53 Valorite Hammers for sale on Atlantic

[Ravenspyre]

No, they are going to mute any negative comments about the game or this site.

WORD.

And another thing... I will talk about any action taken against this account publicly. It is my account after all.

Actually, it's not your's at all. It's a membership pass, if you were to use an analogy, to a rather public club.

 

[Arcus]

This dupe has NOTHING to do with char transfers. You assume to much. Im certainly not going to tell you ths method, but lets say they are way off if that think that taking down char xfers will stop it. This one can dupe thigs exponentially. It horrible....its easy...it runining our game and the devs are busy playing games with stupid add ons and thigns they can sell.

If you truly knew the method and sent it in, then it would have been fixed probably the day after you messaged them. So either you don't know the method or you didn't send it in.

Are you serious JC? Are you off your rocker? Are you really suggesting that they would actually fix a bug quickly? Yea I sent it. What more do you want me to do? Chase around after the devs and beg them to fix it ASAP. I did what I was supposed to do , if they don't care or don't fix it there is nothing more I can do.

My soapbox broke years ago.

 

[Kith Kanan]

hmm so everyone who has a few runic hammers are now cheaters , myself have been buying , collecting and hording high end runic hammers for years , in the meager hope that we one day would get more influence on the outcome , and because I dont buy any expensive deco I've played for a lot of years and own 10+ accounts , and use the cash on stuff that will/can give me an edge in pvm and pvp instead , runic made weapons and runic " kits " of any kind , I think i have maybe 5-6 val hammers and maybe 10 verite , mainly because it pains me for a month when I make a weapon with 111 luck , 8 poison resist , ice elemental , 51 di , and 60/40 split energy/cold with a val hammer.....

I dont have a clue if there is a dupe out there , but there certainly are peopel with more than 1 val hammer who didnt dupe em.....

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

There are 53 Valorite Runic Hammers for sale on Atlantic...

Compared to 1 or 0 on the other shards...

Wow....

Thats why I wont spend more then 12 mill on a valorite hammer. And you know what. The price is coming down.

Not worth paying honest gold for anything now a-days.

 

[o2bavr6]

they need to IP ban the people so that they can no longer play uo, not just the one account

Most people will have a Dynamic IP address as opposed to a static IP address. If you are receiving you IP via DHCP, if you turn you computer off for a while,when you turn it back on you may be assigned a differrent IP address from the ISP.

Also if they try to add the MAC address as well, you can just get a new cable modem or whatever device you have.

Now if they work together with the ISP, that is a different story

 

[o2bavr6]

If I may say sir, the shorterm gain does not out due the long term damage to the game. In order to correct the flooded market the game would have to undergo changes similar to those with the advent of AoS. What I mean is that all items before AoS became primarily useless, which meant everyone had to adapt to the new system. To overcome such an issue as of the latest dupe we may well have to see another system overhaul. As of now these dupes have lead to rediculous suits with rediculous weapons.

The developers could have indeed reverted the server after the publish, as they knew within 24 hours of the publish that a dupe was present. (not this publish...but last publish brought out the nasty dupe.) The ironic thing was that two bugs created over a period of three publishes were what caused the dupe to once again work. Two bugs created by *fixes* to the games mechanics...imagine that!

@kratos...with this last dupe they didnt even need to transfer between shards.

Let me play devils advocate:

With the market flooded Val hammers now go for around 20 mill each instead of 50 mill each.

How does a price drop hurt anyone? It makes the hammers more attainable to everyone.

The crazy armor and weapons that people make have also dropped in price since there are so many of them out there.

No different than using a bronze hammer to make weapons. You may make a really nice weapon with one, but you cant sell it for much more then the hammer itself is worth.

This doesn't hurt the legit person who gets a val hammer in the legit way with exception for that he cant sell it for 50 mill.

I don't want to condone duping, but as long as EA can not fix the problem, I say take advantage of it. If you have the gold, buy the cheap hammers now before they fix the dupe.

EA has no one to blame but itself if its not happy with people duping. The simple resolution is to fix it... If they can't then hammers should be left alone with no deleting.. after all why penalize the legit player.. also if you have never tried to get a val hammer via bods, do so before you say delete them anyway.

