How to steal in trammel...for new thieves and old

[Sir Kenga]

Just a bit of social engineering? xD

 

[Tovladian Soltyr]

Ok I very rarely stop by UHaul for the simple fact it seems to be filled with ego inflated infants. However I simply feel the need to give my input here since in general the only thing I play in almost every game out there, weather it be an online MMO, Single player console RPG, or a table top game (D&D and others) I play 1 of 2 characters the most.

1. Rogue/Thief class

or

2. Hunter/Ranger class

Now the reason I'm going to give my input here is cause it is fairly obvious that this thread is on the brink of not knowing the difference between game and real life. There is a fine line between "Playing" a thief and "Being" a thief.

Playing a thief involves roleplaying, you know what roleplaying is right....pretending. Or what my mother use to call "Playing make bebelieve". The things that you state in your post in the thief forum isn't really "Playing" a thief to be honest. Since your using the mechanics orginally ment for FEL in trammel and stealing from people AFK and what not that is not playing a thief. You see a true thief player knows there is risk involved in their profession, it the thrill of the chase when you get caught, being able to brag about how you got away. That's why stealing still works on ANYONE in FEL not just guild mates. When you join a tram guild with the whole perpose being that you're going to steal from them, that's not "Playing" a thief that in general is "Being" a dishonest person.

The "Play Style" you are refering to is not the "Play Style" of the thief, and I would appreciate you not giving TRUE thief roleplayers a bad name. The "Play Style" you are discribing is the "Play Style" of a Griefer, nothing more. The fact that you do what you do in a facet it wasn't intended for is an exploit and I hope when you do get caught you get paged on faster then someone spamming insta-ban words at the bank.

In your thread I saw you mention something about "It's just a Pixel", well next time you say that to yourself sit back and reflect for a moment. Is it "Just a Pixel" to the person that spent hours upon hours collecting and saving up gold to get it, or perhaps spent hours or even days in Doom killing to get that 1 arty they were after. Is it just a pixel to them? Or is it a representation of their hard work? Or what if that one item you stole was something of sentamental value given to them by a friend that has quit the game or maybe even worse passed away? Is it "Just a Pixel" to that person? Maybe it was the VERY first item they got as part of an in game event, that gives them those warm and fuzzy feelings inside....is it "Just A Pixel" to them?

Remember how I said there's a difference between "Playing" a thief and "Being" one. Well you seem like you "Are" a thief, not "Playing" a thief, just from your moral outlook on this whole thing. The mentality you show here can only lead me to assume that you are the type of person that would steal in real life not only in game. I find that disheartening to say the least, that your enjoyment of the game is to cause others dismay and misery.

Congradulations on not only giving thieves a bad name but showing the world what kind of person you are.

 

[Skwiz]

OR!! Just come to Siege Perilous and steal to your hearts content.. With the New disarming of Shields and Books (Lots of people run unblessed Shield of Invul / Scrappers on siege) You can once again be a disarm Thief.. and get some alright loots.

 

[Tovladian Soltyr]

I agree with Skwiz, Siege is a place where being a thief "Player" is still fully capable. So if you want to be a true thief player, Siege is the only place for you.

 

[Skwiz]

currently there are many thieves on siege perilous and they are loving it..

 

[Bomb Bloke]

The ONLY valid use of the Stealing skill in the Tram ruleset is for stealing from your guild mates and of stealing designated stealable artifacts and daily town spawns.

fixed...la

See, here's the difference between Jack and me. We both see that this is a "valid" way to play the game, but I don't steal from "mates". Nor will I tell my enemies I am their friend. Granted, this limits my effectiveness when it comes to pinching stuff, but those are the standards I follow and I'm happy to follow them.

What ShadowJack suggests is nothing new - People have been doing it for years. But understand that the repurcussions run deeper then someone losing a few bandies. When guys like Jack start taking powerscrolls and refuse to man up to their actions, alliances get ripped up, people get falsely accused. The problem isn't that someone is stealing, the problem is that someone who is trusted is abusing that trust.

