Making UO Simpler on Users, Regardless of Client

[RaDian FlGith]

I know there are many people that think AoS item properties should never have happened, I've always felt that -- had EA handled it better -- item properties and resists would have been much better. Of course, part of this problem is that they don't seem to make any sense (and sometimes no difference... I mean with a 70 physical resist shouldn't I last more than 2 hits to a balron?), but the other part is it's very cumbersome to build a suit of high resists.

One thing I would suggest to make this less intimidating is a simple interface (in the 2D client, it could be added to the view item modes, and while I have no idea where it could be added in the KR client, I'm sure it could be put in). It looks simply like this:

Just a simple little thing would make comparing stuff a lot easier. Yeah, you'd still have to do some swapping stuff out to build your suit, but you could tell at a glance if the item you are hovering over would make any serious, significant differences to you.

 

[Shelleybean]

If I'm not mistaken, the KR client has this, or something close to it. I'd sure like it in the legacy client though.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

If it does, they've buried it deep in the documentationless interface somewhere. :/ And really, isn't KR supposed to be more user intuitive? *sigh*

 

[Zym Dragon]

KR doesn't currently show whether or not a piece of armor is better or worse than what you are wearing. It may be possible to add a mod for that however.

KR does add up all of your resists and mods though and shows them in the status menu (in the paperdoll). You can also drag any/all of the icons into a hotbar slot(s) for easier viewing.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

KR doesn't currently show whether or not a piece of armor is better or worse than what you are wearing. It may be possible to add a mod for that however.

KR does add up all of your resists and mods though and shows them in the status menu (in the paperdoll). You can also drag any/all of the icons into a hotbar slot(s) for easier viewing.

I didnt get it at first.
Very clever now that it makes sense.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Well, one thing I point the finger at EA/Mythic is this,

KR gives you a Total (as Zym says) of every thing including LRC.

They really really really should bring that ability to the 2D client. It just keeps looking more and more like they are using that as a club to beat people into using KR. If that is the case then they are on the wrong path.

 

[Ni-]

The design you currently present is kind of big. I would hate to be looting a corpse and have that gump block a mob attacking me when I could have seen it before. That gump is also leaving out alot of item properties.

Suggestion...
- Maybe get rid of the 'Equiped' section.
- Leave the current Item view as it is now, no parenthesis numbers.
- Put a List of all Item Properties that would change from the removal of the 'Equiped' item and the addition of the Viewed item.

 

[Ni-]

The design you currently present is kind of big. I would hate to be looting a corpse and have that gump block a mob attacking me when I could have seen it before. That gump is also leaving out alot of item properties.

Suggestion...
- Maybe get rid of the 'Equiped' section.
- Leave the current Item view as it is now, no parenthesis numbers.
- Put a List of all Item Properties that would change from the removal of the 'Equiped' item and the addition of the Viewed item.

On a side note... Do we no longer have an 'Ideas Den' any longer? Or a Skill/Template section for that matter? I can't find either and would like to read/post there from time to time.

 

[Gildar]

Hmm...
*makes a note to try something*

 

[Basara]

On a side note... Do we no longer have an 'Ideas Den' any longer? Or a Skill/Template section for that matter? I can't find either and would like to read/post there from time to time.

This question, again?rolleyes:

The profession forums (aka skills/templates section) is actually in the process of being restored (though it's being streamlined into fewer categories to cover the same material). See the post by *zigzag* at the top of UHall. While we Mods are glad to see them return, we sorta dread the editing we'll have to do to get some of the FAQs back in shape.

As for Ideas Den, I'm not sure if that's on the immediate timetable for recovery.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

The design you currently present is kind of big. I would hate to be looting a corpse and have that gump block a mob attacking me when I could have seen it before. That gump is also leaving out alot of item properties.

Suggestion...
- Maybe get rid of the 'Equiped' section.
- Leave the current Item view as it is now, no parenthesis numbers.
- Put a List of all Item Properties that would change from the removal of the 'Equiped' item and the addition of the Viewed item.

