PVP Issues and Discussion Topic

[Restroom Cowboy]

Alright folks... Thread was cleaned up somewhat. Don't make personal attacks and accusations and please try and keep it civil and on topic. Thank you.

Although I agree with the concept Sheridan, I also think that when someone is involved with dirty deeds they should lose the right to actively voice thier opinions. As an avid player I see these *dirty deeds* on a near daily basis, and its important for those responsible to be held responsible. To me the joy of all outwieghs the joy or even the *rights* of the few. Too many people have left the game over issues with the VIP guild (I can say the name because it no longer exists...and Goose freely admits being the ringleader) and its doings.

So regardless of the rules (and no disrespect to you Sheridan) I will voice what I know. After all, if you had a dealer living next to you in real life wouldnt you like to know? I sure would, and as such the community deserves to know (as do the developers)

 

[o2bavr6]

Posts that stay on topic and do not violate the rules you agreed to follow when you signed up for an account here are always welcomed.

Seems to me the topic is PvP and some proposed changes to them.

When people discuss changes to the game there are many, many different ramifications to these proposed changes.

A discussion usualy involves point-counter-point. So when people say I would like this change, but they have to fix something else first, they are not going off topic.

PvP and exploits are a very passionate subject. And people wanting bugs and exploits fixed in PvP is also not off topic, when people are discussing how to make the game better!

 

[NB-Cats]

Although I agree with the concept Sheridan, I also think that when someone is involved with dirty deeds they should lose the right to actively voice thier opinions. As an avid player I see these *dirty deeds* on a near daily basis, and its important for those responsible to be held responsible. To me the joy of all outwieghs the joy or even the *rights* of the few. Too many people have left the game over issues with the VIP guild (I can say the name because it no longer exists...and Goose freely admits being the ringleader) and its doings.

So regardless of the rules (and no disrespect to you Sheridan) I will voice what I know. After all, if you had a dealer living next to you in real life wouldnt you like to know? I sure would, and as such the community deserves to know (as do the developers)

Ban players for destroying everyone at PvP.

What a fair system lol...

 

[NB-Cats]

regardless of the rules (and no disrespect to you Sheridan) I will voice what I know. After all, if you had a dealer living next to you in real life wouldnt you like to know? I sure would, and as such the community deserves to know (as do the developers)

Clearly someone who can't abide by the rules! He must be a cheater! BAN HIM!

You're pathetic dude.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

DCI does stack over 45. So if you have 70DCI and get hit with HLD, you end up at 45DCI with the -25HLD penalty

And I have a fencer parry tactics mage that is my archer/dexer killer, although he doesnt fair too well against necro mages.

Evil Omen should be tweaked a bit. First off, it casts way to fast and with the ability to poison a mage and then just evil omen spam them so they cant cast a cure is dumb. Yes they can use pots, but it's still dumb.

Resist Spells should come into play with Eveil Omen.

The developers have stated this does not stack. (Im sorry I dont have a link for you, but this was a question brought up many monthes ago)

In regards to parry being effecftive on a mage in pvp...not possible with todays templates with the 80 dex requirement for mages. IMO parry for mages should not be subject to the dex requirement in the same manner as dexxers.

 

[Sheridan]

Although I agree with the concept Sheridan, I also think that when someone is involved with dirty deeds they should lose the right to actively voice thier opinions. As an avid player I see these *dirty deeds* on a near daily basis, and its important for those responsible to be held responsible. To me the joy of all outwieghs the joy or even the *rights* of the few. Too many people have left the game over issues with the VIP guild (I can say the name because it no longer exists...and Goose freely admits being the ringleader) and its doings.

So regardless of the rules (and no disrespect to you Sheridan) I will voice what I know. After all, if you had a dealer living next to you in real life wouldnt you like to know? I sure would, and as such the community deserves to know (as do the developers)

I understand where you're coming from, but that simply is not the way it works here on these forums. You may have witnessed it, but how many of the others posters in that thread or on these forums have not? Someone could get an entire guild to say they witnessed someone cheating in some way, but it's still hearsay. The Stratics moderators cannot determine who is telling the truth when it comes to exploits or cheating - only in-game GMs, developers, programmers, etc can make that call, so we remove these posts to avoid potentially false accusations from being made maliciously.

If you have reason to believe this person is duping, exploiting or otherwise cheating, your best recourse is to report it to EA/Mythic via the proper channels.

If you feel the decision to remove some of the posts was made in error or that the policy is not a sound one, I'd recommend that you please contact the UO Forum Administrators and discuss it with them. I cannot change the rules, I'm only charged to uphold them. Thank you, and please let me know if you have any further questions.

Again, I ask that no more accusations or personal attacks be made, lest they be removed from the thread.

 

[o2bavr6]

Ban players for destroying everyone at PvP.

What a fair system lol...

I think you meant to say "Ban players for destroying PvP".

Fair is a funny word.

Is it a fair system when people use speedhacks?
Is it a fair system when people use scripts?
Is it a fair system when people use dupes?
Is it a fair system when people used the old Para field exploit?
Is it a fair system when people use scripts to drop walls of stone?
Is it a fair system when people use third party programs to insta cure?

I guess you are correct..."What a fair system"

 

[o2bavr6]

The developers have stated this does not stack. (Im sorry I dont have a link for you, but this was a question brought up many monthes ago)

In regards to parry being effecftive on a mage in pvp...not possible with todays templates with the 80 dex requirement for mages. IMO parry for mages should not be subject to the dex requirement in the same manner as dexxers.

Well I can assure you that it does, Try it!

There are many things that EA posts that are incorrect. This is one of them.

 

[Stinky_]

"Real" pvpers are the ones who play the game solely to pvp, not people who take this game too seriously. There aren't too many of these players left, as the pvp imbalances have driven them off due to "fake" pvpers complaining that they suck...

