A Catch 22 with wrestling,bushido,and parry

[Hunters' Moon]

Today I went to make a "martial artist" on TC just to see how it would work,and if it would be a fun template. Template I used is as follows.(don't laugh,not every template has to be "Doom-worthy" to be fun.)

Wrestling​

anatomy​

tactics​

parry​

healing​

focus​

bushido​

Throughout my test on TC I went against zombies,skeletons,and lizardmen. During the test I gained bushido,wrestling,anatomy,tactics,and healing just fine. Only thing that didn't raise even 0.1 was parry. Why? Because I didn't have a shield equiped....but if I equip a shield,I take a hard parry penality,but if I don't equip a shield,or a two handed weapon,I can't raise parry. Thus the Catch 22. So I can't parry attacks at all with my wrestle,parry, bushido character and the damage output is rock-bottom as well. I hope a Dev can address this. I really would like to have a viable "martial-artist" character. I am not asking for Tamer type uberness,just a little love is all I am looking for.

 

[Aran]

Staves are a martial art. Consider macing.

(That's pretty much my template, once you add in the macing)

 

[Hunters' Moon]

Staves are a martial art. Consider macing.

(That's pretty much my template, once you add in the macing)

True enough and I could drop "wrestling" for any weapon skill but my preference is for unarmed (karate) fighting. I guess that template will be the runt template of the game. We can't have any Jet Lee/Jackie Chan type characters in the game I suppose.

 

[Aran]

Can you even use the abilities of Bushido unarmed?

 

[Hunters' Moon]

Can you even use the abilities of Bushido unarmed?

Yep I sure can. Confidence,lightning strike clicked off no problem.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

The more Bushido you have, the greater impact it has one whether you're using a sheild.

In fact, until you hit about 50 bush, you're actually better off holding one.

Really though it's better to just max out parry first. The traditional method these days is to go to the sheep pens in Yew with a large supply of sheilds/bandies, get nine critters targetting you, then stand there healing yourself until you cap out. Tedious, but very fast compared to training "in the field" (a few hours will take you to GM+) and no weapon skills are required.

I'm a bit confused, though. Even if you do raise parry up, how are you going to use it while totally unarmed?

 

[Alrich]

aye parry requires a weapon (with bush) or shield to use the skill.

fist doesnt count as a weapon so not really parrying =/

 

[Hunters' Moon]

I'm a bit confused, though. Even if you do raise parry up, how are you going to use it while totally unarmed?

I was hoping that parry would work in tandem with wrestling and bushido so I could look like a martial artist and not someone that totes a shield around to have parry. I was thinking that wrestling was concidered a two-handed fighting skill....guess I was wrong.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

I actually like the idea of a wrestling martial artist!
You should train parrying by using a shield. Once you have reached the level of your choice, remove the shield. This is a little stupid, because you cannot "train the skill while playing the martial artist", but actually have to just train the skill for the purpose of training only.

That being said, parrying won't help you much when you don't use a weapon or a shield.
1. Parrying blocks attacks when you have a shield equipped (and no Bushido skill)
1. Parrying/Bushido blocks attacks when you wield a 2-handed weapon (and unfortunately wrestling doesn't count as a 2-handed weapon)

So, either you wrestle and use a shield (and forget about Bushido), or you use a 2-handed weapon and Bushido.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

All the documents I've read state that it only lets you parry with a sword, specifically. I've never even tried it with, say, a mace; let alone with no weapon at all.

Let's face it, samurai were not known for unarmed fighting.

 

[Sir Kenga]

LOL true martial artist is ninja, not samurai. That's for sure.
So your choise:

Wrestling
anatomy
tactics
parry
healing
focus
ninjutsu

PS. and lol again it's playable =)

 

[Violence]

This subject is completely missunderstood.

Bushido is a Way as much as Ninjitsu is. People who followed the teachings and codes of Bushido and Ninjitsu were trained in unarmed and armed combat among other things.

If anything Bushido was more 'martial' than Ninjitsu for the matter. Ninjitsu encompassed much more than just fighting and preserving a certain code of conduct though..

Which weapon you would use was up to you in combat although the two handed sword carried great significance in Bushido and mastering it sword completely was something to be admired.

