Follow up - Poor Policy on the part of EA/Mythic *UPDATED*

[Ailish]

So, last week a GM came to my house and broke my curtains for me. I posted screenies of it here, and also sent in a GM review, as well as an e-mail to Jeremy, asking that it be forwarded to the appropriate party.

I am not sure if Jeremy got the e-mail or not (guess I should start requesting reciept notifications when I send e-mails like that ...) however I did get the answer back from GM Reviews.

I dont know if this person is the head GM or if they just have another GM answer you when you send stuff in ... I am familiar with the guy as I have seen him twice in game recently for various issues, so he DOES deal with UO. (and yes, the letter was in block with no spaces - this is a straight copy/paste)

Greetings,
Thank you for letting us know about this situation.
We are concerned and want to know about instances like this.
We very much appreciate that you took the time to make us aware of this GMs actions in game and we will be reviewing it with them internally. We always expect our GMs to behave within game rules, and with a professionalism that you deserve.
We may not discuss the internal process we will conduct, but I can assure you that we will make the adjustments required to assure future interactions are carried out per our policy. Please know that we will make any adjustments that are necessary to ensure that we are providing top-notch service. Sadly however, at this time we are unable to provide any items regardless of the issue. If you have any other issues please do not hesitate to petition in game or submit another help request via email. Thank you again and take care.

EA Rep V-----
Player Relations
Electronic Arts

Anyway, on to the poor policy. I understand, have always understood, why GM's can't/won't replace an item that is "lost" - be it by decay or failed insurance, etc. They cannot - without a huge headache - prove that you did have such item and that it was lost by game mechanics, opening them up for false claims.

However, when it was the GM themselves that destroyed the item (therefor they knew I had it and knew it was lost via their mistake) ... that is where this is a bad policy. No, it isnt a big item, just curtains, but it is the point that since they broke it, they should fix it.

I wish there was someone like the old Head GM's that I could actually discuss the matter with ... try to get that policy changed.

Also, what is with GM's no longer having the "GM" tag in their in-game name? When a ghost with no tag shows up next to me, first thing I think is that someone needs a rez, not, hey, here is a GM!

 

[Pawl]

dang, i must be , behind time. when did we get curtains for a house?

that looks like a standerd reply form.

Gm won't relpace any lost items..

Question thou, why did GM come and delete it or come in and break it?

 

[Ailish]

I posted the situation http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?p=819422#post819422 (forgive me, cannot remember how to do the "here" thing).

Basically the curtains were on the wrong side of the wall and the GM broke them rather than redeeding them to me.

 

[JC the Builder]

The sad part is the GM is probably going to get a bad mark on their record, which may or may not end up costing them their job. Just because he screwed up and wasn't allowed to simply replace a rather common in-game item. If this happened 5 years ago the GM would have simply deleted the curtain and gave you a new deed.

 

[The Home Guild]

dang, i must be , behind time. when did we get curtains for a house?

that looks like a standerd reply form.

Gm won't relpace any lost items..

Question thou, why did GM come and delete it or come in and break it?

Heritage tokens anyone?

 

[Sadoul]

Anyway, on to the poor policy. I understand, have always understood, why GM's can't/won't replace an item that is "lost" - be it by decay or failed insurance, etc. They cannot - without a huge headache - prove that you did have such item and that it was lost by game mechanics, opening them up for false claims.

However, when it was the GM themselves that destroyed the item (therefor they knew I had it and knew it was lost via their mistake) ... that is where this is a bad policy. No, it isnt a big item, just curtains, but it is the point that since they broke it, they should fix it.

Does anyone remember the AOS launch when player's backpacks were actually falling to the ground? I specifically remember them replacing items for that fiasco.

Coincidentally, I lost a ton of items to the ban bug at the same time. This was a bug that allowed friended players to your house to ban items to the front steps and then walk away with them. This was the same bug that allowed front doors to be banned in this manner if you remember seeing those. They did not replace any of the items I lost. GM Platinum did come and look and then basically said "sorry".

I guess I am saying that they have replaced items in the past. But their history has been hit and miss. I think your case is pretty cut and dry. They should give you new heritage tokens. However, it might be the case that GMs cannot create items to curb potential corruption from GMs. Can items be created "at will" in the game by gms or developers?

 

[AirmidCecht]

Congratulations Ailish, this is definitely a step in the right direction!

I am glad you got an official response that was not automated. It means someone has reviewed it and can use it as a training experience. Although you have not personally benefited and had your items replaced, we all benefit that you addressed it. Many players would have shrugged in disgust and vented incoherently and then let it go.

So thank you!

hrmmmm, wait a second here. I think a round of thanks is due.

If we cannot get customer service to recognize that when a GM does the boo-boo a bandage with a kiss is in order, then perhaps the players that offered before to help you with curtains will do so again because again, it is the principle involved here, not the actual item. I for one would like to offer whatever I have on your shard as a token of my thanks.

