SP what are your thoughts?

[galefan2004]

This isn't meant to be a flame...

I'm just curious what you guys think about the ROT changes. Looking at them I still wouldn't be impressed with such a system. Its going to take way to long to make a playable chracter for the most part, and that really prevents me from even trying out SP, but I'm curious what those that play there think.

 

[Chad Sexington]

They're o.k... but I've always liked RoT.

I like the fact that everyone can't just jump in and be top dog. Everyone has to put in their time. I think the people at the top who've already put in their years kind of appreciate the way the newer players have to deal with it, in a fraternity sort of way (or the way seniors or graduates look at freshmen). They get it. And they respect it (even when some of them are murdering you). They respect that you're still hanging in their.

For example, if you didn't have it and could have instant ready to go characters, there'd be a "oh, look a new flavor of the week is here" attitude. This sometimes happens when a new guild xfers to a normal shard.

When it takes time, you're also forced to have to interact with some of the older guys. Instead of barging in on their territory, by the time you're finished, you've become one of them. Not just a stranger who thinks he owns the place.

I think they should just introduce alacrity scrolls to the ilsh and tokuno champ spawns (on normal shards too).

There has to be a better way to keep this feeling, for it to take time, and to get rid of the "egg-timer / logging in-and-out for 2 months" set up RoT has now. There has to be another way to do it. But it should still take time.


The specific changes... it helps. It's faster. But it's still RoT.



But I haven't been on Siege long sooo... what do I know?

 

[archite666]

I feel the time between gains is too way too long, why do you want to spend 250 hours just to get your max gains in a skill in a day, I have a job and family ya know?

for more info on my opinion please read my thread here.

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=99772

 

[Kael]

Mixed feelings on the ROT changes

But definately better than before

 

[Hoffs]

I never had much of a problem with ROT as it was, but as others clearly do I am happy to see it modified. However, I think it was unnecessarily complicated and is even more so now.

I also fail to see the reason for the extended delays between gains. I think it would be far better if it was just a straight two minutes, allowing people to get their daily quota fairly quickly then leaving them free to get on with other things.

 

[Petra Fyde]

My feelings are mixed, it's certainly a change for the better, but does it go far enough? I'm not sure.

On the other hand, RoT has always been something of a mixed blessing. If you compare training something like taming or poisoning high end, I'll take Siege RoT every time. Guaranteed gain every # minutes, provided you're taming the right creatures, using the right poison level? Yes please, beats chasing ridgebacks around for 2 hours for .1 in gains.

 

[IanJames]

I have mixed emotions. I think you should either have a cap with no timer, or have a timer and no cap. . ..

Training some skills is definitely easier with RoT. I don't know how many times I've said, "I can't wait to get this skill in RoT" Animal taming is one of those. . .

 

[Patty Pickaxe]

We asked for a major changes. They gave us a tweak.
I think the daily cap is too low and the times are too long. It is still better than GGS, though.

HOWEVER I do want to thank the devs for taking the time to give us some improvement, however small it may be.

 

[deadite]

Better too little than too much I would think...

But the bad thing about erring too much on the side of caution is that the changes may be too small to help the population grow by much (if any).

 

[Tjalle]

Personally I´m not that happy with the change. It just wasn´t good enough imo. The caps could be a little higher and the timers are still to long between.

I´m basically finished with all my skill training except for a few gains here and there on different chars so it´s not out of selfish reasons I want a better change. My biggest concern with this change is to make it good enough so I won´t have to see another "I wanna try Siege but won´t because of RoT"-post again...
I want you guys to come have fun with us.

SP what are your thoughts?

I think a more important question would be what all the non-SP players think? I believe a big part in us asking for a RoT change was to get more people over to try out Siege. I´ve read in many posts about people wanting to try Siege but didn´t want to take the step because of RoT.

Here´s your chance non-Siegers. If you liked the change then I look forward to see you over there. If you didn´t like the change then pls send in feedback and perhaps it can be changed some more...

 

[Jeremy]

It's certainly still open for tweaking, but we wanted to get it out and get some actual time on the shard before we adjust further.

 

[kelmo]

It's certainly still open for tweaking, but we wanted to get it out and get some actual time on the shard before we adjust further.

Good call. It is better to be Conservative and be able to give a little more, than to go over and have to take it back. Is this actually on any test center?

I do realize with the time involved, it would be difficult to test. I am planning on redoing a few of my characters when this roles out. I will report any glitches I come across in my experience or from the Siege players.

*tips hat* Thanks!

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

It is nice to finally see some changes to ROT on Siege.

I think the community on Siege has been a bit divided about what changes should be made if any.

There is a group who wants ROT to be faster so that more people from other shards can train characters here.