Anyway... back on topic...

Every template has an opposite template to trump it. Necro mage w/ mage weapon... Disarm, high damage dexxer. 4/6 chiv dexxer... even something as simple as a wrestle parry mage. Max damage archer... same thing as above.

It's really not complicated to counter ANY template in this game, people simply refuse to play certain templates, and would rather complain about every little thing... It's a game, get over it.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Well I can assure you that it does, Try it!

There are many things that EA posts that are incorrect. This is one of them.

I have tested it thoroughly. Tested various characters with 70 dci. I was hit more with 70 than I was with 45. Out of 500 swings I was hit 245 times 45 DCI vs. 50 HLD. Out of 500 swings at 70 dci...I was hit 270 times vs 50 hld. Upon each time repeating the test the numbers concluded 70 dci worked the same or was even a bit less effective.

Again, regardless of DCI...the item properties on weapons is fooked...even in the eyes of the developers. If they can see an issue (and we all know how long it takes them to see one!) then we have a problem.

Moving shot special costs needs adjustment...5 mana for 30 dmg+ per hit every 2 seconds is rediculous. Especially considering how often these shots hit vs. 45 DCI and 120 wep skill.

Necro forms...how about we leave them for necros? If you take off the jewels used to cast it you shouldnt be able to use the form, similar to a tamer who removes his jewels and the like and then tries to control his pet. True skill should be the determining factor here.

Mage weapons...regardless of magery skill, a real penalty should be made to ANY weapon that uses magery instead of true weapon skill. (I realize there is already a penalty but when this idea was concieved this penalty was not designed to be circumvented...hence it being a PENALTY) Perhaps make this type of weapon 25% less effective vs. real skill? (just a thought)


In regards to current issues, I can confirm what JC mentioned with attacking hidden people, twice today two archers have shot me whilst I was invised. (and guess whos guild they were a part of?) Regardless of the who, what, and where...it is an issue. Hopefully I can record the culprits in action next time so certain individuals wont be able to deny it is an issue.

 

[o2bavr6]

I have tested it thoroughly. Tested various characters with 70 dci. I was hit more with 70 than I was with 45. Out of 500 swings I was hit 245 times 45 DCI vs. 50 HLD. Out of 500 swings at 70 dci...I was hit 270 times vs 50 hld. Upon each time repeating the test the numbers concluded 70 dci worked the same or was even a bit less effective.

Intersting because my mage definately got hit more with only 45 DCI. I'll test it again, but I can say that all I do is PvP and all my guild does is PvP and everone who can or wants to has well over 55DCI.

I doubt we are all wrong, but as I said Ill test it again because my necro mage could use a bit more mana regen anyway

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

"Real" pvpers are the ones who play the game solely to pvp, not people who take this game too seriously. There aren't too many of these players left, as the pvp imbalances have driven them off due to "fake" pvpers complaining that they suck...

Anyway... back on topic...

Every template has an opposite template to trump it. Necro mage w/ mage weapon... Disarm, high damage dexxer. 4/6 chiv dexxer... even something as simple as a wrestle parry mage. Max damage archer... same thing as above.

It's really not complicated to counter ANY template in this game, people simply refuse to play certain templates, and would rather complain about every little thing... It's a game, get over it.

Countering a template is not the issue, the issue is imbalance. These are two very seperate ideas. The ability to adapt through exploit is not part of this game, its a part of the problem.

BTW...playing to PvP is fine and dandy, however lets make the playing field equal...not based on who has the best cheats and knows the loopholes.

Please dont patronize me with any comments further on this, I have seen several of your screenshots and they definitely arent too flattering. In order to actually care about an issue you must be aware of the problem. If you arent aware of the problem you are most likely doing something you shouldnt or else are engaged with others doing things they shouldnt. (pretty common stuff...read some psychology books sometime else research human behavioral studies...its all there...for your reading pleasure!)

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Intersting because my mage definately got hit more with only 45 DCI. I'll test it again, but I can say that all I do is PvP and all my guild does is PvP and everone who can or wants to has well over 55DCI.

I doubt we are all wrong, but as I said Ill test it again because my necro mage could use a bit more mana regen anyway

yessir...it could simply be a matter of numbers not rolling over properly in the formulas, making 70 dci less effective to lets say 65 for instance. I only tested things with the two suits...so the results could very well be off. Regarless of what the DCI is though, HLA/HLD supercede HCI/DCI much akin to a hot knife cutting through butter.

oh...and I am in complete agreement with you on the wonderful staff @ EA.They often will stand by pee poor statements rather than admit being mistaken.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Ban players for destroying everyone at PvP.

What a fair system lol...

We clearly differ in viewpoint of what is a fair system. Fair implies for the good of all, not the enjoyment of a few.

Speaking of bannings, I see a VIP member now at WBB selling hammers for 17.5 each. (remember VIP is not a guild and I am not mentioning names...I did take screenies for EA staff though if they wish to contact me on these) Upon asking him how he procured these I was told that he bought them in bulk....hmmmmm. I wasnt aware of anyone in game having these in bulk.

 

[Draxous]

Ban players for destroying everyone at PvP.

What a fair system lol...

I think you meant to say "Ban players for destroying PvP".

Fair is a funny word.

Is it a fair system when people use speedhacks?
Is it a fair system when people use scripts?
Is it a fair system when people use dupes?
Is it a fair system when people used the old Para field exploit?
Is it a fair system when people use scripts to drop walls of stone?
Is it a fair system when people use third party programs to insta cure?

I guess you are correct..."What a fair system"

Not to take this discussion on a tangent, but I'm really fed up with the way a lot of you people have run with the idea of cheating and its impact in UO.

For starters, I don't cheat and I never have. I'm actually more the type to wear crappy armor just because the average player that I fight... well, stinks at PvP. I need something to make things really challenging.

