Speedhacking, Duping, UMing ~Cheating - they all need to go bye-bye asap

[RoycroftLS]

Stating an opinion on a thread that asked people for their opinion is a big uproar? I guess for those that don't want to hear any opinions other than their own that might be the case.

Stating an opinion is one thing. Replying to every post with a wall of text is another. You have every right to have your opinion, but when you repeatedly imply that people are inferior for playing the game as intended, what reaction do you expect?

And yes, breaking a rule is breaking a rule. But, as stated several times, some rules are just not fitting. Especially 'game' rules. And especially especially those rules that are made to prevent things that really don't impact anyone else.

So some rules are more applicable than others? You're sounding like Animal Farm now, and that's not a good thing. Just because some people are smart enough to break the rules doesn't make them better than everyone else. It makes them cheaters, that's all.

But, as I said before, don't let the actual words I use get in the way of your rant. Keep on going with it and make up things as you see fit that you can claim I said or meant or thought or whichever. Won't devalue me in the least.

Most of your arguments rely on nitpicking the structure of people's points rather than addressing their content. I don't think I'm the one ranting here.

 

[D'Amavir]

If you have 12+ hours a day to do it manually that's fine go ahead but if your running a Bot, while dual clienting and playing a character on another account...then No that's not alright. It's not a matter of what resources you acquire it's that you get the reward (resources/bod rewards/gold) proper for the amount of work you actually sit there and do in game. Scripts do not result in a proper reward vs time vested experience, they are rarely attended which is the same as afk macroing so no time is actually vested by the player...Your saying that they should get the reward without doing any of the work.

Therein lies your problem. You equate some personal need for 'work' to be involved in your game while others see the game as just that, a game. I don't care what 'work' you put into getting your resources. I don't care what 'work' you put into leveling your character. I play this game to have fun. Fun to me is not click click clicking a million times for limited enjoyment. It may be for you, and as I said, more power to ya. But I don't need 'work' in my games. I want enjoyment in them.

Now it's not up to us to decide what the proper reward vs time is, it's the developers they decide what they feel is best for the overall game play. Nothing we can do will change that we don't own Mythic, we don't set the rules but if we want to play on their service then we might as well sit down and recognize that there are penalties that they decide on for violating the rules they deemed best for the game.

And its up to enterprising players to come up with ways to get around the design flaws of the game. As stated, if they came up with a way to reduce the click click clicking required for certain tasks, fewer people would support those tools that help remove the click click clicking. Since, you dont need a tool that click click clicks for you if you aren't required to click click click to begin with now do you?

You mentioned the Seat belt laws...The government said "Wear your seat belt it's the law" and you decide you don't agree with it..fine don't wear one but don't come complaining when you get a ticket. You didn't make the law, you may not have supported the law but you better obey it or pay the penalty that's your only 2 options. OSI, EA, EA/Mythic and now Mythic have always said "No non-approved 3rd party programs". They did this for a reason they aren't stupid they knew just like the politicians that made the seat belt law that not everyone would agree or follow it but for the overall whole its a better decision. I understand why they did it I used to not agree with the seat belt law but I followed it. When I got in an accident and rolled my car 3 1/2 times and walked away without a scratch it was because of the seat belt.

As expected, you missed the point completely. Its not a matter of 'you choose to break the rule so dont complain if you get punished for it' and more a matter of 'why is there a rule against something that has no negative impact on others'. As for your accident, had you been wearing your seat belt or not wearing your seat belt, the results of the crash would have had zero impact on me. Thus, my statement that having the law in the first place isn't needed. If you choose to not wear a seat belt, then you choose to accept what happens if you don't. There shouldn't be a law requiring you to wear one though. Because you not wearing them has no impact on others. Not sure how much clearer I can make that concept.

Just because I didn't agree with it didn't mean it wasn't the best thing for me, same thing here...just because you don't agree with the no script what so ever policy, your opinions may not be what's best for the whole of UO.

I don't play UO for the enjoyment of others. I play it for my enjoyment. And, unless I am doing something that actually impacts another person, my enjoyment is really all that should matter to me. You don't see me whining that they should ban people that don't use 2d for example. I choose to use it myself but other people using KR has zero impact on me. However, certain people are constantly whining about the fact that other people are doing something that they aren't. Even when that something has no impact onthem whatsoever.

 

[D'Amavir]

Stating an opinion is one thing. Replying to every post with a wall of text is another. You have every right to have your opinion, but when you repeatedly imply that people are inferior for playing the game as intended, what reaction do you expect?

You mean I shouldn't reply to people like you that quote things I said and make comments about it using the wall of text found below? Indeed.

So some rules are more applicable than others? You're sounding like Animal Farm now, and that's not a good thing. Just because some people are smart enough to break the rules doesn't make them better than everyone else. It makes them cheaters, that's all.

Maybe you should read my wall of texts that you claim I make. Since I never said anything about anyone being better than anyone else.

Most of your arguments rely on nitpicking the structure of people's points rather than addressing their content. I don't think I'm the one ranting here.

Structure? Who cares about the structure? Not me. Try making a point instead of just falling back on the 'its a rule so its right' mentality once in a while people. When people claim that certain things impact them then refuse to even discuss how it impacts them then, yes, I will question it. Especially when they quote me over and over trying to make points that no one else is even disputing.

 

[RoycroftLS]

In that case, all macro's should be removed. I can create a certain macro in UO itself that allows me to train a skill without being attended. So, using your logic, all macros should be removed because there is a possibility for it to be abused. The same can be said for anything really. Drugs used for pain relief. Can be abused. Get rid of them. Booze. Can be abused. Get rid of it. Guns. Can be abused. Get rid of them. Sticks can be used to hit people. Get rid of them. And so on and so on.

If EA can't come up with a way to limit unattended macro'ing without damaging those that macro attended only then maybe they need to try a little harder instead of just throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

You have repeatedly asked how macroing poisoning gives a person an advantage, and I gave an exact scenario. I didn't make any implications or conclusions about the scenario. If you can create a macro in game that allows a person to be fully unattended while training poisoning, without any outside help, then that would apply to what I said.

But you are still the one making the generalizations and jumps in logic. Stop putting words into my mouth.

 

[AesSedai]

(Not to crush your amusement, nor to compel you to 'debate' your opinion more... but you might want to stop typing so much or all of those click, click, clicks might bring-about this horrible carpal tunnel syndrome thing which you speak of & seem so concerned about. I bet you could've manually gm'd poisoning by now if all of your keystrokes from this thread alone were applied to the 'work' and enjoyment of gm'ing poisoning in that game we like called UO.
Oh yeah, I manually gm'd poisoning and taming & realized it would take me less than 1 minute a day for ~6 months to raise taming, or any skill, from 100 to 120.)