Another group wants to prevent an influx of players who would only come here for the fast gains.

The current proposal seems to be a bit of a compromise.

However, why have gains from 90-98 actually been slowed down from 10 minutes between gains to 12 minutes?

A better progression would have been 4 minutes, 6 minutes, 8 minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes.

At 8 minutes, gains from 90-98 would be faster than they are now. As currently designed, they are slower.

Is that an oversight, a mistake, what is that?

 

[Jeremy]

Investigating now - good catch.

 

[Tjalle]

It's certainly still open for tweaking, but we wanted to get it out and get some actual time on the shard before we adjust further.

When saying shard, do U mean the real Siege shard or the test Siege shard?

 

[Jeremy]

The actual shard. When we sat down and thought about it, we realized that asking people to spend dozens of hours on a test shard grinding skills just to test the feel was sort of impractical. It's pretty much live-fire or nothing for this particular change. (We have tested it extensively to make sure it works as designed - the remaining question is whether or not the design itself is solid.)

 

[Tjalle]

The actual shard. When we sat down and thought about it, we realized that asking people to spend dozens of hours on a test shard grinding skills just to test the feel was sort of impractical. It's pretty much live-fire or nothing for this particular change. (We have tested it extensively to make sure it works as designed - the remaining question is whether or not the design itself is solid.)

10-4

Thanks for that answer...

One last question. How long will there be a chance to get it tweaked some more if needed?

 

[Jeremy]

MoonglowMerchant, I checked and yes, that's intended. What was actually done was that the old 10-minute rate applied to 80-98.9 (and with only 2 points max a day) - the new rate is 8 minutes from 80-89.9 and 12 minutes from 90-99.9, with 4 and 3 points a day for the two brackets, which should make 80-89.9 about 50% faster, and still make 90-99.9 about 33% faster.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

MoonglowMerchant, I checked and yes, that's intended. What was actually done was that the old 10-minute rate applied to 80-98.9 (and with only 2 points max a day) - the new rate is 8 minutes from 80-89.9 and 12 minutes from 90-99.9, with 4 and 3 points a day for the two brackets, which should make 80-89.9 about 50% faster, and still make 90-99.9 about 33% faster.

It may be intended, but I don't agree with the design.

While the net result may be that someone can get from 70-120 more quickly. One of the big objections to ROT is the long waits between gains resulting in a big daily commitment to training.

The way to prevent powergaming from 70-120 is with daily caps. Having accomplished that, there isn't a reason to slow down any times between gains as has been done from 90-98. That just means more time each day is required to get the gains.

If the goal is to make training faster, make it faster by reducing the wait times but keep it from being too fast through the caps.

In short, while it may be designed that way, and you are correct, total training time is reduced, it doesn't address (in fact it makes worse) long waits in between gains.

If 4, 6, 8, 10, 15 is too fast, at least make it 5, 8, 10, 15, 15 so that 90-98 isn't slower.

It is counterproductive to do anything which actually increases the wait time between gains. I would think that would make sense even to number crunchers.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

This isn't meant to be a flame...

I'm just curious what you guys think about the ROT changes. Looking at them I still wouldn't be impressed with such a system. Its going to take way to long to make a playable chracter for the most part, and that really prevents me from even trying out SP, but I'm curious what those that play there think.

In answer to the original poster, the changes are going in the right direction, but they aren't enough to make a difference as you just observed.

Reduce the timer between gains so that people don't have to waste so much time between gains. You can still prevent powergaming by having the daily caps. Raising them as they have done is a good idea.

To use a baseball analogy, Siege was swinging for the fences and ended up with a bloop single.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

MoonglowMerchant, I checked and yes, that's intended. What was actually done was that the old 10-minute rate applied to 80-98.9 (and with only 2 points max a day) - the new rate is 8 minutes from 80-89.9 and 12 minutes from 90-99.9, with 4 and 3 points a day for the two brackets, which should make 80-89.9 about 50% faster, and still make 90-99.9 about 33% faster.

Let me put this another way.

Let's say my skill is at 90 and I have one hour a day to play UO.

Well, under the old system, I could gain .7 in that hour. Under the new system, I'll only gain .6 in that hour.

That doesn't make any sense.

Only EA could set out to make training faster and actually slow it down.

 

[love2winalot]

Hail: Are there any plans at all to allow players to have a house, "that has to be refrshed weekly" on SP, if they have a house on their main shard?

imhop, This is the number one thing holding back players, like myself, from spending any real time. I have to give up all 10 years of vet rewards, my castle, all the other type of points, items, and other stuff i earned over the years. If you play enough there, you will want and need a house, but it is to much to loose to do so.

