Champion Spawns and 2X Resources for Trammel

[EnigmaMaitreya]

....
It is funny that you just want to disregard the population in UO which actually frequent Felucca.
... .....

While the number of people who play UO may not exceed the number who stay in Trammel facets, it is not small enough to just push them aside.

I bet the number of players who truly want Power Scrolls in Trammel is a fraction of the population of Felucca players.

While the number of people who play UO may not exceed the number who stay in Trammel facets, it is not small enough to just push them aside.

Let me state what I think you meant to say ...

"While the number of people who play UO" should read
"While the number of people who play Felucca"

IF so, then let us get this straight.

It is NOT the Trammel people pushing the Felucca people around. It is the Felucca People HOURLY trying to sell some CON/SCAM on HOW TO REMOVE TRAMMEL. Seeing as to how YOU choose to NOT bring it to their attention how they are misguided YOU BY YOUR SILENCE CONSENT to their CON/SCAM.

IT is in FACT this MINORITY that is DESPERATELY trying to BULLY, DEMEAN etc the MAJORITY.

IT IS IN FACT time that this STOPS.
IT IS IN FACT time for this to STOP NOW.

YOU can come to the party singing the tune "The Feluccans are the SUPERIOR group and is the ONLY ONES HAVING FUN IN UO. The TRAMMIES are nothing and NEED TO BE TAUGHT HOW TO BE". You can come to the party singing that tune. BE MY GUEST, it is a FREE INTERNET.

BUT

YOU can also come to the party ready to deal with the REALITIES OF THE UO POPULATION DEMOGRAPHICS.

One way you can be a part of things, the other way you can just be the same old white noise. BUT if you come to the party thinking the (IN YOUR WORDS NOT MINE) 25% CAN DICTATE/DOMINATE to/the 75% then ... well GOOD LUCK TO YOU

 

[Black Majick]

Fel is the only place you can force your play style on someone else, I bet you'd have a different opinion if they could force theirs on you.

No. We would kill them before they could.

 

[Harb]

Ultima's Creator was still at the helm during almost the entire development process of what became Trammel, it is part of what he intended....Richard Garriott left in March of 2000, UO:R launched in April, so actually he was probably there for the entire time of it's development.

Not to argue or start an unrelated "**** and moan," but I actually had a few low friends in high places during this period. Don't take anything away from Garriott, UO was his vision, but he was not the driving force on design and development, Raph Koster was, seconded by Anthony Castoro. Raph has commented on this several times since his departure from OSI, and though he's never directly said he was wrong, has implied as much and talked "around" errors made in some preconceptions, particularly with regard to player behavior and consequence. I know "Tajima" still looks at these boards from time to time, if he should choose to, he can really lay this out in detail, all I could do is retransmit things I probably should not. But no, if you want to talk about UO's creator, it was Raph. And he has outlined where he believes things did not go as he had envisioned, which by the way, do encompass the fundamental "essence" of this thread.

I don't disagree with anything else in your post

 

[Ghost_Writer]

Given the clear Minority of the Feluccan's, is it time to let the Trammelians have access to these two "Perks" the Feluccan's ... have had.

Thus enabling access to the Power Scrolls etc to the Trammelians, enabling better resource gathering to the Trammelians.

Is it time to give both sides equal access to these "Perks" / Resources (Power Scrolls, Skill Scrolls etc).

Everyone already has "equal access to these "Perks"", all you have to do is go to Fel to get them.

This comes from someone who can count the amount of time I've spent in Fel since Tram opened. There needs to be some modivation to go to Fel, sorry.

 

[Viper09]

So, because you are obviously pissed off on a number of fel players, you want to take the couple of things that fel has that the other facets don't have? So then what will make fel different besides the PvP aspect? Nothing at all.

 

[Nexus]

Everyone already has "equal access to these "Perks"", all you have to do is go to Fel to get them.

This comes from someone who can count the amount of time I've spent in Fel since Tram opened. There needs to be some modivation to go to Fel, sorry.

You can't motivate people with bait for long they simply look past it and accept it is what it is. Also you can't expect people to go against their personal play styles. Fact of the matter is as long as PvP in Fel has no restrictions or rules to keep those that don't want to engage in it Fel will stay in the state it is. Toss out more honey and a few experienced people might run for it, a few might find they like the PvP life. The vast majority on the other hand will be sitting right back in Trammel listening to the Felucca PvP community complain and call them a bunch of Care Bears.

But I'm dead set on this opinion. Unless some reassessment of Risk vs Reward is done, because there is No Risk now in Fel with Insurance, there is no justification on restricting either Reds to Fel or Power Scroll Drops to Fel Spawns. None at all, loss of a few Gold isn't risk, loss of a hand full of bandages and pots isn't risk. Now if you didn't have Insurance and lost a valuable suit...that would be risk.

 

[Draxous]

People who don't enjoy the aspects of this game that truly make it exciting, or are willing to learn, improve or maybe even expand their horizons a bit don’t deserve to enjoy the benefits.

Where people derive enjoyment of the game varies from person to person. I get excited when playing my thief... I get excited just as much Solo keying Chief Paroxysmus, I enjoy keying Travesty or the Dreadhorn solo on my Dexxer, just because you like the excitement you derive from PvP doesn't mean everyone does or should.

This is totally true.

Someone else said it either on this thread or a similar one, Fel is the only place you can force your play style on someone else, I bet you'd have a different opinion if they could force theirs on you.

Sorry bro, but this is totally not true.

Otherwise, I wouldn't have to PvM at all in order to PvP... or go to Trammel in order to get an Artifact... or go to Trammel to obtain certain peerless ingredients...

This game is all about chosing which playstyle you prefer and enjoying it. If there is something you need that is obtainable from another playstyle... you either go get it yourself full aware of the decision your making to do so, or you pay someone to get it for you if you decide that's not your cup of tea.

