53 Valorite Hammers for sale on Atlantic

[LeeHarvey]

Heh, I was going to respond to his post, but I didn't think he would be able to relate.

You're exactly right, I cant relate to that mentality. Nor would I ever want to. Cheating, stealing and exploiting aren't acceptable to me. If you are in that dire of straits, because you don't have the skills to acquire things in any other way, theres nothing anyone but you can do to change that. But that's just another reason people keep leaving this game. What kind of person with any self respect wants to associate with that kind of playerbase. Your laziness and ineptitude ruin the game for people who dont have a need to enter "cheat codes" to have a good time. But I dont expect you to understand that, why should you when things can just be so much easier your way. It's only cuz stupid EA made this game so freaking hard anyway right? We deserve to have everything in game handed to us in the easiest way possible, no matter what the outcome or how it effects anyone else.

 

[o2bavr6]

You're exactly right, I cant relate to that mentality. Nor would I ever want to. Cheating, stealing and exploiting aren't acceptable to me. If you are in that dire of straits, because you don't have the skills to acquire things in any other way, theres nothing anyone but you can do to change that. But that's just another reason people keep leaving this game. What kind of person with any self respect wants to associate with that kind of playerbase. Your laziness and ineptitude ruin the game for people who dont have a need to enter "cheat codes" to have a good time. But I dont expect you to understand that, why should you when things can just be so much easier your way. It's only cuz stupid EA made this game so freaking hard anyway right? We deserve to have everything in game handed to us in the easiest way possible, no matter what the outcome or how it effects anyone else.

My comment is in context to the people who are going to cheat. In life there are many different types of people, some with honor and some without.

In the cases where people are going to "cheat" not matter what, it is those cases that I was refering to with the MS Windows comment.

If you knew 100% that someone isn't going to spend the money on your product or anyone elses no matter what, you would rather have them pirate your stuff than your competitor. In the end you are familiarizing yourself with their product and again they prefer you to know about windows than Macs OS.

I've been playing this game non-stop since probably before you even heard of UO, Sept. 1997.

I have been through every bug exploit and gamechange that has occured since UO went live, have you?

If I choose to spend my time PvPing and not crafting that's my choice.

If EA makes this game so hard to get items thats their choice, but not my fault.

If I could spend 50 mill on a regular hammer or 15 Mill on a duped hammer, I'm going to buy the duped hammer, simple as that. Anyone who wouldnt is lying or stupid.

You see your integrity and heart are in the right place, but until EA can fix these issues, your spinning your wheels.

I just don't know what the answer is; but maybe to truly fix the economy they would more than likely need to a) fix all duping b) delete all gold on every account that exceeds 1 million.

This would hurt me a lot since I have a few hundred million gold and I'm sure it would upset a big portion of rich or vet players.

In the end you cant make everyone happy... the grass is always greener bla bla bla..

I jsut think that the resoures used to fix the bug could be used elsewhere to correct issues that in "my mind" are more important, like PvP balance.

At the end of the day buying an item for less due to it being duped is less of a show stopper than balancing PvP or fixing factions or fixing Siege or fixing the flagging bug (or revamp PvP flagging system).

These are all things that affect significantly more players than the duping of itmes.

 

[Beefybone]

Item duping is the only reason the inflation caused by gold duping hasn't made everything too expensive to afford. The legitimate UO economy is just an adjunct to the real UO economy of scripters and dupers.

 

[o2bavr6]

Item duping is the only reason the inflation caused by gold duping hasn't made everything too expensive to afford. The legitimate UO economy is just an adjunct to the real UO economy of scripters and dupers.

Exactly, if there was no gold, duping wouldn't be as bad because no one could afford to buy the item if it was expensive.

If you can only sell the duped item for cheap then its not worth duping on a large scale to begin with.

Economies rise and fall by the value of their currency not the value of goods or items. This is why in some countries an item may cost you 150,000 of their currency but it only adds up to $4.00 US. Printing more money makes its real value less.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Exactly, if there was no gold, duping wouldn't be as bad because no one could afford to buy the item if it was expensive.

If you can only sell the duped item for cheap then its not worth duping on a large scale to begin with.

Economies rise and fall by the value of their currency not the value of goods or items. This is why in some countries an item may cost you 150,000 of their currency but it only adds up to $4.00 US. Printing more money makes its real value less.

Well
I am actually trying to buy runic hammers because they are so cheap. Im not going to lie.