"Trust" is not a game feature of UO. It is something that's directly between players. I respect that people should have the ability to break trust - but I don't respect people who do so.

If too many people start to break trust in this particular manner, then guild stealing will eventually be removed from the game. It's as simple as that. Try and keep this stealing knowledge away from those who aren't at least bright enough to work it out for themselves; hopefully they'll also be smart enough to work out the full effects of their actions. That's all I can say.

Not at all, stealing from a guildmate is very risky. You are freely attackable while still in the guild, by any and all guild members.

Now you're just being facetious. If you go to a trammel based zone and steal from a guild member, sure, they can kill you.

But fame, half a minute to get ressed and perhaps insurance gold isn't "risk" when you consider what you have to gain.

Yes, the thieves have been nerfed from what they once were. And thanks to threads like this they'll likely get nerfed further.

 

[Coppelia]

Rico, lying to players is not the same as using the skills of your character to get stuff. Using skill is just that: playing the game. Lying to players only implies your lack of honesty as a player, it's not part of the game.
There are games were scam is acceptable and part of the game. Not UO. And as you're not playing with the same rules than the people you scam, they're bound to get angry at you.
Otherwise why the default party is now set to "other players can't loot me"? Devs are not accepting it as part of the game, obviously.

 

[ShadowJack]

Ok I very rarely stop by UHaul for the simple fact it seems to be filled with ego inflated infants. However I simply feel the need to give my input here since in general the only thing I play in almost every game out there, weather it be an online MMO, Single player console RPG, or a table top game (D&D and others) I play 1 of 2 characters the most.

1. Rogue/Thief class

or

2. Hunter/Ranger class

Now the reason I'm going to give my input here is cause it is fairly obvious that this thread is on the brink of not knowing the difference between game and real life. There is a fine line between "Playing" a thief and "Being" a thief.

Playing a thief involves roleplaying, you know what roleplaying is right....pretending. Or what my mother use to call "Playing make bebelieve". The things that you state in your post in the thief forum isn't really "Playing" a thief to be honest. Since your using the mechanics orginally ment for FEL in trammel and stealing from people AFK and what not that is not playing a thief. You see a true thief player knows there is risk involved in their profession, it the thrill of the chase when you get caught, being able to brag about how you got away. That's why stealing still works on ANYONE in FEL not just guild mates. When you join a tram guild with the whole perpose being that you're going to steal from them, that's not "Playing" a thief that in general is "Being" a dishonest person.

The "Play Style" you are refering to is not the "Play Style" of the thief, and I would appreciate you not giving TRUE thief roleplayers a bad name. The "Play Style" you are discribing is the "Play Style" of a Griefer, nothing more. The fact that you do what you do in a facet it wasn't intended for is an exploit and I hope when you do get caught you get paged on faster then someone spamming insta-ban words at the bank.

In your thread I saw you mention something about "It's just a Pixel", well next time you say that to yourself sit back and reflect for a moment. Is it "Just a Pixel" to the person that spent hours upon hours collecting and saving up gold to get it, or perhaps spent hours or even days in Doom killing to get that 1 arty they were after. Is it just a pixel to them? Or is it a representation of their hard work? Or what if that one item you stole was something of sentamental value given to them by a friend that has quit the game or maybe even worse passed away? Is it "Just a Pixel" to that person? Maybe it was the VERY first item they got as part of an in game event, that gives them those warm and fuzzy feelings inside....is it "Just A Pixel" to them?

Remember how I said there's a difference between "Playing" a thief and "Being" one. Well you seem like you "Are" a thief, not "Playing" a thief, just from your moral outlook on this whole thing. The mentality you show here can only lead me to assume that you are the type of person that would steal in real life not only in game. I find that disheartening to say the least, that your enjoyment of the game is to cause others dismay and misery.

Congradulations on not only giving thieves a bad name but showing the world what kind of person you are.