That's it.

And this Enigma guy is a loonie toon.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

I hate to jump on the bandwagon but you are so clueless Enigma that I feel I have no choice.

At the time you chose "to play the Trammel play style" were there powerscrolls & 2x resources in Trammel? No, of course not.

So you got exactly what you chose son. Now you are unhappy with what you chose so instead of growing a set you are now "choosing" to whine to the Devs to help you get what you are clearly unable to obtain yourself ingame

Extremely pathetic.

The point of this reply is NOT to the poster as they didnt have anything to say. As evidenced by the need to tell you that all you are to them is ... something ... that needs to be taught how to be, that you are so out of touch with reality, that you do not even know your NOT HAVING FUN, that what you think is FUN is really your dillusion, your reality check being bounced, that ONLY they are REAL people

Recognize post like these for what they are. Plain pointless Rhetoric. Making the same old Cliches as always. Being totally clueless as to what it is they are even saying.

The imperative for change.
The agent of change.

We see these all the time in all MMORPG's.

We see how things GET CHANGED. Things get changed by people taking a stand. ACTUALLY having something to say on the subject. Convincing the audience of the correctness of their position while their opponent files pointless rhetoric designed to attack the individual, demonstrating the belief that the audience is all about attacking people, demonstrating that they can NOT field any argument against what your saying so they resort to arguing about YOU. In this context you can NOT LOSE.

DO NOT be fooled by Day Care Psycho Babble Rhetoric, as exampled by the quoted post. Just give them the careful attention they deserve.

It is just there very best shot in their arsenal to try to stop you from effecting change.

 

[Nexus]

This is totally true.



Sorry bro, but this is totally not true.

Otherwise, I wouldn't have to PvM at all in order to PvP... or go to Trammel in order to get an Artifact... or go to Trammel to obtain certain peerless ingredients...

This game is all about chosing which playstyle you prefer and enjoying it. If there is something you need that is obtainable from another playstyle... you either go get it yourself full aware of the decision your making to do so, or you pay someone to get it for you if you decide that's not your cup of tea.

That's it.

And this Enigma guy is a loonie toon.

I see your point but also I'm all for non-blues being given access to all facets too. For me if there's a change to facilitate things that were Fel only to other areas, then by all means let the people that were restricted to Fel come to Trammel, Malas, Tokuno, and Ilshnear. As long as they play within the rule set of the facet they are currently on. I'm not a Take away and give nothing back kind of person, well when I play my thief by when it comes to actions in game I never have felt Reds should have been restricted to Fel's environments.

 

[Viper09]

I see your point but also I'm all for non-blues being given access to all facets too. For me if there's a change to facilitate things that were Fel only to other areas, then by all means let the people that were restricted to Fel come to Trammel, Malas, Tokuno, and Ilshnear. As long as they play within the rule set of the facet they are currently on. I'm not a Take away and give nothing back kind of person, well when I play my thief by when it comes to actions in game I never have felt Reds should have been restricted to Fel's environments.

Ya know, that would be nice. Reds in trammel shouldn't even cause any problem, being that you can't pvp in trammel.

 

[Surgeries]

 

[Ailish]

Fel is the only place you can force your play style on someone else, I bet you'd have a different opinion if they could force theirs on you.

No ... it isnt. Everytime I have to go to Ilsh (Tram ruleset) to get a Cu or do a Dreadhorn, or to Tokuno (Tram ruleset) to get a lesser or reg. hiryu, or to do Travesty, or Malas to go to Doom the "safety net" playstyle is being forced on me - that is, by your standards. Sure, I can pay someone else to procure those things for me ... same as you can pay someone else to procure Scrolls for you ...

Not to mention in Tram ruleset I have to deal with griefers who spawn-hog, kill-steal, use area peace to grief, lure and much much more. The only option I have to get away from that is to go home or "PvGM" fight.

Enigma - you also are missing the fact that if UO lost 25% of its playerbase at this point ... the other 75% would be screwed. Both sides DO need eachother, and it is time for you to accept that. Before you go off on your "but FEL PLAYERS WANT THE REVERSE" tangent, I am not one of those players that thinks Tram should be abolished, so this argument is not going to work on me. Yes, I would dearly love to have an all PvP shard with production rules (insurance, 6-7 chars, etc) ... but it isnt going to happen. Guess what? Neither is a NO PvP shard.

And, as many have pointed out and you refuse to accept ... you DO have free access to Champ Spawns and double resources ... the same way I have free access to Doom and Cu's and Hiryus and Peerless and Paragons and Fan Dancers and and and and and and and ... You can either purchase from other players, or you can deal with the ruleset and go do it yourself, same way I have the option to purchase from other players or deal with the ruleset and get it myself.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Ya know, that would be nice. Reds in trammel shouldn't even cause any problem, being that you can't pvp in trammel.

With one tiny little ittsy bittsy flaw.

What follows is a generalization and is not intended to be all inclusive of Feluccans.

The "Red's" are inherently NOT ABLE TO BE CIVIL.

What distinguishes the "RED" from the Trammel player is that the Trammel player will play by the house rules, in short they go to Fel they play by those rules. The "Red" goes to Trammel and THEY WILL NOT PLAY BY THE HOUSE RULES. They will lure monsters on players, they will do anything and everything they can to PK the Trammel Players by using GAME ENGINE ARTIFACTS.

IF they would 100% comply, 100% of the time with Trammel Rules then I doubt seriously ANYONE WOULD MIND (except the Trammel Fanatics) them being there.

BUT how many exploits could be found that fundamentally enable that "Red" to Flag that Trammel Player.

Are you willing to GUARANTEE, in a meaningful and accountable way, their good behavior?

 

[Ailish]

The "Red's" are inherently NOT ABLE TO BE CIVIL.