With that said you people crying and moaning and complaining and constantly pancakes about cheating... seriously, stop crying already. Its not that big of a deal, well it is... but NOT the kind of deal you all are making it seem like.

First, a big LOL to anyone who runs a script in order to help them PvP (ie, cures, ect. ect.) There is no script out there that can compete with a persons talent, intelligence, reaction timing or even ingenuity. People who PvP seriously, don't run scripts... it hinders more than helps. ROFL at even suggesting it!

Second, the general types of cheats the people employ give them no real advantages, I've seen them in screenshots and have talked to those who use them. Such as the trick thats used to make all the trees into stumps or the trick to change the animations of field spells. Honestly, again... does not change how you PvP as your still casting the same spells, chasing the same people, double clicking the same things... pushing the same buttons. With or with-out it... you are just as effective, claiming otherwise is just dumb.

Third, dupes... now all you people complaining about dupes. For starters, the only people who I see crying about dupes are those who are pissed off that others and not them, are profiting from it. I personally think that it was a good thing to the economy that you didn't need to spend freaking 50million gold just to get an ornament of the magician... ridiculous. The average player who found all these top-end items, finally available to them... is probably a bit happier about that than the endless crying that goes on here about how someone ruined your business to exploit the difficulty/rarity of these hard to get items for profit, now watch me shed a tear over your loss? I'd rather casual gamers finally be able to afford that decent suit so they can PvP with me on the weekends rather than being left behind because they don't grind grind grind. And to anyone who thinks their going to come back at this with some wit about ruining the economy... well, item insurance ruined the economy above any and all else. The only thing duping ever really did, was devalue those hording stocks to profit from them and enable many more players the opportunity to obtain items that are essential to competing with other players.

Finally, LOL at all of you :loser: who think cheating makes that big of a deal. The game is and HAS BEEN capped at how fast your player could run going all the way back to the days of UOExtreme. The people you see "speedhacking" are pushing their computers and clients to perform at the maximum... something that MOST of us do not do... and as link will post shortly (I hope?) you will definitely see proof that what you see on your screen is NOT what someone else is seeing on theirs. There's already a discussion underway, I'm pretty sure about this.

The real fix, would be getting the client/servers to sync better so that when I see you on screen... its actually you I'm seeing and not what was you 1/2 a second ago.


Chao!


PS. LOL!!!! To any PvPer who cheats. You know who you are and my e-peen just got a chubby thinking about how you need to cheat in order to compete with my talent and skills. Go ahead and cheat, looting your corpse is just that much sweeter!

I love it!!! Almost as much as...

You love my style!

 

[Krystal]

Leave the PvP discussions to people who are knowledgeable about the topic. You pvp on siege exclusively and your position is tainted by it. Not only that... you're not even a factor on Siege (you don't group pvp, period) so I don't even fathom how you can talk like your an expert.

Considering JC is talking about every other shard, but... siege, JC is pretty accurate even though I disagree with a few of his assertations.

sorry mas, but i agree with black rain.
your very passionate in what u believe in, i respect that but when most people disagree u gotta rethink ur stance.

 

[Llewen]

Finally, LOL at all of you :loser: who think cheating makes that big of a deal. The game is and HAS BEEN capped at how fast your player could run going all the way back to the days of UOExtreme. The people you see "speedhacking" are pushing their computers and clients to perform at the maximum... something that MOST of us do not do... and as link will post shortly (I hope?) you will definitely see proof that what you see on your screen is NOT what someone else is seeing on theirs. There's already a discussion underway, I'm pretty sure about this.

The real fix, would be getting the client/servers to sync better so that when I see you on screen... its actually you I'm seeing and not what was you 1/2 a second ago.


Chao!

You are dead wrong Rain. Cheating can and does make a huge difference. Half my computer's power can run UO at top speed, and I can run as fast as anyone, even those with much faster computers, and faster connections. I know this because I have run tests. I cannot run as fast as someone using a speed hack, even at low levels, and when they really crank them up, the difference is severe. Speed hacking is real, and it is a real problem. It gives cheaters a clear advantage in pvp.

Beyond that, I have had discussions with those who know what has been possible with certain cheats and hacks, and you would be amazed. Many exploits and cheats have been reported and fixed thankfully, but I know in the past, and the recent past at that, it has been possible to boost stats, double cast certain spells, break the cool down times on potions and spells, and the list goes on. These cheats have given the cheaters a real and clear advantage over those who don't cheat.

Then there are the famous spawn cams. Those are almost the worst of all, as they ensure that no one can run a spawn without getting raided. Those running the cams will know exactly when the spawns started, and exactly how far along they are, and exactly when the champ pops. Yes they could get most of this information just by sending scouts, but the fact is, most guilds aren't going to have someone available to watch spawns legitimately, 24/7. These cheats give the ones that use them a real advantage, a completely unfair advantage. It allows the guilds that use them to dominate the market in powerscrolls on their shard in a way they would never be able to if they didn't run the cams.

Then there are things like looting scripts, which completely ruined the strangers events for many people. Those scripts sort and loot the best items far faster than the most accomplished looters could. They give the same kind of advantage at an idoc, a real advantage, and a completely unfair advantage that is impossible to counteract without taking up cheating yourself.

As for the dupers "ruining the economy", perhaps the damage they do isn't as clear cut as the cheats mentioned above, but there is no disputing that they give those who use them a completely unfair advantage, and they make all the hard slogging that those that don't cheat, completely pointless. Maybe it is a good thing that valorite hammers are only 17 mil, but that is scant comfort to the person that has worked on bods for years, and never even come close to getting a valorite hammer legitimately.