Actually you are wrong about the inflation
We have both been around long enough to remember gold once sold for $20 a million. Before duping.

Duping would occur in equal amounts as today, back then.

Why, because you have to do this...

Dupe Valorite hammers and lets say they are worth 50 million (in todays UO game). Well the dupes go for let say (for point) 25 million.

TODAY
25 million today and $1 per million would cost you $25. Thats what the dupers want RL cash. Sell the hammer in game. Sell the gold outside of game.

Yester year
Gold WAS about $20 per million. (REMEMBER NO DUPING) That hammer would sell for 1.5 million in game 6,7 years ago. Or be put on EBAY auction. At 1.5 million that about $25 to $30 for the duper. It would get the price tag of 25 million. It wouldnt be worth $500 bucks. Its all relative to the value of 1 million gold.

Inflation fools us because we think 100 million means something in game, like 100 million in life.

Its not. Once you attach the selling value. Its all really the same.

 

[o2bavr6]

Dupe Valorite hammers and lets say they are worth 50 million (in todays UO game). Well the dupes go for let say (for point) 25 million.

TODAY
25 million today and $1 per million would cost you $25. Thats what the dupers want RL cash. Sell the hammer in game. Sell the gold outside of game.

Yester year
Gold WAS about $20 per million. (REMEMBER NO DUPING) That hammer would sell for 1.5 million in game 6,7 years ago. Or be put on EBAY auction. At 1.5 million that about $25 to $30 for the duper. It would get the price tag of 25 million. It wouldnt be worth $500 bucks. Its all relative to the value of 1 million gold.

Inflation fools us because we think 100 million means something in game, like 100 million in life.

Its not. Once you attach the selling value. Its all really the same.

True, that is what i was infering too in an earlier post where if something cost us 50 mill today and we cant afford it, if they were to fix dupes and remove gold, 1.5 million could almost be as hard to attain as 50 mill.

In todays game with no duping it is easier to attain 1 million gold from just killing spawn, where in the past that was almost impossible.

 

[Nyses]

Actually you are wrong about the inflation
We have both been around long enough to remember gold once sold for $20 a million. Before duping.

Duping would occur in equal amounts as today, back then.

Why, because you have to do this...

Dupe Valorite hammers and lets say they are worth 50 million (in todays UO game). Well the dupes go for let say (for point) 25 million.

TODAY
25 million today and $1 per million would cost you $25. Thats what the dupers want RL cash. Sell the hammer in game. Sell the gold outside of game.

Yester year
Gold WAS about $20 per million. (REMEMBER NO DUPING) That hammer would sell for 1.5 million in game 6,7 years ago. Or be put on EBAY auction. At 1.5 million that about $25 to $30 for the duper. It would get the price tag of 25 million. It wouldnt be worth $500 bucks. Its all relative to the value of 1 million gold.

Inflation fools us because we think 100 million means something in game, like 100 million in life.

Its not. Once you attach the selling value. Its all really the same.

I actually remember when 1 million UO gold was worth $80. It sold by the 100K way back when, but I digress.

I contend that the duping in UO has actually devalued many, many items in the game. I do not mean, just duped items (ie. val hammers now worth 15 mill, vs. 50 mill)

Stay with me now, many items have gotten more expensive as more and more money entered the UO economy. Powerscrolls, when they first came out, ranged from worthless to a couple mill. Now, the low end Powerscrolls are still worhtless, but the high end is up around 20 mill.

Now the stagnant part, or devalued items. Take something like Ingots, You could buy these off player vendors as long as there have been player vendors, usually around 10gp per. It was about that much, many years ago and it about that today, maybe up to 20gp per for Iron. Point is there is now 100 times (or more) the gold in all of UO that there was say, 8 years ago, but Ingots have remained the same price relatively speaking. Many other items are the same.

 

[Ravenspyre]

Exactly, if there was no gold, duping wouldn't be as bad because no one could afford to buy the item if it was expensive.

If you can only sell the duped item for cheap then its not worth duping on a large scale to begin with.

Economies rise and fall by the value of their currency not the value of goods or items. This is why in some countries an item may cost you 150,000 of their currency but it only adds up to $4.00 US. Printing more money makes its real value less.

Umm, you realllise the dupers are the reason the economy is out of whack right? The dupers are the reason people have to pay 100s of millions of gold for stuff. They are the simple problem, and it is foolish to say dupers are a cure.