What distinguishes the "RED" from the Trammel player is that the Trammel player will play by the house rules, in short they go to Fel they play by those rules. The "Red" goes to Trammel and THEY WILL NOT PLAY BY THE HOUSE RULES. They will lure monsters on players, they will do anything and everything they can to PK the Trammel Players by using GAME ENGINE ARTIFACTS.

IF they would 100% comply, 100% of the time with Trammel Rules then I doubt seriously ANYONE WOULD MIND (except the Trammel Fanatics) them being there.

BUT how many exploits could be found that fundamentally enable that "Red" to Flag that Trammel Player.

Are you willing to GUARANTEE, in a meaningful and accountable way, their good behavior?

First, you would be APPALLED at how many "Trammel Players" on your shard are actually "Reds" on their Blues going about procuring the goods they want that are not accessable in Fel by doing it themselves. Most of the DO "play by the house rules" - obviously better than you, because you want to CHANGE the "house rules" of Fel to suit you. If you saw me in Tram taming Cu's or chatting at the bank, you would have NO CLUE I am a PvPer unless you personally knew my characters. This is true of 99% of the Feluccans I know on both Napa and Atlantic.

Second ... those things you mentioned? Luring, griefing, etc? That is EXACTLY what I experienced from tried and true Tram players - whole guilds that would be aghast at the idea of going to Fel - during the Magencia event. Its what I would see if a Blaze Cu popped up, or if only the highest damager could have gotten the ticket off Melissa. You can bet your bottom dollar I went home to Fel where at least the game is honest - you don't like me or want my goodies, you kill or attempt to kill me. Not this "Oh, darn, I just drug 20 monsters onto you because I want your goodies".

 

[Ghost_Writer]

The "Red" goes to Trammel and THEY WILL NOT PLAY BY THE HOUSE RULES.

Now you're totaly off base. REDs play by the rules, Fel rules. They always have. Just because someone is a murderer doesn't mean they can't be civil.

I believe the reason Reds can't be allowed in Tram is for the safety of the Reds, not the trammies. Although you cannot attack a blue in Tram, ever try to attack a Priest of Mondain? Wouldn't be fair to Reds to stick them in an environment where they could be attacked at will but had to wait to be attacked before they could defend themselves..

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

...
Enigma - you also are missing the fact that if UO lost 25% of its playerbase at this point ... the other 75% would be screwed.
...

This we disagree on, there is no harm financially done to the Trammel players if ALL Feluccans were to cancel their accounts. The Remaining dollars would more than fund UO.

IF the EA guy was speaking the truth and we will limit it to 100,000 subscriptions, then if 25,000 left well 75,000 will keep the game open. IF 75,000 left, then it is not a given that the 25,000 can pay the bills.

BUT

THAT IS NOT WHY THE FELUCCANS ARE NEEDED.

They are needed to provide a diversity, a different perspective on the game. IF you take EQ as a model, where they have separated PvM and PvP by Worlds/Shards you will see stagnation ON BOTH SIDES. YOU can look at the ISOLATED SP in UO and draw your own conclusion.

This is a war/battle that can NOT have a decisive victor. IT CAN ONLY BE WON if there is a stable common ground. This is NOT going to happen if HOURLY SOME ONE CREATES YET ANOTHER NEW CON/SCAM ON HOW TO GET RID OF TRAMMEL. Or people CONSTANTLY SAY THE ONLY MEANINGFUL AND REAL EXPERIENCE IS MY EXPERIENCE, ANYTHING ELSE IS ******** AND HERE LET ME SHOW YOU HOW TO BE A REAL ....what ever.

The ONLY meaningful measurement for PLAYERS (vs Scriptors/Gold Sellers) is the ENTERTAINMENT VALUE OF THE EXPERIENCE. Risk vs Reward, at one time had an understandable definition. It has become so perverted by people Sloganizing it that have NO CLUE what they mean by it, that is now a NON RELEVANT and MEANINGLESS Cliche.

This needs to come to an end. DO YOU expect EA/M to make it all better? To some how legislate/mandate that everyone will be on their best behavior? Well if you do, then again we disagree. WE MUST DO THAT, meaning the two camps MUST TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY to stop members of their own camp from being .... destructive. That a concerted effort must be made by all to be CONSTRUCTIVE.

The first step in this is for Feluccans to accept they are the minority. They MUST LOSE THEIR FEAR AND TRUST in the fact that they will be here tomorrow and that things CAN GET BETTER FOR THEM.

The second step will be to FREE THEM FROM THE ALBATROSS NAMED TRAMMEL THAT IS AROUND THEIR NECK.

Felucca NEVER needed Trammel. Trammel NEVER needed Felucca.

OSI's GREAT SIN was in allowing the TWEENERS to exist. The ones that wanted/want to exist in BOTH worlds via the same character. This group will constantly be trying to make both cultures the same. It is inherent to their choice. The choice to be BOTH Feluccan and Trammel at the same time.

CAREFUL A GENERALIZATION FOLLOWS.

If a person has a Feluccan Character they will subtly (or not) alter their persona for that character to match the culture.

If they have a Trammel Character they will subtly (or not) alter their persona for that character to match the culture.

In short they DO NOT TRY TO BE BOTH CONCURRENTLY.

------------

Well I saw your reply above this and you make it clear you run the little scams to perpetuate your need to attack the person. I do not feed those addicted to online verbal violence. You use the tactic of pretending you know something about a person, you obviously could not know anything about. You use this in a desperate attempt to get your FIX. You have a nice day.

 

[Ghost_Writer]

This is NOT going to happen if HOURLY SOME ONE CREATES YET ANOTHER NEW CON/SCAM ON HOW TO GET RID OF TRAMMEL. Or people CONSTANTLY SAY THE ONLY MEANINGFUL AND REAL EXPERIENCE IS MY EXPERIENCE, ANYTHING ELSE IS ******** AND HERE LET ME SHOW YOU HOW TO BE A REAL ....what ever.