The effects and damage of cheats don't simple exist in the imagination of those that attempt to fight against them. The effects and damage that cheats do is real, in game terms, and is completely unfair, and makes the game much less fun for those that attempt to play the game legitimately.

edit: Cheating also has another effect, and it might be the worst effect of them all. When cheating is as rampant as it is in UO, those that are very good at whatever they choose to do in the game, will not be recognized for their skill. Most people will assume they are cheating, because so many do. I very much doubt there is a skilled player in UO, a skilled clean player, who hasn't been falsely accused of cheating. You could say "big deal", that doesn't do any real damage, but the poisonous atmosphere created by rampant cheating does real damage to the gaming community, and again, makes the game overall, much less fun, and fun is what it is supposed to be all about.

 

[Draxous]

Finally, LOL at all of you :loser: who think cheating makes that big of a deal. The game is and HAS BEEN capped at how fast your player could run going all the way back to the days of UOExtreme. The people you see "speedhacking" are pushing their computers and clients to perform at the maximum... something that MOST of us do not do... and as link will post shortly (I hope?) you will definitely see proof that what you see on your screen is NOT what someone else is seeing on theirs. There's already a discussion underway, I'm pretty sure about this.

The real fix, would be getting the client/servers to sync better so that when I see you on screen... its actually you I'm seeing and not what was you 1/2 a second ago.


Chao!

You are dead wrong Rain. Cheating can and does make a huge difference. Half my computer's power can run UO at top speed, and I can run as fast as anyone, even those with much faster computers, and faster connections. I know this because I have run tests. I cannot run as fast as someone using a speed hack, even at low levels, and when they really crank them up, the difference is severe. Speed hacking is real, and it is a real problem. It gives cheaters a clear advantage in pvp.

This is where we agree to disagree.

I have said my piece and after PvPing in this game for over 10 years, I know what it takes.

I'm sorry, but the vast majority of Ultima Online players are not that great at playing this game. A lot of times it is easier to blame another person cheating or whatever else you'd like to for the frustration you feel in PvP.


You know what? I played and pvped in UO from 1997 to 2004 exclusively on dial up. I was at huge disadvantages to other players and even with, I was competing at the top level.


I come from an era in Ultima Online when running away or recalling out was considered a defeat. Do you know what that means?

Now you're sitting here telling me, because a random guy can run away faster than you or stop you from running away with panties at your ankles... I'm supposed to take you serious?

You and everyone else reading this thread might have just received a pretty strong dose of reality. There is a pecking order here... now think of where you probably fit into it. Now think of where you probably fit into it with no Trammel.

Got the picture? Its not the computer, dude... its definitely not. I do fine in PvP and I have a pretty crappy comp and I don't cheat.

Lets cut the bull right here... ok?

 

[Revenant2]

Well, finally, a little content worth discussing that actually matches the thread topic.

I submitted a bug report on the 'pet bug' some time back and it's worse than people may realize, a blue can guardwhack an innocent red with it due to the interaction of a second issue that was introduced when the pet AI changes went in (it affects players though Im not sure it was intended to, players are basically MOBs too). People get flagged out of their houses constantly due to this, and the tamers involved don't always realize what happened. There are a whole lot of accusations flying around between people right now of deliberately using 'the pet bug', some justified and some not.

Removing the ability to run spawn cams would not actually stop spawn raiding (and stopping it shouldn't be a goal, this is Fel is it not?). The point to doing that would be making those guilds get out there and scout instead of use an automated tool.

Health bars can be awfully buggy. You end up with everybody's health bar holding the wrong names. They also sometimes latch onto each other in forms where they cover each other up. When you're in a party and a new person joins the party, the party bars you've already pulled jump around and mess up.

There is a problem where players attack hidden players and to my knowledge IT DOES NOT HAPPEN DELIBERATELY. It's an unintended auto-attack that I made a bug report on, I believe it's the thing that was introduced with the pet AI changes. It's also what causes someone to auto-attack and rezkill someone who they were just fighting, even after they 'tabbed out'.

All that moving shot and hit chance stuff is out the window, and vamp form doesn't even belong in this discussion. Those opinions inserted into the original post degraded it badly.

A real pvp 'imbalance' would be -

- - dexers should have a blessed/insurable 'bandie pack' for their bandages. The fact that tamers would also use them would not imbalance anything that I can see, tamers can PVP on a much lower stash of bandies anyway. PVP dexers are the one class to my knowledge which, due to the skills on the template, are grossly degraded as a fresh-rez. Mage heal spells are powerable by LRC armor and arcane clothing, poisoning does not require the weapon to be re-poisoned upon ressurection, ninjas get to keep their ninja stars, but if you have 200+ skill points invested in Healing, you rez and are sh*t-outta-luck except for a 10 bandie tally (which is about enough to rez and heal up a pet, not enough to PVP on).

It doesn't matter if the current dev team likes or dislikes LRC, this whole thing of empowering skills such that they are not tied directly to uninsurable items (think: LRC, quivers, ninja belts, arcane, tithing) left out the 200+ points that go into healing. It's an imbalance between Healing-running templates and everything else that should be rectified.

There are others. Those guys are busy as heck tho. I'ma go back to what I was doing, now.

 

[Draxous]

A real pvp 'imbalance' would be -

- - dexers should have a blessed/insurable 'bandie pack' for their bandages. The fact that tamers would also use them would not imbalance anything that I can see, tamers can PVP on a much lower stash of bandies anyway. PVP dexers are the one class to my knowledge which, due to the skills on the template, are grossly degraded as a fresh-rez. Mage heal spells are powerable by LRC armor and arcane clothing, poisoning does not require the weapon to be re-poisoned upon ressurection, ninjas get to keep their ninja stars, but if you have 200+ skill points invested in Healing, you rez and are sh*t-outta-luck except for a 10 bandie tally (which is about enough to rez and heal up a pet, not enough to PVP on).

I don't agree. No class of character should be able to PvP effectively after a rez... period. You lost, we don't play test center... after all.