I wasn't thinking of it as something people would run around with it active all the time, hence the suggestion of it being one of the item display modes. I don't know about the rest of you, but other than a quick scan to see what properties an item has on it, I bag it and let my crafter sort it out later. hehe

Also, with all the black space in most clients, it shouldn't be too bad.

But, to follow your thoughts, maybe a reduced mode for more easy viewing. My only concern is that with things like this, EA typically ends up causing lag (try KR, Melissa's corpse in list view after all the items fall to her corpse), and if it's running all the time, it might be a bad thing. THOUGH, it SHOULD be a client-side calculation, not a server-side one, so...

At any rate, long response short, good idea.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

As stated, KR has the total item mods in the character sheet (all of which can be put on hotbars for easy customization and info at a glance):

The item properties idea itself could in theory be done in the ItemProperties.LUA file, but would take a LOT of setup and a lot of comparison logic. I just wonder how much the UI files can handle before they start to lag the client because that would take a LOT of coding to put in every base stat for an item and then have it compare to the generated stats.

There was a thread with an idea for it before the crash on the KR forum, but I don't think anything became of the mod yet.

 

[Nexus]

...

As stated, KR has the total item mods in the character sheet (all of which can be put on hotbars for easy customization and info at a glance):

The item properties idea itself could in theory be done in the ItemProperties.LUA file, but would take a LOT of setup and a lot of comparison logic. I just wonder how much the UI files can handle before they start to lag the client because that would take a LOT of coding to put in every base stat for an item and then have it compare to the generated stats.

There was a thread with an idea for it before the crash on the KR forum, but I don't think anything became of the mod yet.

I don't think you'd need to have a record of base stats for items. Possibly it could be easier to do with a tool to compare equipped items by slot (which KR seems to do and add for it's totals) and then simple scan the text in the mouse over item properties Gump...Higher number comes out Green lower comes out red. No need to know the base as what you'll be looking at is really a matter of "Better" or "Worse" than your current.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

i browsed this thread in about 5 seconds but i noticed 2 things

#1 the OP needs to learn what Excel is all about

#2 people replied with some sort of bizarre KR workaround. stop pushing KR on 2D users. we don't like it.

 

[Kratos Aurion]

Theres a lot of things that need to be migrated from KR to 2D but to name a few...

1) optional "press enter" to start chatting system (good for spell spammers)
2) complete character mod chart
3) armor comparison chart (compared to the OPs example)
4) zoom in/out option (not sure if 2D is scalable like KR)

 

[drinkbeerallday]

4) zoom in/out option (not sure if 2D is scalable like KR)

the 2D window is shaped like a rectangle but the actual radius is shaped like a baseball diamond.

the KR window is also shaped like a rectangle, but it can be zoomed out to make the full baseball diamond viewable. this also has the effect of making part of the KR viewing area not part of the update range. which in KR you can see static terrain that is not being updated. to see this effect in the 2D client you'd need to reduce the update range (via macro) in 2D as you lower the update range the gray area is static. in KR there's no cue as to where it begins and ends. i look at this as a design flaw and one of the reasons 2D is a better client.

i think i explained it properly but a practical example would be using last target on something that is out of your view range to the top, bottom, left or right of your screen. it doesn't work to the corners though. go try it out!

now a great idea would be to expand the 2D viewable static range just like KR has. but from experience i've found the dev team usually is not very interested in good ideas.

 

[Salty Pete]

Remember when UO wasn't math? Why can't we have that game back?

I don't want to see the numbers, the how and why of each item. Just give them a fancy name (suit of invulnribility, sword of vanquishing, etc.) I don't like seeing code and math problems in the game world. I liked imersion and a consistant feel to gumps, art and world components.

I liked going up to NPCs and having to talk to them rather than click on them and select the correct option from a menu. I liked having to use an item id skill or item id wand/staff to find out what was my weapon or armour's type.

Leave the math behind the scenes where it belongs.