Isn't that exactly what you are doing but to Fel??? I don't like PvP so lets get rid of Fel.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Isn't that exactly what you are doing but to Fel??? I don't like PvP so lets get rid of Fel.

Ok, you made the assertion, now quote me, were I have said anything even remotely like what you assert I have said.

WHEN IT IS CLEAR YOU CAN NOT, then what will be your next form of attack?

This Poll NEVER ADVOCATED THE REMOVAL of the Champion Spawn from Felucca DID IT!

Do you not find it a bit ironic, that you need to portray Felucca as so fragile that it will collapse if Trammel had the ability to acquire the Power Scrolls, yet accept the argument thatn they are basically so plentiful that they are approaching being worthless.

 

[Ailish]

Ugh. First you make a valid and good point that players of all styles are needed in the game for diversity, and how separate shards would not work, then you turn around and say that the "tweeners" should not have been allowed.

I would be one of those "tweeners". I enjoy much that the Tram facet has to offer, but I also enjoy much that Fel has to offer (I don't mean scrolls and double resources, either, although those are sure handy). I have never asked or thought that both cultures should be the same. I accept what the game is and has to offer and know that it is all good. If I did not accept that, I would move to a freeshard. There are a couple very reputable ones that DO offer it one way or the other.

On a side note - anyone who thinks that Champ Spawns would be more friendly in Tram is wrong. There are just as many, if not more, pure Tram players that would willingly grief in any way they could to "steal" a spawn from other players if scrolls dropped in Tram. Sure, they would not be able to kill the other people honestly ... so they would do it dishonestly with no way for the others to fight back. Sad. But true.

 

[HD2300]

I vote no change.

Obviously PvPers and Merchants/Resellers would say no, because if they dropped in Tram they would sell for less.

My reason is that there is a LONG time until there is new content. If everyone maxes out their characters, it is more likely they will leave before SA is released. It is the same reason why ROT skill gains are slow, because once your character is maxed out you are more likely to leave.

 

[Viper09]

Alright Enigma, so it's plain and simple that you want to create a big divide. You want every good thing that fel has without having to go there. And granted that reds would have access to tram rule set facets, you are completely opposed, claiming that they will cause problems and luring, etc, which is exactly what I see a lot of tram players do. Creating a big divide of fel players and tram rule set players is not the way to go. It's obvious you have some kind of problem with PvPers. I think this post is more of a rant on your part Enigma and should be placed in the correct forum.

 

[Bardie]

WHEN IT IS CLEAR YOU CAN NOT, then what will be your next form of attack?Telling you to STFU? And triple charge you for these scrolls that you want so bad but don't want to risk anything getting them for running your mouth?

This Poll NEVER ADVOCATED THE REMOVAL of the Champion Spawn from Felucca DID IT! Nope just you cryin over and over repeating the same words over and over, grow a pair and try to get them yourself, how hard is that? What shard do you play on? Im sure right now is the perfect time to try.

Do you not find it a bit ironic, that you need to portray Felucca as so fragile that it will collapse if Trammel had the ability to acquire the Power Scrolls, yet accept the argument thatn they are basically so plentiful that they are approaching being worthless.

seriously now go to bed

 

[RoycroftLS]

I voted no for adding those to Trammel. With all the trolling and namecalling in this thread, it doesn't seem my reasoning will be read by many people at this point, but I'll give it a shot anyway.

There should be some unique reward for those people who choose to take on the added risk of the Fel ruleset. PvP is certainly a popular aspect of online gaming, and there should be a way for those people to make a living in game with minimal PvM. It's never good to force players into a playstyle they do not prefer.

The concern with some PvP guilds having a stranglehold on the power scroll market is valid, but adding scrolls to Trammel is treating the symptoms instead of the cause. Fixing the widespread exploiting and hacking would help alleviate those strangleholds without wiping out the entire PvP scene.

I will say that the 2X resources should be limited to Fel areas outside guard zones. There isn't much risk involved if I naked run to Fel Delucia and harvest the leather/ore/lumber there.

 

[Wenchkin]

Wenchy, We are going to disagree and I think I know you know what is comming next.

I can not tame a Cu Sidhe, Dread War Horse or a Greater Dragon without the Power Scrolls now can I. That is a rhetorical question as I learned most of what I know about taming from you and Llewyn (sp). SO I assume you made your statement for a reason, I simply did not get that reason.

Well, you know you don't *need* those specific pets as a tamer. In fact, my younger ones all just use kitsune now. If there's a template that is more pushed towards PS use its the bard, but again it's possible to do without and still function. The PS just allows you to get to the higher end stuff. And if we don't want to PvP for those, we can buy them. Or pick them up off the floor.

Some times when that is what is going on, one or more people simply need to counter that White Noise and bring silence. The kind of Silence that, if a group takes advantage of, can allow differing camps to create a dialogue, a conversation. BUT at some point that group is going to need to decide if it stands with THEIR extremist or do they distance themselves, actively, from those extremist.

What they need to do is let their fears go. Find common ground and learn to tolerate differences. Learn that it is far better to have a person with you because that is what they want rather than to have a person with you because they were forced to be with you.

What everyone needs to do is to stop letting the fanatics drive the Boat. To stand up and say they do not represent the majority view. Regardless of which camp that Fanatic speaking the White Noise is aligned with.