Dupers are a major reason that UO sucks now.

 

[Arcus]

You're exactly right, I cant relate to that mentality. Nor would I ever want to. Cheating, stealing and exploiting aren't acceptable to me. If you are in that dire of straits, because you don't have the skills to acquire things in any other way, theres nothing anyone but you can do to change that. But that's just another reason people keep leaving this game. What kind of person with any self respect wants to associate with that kind of playerbase. Your laziness and ineptitude ruin the game for people who dont have a need to enter "cheat codes" to have a good time. But I dont expect you to understand that, why should you when things can just be so much easier your way. It's only cuz stupid EA made this game so freaking hard anyway right? We deserve to have everything in game handed to us in the easiest way possible, no matter what the outcome or how it effects anyone else.

My comment is in context to the people who are going to cheat. In life there are many different types of people, some with honor and some without.

In the cases where people are going to "cheat" not matter what, it is those cases that I was refering to with the MS Windows comment.

If you knew 100% that someone isn't going to spend the money on your product or anyone elses no matter what, you would rather have them pirate your stuff than your competitor. In the end you are familiarizing yourself with their product and again they prefer you to know about windows than Macs OS.

I've been playing this game non-stop since probably before you even heard of UO, Sept. 1997.

I have been through every bug exploit and gamechange that has occured since UO went live, have you?

If I choose to spend my time PvPing and not crafting that's my choice.

If EA makes this game so hard to get items thats their choice, but not my fault.

If I could spend 50 mill on a regular hammer or 15 Mill on a duped hammer, I'm going to buy the duped hammer, simple as that. Anyone who wouldnt is lying or stupid.

You see your integrity and heart are in the right place, but until EA can fix these issues, your spinning your wheels.

I just don't know what the answer is; but maybe to truly fix the economy they would more than likely need to a) fix all duping b) delete all gold on every account that exceeds 1 million.

This would hurt me a lot since I have a few hundred million gold and I'm sure it would upset a big portion of rich or vet players.

In the end you cant make everyone happy... the grass is always greener bla bla bla..

I jsut think that the resoures used to fix the bug could be used elsewhere to correct issues that in "my mind" are more important, like PvP balance.

At the end of the day buying an item for less due to it being duped is less of a show stopper than balancing PvP or fixing factions or fixing Siege or fixing the flagging bug (or revamp PvP flagging system).

These are all things that affect significantly more players than the duping of itmes.

Spoken like a true cheater. You are the type of person who has ruined this game, and probably woundlt hesitate to steal IRL if given the chance. I mean , why pay for something when you can get it for free right? Yea...thats the type of person you are. Its spelled out clearly in your own words.

 

[AesSedai]

- This just in:

Cheating is (still) bad.

Stay tuned: We'll be sure to bring you more up-to-the-millennium news if the situation changes.

 

[Halister Marner]

- This just in:

Cheating is (still) bad.

Stay tuned: We'll be sure to bring you more up-to-the-millennium news if the situation changes.

Despite all the excuses and rational to de-vilify cheating by preaching the very few extremely debatable positives, that simple statement should appeal to anyone who has their heads in the clouds and bring them down to earth into reality.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

On a side note, we don't see this type of thing on Siege.

Just sayin...la

 

[o2bavr6]

Spoken like a true cheater. You are the type of person who has ruined this game, and probably woundlt hesitate to steal IRL if given the chance. I mean , why pay for something when you can get it for free right? Yea...thats the type of person you are. Its spelled out clearly in your own words.

You misunderstand my friend, I am not condoning cheating. I am saying that if I had to the choice to buy a real val hammer for 50 mill or a duped one for 15 mill, im going to buy the duped one. who wouldnt? And just becuase I feel this way, doesnt make me a duper or a cheater it makes me a thrifty buyer.

I am also saying that the duping of items isnt the main problem, it is or was the duping of gold that started the landslide of inflation which in turn caused people to dupe other items.

Also EA increased the gold amount on loot so its easier to get 1 mill gold these days.

Also how am i to know if the hammer i am buying is duped? Not by price. I suppose if a vendor had more than 1 or 2 on it, but what about the times you come across a vendor with just 1 val hammer on it... is it duped?

 

[o2bavr6]

Umm, you realllise the dupers are the reason the economy is out of whack right? .

Yes for sure, but it all originated from duped gold.

They are the simple problem, and it is foolish to say dupers are a cure.

