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Mechanic
Guest
I hate moving shot as much as the next guy, but DCI will take care of that.
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RenaLynne
Guest
Really? Ever tried to hit someone with 120 Parry on archer? Its not easy.
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Connor_Graham
Guest
PvP Archers have been nerfed so bad PvM Archer's felt it slide up their backside, without lubrication. Archers have been nerfed enough already, they certainly don't need any more. Max out your DCI and get Parry. Problem solved.
And please don't tell me mages always die to archers. I personally love fighting archers on my necro mage. Blood Oath + protection and let them kill themselves with a well timed flamestrike to end it.
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
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Splup
Guest
When did archers get nerfed?
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Vex
Guest
I 2nd this. With 120 Archery and Max HCI, I'm lucky if I can hit a person with 120 Parry half the time. Seriously ....
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Atlantian
Guest
You must be going up against armatures then. Haven't met a necro mage yet that can't be owned. And that's before breakfast!And please don't tell me mages always die to archers. I personally love fighting archers on my necro mage. Blood Oath + protection and let them kill themselves with a well timed flamestrike to end it.
Problem solved.
Those archers are not very good, I suspect... When a necro blood oaths you, the archer can simply spam Concussion Blow, as the damage from the concussion will not be reflected. Bye Bye Necro!And please don't tell me mages always die to archers. I personally love fighting archers on my necro mage. Blood Oath + protection and let them kill themselves with a well timed flamestrike to end it.
Problem solved.
Ya adapt and let me know how that works out for you...sick of babies cryin for the nerf stick to my lil archer...Everyone's an archer now.
Do I need to say more? Mortal Wound, Moving Shot, Concussion, crazy normal damage, no need for complementary skills other than damage modifiers.....
In fact nevermind, I'm making one myself. "Adapt".
Seriously? when haven't they....deathstrike?Splup said:
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Revenant2
Guest
I think you're missing how that archer template really works out.Everyone's an archer now.
Do I need to say more? Mortal Wound, Moving Shot, Concussion, crazy normal damage, no need for complementary skills other than damage modifiers.....
In fact nevermind, I'm making one myself. "Adapt".
Archery's been so nerfed that in order to be a charge-out-there kill-people archer, people have to build exactly what you describe. They build for a lot of damage and dont have room for "complementary skills" no matter how much they might like to incorporate them.
You end up with the same template as anyone else, except some people trade between their magic resist and bushido.
I'd love to have hiding on my archer.... or more med... or maybe med+focus.. or maybe add bushido on top of magic resist. It can't happen though.
There are stealth ninja archer templates that do well, that's a different type of template and the ninjitsu is used both aggressively and defensively. Upon failed kill attempts it often escapes (heh).
This is essentially correct, but, I feel like I personally haven't had enough time living with the recent changes to blood oath to get a sense for how well a 120 resist archer really does against a solo necromage.And please don't tell me mages always die to archers. I personally love fighting archers on my necro mage. Blood Oath + protection and let them kill themselves with a well timed flamestrike to end it.
Problem solved.
Templates that carry high parry plus high DCI seem to be unable to be killed by archers that don't have 2 weapon skills (one for disarming), and I judge that to be intentional by the developers because it's so obvious in gameplay.
Archery is a no talent lame skill but there are definately ways to counter it. The biggest problem I see is of the the speedhacking variety. You know, the ones that blip off and even if you dismount them they are nearly as fast on foot? If you ask me banning and or fixing the speedhacks would do more for balance in pvp then any tinkering around with skillsets. Taking care of speedhackers would be the best thing they could do to fix pvp. There are a few lame things in pvp right now but nothing thats all that ridiculous. The speedhacking is the only thing thats so rampant that it needs the immediate attention of the devs.
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Atlantian
Guest
quote from dukarlo
"Archery is a no talent lame skill"
You don't like archers because you obviously have been owned by a few in the past. You can say the same about magery and taming. The only true skills are that of the warrior.
"Archery is a no talent lame skill"
You don't like archers because you obviously have been owned by a few in the past. You can say the same about magery and taming. The only true skills are that of the warrior.
H
Hunters Moon
Guest
What I hate is an archer that is using a repeating crossbow and has "god-mode" 150+ dex. The repeater becomes a machine gun.Everyone's an archer now.
Do I need to say more? Mortal Wound, Moving Shot, Concussion, crazy normal damage, no need for complementary skills other than damage modifiers.....
In fact nevermind, I'm making one myself. "Adapt".