If I distanced myself from all the crazy UO players, I'm not sure how many friends I'd still have The good players I know in Fel do distance themselves from the cheats and rogues around us. But it's like the wierd nutty kid at school - sometimes they just keep following you around trying to be your friend lol. We can't banish them from Fel, or speaking about Fel. Which is why I just try and get them together even if my first choice is exclusion. That and sometimes the really bad cases can turn out to be decent folks once you get talking. Or once they see that your town is of value to them, for example. We haven't got an environment where we can take a popular vote on who gets to stay in the facet. Might be funny if we did though... *evil grin*

But I also see a lot of extreme tram views too - and who from Tram will tell them they're wrong? If I did get a big enough dose of elephant tranquillizer one night and settled all of Fel down, would that truly stop the problems? I don't sadly think it's that easy. Players get set in their ways, and I guess us Fel folks are no different. It's not a quick or easy process to make things better, but I don't think it's time to quit either

Wenchy

 

[Ghost_Writer]

Isn't that exactly what you are doing but to Fel??? I don't like PvP so lets get rid of Fel.

Ok, you made the assertion, now quote me, were I have said anything even remotely like what you assert I have said.

WHEN IT IS CLEAR YOU CAN NOT, then what will be your next form of attack?

This Poll NEVER ADVOCATED THE REMOVAL of the Champion Spawn from Felucca DID IT!

Do you not find it a bit ironic, that you need to portray Felucca as so fragile that it will collapse if Trammel had the ability to acquire the Power Scrolls, yet accept the argument thatn they are basically so plentiful that they are approaching being worthless.

Um this whole thread is about moving champ spawns to Tram and 2x reasorces so there is no need to go to Fel... and as far as my quote of you it's the post directly above mine....

 

[trammelite]

to the OP:
come on, that's plain stupid. leave it as it is. if you want double resource, there are a lot of guarded areas where you can benefit from that in fel without risk.
if you want a PS or statscroll, man, everybody here might know me for being pro trammel and no pvp'er, but in this case, buy the scrolls or gear + team up and fight for it.
the existence of trammel and fel keeps a good balance for all of us players, whatever playstyle we prefer. removing one or the other or even remove the temptation of fel offering some specials you can not achieve otherways will kill the game.

 

[Traveller]

I can not tame a Cu Sidhe, Dread War Horse or a Greater Dragon without the Power Scrolls now can I. That is a rhetorical question as I learned most of what I know about taming from you and Llewyn (sp). SO I assume you made your statement for a reason, I simply did not get that reason.

I'll explain that. Although you need a PS to reach the endgame, you don't need a +20 PS. Are you seriously telling me that you cannot afford to pay for a +15?

+20s are a status symbol for trammel players (not so for pvpers), nothing more, and let's face it, it's what all the fuss is about.

 

[Fluffi]

Fair? Who said anything about Fair, other than you?

This is NOT about Fair.

It is 100% about FORCING (did you know that CAPS are there to bring attention to the word and that the online world has PERVERTED that definition to mean YELLING?) people to play the game in a manner that they CHOOSE TO NOT PLAY.

It is 100% ABOUT THE MINORITY FORCING THEIR CHOICES ON THE MAJORITY.

FAIR IS THE WHINE OF THAT MINORITY.

As in IT ISN'T FAIR THAT TRAMMEL HAVE EVERYTHING AND FELUCCA DOESN'T.

As in IT ISN'T FAIR THAT TRAMMELIANS ARE NOT FORCED TO COME TO FELUCCA AND PLAY OUR GAME.

Fair is the VERBIAGE of the Minority.

This is 100% ABOUT THE MINORITY FORCING THE MAJORITY.

Hello again,


I suggested that:

Please just accept that UO should not revolve around you, or the "Trammie carebears", or the "Felucca gankers."
For UO to progress, its' gameplay should be aimed at improving the experience of the 3rd class of UO player... you know... the players who might have a permanent "red", and also have a roleplay-only GM beggar-type character... (certainly a minority of the most vocal Stratics posters, but quite prossibly the majority of UO players.)

and you responded with:

It is really cool that you so clearly point out that you deal with the world based on Fantasies you create about the external world.

I thank you for making it quite clear the ... quality .... err ... the basis for your perceptions of the world. I can now .... give them .... the oh so careful attention they so .... richly deserve. Have a nice day now and remember to think/fantasize happy thoughts (or evil thoughts/fantasies to those that don't agree with you) about your perception of the External World.

On the other hand you might stick to what you know, which is absolutely nothing when it comes to me specifically and, in my opinion, not very much to nothing about the convenient stero types you .... what ever.

I'm not entirely sure how your response addressed the suggestion I made.





Your post quoted above uses the word "minority" four times, including the sentences

"Fair is the VERBIAGE of the Minority.

This is 100% ABOUT THE MINORITY FORCING THE MAJORITY"

As you can see from your own poll, a 2/3 majority are in favour of no change.

Will you now, as a minority, stop trying to force your VERBIAGE on the majority.

 

[Analytical]

It is time to address this Rhetorical Cliche/Slogan.

I have a right to get my OWN STUFF

There should be NO mandate that I BUY things.

Felucca and Trammel and there to allow people to CHOOSE THEIR PLAY STYLES.

IF I CHOOSE to play the Trammel play style, then I SHOULD NOT BE FORCED TO PLAY THE FELUCCA PLAY STYLE, to get things that are MANDATED TO HAVE in order to Play MY CHOICE OF PLAY STYLES.

People are BEING FORCED to NOT Play the game the way they want to play it.

Ok... some application of the implied logic above.

I should not have to be Blue to go to Doom....
I should not have to be Blue and pickup some esoteric quest to tame a cue side....
I should not have to have high karma to get the most out of my Chivalry spells...
I should not have to have taming to ride "cool" animals or control them...
I should not have to have stealth to use the Shadow Strike special.
I should not have to buy/have dyes to use a dye tub...

And....

I should be able to move my Chess pieces any darn direction I want! Checkmate FTW!
People that try to play by their own rules are the ones that usually end up playing alone.

You can get your own stuff, it requires some effort and the willingness to experience new things and a little objectivity when it comes to new trials. When is the last time you accomplished a personal goal, looked back and said "That was easy"?

