a change in the damage that monsters dole out instead?

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

when dealing with thieves, most people have no way at all to defend against it.

I really wish you would stop spreading this falsehood...la

 

[Nexus]

repost:
3 naked theives in town, first theif disarms an uber weapon from a person, (thief gets guard whacked), second theif has his macro set to insta steal the weapon from the person, (thief may get guard whacked), third theif loots weapon with a script off of the corpse?

ROFL. Yeah, because we all know thieves work in groups...la

Don't forget that now when a thief steals if he dies right after the item automatically is returned to the person it was stolen from. This situation can't happen anymore.

 

[D'Amavir]

You are correct that they can steal scrolls. Although I have done thousands upon thousands of champ spawns and not once have I or a guild mate been stolen from.

What are reagents?

Yes they can steal bandaids but when I see a thief at yew gate steal its almost always from a red.

I like to think that player vs player requires interaction between the two players. Even when it comes to pk's at least the blue can defend himself.

when dealing with thieves, most people have no way at all to defend against it.

If a pk attacks someone and that person doesn't fight back, then its not non consensual pvp in your mind then? That's fine. If that is what your view of pvp is then that's completely your right.

Other people feel that pvp means one player against another player. Stealing from another player, in that sense, is 100% player vs player. Stealing from a crate? Not so much.

And no one is denying that thieves are nerfed and rare on prod shards these days. That's the problem.

 

[D'Amavir]

Or how about maybe a change in the damage that monsters dole out instead?

Boosting monsters just leads to more whining about needing better items. That's the problem for sure. One leads to the other which leads back to the one over and over again.

 

[D'Amavir]

Don't forget that now when a thief steals if he dies right after the item automatically is returned to the person it was stolen from. This situation can't happen anymore.

You mean there is risk to lose the item they stole? No way!

 

[Ailish]

Third, Bards have been soloing the previsouly highest end creatures in this game in crap LRC luck suits for years, yet no one ever complained about them.

Actually, yes, they did complain about them until they were balanced (read nerfed) - provoke used to be chance based, at 20 provo you had about a 20% chance of sucess on any target, you just had to try enough times. I worked my provo up to around 80 before that change on Blood Ele/Balron provo. (Not saying it was right, but it sure was fun!)

 

[Violence]

Ricco I'm breaking my promise here not to participate in this pointless thread but rather to ask you something..

Apart of "...La" and extremely cheesy one-line come-backs what else do you have to offer?

More than half your posts are pure nonsense.. Hey, if you're a Moderator now I don't wanna be on Stratics next year. The owner of it might be L**o or Alc****s.

Especially on Insurance threads you spearhead a movement that is not only quite unclear on what it wants and WHY, not only dictates that every poster who disagrees with you must know by heart ALL THE OTHER THREADS' CONTENTS but also accept your point of view as FACT, whereas the only FACT around these parts is that people don't want Insurance removed. Ask around in the game.

Speaking of which, IS IT even your game anymore? Perhaps you need to try other ones that offer item breaking, no insurance, dry looting and whatnot.

Come to think of it I broke no promise after all. This was directed AT YOU.
Anyway have a kick man! I "sense" you're actually having a good laugh here and none of what you say is serious... No, I HOPE it's this way.

See ya pal. :gun:

PS. : *Dismisses the OP as stupid indeed*

 

[o2bavr6]

If a pk attacks someone and that person doesn't fight back, then its not non consensual pvp in your mind then? That's fine. If that is what your view of pvp is then that's completely your right.

Other people feel that pvp means one player against another player. Stealing from another player, in that sense, is 100% player vs player. Stealing from a crate? Not so much.

And no one is denying that thieves are nerfed and rare on prod shards these days. That's the problem.

The point is that in most cases people can still attempt to defend themselves against a pker even if they dont want to. also a pker can not attack you in town.

it is extremely difficult to defend against a thief and thieves can also steal from you in town and not flag to you.

And finally it may be a "problem" to you, but it's no problem to the 95% of others who don't want the thief skill around at all.

So again, if anyone has a "problem" it's you people who want to bring back thieves.

I want to bring back 95HP damage word of deaths, but that sure isnt going to happen is it

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Apart of "...La" and extremely cheesy one-line come-backs what else do you have to offer?

Yes...la

 

[Radun]

They make trolls into moderators now?

...ohhhh he's moderator of the griefing forum, got it.

 

[o2bavr6]

Yes...la

Rico your standard answser is la.

You get asked a question and you say la.

how about discussing your thoughts on how the rest of the 25 shards would deal with thieves

la la to you

 

[o2bavr6]

Yes...la

Nice response, isnt that considered a troll?

la la

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Yes...la

Rico your standard answser is la.

You get asked a question and you say la.

how about discussing your thoughts on how the rest of the 25 shards would deal with thieves

la la to you

I'll direct you to the post in this thread in which I answered this question directly. Feel free to ignore it and ask me to answer it again...that's your choice...la

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Yes...la

Nice response, isnt that considered a troll?

la la

No...la

 

[Radun]

Correction: "Yes....la"
This thread is a prime example of trolling.

REREAD THE OP. This thread is NOT about removing insurance, but Rico and his fellow griefers have hijacked it to whine some more about how they can no longer grief other players by stealing their stuff... As if there wasn't already threads FOR that.

 

[o2bavr6]

I'll direct you to the post in this thread in which I answered this question directly. Feel free to ignore it and ask me to answer it again...that's your choice...la

Actualy you said that you did take risk by wearing armor and we said that you dont have to wear armor to be a thief.

The fact that you choose to wear it does not consitute risk compared to what people have to lose by bringing back thieves the way you want which includes insurance removal.

So no you did not answer the true question as to what the risk is for the people on the 25 other shards other than SP and Mung.