 

[Connor_Graham]

No different than using a bronze hammer to make weapons. You may make a really nice weapon with one, but you cant sell it for much more then the hammer itself is worth.

This is incorrect. Not every hammer turns out that really nice weapon. There are only certain property combinations that are considered to be desireable. It only takes 1 undesireable property on a weapon to ruin the entire thing, and the undesireable properties come up more often than not.

This doesn't hurt the legit person who gets a val hammer in the legit way with exception for that he cant sell it for 50 mill.

That's a pretty big hit to the legitimate Smith. That's a 30mil loss on a single runic. Trivializing it doesn't change the fact that a legitimate seller has now lost more than half of the revenue they would normally have received.

I don't want to condone duping, but as long as EA can not fix the problem, I say take advantage of it. If you have the gold, buy the cheap hammers now before they fix the dupe.

So...if you can't beat 'em, join 'em? That doesn't work in the real world either.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

This is incorrect. Not every hammer turns out that really nice weapon. There are only certain property combinations that are considered to be desireable. It only takes 1 undesireable property on a weapon to ruin the entire thing, and the undesireable properties come up more often than not.



That's a pretty big hit to the legitimate Smith. That's a 30mil loss on a single runic. Trivializing it doesn't change the fact that a legitimate seller has now lost more than half of the revenue they would normally have received.



So...if you can't beat 'em, join 'em? That doesn't work in the real world either.

Duping hurts the guy that spent 6 month to get the valorite hammer bodding.
It hurts the guy that spent 30 million 3 months ago on a hammer.


So it harms peoples play.

Now, that being said. Here is how it can hurt in game. I will buy the hammers for my prices. At a price I feel, I cant lose more. By the way hammers are down to 15 million. People that are paying more are losing in game. The duper or legit player (that bodded themselve to 25 valorite hammers) make out. So I say, "Ill just buy at low prices and wont get harmed". But now my actions harm the legit valorite guys. Who are they? Well dont you know everyone that has 15 or less (sarcasm).

Its not an increase in hammers. It a down right flood.

How else does it harm. Well I havent been able to move my sonoma characture to atlantic. Now I am actually paying money to maintain the account a bit longer.

Thats real dollars.

As a merchant, I just buy what the market bears. So as my merchant buys and sells, my game play is fine. But I am harmed in RL (so to speak). EA gets another month out of me.

 

[o2bavr6]

This is incorrect. Not every hammer turns out that really nice weapon. There are only certain property combinations that are considered to be desireable. It only takes 1 undesireable property on a weapon to ruin the entire thing, and the undesireable properties come up more often than not.

You are correct, in fact I think that burning weapons with Val hammers is dumb, but armor on the other hand is worth it. And you can get some really nice pieces regularly from Val hammers.

Think of it this way though, when Val hammers cost 50 Mill each, an UBER weapon could cost you as much as 150 Mill+. With Val hammers down to 20 Mill the uber weapons have droped as well to around 60 to 80 Mill.

That's a pretty big hit to the legitimate Smith. That's a 30mil loss on a single runic. Trivializing it doesn't change the fact that a legitimate seller has now lost more than half of the revenue they would normally have received.

It seems that in todays game the Val hammer is one of the most expenisve item that one can either get from loot or prize. So if a bod runner can only get 20 mill each instead of 50 mill each I don't care. They shouldn't even sell for 20 mill, but it's EA's programming and poorly thought out game content additions that perpetuate this type of pricing.

So...if you can't beat 'em, join 'em? That doesn't work in the real world either.

When EA can balance the game out for everyone and remove all bugs and dupes, it is then that I will care.

And it is exactly how it works in the real world.. The nice guy does finish last while everyone else gets fat.

You see, I try to make my own "community" style of play. And even though I play a red mostly, I still try to play like I did in 1997, meaning if I win I res the person, I don't loot them, bla bla bla.