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Walkerboh77
Guest
its funny....up until recently ive been gone from this game for 8 years or so....
but not 1 week goes bye on this forum where someone isnt complaining....and its always something different
the first week i started back it was chiv
the next week it was sampires....
the next week it was mages
the next week it was necros via evil omen
the next week it was tamers
now we've come to archers....
look people....not everything can be OPd.....accept that in most cases its you or your play style thats inadequate
not directed at anyone in particular....just something i feel that needed to be said in my short time back
but not 1 week goes bye on this forum where someone isnt complaining....and its always something different
the first week i started back it was chiv
the next week it was sampires....
the next week it was mages
the next week it was necros via evil omen
the next week it was tamers
now we've come to archers....
look people....not everything can be OPd.....accept that in most cases its you or your play style thats inadequate
not directed at anyone in particular....just something i feel that needed to be said in my short time back
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Syfka
Guest
quote from dukarlo
"Archery is a no talent lame skill"
You don't like archers because you obviously have been owned by a few in the past. You can say the same about magery and taming. The only true skills are that of the warrior.
I completely agree with you, and these people who are B****ing about archers need to shut up because what you say is true the only true skills are those of a warrior
Exactly,
In the past I got into alot of the pvp discussions about which skills/items were overpowered, but I've really gotten to the point that I don't care anymore.
Until the Devs get off their worthless asses and do something about all the speedhacking, script running cheaters in pvp..... it is pointless to try and "balance" anything else.
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Shanna
Guest
You forgot medic scripts. Nothing like someone getting poisoned and healing it before their health bar even went green.
Every skill takes some kind of talent though. Timing and proper use can make any skill powerful on the field. (By proper use, I mean, don't put your pure mage against a circling archer XD )
Where are these archers fighting that they see 120 parry and max dci beyond a few useless mana dump mages at yew gate? meanwhile anywhere else that kind of mage can't survive because they aren't capable of competing in high end sustained group pvp.
The only issues with archery are that hit effects (HLA, HLD, HL, HF,) all work perfectly despite the obvious range. it simply unbalances the weapons as everyone else has to be on top of someone to make use of that. meanwhile it's as though archers suffer no draw backs at all. A small penalty to the effectiveness of those spells or simply a slight decrease in the percentage based on range would make things very fair.
If for example an archer were 2 tiles from their target they should benefit fully from their effects but if they're across the screen, why shouldnt they suffer a minor draw back to keep things in line?
The only issues with archery are that hit effects (HLA, HLD, HL, HF,) all work perfectly despite the obvious range. it simply unbalances the weapons as everyone else has to be on top of someone to make use of that. meanwhile it's as though archers suffer no draw backs at all. A small penalty to the effectiveness of those spells or simply a slight decrease in the percentage based on range would make things very fair.
If for example an archer were 2 tiles from their target they should benefit fully from their effects but if they're across the screen, why shouldnt they suffer a minor draw back to keep things in line?
HLd will take care, partially, of DCI. No wonder they are all running around with mace and shiled glasses.
S
Shanna
Guest
You say nerf greater dragons right now but when you need a meatshield against a boss like Melissa, you'd think twice.omg archers have been nurfed enough! if u wanna nurf something nurf greater dragons, stealthers and dismounting!
How would you nerf stealthers? Make a 120 revealable? Why not make a 120 mage fizzle on their spells while we're at it? Somethings need to make sense.
And dismounting... The most popular way to dismount is to use an archer XD That's too funny.
ok let me reword it. nurf greater dragon in PvP. Greater dragon cant attack player runned chars or make faction MI work against tamed pets like it did before. MI broke if u attacked the tamer.
also im from SP we got different rule set then reg shards. its a lot easier to be a stealther here then it is on a reg shard, we dont have passive detect here. and by dismount i mean bolas. it should need to be a skill or use a skill.
I have had to shelf my Archer, Everyone(ok all the blues) now have high pary and DCI and some through in westling which makes it near on imposble to hit. So i have now taken up Fencing...which is take these noobs down faster than they can run...I can still dismount i just got ot use a pitch fork now or a bola...but with a pitch fork they dont see it comming 
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Ericge99
Guest
Quoted: If for example an archer were 2 tiles from their target they should benefit fully from their effects but if they're across the screen, why shouldnt they suffer a minor draw back to keep things in line?
Because mages dont suffer the same penalty when casting their spells... MMM food for thought....... spells loose intensity over range, now that sounds good!
I play several archer types .. and yes its hard to hit someone wearing a lot of DCI even though I've high to max HCI.
Mages on the other hand, still cast and hit, and don't tell me their subject to spell disruption ... I've seen mages cast .. totaly oblivious to hits received.
Because mages dont suffer the same penalty when casting their spells... MMM food for thought....... spells loose intensity over range, now that sounds good!
I play several archer types .. and yes its hard to hit someone wearing a lot of DCI even though I've high to max HCI.
Mages on the other hand, still cast and hit, and don't tell me their subject to spell disruption ... I've seen mages cast .. totaly oblivious to hits received.
