Idea for the thief

[ShadowJack]

Just bring the stealing skill to trammel. No change in ruleset, they can just steal whatever you don't have insured.

If they become too much of a problem, good thieves don't mind dying, and they are not equal to any kind of damage output char


If they became too much of a problem, then I'm sure it would revamp the detective and the forensic's skill.


And being attackable on site outside of the protected areas would keep the thieves in check. If your miner can kill them, then you shouldn't have trouble.


If he can't, then you'll have to learn to kill him or team up to do it. All community.


The items they steal are just pixles, and the important stuff that you have is insured. You can balance it, but changing the game later, to add things to and from the stealable list.


Instead of a new expansion and a flux of new npcs, then just add the thief class to trammel.



You guys will have fun killing and avoiding the thieves, you'll have fun making the thief to steal from people you don't know, people you like to mess with them, people you hate to cause them to die in fights (ie bandies..garlic..)



The revamp of the thief class would be an expansion to the game that would lead to positive gameplay outputs.



There would take some adjustment, and loss, but the community as a whole can suck it up and learn to deal with the threat



And if you don't think the thief belongs in trammel, then look at the game. Look at where the story line takes you of the flee to trammel, the escape of thieves and murders, but no one can stay safe forever. The thieves slip through eventually and cause chaos, does trammel fight back to keep the shard safe, or do they lose hope and virtue, becoming thieves themselves and abandoning the virtues. Through their own sins, does the first murder enter into trammel?







I say test the spirit of the community, fel and tram are the yin and the yang. The virtue and the anti.



Trammel being safe shouldn't be a ruleset thing, it should be part of the game.





I say bring the thief in as a anti char, and someone who can test the moral culture of the UO society.






and make it fun.





I wanna play a thief if I pay to play this game.







favorite class.





I wanna play a thief.




At gm the skill says you are a grandmaster pickpocket. That seems good enough, but at being a legendary, maybe you would be good enough to slip some boundries.




and the thief/mage, thief/warrior thief/stealther...whatever are always fun hybrids

 

[Lore Master]

no it would ruin things for the decent players in tram and make players want to quit leave those rules in fel and seige only.

 

[Starla]

Currently players' vendors are selling un-insured items, I do not think they will endorse your plan.

There are many proposals in the past to revive the thieving profession but sadly nothing has been done.

 

[Faeryl]

Although that sounds... interesting... there is one major reason I don't play a thief.

I like stealth, I use it a lot, it's fun, and I just like being stealthy Basically, the thief/stealther hybrid is useless to me since you can't steal while hidden. You instantly get revealed when you use the stealing skill. Does that not defeat the whole purpose of being stealthy?

But anyways, it does sound like an interesting idea...

 

[Lore Master]

i just want to add i don't want to worry in tram or malas or tokuna or ish about the items in my back pack possibly being stolen from some thief in stealth or not in stealth that is what fel is for.

 

[MalagAste]

Would never fly and I'd never endorse it even though I do have a couple of crafty theives..... just NOT a good idea..... I could see it now theives all over every vendor house waiting for someone to purchase something just so they could steal it at that very instant.... NOPE BAD IDEA....

 

[Black Sun]

I for one would love to see the Thief class revived. I have always enjoyed playing a Thief, I started making another when I returned to UO last year, but somewhere along the way he turned into a stealth fencer.

While the OP has an interesting proposal, I don't think it would work out in the long run. As sad as that makes me.

 

[Starla]

The quick reveal part actually adds to the fun and skill of stealing from other players. You can plan your getaway in so many ways. It's really quite exciting.

 

[Nexus]

Changing Fel to a quasi Siege type area with no insurance and only 1 blessed item would work just as well....


On this....

Although that sounds... interesting... there is one major reason I don't play a thief.

I like stealth, I use it a lot, it's fun, and I just like being stealthy Basically, the thief/stealther hybrid is useless to me since you can't steal while hidden. You instantly get revealed when you use the stealing skill. Does that not defeat the whole purpose of being stealthy?

But anyways, it does sound like an interesting idea...

I play a Thief, I enjoy playing a Thief, the instant reveal thing is fine it gives whom ever a chance to actually reclaim their lost goods. Now Passive Reveal is a bigger issue imho as it's too effective, but the best defense to put in to overcome the reveal action of stealing is to put Ninjitsu on your character. It won't stop you from being revealed but....You can set a hotkey for Animal Form and switch to either Llama/Ostard form or one of the more difficult to run at mounted speed, this gives you a better chance at getting away after the steal.

 

[ShadowJack]

Instead of fighting, it's time for a merger. Figure out a way to do it. It's a class in the game, and you need to learn to overcome it, not put it on the backburner.



Suck it up. Play the game to win. Make the negatives an enemy element. If you want to stay safe from it, team up to fight it, overcome. Skills, game mechanics, blah blah, make it the bad guy and beat it. I even think it'd be fair looking at that get rid of tram poll to think it'd be fair for trammel to attack fel, and take it over.

But whereever there is danger, ie dungeons, events, expansions, wild lands there should be thieves and murder's in the shadow, waiting



It would bring out the dark side of every player, and the good side. Good is winning, bring back the evil. For fun and for the game.


Balance.