OT some? grrr: Your seat belt law issue: You die in an accident then that causes guilt for the person you had an accident with. You get severely injured because you think seat belts are silly then the rest of us have to pay more insurance premiums because the chances of severe injury have increased. I could bring up more examples... but this OT defense stuff is.. tiresome.

 

[D'Amavir]

You have repeatedly asked how macroing poisoning gives a person an advantage, and I gave an exact scenario. I didn't make any implications or conclusions about the scenario. If you can create a macro in game that allows a person to be fully unattended while training poisoning, without any outside help, then that would apply to what I said.

I didn't ask how unattended macro'ing to GM poisoning could impact you. No more than I asked how training poisoning manually using duped DP kegs impacts you. Neither of those instances are in question.

But you are still the one making the generalizations and jumps in logic. Stop putting words into my mouth.

Your words. Again, you added 'unattended' to 'macroing' because you wanted to prove a point no one is disputing. I never once asked you how unattended macro'ing impacted you. If I did, then I apologize. Because that question was never one that I wanted answered. I wanted, and still want, to know how macro'ing skill so and so instead of manually click click clicking it impacts anyone. And I still, and probably won't, see an answer to that.

If you want me to stop responding,its pretty simple. Stop quoting what i say and trying to make points around it. If its important enough for you to quote and comment on, why is it not ok for it to be important enough for me to respond to? That goes for anyone trying to toss out the 'you shouldnt be posting your opinion' comments instead of trying to make any points.

 

[RoycroftLS]

Try making a point instead of just falling back on the 'its a rule so its right' mentality once in a while people. When people claim that certain things impact them then refuse to even discuss how it impacts them then, yes, I will question it. Especially when they quote me over and over trying to make points that no one else is even disputing.

I never claimed that all the rules were fair or just. I'm simply saying that all the rules need to be obeyed at all times for there to be a point in playing the game.

One of the key underlying principles of online gaming is that everyone has a fair chance to play the game, as dictated by the rules. Right now that is not the case in UO, mostly because some people view the rules as arbitrary guidelines.

And just for the record, you have been disputed a number of times. But when you repeatedly use the "proof by intimidation" approach to debating, few people have the time or dedication to find the salient points in each post and try to form a response.

Just because you write the most words, or ask the most questions, or have the most time to discuss the subject doesn't mean your opinion is automatically the correct one.

 

[D'Amavir]

(Not to crush your amusement, nor to compel you to 'debate' your opinion more... but you might want to stop typing so much or all of those click, click, clicks might bring-about this horrible carpal tunnel syndrome thing which you speak of & seem so concerned about. I bet you could've manually gm'd poisoning by now if all of your keystrokes from this thread alone were applied to the 'work' and enjoyment of gm'ing poisoning in that game we like called UO.
Oh yeah, I manually gm'd poisoning and taming & realized it would take me less than 1 minute a day for ~6 months to raise taming, or any skill, from 100 to 120.)

No need for me to manually gm poisoning now. I have one gm poisoner at least on each of my three accounts. And I know that that fact just ruins the game for some people since my having it sooooo impacts them. As for the click click clicking, I type much more in game than I do on any board. As I said, I am a rp'er. So my characters say a lot. I could type for a year straight and not be bothered by it since its a necessary evil in order to have words show up that you want expressed. Having to do so in game, however, isn't required. Regardless of the design flaws the game has. They fix those flaws, they cut down the number of people that rely on other tools to fix those flaws. Simple, easy to understand and to the point.

 

[D'Amavir]

I never claimed that all the rules were fair or just. I'm simply saying that all the rules need to be obeyed at all times for there to be a point in playing the game.

One of the key underlying principles of online gaming is that everyone has a fair chance to play the game, as dictated by the rules. Right now that is not the case in UO, mostly because some people view the rules as arbitrary guidelines.

And just for the record, you have been disputed a number of times. But when you repeatedly use the "proof by intimidation" approach to debating, few people have the time or dedication to find the salient points in each post and try to form a response.

Just because you write the most words, or ask the most questions, or have the most time to discuss the subject doesn't mean your opinion is automatically the correct one.

If you are intimidated by someone asking you to explain your comments, then as I said to others, maybe the online world isnt for you. Simple questions can usually be answered with simple answers. Not my fault that people that want to quote me can't seem to provide any simple answers. At least not the questions that I ask.

I don't ask the most questions either. I asked one. And it still hasn't been answered. Not by you, not by any other the other fans that love to quote me out there. I won't ask it again since it seems to be impossible to answer. I will just toss out the answer that everyone knows but won't say, you can figure out the question yourself.

"It doesn't"

There ya go. Nuff said. Keep quoting me if you want to continue this discussion. I won't mind. But if you feel that me responding to you responding to me is intimidation, maybe you should just stop responding to me.

 

[AesSedai]

Btw, there is nothing wrong with legally macroing & that includes to gm poisoning.
Now, if you want to understand why breaking the rules (using illegal macroing programs and / or even including unattended macroing) is bad for the game and has affected all of us, then I just posted about that a few minutes ago.

This thread was meant to be about cheating; including ways to improve the situation as well as possible ways to prevent it. As well, it was meant to bring attention to the Devs that this issue is just as important as any other new additions to our game.

I could care less if you feel above the rules or if you want to argue the merits of legally macroing versus strictly manually playing the game.
Perhaps make your own thread if you want to debate such things?

 

[D'Amavir]

Btw, there is nothing wrong with legally macroing & that includes to gm poisoning.
Now, if you want to understand why breaking the rules (using illegal macroing programs and / or even including unattended macroing) is bad for the game and has affected all of us, then I just posted about that a few minutes ago.

Reread a few of your last few posts and didn't see where you said that macro'ing a skill impacts you. Must have missed it. Which post number was that so I can rereread it?

This thread was meant to be about cheating; including ways to improve the situation as well as possible ways to prevent it. As well, it was meant to bring attention to the Devs that this issue is just as important as any other new additions to our game.

And I discussed ways to improve it. The Devs coming up with a way to cut down on the click click clicking that people hate so badly that they end up using 'illegal' third party tools is a way to cut a lot of it out.

I could care less if you feel above the rules or if you want to argue the merits of legally macroing versus strictly manually playing the game.
Perhaps make your own thread if you want to debate such things?

As soon as my fans stop quoting me or asking me questions (such as yourself) then I won't need to continue responding to said posts. If I read someone's opinion that macro'ing is inherently evil then, yes, I will post my opinion on the matter. I haven't insulted anyone nor I have broken any of the rules of this board. I have expressed my opinions in the face of several people telling me what a bad person I was for having those opinons. By the way, you disagreeing with me isn't intimidating me in the least. As my disagreeing with you shouldn't intimidate you. Just wanted to get that out of the way since people seem to be intimidated by those that don't agree with them.