Dude, I'm not gonna start attacking any play style here, but seriously, magery is the skill that requires the most skill to play well. It really is a no contest, no other skill comes close.quote from dukarlo
"Archery is a no talent lame skill"
You don't like archers because you obviously have been owned by a few in the past. You can say the same about magery and taming. The only true skills are that of the warrior.
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Revenant2
Guest
I don't think it takes parrying as high as 120 to create the effect. The max DCI portion of that is seen all over the place, and you absolutely do get high parry examples around at raids and such.
If you're an archer you know which ones they are... they are the ones which, when you finally get a dismount shot that connects, it goes "plink" instead of dismounting the guy. And at that point you realize you've just wasted a whole buncha time trying to dismount someone that basically can't be.
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galefan2004
Guest
Archers are by far more oped then tamers in both PvM and PvP, but no one ever actually complains about them...go figure.
The problem with archery, and any dexer/chiv template is that the weapons are extremely overpowered. No one should be running around with weapons that have 50x5 mods.
exactly, why the hell should we have to get parry just to stay alive? i already have 45 DCI. that should at least count for something.
the problem is with HLD/mortal wound/dismount in combination with every weapon having 50 life leech 50 mana leech 50 stamina leech etc..
it has gotten out of control.
Oh Gads Cry me a river already. Every day someone is crying nerf, nerf, nerf... you know maybe they should make spells parryable??? Maybe they should nerf the fact that without spamming evade there is NO way to block a spell.... don't tell me about spell resist.... that spell has been dorked up for a long long time... Spell resist doesn't do squat for the 120 points it requires... Stay human and get a trapped chest works just as well.... (eat orange petals)... Useless waste of 120 points.
Archers can not bleed, unless they use moving shot which lowers their hit anyway they have to stand still to shoot, they can not disarm and if you have a high parry and max out your DCI they can hardly ever hit you even with 120 archer, 120 anat and 120 tactics with HCI maxed. With all that might hit a person with 120 Parry and max DCI 2 in 10 times... Might.... however unlikely...
So go whine somewhere else... I'm tired of getting nerfed. Get a better template... fix your poor armor and quit your whining.... every skill has it's advantages and disadvantages... learn what yours are and then build on your strengths and try to protect your weakness's just like the rest of us. Either learn to use the skills you have or get new ones apparently your not good at using yours... We all learn to adapt to survive. So quit being a Neanderthal and start adapting already...
Whaa! Whaa! Whaa! *rolls eyes, sliding back into the shadows to find them and smack them with a good dismount*
Archers can not bleed, unless they use moving shot which lowers their hit anyway they have to stand still to shoot, they can not disarm and if you have a high parry and max out your DCI they can hardly ever hit you even with 120 archer, 120 anat and 120 tactics with HCI maxed. With all that might hit a person with 120 Parry and max DCI 2 in 10 times... Might.... however unlikely...
So go whine somewhere else... I'm tired of getting nerfed. Get a better template... fix your poor armor and quit your whining.... every skill has it's advantages and disadvantages... learn what yours are and then build on your strengths and try to protect your weakness's just like the rest of us. Either learn to use the skills you have or get new ones apparently your not good at using yours... We all learn to adapt to survive. So quit being a Neanderthal and start adapting already...
Whaa! Whaa! Whaa! *rolls eyes, sliding back into the shadows to find them and smack them with a good dismount*
Malag there's no need to get all pissy and personal about it. Actually that illustrates to me that you know your template is overpowered and would be furious if they changed it because then you wouldn't be able to kill people anymore at your mediocre skill level.
I'm not sure why you think you should be able to easily take down someone with 45 DCI and 120 parry.
I'm not sure why you think you should be able to easily take down someone with 45 DCI and 120 parry.
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ElRay
Guest
LOL! good joke!!!
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ElRay
Guest
Sooooo, taking up another weaponskill instead of archery is going to help you hit your targets easier by how exactly????I have had to shelf my Archer, Everyone(ok all the blues) now have high pary and DCI and some through in westling which makes it near on imposble to hit. So i have now taken up Fencing...which is take these noobs down faster than they can run...I can still dismount i just got ot use a pitch fork now or a bola...but with a pitch fork they dont see it comming
Seriously, are these the only types of players left in this game?? If so, LOL!
Sup Dukarlo! still fighting the good fight against hacks I see
-Mr Mojo
NO I know my strengths and weaknesses as an archer per what I'm opposing.... I know Dexxers who take me...... I know mages who take me..... One on one.... I can hold my own ok but not that well..... I have 200 points wrapped up in hiding and stealth.... that don't leave a whole bunch for fighting skills... You figure out what I'm missing... LIke I said EVERY template has strengths and weakness's.... It's your job to know what yours are ...... and how to use them against your opponent... if you can't do that..... don't whine... and don't cry nerf.... it's lame...