God I hate Item Insurance...

 

[Llewen]

Lets cut the bull right here... ok?

You might want to watch your tone... I don't particularly care whether you can or cannot beat me to a pulp in pvp. I don't care what playstyle you choose, and whether or not I spend any time at all in Trammel has nothing to do with this conversation. I've payed my dues pvp'ing. I have my own style, and I don't particularly care whether you like it or not either. I know what I'm talking about, and I know that what I have said is true, and I certainly don't have to prove myself to you or anyone else for that matter.

Whether they affect you in particular or not is completely irrelevant. Whether you can beat someone who is cheating or not is completely irrelevant. Whether you can beat Deep Blue II on a T3, playing on dialup on a Commodore PET, is also, completely irrelevant. The simple truth is that cheating is a real issue in UO, and it does give those who cheat a real advantage, whether you recognize it or not, and I am absolutely certain it has also affected the bottom line for UO, which in the end affects everyone who plays the game, including you.

The less money UO makes, the less content we will see and the longer it will take to fix bugs, or address balance issues, or get any development done on the game whatsoever, and I am dead certain many have quit in frustration over the cheating issue, in all its many forms. Again, whether you recognize it or not.

 

[Revenant2]

A real pvp 'imbalance' would be -

- - dexers should have a blessed/insurable 'bandie pack' for their bandages. The fact that tamers would also use them would not imbalance anything that I can see, tamers can PVP on a much lower stash of bandies anyway. PVP dexers are the one class to my knowledge which, due to the skills on the template, are grossly degraded as a fresh-rez. Mage heal spells are powerable by LRC armor and arcane clothing, poisoning does not require the weapon to be re-poisoned upon ressurection, ninjas get to keep their ninja stars, but if you have 200+ skill points invested in Healing, you rez and are sh*t-outta-luck except for a 10 bandie tally (which is about enough to rez and heal up a pet, not enough to PVP on).

I don't agree. No class of character should be able to PvP effectively after a rez... period. You lost, we don't play test center... after all.

God I hate Item Insurance...

You missed the point. Every other class DOES PVP effectively after a rez, including tamers whose pets die (bandage tally is fine for them). It was the dexers who use healing who missed out on this.

 

[Draxous]

The simple truth is that cheating is a real issue in UO, and it does give those who cheat a real advantage, whether you recognize it or not

The simple truth is that your fixating on bologna.

I've already highlighted what is the issue. Link mentioned it and there is a thread about it (which you're the freaking OP of!)

Go ahead and keep yourself convinced that cheaters is really whats holding you back, ruining your fun. You're entire post is screaming BS. If you cant get enjoyment out of the game as-is... its not the game, not the computer, not the cheaters, not the other person.

Its you.

I apologize if my tone offends because its not what I'm intending. The Trammel comment is an interesting one isn't it? It changes the dynamics of competition between players... in Trammel you still have competition, people who have the l33t and rare items... finished chars/suits, prime/large housing and those that do not.

There will always be haves and have-nots, in every world. Realizing and accepting exactly where you are on the totem poll is generally tough to swallow... especially in a videogame when people play to feel like winners, not losers. The irony is-is that we're not all winners and never will be.

It's all smoke and mirrors and the majority of the playerbase loves it.

 

[Draxous]

You missed the point. Every other class DOES PVP effectively after a rez, including tamers whose pets die (bandage tally is fine for them). It was the dexers who use healing who missed out on this.

Chivalry and Spellweaving cost no regs?

And magery has to dedicate 100% LRC to a suit... sacrificing MANY item properties otherwise used by a chiv dexer who has no regs.

Theres ups and downs to both worlds... simply said... I just don't agree with you.

 

[Erekose]

Chivalry and Spellweaving cost no regs?

And magery has to dedicate 100% LRC to a suit... sacrificing MANY item properties otherwise used by a chiv dexer who has no regs.

Theres ups and downs to both worlds... simply said... I just don't agree with you.

That is a pleasant thing to read. Too many people here seem to think that they are right and everyone else is wrong. At least some such as yourself can simply agree to disagree after stating their stance. That's a lot more honest and refreshing than the 'I'm right you're wrong, you have no clue' stance.

 

[JC the Builder]

Get parrying, and why don't you go ahead and write out this formula for us Mr. Math Guru, because your information is incorrect. 72% chance to hit someone with 0 dci perhaps, but 45vs45 cancel each other out. Don't want to be affected by lower defense? Get lower attack, or stack 65 dci.

Unless you have 80 Dexterity, Parrying chance is reduced. This makes getting Parrying on a mage prohibitive unless you are going to have low mana.

Also I said that it is 50/50 when everything is even. When you face someone with 45% HCI and you have 0% DCI, they will have a 72% chance to hit you. My point is that the bonuses from these properties are still much too great. Instead of 15% it should have been like 5% for normal items.

Does anyone also consider how difficult it is to get lots of DCI? You need at least 3 pieces of equipment. This usually means a ring, shield and an artifact like Aegis of Grace or Fey Leggings. And that only brings you to 45%. To get to 70% you need another two pieces. That is five pieces of equipment for enough defense chance increase just so a dexer will always have a 50% chance to hit you. How lucky!

(and vamp form is NOT a PVP issue so you may as well drop it? Vamp in PVP is almost nonexistant and where it does exist it's nowhere close to overpowered).

I have seen several people using Vampiric Form in this fashion over the years. They rely on it so much that if someone uses Ward Removal on them they run away until they can put it back on. It is certainly an issue in PVP, but not a big one at the moment.

It's not used on true Necromancers, it's used on sampires.

Thanks for making my point. Characters without Necromancy shouldn't be able to use Vampiric Form.