In the end the only person who suffers from duped items is the legit bod runner, and if they could fix the dupe mst bod runners who got Val hammers would burn them, not sell them.. And if they sold them, they would sell them to their clsoe friends or guildies first

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

You are correct, in fact I think that burning weapons with Val hammers is dumb, but armor on the other hand is worth it. And you can get some really nice pieces regularly from Val hammers.

Think of it this way though, when Val hammers cost 50 Mill each, an UBER weapon could cost you as much as 150 Mill+. With Val hammers down to 20 Mill the uber weapons have droped as well to around 60 to 80 Mill.





It seems that in todays game the Val hammer is one of the most expenisve item that one can either get from loot or prize. So if a bod runner can only get 20 mill each instead of 50 mill each I don't care. They shouldn't even sell for 20 mill, but it's EA's programming and poorly thought out game content additions that perpetuate this type of pricing.





When EA can balance the game out for everyone and remove all bugs and dupes, it is then that I will care.

And it is exactly how it works in the real world.. The nice guy does finish last while everyone else gets fat.

You see, I try to make my own "community" style of play. And even though I play a red mostly, I still try to play like I did in 1997, meaning if I win I res the person, I don't loot them, bla bla bla.

In the end the only person who suffers from duped items is the legit bod runner, and if they could fix the dupe mst bod runners who got Val hammers would burn them, not sell them.. And if they sold them, they would sell them to their clsoe friends or guildies first

The legit player absolutely loses. But since its a game, I care much less then real life. Ive lost in game. But can always walk away and say its a game. Thats why I put this on the devs to create a game that I will continue to play.

Simple as that.

As for a moral stance and blah blah. Its a game. In real life, my work, etc, I make stands and live the best I can.

It really doesnt fall much beyond this.

DEVS make changes. Not exactly right. No big deal, fix it ASAP.

DEVS make change and create a huge DUPING WHOLE. Shame on them for not being able to monitor the creation of 200 valorite hammers. The endless Xsharding by dupers.

COME ON.
The solution. Make Xshard 1x monthly. You can go and come back 1x a month per account.

Implement a monitoring system that DEVS can review when someone transers. Its not rocket science.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Think of it this way though, when Val hammers cost 50 Mill each, an UBER weapon could cost you as much as 150 Mill+. With Val hammers down to 20 Mill the uber weapons have droped as well to around 60 to 80 Mill.

This is just one more thing that hurts the legitimate crafter.

I don't care.

This pretty much sums it up. As long as it benefits you personally, you're all for it and screw the legitimate players that spent hours upon hours of time towards getting that one hammer they might get.

And it is exactly how it works in the real world.. The nice guy does finish last while everyone else gets fat.

This statement is as untrue in RL as it is in UO.

In the end the only person who suffers from duped items is the legit bod runner, and if they could fix the dupe mst bod runners who got Val hammers would burn them, not sell them.

Incorrect. They'd sell the Val hammer and buy a couple of Aggy or Verite hammers and bank the rest.

And if they sold them, they would sell them to their clsoe friends or guildies first

While this certainly does happen, it's not necessarily true in all cases.

 

[o2bavr6]

Duping hurts the guy that spent 6 month to get the valorite hammer bodding.

Not if he burns the kit, then he got it for free.

It hurts the guy that spent 30 million 3 months ago on a hammer.

I guess I should be mad that my house has lost value with the housing glut here in Fla. I guess it's the developers faults who built to many new homes.
Prices on goods are never static they will always fluctuate. I seem to recall paying under $2 a gallon for gas and now it's over $4.. If they could dupe gas prices would drop

How else does it harm. Well I havent been able to move my sonoma characture to atlantic. Now I am actually paying money to maintain the account a bit longer.

Thats real dollars.

If you do bods to get val hammers for yourself to burn you are not losing out, if you do bods to get val hammers to sell them I don't care if you lose out because the price you want is not reasonable.

Greed perpetuated the dupes, if the items were easier to get legitimaly people woulnd't dupe. Also because they are hard to get people get greedy and ask for riduculous amounts of gold for them so that makes resourceful people look for a way to dupe.

So duping is due to EA decisions on how the game works and greedy bod runners.

 

[o2bavr6]

This statement is as untrue in RL as it is in UO.