 

[archite666]

I completely agree with moonglow merchant, The time in between gains is too long, everyone likes the new daily allotment but the time in between gains is rediculous, lets say my mage, that is 6x120, wants to drop wrestle and pick up anatomy ( I really do) ok so now im back down to 5x120 and working another skill and it would only take me 16 days to complete, only problem is...

I dont have the time to play 250 minutes a day much less stop every 5 minutes to train a skill for 250 minutes a day.

My point: Lower the timer in between gains, when your playing the game and you get a gain, it encourages you to keep playing, so lower the timer in between.

I love the new daily limit but the new gain timer is whack, Id like to see it changed before it hits us.

 

[FrejaSP]

The actual shard. When we sat down and thought about it, we realized that asking people to spend dozens of hours on a test shard grinding skills just to test the feel was sort of impractical. It's pretty much live-fire or nothing for this particular change. (We have tested it extensively to make sure it works as designed - the remaining question is whether or not the design itself is solid.)

I do believe the time between gains need to be a little shorter to make the players stay ingame and play instead of logging in to gain and then logging out again.

I would lower it a little. It will help players who only have an hour or two a day to play.

Skill points for skills less than 70 points will gain as normal shards.
Skill points for skills between 70 and 79.9 points will gain a maximum of 5 points per day with a minimum of 3 minutes between points gained. (250 minutes min to gain 5.0 skill)
Skill points for skills between 80 and 89.9 will gain at a maximum of 4.0 points per day with a minimum of 6 minutes between points gained. (320 minutes min to gain 4.0 skill)
Skill points for skills between 90 and 99.9 will gain at a maximum of 3.0 points per day with a minimum of 8 minutes between points gained. (360 minutes min to gain 3.0 skill points)
Skill points for skills between 100 and 109.9 will gain at a maximum of 3.0 skill points per day with a minimum of 10 minutes between points gained. (450 minutes min to gain 3.0 skill points)
Skill points for skills between 110 and 120 will gain at a maximum of 2.0 skill points per day with a minimum of 12 minutes between points gained. (300 minutes min to gain 2.0 skill points)

 

[galefan2004]

There has to be a better way to keep this feeling, for it to take time, and to get rid of the "egg-timer / logging in-and-out for 2 months" set up RoT has now. There has to be another way to do it. But it should still take time.

This has to be my biggest issue. If I was to play the shard I wouldn't log in except to get gains for the first 2-3 months, and that seems messed up to me.

 

[galefan2004]

We asked for a major changes. They gave us a tweak.
I think the daily cap is too low and the times are too long. It is still better than GGS, though.

HOWEVER I do want to thank the devs for taking the time to give us some improvement, however small it may be.

Please remember its not live yet, so this is the time to push and push hard to get it the way you want it. Send in feedback. IM developers. Play test it. When it goes live its going to become much harder to push for more changes.

 

[galefan2004]

I think a more important question would be what all the non-SP players think? I believe a big part in us asking for a RoT change was to get more people over to try out Siege. I´ve read in many posts about people wanting to try Siege but didn´t want to take the step because of RoT.

Here´s your chance non-Siegers. If you liked the change then I look forward to see you over there. If you didn´t like the change then pls send in feedback and perhaps it can be changed some more...

Because of Kelmo and my time posting in OT, I would consider trying SP although I never have. However, I HATE the concept of a cap. I think that a timer is acceptable, but I hate the idea that EA thinks they can tell me if I play 15 hours a day I can't gain more than those that play 5. Thats just not acceptable for me. That would be why I would stay away from SP under that system.

 

[galefan2004]

imhop, This is the number one thing holding back players, like myself, from spending any real time. I have to give up all 10 years of vet rewards, my castle, all the other type of points, items, and other stuff i earned over the years. If you play enough there, you will want and need a house, but it is to much to loose to do so.

My idea would be to allow transfers of items only. All of the skills on the transfered character would be wiped. All of the skills on soul stones/frags would be wiped. You could still transfer items though. All items would become unblessed/uninsured and personal bless deeds would be lost. Maybe that is a horrible idea, but I think a lot of people won't try SP because it would require them to give up way to much if they actually liked it.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

My idea would be to allow transfers of items only. All of the skills on the transfered character would be wiped. All of the skills on soul stones/frags would be wiped. You could still transfer items though. All items would become unblessed/uninsured and personal bless deeds would be lost. Maybe that is a horrible idea, but I think a lot of people won't try SP because it would require them to give up way to much if they actually liked it.

Sell a second house slot for Siege on UO.COM (can I post that URL here?).

For 9.99 you get to keep your house and you get a second slot on Siege.

That way people who really wanted to go to Siege could, but Siege wouldn't be flooded by people placing houses and not playing there.

 

[Patty Pickaxe]

We asked for a major changes. They gave us a tweak.
I think the daily cap is too low and the times are too long. It is still better than GGS, though.