I would also like to call you out on these "things" that are "mandated" to have for your play style. What is "mandated" for any play style? You're play style is self developed, EA makes no mandates other than stuff like Don't curse, Don't openly express bigoted views, and don't cheat. I don't see anything in the Terms of Service that requires you to "have" anything... other than a valid credit card, of course.

People aren't angry that Doom Artifacts come from Doom, nor are they angry that uber peerless loot comes from big baddies that, unless you are special, need to be battled in groups. The whole "fear" of Fel stigma is really pretty ridiculous. What are people afraid of, Dieing? I know people that die every thirty minutes in the trammel rulesets. You're insured, bonded, and half blessed... what are you going to loose? 2 minutes and 14K(give or take) that fits in you backpack? You're fame/karma title? Anything that took you more 10 minutes to obtain? You lose these things all the time when you take a dirt nap doing a Grizz or a Mel or when a Harpy eats you while you are chopping down the forests of Sosaria. Where is the difference, really? You risk no more, you lose no more...

We, as a whole, can go on with this "I don't get to play my way and you do." argument.... Your whining about the injustice of it all needs to stop, just say what you mean and be done with it. Which as far as I can tell is... "Mean people suck, give me free stuff."

The level of griefing that would come from scroll giving Champ Spawns in Tram areas... unimaginable. At least in Fel you can fight back... in Tram you'd probably just get banned for forcing a GM to show up and listen to your complaints.

Well... that was my post for the year! Thanks!

 

[ake]

ahahah this is pathetic! go hunt some mobs to get the money to buy what u are unable to get by yourself, is an hard world and there is no reason to give to the trammy the last few things that keep fell active.

u don't like PVP ok... but i saw tons of bluebie raid felly and sometime they discover a new world and enjoy it or they run back in their trammy crib after 1s crying like you.

 

[Eslake]

Your whining about the injustice of it all needs to stop, just say what you mean and be done with it. Which as far as I can tell is... "Mean people suck, give me free stuff."

I don't think you could have made it more obvious you are trying to get an argument rather than actually seeing someone's perspective.

Doom is mentioned over and over on here, and is used as an argument to allow reds into Trammel. The converse argument of PScrolls only being obtainable in Felucca, however, drives some into a frenzy of angry retorts.

How is it any different?

If one side can argue "You can buy powerscrolls" then the other side can just as legitimately argue "You can buy Doom Artis/Cu Sidhe/etc."



Someone up there a ways suggested that reds are played by antisocial players.
I read the article too, and that isn't what it said.

It said that the type of gamer who gravitated to games and activities where they are able to in some way kill the avatar of another player, are typically those with social disorders, and most often with issues of inferiority.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

Doom is mentioned over and over on here, and is used as an argument to allow reds into Trammel. The converse argument of PScrolls only being obtainable in Felucca, however, drives some into a frenzy of angry retorts.

How is it any different?

If one side can argue "You can buy powerscrolls" then the other side can just as legitimately argue "You can buy Doom Artis/Cu Sidhe/etc."

That's the difference right there, in the bold. There's a lot more you can get in non-Fel facets then you can get in Fel right now.

It said that the type of gamer who gravitated to games and activities where they are able to in some way kill the avatar of another player, are typically those with social disorders, and most often with issues of inferiority.

That's a bit broad. Games where you can kill others without them being able to retaliate are one thing, games where the "victim" can fight back are quite another.

For example, you wouldn't just say "All online FPS gamers have social disorders", now, would you?

... Now UO gamers, on the other hand...

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

I hate to jump on the bandwagon but you are so clueless Enigma that I feel I have no choice.

At the time you chose "to play the Trammel play style" were there powerscrolls & 2x resources in Trammel? No, of course not.

So you got exactly what you chose son. Now you are unhappy with what you chose so instead of growing a set you are now "choosing" to whine to the Devs to help you get what you are clearly unable to obtain yourself ingame

Extremely pathetic.

The point of this reply is NOT to the poster as they didnt have anything to say. As evidenced by the need to tell you that all you are to them is ... something ... that needs to be taught how to be, that you are so out of touch with reality, that you do not even know your NOT HAVING FUN, that what you think is FUN is really your dillusion, your reality check being bounced, that ONLY they are REAL people

Recognize post like these for what they are. Plain pointless Rhetoric. Making the same old Cliches as always. Being totally clueless as to what it is they are even saying.

The imperative for change.
The agent of change.

We see these all the time in all MMORPG's.

We see how things GET CHANGED. Things get changed by people taking a stand. ACTUALLY having something to say on the subject. Convincing the audience of the correctness of their position while their opponent files pointless rhetoric designed to attack the individual, demonstrating the belief that the audience is all about attacking people, demonstrating that they can NOT field any argument against what your saying so they resort to arguing about YOU. In this context you can NOT LOSE.

DO NOT be fooled by Day Care Psycho Babble Rhetoric, as exampled by the quoted post. Just give them the careful attention they deserve.

It is just there very best shot in their arsenal to try to stop you from effecting change.

I'm sorry but did I miss the line where you addressed my main point?(But of course I didnt miss it as you never addressed it lol. Like all your other posts your reply was a bunch of long-winded babble)
In defense of one your invalid posts you clearly stated that you "chose to play the Trammel play style" long ago. So I clearly stated that when you chose Trammel there were of course no powerscrolls and no 2x resources.
So what did you choose long ago?


Do you now wish to rechoose? Or would you prefer to just whine to the Devs to help you obtain something that you quite obviously are unable to obtain for yourself?

Wake up son and smell the world inside the MMORPG.

*Btw, how is your poll going? Didnt I already notice you trying to use psycho-babble to explain why it clearly isnt in your favor?*

 

[Connor_Graham]

I can't believe this argument is still going on even after the total loss of the OP in the poll.

What he fails to realize is that even "Trammies" are voting against him. Those of us that aren't jaded against the "big bad PvPrs" realize that PS's are the only PvP reward, and won't take that from them.