Please show me where i said that dupers are a cure.

Dupers are a major reason that UO sucks now.

I would put more blame towards EA's and their inability to fix the problem. It's not like it hasnt been around for years and years.

 

[LeeHarvey]

Thank God, with out dupers we would have to do all the work ourselves.

I kinda read this as you saying cheating is pretty cool when it benefits you.

Must just be poor reading skills on my part. My bad...

 

[AesSedai]

Duping is cheating.

Doesn't matter how, when, where, what, who, or why.

o2bavr6
- If you are not condoning cheating then why are you 'debating' or making the argument that duping is in any way beneficial to the game?

There are:
Games.
&
Games have rules.

You aren't helping the game if you break the rules.
Rules too hard? Then change them but don't cheat.

 

[Tjalle]

I am saying that if I had to the choice to buy a real val hammer for 50 mill or a duped one for 15 mill, im going to buy the duped one. who wouldnt? And just becuase I feel this way, doesnt make me a duper or a cheater it makes me a thrifty buyer.

Unfortunately, this is the kind of mentality that keeps the dupers/cheaters in business and makes them stick around in this game...

 

[G.v.P]

Damn. This is a long thread. I stopped reading when someone compared 120 level powerscroll duping to valorite hammer duping. Ugh, lol, like anyone wastes their time duping powerscrolls.

I'm sure this has been said, but the current dupe does not require shard transfer and relies on the turn-in BOD, so the dupe is untraceable. I think Mythic needs to keep shard transfers disabled and let the community know why, in a general sense, like, "We are disabling shard transfers until we can fix a situation." Maybe it would be better for them not to acknowledge the dupe until it is fixed. Maybe disable the BOD system as well. But I don't know how many things can be duped with this new dupe. Seems like duping kits/hammer bods results in the best opportunity because it'll create a new item hammer/kit that can't be traceable. What if the BOD system was changed? Instead of getting BOD items, maybe make a new system that isn't as much of a grind.

How about a community collections in heartwood? Or replace all BODs with crafting quests with the random chance to get kits. I'd prefer a collection, that way we know how close we are to getting a kit/hammer. Maybe limit it per a day, so people can't do them 24/7.

 

[Violence]

If anyone knows how to dupe;

Build a site with pics and instructions of the kind you would use to walk a cretin through the procedure. All for a one-time fee of 15$.

Advertize it on a trial account and a new account on Stratics. Also on YouTube and MySpace by making relative videos and profiles there.

Create a vendor displaying duped goods, all crafted from a crafter on a trial account named "DupeBot".

That will have the following impact;

- You will help poor people by dropping the prices
- You will help rich people realize virtual wealth means nothing
- You will help the Devs to fix the exploit
- You will help new comers and old vets to get their dream suits and weapons
- You will help yourself by making real life money
- Trial accounts might get removed
- Val Hammers might become easier to get if the Devs notice how everyone needs them badly to compete in Item Wars (Not bashing items, I love items. Now let us have them ALL!?)

I could really go on.
And I'm really serious too.
It's what I'd do... Dunno if I would succeed on ALL of those things but even in just half of them would suffice. Especially if I at least convinced the Devs it's about time they get PunkBuster. LOL.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

If anyone knows how to dupe;

Build a site with pics and instructions of the kind you would use to walk a cretin through the procedure. All for a one-time fee of 15$.

Advertize it on a trial account and a new account on Stratics. Also on YouTube and MySpace by making relative videos and profiles there.

Create a vendor displaying duped goods, all crafted from a crafter on a trial account named "DupeBot".

That will have the following impact;

- You will help poor people by dropping the prices
- You will help rich people realize virtual wealth means nothing
- You will help the Devs to fix the exploit
- You will help new comers and old vets to get their dream suits and weapons
- You will help yourself by making real life money
- Trial accounts might get removed
- Val Hammers might become easier to get if the Devs notice how everyone needs them badly to compete in Item Wars (Not bashing items, I love items. Now let us have them ALL!?)

I could really go on.
And I'm really serious too.
It's what I'd do... Dunno if I would succeed on ALL of those things but even in just half of them would suffice. Especially if I at least convinced the Devs it's about time they get PunkBuster. LOL.

They have that. You get access to private and public exploits. I dont know what it costs. Not interested in the pay to know. But the public ones are interesting.

 

[o2bavr6]

I kinda read this as you saying cheating is pretty cool when it benefits you.