To be completely honest about the whole thing since AoS and all came out and totally wrecked up the whole system and changed it from skill based to item based..... What's sad is now my cap isn't 720.... I'm at 820.. From items and junk
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Simon Francis
Guest
Nerf Greater DragonsLets play a game. Every time someone whines about archery, take a shot.
And just for kicks, lets add in people whining about taming and necromancy.
Last one standing wins!
Let the drinking begin!
Nerf Super Mares
Nerf Concussion Blow
Nerf Lightning Strike
Nerf Strangle
Nerf Potions
Nerf Archery
Nerf Trapped Boxes
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Masumatek
Guest
Archery doesn't need nerfed. But the ability to use specials at the low mana cost people can does.
All specials should cost their base mana cost regardless of how many points in whatever skills you have.
LMC should be capped much lower.
All specials should cost their base mana cost regardless of how many points in whatever skills you have.
LMC should be capped much lower.
You try it! As an archer i cant hit certan people due to there HCI and parry...i change weapons to Kyrs and low and behold im hiting 7 out of 10 times insted of missing 7 out of 10 times
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wee papa smurf
Guest
I personally dont think archers need nerfed mages and other temps have ways of blocking arrows/bolts but archers have no way of defendin against spells even with 120 resist thats only useful for poison and para, just get a good suit and high phys resist you'l be fine, on my mage i have 45% dci and 120 parry and 120 wrestle and i do fine against them 
The equation for deciding your chance to hit would be exactly the same whether you use bow or kryss, so the reason you are hitting more has absolutely nothing to do with the fact you're using a melee skill.
Contrarily, it will be harder to hit because you have to get within a square of the enemy.
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Vyrquenox
Guest
In fairness I have an archer yet I still slap at archers because I find them amusing and no fun to play. That's me. I don't see why they need nerfing. In fact, how about instead of nerfing things to balance things out to the lowest common denominator, work on bringing other things up to the bar.
Well guys here's what happens every time I go to PvP.
I see 8 archers and 2 mages.
Dismount archers, disarm archers. No other flavours.
80% of those archers use either MoveShot/Mortal Wound.
The rest use Concussion/Mortal.
Bows all Balanced(what a load of horse-****). Like, they do Confidence from JOAT bonus, chug a pot and they're back to full heal.. while you're running AT THEM or FROM THEM, which makes no difference with MoveShot.
Most have Velocity or Spell.
SSI's up to 40%..
And their normal shots from bow are 28-30.
For instance I'm usually being hit by a total of 50-60 Hp or for 40 on the run(if you calculate the spell on the bow).
I have 147 HP, 45%+ DCI and GM Parry- admittedly not 120 but I don't see that helping with HLD.
And you wanna tell me it's fine? Okay it's fine. I won't argue with THAT cruel reasoning of UHallers.
I see 8 archers and 2 mages.
Dismount archers, disarm archers. No other flavours.
80% of those archers use either MoveShot/Mortal Wound.
The rest use Concussion/Mortal.
Bows all Balanced(what a load of horse-****). Like, they do Confidence from JOAT bonus, chug a pot and they're back to full heal.. while you're running AT THEM or FROM THEM, which makes no difference with MoveShot.
Most have Velocity or Spell.
SSI's up to 40%..
And their normal shots from bow are 28-30.
For instance I'm usually being hit by a total of 50-60 Hp or for 40 on the run(if you calculate the spell on the bow).
I have 147 HP, 45%+ DCI and GM Parry- admittedly not 120 but I don't see that helping with HLD.
And you wanna tell me it's fine? Okay it's fine. I won't argue with THAT cruel reasoning of UHallers.
Well guys here's what happens every time I go to PvP.
I see 8 archers and 2 mages.
Dismount archers, disarm archers. No other flavours.
80% of those archers use either MoveShot/Mortal Wound.
The rest use Concussion/Mortal.
Bows all Balanced(what a load of horse-****). Like, they do Confidence from JOAT bonus, chug a pot and they're back to full heal.. while you're running AT THEM or FROM THEM, which makes no difference with MoveShot.
Most have Velocity or Spell.
SSI's up to 40%..
And their normal shots from bow are 28-30.
For instance I'm usually being hit by a total of 50-60 Hp or for 40 on the run(if you calculate the spell on the bow).
I have 147 HP, 45%+ DCI and GM Parry- admittedly not 120 but I don't see that helping with HLD.
And you wanna tell me it's fine? Okay it's fine. I won't argue with THAT cruel reasoning of UHallers.
Admit it you suck....get a better suit, learn to play or go away
This necro mage has only met maybe two archers that can kill me 1vs1. I'll be glad to demonstrate. I am on LS, and can be reached via ICQ anytime i'm in game.
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Connor_Graham
Guest
You make it easier for others to hit you by both not having over the max DCI to compensate for getting hit by HLD, and also by not having 120 Parry. Both of those factored together make it a lot easier for an enemy to hit you.