Funny that I've got every PS I've ever needed and never had to PvP once. I even got some great deals on a bunch of them by befriending a few members of a then prominent PvP guild, so that I was able to get my scrolls at a significant discount.

Ah well.

We'll see this come up again, and it will have the same result.

 

[Xamy]

in this poll you asked to remove the only two things, except pvp lovers,that still make felluca to live.
it's crazy asked to do a thing like that.If yuo want double resource take the risk and come to fell,if you want ps fight for them,if you want a got all easy and quick without no risk go play another game,because trammel have alredy ruined this game when is born

 

[THP]

I HOPE THE NEW SA DUNGEON HARROWER WILL BE TRAMMEL RULESET...Hence giving tram players a chance to AT LEAST ENJOY 1 HARROWER....the reds can keep the rest of em for me!!!!!

 

[Kaleb]

I bet you'd have a different opinion if they could force theirs on you.

And I wasnt forced to play a playstyle I dont enjoy with every expansion since UO:R? Seriously Threads like this its no wonder Trammies get griefed when in fell. Learn to play the game then you will have your shot at scrolls organize a group leave your worthless luck suit with no resists in candyland put together a real suit then maby you would get the scrolls you want, if not you better farm that mindless mob for the 20000th time and buy your scrolls.

 

[Wenchkin]

I HOPE THE NEW SA DUNGEON HARROWER WILL BE TRAMMEL RULESET...Hence giving tram players a chance to AT LEAST ENJOY 1 HARROWER....the reds can keep the rest of em for me!!!!!

We've had quite a few open harrowers on Europa specifically for RPers and Tram players to get in there. Pity you missed them - at least I don't remember seeing you there. But I'm sure you've found at least a couple of skulls in IDOC loot that you could donate to another harry. The opportunity for Tram players to do harrowers is there, just reach out and take it, rather than slapping the gift horse on the rump and demanding a Tram version.

I don't see the need to plonk a harry into a tram ruleset portion of SA. If anything, the Fel ruleset should get a nice chunk of content to itself to make up for the favoritism of Tram. Besides, harries without PvP and champs without PvP are boring mind-numbing events, which would get camped for a week, then once folks have their stash they'll sit deserted. Meanwhile Fel gets a kick in the shins to suit players like yourself. Nice... I hope we get decent new content, not some "Fel Light".

Wenchy

 

[ake]

I HOPE THE NEW SA DUNGEON HARROWER WILL BE TRAMMEL RULESET...Hence giving tram players a chance to AT LEAST ENJOY 1 HARROWER....the reds can keep the rest of em for me!!!!!

you can have your harry but forget the stat scroll!

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Well, you know you don't *need* those specific pets as a tamer.
....

If I distanced myself from all the crazy UO players, I'm not sure how many friends I'd still have
...

But I also see a lot of extreme tram views too - and who from Tram will tell them they're wrong?
...

Wenchy

Ok, I am not going to split the hair to "Need" you have your reasons, I have mine.

Crazy is not equal to destructive. Having a Bad Hair does not make one a bad person.

Fine you point me to to the Trammel posts, that are directly advocating the destruction of Felucca. Such as the recent series of posts.

Point me to Trammel posts that say the Feluccans are Insane and seriously deranged in their assertions that they enjoy the Feluccan way, That they (The Trammel Players) will TEACH them how to be REAL and have REAL fun, such as almost every post on any UO board has as the basic staple Day Care Psycho Babble Pablum Rehtorical Rant Reply by Feluccans.

 

[Kith Kanan]

nix , no , nope , never !!!!

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

...
There should be some unique reward for those people who choose to take on the added risk of the Fel ruleset.
...
...

If one were to concede your point, how does your point support the denial of these rewards to Trammel? As in the theory being that the ADVANCED UBER PLAYERS would only be in Felucca ANYWAY. Such that they would NEVR have an impact on Trammel.

Will your argument be that the only VALID risk one can take is to fight another player? If so, then your in essence saying that those that Find THEIR Entertainment value in PvM are invalid.

That would mean My PlayStyle is Valid YOURS is Invalid.

My Play Style is for REAL PEOPLE yours is totaly SO NOT RELEVANT.

Having the Power Scrolls (Stats and Skills) ONLY DROP in Felucca is in fact the definition of the Minority FORCING their Play Style on the Majority. This is apparent by virtue of saying "You can NOT get these things on your own, playing your own chosen play style. YOU MUST PLAY MY GAME OR YOU MUST BUY THEM".

IF Feluccans are NOT FORCING THEIR PLAY STYLE ON TRAMMEL, then why the resistance to letting Trammel get their OWN Power Scrolls?

Shall we really fall prey to the White Noise of "Oh, after a Week the Spawns will be 100% deserted for ever."

As though there are NO NEW players in Trammel (what ONLY IN FELUCCA?).

As though there are NO NEW characters being made in Trammel (what ONLY IN FELUCCA?)

The over all pattern of the Felucca Rhetoric is and always has been "If you do not play Felucca, your INSANE AND DO NOT COMPREHEND HOW MUCH YOU HATE YOURSELF AND THE WORLD. THAT IS IN FACT MY JOB TO TEACH YOU HOW TO BE A MAN, EVEN IF YOU ARE A WOMAN"

 

[The Home Guild]

I don't mind using fel for x2 resources... however powerscrolls would be nice to have a chance to get in trammel.Hot/vip/lnr whoever does fel champ spawns run it.. and we have to pay the 14+mils for 120 scrolls when most would love a chance to get one themselves to better up thier chars without spending millions upon millions.

Same goes for my homes.. most rather place thier own than spend 20m for 18x18 and i don't blame them.

Anyhow,just my 2 cents.

 

[Wenchkin]

Ok, I am not going to split the hair to "Need" you have your reasons, I have mine.

Crazy is not equal to destructive. Having a Bad Hair does not make one a bad person.