If there are things that shouldn't be stolen, then they could change with time as we figure it out. Balance could be adjusted easily. if something that was stolen was something that shouldn't be, then it could change. Adapt the game to fit in fel rulesets to where you can go to both, and the only reason to move between was the original reason, which was housing.


Meet in the middle, and bring the game forward. Fel is there because people like it, Tram is there because people like it. Let's figure out how to make it meet in the middle. But without losing sight of in the game you need danger and something to throw you out of safety to make it fun, or it stales. It's time to make this game rock your faces.



Bring both under a ruleset that incorperates both. There are enough towns on either shard to provide factions a control fight. Crafters can support factions by keeping banks/towns safe from invading towns



Use the map, not the storyline, the items, or the monsters. Use the game playing the skills listed, the limits provided, and the fun had.



It's time fel learned to be civilized, and tram had some danger. Let's do it. All you goodie goodie people, I love you guys too, you are the good guys, the heros and the people who work hard to make things right. But you've beaten UO 10 times over. It's time to give the bad guys a win.


You'll have fun in the long run. Trust me, I remembered going from a newb, to a decent player, to being good at my favorite skill. I still did crafting, and after thieving a crafting mule and a bard are always my second chars.


I always have a mage and a dexy too. I can't always fit what I want, because I want to do everything.



I like UO but I want to play the other side of it too.




A lot of people do, and a lot of people would de-evolve to have fun with it. You create a perfect society, then only snobs and bores will remain.




This game has turned into FEL and TRAM. It should be UO.



Shake each other up, and learn what it is to be mean or nice. Don't be offended all of the time, and play the game. If the game was fun, the forums would be empty.


Get over the past, now is now, and tomorrow is tomorrow. If you don't like thieves and murderer's, then you aren't a real UO player. You are a fake. A nightmare sitting, glacial staff having, red name in trammel having fake.





Match up both facets and make everyone fight for the expansions or something. But something. There should be no division of cultures. Eventually everything balances, and tram has won since the day it put down it's foot. The message boards prove that.

 

[Viper09]

I am up for ANYTHING that will actually make the thief a useful class. Stealing artifacts on ground just doesn't work. Give thieves SOMETHING. Insurance nearly murdered thieves. I could care less what thief haters have to say, but at the same time I can really see people in tram having problems with the thieves camping outside the major vendor areas.

But hey, could easily make vendor objects have a time-period where they are "blessed" or something so they could not be stolen. But Something tells me thieves will never be allowed their freedom in any place other than fel. Not that they have any freedom as it is

What makes it even more sad, is they never even touched the thief class for SA as far as we know.

 

[ShadowJack]

If you think I'm wrong look at the game balance. If that many people are in support of trammel. Then it's time to revamp fel. While doing so, revamp them both, and bring all aspects into it. If everyone is in trammel, then bring them to fel. Make the bad things and the good things on both sides.


with the balance issue, then leaving blues safe in town limits, and limiting the non consensual pvp to outside of guard zones (with places you can fight to make either or) Then there is no reason for this game to be so divided. Crafters and people who hate fel. You are safe in towns, that is what they are for. You have established a base and you control it. The places where danger are, danger is. If you have a vendor, then if you have a good shop. people should band together to protect it, or you should be clever enough to have a place that is like luna.



Make a luna shop the ultimate goal.




Stop making UO item based.


Who cares about what you own. With insurance, you can bascially make almost everything safe, with trammel you can make absoulty safe. That's not balance.




This game is far from being "hot" if the trammel side is winning, then the fel type should win.



or the game will drive them away.




You guys have won





Balance out. The game has been beaten over and over. Hit reset. For anyone who is a true vet to this game as it is now, we don't pay to play it, we pay to hold on.

 

[ShadowJack]

and now that I think about it, the crafters and the npc fighters have won, it's time to shake it up. It might peak the game again and the people who are the new vets will have something to remember instead of watching this game turn to dust like people who have played it 10 years have.


If you have stuff and you are that upset about it, then you are too safe. This game shouldn't be about what you own, or how much money you have, it's about playing it.



If all you safe people couldn't go out of town limits, you'd be at banks. When the bank got full, you'd go to another one. If thieves got bad, you'd go to another one.



You'd adapt, and change. Not turn the game so lopsided.



Balance is what I believe in, and there is none. If you don't believe me look at the game.


but the game should teach you loss too. knowing that every second isn't safe every item isn't safe, every gold coin isn't safe. Then you would start playing a more interactive game, that was fun for everyone.





in an mmorpg there is no tram or fel, there is only good and bad, and the coin should be flipped 50/50 to keep it stable.



When it skews it's time to slowly go the other way. You guys would have trammel again, after you earned it back.





Time for the bad guys to win.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

I am up for ANYTHING that will actually make the thief a useful class. Stealing artifacts on ground just doesn't work. Give thieves SOMETHING. Insurance nearly murdered thieves. I could care less what thief haters have to say, but at the same time I can really see people in tram having problems with the thieves camping outside the major vendor areas.

But hey, could easily make vendor objects have a time-period where they are "blessed" or something so they could not be stolen. But Something tells me thieves will never be allowed their freedom in any place other than fel. Not that they have any freedom as it is

What makes it even more sad, is they never even touched the thief class for SA as far as we know.