Now if it was made to where you could not steal from another person unless your armor was as an example, all 70's, corpse proof, 3/6 casting (with orni) with 9MR and 45 LMC and 55 DCI and 100LRC all uninsured, then I would agree with you.

But that want be the case will it?

 

[o2bavr6]

Dismiss me as stupid or whatever, but does the following have any merit?

Leave insurance just the way it is re. cost and recovery of items. However every time you die and insurance pays off, you lose some percent, say 5% of your resists and possibly 5% of your weapon's abilities. This is a stackable loss. The second time you are killed, the percentage would be 10 and so on.

Then in a central location, perhaps in Brittan there would be a special shop where you can go at any time to recoup all the total percentage loss you are carrying with a lump sum payment. This would attach a penalty to using insurance that is progressive, finally requiring the benefactor to leave the scene of battle to re-up.

I posted before that this would just aid the bigest or pest PvP guilds and hurt the smaller less experienced PvPers.

There are times we lose spawns, but usualy when we are outnumbered 3 to 1, but in many cases we only have a couple of people who even die once.

 

[ColterDC]

The fact that they made this worthless leg humper a Mod just proves how low the bar must be set for Stratics Mods.

la = what stupid people say when they think they're being clever.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

I'll direct you to the post in this thread in which I answered this question directly. Feel free to ignore it and ask me to answer it again...that's your choice...la

Actualy you said that you did take risk by wearing armor and we said that you dont have to wear armor to be a thief.

The fact that you chose to wear it does not consitute risk compared to what people have to lose by bringing back thieves the way you want.

So no you did not answer the true question as to what the risk is for the people on the 25 other shards other than SP and Mung.

Now if it was made to where you could not steal from another person unless your armor was as an example, all 70's, corpse proof, 3/6 casting (with orni) with 9MR and 45 LMC and 55 DCI and 100LRC all uninsured, then I would agree with you.

But that want be the case will it?

LOL, it's all or nothing with you. If we don't lose everything...it's not a risk in your book. Wow. All this hatred toward people who steal one item at a time...and not even successful all that often. *shrugs*...la

 

[o2bavr6]

LOL, it's all or nothing with you. If we don't lose everything...it's not a risk in your book. Wow. All this hatred toward people who steal one item at a time...and not even successful all that often. *shrugs*...la

Not at all, but if you look at what you want, we also consider it one sided and you don't.

Why should I take 8 months of hard work to get a val hammer to have you be able to steal it in 1 second?

Explain how that is not one sided?

 

[o2bavr6]

and not even successful all that often. *shrugs*...la

So a Val hammer on todays market is 25 Mill.
Your suit of armor you would wear on a thief barely costs 1 mill,if not free.

How is this not ones sided?

*Shrugs* back to you.. la la

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

LOL, it's all or nothing with you. If we don't lose everything...it's not a risk in your book. Wow. All this hatred toward people who steal one item at a time...and not even successful all that often. *shrugs*...la

Not at all, but if you look at what you want, we also consider it one sided and you don't.

Why should I take 8 months of hard work to get a val hammer to have you be able to steal it in 1 second?

Explain how that is not one sided?

Take the time to protect the hammer, and there is zero chance for a thief to steal it ever.

How exactly is that a problem?...la

 

[Radun]

reread the OP... what effect does it have on stealing?

oh nothing? so I guess we're very off topic?

 

[o2bavr6]

Take the time to protect the hammer, and there is zero chance for a thief to steal it ever.

How exactly is that a problem?...la

Take the time to earn your own via the BoD system or buy one legit like everyone else.

You also know very well that the reward ends up in your pack and can be stolen before the person can even try to do anything about it.

Remember the old days when thieves would be hidden near the architect npc to steal people house deeds? that used to happen all the time.

You can rationalize all you want, but at the end of the day, you will not convince anyone that you are correct and that your system is fair and balanced in regards to risk vs reward.

 

[o2bavr6]

reread the OP... what effect does it have on stealing?

oh nothing? so I guess we're very off topic?

actually you are right

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

You also know very well that the reward ends up in your pack and can be stolen before the person can even try to do anything about it.

I'm sorry, but your logic is flawed. If you know how the game works, it is very easy to collect bod rewards, and get them safely into your bank or house without them being stolen. There are plenty of things you can do to protect those items, as I said earlier, to the point where the thief has no chance at all to steal them...la

 

[Radun]

I still don't get why everyone thinks this is the appropriate thread for crying about the fact that in order to grief other players via stealing, you have to play on the crappiest shard.

 

[o2bavr6]

I'm sorry, but your logic is flawed. If you know how the game works, it is very easy to collect bod rewards, and get them safely into your bank or house without them being stolen. There are plenty of things you can do to protect those items, as I said earlier, to the point where the thief has no chance at all to steal them...la

When you complete a bod you have to drop it on the blacksmith.

WHen you get a reward it ends up in your pack.

So when you get the Val hammer as a reward you are in town and it ends up in your pack.

At that precise moment a thief can steal it.

So how is my logic flawed?

 

[Radun]

So how is my logic flawed?

hey did anyone see the episode of south park where cartman goes 500 years into the future and the whole world is atheist, but there's different sects of atheism?
"Their logic is flawed! Their answer to 'the great question' is different from ours!"

A little bit off-topic I know, but I guessed it wouldn't be hurting anything, seeing as we've been off topic since the 2nd post!

 

[o2bavr6]

hey did anyone see the episode of south park where cartman goes 500 years into the future and the whole world is atheist, but there's different sects of atheism?
"Their logic is flawed! Their answer to 'the great question' is different from ours!"

A little bit off-topic I know, but I guessed it wouldn't be hurting anything, seeing as we've been off topic since the 2nd post!

I missed that one

edit:
yes he plays on SP