A bunch of useless replies that have nothing to do with this topic

You just don't want these discussions to take place at all. Your guild uses a lot of these the subjects mentioned and abuses them to their fullest. If this stuff gets changed then you will have to actually learn how to PVP.

Why don't you grow up.

 

[Llewen]

I've already highlighted what is the issue. Link mentioned it and there is a thread about it (which you're the freaking OP of!)

The real fix, would be getting the client/servers to sync better so that when I see you on screen... its actually you I'm seeing and not what was you 1/2 a second ago.

We agree on this, this is at least part of the solution.

Go ahead and keep yourself convinced that cheaters is really whats holding you back, ruining your fun.

Cheating doesn't "ruin my fun". I'll admit that, I have plenty of fun, regardless of what others do, I wouldn't continue playing the game if I didn't. I can also fully accept that there will be others that will be better at the game than I am, in every way. I don't have a problem with that.

But I know that cheating has ruined the fun for many, and your saying that it is their fault is absolutely a classic example of blaming the victim. It isn't their fault that there are scumbags out there using exploits and cheats to gain an advantage, it is the scumbags' fault, and no one else's.

Whether you will admit it or not, there is such a thing as right and wrong, good and evil, even in something as meaningless as a game. No, it isn't in the same degree as so many of the terrible evils we see in the world around us, but it is evil, nonetheless. For all the reasons I have listed, and many more, cheating is simply evil. Petty? Yes. Pathetic? Absolutely. Evil? Without a doubt.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

"Thanks for making my point. Characters without Necromancy shouldn't be able to use Vampiric Form."

That doesn't make your point because you side tracked your point by talking about 'true' necromancers, which it doesn't apply to.

Characters do have necromancy to use.

You have in your guild members with bonded bake kitsunes on their necros, yet you make no mention of that despite them having to stone taming on and off in order to bond them.

 

[JC the Builder]

That doesn't make your point because you side tracked your point by talking about 'true' necromancers, which it doesn't apply to.

The spell requirement is 99 skill. If you only have 35 you shouldn't be able to benefit from it.

You have in your guild members with bonded bake kitsunes on their necros, yet you make no mention of that despite them having to stone taming on and off in order to bond them.

Well if they make it so you can't have bonded creatures without the right skill level lots of people are going to lose their Greater Dragons. I don't have any ideas on this.

 

[JC the Builder]

Funny someone should say that Vampiric Form isn't a PVP issue when we just fought an archer tonight who was using it and obviously not a Necromancer.

 

[Draxous]

But I know that cheating has ruined the fun for many, and your saying that it is their fault is absolutely a classic example of blaming the victim. It isn't their fault that there are scumbags out there using exploits and cheats to gain an advantage, it is the scumbags' fault, and no one else's.

Victim...?

I'm not buying the way you attempt to spin the issue at hand. The people that allowed something so trivial to ruin their fun... weren't having much fun anyways, obviously. I know this because, like you and I... they'd still be here if I was wrong.

Let's get something straight tho... I'm not condoning cheating or advocating for it or those who use it in anyway. I don't do it and I don't respect people who do.

What I'm saying is that generally the accusations, temper tantrums, and crying about how much cheating has negatively impacted their game-play is really getting WAY out of hand. It doesn't affect peoples game-play anywhere near what people think it does... and this endless cry-fest about how its ruining this game has got to stop.


People need to buck up and take responsibility for themselves. Constantly blaming others for their own personal woes is ludicrous.


Focus on the REAL issues of this game such as crappy monster loot... item insurance ruining the economy... imbalances in PvP from apple timers to archery dismount to whither spammers and so on. Worry about new content being added, spicing up the current content and fixing the bugs.

Good Night.

 

[Surgeries]

No, I mean for meleers to actually BE the tanks they should be and not castoffs from a jousting tournament that would be relegated back to mediocre PvM. You and everyone else seems to think that Vamp form automatically means you're soloing everything in the game, and that couldn't be farther from the truth. Only a select few are actually able to solo the bosses, and that comes with lots of practice and lots of real player skill on playing the character.

Not to mention that once again, the fact that other classes are doing exactly the same thing, but even moreso, yet no one is calling for nerfs to them.

I'm pretty good at High End PvM, without a Gimp Necro Vampire.

True...I can't solo Para Balrons, and never move...but then...do you REALLY suppose that was intended, on a character with 100 HP? It may be NICE to be able to do it, but I really don't believe it was INTENDED.

I don't. No matter what.

Now...I can solo a Para Dragon, and NEVER move, without even having Bushido on my swordsman...I don't think that's too bad...and I don't even have Necro! And it doesn't take me 20-25 minutes, like you say it would, without a Sampire. I can drop em pretty dang quick, actually. And you, of all people, would know that.

Yeah...I can't solo, or even duo a Peerless that way, but given talents and abilities, I think it's pretty good.

Unless, of course...YOU consider Paragon Dragons, and the like, "Mediocre" PvM?

And if you do...what do YOU consider "High End PvM"?

Please let me know...

 

[Crystilastamous]

Unless you have 80 Dexterity, Parrying chance is reduced. This makes getting Parrying on a mage prohibitive unless you are going to have low mana.

Also I said that it is 50/50 when everything is even. When you face someone with 45% HCI and you have 0% DCI, they will have a 72% chance to hit you. My point is that the bonuses from these properties are still much too great. Instead of 15% it should have been like 5% for normal items.

Does anyone also consider how difficult it is to get lots of DCI? You need at least 3 pieces of equipment. This usually means a ring, shield and an artifact like Aegis of Grace or Fey Leggings. And that only brings you to 45%. To get to 70% you need another two pieces. That is five pieces of equipment for enough defense chance increase just so a dexer will always have a 50% chance to hit you. How lucky!

That's my point JC, are you dense? High dci CAN BE ACHIEVED!!!! stackable with LOWER ATTACKK!!!! Get it?