Fine you point me to to the Trammel posts, that are directly advocating the destruction of Felucca. Such as the recent series of posts.

Point me to Trammel posts that say the Feluccans are Insane and seriously deranged in their assertions that they enjoy the Feluccan way, That they (The Trammel Players) will TEACH them how to be REAL and have REAL fun, such as almost every post on any UO board has as the basic staple Day Care Psycho Babble Pablum Rehtorical Rant Reply by Feluccans.

Ok, now I'm not even sure you're typing in English. I think if anyone is babbling now it's not the Feluccans, it's you. I'm sorry, but you just don't make sense at times, this being one of them.

The simple truth is I live in Fel. Do you? How can You claim to know Fel players if you do just visit? From the sound of your posts you certainly aren't a Fel resident, nor have you run a player town there for over 8 years. So don't tell me what players around me are like when you neither know them or have lived in a similar situation over the years.

Secondly, it's very simple to understand how duplicating the few unique features of Fel would harm it. I'm not drawing diagrams. Look at the results of your poll and see for yourself what people think of your idea. I'm afraid you'll have to accept sooner or later that folks don't agree with you on this and just move on.

Wenchy

 

[nushpapa]

People have asked and it will never happen.. if it does i'd say a chunk of people would probably instantly quit. That in itself will stop EA from making these changes.

And reds have same rights as blues? umm r u dumb lol? Red characters can't go into 90% of the world... is that not enough? They can't be healed by blue healers etc... Blue characters (trammies) can access all lands be healed by red and blue healers. They also DO have access to power scrolls but are just to weak to get them... it isn't a game mechanical barrier its just a community/psycological barrier. Why should u trammies get everything when reds get nothing?

Remember you ALL have access to double resources and power scrolls... you just choose not to try get them... whose fault is that? yours, very simple. There is no discrimination you are all equal... except the reds(fine they r punished by now allowed to entering 90% of lands due to being a murder) so no nothing should change because it is all fair.

Why change what is not imbalanced or is a problem for people?

 

[Lily]

ahahah this is pathetic! go hunt some mobs to get the money to buy what u are unable to get by yourself, is an hard world and there is no reason to give to the trammy the last few things that keep fell active.

u don't like PVP ok... but i saw tons of bluebie raid felly and sometime they discover a new world and enjoy it or they run back in their trammy crib after 1s crying like you.

That's some awesome representin' dude.

Lily

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

...
Remember you ALL have access to double resources and power scrolls... you just choose not to try get them... whose fault is that?
...

The term Choice is obviously going to be perverted into obscurity. The concept of Choice is equally going to be perverted into obscurity.

Ok Nushpapa, you are in Felucca, you are absolutely alone ... well except the 100 People around you.

One steps forward and says "You are free to choose what ever you want to do. You have absolute free will here, NO ONE will force you to do anything you do NOT WANT TO DO."

Then proceeds to say, "Prepare to die, you can choose to fight all of us or you can choose to NOT fight all of us but either way you are going to die".

Now then Nushpapa, just exactly explain how you had total freedom to choose.

Choice is a word that can be as BIG as "I am alone in the world and can do what ever I want". It can be as small as the above scenario.

To tell some one that has rejected a Play Style that "NEEDS" to have an Item that can ONLY be gotten from the place they have REJECTED is NOT giving them ANY REAL CHOICE.

Those that assert that Trammel players have choice is being as disingenuous and cynical as the individual in my Scenario.

 

[hen]

You're like Fayled Dreams only even less intelligible.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Ok Nushpapa, you are in Felucca, you are absolutely alone ... well except the 100 People around you.

One steps forward and says "You are free to choose what ever you want to do. You have absolute free will here, NO ONE will force you to do anything you do NOT WANT TO DO."
Then proceeds to say, "Prepare to die, you can choose to fight all of us or you can choose to NOT fight all of us but either way you are going to die".

Now then Nushpapa, just exactly explain how you had total freedom to choose.

You could have chosen to stay in the guard zones around many towns and lumberjack & mine all you want. If anyone attacked you all you'd have to do is say Guard and they'd be insta-killed, and you'd still be alive. Pretty simple there.

To tell some one that has rejected a Play Style that "NEEDS" to have an Item that can ONLY be gotten from the place they have REJECTED is NOT giving them ANY REAL CHOICE. Those that think they have choice is being as disingenuous and cynical as the individual in my Scenario.

The same can be said about these playstyles:

PvM'rs- Have no means to obtain runics so they would be FORCED to become crafters to get them AND use them, even though the products they create are used only in either PvM or PvP.

Crafters- Have no means to obtain artifacts so they would be FORCED to become PvM'rs to get them.

PvP'rs- Have no means to obtain runics OR artifacts, so they would be FORCED to become both PvM'rs AND Crafters to get them.


Every playstyle has it's own unique rewards that other playstyles have the CHOICE of either embracing a different playstyle long enough to obtain what they're after OR they can use their own playstyle to earn enough gold to BUY the wanted items from those whose playstyle is rewarded with those items.

It's a choice, whether you want to admit it or not. Either do what it takes to get the items yourself, or buy them from those who do.

It's up to you.

 

[Surgeries]

Hey!

Let's do this!

Put a copy of Doom Dungeon in Fel!

Let Reds get Artis in Fel!

Put a copy of Tokuno Land up for Fel Only! Let Reds go to Travesty!!

Put a copy Twisted Weald & a copy of Illshenar land up for Fel Only!

Let Reds go do Dreadhorn!!

Give a copy of ALL of the current Rulesets to Fel, and then...

Put Powerscrolls and Stat Scrolls in Trammel, too.

There.

Everyone can have everything they want, and play the way they want to.

Nothing forced on anyone, and no one can ever say again (In the best Cartman voice possible) "But...but...Moooooom!!! THEY get all the good stuff, and I don't get anything!!"