Factions - the most annoying parts still untouched?

[Olahorand]

Hail,
for me there are two issues, which make it uninteresting to join factions:
1. The non beneficial acts thing even in Trammel rules facet. The char cannot join any good hunt, because if he dies that was it, and even the pet of the faction char will never get ressed on several shards with underpopulated factions.

2. The total ranking based exclusively on Killing points.
So the role of the thief, who steals the town sigils, is totally ignored, as well as the role of the crafter, who maybe is putting on faction traps.
Why is a career in the faction denied for supporting characters at all?

As long as these two items are not changed, I assume I will never again join a faction.
*Salute*
Olahorand

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

For item number 1. Come to Siege. No trammel...no worries...la

 

[Crysta]

I'd have to say "wait and see".. I think there's more coming. I think Jeremy specified what's now on Test as the "first round of Publish 54 changes" for a reason.

 

[Lynk]

For item number 1. Come to Siege. No trammel...no worries...la

you spend 3 mos making me a character so i dont have to, then ill come...la

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Why? I started a new account so I could join the factions fun. I joined factions the first day, why is it so tough for you to do that?...la

 

[JC the Builder]

2. The total ranking based exclusively on Killing points.
So the role of the thief, who steals the town sigils, is totally ignored, as well as the role of the crafter, who maybe is putting on faction traps.
Why is a career in the faction denied for supporting characters at all?

How exactly is a thief supposed to be rewarded? One point every time a sigil is stolen? Thieving would quickly become the easiest and fastest way to rack up points. Two faction thieves could even collaborate and just run sigils back and forth all day long getting hundreds of points.

Stealing is just the method of moving sigils. Thieves are not the main event in factions and don't need to get easy points which take some people a long time to earn.

 

[Willow30]

But thieves need to have some sort of reward.. We work our tails off getting sigs back and forth.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Maybe a thief gets some points once a town has been taken by the faction they the stole the sigil for. Sure it would require a team effort, but at least that eliminates the chance of point hording as you suggested.

Maybe a thief gets points from stealing items from opposing faction members. Steal x amount of faction silver...get y amount of faction points. there has got to be someway to get thieves more love in the game. It might as well be in factions...la

 

[JC the Builder]

But thieves need to have some sort of reward.. We work our tails off getting sigs back and forth.

Yes, it is such tiring work to use your stealing skill on a stationary object and then passing that object onto another faction player to run back to your base. rolleyes:

Maybe a thief gets some points once a town has been taken by the faction they the stole the sigil for.

That would probably work and should be quite easy to implement.

 

[Willow30]

Its just not the stealing of the sigil, its getting in and out of the base around traps, guards, and players.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Thieves do most of the work and definitely need a reward of some kind.

As to your #1? While I agree this should be changed I must say that since I joined Factions again this has not been a significant obstacle. I'm still doing to Doom, still working the events, still doing Peerlesses.

-Galen's player

Hail,
for me there are two issues, which make it uninteresting to join factions:
1. The non beneficial acts thing even in Trammel rules facet. The char cannot join any good hunt, because if he dies that was it, and even the pet of the faction char will never get ressed on several shards with underpopulated factions.

2. The total ranking based exclusively on Killing points.
So the role of the thief, who steals the town sigils, is totally ignored, as well as the role of the crafter, who maybe is putting on faction traps.
Why is a career in the faction denied for supporting characters at all?

As long as these two items are not changed, I assume I will never again join a faction.
*Salute*
Olahorand

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Its just not the stealing of the sigil, its getting in and out of the base around traps, guards, and players.

Anyone with hide and stealth can do that. It doesn't deserve faction points. The act of stealing the sigil doesn't actually requires skill. The key is if the sigil is placed and a town converts to their faction's control. If that doesn't happen...all the other work is moot.

That being said, a faction thief can get faction points by farming faction critters. Personally, I find Daemons the easiest...but wisps can be found in more areas (those are what I farm)...la

 

[Prince Caspian]

There also needs to be rules against placing opposing Faction Guards inside someone's damn HQ.