YOu can stack the opposites of hit chance and lower defense chance.


Or you can go the alternative route, of a suit with DIFFERENT MODS and be EASIER to hit.

Consider how hard it is to get dci? NO HARDER THAN TO GET HCI!
By the same sentiment I could argue "Well, it's hard for me to get HCI AND LOWER DEFENSE STACK IN THE SAME SUIT"

Your arguments aren't founded at all, you continually post things that DON"T work to your advantage, and neglect things that you USE TO YOUR ADVANTAGE...

Such as necros in your guild controlling bake kitsunes with 0 taming skill, and bonding by stoning on taming and stoning off taming.

Should you be able to control powerful pets without taming skill? Honestly I don't care that you do. If however, it was used against you, you would cry hax and nerf.

There are opposites to each set of item properties..... SO WHAT MAY I ASK IS THE POINT OF NERFING EITHER!? IT ISN"T BROKEN!!!!!

Once you've got some good ideas, make a new thread.

 

[Connor_Graham]

True...I can't solo Para Balrons, and never move...but then...do you REALLY suppose that was intended, on a character with 100 HP? It may be NICE to be able to do it, but I really don't believe it was INTENDED.

Funny. I've done it with my archer, and you were there to see it the first time I did it. Tamers can solo them even faster. Bard/Mages can do it too. i know, because I've seen them do it.

I don't think any of them have more HP's than anyone else.

Unless, of course...YOU consider Paragon Dragons, and the like, "Mediocre" PvM?

Considering all of the changes that have occurred to the game since then, Para Dragons are mid level PvM, albeit the high end of it.

And if you do...what do YOU consider "High End PvM"?

Please let me know...

Using your own example, Para Balrons. Para Cu Sidhe's. Ancient Wyrms & their Para version. Abscess. Rend, etc...

You completely miss the point that meleers want to be able to TANK and expect to survive more than 2 hits. It would sure be nice to NOT have to have a Tamer in a group to go and do a Peerless. It would sure be nice to be able to take my meleer in and tank the boss while everyone else stayed back at their safe distance and cast/shoot away at it in relative safety while I held it at bay WITHOUT having to have a Tamer's meat shield doing what by all rights a meleer should be able to.

But you keep missing that point. In this post, and in the other one.

 

[o2bavr6]

What I'm saying is that generally the accusations, temper tantrums, and crying about how much cheating has negatively impacted their game-play is really getting WAY out of hand. It doesn't affect peoples game-play anywhere near what people think it does... and this endless cry-fest about how its ruining this game has got to stop.


People need to buck up and take responsibility for themselves. Constantly blaming others for their own personal woes is ludicrous.


Focus on the REAL issues of this game such as crappy monster loot... item insurance ruining the economy... imbalances in PvP from apple timers to archery dismount to whither spammers and so on. Worry about new content being added, spicing up the current content and fixing the bugs.

Seems to me your post is just as much if a temper tantrum as every other post here.

So are you saying that someone cant take responsibility for themselves and want game balance and bug fixes? What perfect planet do you live on?

You say that people don't use scripts or third party programs in PvP that much. Obviously you have maxed out PvP characters on every shard and you play them all regularly enough to know all the opposing PvPers on each shard.

I do agree 100% on the "in the old days running away meant you lost", but this isn't the old days anymore.

Todays game is all about what people can do to make their character have a decided advantage over another. In some cases people use "game mechanic exploits" for this advantage and in other cases people use third party programs.

Wanting a balanced game is not whining. It's no different than watching the Olympics. Who wants to see 5 honest weight lifters and 1 dishonest one? Is it a fun or entertaining to see the dishonest one win?

Focus on the REAL issues of this game such as crappy monster loot... item insurance ruining the economy... imbalances in PvP from apple timers to archery dismount to whither spammers and so on. Worry about new content being added, spicing up the current content and fixing the bugs.

I don't understand: You say stop whining about PvP and adapt yet here you say the same things that others are "whining" about.

I've been playing since Sept 1997 non-stop and if you have played that long, there is no way that you don't get annoyed at certain unexpected game changes or imbalances that occurr.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Funny someone should say that Vampiric Form isn't a PVP issue when we just fought an archer tonight who was using it and obviously not a Necromancer.

One person, two if I count the one I saw recently on Europa using it, is not a PvP issue. Hardly anyone usues vamp form in PvP, the damage is capped so the leech will always be lower plus a ward removal talisman would counter it mid battle.

More than likely you fought someones champ killer.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

The spell requirement is 99 skill. If you only have 35 you shouldn't be able to benefit from it.

If you have 90 you shouldn't lose the option to use something slightly above your skill level. If they make it like that then they better make it like that for every other skill/talisman and item that replaces skill in the game too.

Well if they make it so you can't have bonded creatures without the right skill level lots of people are going to lose their Greater Dragons. I don't have any ideas on this.

Well if they make it so you need the real skill level for Vampiric Embrace items with plus Necromancy are going to lose their purpose & there will be a lot less people playing it.

 

[Llewen]

What I'm saying is that generally the accusations, temper tantrums, and crying about how much cheating has negatively impacted their game-play is really getting WAY out of hand. It doesn't affect peoples game-play anywhere near what people think it does... and this endless cry-fest about how its ruining this game has got to stop.


People need to buck up and take responsibility for themselves. Constantly blaming others for their own personal woes is ludicrous.

I don't entirely disagree with you, but don't you see, even the excessive anger, and the false accusations, are a byproduct of the cheating itself? It is what I meant when I said that cheating creates a "poisonous atmosphere". When so many are cheating when you aren't, it is easy to become frustrated, and angry, and to start thinking that anyone who manages to do better than you do, in any way, is cheating, when this will obviously not be the case. The poisonous atmosphere created by the degree of cheating that is going on in UO is one of the primary causes of a lot of unwarranted anger, and unjust accusations.