HOWEVER I do want to thank the devs for taking the time to give us some improvement, however small it may be.

Please remember its not live yet, so this is the time to push and push hard to get it the way you want it. Send in feedback. IM developers. Play test it. When it goes live its going to become much harder to push for more changes.

EXACTLY! I don't want changes to go through that actually slow us down during part of ROT, and with wait times that are too long. I have played Siege long enough to know that changes do not come promptly. So, it saddens me a bit to hear Jeremy say that these are the numbers that are going live- no changes. How long will we we have to wait to get it adjusted?

I would love to see it sped up even further. I'm sure I'll hear about this from my fellow Siegers!

70-79.9 2 minutes / 10 point cap
80-89.9 4 minutes / 8 points cap
90-99.9 6 minutes / 6 point cap
100-109.9 8 minutes / 4 point cap
110-120 10 minutes / 2 point cap

Can someone do the math for that?

What do non-siegers think? Is the new system enough to motivate you to try Siege (if RoT was your biggest issue)?

 

[Patty Pickaxe]

My idea would be to allow transfers of items only. All of the skills on the transfered character would be wiped. All of the skills on soul stones/frags would be wiped. You could still transfer items though. All items would become unblessed/uninsured and personal bless deeds would be lost. Maybe that is a horrible idea, but I think a lot of people won't try SP because it would require them to give up way to much if they actually liked it.

Oh, I would have to say HELL NO to that! We have a stable economy. I'd like to keep it that way!!! Besides, aren't alot of the duping issues from char transfers? No thanks!

Sell a second house slot for Siege on UO.COM (can I post that URL here?).

For 9.99 you get to keep your house and you get a second slot on Siege.

That way people who really wanted to go to Siege could, but Siege wouldn't be flooded by people placing houses and not playing there.

Now there is an idea!! Ea makes money, Siege gets more people....it's a win-win situation for everyone!!

 

[galefan2004]

EXACTLY! I don't want changes to go through that actually slow us down during part of ROT, and with wait times that are too long. I have played Siege long enough to know that changes do not come promptly. So, it saddens me a bit to hear Jeremy say that these are the numbers that are going live- no changes. How long will we we have to wait to get it adjusted?

That was never said. Jermey actually asked for feedback on the changes so they could rework them if needed.

What do non-siegers think? Is the new system enough to motivate you to try Siege (if RoT was your biggest issue)?

RoT was/is one of my largest isusses. I will never support a system that has a cap on it. If I want to play 20 hours a day I should be able to surpass someone that plays 20 minutes a day. A system that doesn't allow me to do that is not a system I will EVER support and that is kind of sad. I think it should be a time scale where after you get 2 gains at 110 (for example) you go from 10 minutes to 15 minutes and 2 more would be from 15 minutes to 20 minutes or something like that.

 

[Patty Pickaxe]

EXACTLY! I don't want changes to go through that actually slow us down during part of ROT, and with wait times that are too long. I have played Siege long enough to know that changes do not come promptly. So, it saddens me a bit to hear Jeremy say that these are the numbers that are going live- no changes. How long will we we have to wait to get it adjusted?

That was never said. Jermey actually asked for feedback on the changes so they could rework them if needed.

Actually she did say that-

Jeremey- It's certainly still open for tweaking, but we wanted to get it out and get some actual time on the shard before we adjust further.

However, reading it again I realized it is kind of confusing. Is it open for tweaking before or after it goes live?

 

[galefan2004]

However, reading it again I realized it is kind of confusing. Is it open for tweaking before or after it goes live?

I would say to start sending in your feedback now and keep sending it in. I assume its easier for them to adjust the numbers before it even goes live, so I would push hard now in hopes that they will change them before they publish the changes.

It seems like Jeremy was trying to say that even after it hits the shard its still open for adjustment and they will actually monitor it. Lets hope this is true and not just EA speak. Sometimes I feel bad for the development team because even if they have the best of intentions they have the last 10 years (that wasn't even them) to account for and those years were very badly messed up by EA developers and now I bite my tongue almost everytime I hear they will monitor something.

 

[Kat]

I never had much of a problem with ROT as it was, but as others clearly do I am happy to see it modified. However, I think it was unnecessarily complicated and is even more so now.

I also fail to see the reason for the extended delays between gains. I think it would be far better if it was just a straight two minutes, allowing people to get their daily quota fairly quickly then leaving them free to get on with other things.

This!

I do prefer RoT over GGS, but as Hoffs said, it is still unnecessarily complicated. That last tier of gains is even worse.

If the changes aren't appealing enough to get people to try Siege, I don't see the point in changing RoT. Devs? Can we simplify RoT a bit?