I mean its pathetic. On Sonoma the CoM rule supreme and have packed the TB's castle to bursting with insta-death NPCs. We can't even get in just to check the damn faction stone, much less try to take towns.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

You could always learn how to kill those guards. Novel idea, huh?...la

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Anyone with hide and stealth can do that. It doesn't deserve faction points. The act of stealing the sigil doesn't actually requires skill.

Umm....Maybe not on Siege or wherever you play? I personally can't imagine Factions without my thieves. I'd be wandering around looking for oranges and that's all Factions would be.

That being said, a faction thief can get faction points by farming faction critters. Personally, I find Daemons the easiest...but wisps can be found in more areas (those are what I farm)...la

Umm.....

I have never gotten a single Faction point by killing a Faction monster. ("Credits," or "silver," and "points" are not the same thing, at least not how most Factioners seem to use the terms.)

Nothing about points and monsters on the Playguide either.

http://guide.uo.com/factions_3.html

http://guide.uo.com/factions_9.html

Either you're talking about something different than I'm thinking of, or it works differently on Siege or wherever it is you play.

-Galen's player

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Oh that's right, you don't have hero/evil powers on the production shards. I just wish Siege would bring back the abilty to have pet protection like we used to have...that would eliminate these faction tamers...quick and easy...la

Faction characters will gain 1 lifeforce point for each faction enemy monster which that character kills.
The maximum number of lifeforce attainable is 100 points.
Players will be able to spend lifeforce points toward special Hero/Evil powers. Players will be able to use a special phrase ("I invoke my good powers," for Hero characters, and "I invoke my evil powers," for Evil characters) to bring up a special menu through which they may control the following effects:
Colored Armor (5 lifeforce points; duration is permanent; turns an article of armor or clothing white for Hero, black for Evil)
Detect Evil/Good (1 lifeforce point; duration is immediate; allows Hero character to scan the area for Evil, and Evil to scan for good)
Summon familiar (10 lifeforce points; duration is 30 minutes; allows character to summon a familiar to fight for the character, silver wolf for Hero or dark wolf for Evil)
Bless (60 lifeforce points; duration is 30 minutes; temporarily “blesses” one equipable item, item will note time remaining)
Silver/Dark Steed (30 lifeforce points; duration is 30 minutes; creates a silver steed for Hero character to ride, or dark steed for Evil character)
Holy/Unholy Shield (40 lifeforce points; duration is 60 minutes; character is ignored by all monsters and faction guards while this power is active)

 

[Prince Caspian]

You could always learn how to kill those guards. Novel idea, huh?...la

Sure. If there's a class for how to take out 50 one-hit-kills-you NPCs.... hell, a class for getting ONE hit in, I'll be sure to enroll.

 

[galefan2004]

Hail,
for me there are two issues, which make it uninteresting to join factions:
1. The non beneficial acts thing even in Trammel rules facet. The char cannot join any good hunt, because if he dies that was it, and even the pet of the faction char will never get ressed on several shards with underpopulated factions.

I totally agree. However, you can res faction pets as long as they are not guarding the person in the faction. I do not know if that is a bug or not, but I know I've done it.

The work around is to have those that you hunt with normally join factions with you, or start hunting with your faction members.

2. The total ranking based exclusively on Killing points.
So the role of the thief, who steals the town sigils, is totally ignored, as well as the role of the crafter, who maybe is putting on faction traps.
Why is a career in the faction denied for supporting characters at all?

I am pretty sure (unless they changed it) that the crafter gets points from kills from those traps. However, I agree they need to make it so thiefs can gain points. On the other hand, thiefs are one of the few faction templates that are in no way affected by stat loss (they can still steal sigils in stat loss).

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Oh that's right, you don't have hero/evil powers on the production shards. I just wish Siege would bring back the abilty to have pet protection like we used to have...that would eliminate these faction tamers...quick and easy...la

So, now we are back to where we started: On the shards the vast majority of players play on, thieves play a critical and mostly uncompensated role.