I was a religon major in school, I don't steal in real life, I don't even use curse words. (in real life, unless I stub my toe)


I do however keep a solid head about a video game that isn't real, and the concept of owning something that you don't really own (according to the TOS)





The main goal isn't to teach people to grief, it's really to show that the thief can be a force in trammel through game mechanics, and in fel can't do much of anything.



It's more of an opposite argument, I want to play in fel, not tram, but TRAM is where I can play my thief more effectivly.



Have a sense of humor, it's just a game. Thief proofing yourself is easy. Stop whining for people to police and coddle you every turn.




Jussssttt a gammeeeeee lighten up, people who are actually good at video games learn to win, they don't write the devs and try to get things changed so nothing can hurt them.


And playing a thief as my main, I find it funny that people get so uppity because he actually learns to steal around the insurance in fel.



lol

 

[Wenchkin]

Otherwise known as exploiting game mechanics which I hope will get you banned eventually.

Before you bite me, I don't steal in Tram and don't think it's worthwhile or honourable.

When guilds are in a RP war or warred to each other and fighting in Tram, that allows for PvP and stealing to go on. It's been used in numerous RP storylines over the years and is not illegal if done between warring guilds. Also, there are guilds who have players with the stealing skill for dojo/doom stealing. It would be crazy to ban those players because they trained on one another.

It is quite simple to protect yourself and your guild. Recruit players you know, if you don't know them, setup a guildstone purely for evaluating players. Check their My UO page for the stealing skill and ensure they don't have access to secures. Advise guild mates that a new member is around and to avoid carrying uninsured valuables - something you shouldn't do anywhere even if it's "safe" in Tram. Then you have nothing they can steal or get by killing you and you're perfectly safe in said guild.

If we start taking a stance where it's illegal to steal in a guild war or for training, you're really screwing some RP guilds up. Much as I'd like to see them back in Fel, I don't see why they should have more penalties for living in Tram. Bad enough you can't res an enemy guild after battles, something my guilds have always done in Fel.

Stealing in Tram is against the rules. What you do isn't stealing, it's playing a Con Artist, which is also against the rules in the right circumstances.

Besides that, if you suck so bad at playing a Thief in Fel that you have to exploit in Tram to get your jollies, that doesn't say a hell of a lot about your so called Thieving abilities.

The ONLY valid use of the Stealing skill in the Tram ruleset is for the purpose of stealing designated stealable artifacts and daily town spawns.

THAT'S IT.

See the above. It is NOT an exploit. If you're so paranoid about thieves then stay out of guilds altogether, but don't start trying to ruin RP options for other players because you can't find a guild that is managed properly.

Wenchy

 

[Tovladian Soltyr]

Jussssttt a gammeeeeee lighten up

*nods* I will agree that it's just a game, but you know those people staring at the monitor? those are real people with real feelings, why should they take extra precautions in a place they were told was safe. Because of Con-artist like you this game has gone down hill. The 3 number one causes to a games death....

1. Dupers

2. Exploiters/hackers

3. Con-artist/Scammers

what you describe openly to people is a Con-artist act. You seem like the type of person that would open a young account just to get free stuff from the nice people willing to help as well, is that "Playing a Thief" as well? For someone being a religion major your morals seem to be lacking.

See the difference between do what you are doing in a trammel setting and then doing it someplace like Siege is that if you do get caught you can just de-guild and they can't do anything to you. Where's the true risk in that? there is none plain and simple you lost this argument before it even started there skippy.

Is it right for you to ask someone to be your friend then when they aren't looking or running to the kitchen to get you a drink, to take a $20 out of their wallet they were stupid enough to trust you and leave it on the coffee table?

Cause think about it in a real life standpoint for a moment, yes it is "Just a Game" but what you are doing is going to someone asking for their hand in friendship then with your other hand sticking it in their pocket to get their valuables.

*EDIT: You can keep spouting off the same things over and over again of "It's just a game" and "It's just a pixel" and I will be able to give fresh examples of what you are doing is wrong no question about it. Face it, your not the decent person your write yourself off to be...point blank.....