 

[RoycroftLS]

I don't ask the most questions either. I asked one. And it still hasn't been answered. Not by you, not by any other the other fans that love to quote me out there. I won't ask it again since it seems to be impossible to answer. I will just toss out the answer that everyone knows but won't say, you can figure out the question yourself.

"It doesn't"

There ya go. Nuff said. Keep quoting me if you want to continue this discussion. I won't mind. But if you feel that me responding to you responding to me is intimidation, maybe you should just stop responding to me.

I never said I was intimidated. I used the phrase proof by intimidation.

No one really disputes the fact that if you sit there and attentively watch a script run to gain in a skill, and don't do anything else but sit there and watch it run, then you don't have an advantage over a normal player who chooses to click. Other than not getting carpal tunnel syndrome, that is.

But look at the modifiers in that statement. Namely, "attentively watch" and "don't do anything else". If at any time you fail to meet either of those guidelines, you are gaining a serious advantage over someone playing the game normally.

I haven't heard you give a justifiable reason to dispute that, nor have I heard you provide evidence that there is even a small minority of the playerbase that chooses to script while following those guidelines. What's the point of vehemently trying to prove that a playstyle is valid if hardly anyone uses that playstyle?

 

[AesSedai]

In answer to your question: post #99

I'm not trying to intimidate, nor have I felt intimidated, heh.

Now as to whether you have been insulting (perhaps by comparing cheating in a game to a United States amendment that allows equal voting rights, or by some of your other far-fetched comparisons...), well all I know is that I have not been insulted, because that is pretty hard for anyone to accomplish on a message board (and that is why I rarely report what could be termed offensive posts); but I have suggested you might take your stray thoughts, that have often been unrelated to the subject at hand, somewhere else if you want to keep at it.

 

[D'Amavir]

I never said I was intimidated. I used the phrase proof by intimidation.

No one really disputes the fact that if you sit there and attentively watch a script run to gain in a skill, and don't do anything else but sit there and watch it run, then you don't have an advantage over a normal player who chooses to click. Other than not getting carpal tunnel syndrome, that is.

But look at the modifiers in that statement. Namely, "attentively watch" and "don't do anything else". If at any time you fail to meet either of those guidelines, you are gaining a serious advantage over someone playing the game normally.

I haven't heard you give a justifiable reason to dispute that, nor have I heard you provide evidence that there is even a small minority of the playerbase that chooses to script while following those guidelines. What's the point of vehemently trying to prove that a playstyle is valid if hardly anyone uses that playstyle?

I won't dispute that in its entirety, no. Because I agree. However, the 'don't do anything else' thing I don't agree with. Because of the huge macro's you can make with UOA, you can conceivable create a macro that runs long enough for you to walk off to get a drink. Technically, that would be unattended macro'ing. And done without any illegal tools.

 

[Nexus]

Therein lies your problem. You equate some personal need for 'work' to be involved in your game while others see the game as just that, a game. I don't care what 'work' you put into getting your resources. I don't care what 'work' you put into leveling your character. I play this game to have fun. Fun to me is not click click clicking a million times for limited enjoyment. It may be for you, and as I said, more power to ya. But I don't need 'work' in my games. I want enjoyment in them.

Then I don't see how you can justify the reward (in this case fun) for not putting in any effort. If your child disobeys and doesn't clean his room do you give him a present for it?

And its up to enterprising players to come up with ways to get around the design flaws of the game. As stated, if they came up with a way to reduce the click click clicking required for certain tasks, fewer people would support those tools that help remove the click click clicking. Since, you dont need a tool that click click clicks for you if you aren't required to click click click to begin with now do you?

Where is it the players place to define what is a flaw and what was intended? It's not you can question those things but once it's answered by the developers then well there's your answer. And not making way in game to get rid of half the clicking wouldn't help. KR does this with crafting but it's not been widely accepted, people scripting on a large scale which is the core issue this thread is about don't care if Mythic puts tools in the client or not because they can have a bot do what ever on auto pilot without having to vest any time to yield the rewards while enjoying their "Fun" time on another account. Everyone should be expected to follow the rules regardless of if their personal violation of them has a large impact or not...that's kind of the basis of a rule...

As expected, you missed the point completely. Its not a matter of 'you choose to break the rule so dont complain if you get punished for it' and more a matter of 'why is there a rule against something that has no negative impact on others'. As for your accident, had you been wearing your seat belt or not wearing your seat belt, the results of the crash would have had zero impact on me. Thus, my statement that having the law in the first place isn't needed. If you choose to not wear a seat belt, then you choose to accept what happens if you don't. There shouldn't be a law requiring you to wear one though. Because you not wearing them has no impact on others. Not sure how much clearer I can make that concept.

Your missing the point that regardless of if your choice impacts others or not others using the same types of actions can impact others. For years Heroin was a Medicinal drug, just because say you didn't form an addiction to it does that mean they were not right to outlaw and put a ban on it?

I don't play UO for the enjoyment of others. I play it for my enjoyment. And, unless I am doing something that actually impacts another person, my enjoyment is really all that should matter to me. You don't see me whining that they should ban people that don't use 2d for example. I choose to use it myself but other people using KR has zero impact on me. However, certain people are constantly whining about the fact that other people are doing something that they aren't. Even when that something has no impact on them whatsoever.

Oh So UO is all about you.....Read Massively Multi-player Online Role Playing Game. Unless your RP a hermit you can't say anything you do in game has no impact on anyone else.

 

[D'Amavir]

In answer to your question: post #99

If the devs are using their time to eliminate macro'ing capabilities (as you suggest in 99, instead of using their time to eliminate the NEED for those capabilities, then they are focuses on the wrong areas. As I have said in the past, if they fixed the need for the click click clicking then fewer people would support tools that helped with the click click clicking.

I'm not trying to intimidate, nor have I felt intimidated, heh.

Good to hear. As is common, words read on a board do not clearly express the feeling or personality behind them. Having an opinion that differs from your own does not always equal someone trying to insult in other words.

Now as to whether you have been insulting (perhaps by comparing cheating in a game to a United States amendment that allows equal voting rights, or by some of your other far-fetched comparisons...), well all I know is that I have not been insulted, because that is pretty hard for anyone to accomplish on a message board (and that is why I rarely report what could be termed offensive posts); but I have suggested you might take your stray thoughts, that have often been unrelated to the subject at hand, somewhere else if you want to keep at it.

I thought the subject was about cheating and such. Perhaps I was mistaken by the subject line reading "Speedhacking, Duping, UMing ~Cheating - they all need to go bye-bye asap". My bad. Since so many people seemed to jump up and quote me when I posted my views I assumed that my views were part of the subject at hand. Perhaps you should direct your suggestion to those that choose to continue to quote me and discuss my views if you want those views limited.

Its only fair that I be able to respond to people that quote me and comment on my opinions. You don't agree?