Hell, having 75 (100? 200?) "successful" steals (defined as when a steal results in a city actually being taken over) equal a single kill point would work.

I adore "my" thieves.

-Galen's player

 

[Tina Small]

Sure. If there's a class for how to take out 50 one-hit-kills-you NPCs.... hell, a class for getting ONE hit in, I'll be sure to enroll.

Hmmm, PC, if I can kill those guards in a few hits, you should be able to as well. The trick is to only take on a couple at a time.

 

[Olahorand]

For item number 1. Come to Siege. No trammel...no worries...la

and it is not less painfull to get killed, fall in stat loss and have nobody who could ress you (besides wandering healers) or your pets.
I had chars in faction on Siege, so I know what I talk about.
There is no faction chat similar to guild or alliance, so if you are alone, you are alone. On top my playing times on Siege as a European player are not the same as of the others as well.

Maybe the blockade of beneficial acts should only apply for chars in stat loss. So a character being killed in a non faction conflict would not be affected by this limitation any more.

*Salute*
Olahorand

 

[Googly]

My main is a faction thief. I'll set my alarm clock and wake up a couple hours earlier than Id like to make sure those sigils stay refreshed. I've managed to get in and out of SL base with 3 mages fielding while archers and tamers and trackers hunted me down. Since day one of factions Ive been running all 8 sigils by my lonesome on many a day, often multiple times a day. During defenses I dismount, disarm, paralyze, and track. Support to the fullest.

All that said...I would be completely against them giving any sort of reward to faction thieves.

If you need profit and rewards to be a thief, you don't belong as a thief. To me that makes you no better then your common crate thief, who should be killed on sight for their utter disregard of the Code.

The ultimate reward as a faction support character is knowing that few others want to commit to it. That without you...the faction dies.

That would also bring me to my hate for the multi-characters per account deal....but I'll leave that one alone.

 

[kelmo]

I disagree. The thieves, tinkers and hopefully soon the crafters should get some recognition. A master thief that is skillful, resourceful and successful should be recognized.

 

[Masumatek]

Hail,
for me there are two issues, which make it uninteresting to join factions:
1. The non beneficial acts thing even in Trammel rules facet. The char cannot join any good hunt, because if he dies that was it, and even the pet of the faction char will never get ressed on several shards with underpopulated factions.

2. The total ranking based exclusively on Killing points.
So the role of the thief, who steals the town sigils, is totally ignored, as well as the role of the crafter, who maybe is putting on faction traps.
Why is a career in the faction denied for supporting characters at all?

As long as these two items are not changed, I assume I will never again join a faction.
*Salute*
Olahorand

I've always disagreed with any kill point system. It encourages reskilling, naked killing, ganking, and cheating the system using alts. Insurance also encourages the first three things I mentioned.

 

[Arabella]

A master thief that is skillful, resourceful and successful should be recognized.

Well said Kelmo, I have worked my tail off to be a successful thief for the most part on Great Lakes. There is a lot of time, effort and thought put into playing a thief. There is nothing compared to the ablility to sneak in the base and steal a sigil out from under the opposing factions nose.

 

[AZ-]

Most people just run with 50 steal and use some jewels. No points!

 

[Olahorand]

If you need profit and rewards to be a thief, you don't belong as a thief.

humm - isn't a real thief stealing for his own profit first?
And if he does so for the faction, he should be recognized, since without them the sigils could not be taken at all.
Maybe make it so, that the sigil will have to stay 6 hours untouched in the thiefs base to get rewarded.

And believe it or not - also supporting characters may wish to not only buy, but also ride a faction war horse or be able to get a honorfull faction title.

If this is done by "Killpoints" or something else equally valued is not important - but it should be done.
*Salute*
Olahorand

 

[Googly]

If you keep a score of 0 you should be able to ride the horses. If you go into negatives, your rank will easily fall to 1, where you wont be able to. So either stop dieing or figure out a way to get some kills. My thief is rank 10.