 

[Stucky]

umm pressing enter first before I speak is one of the reasons i don't play kr, please don't add it to 2d ever ever ever. I log into kr and its like i teleported back into uo3d yet none of my commands work anymore. Its seriously like went to bed here on Long Island, NY and woke up in a blurry Ethopia with amnesia somehow. I don't know where I am, I can't speak the language and I'm surely about to die. For the love of dancing brocolli ditch kr like you did 3d. Thank you

 

[Zym Dragon]

umm pressing enter first before I speak is one of the reasons i don't play kr, please don't add it to 2d ever ever ever. I log into kr and its like i teleported back into uo3d yet none of my commands work anymore. Its seriously like went to bed here on Long Island, NY and woke up in a blurry Ethopia with amnesia somehow. I don't know where I am, I can't speak the language and I'm surely about to die. For the love of dancing brocolli ditch kr like you did 3d. Thank you

You don't have to hit enter to talk in KR if it does not suit you. You can choose "Legacy Chat Mode" from the options menu.

 

[Erekose]

This is the new interface they are working on to simplify things

 

[Gildar]

Possibly it could be easier to do with a tool to compare equipped items by slot (which KR seems to do and add for it's totals) and then simple scan the text in the mouse over item properties Gump

That is essentially what I plan on looking into (again, actually - already looked into this a while ago, but didn't get too far with it). KR doesn't actually examine items by slot to get the totals - all of the totals you see are added up server-side.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

...

As stated, KR has the total item mods in the character sheet (all of which can be put on hotbars for easy customization and info at a glance):

Well, from a user-friendly standpoint, yeah, it clearly can be done, but wow... the words "extremely" and "inefficient" and "hideous" come to mind. hehe Still, it's nice that it can be done.

The item properties idea itself could in theory be done in the ItemProperties.LUA file, but would take a LOT of setup and a lot of comparison logic. I just wonder how much the UI files can handle before they start to lag the client because that would take a LOT of coding to put in every base stat for an item and then have it compare to the generated stats.

For me, that's why I limited it strictly to comparing the resists and luck from stats -- the only reason I highlighted the 8% reflect was because it was there, and it would be an easy way to point out (without calculation) that there was an ability there.

Still, it should be pretty straightforward logic to compare two items, and if there's a total somewhere stored (which there really must be somewhere, if only currently server-side) of the various properties that calculate, it wouldn't be too hard to compare. There really are a finite number of properties that add up, and simple math should not be dragging the game down significantly (though in some cases, I really think it does).

 

[RaDian FlGith]

That is essentially what I plan on looking into (again, actually - already looked into this a while ago, but didn't get too far with it). KR doesn't actually examine items by slot to get the totals - all of the totals you see are added up server-side.

I haven't really studied LUA, and especially not in relation to the KR client, but would does the client allow you to store variables in memory?

I guess what I'm asking is if it would be possible to create a class of some sort that allowed you to add up the stats for something everyone was wearing, and then use those totals in your comparisons? Obviously it would have to update when items were swapped, equipped, or unequipped, but it might help if it's possible...

 

[Gildar]

I haven't really studied LUA, and especially not in relation to the KR client, but would does the client allow you to store variables in memory?

I guess what I'm asking is if it would be possible to create a class of some sort that allowed you to add up the stats for something everyone was wearing, and then use those totals in your comparisons? Obviously it would have to update when items were swapped, equipped, or unequipped, but it might help if it's possible...

Combining and storing the data after it is obtained is the easy part.
Getting all the data in the first place is what is tricky.

Lots of things that appear to be known client-side aren't actually known - they're passed to the client as text data and ID numbers. The client doesn't need to know most of the data that players and the server need to know. It doesn't need to know that you have 25 SDI, or that LRC is capped at 100, or anything like that. It just needs to know "There's an item at location (x,y,z), it uses graphic N with hue M, and should display certain text if a user puts their mouse over it (which it doesn't even need unless the user puts their mouse over it)".