 

[D'Amavir]

Then I don't see how you can justify the reward (in this case fun) for not putting in any effort. If your child disobeys and doesn't clean his room do you give him a present for it?

No. But if he went online and found some cheats to help him get past a level I wouldn't ground him for that either. Its a game after all. Now, if he cheated in school? That's another story entirely. Because, as you might know, that's real life.

Where is it the players place to define what is a flaw and what was intended?

A flaw in my enjoyment of the game is a flaw in the game to me. Thus, I consider the click click clicking a flaw. Many others do as well.

And not making way in game to get rid of half the clicking wouldn't help. KR does this with crafting but it's not been widely accepted, people scripting on a large scale which is the core issue this thread is about don't care if Mythic puts tools in the client or not because they can have a bot do what ever on auto pilot without having to vest any time to yield the rewards while enjoying their "Fun" time on another account. Everyone should be expected to follow the rules regardless of if their personal violation of them has a large impact or not...that's kind of the basis of a rule...

Some people have enough free thought to realize that some rules shouldn't really be rules. Not everyone blindly follows every rule set in front of them. Thus, the real world examples of people breaking rules because they believed those rules were flawed.

Your missing the point that regardless of if your choice impacts others or not others using the same types of actions can impact others. For years Heroin was a Medicinal drug, just because say you didn't form an addiction to it does that mean they were not right to outlaw and put a ban on it?

Correct. I feel that drug laws are flawed completely. Why should you have the right to tell me what I can and can't put in my body? Alchohol is legal. Its a drug. It can be abused. But it is allowed under current laws. Heroin is a drug. It can be abused. But it is not allowed. Why? Its my body to do with as I wish as long as it don't impact others. Now, before more people whine about the real world examples, I wasn't the one that brought the real world up this time.

Oh So UO is all about you.....Read Massively Multi-player Online Role Playing Game. Unless your RP a hermit you can't say anything you do in game has no impact on anyone else.

Right. Multiplayer. Other players should be able to do what they want even though it might not be something I enjoy. And, like I said, if my title of GM Assassin really impacts you, UO just might not be for you. Your title, regardless of what that title might be, does not. Nor do any of the skills you have manually trained up. Unless you use a bug to get boosted skill points available to you, we all end up with the same amount so yours don't matter to me in the least. Nor does the process you used to gain them.

 

[AesSedai]

The rules are in place for a reason.
If you break them you are cheating.

The only way people will not have to click, click, for skill gain is if UO live servers become what the UO test servers are. And even then people will be using illegal programs to automate other tasks.

Do you not agree?

As the title subject of my thread suggests, I am not hear to debate the validity of some rules that some of us might disagree with. The truth is that I saw someone spamming a bunch of other threads with their dislike for speedhacking & I chose to create a new thread that expanded on that desire.

I can make a macro using UO alone that could run while I was unattended. But... unattended macroing is against the rules.

Back to the original topic:
These rule-breakings need to go bye-bye.
What can be done to make that happen?

Change the rules?
YES - that is one option.

Make UO a set skill = 120 world?
YES - there is a second option.

So, now:
Any other ideas?

 

[Sheridan]

Just a reminder: Discussion is fine. Point-counterpoint is fine. Disagreeing with one another is fine. Troll troll trolling is not. Thank you.

 

[UOKaiser]

Just to add remmember everybody it is a game. If you take it to a higher level than that then I dont know what to say. With the rules discussion or the way people meant to play the game I will bring up 1 very important thing up,up,down,down,left,right,left,right,B,A,Start.

 

[Fink]

Also sumhow ppl can make the house sign words red...

At one point, briefly, you used to be able to put hypertext in your house name, books, runes, anything you could name, so you could change the font, colour, etc of the words. I have a few runebooks with red titles, plus a rune with text coloured similar to this guy --> .

They stopped allowing these < > characters in names, not sure if they took the hypertext thing out all together or just forbade those two chars (the latter seems more likely, it's a UO-styled quick-fix). Try putting < or > into anything you can name, they come out like ( or ).

Not sure why hypertext was forbidden, guess for the same reason URL's aren't allowed..

 

[Nexus]

The rules are in place for a reason.
If you break them you are cheating.

The only way people will not have to click, click, for skill gain is if UO live servers become what the UO test servers are. And even then people will be using illegal programs to automate other tasks.

Do you not agree?

As the title subject of my thread suggests, I am not hear to debate the validity of some rules that some of us might disagree with. The truth is that I saw someone spamming a bunch of other threads with their dislike for speedhacking & I chose to create a new thread that expanded on that desire.

I can make a macro using UO alone that could run while I was unattended. But... unattended macroing is against the rules.

Back to the original topic:
These rule-breakings need to go bye-bye.
What can be done to make that happen?

Change the rules?
YES - that is one option.

Make UO a set skill = 120 world?
YES - there is a second option.

So, now:
Any other ideas?

Find ways to be more pro-active in finding and removing Scripters, Speedhackers from the game environment. Paging on the as players only goes so far, when you page on a UMing player and 12 hours later a GM still hasn't replied even given you the canned response and the person in question has finally logged half an hour before it's pointless. Built in Safeguards to help stop scripting could be done within the client though, the biggest of the Scripting programs is Open Source meaning all these wonderful programmers working on UO should be able to read over it's source code, and find a way to block it from the accessing the client. I don't care if it's just one of them doing it while the others continue business as usual it's worth looking into. How do I know it's open source? I've gone to their forums asking them to build in a block to prevent it from working with Mythics Servers in the past.

It was mentioned bringing the Counselors back by the staff at the last town hall. Bring them back, tell them calls on Scripters/UMing players are their priority and let them jail or flag the accounts for review. For Duping they could help also, have an addition put in allowing Vendors Inventories to be polled so the vendor can be flagged by a Smurf for review if they deem it plausible that a dupe may be in effect in the creation of the items.

Clean up the Server side Coding, and modernize it. Yes it's a 10 year old game but that doesn't mean the code has to be archaic. Set someone to systematically rewriting the entire server code, with a means for it to load the current save format in addition to what ever it would be using for it's own saves. Put in new encryption methods for the data and patch these methods into the clients this would break most Dupes, and scripting engines as a side benefit a reporting system like I mentioned before could be built into it, errors would be easier to track down in a more modern language, the code could be properly commented as it was re-written and unused snippets and no longer needed/in effect portions could be removed all for the benefit of future work being simplfied... This would facilitate easier tweaks for almost everything if a new modern language was used and the new talent on the scene wouldn't be pouring over out of date coding techniques. This would also allow for more expansion on the game as modern languages are more flexible than what was common place even 5 years ago. 10 years of developers have had their hands on UO, every one that writes code has their own little habits be it a way of commenting things or different methods to achieve the same end. How much confusion can and does this cause?