Also, any sensible thief shouldn't want a pet in their stable. If I have to explain why, then you haven't done enough as a faction thief to be in here complaining. Arabella being the exception, since shes her faction's only decent thief anyway.

But, you're right about the profit thing. Though when I steal a stack of bandies, regs, or pots, it has nothing to do with profit. It has to do with helping my buddies get their kill easier. They get the glory, I get the knowledge of knowing they'd have failed without me.

But all this is null.

Heres the main subject of this whole thread: You want a reward for stealing sigils. Not for being a good tracker, or stealing their supplies so they cant fight. You want it for stealing and running sigils. Thats silly, because I've seen plenty of mages, archers, and dexxers do it by throwing on some jewely and shadow dancers leggings. Walk in, steal, walk out. Do they deserve extra "points" for doing something so simple?

 

[Tina Small]

Also, any sensible thief shouldn't want a pet in their stable. If I have to explain why, then you haven't done enough as a faction thief to be in here complaining.

Thanks, Googly. I was going to point this out yesterday but figured it's better to let people figure that one out on their own.

Heres the main subject of this whole thread: You want a reward for stealing sigils. Not for being a good tracker, or stealing their supplies so they cant fight. You want it for stealing and running sigils. Thats silly, because I've seen plenty of mages, archers, and dexxers do it by throwing on some jewely and shadow dancers leggings. Walk in, steal, walk out. Do they deserve extra "points" for doing something so simple?

Agreed 100%.

I'm not trying to discount at all what thieves do. However, the truth is that on many shards, it's often quite easy to steal the sigils and run them. On other shards, it is quite a feat to grab them and get them out of a base right under the enemies' noses. Unfortunately, the game has no way to recognize the difference between easy conditions and difficult conditions. Also I can imagine that if you started awarding some kind of points for stealing sigils, that point system could be as easily manipulated as the kill point system often is.

I don't know what the answer is for changing the current rules to give more recognition and/or more rewards to "supporting characters." I guess if you are fortunate to be able to play with decent people who also spend part of their time playing "supporting characters," you may find that game-supplied recognition and rewards aren't needed. Being part of a good team where everyone pitches in to help and having fun together is more than sufficient.

 

[Tina Small]

Hail,
So the role of the thief, who steals the town sigils, is totally ignored, as well as the role of the crafter, who maybe is putting on faction traps.
Why is a career in the faction denied for supporting characters at all?

I believe that there is an option for characters with GM or higher level of a crafting skill to use the faction stone (in the stronghold's sigil room) to declare themselves a faction crafter and be able to ride a war horse. A guildmate has been experimenting with it on a couple of shards and kind of came to the conclusion that it's a bit buggy, though. Seemed to work on some shards but not on others.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

That would also bring me to my hate for the multi-characters per account deal....but I'll leave that one alone.

*cough*siegefixesthat*cough*...la

 

[Arabella]

Why thank you for the compliment on my abilities, but Hawksley is pretty darn gone good hisself. I am trying to figure out who you are and I think you might possible be my second favorite thief from TB, but Tinkz is #1.

LOL oh Scoundrel that is a good name for you. I played factions on Siege a year or so ago. It was defintely a good time with Magnolia and Fid. Thankfully I had my son in law character to play, cause when I hit the last part of Rot on my character I quit.

My hat goes off to you all Siege Players, because you all are a different breed of Players over on Siege!

 

[Googly]

Siege is too twisted for me, anymore, Scoundrel. I loved it pre-AoS...even kept up with it post-AoS a bit.

But its a pathetic attempt to mix old-school and new-school, now.

If Siege took a purely pre-AoS style, I'd happily continue playing my rogue mage and thief over there. Fighting a guy with bushido or a 120/120 scribe mage who can drop me in 2 hits because I can't wear good armor just isn't my thing.