Insurance murdered thieves because at the time they only stole for the pleasure of griefing another player. The nostalgic old thief that everybody whines/pines for was nothing more then a 100% griefer.

To this day thieves can steal to their hearts content at CHAMP spawns yet 99% choose not to because that involves patience and risk and playing the template as it is supposed to be played. None of them ever wanted to do that. They all just wanted to be able to run up to someone, click 2 simple macro keys, and run away laughing.

Once the Devs realized that there was absolutely no risk and all reward for the thief with absolutely 0 skill they rightly nerfed it. When you added the fact that 99% of all thieves were just doing it to grief it was a no brainer.

 

[Demon Killer]

and now that I think about it, the crafters and the npc fighters have won, it's time to shake it up. It might peak the game again and the people who are the new vets will have something to remember instead of watching this game turn to dust like people who have played it 10 years have.


If you have stuff and you are that upset about it, then you are too safe. This game shouldn't be about what you own, or how much money you have, it's about playing it.



If all you safe people couldn't go out of town limits, you'd be at banks. When the bank got full, you'd go to another one. If thieves got bad, you'd go to another one.



You'd adapt, and change. Not turn the game so lopsided.



Balance is what I believe in, and there is none. If you don't believe me look at the game.


but the game should teach you loss too. knowing that every second isn't safe every item isn't safe, every gold coin isn't safe. Then you would start playing a more interactive game, that was fun for everyone.





in an mmorpg there is no tram or fel, there is only good and bad, and the coin should be flipped 50/50 to keep it stable.



When it skews it's time to slowly go the other way. You guys would have trammel again, after you earned it back.





Time for the bad guys to win.

i have two words for you (Play Seige) if thiefs could steal from other players in tram i would quit and so would many other players.

 

[Nexus]

How bout this Do a Quasi Siege rule set for Felucca. Insurance doesn't work, Blessings on anything except normal clothing doesn't work, but you get to Bless 1 item. Anything bought off a vendor is Newbied for 5 minutes. It can't be stolen, or looted this gives time for a person to recall away from where they bought it and stow/equip the item.

 

[ShadowJack]

I'm fighting for the thief to help the game, not to grief or to play siege. The negative element in a game is important.


Like life


You grow from it, you adapt, you become better. If you overcome it, then end of story no more challenge, no more gain.



To put importance on what you own in this game, and how much you own, is to skew the balance.



The point is playing an interaction, not safety, or owning. The goal is to meet people and make the game the way you want it, in game. If you were having fun, you wouldn't be talking on a board about you watching an in attended macro for 3 months. You wouldn't be fussing because you had so much money you'd need new items, or so less action you needed new expansions. This game is full of unused places, and skills, and unused people who aren't playing it or paying for it.



No other game will let you steal the way UO used to. Or kill other people. Blend both shards, and work towards a more fel ruleset for balance, when that becomes too much, then work it the other way. Change the moral and the objective dynamics.



The people who will suffer most are vets, not the new players. The new players who stay and hold on and fight and have fun will learn to be evil, or to fight the evil. the old players will overcome it, adapt (become) or die.



You should be so safe. This game isn't about what you have or what you've done, or who you know, or what your skill level is.




Or it shouldn't be.


This game is about relationships, stop fighting so hard to resist a change that is the same that you once put on a higher % crowd. Whenever either one starts to win, people start losing interest.



That's the balance issue that everyone needs, but doesn't know, or want to overcome.


why you would want to fight a dragon in a dungeon vs a real life person I will never know. People are the ultimate monster. And in groups is how we dominate. Once dominated, a society tends towards the other direction for balance and growth. By limiting the thief and that side of the game, you're only hurting the game and future players, who will never have a luna house or skills like you, or time spent like you. Or anything like you, it's about having a real life type, never saved, never beat game. It's been beaten, and if you dont' believe it, you're a day late.

 

[Maplestone]

You guys will have fun killing and avoiding the thieves

No. No. No.

I think what we have here is someone who seriously does not understand the concept of why Tram exists. Killing and avoiding people IS NOT FUN to people who play in Tram. End of story.

 

[phantus]

Hahaha

Funny.....totally worthless, but funny.

Ya know, I don't even think you believe this tripe.

You should go back to advocating for removal of insurance in fel. That's the only "bring back the thief class" idea that has any merit whatsoever.

 

[Richtor Darkbane]

No, we have plenty of grief players in tram as is without worrying about our items being stolen.


Thanks but no thanks.

 

[ShadowJack]

then you are too safe and need challenge. Instead of fighting a monster, make the thief class an enemy. Not everything you own has to be stolen. Make a murderer your enemy. Don't push them to where you are completely safe from them.


The safe players have won. The numbers show that, and the game isn't the #1 game, so you are losing.




The minority that is fel is what is needed to bring the majority of trammel to its senses. The criminal element in online gaming.


I'm not talking about credit fraud or hacking, or people running script to get rich. You have all of those troubles to this day.



I'm talking about you not being so safe. Take the hit, and put it in player chars hands. Make us the next enemy instead of a simple little blip. People will suprise you.




There are ***** that always abuse that type of style, but that's why rules have to be adjusted, and it has to be felt out.


But they still belong. If the only thing you could fight in trammel would be another player, over a blip, then that player should win out. The map is huge, and there are plenty of people to kill and isolate that player. If you are a victim, get revenge. Or adapt. Or die. If you always die. I'm sorry. Not everyone can be the best at a game.