 

[Harlequin]

If I'm not mistaken I believe I heard them say that they manually check through printouts to try and identify duped items. Why spend Huge amounts of time manually pouring over logs and databases trying to find items when for goodness sake these people are programmers...have a program written you can feed the files into it scans and flags certain items and spits out the info for them to check...It would reduce the hours spent investigating by a ton.

Ah, so that confirms the human intervention. Regarding the pouring over logs, unless they are cyborgs and have implanted computers, digital scanner eyes, and relational database headware installed, I doubt that they go though the entire database of billions of items directly.

I think they have programs that as you said - spits out the info for them to check. This is the report printout that they are checking. Instead of looking at the screen at reports, sometimes people prefer printing reports out on paper.

They probably could have worded it better in this case.

 

[Harlequin]

Just to add remmember everybody it is a game. If you take it to a higher level than that then I dont know what to say. With the rules discussion or the way people meant to play the game I will bring up 1 very important thing up,up,down,down,left,right,left,right,B,A,Start.

NES - Delta force cheat. But I can't remember what it does...all weapons or extra lives?

However, that's a built in cheat, not 3rd party

 

[AesSedai]

- I'm pretty sure it was for Super Mario...
(and I think it was AB, AB at the end; but maybe that wasn't the first NES 'cheat')

But you are right that a singleplayer 'cheat' that was coded into the game prior to release, or even accidentally left in,
has nothing at all to do with a multiplayer game...

(I respond because it has always irked me that game companies took the buzz term of 'cheating' and ran with it; they should have called them 'hints' or 'help for those that can't cope' or 'things to do when you get bored with the game' or 'ways to milk more money ~ enjoyment out of the game'...)

But I digress, cheating in a single player game ~like Solitaire, is completely irrelevant to the act of cheating in a multiplayer, persistent-state, game.
~ I agree w/ Harlequin.

 

[UOKaiser]

- I'm pretty sure it was for Super Mario...
(and I think it was AB, AB at the end; but maybe that wasn't the first NES 'cheat')

But you are right that a singleplayer 'cheat' that was coded into the game prior to release, or even accidentally left in,
has nothing at all to do with a multiplayer game...

(I respond because it has always irked me that game companies took the buzz term of 'cheating' and ran with it; they should have called them 'hints' or 'help for those that can't cope' or 'things to do when you get bored with the game' or 'ways to milk more money ~ enjoyment out of the game'...)

But I digress, cheating in a single player game ~like Solitaire, is completely irrelevant to the act of cheating in a multiplayer, persistent-state, game.
~ I agree w/ Harlequin.

Actually it is the most infamous Konami cheat for contra 99 extra lives 2 players can play the game so in a way its multiplayer. But then it was game genie who went beyond any inbuilt cheats or mistakes and then there was all those strategy guides to get certain things that you can't without having one of those guides.

In large multiplayer online games cheats exist for everything from diablo to neverwinter nights, halo 2, starcraft etc... Theres whole servers dedicated to playing the game how its not supposed to. Then comes the multitude of mods which many online games allow and encourage cause it brings the modders community to them. Would be kind of nice to make a uo server with robots or a apocalypse theme .
The uo 3rd party programs some interact with the stream which they can do things about others dont interact with the stream and control your client options. Microsft office programs or using basic macro base programs even speech recognition can work as well in theory. Using keyboards inbuilt software functions etc..etc.. What can EA really do except shut down there servers and let the ahmm the other servers not controled by them take over.

Oh and those games back then were tough extremly challenging to actually finish the game whith 3 lives and the 5 continues. Hell the games that dont make it to the usa the japanese games that stay over there are incredibly diffcult beyond most any State wide games

 

[AesSedai]

- Cool.
(I SO remember game genie, & calling many of my friends 'punks' for resorting to that, hehe; they knew they were but most didn't admit it. Now, they know they were because they cheated themselves out of some solid entertainment )

But those were single player / harmless to others -games (and I'm almost positive Super Mario had the same.. 'easter eggs' of bonuses).

We are playing a multi-player game here. A persistent-state one, too. Cheating has an affect on everyone else involved in the game.

All that the UO Devs can possibly do is try to circumvent cheating as much as possible before people get sick of the unfait playing field and quit.
And this isn't like playing a multiplayer game on a card table, where I can verbally or physically (for lack of a better term, atm) reprimand you for cheating... we are dependent on the GM's (CSR) to police this game for us.

So how can we help improve this distinct situation of cheating in a game?

Perhaps it is a losing battle; but surely we can help keep the game going, rather than give up and accept that cheaters will continue to win...
I was recently told that (it is a losing battle); but you know what, life is too: from the day we are born we are destined to lose, because we will die. But what we do in-the-between can make quite a difference, regarding everything.

 

[UOKaiser]

- Cool.
(I SO remember game genie, & calling many of my friends 'punks' for resorting to that, hehe; they knew they were but most didn't admit it. Now, they know they were because they cheated themselves out of some solid entertainment )

But those were single player / harmless to others -games (and I'm almost positive Super Mario had the same.. 'easter eggs' of bonuses).

We are playing a multi-player game here. A persistent-state one, too. Cheating has an affect on everyone else involved in the game.

All that the UO Devs can possibly do is try to circumvent cheating as much as possible before people get sick of the unfait playing field and quit.
And this isn't like playing a multiplayer game on a card table, where I can verbally or physically (for lack of a better term, atm) reprimand you for cheating... we are dependent on the GM's (CSR) to police this game for us.

So how can we help improve this distinct situation of cheating in a game?

Perhaps it is a losing battle; but surely we can help keep the game going, rather than give up and accept that cheaters will continue to win...
I was recently told that (it is a losing battle); but you know what, life is too: from the day we are born we are destined to lose, because we will die. But what we do in-the-between can make quite a difference, regarding everything.

I used to love all those games though wouldnt call it harmless because back in the days i remmeber playing baseball stars and bases loaded street fighter mortal kombat hell any vs game even made stats for the sports game hand written from our players and we used to bet cash on winners and losers. Not to mention the arcade machines and the massive betting we had on those. Though something I resulted to nothing can be done if you stop anytype of cheating in one way then a more improved way will be developed to cheat just for the challenge to be the first to do it then the cycle goes on.

Dupes i can say is very damaging its a horrible way to cheat messes up merchants but benefits players as they can buy things for nearly nothing which i and many others prefer to keep the high prices up on hard to receive objects and rares not to resort our hard earn or accomplish to nothing. Though ea does that too by nerfing hard earn items which also messes things up.

Exploits involving dupes the same. Exploits involving pvp also horrible. exploits involving eye candy or getting a non powering sword from a character that you normaly cant get well thats neat a new rare on the market.

Attended scripters thats legal dont care.

Unattended Scripters dont effect the market enough for me to care unless there scripting to harass me which usualy are just immature players doing the harrasing cause they find enjoyment in ruin someone else enjoyment and know i cant fling them over a fence into a ditch.