Hugs,
Airmid
(yes I am really really big on customer service)

 

[Sebrina]

Tiss a very good post without a rant... Comprehensive because you included the follow-up. I'd still like to know why the GM showed up at your house in the first place. Was he/she paged?

I had a picture once that lodged in a very strange possition. GM showed up when paged and simply dislodged it, giving it back to me and told me not to try placing the item back in that corner again...obviously a game bug.

 

[Landicine]

Years ago I placed a boat in a problematic spot. So problematic, that several rocks were going through the deck. This of course made the ship have a "cluttered deck." I pages a GM, and he used his power to move the entire ship to another spot where I could redeed it. I'm pretty sure it is within GM power to move objects in ways players can't. Also GMs can walk between walls and do all sorts of things. Why didn't he just make an axe in his own pack, walk through the wall or floor, axe the item to a deed, and hand it off? Or delete the items and make a new item of the exact same type? There are ways he could have solved the original problem had he actually known what he was doing (by maybe, receiving proper training).

I know there were times where GMs had too much liberty with their power, and some abused it. However, if they are actually causing problems they are unable to fix, that is just as bad.

In some ways, it almost seems like we have GMs that have become drones to policy, so much that they can't do their job (the minimum punishment is 24hour ban no matter what, we can't replace items even if we destroy them).

 

[Loqucious]

That is total crap, they should replace your item.

 

[Redxpanda]

I agree completely. It makes no sense to have GMs if you can't trust them with the god power. All you have now are people to ban and say they can't help you with that. There should be no worries about any of them abusing the power.

 

[Aboo]

Ailish,

I am not sure what shard you play, but if I have anything of interest to you on that shard you are welcome to it!

P.S. I read your original post and the picture you posted says "Napa Valley". I checked and I have several chars there but appears they don't have any heritage tokens. However, they each have a valentine box. You could have all of them and turn them in for points if you like.

 

[Infiniti]

Ailish if you are on the LS Shard pm me and I will give you a Heritage Token. Your posts have hopefully helped fix at least a small part of gm response.

 

[Ailish]

Tiss a very good post without a rant... Comprehensive because you included the follow-up. I'd still like to know why the GM showed up at your house in the first place. Was he/she paged?

Yes, I paged because the curtains place on the outside of the wall (in the void of a keep that is inaccessable).

For those offering tokens, thank you much, I do have a guildmate who will give me one. It isnt that I am game-poor, far from it, they are just a bit hard to find at a reasonable price currently Just because I have gold doesnt mean I wish to waste it lol

You are all correct, it is the principle that I was going after ... and am still trying to think of a way to take it higher up the ladder.

(Side note, when I was writing that post yesterday, I spent an hour trying to think of the word principle and it simply evaded me! Thank you Airmid for finally providing me with the word!)

 

[Richtor Darkbane]

Wow......

I think this situation could have been handled much more appropriately from the jump.

 

[Doomsday Dragon]

I think you make a pretty valid point with all of this. EA likes to twist the rules as needed and use them to cover for mistakes they make. I agree bad policy all around.

 

[Elric_Soban]

I wouldn't expect much.

Aside from the fact that I can still physically log into the servers, I have seen NO indication whatsoever in the past couple of months that UO even has a dev team.

 

[AirmidCecht]

I wouldn't expect much.

Aside from the fact that I can still physically log into the servers, I have seen NO indication whatsoever in the past couple of months that UO even has a dev team.

Thats a bit of a strrrreeeeetchhhh in my book. We've had lots to do, so much so we're just now getting a wee bit of a break. I don't like to blanket blame and why I've hopped on the Ailish bandwagon. She has been respectful and specific on what her problem was with a GM breaking her items in game and what she would like to fix it. I still feel it's a great opportunity for customer service to step up and show they are capable of fixing this one. It's an easy fix and one that shows less ego and more humility towards the community.

C'mon now, hat in hand, "I'm sorry I broke your items."

 

[Ailish]

Airmid has hit it very much on the head ... Customer Service could definitly get some GOOD press for once, if only they will step up and do the right thing. This game is supposed to be about Virtues ... it would be to their definite advantage to remember that ...

 

[Ailish]

Well, today I got a reply to my re-petition. It has some interesting aspects, which I will bold, tho they were not bolded in the original mail.

Greetings, and thank you again for contacting EA Online Support.

This issue has been reviewed, and unfortunately to say, we are unable to provide item restoration as this is not a power that in game support has. However, we understand your frustration in the matter and will take your ideas into account when addressing this policies change. I am very sorry for any inconvenience that this may cause, and deeply apologize for the trouble. If you would like to see any other policies changed, or services become available please feel free to submit feedback via the UO Herald. http://www.uoherald.com/feedback/index.php. If you have any other issues please do not hesitate to reply or submit another email to our support team. We appreciate your continued support of our products, and understanding of our policies. Thank you again for bringing this issue to our attention. Take care [use of my real name]. May your travels be adventurous!

EA Rep V----
Player Relations
Electronic Arts

Okay, this guy is very nice, but it is the SAME PERSON who answered me before. Nothing against him, but if I request a review of the review, should it not go to a person above him?