Trammel has killed the thief class and pvp and the murderer. Put it back in trammel, and make fel like trammel to even it out.



even the playing field. Even if you limit it to dungeons only. But somewhere there has to be bad stuff to happen to you. You'll live it's a game.



It shouldn't have forum guides to quick level, or people paging gms to fuss about language *grow up and ignore it or use the ignore feature* A gm should only be called for an in game emergency like items not going into your bank, or very important things.



trammel won, fel is dead, period. Balance it. Tram has had time to build a nice nest egg, let fel come to redistribute the wealth.



People didn't used to have 20 million in gold. Or could just macro unattended whenever they wanted. If someone was doing that they would be killed.



This is something the game needs to balance and to correct itself.


You need to lose some riches and comfort, and the bad guys need a turn to win.





No vote, put the cities to the torches, and let the blood flow. You'll still have houses with goodies stashed away and banks where your taxes pay for guards



Like I said. the ultimate enemy in UO should be another player. The game should be around opposing forces, with everything else in the center.

Balance out and take a hit.

 

[kelmo]

See this thread: http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=100933

*walks away*

 

[ShadowJack]

so what. If the future of the criminal element is seige, then you might as well get rid of fel now, send everyone with that style of play to seige to unbalance the game more, then collapse the asian and the less populated shards to increase player interaction. Leave that style of gameplay to seige (and it will take getting rid of it from every shard to fill siege) and finally call the boundries in the game. If you are the vote, then win. Stop that style of play on the regular shards, and stop harboring false hope for vets 11+'s plus who are just waiting for it to balance out like it usually does, and bring our class back. If it's not. Then screw it.


If seige doesn't fill up then screw it. But no other game offers the negative gamer that experience. And EA, players, and YOU as a safe wussy wussy wussy fake uo player can grow to be. You will never know the real game, you are playing a shadow of a shadow.




Hopefully SP would fill up to where it overran into the few safe shards left.



I was there when trammel was introduced. I put down the very second you were allowed to. Trammel was a solution for the people who wanted to avoid fel. But more than anything it was just a place to put a house. I put down a small tower just so it would be worth more than my fire island fel house that I was fine with.


It was right outside of britian, and I put it there so people would be around, it was a hot spot. Fighting and selling, crafting (thx to the brit forge and little hill, and the cemetary) and the town and close guard limits.

There was pvp thx to the houses outside of the cemetary, and the people who came to fight the guilds that set up there.

and that was just when trammel came out.


there have been hundreds of hotspots.




I've played this game. I'm fighting for the thief class that's been nerfed all to hell. Who has a thief anymore? If it's not equal to the warriors or the mages, or the tinkers, or the bards, then the balance is off.



And a UO thief steals from other players.




And in the long run, when they band together as thieves, or people who kill them (detectives as a class, people who hate theives as a rule) or the people who tolerate them. It's a part of the game that was screwed over with AOS.


If you haven't played since AOS then you have no valid opinion, because you have no experience to argue.



If you haven't played a thief and loved it, or been the best and loved it, then you have no room for argument.



You are missing out on a part of the game. Same with the murderers and whatnot people who are "bad" and threaten your "haven"



Grow up newbies. Learn to fight in the real world and learn not to horde. You can kill the char, become the char, or learn to play around it, but you've killed them. They are a twitching body on the ground spewing blood. It's either time for you to have mercy and save it and bring it back into play balanced, or it's time to kill it.



But if you kill off the murders and thieves, or just leave them in fel to rot, they're still gone.




They need to be an active part of this game as you do. As part of the challenge system, and to revamp exisiting maps and skills that have no uses. Give them towns, introduce them through bucs den and let them spread out. You don't have to saturate the shard with them. Start them with legendary thieves who solve a hard quest and a hard puzzle, worked hard skills, got rare powerscrolls, pvp'd, pvm'd crafted, and bought and fought there way to make it to trammel. The requirements to steal and murder should be and end game rare, something you only get when you beat the game and it's time for you to be elite. Then you don't have to do it. But if you do chose to, you will have to be good, because there are so many blues after your ass, that you're always limited. KOS and etc.. Make a thief use changes of clothing and the disguise kit (which used to be the case) if you use forensics and get a gain, then you know they are a thief. If they hide and stealth, detect hidden can find them, or reveal them if they stealth close. If you are in a guardzone and know how to play they can't touch you. If you are outside and you are smart or can fight, they can't hurt you, or take anything that is game hinging anyways. They are just there to give you a bad day.



But make it rare, make it hard, and make it a privledge. Don't kill them to seige, don't take it from the game, and let's start using areas that this game has left dead, skills (detect, hiding, tracking, remove trap, stealing, herding, etc..) sink a few islands, allow stealing, turn off guards every now and then. Humble the mighty, balance the game and make it more fun.



The criminal element could work. I don't have the answers to the exact how, I'm just saying, bring it back and make it work. You all have so many opinions, turn it that ways. Use the positives... think if I wanted to be a thief or a killer, or this or that, how would I do it, how would I have fun with it, how could I be around other players and make friends and enemys doing it.