 

[Harlequin]

Actually it is the most infamous Konami cheat for contra 99 extra lives 2 players can play the game so in a way its multiplayer. But then it was game genie who went beyond any inbuilt cheats or mistakes and then there was all those strategy guides to get certain things that you can't without having one of those guides.

Ahh yes, that's the one I was talking about! Thanks for correcting me, I keep forgetting it was renamed to Contra.



Forgive my stealing the 2 player scenario and using it as an analogy -

1) So in this multi-player environment, if player 1 has 99 lives and not player 2, then player 2 is at a slight disadvantage, yes? Can't remember if there's a continue option, but points-wise, player 2 will have less points since his/her score will probably be reset to 0 if the continue option is used (in UO terms this would be akin to using give arties/resources on a prod shard to save time/resources. maybe the devs accidentally turned it on for a day and player 1 finds out about it)

2) Now, if neither cares about the score and both just want to play it to have a great time, no problems (likewise in UO, there are people that could care less if others cheat)

3) However, what if the score allows you to buy/upgrade to better weapons? In this case player 2 lose out a bit more (in UO terms, player 1 makes tons of scrappers, pendants etc)

4) Both people play the game to have fun, but now player 1 probably feels that he is having more fun. Player 2 probably also feels that player 1 is having more fun, and starts asking, hey, how come player 1 is having more fun than I am because he cheats? (sort of like what people mean regarding cheating having an affect on everyone else)

5) At this point, player 2 may also decide to use the give resources cheat too. At the extreme spectrum, he may feel like not playing further and leaves (people in UO getting sick of the un-even playing field and quits)



Now, let's bring in game genie into the picture -

1) What if player 1 decides to use a 3rd party cheating device, and give himself the ability to move at lightning speed, auto targets and fires at enemies, auto runs to pick up the best powerups once enemies dies. All with 1 single button to toggle the cheat on (speedhacking, automated scripts)

2) Now player 2 feels miserable since he can't compete and decides not to play anymore (certain UO players)

3) Player 1 has no one else to play with him and decides it's not fun anymore (other players)

4) Neither players will continue playing Contra on the NES. They now play Sonic the Hedgehog on Sega It has better and newer graphics, but you don't kill people anymore, now you collect rings and kill monsters

5) They now tell other Contra players that Contra was a terrible game

6) Citing that it's NES' fault for not coming up with a way to ensure that game genie not work with Contra. Meanwhile, they are glad that game genie doesn't work with Sega.

7) NES makes drastic infrastructure/design changes to block game genie. Although it costs alot of money, it's very successful. But alot of people likes game genie. A month later, some enterprising gamers release game shark for NES. They have also been making the Sega version of game shark.

8) NES re-looks at this carefully. Should they continue to make the costly changes again that can be circumvented in a couple of weeks? Is it worth the costs to engage in a arms race? Or should they think of a better way? Sue game shark and all future game shark wannabe into submission and stop making it? Buy over gameshark and sell it as an add-on? Should they setup a game shark police squad? Maybe a hotline will do instead? Should they change their policies? What if people don't come back even after all these investments? Should NES advertise this as one of their strengths to entice new players? Maybe add it to their nice spiffy box when they release their new console Super NES Reborn?



Disclaimer - All the above is a figment of my overactive imagination. Any similarities to real life events and/or persons are purely coincidental.



I believe that it's not a losing battle. There are things that can be done to prevent rampant abuse. Some rudimentry ones I have given above, for those demented minds that can fathom what I am actually saying. I am sure that there are many more that the product supplier have thought long and hard about in a much more professional capacity.

 

[UOKaiser]

Very good analogy just want to add 2 more scenerios. 1) Both players didnt know about the code so they continue to try to beat it whith the few lives they got and have fun 2)Scenerio that did occur back then player A tells player B how he did it after Player B kept asking how the hell and after some begging and usual am better than you stuff player A tells Player B the code and both get 99 lives and continue to have fun. Remiinds me when my friend didnt want to tell me how to do Akumas I think that was his name special move and he kept doing it to me I didnt enjoy playing that game whith him no more but i bet if he told me I would play against him cause then i can do it back to him.

I guess its the usual everywhere unless both are either not getting a advantage or both are getting a advantage. Which brings me back to what I asked earlier what if EA abondened some of the rules and all players where on equal footing. Cant mess the economy as everyone pretty much has the same advantage and ability as everyone else just like if there was no cheating at all the economy will balance to that. The main issue is the inbalance between those that have and those that dont or does that hurt there bones and those that dont hurt there bones as much.

I guess it's like real life am pissed of at the billionears and millionears cause they dont want to share there loot whith me. I have no reason to be mad at them but its that feeling of dam why cant i have a mansion and a private plane. Obvious reasons I suspect absolutly not there fault and i know it though still doesnt stop me from feeling recentment towards them.

 

[D'Amavir]

Attended scripters thats legal dont care.

Unattended Scripters dont effect the market enough for me to care unless there scripting to harass me which usualy are just immature players doing the harrasing cause they find enjoyment in ruin someone else enjoyment and know i cant fling them over a fence into a ditch.

You are dead right there. There are exceptions of course (resource hoarding, harassment and the like) but for the most part scripting is an improvement of the game play experience for those that choose to use it. If its not really hurting anyone, it shouldn't be an issue. But, sadly, it is.

Of course, things like duping and speedhacking that clearly do impact others in a negative way should be fixed. And those that take part in those activities, willingly of course, should be removed from the game. Permanently.

I don't think many would actually argue that point. Then again, this board continues to suprise me with the opinions I read on here.

In my opinion, if the GM's were getting less calls about the guy in his house script training hide and were able to focus more of their attention on the guy out at the Yew Moongate using a speedhack to outrun everyone else in pvp or investigating all of the dozens of val runics that some vendor in Luna has for sale. Those last two examples are clearly more important than the first. But, based on what I read on the forums, there are more reports of the first instance than the last two combined. More reports equals more GM time required to investigate those reports.

 

[Nexus]

How can you people compare cheats in single or dual player console game to cheats in a MMO? They only similar thing they have is that they are both games, but the concept and principles on how the games function is completely different. Your comparing Apples to Peaches, yes they are related but they are vastly different. You have to take into account real world theory in deciding what is and isn't acceptable. One example is the Chaos Theory, you know "Does the Flap of a Butterfly’s Wings in Brazil set off a Tornado in Texas?", in UO's case it would be Does allowing Scripting and UMing destroy the over all balance of the game as it was intended. Obviously the Staff in charge has said "Yes". If every thing was simple and easy where would the fun come in? Opening the door for a select group to be allowed to script (those not impacting others) opens the door for those who do impact the overall player base to do so by having a group to point at and say, "I'm not doing anything they aren't".