Must just be poor reading skills on my part. My bad...

All that states is that i'm to lazy to do the work myslef, and that I would probably never ever get to burn a valorite hammer, other than test shard, if it wasnt for dupers.

 

[Connor_Graham]

All that states is that i'm to lazy to do the work myslef, and that I would probably never ever get to burn a valorite hammer, other than test shard, if it wasnt for dupers.

If it wasn't for dupers, they wouldn't cost so much in the first place, but of course you haven't seemed to have grasped that concept yet.

 

[o2bavr6]

Unfortunately, this is the kind of mentality that keeps the dupers/cheaters in business and makes them stick around in this game...

Well you can fool your self all you want, but the fact is there is no way for us to know if an item has been duped.

So when I come accross a vendor that has a val hammer on it for 15 mill, what am i supposed to do? not buy it?

So what do we all do, just resign ourselves and never burn a val hammer again, unless we get it through bods ourselves?

Either way the fact of the matter is we all play this game for fun, and I do agree that the dupes and exploits and BUGS need to be fixed. BUt until there is a way i can know for sure an item is duped im going to buy it.

And if any of you people who got val hemmers legitimately on Chessy want to sell them to me, i'll give you 20 mill a piece for as many as you have.

 

[o2bavr6]

If it wasn't for dupers, they wouldn't cost so much in the first place, but of course you haven't seemed to have grasped that concept yet.

I guess your right, because before they were duped they cost 50 mill each, and after the dupe they cost 15 mill each.

I guess I am having trouble grapsing the concept.

 

[Connor_Graham]

What you're failing to grasp is the reason anything would cost 50mil can be laid solely at the feet of dupers. All you're doing is perpetuating the problem.

 

[o2bavr6]

What you're failing to grasp is the reason anything would cost 50mil can be laid solely at the feet of dupers. All you're doing is perpetuating the problem.

Actually I would blame the dupers and EA for letting it go on for so long.

Dupers ruined the economy with the influx of GOLD! Once the economy was ruined everything elses price rise was an effect and not the cause of the economy.

The rest of us are just people who play the game. As I said before how do we even know if any item is duped?

Do we just not buy items from venfors anymore?

Please tell me how I can tell if a val hammer is duped or not, so i can buy the un-duped one... as long as it costs 15-20 mill.

 

[Tjalle]

Unfortunately, this is the kind of mentality that keeps the dupers/cheaters in business and makes them stick around in this game...

Well you can fool your self all you want, but the fact is there is no way for us to know if an item has been duped.

So when I come accross a vendor that has a val hammer on it for 15 mill, what am i supposed to do? not buy it?

If you feel that the probability of it being duped is bigger than the probability of it not being duped, then yes. Otherwise you´re just adding to the problem.

And with all these hammers floating around (sure, some are probably made in an honest way) and people admitting that there are new ways to dupe them, then I´d say that the probability is pretty big.

And like you said yourself:

I am saying that if I had to the choice to buy a real val hammer for 50 mill or a duped one for 15 mill, im going to buy the duped one.

That means that you believe the cheap ones are in fact duped.

But then again, I´m aware that I can´t tell other people how they should play this game so...

 

[o2bavr6]

If you feel that the probability of it being duped is bigger than the probability of it not being duped, then yes. Otherwise you´re just adding to the problem.

And with all these hammers floating around (sure, some are probably made in an honest way) and people admitting that there are new ways to dupe them, then I´d say that the probability is pretty big.

I agree especially if a vendor has more than 2 val hammers on it.

But when an honest person wants to sell his val hammer now, what does he charge for it? does he still ask 50 mill cause its a "real" hammer? Or does he still end up having to price it at 15 mill because thats what the duped ones are selling for?

So in the end I have to either just say to myself, i would rather be honorable and just not buy any val hammers.

Or I just continue to play the game and attempt to better my armor, and buy val hammers when i come across them.

In the end duping is bad for the game, but i would still rather pay 15 mill than 50 mill for a val hammer.

I mentioned before that maybe a solution is to delete all gold on all accounts and vendors and in houses that exceed 1 mill in gold. Obviously EA will have had to already fixed all ways to dupe.

This is pretty drastic, but to truly fix the economy the amount of gold in the game has to be reduced.

Sadly prices are relative to the amount of gold people have so charging 1 mill for an item in a balanced economy may be just as unatainable to some people as charging 50 mill in an unbalanced economy.