 

[phantus]

Jussssttt a gammeeeeee lighten up, people who are actually good at video games learn to win, they don't write the devs and try to get things changed so nothing can hurt them.
lol

You are just hiding behind everything you said. You spread your demeanor as something you wish to project but, you Sir, are a despicable thief incapable of understanding your own dark nature. Refusing to accept the fact that you are lying to a real human being in the hopes of exploiting that person's trust is proof of it.

I do thank you for this thread however. Once again you have managed to solidify the notion that thieves should be allowed nowhere short of the "true thieves" forum.

 

[ShadowJack]

lol


uhm thief code #9


uhm thief code #9


annnnndddddd uhmmmm thief code #9



Lol, thie thief class is nicer to people than the murderer class woofies

 

[drinkbeerallday]

Otherwise known as exploiting game mechanics which I hope will get you banned eventually.

Stealing in Tram is against the rules. What you do isn't stealing, it's playing a Con Artist, which is also against the rules in the right circumstances.


Besides that, if you suck so bad at playing a Thief in Fel that you have to exploit in Tram to get your jollies, that doesn't say a hell of a lot about your so called Thieving abilities.




The ONLY valid use of the Stealing skill in the Tram ruleset is for the purpose of stealing designated stealable artifacts and daily town spawns.

THAT'S IT.

scamming is legal and valid.

 

[Tovladian Soltyr]

scamming is legal and valid.

Scamming is a form of griefing

Griefing is a form of Harassment

Harassing another player is against the ToS

there for Illegal, congratulations drinkbeerallday, once again you've proven your knowledge to be lacking.

 

[Kaleb]

Scamming is a form of griefing

Griefing is a form of Harassment

Harassing another player is against the ToS

there for Illegal, congratulations drinkbeerallday, once again you've proven your knowledge to be lacking.

Thank you for showing us your knowlage is lacking. Scamming is in fact legal.

 

[ShadowJack]

And the idea of a "moral" thief is kinda silly in the black and white of it. You either steal or you don't.



The trammel way seems to me as a cheap way to play........sooooo pointing it out



people already know all that stuff (most of them) but for the ones who don't then now they do


now you'll have to learn to use detect hidden in the houses, use tracking when redeeding houses. Look at what you are buying from vendors, and learn to watch who you let in your guilds


I haven't pointed out how to do anything that can't be prevented with simple steps.


So yeah it's a game, but I'm not telling people how to cheat.


You should focus your distaste for people using rails and scripts, who take advantage of the safety of trammel to overinflate the economy so they can sell gold and items online for real money and who use 3rd party programs to run faster and to pvp



*kicks over mike and does a power rock squat*

 

[UOKaiser]

lol


uhm thief code #9


uhm thief code #9


annnnndddddd uhmmmm thief code #9



Lol, thie thief class is nicer to people than the murderer class woofies

The murderer class are stuck in fel and if they do join a Tram guild just for the purpose of murder then the most a player would lose is some insurance and whatever there carrying on them. Though a thief would try to rob everything they built up for however long they played this game . They will house hide, kill guildmembers when there most vulnarble and on non pvp characters,when transfering items and only the guild knows. Deceiving, removing all trust of fellow players,lying there guts of.

One thing to do this in fel or siege where players are much more careful and concent to such things another thing to do it in tram "note house hiding is usualy done whiout even being in the same guild as the target". Infiltrating a peaceful guild and scamming them nah one of the many reasons thieves where nerfed almost to non existance. Remmember the very old saying " No Honor Among Thieves"

 

[ShadowJack]

I never kill guildmates, and to do so is bad form on a thief.

 

[UOKaiser]

And the idea of a "moral" thief is kinda silly in the black and white of it. You either steal or you don't.



The trammel way seems to me as a cheap way to play........sooooo pointing it out



people already know all that stuff (most of them) but for the ones who don't then now they do


now you'll have to learn to use detect hidden in the houses, use tracking when redeeding houses. Look at what you are buying from vendors, and learn to watch who you let in your guilds


I haven't pointed out how to do anything that can't be prevented with simple steps.