How do you gain mining? Can't do it in your house, you can't do it in Luna Bank, you have to go out and mine the ore to gain in the skill, Lumberjacking?, Fishing? All 3 of these allow you to gather resources used in other skills some of which demand a premium price and not everyone is going to use the resources for just themselves. Lets say you make a pendant with pearls you fished up scripting, and forget to insure it because you died and ran out of gold in the bank and you didn't notice because your script is set to get you to a healer and rez you, die to a monster later that someone else kills an hour later and finds the pendant. Your action in scripting didn't directly effect anyone but indirectly did because now they have a pendant of the Magi they can sell with 0 work having been involved in it's creation. Filling Bods, you do 1000's of bods a week with scripts gathering insane amounts of PoF and Runics what are you going to do throw them away, horde them till your house is brusting with them? Nope your going to sell them effecting the games overall economy. Just because on a personal scale scripting has no real effect, on a large scale it makes small changes in the overall game economy, and players. For Every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, you attack a monster and kill it you get gold, gain skill what ever, you die you lose gold, and possibly equipment and items, and in both you expend the intangible commodity of time. With scripting your getting the reaction without any personal input on the action and circumvent the restrictions of time. It's not a matter of Risk vs Reward it's Time vs Reward, what gives anyone the right to say their time is worth more or less than any other players thus justifying a better reward?

 

[Eslake]

To avoid making comments about "unattended scripting only improves the enjoyment" type posts that will get me banned I'll just say this...

If your gameplay has nothing to do with developing a character, you are playing the wrong game. If you cannot enjoy gameplay until you skills are maxed, you are on the wrong shard (try TC1).

The rules exist for a reason, numerous reasons actually. If you cannot understand that, you shouldn't be here, since you AGREE to those rules when you open an account, again when you intall the game, and again when you first log in.

 

[thenow]

As I've said previously, the culture of cheating in UO will be the death of UO. I am still holding a torch of hope that EA/Mythic will continue to do fight this way of UO life.I for one have slowed my game play down alot lately.
I have to say without a doubt that if by the time SA comes out and their is no sign of improving this game in the way of stopping this extremely bad situation, then I will play no more.If they ever do fix this problem then I will probably return.However I have to voice my disappointment YET AGAIN how this culture has become so ubiquitous throughout this world.

 

[dukarlo]

Speedhacking escalates by the day. People have complained about it for a couple years now yet EA has not banned a single speedhacker or even made any mention that they are doing something about it behind the scenes. It looks to me like they will continue working on their new expansion with little reguards to how all this speedhacking will effect the balance of new skills, items etc. The fact is they have made absolutely no effort to enforce the rules. I could care less if they put any systems into place to curtail speedhacking but they could at least make highly visable and consistant bans so that players would actually think twice about using speedhacks. As it stands now there is absolutely no negative consequence for speedhacking. This whole lack of enforcementis simply a money grab by EA. Ignore the speedhacks and you dont lose money from accounts and you dont have to put money into enforcement of the rules. Non existant GMs means savings for EA. Unfortunately making a game better isnt a priority for a corporation like EA when the name of there game is making more money. Somewhere at Ea whoever got rid of the GM service in UO recieved a pat on the back and probably a bonus for making EAs bottom line go up. While im sure they would like to get rid of cheaters they feel its not worth there money to do so and thats the sad reality.

 

[Nexus]

Speedhacking escalates by the day. People have complained about it for a couple years now yet EA has not banned a single speedhacker or even made any mention that they are doing something about it behind the scenes. It looks to me like they will continue working on their new expansion with little reguards to how all this speedhacking will effect the balance of new skills, items etc. The fact is they have made absolutely no effort to enforce the rules. I could care less if they put any systems into place to curtail speedhacking but they could at least make highly visable and consistant bans so that players would actually think twice about using speedhacks. As it stands now there is absolutely no negative consequence for speedhacking. This whole lack of enforcementis simply a money grab by EA. Ignore the speedhacks and you dont lose money from accounts and you dont have to put money into enforcement of the rules. Non existant GMs means savings for EA. Unfortunately making a game better isnt a priority for a corporation like EA when the name of there game is making more money. Somewhere at Ea whoever got rid of the GM service in UO recieved a pat on the back and probably a bonus for making EAs bottom line go up. While im sure they would like to get rid of cheaters they feel its not worth there money to do so and thats the sad reality.

To be honest if it was me...I'd put a trigger in the client. I'd download all the known cheat programs, be it script engines, speed hacks ect, and analyze their signature in system memory. Have the Client check for this Signature at various point in game play. If one shows....Client disconnects.

This wouldn't be scanning your Hard Drive. It would only be checking functions active in the system memory, no volatile intrusion on your personal data as nothing would be transferred or communicated back to Mythic.

 

[Lucy of Kenton]

I doubt much would change really. Those that choose to use the tools would and those that choose not to wouldn't. Just like with UOA. Back in the day, for those that were actually there for it and didn't just go back and read a recap, people were coming out of the woodwork saying that the macro's allowed by UOA would 'ruin' UO and that the devs had to put a stop to it. Well, as you can see, that didn't happen.

I would imagine that those people that whine about unattended macro'ers would still whine about it if it was legal. The rule against it is just something handy that they use to cover their hatred of something that they personally don't believe in.

Its not the first time something like that has happened in UO. Those that were against pk'ing are still against it now even though Trammel is available to them. Those that were against UOA are still against it even though its fully supported and soon to be integrated with UO. Two different sides to the same 'you do things differently from me and my way is right' coin.

uo already caters for people like you. test shard, go there and just type in your skills and leave the main shards for true gamers

 

[GarthGrey]

Hey Lucy, nice first posting over at WoW btw..you couldn't wait to start telling your "boo hoo I've been banned" over there either could ya...you've got no room to say "people like you"...

 

[D'Amavir]

uo already caters for people like you. test shard, go there and just type in your skills and leave the main shards for true gamers

Typical. If you like all the constant clicking required to train certain skills or do certain activities, more power to ya. I won't tell you to go anywhere else because of it. Unlike you, I am open to other opinions beside my own.

Some people just find certain activities in this game tedious. As stated before, if the devs could improve the tedious nature of certain activities, people wouldn't have to find other things for that improvement.

As always, enjoy what you do in game. It doesn't bother me. I just happen to not enjoy carpal tunnel inducing things. Sue me.

 

[Nexus]

Typical. If you like all the constant clicking required to train certain skills or do certain activities, more power to ya. I won't tell you to go anywhere else because of it. Unlike you, I am open to other opinions beside my own.

Some people just find certain activities in this game tedious. As stated before, if the devs could improve the tedious nature of certain activities, people wouldn't have to find other things for that improvement.

As always, enjoy what you do in game. It doesn't bother me. I just happen to not enjoy carpal tunnel inducing things. Sue me.

If they integrate a means into the client fine, but Exploitable programs need to continue to be illegal for use.