The thief before the murderer. At least it is a skill in the game, and was meant to steal your items. It's an economy sink better than trade ins, or anything, and face it, trammel is rich. UO today is what Rome 2000 years ago is to africa today.


You need to be sacked and looted. It sucks for everyone, but it's balance. Instead of nerfing the game or putting in price sinks or new dungeons or blah blah, put it in the players hands and let us be the enemy. Let the bad players be who you fight against every day, who you sell your weapons to fight or to be, or to make money. Who you use an extra char to fight.


I don't want to win all of the time, I just want to play.




SP is not playing, FEL is not playing. I've played before both. If you weren't good and weren't playing the thief class before then, then don't pretend to understand.

 

[ShadowJack]

When I first started playing, my girlfriend and future ex wife (don't blame the uo lol) bought it for me. It was nov 97 and I chose a thief. Not to steal, but to see what it could do. 11 years later I'm here at it's dying body. It's dead body. My favorite class. The class that once was the most popular forum on stratics. The class that was so fun that it had to be nerfed dead because so many people were interrupting gameplay with it.


It's not about fel or killing.


It's not about what you earn or what you have.



You have to lose something



The thief belongs in the game. Unnerf it. It's not about the gold and glory. In the heyday of the thief I was selling 1mil items for 200k just to get rid of it because of storage and to go back to playing.



Yeah people ruined it, but there were a few good of us. Ask Crazy Joe. Ask Galad, Gwen, Graphix, Dex, Darkblade/rabidChicken. paperkutz, lut, belan. Ask any of the people you may remember from back then because they were known. Ask the players like me who played the same style of play but were unknown.


The thief isn't meant to grief you, the murder isn't there to keep you from playing the game. It's there to be a part of it.




If the classes weren't nerfed, then people would be doing it, and people would be arguing for it. If it was fun there would be people here to defend it. it's not fun, it's not balanced, and it's time it was fixed.



I wish I could take you to the year before trammel and the year after, the golden day of the thief really. I wish you could run a disarm thief against a dexer trying to kill you, or steal a mages regs so they can't heal or paralyze. Running to get away from 20 people because you stole something and you're trying to save your ass.




the bad guys always make friends with the bad guys, then they ally with good guys they like. it's not a full time job, and is actually a good way to get revenge from people you hate.



You don't like scripters or jerks at spawns, or people who mess up your way of playing, log in the thief or the pk to make them step up the game. Claim the spot.

The fact is, before stealing was nerfed, it was a MAJOR part of UO.




Fix it.



please.




don't kill it or hide from it, don't abandon it dead to a nerf, or push it to a dead shard.

fix the skill, balance it, then use it and fight against it or ignore it. it's up to you to use the game. You only lose out when you don't balance the way other people play with the way you do. If you can't then you don't need to play a mmorpg.


when you have won your way over and the game is in your favor and not booming, then add incentives to the other side, the part of the game that is dying or is the underdog.



It may never be the best char, the strongest, the fastest, the handiest. But playing a thief is and should be the most exciting, because we steal from you. Not a stupid blip a dev made up to fight, but another person. And if we could steal in trammel, you would notice us, you would hate thieves, you would be thieves, and you would kill and die to them.



But it would be exciting and fun. And it would bring my favorite thing about any game I've ever played, something 11 years in the playing a decade and a year, that has never been reintroduced the same way, with the same results, in any other game I've ever seen.



We were such badguys that I root for the reds, and I never was a pk. I just liked killing people who came after me or who pissed me off.


fix the thief

 

[Viper09]

I'm all up for something to help thieves on the non-siege shards. But can you please compress your writing. Tis making ye posts a lot bigger than needed.

 

[ShadowJack]

hehe, I'm not a speaker, I'm just trying to prove my point. I tend to ramble, but I'm hoping people who get what I'm saying will understand and make it a workable idea. It's why I'm writing it here, and not calling or writing EA staff.





It's a fun part of the game, it's up to us to make it work without it being overbalanced.

 

[kelmo]

hehe, I'm not a speaker, I'm just trying to prove my point. I tend to ramble, but I'm hoping people who get what I'm saying will understand and make it a workable idea. It's why I'm writing it here, and not calling or writing EA staff.





It's a fun part of the game, it's up to us to make it work without it being overbalanced.

Sorry... only one place left for thieves. Just ask.

 

[ShadowJack]

then it's a neglected skill, and you are only putting a limit on yourselves and the game.




Taking challenge and risk away from the game


taking gold sinks and item sinks/redistibution from the player skillset and just rearranging it to a civilized system.






you can do all of that without the thief, but why? You have to admit trammel is out of balance with cheaters, rich folks, and folks who have no risk and all of the forums to easy shortcut them to final goals. UOA and f2 jammed. Context menus and whatnot.



There is only one place for the thief. IN UO.

If it comes to be too much, then stamp out every thief you see on site, travel in groups. Whatever. It's a plus in every way except for comfort and the game has that in spades now.


It's a grief class sure, but it's one that can be used for the benifit of a game that needs a challenge, and one that has so many riches. If there's no danger of losing it, then there is no real value anyhow. All of your pretty pictures that you are so afraid to lose.


this was a huge part of the game that had to be nerfed, but just because you forgot how to play it doesn't mean it doesn't belong in some form. Player vs player fighting and stealing are just as equal to the rest of the gameplays and should be treated as equal for balance issues and to open new fields of playing for old and new players.