Second, the GM's no longer have the power to create in-game items? Okay, that could be a good thing, but it also speaks volumes about how lowly GMs actually are now. Added to the fact that they no longer use official tags in game (thus taking away their credibility to some extent) I am now wonder exactly what use they are beyond moving objects and taking someone to jail.

I guess now I push on to e-mail Jeremy again, hoping for a response this time. If the GM's cannot fix their own mistakes, apparently I need a developer, whom I get at via Jeremy? This is a sad situation.

In case anyone is interested, this is the message he was replying to:

I appreciate that the game staff will review what could have been done different, and hopefully this situation will not happen to another person.

However ... I disagree that this case falls under the policy of not replacing items. The reasoning for that policy is, specifically, that items lost in game to *in game mechanics *cannot be replaced by staff because there is not an easy way to prove what the item was in the posession of the person to begin with, and not having this policy would result in false claims of lost items. This has been stated numerous times by the game staff.

This case does not fall into that reasoning. The item was not lost to game mechanics, it was lost directly because of a staff memeber's actions. That staff member was aware at that time that they caused the destruction of the item. Yes, it was accidental, but that does not alter the facts. Further, I have screen shots showing the staff member and exactly what was done to the item in question. There can be zero doubt that I possessed said item, nor that it was lost to a staff memeber's actions, not game
mechanics.

There is also the principle behind the issue. If I do something in-game to break (cause a bug in) an item, I am held responsible for the situation. Equally, if a staff member does something in-game to break an item, they should, too, be held responsible. In this case, that would mean replacing the item. This *should* be EA/Mythic's policy on this subject, and if it is not, I would like to make sure that it comes to the attention of the appropriate person or people who can make a change in the policy.

I also feel that it is imperative that the new policy of Game Masters not having official tags in their name (either GM or EA) be reconsidered. I have actually had my character end up dead because I mistook the GM for a PC needing a resurrection. This resulted in a delay of the GM being able to assist me. It also takes credibility away from the staff that they no longer have their titles.

Thank you,

 

[AesSedai]

Consider if they did still have the power to restore and/or create items for others. Then consider if they have friends or even their own dummy accounts. That is one example of why I think they chose to make this a blanket policy ~ it minimizes the possibilities of corruption in addition to other benefits.
But in your case, it just causes pure frustration because the GM is the one who destroyed your legit item; and it probably did cause the GM's file to get a mark as well.. which is probably frustrating for the GM as well, because GM was truly trying to help you out, and the curtains kind of just blew-up on both of ya'll.

 

[Ailish]

AesSedai, I understand your point (which was where I said it could be a good thing that they no longer have that power). However, I do not have sympathy for the GM that "assisted" me. It was not just a "who knew that would happen thing", it was a failure of knowing the mechanics of the game s/he was supposed to be supporting. Hopefully this situation gets that GM some more training; but if I make a mistake for failing to know the mechanics of my job, I SHOULD get a mark on my record.

 

[AesSedai]

- Hehe :blush:
I knew I was feeling a case of the deja vu.
Probably 95% of all other stuck house decorations would have come out just fine, but the curtains were an exception & we all know that sometimes stupid stuff happens.
I'm trying to make light of the situation, sure; but I'm not at all trying to begrudge you for being frustrated.

 

[Mitzlplik_SP]

Wow,all this over some curtains.

 

[Ailish]

*sigh* It isnt the curtains. Those are easily replaced. It is the principle. What if it had been a pair of Inquis the GM destroyed? A server rare?

Remember, just a couple days ago a GM didnt know that the corroded box was supposed to be a keepsake, and that it has an issue (announced by Jeremy) and was going to destroy it for another player. Is that okay that our GM's are so *not knowledgable* about our game that they will just destroy things they dont know about??

 

[Viper09]

*sigh* It isnt the curtains. Those are easily replaced. It is the principle. What if it had been a pair of Inquis the GM destroyed? A server rare?

Remember, just a couple days ago a GM didnt know that the corroded box was supposed to be a keepsake, and that it has an issue (announced by Jeremy) and was going to destroy it for another player. Is that okay that our GM's are so *not knowledgable* about our game that they will just destroy things they dont know about??

I understand the whole thing on the principle. I'm sure if some took the time to actually think it over before posting they would understand it as well, hopefully. I do think they should replace the item just because of the fact that a GM actually destroyed it after trying to fix it.
It could even happen to really poor people in the game who just happen to have bought a token, suddenly they are out X number of gold and/or effort to actually get it. Not everyone in UO is rich.

 

[AirmidCecht]

Well done on the follow up letter Ailish! I whole heartedly agree on your point, it is not the curtains but if someone were here saying they deleted something that was irreplaceable the line would be long with daggers and knives poking the point to death.

Between this and the corroded box issue, it is highlighting to people who should be aware of this that some better training is definitely in order. Thank you again for sticking with it like a dog on a bone.

 

[NuSair]

Wow,all this over some curtains.

This isn't about just some single item in the game, and if you can't see it, maybe you need chlorine in your genepool.