 

[D'Amavir]

If they integrate a means into the client fine, but Exploitable programs need to continue to be illegal for use.

Thats been my point all along. If they care enough to improve the issues themselves, then people that have to look elsewhere won't have to. Of course, those that use illegal tools for things like resource and item farming will probably still do so. But, those are two different issues.

My suggestion all along is for players to focus their attentions on the issues that actually do impact them (duping, resource farming for real cash sales, etc...) instead of focusing it on things that don't impact them, then GM's could spend more of their time on those truly impacting situations.

 

[RoycroftLS]

Of course, things like duping and speedhacking that clearly do impact others in a negative way should be fixed. And those that take part in those activities, willingly of course, should be removed from the game. Permanently.

In my opinion, if the GM's were getting less calls about the guy in his house script training hide and were able to focus more of their attention on the guy out at the Yew Moongate using a speedhack to outrun everyone else in pvp or investigating all of the dozens of val runics that some vendor in Luna has for sale. Those last two examples are clearly more important than the first. But, based on what I read on the forums, there are more reports of the first instance than the last two combined. More reports equals more GM time required to investigate those reports.

I don't think that people are any less frustrated with speedhackers and people who cheat at PvP than they are with skill scripters. But from my experience, and from what I've read, reporting people who cheat in PvP has little to no effect on getting those people banned.

A personal anecdote: a prominent PvPer on the GL boards posted a screenshot from his personal perspective showing his guild dominating a spawn, with his taskbar conspicuously missing. By simply changing the index number of the screenshot (i.e. from Screenshot002.jpg to Screenshot003.jpg), I showed that there were screenshots in his same photo album, at the same spawn, except they included his taskbar. And in his taskbar were three illegal programs running.

Now if you ask me, that's more proof for banning someone than what a lot of people get banned for nowadays. But the thread I mentioned it in was quietly deleted, and as far as I know nothing was done to punish that person.

As far as reporting people scripting skills, people who do that at least have the knowledge that action could possibly be taken. And while I do agree that scripting skills isn't the most egregious of offenses, at the moment it seems to be the one that people can actually get banned for doing. I think that is why there is so much attention on it.

 

[D'Amavir]

As far as reporting people scripting skills, people who do that at least have the knowledge that action could possibly be taken. And while I do agree that scripting skills isn't the most egregious of offenses, at the moment it seems to be the one that people can actually get banned for doing. I think that is why there is so much attention on it.

And that is where EA needs to make improvements. Not showing up for calls regarding obvious cases of duping or speedhacking or the like just discourages them from being reported and encourages those that take part in those things. Players can obviously help by cutting down on the reports they make regarding things that aren't really impacting and increasing the calls they make on those things that are.

If you are realling bothered by duping and you find a vendor with 20+ val hammers, then report that using every character on every account that you have. For every one call that GM's don't get regarding some silly thing a player might not like, that's one call about something important that they can show up for. Now, if GM's are being directed to show up on skill scripters and not on speedhackers and/or dupers, then that right there should tell you something.

 

[RoycroftLS]

If you are realling bothered by duping and you find a vendor with 20+ val hammers, then report that using every character on every account that you have. For every one call that GM's don't get regarding some silly thing a player might not like, that's one call about something important that they can show up for. Now, if GM's are being directed to show up on skill scripters and not on speedhackers and/or dupers, then that right there should tell you something.

I definitely agree that EA needs to make vast improvements in their cheat detection abilities.

I don't think that clogging up the GM queues with issues that they are (apparently) unable to verify and take action against will have much of an effect. It's not like any of these issues are new or obscure. The devs definitely know they are there and know how negatively they impact the game. It will just cause even longer queues for the people who have issues that can currently be resolved.

 

[AesSedai]

From our head gamemaster, Mark Jacobs, in reference to his newest game WHO ~ Warhammer Online:
His thoughts on cheating:

My CSRs have a zero tolerance policy. We don’t wait and let them stay in the game and ban them en-masse, my guys ban their useless, time-consuming butts right away. We have a strike team whose sole job it is to get these guys off our servers as quickly as possible.

- Unfortunately he also mentions his passionate disagreement with the free market of RMTs ~ the out-of-game activity of selling time spent playing in-game for cash.
Mr. Jacobs, I dislike IGE as much as you; they feel they are above the rules of said games.
But I do believe there is a solid place for alternate currencies other than in-game gold (such as USD) in online gaming. I also believe it is unstoppable; purely unstoppable, even if you succeed in eradicating any mention of it from in-game. Your solution will be as successful, if not less, than WoW's has proven to be.

How about embracing that anti-cheating task force (I love a ten+ year old pine of mine being spoken about by a man in charge), and concentrating on removing cheating instead of attempting to prevent an unstoppable result from being a successful online game?

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(Mr. Mark Jacobs, I would love to have another personal conversation, as I would love to talk specifically about your approach towards cheating in your games & the logic behind how you intend to attack it; especially regarding your thoughts towards RMTs. On a personal and professional level, of course. We talked, very briefly, a year ago this month in Austin. UO CM Jeremy might be able to give you my details if you don't want to contact me here with a Private Message; else, I can always forward that info.)

 

[Anakena]

The problem is that most recent dupes involved the character transfer feature. It involves the deletion on the original shard and the recreation on the destination one, with a brand new ID (the same ID cannot be given since another item can already have it on the destination shard).

This is why I think one should have object ID's with a shard prefix, like AT 123654 for Atlantic, CH 123456 for chesapeake, etc... This would make easier tracing duped items. One could even go further by adding the date of creation at the end like
"AT12345620080924".

 

[Kat]

Ramp up the anti-cheating measures already!

I agree! There is nothing more frustrating than to play against cheaters day in and day out. Get off your asses EAMythic and do something already!

 

[Nystul]

I'm pretty sure a lot of dupes are being tracked down & taken care of. But there is no way to know for sure especially if some players got away with thousands of a particular duped item (runics) until they are all used up (won't happen). It would be vary hard to tell with the items we have in game, since most all of them have existed for years and have had a long time to have been duped. A new expansion, event, etc. or something with some powerful, desireable, rare, etc. items that are scarce would be a good test If they start poping up like crazy something's up.

 

[Luka Melehan]

I agree! There is nothing more frustrating than to play against cheaters day in and day out. Get off your asses EAMythic and do something already!

I don't mind taking time to learn things or accumpilate things. As long as we are on the same page. If we were on the same page I am sure more players like me would play more, or stay when they come back after years of WoW to check it out. And with a game this old, don't discount the return players.

We are older. Set in our ways.

And we talk alot.

You know, to other people who might join us.

 

[MYUO]

Just want to add my names behind the anti-cheat supports. I "dis-like" cheating in UO so much that I have got tired of pointing out their damages to the game.

Another reason for me to post here is that if some day I am wrongfully banned, this post might help me a tiny tiny bit.