So yeah it's a game, but I'm not telling people how to cheat.


You should focus your distaste for people using rails and scripts, who take advantage of the safety of trammel to overinflate the economy so they can sell gold and items online for real money and who use 3rd party programs to run faster and to pvp



*kicks over mike and does a power rock squat*

The redeeding houses is no longer a problem thieves and other players cant place on the location of a resized house only the one who resize it.
The detect hidden works just before but a house hider will wait out outside while detect hidden is being used and when the unsuspecting player starts doing his or hers mives the house hider will stealth in. For every step there is to prevent theres another step to counter it. I suspect most tram players will go back to keeping there houses private or doors locked no more looking at players house designs.
The scripters dont effect the economy as much they really only effect themselves more. And the money selling online from gold which would need what 1000 people scripting 24/7 gold to get as much as mcdonalds pay in a week nah not too worry about that.The dupers they are the ones that messes the economy to no ends hard to recover from that. But the thieves in this trammel situation can ruin a single player completely. Either they quit, They stop trusting others in game and become a solo player, Or place them in Extremly hard times.
Am all for thieving in fel and siege, hell most of fel houses are private anyway. Everyone takes the risk over there thats what is there for the no mans land.

 

[UOKaiser]

I never kill guildmates, and to do so is bad form on a thief.

The infiltrated guildmate as its a very common thief tactic to join tram guild. Now usually its stealing secures or house hiding but certain thieves will go on to guildmate if the guildmate is on a beetle or having packies moving items to vender. Of course they cant loot the animal but will stealth and wait till the guildmember grabs it from there decaying animal which was killed by using a disguise kit so they cant get kicked out of the guild in time. after moving the items they will try to steal from the player again. Now this type of thing is horrible and must border on first scamming and then grifting because most often the items will decay with the animal leaving neither the thief or the player with them. Just imaging if that packie was carrying a true rare or server birth item depriving the whole shard of there history.Not saying you use this type of way to steal but doesnt stop other thieves from using it.

 

[Tovladian Soltyr]

And the idea of a "moral" thief is kinda silly in the black and white of it. You either steal or you don't.



The trammel way seems to me as a cheap way to play........sooooo pointing it out



people already know all that stuff (most of them) but for the ones who don't then now they do


now you'll have to learn to use detect hidden in the houses, use tracking when redeeding houses. Look at what you are buying from vendors, and learn to watch who you let in your guilds


I haven't pointed out how to do anything that can't be prevented with simple steps.


So yeah it's a game, but I'm not telling people how to cheat.


You should focus your distaste for people using rails and scripts, who take advantage of the safety of trammel to overinflate the economy so they can sell gold and items online for real money and who use 3rd party programs to run faster and to pvp



*kicks over mike and does a power rock squat*

I'm done with you, you obvious feel in your heart what you are doing is not wrong so there for you are a lost cause. No need talking and telling crap not to stink, cause it doesn't have the ears to listen.

You sir are a Real Life thief in gamers clothing, and probably the reason I don't let people into my guild and I do take all the measures that you are just now mentioning that I have always taken. It's really sad that you feel you're doing right by all this, basically you're the proverbial knife in the back of those who accepted you into their family thinking they could trust you. When it starts happening to you I hope you feel the same about it....


btw a "True" thief never gives away their secrets so you fail at your class.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

I'm done with you...

Yet you go on and on and on...lol...la

 

[Connor_Graham]

You are just hiding behind everything you said. You spread your demeanor as something you wish to project but, you Sir, are a despicable thief incapable of understanding your own dark nature. Refusing to accept the fact that you are lying to a real human being in the hopes of exploiting that person's trust is proof of it.

I do thank you for this thread however. Once again you have managed to solidify the notion that thieves should be allowed nowhere short of the "true thieves" forum.

QAFT

I felt this needed stating again as this pretty much spells it all out.

 

[ShadowJack]

I'm confused, I am a real thief or not?



I thought I was a thief in a video game?



wasn't it nice of me to point these things out so players can guard against them, or should I have just taught people to steal from you so you and others would have no idea?