Having said that, the stunted academic half of my brain has to laugh, and wonder if you have either taken psychology courses recently, or are in the field in some way, particularly as a counsellor of some sort. There has been a massive paradigm shift in psychology in the last few years, and maybe especially in pop psychology, from the old paradigm of trying to figure out what your parents, or someone else did to you to create your problems, to taking ownership of your problems and proactively finding solutions, and you have expressed this sentiment perfectly. Dr. Phil would be proud I expect. Another swing of the pendulum. A few years from now this new revelation will have found it's proper place and the pendulum will have swung in the direction of something new.

(None of the last paragraph was meant as a slam or insult of any kind, it was merely an observation on something that made me chuckle. )

 

[Erekose]

What I find amusing is that 'nobody cheats'. Everyone who PvP's claims they never use healing scripts, stump hacks, speedhacks, etc. I'm not pointing to anyone in this thread necessarily; I'm just saying in general. We *all* know that a fairly large plurality if not majority of PvP'ers use one or more mechanisms to cheat, yet they all claim they do not. It's just their mad skillz that let them run on foot faster than a mounted player

 

[o2bavr6]

What I find amusing is that 'nobody cheats'. Everyone who PvP's claims they never use healing scripts, stump hacks, speedhacks, etc. I'm not pointing to anyone in this thread necessarily; I'm just saying in general. We *all* know that a fairly large plurality if not majority of PvP'ers use one or more mechanisms to cheat, yet they all claim they do not. It's just their mad skillz that let them run on foot faster than a mounted player

I know there is no way to prove it, but all I use is UO and UOAssist in PvP and I am in the most successful PvP guild on my shard.

I can say that a little more than half of my guild only use UO and UOAssist. The other 49% on the other hand

 

[Erekose]

I know there is no way to prove it, but all I use is UO and UOAssist in PvP and I am in the most successful PvP guild on my shard.

I can say that a little more than half of my guild only use UO and UOAssist. The other 49% on the other hand

Heehee. Like I said I really wasn't accusing anyone in particular here; I was speaking in general. The vast majority of players don't even have Stratics accounts

 

[NB-Cats]

Chivalry and Spellweaving cost no regs?

And magery has to dedicate 100% LRC to a suit... sacrificing MANY item properties otherwise used by a chiv dexer who has no regs.

Theres ups and downs to both worlds... simply said... I just don't agree with you.

Black Rain says it best but Llewen has a point.

There are many cheats out there. All of them have minor impacts in PvP but still they create a bad atmosphere to play in.

 

[NB-Cats]

You just don't want these discussions to take place at all. Your guild uses a lot of these the subjects mentioned and abuses them to their fullest. If this stuff gets changed then you will have to actually learn how to PVP.

Why don't you grow up.

You really have no clue what went on here... there was a huge deviation from your initial PvP thread. The majority of those posts have been deleted since.

My reply was meant to get things BACK on the PvP subject at hand and not on how many val hammers are in Luna.

Apologize now!

 

[NB-Cats]

You have in your guild members with bonded bake kitsunes on their necros, yet you make no mention of that despite them having to stone taming on and off in order to bond them.

+1

Attacking hidden characters is also not intended. There might be something wrong though but it never happened to me.

 

[Mortharr/Revenge]

JC, you amuse me greatly.

 

[JC the Builder]

Another 4 useless and non-topical replies from the same guild.

Attacking hidden characters is also not intended. There might be something wrong though but it never happened to me.

So not only will you try and derail discussion but you want to make fun of how this bug is not yet widely known, thus certain people are able to exploit it to their amusement. Such as the person I fought in Vampiric Form, he has been seen using it. Isn't that a coincidence? A vampiric form, attacking hidden, ~40 damage moving shot archer. Three things that should be addressed.

 

[Draxous]

It is what I meant when I said that cheating creates a "poisonous atmosphere". When so many are cheating when you aren't, it is easy to become frustrated, and angry, and to start thinking that anyone who manages to do better than you do, in any way, is cheating, when this will obviously not be the case. The poisonous atmosphere created by the degree of cheating that is going on in UO is one of the primary causes of a lot of unwarranted anger, and unjust accusations.

I can agree with that, but if its made well-known that cheating really does not give you the kinds of advantages people more oft-claim... its not a big issue.


I think there are really more important issues that people need to start coming together on... issues that really matter to our game-play. Monster loot, crafting, economy, PvP balances and more in-game content... just to name a few.

 

[NB-Cats]

Another 4 useless and non-topical replies from the same guild.

So not only will you try and derail discussion but you want to make fun of how this bug is not yet widely known, thus certain people are able to exploit it to their amusement. Such as the person I fought in Vampiric Form, he has been seen using it. Isn't that a coincidence? A vampiric form, attacking hidden, ~40 damage moving shot archer. Three things that should be addressed.

All my posts were replies to comments specifically adressed to me. One of which you posted.

Learn to read.

 

[o2bavr6]

I think there are really more important issues that people need to start coming together on... issues that really matter to our game-play. Monster loot, crafting, economy, PvP balances and more in-game content... just to name a few.

I don't get it, when we are all talking about PvP balance you say we are whining, yet in your own quote you say "I think there are really more important issues that people need to start coming together on..PvP balances .."

Is there a different type of PvP that I don't know about, or is it just that when we bring it up we are whining and when you bring it up it's an "important issue"?

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

All my posts were replies to comments specifically adressed to me. One of which you posted.

Learn to read.

Pardon me but this thread is not about you. Any posts made in the direction or your guilds has nothing to do with you personally, but everything to do with the actions of your guild IN GAME. We the members of the community have the right to post aboutn these issues, and if you are part of the problem you definitely are not part of the solution.

Dont like it? Post elsewhere. Honestly these boards are supposed to be about community.