This tram/fel/sp thing isn't working and if you've played this game long enough, you can see that no matter what the ruleset is or what people want at the time, it has to change eventually or it gets stale. AOS came out a long time ago, thieves that are good are all playing SP you've ran them off.


unnerf the class so you can play it too. I dont' want arguements against, if you fight what I'm trying to do by fussing and saying no and blah blah, then you are trolling and need to have your posts deleted and my thread needs to stay unlocked.


The purpose is to come up with ways to incorperate the thief into UO, and maybe through that the pvp systems and the murderer system can find a way to trammel, and trammel can find a way to fel and we can all play together, and the dynamics of how we interact should always be changing.


This is a thread for ideas to help the thief class. Stop trolling, and instead explain how you'd like to have a thief when you've done everything else, how they can interact with everyone overall good and bad, and play without being a subshard char. When have you seen anyone in trammel with a packhorse and dyetubs or any part of that? But you'll see the murderers raise skills there and play there while blue with the skills given.


I want to look at the thief as a skill and a char, something hard, not uber, but challenging and frustrating to overcome. Not easy to do, because it's easy to grief,


but there should be a way they can fit.


If you can't figure it out, then I say you are stupid because you can't even reinvent a skill class to suit your style of play. I don't care if you want to use them to steal from dark fathers, players, chests, or what, I just want to see the skill and the class being used by people and popular. Fun and not candy, because a thief isn't supposed to be candy.


Ahh rant..


but yeah, good ideas peoples. What's your idea of a trammel thief. If it sucks and it's not something to play and try like a mage or a bard, or a warrior, or a craftsman, or a merchant, or a fisherman, then you need to think hard and come up with ideas that are good to make it that way.

 

[kelmo]

then it's a neglected skill, and you are only putting a limit on yourselves and the game.




Taking challenge and risk away from the game


taking gold sinks and item sinks/redistibution from the player skillset and just rearranging it to a civilized system.






you can do all of that without the thief, but why? You have to admit trammel is out of balance with cheaters, rich folks, and folks who have no risk and all of the forums to easy shortcut them to final goals. UOA and f2 jammed. Context menus and whatnot.



There is only one place for the thief. IN UO.

If it comes to be too much, then stamp out every thief you see on site, travel in groups. Whatever. It's a plus in every way except for comfort and the game has that in spades now.


It's a grief class sure, but it's one that can be used for the benifit of a game that needs a challenge, and one that has so many riches. If there's no danger of losing it, then there is no real value anyhow. All of your pretty pictures that you are so afraid to lose.


this was a huge part of the game that had to be nerfed, but just because you forgot how to play it doesn't mean it doesn't belong in some form. Player vs player fighting and stealing are just as equal to the rest of the gameplays and should be treated as equal for balance issues and to open new fields of playing for old and new players.

This tram/fel/sp thing isn't working and if you've played this game long enough, you can see that no matter what the ruleset is or what people want at the time, it has to change eventually or it gets stale. AOS came out a long time ago, thieves that are good are all playing SP you've ran them off.


unnerf the class so you can play it too. I dont' want arguements against, if you fight what I'm trying to do by fussing and saying no and blah blah, then you are trolling and need to have your posts deleted and my thread needs to stay unlocked.


The purpose is to come up with ways to incorperate the thief into UO, and maybe through that the pvp systems and the murderer system can find a way to trammel, and trammel can find a way to fel and we can all play together, and the dynamics of how we interact should always be changing.


This is a thread for ideas to help the thief class. Stop trolling, and instead explain how you'd like to have a thief when you've done everything else, how they can interact with everyone overall good and bad, and play without being a subshard char. When have you seen anyone in trammel with a packhorse and dyetubs or any part of that? But you'll see the murderers raise skills there and play there while blue with the skills given.


I want to look at the thief as a skill and a char, something hard, not uber, but challenging and frustrating to overcome. Not easy to do, because it's easy to grief,


but there should be a way they can fit.


If you can't figure it out, then I say you are stupid because you can't even reinvent a skill class to suit your style of play. I don't care if you want to use them to steal from dark fathers, players, chests, or what, I just want to see the skill and the class being used by people and popular. Fun and not candy, because a thief isn't supposed to be candy.


Ahh rant..


but yeah, good ideas peoples. What's your idea of a trammel thief. If it sucks and it's not something to play and try like a mage or a bard, or a warrior, or a craftsman, or a merchant, or a fisherman, then you need to think hard and come up with ideas that are good to make it that way.

I give up. It is less than a rant... It is a whimper.

 

[ShadowJack]

That's a troll comment.



What would you do to make a thief char a playable char in trammel. A balanced and fun class that has it's own skillsets to raise (stealing, snooping, detect hidden, lockpicking, stealth, hiding, remove trap) and the hybrids to go with it.



How would you take the thief skill set and make it an everyday char in the game.

What are your suggestions for improvment of an in game class


something new that you would have fun playing or think you could have fun playing or against it.



I don't need you to tear down, I need you to build up.

 

[kelmo]

That's a troll comment.



What would you do to make a thief char a playable char in trammel. A balanced and fun class that has it's own skillsets to raise (stealing, snooping, detect hidden, lockpicking, stealth, hiding, remove trap) and the hybrids to go with it.