Back to UO: I think you can also parry with other weapons having Bushido/Parry. Go try it.

 

[Connor_Graham]

This subject is completely missunderstood.

I agree. Very much so.

Bushido is a Way as much as Ninjitsu is. People who followed the teachings and codes of Bushido and Ninjitsu were trained in unarmed and armed combat among other things.

Bushido was the "way of the Samurai", their code as you say, and has more to do with Honor than anything else. Ninjitsu is an entirely different thing. 'Ninja's' were trained assassins, plain and simple. That was their only purpose. Using misdirection and the element of surprise was key to Ninjitsu, and the training that went into being a Ninja was comprised of a whole slew of different weapons and tools.

If anything Bushido was more 'martial' than Ninjitsu for the matter.

In a purer form, yes.

Ninjitsu encompassed much more than just fighting and preserving a certain code of conduct though..

Also correct. Kara Te (open hand, or Karate as known today) was the common denominator between the Samurai and the Ninja, and other than the use of a couple of common weapons, pretty much the only similarity.

Which weapon you would use was up to you in combat although the two handed sword carried great significance in Bushido and mastering it sword completely was something to be admired.

Unless I'm mistaken, the Katana and Wakasashi were required weapons of the Samurai. Who ever heard of a Samurai without their Samurai sword?

It was up to the individual if they wanted to learn another weapon as part of their Karate training. The Yumi was a common weapon in warfare, but was again something that was not a choice of the individual. If the individual showed a proficiency with one, they were ordered by the Daimyo to perfect their skills so they could become the Archers of the Samurai. For those that think that Archers can't shoot from horseback, Samurai used to use those big ass bows with 100% accuracy from the back of a speeding horse.

Back to UO: I think you can also parry with other weapons having Bushido/Parry. Go try it.

Yes, back to UO.

Now say it with me:

Wakarimasu Ka Connor-sama

 

[Sarphus]

I would love to see a viable hand to hand combat character, but I think the best way for UO to make one is to add another skill that is an unarmed specialization skill. If wrestling were made into a stronger unarmed combat skill, it would unbalance a lot of caster builds.

 

[Coppelia]

I agree. Very much so.






Bushido was the "way of the Samurai", their code as you say, and has more to do with Honor than anything else. Ninjitsu is an entirely different thing. 'Ninja's' were trained assassins, plain and simple. That was their only purpose. Using misdirection and the element of surprise was key to Ninjitsu, and the training that went into being a Ninja was comprised of a whole slew of different weapons and tools.




In a purer form, yes.




Also correct. Kara Te (open hand, or Karate as known today) was the common denominator between the Samurai and the Ninja, and other than the use of a couple of common weapons, pretty much the only similarity.




Unless I'm mistaken, the Katana and Wakasashi were required weapons of the Samurai. Who ever heard of a Samurai without their Samurai sword?

It was up to the individual if they wanted to learn another weapon as part of their Karate training. The Yumi was a common weapon in warfare, but was again something that was not a choice of the individual. If the individual showed a proficiency with one, they were ordered by the Daimyo to perfect their skills so they could become the Archers of the Samurai. For those that think that Archers can't shoot from horseback, Samurai used to use those big ass bows with 100% accuracy from the back of a speeding horse.




Yes, back to UO.

Now say it with me:

Wakarimasu Ka Connor-sama

Rubbish! I've seen Ninja Terminator, Black Ninja, Rage of the Ninjas, White Ninja, American Ninja, Mafia vs Ninja, Ninja Fury... so I know very well the topic!


j/k

 

[Sir Kenga]

Hey hey let's go back to UO. Ninjutsu with wrestling (while having also Hiding and Stealth) can Actually KILL people with combination of DS + surikens and fukiya darts AND make use of Parrying to survive. It IS a playable FUN build.
Stats 80 STR, 80 Dex, other goes to Int, statscrolls sure help =)
120 wrestling
120 ninjutsu
120 stealth
100 hiding
120 parrying
Which make 580 skill points. Assuming one have 720, he can go for 90 healing +60 anatomy (have to use some items to boost skills or take some skill points from Stealth). Or just straight 120 Resist =)