And my guild isn't my family unless they make me sunday dinner




*powerslides*

 

[Beefybone]

I'm really enjoying watching Rico and Jack run around trying to tell everyone thieving and looting are awesome fun while everyone tells them to shut up.

 

[Kith Kanan]

Shadowjack I only have one thing to say to you before I put you on ignore

STOP CALLING YA SELF A THIEF YOUR A GRIEFER !!!!!!!

I doubt even Rico would sink as low as to steal from his guild mates..............

 

[ShadowJack]

I'm really enjoying watching Rico and Jack run around trying to tell everyone thieving and looting are awesome fun while everyone tells them to shut up.

it is fun



or it would be if you could do it in fel still


and I like how you single us out, when there are absolutly NO other people who think the same way


we must be revolutionary, so we should be listened to instead of the "everyone" else crowd




wolves eat sheep



maybe the sheep should get out of fel or grow some teeth

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

maybe the sheep should get out of fel or grow some teeth

Ironic given the title of your post.

-Galen's player

 

[ShadowJack]

yeah I was trying to point out we can still steal.


in a very crappy way



(on both sides of the fence)

 

[King Frankie]

*misses disarm stealing fanzy silver vanq weapons*

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Attack? ...
if you don't want thieves let into your PvM guild, talk with your guildmaster
...

I created my own guild and I am the only person in it.

I have two account with 6 characters each.

Let me assure you they steal from each when ever they darn well feel like it and they don't even bother trying to hide it.

I am powerless to stop this larceny.

 

[monnie101]

Dude that is a scumbag move to join guilds and steal from them after earning their trust. It's sad that you have to play like a paranoid schizo in this game and can't trust nobody. It's so unlike that in my other games. That's griefer play man, that's not a thief in Trammel. That's the kind of stuff that made me leave UO it's infested with socipathic style gamers who use the excuse that since it is a virtual item you steal in a game that it's okay. Thereby not making known the difference that we all know from a regular game and a MMORPG in a persistent virtual world. You come into my house as a friend and steal my basket ball or you come into my virtual house as a friend and steal my item i worked hard from via means of trusting in a guild, same thing to me. Whether its a physical object or not.

I'm not going to say anything else about and I'm not going to say what I really think. Except that I always felt bad for the victims of this activity that is so bad in UO that it became to be known as both a playing style and a type o f character build. Regardless of anything you know it makes people feel sad and hurt after you victimize them.

Jack, change your ways dude. You wouldn't do that in my neighborhood. Just like the people who sit at the banks swearing and saying racist things to random passer bys or bullying the newbies wouldn't do it in real life here. Praying and stalking people, maybe you should be a paparazzi (legal stalkers who hold cameras). As if you can't tell I really hate griefers with a passion.

Rico, I know your like the king of Thieves but always disagreed with you on this one. It's just not kool so I'll agree to disagree. How does a rebel like you become a mod?

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Rico, I know your like the king of Thieves but always disagreed with you on this one. It's just not kool so I'll agree to disagree.

Disagreement is fine. I'll have to dig up one of my old episodes where I joined a Trammy guild on Atlantic. It was rather fun. I may have to dust off my thief there and try out this old tactic again...la

 

[Korso]

You come into my house as a friend and steal my basket ball or you come into my virtual house as a friend and steal my item i worked hard from via means of trusting in a guild, same thing to me. Whether its a physical object or not.

If you consider someone stealing a real life item from you as the same as stealing a NOT REAL item from a game. I think its time for you to call it quites and stop playing video games.

It reminds of of the story I once heard about 7 or more years ago. I believe it was some guy who was playing everquest? He ended up loosing an item in game or something of that affect. (can't remember its been so long) But long story short, he killed himself. As bad as that was, most of the people who play UO today could be placed in that same boat with taking everything so seriously. Its kinda sad if you think about it.

 

[UltimaSword]

I must say. If a thief is stealing well... than he is being a thief. Watch who you let in your guilds or you will lose your stuff.