How would you take the thief skill set and make it an everyday char in the game.

What are your suggestions for improvment of an in game class


something new that you would have fun playing or think you could have fun playing or against it.



I don't need you to tear down, I need you to build up.

I apologize. I did not mean to come off that way. Expect to stand in line a long time with this one, though. Take it from one that knows. Good luck.

 

[Beefybone]

Delete the stealing skill to make room for imbuing or something. The idea that other people enjoy having things stolen from them is a fantasy thieves cook up to avoid having to realize that they're The Class Nobody Wanted.

 

[Connor_Graham]

No other game will let you steal the way UO used to.

And YOU don't see the pattern in that alone?

4 words....


Naked. Leg. Humping. Thieves.


Zero risk, not even loss of insurance.

All the rewards.

 

[Bouche835]

Just bring the stealing skill to trammel. No change in ruleset, they can just steal whatever you don't have insured.

If they become too much of a problem, good thieves don't mind dying, and they are not equal to any kind of damage output char


If they became too much of a problem, then I'm sure it would revamp the detective and the forensic's skill.


And being attackable on site outside of the protected areas would keep the thieves in check. If your miner can kill them, then you shouldn't have trouble.


If he can't, then you'll have to learn to kill him or team up to do it. All community.


The items they steal are just pixles, and the important stuff that you have is insured. You can balance it, but changing the game later, to add things to and from the stealable list.


Instead of a new expansion and a flux of new npcs, then just add the thief class to trammel.



You guys will have fun killing and avoiding the thieves, you'll have fun making the thief to steal from people you don't know, people you like to mess with them, people you hate to cause them to die in fights (ie bandies..garlic..)



The revamp of the thief class would be an expansion to the game that would lead to positive gameplay outputs.



There would take some adjustment, and loss, but the community as a whole can suck it up and learn to deal with the threat



And if you don't think the thief belongs in trammel, then look at the game. Look at where the story line takes you of the flee to trammel, the escape of thieves and murders, but no one can stay safe forever. The thieves slip through eventually and cause chaos, does trammel fight back to keep the shard safe, or do they lose hope and virtue, becoming thieves themselves and abandoning the virtues. Through their own sins, does the first murder enter into trammel?







I say test the spirit of the community, fel and tram are the yin and the yang. The virtue and the anti.



Trammel being safe shouldn't be a ruleset thing, it should be part of the game.





I say bring the thief in as a anti char, and someone who can test the moral culture of the UO society.






and make it fun.





I wanna play a thief if I pay to play this game.







favorite class.





I wanna play a thief.




At gm the skill says you are a grandmaster pickpocket. That seems good enough, but at being a legendary, maybe you would be good enough to slip some boundries.




and the thief/mage, thief/warrior thief/stealther...whatever are always fun hybrids

That is a great idea to bad they will not go for it.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

The Class Nobody Wanted.

Yes because over the years, all of the people who have played thieves is proof positive that thieves aren't a wanted class. I know plenty of non thieves that loved the interactions they had with thieves. I know I've mentioned this numerous times, but a simple band aid to help both sides of the class would be to re-issue perma-grey status of thieves. Let detectives start playing again. Hunt players who are perma grey without worry of penalty.

Make forensics a useful skill again. I used to love seeing how long I could run around with perma-grey before someone killed me. It would be non stop fun, for me, and for the people whom I had stolen from because they could openly attack me everywhere...la

 

[Sarphus]

I only read 2 sentences, but I know it wouldn't work. Stealing for keeps in trammel doesn't work.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

I like stealth, I use it a lot, it's fun, and I just like being stealthy Basically, the thief/stealther hybrid is useless to me since you can't steal while hidden. You instantly get revealed when you use the stealing skill. Does that not defeat the whole purpose of being stealthy?

Being stealthy allows one to stalk a mark, but I don't see allowing stealing while hidden as a useful idea. The whole idea most people keep playing thieves is because of the chase after the steal. With the ninja skill and some of the weapon abilities to get into the shadows, has almost made it too easy to get away. I will admit, I miss the days of strictly hiding and stealth as hiding skills.

Sure people got creative with tele/hide tricks with teleport rings, but that actually took some practice and timing, unlike egg/smoke bombs...la

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Naked. Leg. Humping. Thieves.

Do we have to go back to trying to explaining the many ways how to protect oneself from thieves again?...la

 

[Beefybone]

Why should I bother "protecting" myself from thieves when you guys can just remain nerfed into oblivion? Also, I'm getting tired of people who play thieves trying to tell me how much fun it is to be stolen from.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

I'm getting tired of people who play thieves trying to tell me how much fun it is to be stolen from.

link?...la

 

[Nexus]

they're The Class Nobody Wanted.

Obviously not since the people playing them seem to want them.

 

[Ni-]

I'm getting tired of people who play thieves trying to tell me how much fun it is to be stolen from.

link?...la

The Class Nobody Wanted.

I know plenty of non thieves that loved the interactions they had with thieves.

Link?...ni

 

[Ni-]

... on a serious note... I have nothin against theiving in PvP areas. My only quarrel is with PvP theiving in Trammel. Some people like to play games to relax. Some people like to play games that are predictable. Some people like to play games that give them a rush. The Trammel rule set seems to accomodate the first two examples. The Felucca rule set could be considered to accomodate the last.

If Felucians wish their rule set to not allow insurance or benefits from blessed items(auto undressed or item properties ignored while in Felucca). Then champion for those rules to your hearts content!

 

[Beefybone]

Link?...ni

LOL!

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

I'm getting tired of people who play thieves trying to tell me how much fun it is to be stolen from.

link?...la

The Class Nobody Wanted.

I know plenty of non thieves that loved the interactions they had with thieves.

Link?...ni

Wow, nice quote, however, you missed the whole point of the sentenced i quoted. I stated that "I knew plenty of people", not "I know Beefybone".

Please do go and look up what I've said more...just make sure to quote something that actually matches what I'm looking for...la

 

[Kith Kanan]

Insurance murdered thieves because at the time they only stole for the pleasure of griefing another player. The nostalgic old thief that everybody whines/pines for was nothing more then a 100% griefer.

To this day thieves can steal to their hearts content at CHAMP spawns yet 99% choose not to because that involves patience and risk and playing the template as it is supposed to be played. None of them ever wanted to do that. They all just wanted to be able to run up to someone, click 2 simple macro keys, and run away laughing.

Once the Devs realized that there was absolutely no risk and all reward for the thief with absolutely 0 skill they rightly nerfed it. When you added the fact that 99% of all thieves were just doing it to grief it was a no brainer.

QFT !!

 

[Nexus]

Insurance murdered thieves because at the time they only stole for the pleasure of griefing another player. The nostalgic old thief that everybody whines/pines for was nothing more then a 100% griefer.

To this day thieves can steal to their hearts content at CHAMP spawns yet 99% choose not to because that involves patience and risk and playing the template as it is supposed to be played. None of them ever wanted to do that. They all just wanted to be able to run up to someone, click 2 simple macro keys, and run away laughing.

Once the Devs realized that there was absolutely no risk and all reward for the thief with absolutely 0 skill they rightly nerfed it. When you added the fact that 99% of all thieves were just doing it to grief it was a no brainer.

QFT !!

Not exactly. Being a Thief always had risks, Blues used to fight Reds, Reds fight Blues but everyone fought the Thief regardless of what color he flagged, we were and are free game we can't give counts and if we're out of the GZ there is nothing we can do about it. Think of some of the other things that used to apply to thieves. You have to be in the thieves guild...at one point back in the day if you took a single count you were removed from it unable to steal from players until you found a Thieves Guild Master and rejoined after waiting on your count to wear off. Have Blues ever gone Red from one count? No. Do Non-Thief Blues flag criminal for negative acts on a Murderer? No. There's not much a thief can do other than stand there looking at you or snooping that can't possibly flag them and open them up as fair game for everyone. That's the Risk of being a Thief your always the bad guy, you are everyone regardless of their noto's target.

Here's why I don't think Thieves could become a Strong "Grief" class again.
Current Game mechanics even if Insurance was removed would invalidate half his argument against any revitalization of the thief class. They added the additional difficulty of passive reveal I can't always just walk up on someone. Most thieves have actually added Ninjitsu to their skill set so they can get close without revealing adding yet more points to a 400 point base skill set. Kill Insurance in Fel and Thieves will be in a pinch while at the same time have more options on who and what to steal. Why a bigger pinch? Well now your looking at 500 points in skills just to have a means to steal an item, just to guarantee you don't get revealed trying to snoop a pack, be able to steal the item and hope you can get away. That other 200-220 points it won't stretch far once you factor in a way to avoid having to walk everywhere.

 

[Beefybone]

Doesn't matter. Nobody Likes Thieves. Your class is dead.

 

[Warrior of Time]

The people who will suffer most are vets, not the new players. The new players who stay and hold on and fight and have fun will learn to be evil, or to fight the evil. the old players will overcome it, adapt (become) or die.

Seems you are not one of the old players. Back when keys was taken, locks was changed, black pearls being taken disabled a mage, reds was not able to access a NPC, Reds was not permitted in town, And bodies being cut up for the bountys.

I can't help but wonder if you read about content being added to SA just to bring the thief back into the game. Did you read about the conflict between letting a gargoyal fly in stealth form. If you could it is like stealing while mounted. [Flying is the same speed as riding a mount.] Adding things that can't be insured, adding reasons for people to come to Felucca. If there is enough reasons to go to Felucca people will be there.

I remember counting steps and now I can run and shadow jump. If you don't think so play UO:SA.

 

[Ni-]

I'm getting tired of people who play thieves trying to tell me how much fun it is to be stolen from.

link?...la

The Class Nobody Wanted.

I know plenty of non thieves that loved the interactions they had with thieves.

Link?...ni

Wow, nice quote, however, you missed the whole point of the sentenced i quoted. I stated that "I knew plenty of people", not "I know Beefybone".

Please do go and look up what I've said more...just make sure to quote something that actually matches what I'm looking for...la

I was merely pointing out a perceived hypocracy. You asked for a link for proof, however literal it was meant. I simply returned the favor. I did that in jest. It wasn't intended to match what you were looking for.

To the topic of this thread, I am all for other playing styles being attended to. As long as mine is not impeded upon too much. I mean, we all really only care about our own play styles, else would you really be championing your own?