I guess then that here in the US we aren't losing our middle class. You only have too look at the current administration to see I am correct.

 

[Connor_Graham]

So duping is due to EA decisions on how the game works and greedy bod runners.

Of course it has nothing to do with the greedy, lazy people that do everything they can to figure out how to cheat so they can turn around and sell the gold for RL money.

Yeah....it has NOTHING to do with them.....

 

[o2bavr6]

Incorrect. They'd sell the Val hammer and buy a couple of Aggy or Verite hammers and bank the rest.

This is what lies at the heart of what I am saying, it is the bod runners greed for gold and making ridiculous prices that make them sell the item in the first place and then just burn Aggy/Verite hammers.

So other than bod runners this hurts no one. If bod runners sold them for reasonable prices we wouldnt have duping would we.

 

[o2bavr6]

Of course it has nothing to do with the greedy, lazy people that do everything they can to figure out how to cheat so they can turn around and sell the gold for RL money.

Yeah....it has NOTHING to do with them.....

Yes it does have to do with that but again it was the UO player who set the prices.

Do you think for a second that people would bother duping val hammers if they sold for 10 mill each?

How come no one complains about 120 Eval or Magery scrolls being duped then?

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Not if he burns the kit, then he got it for free.



I guess I should be mad that my house has lost value with the housing glut here in Fla. I guess it's the developers faults who built to many new homes.
Prices on goods are never static they will always fluctuate. I seem to recall paying under $2 a gallon for gas and now it's over $4.. If they could dupe gas prices would drop




If you do bods to get val hammers for yourself to burn you are not losing out, if you do bods to get val hammers to sell them I don't care if you lose out because the price you want is not reasonable.

Greed perpetuated the dupes, if the items were easier to get legitimaly people woulnd't dupe. Also because they are hard to get people get greedy and ask for riduculous amounts of gold for them so that makes resourceful people look for a way to dupe.

So duping is due to EA decisions on how the game works and greedy bod runners.

Sure. You made me laugh.
And your the kind of guy that will sell me your 25,000 point spring ticket for 100k cause it was so easy to get. And the crimson you got off the Strangers for 1 million, because its the kind of guy your are. Please.

I cant tell a fellow that just wants to speak to argue. But you might be one of them.

*laughs*

Oh your real life comparison doesnt make sense. You lost money on your housing because of greed.

Duping doesnt become of greed, it happens because people can. Dont confuse a game with life.

AND DANG I wish they would dupe gas. That would solve it all.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Yes it does have to do with that but again it was the UO player who set the prices.

Do you think for a second that people would bother duping val hammers if they sold for 10 mill each?

How come no one complains about 120 Eval or Magery scrolls being duped then?

Oh brother. You dont get it.
Because this is about valorite hammers.
Duping is a problem because it circumvents game play.
I dont get what your missing.

And duh people will dupe valorite hammers forever, look at barbed kits.

10 million times 100 sold
is the same as 20 million times 50 sold.
If they sell in a day or 2 weeks. It doesnt matter. The get used up.

You do get being a game, a runic hammer is something to do, and it creates sweet stuff. And the get used up.

So as long as they are there, they will be burned.

The problem is now. That players dont need better stuff. Since nothing leaves the game or your body... what else do you need to craft?

How many barbed kits or valorite hammers do you need?

The market has become satured with uber stuff. And now the flow of hammers is pouring.

Sales will be slower but the will sell.

 

[Connor_Graham]

This is what lies at the heart of what I am saying, it is the bod runners greed for gold and making ridiculous prices that make them sell the item in the first place and then just burn Aggy/Verite hammers.

Firstly, not every Smith that gets a Val hammer is a "bod runner". A bod runner is a character with minimal skill that does nothing but get bods for the primary Smith of the account to fill.

Secondly, not everyone that plays their Smith enough has mutiple bod runners to obtain bods for them.

That said, it takes months worth of time spent in game working with a Smith to get all of the bods necessary to obtain a Val hammer. Selling it for whatever the non-duped affected market price would be is no different than a Doom runner selling an Orny back before the changes for 40-60mil. The rarity of the object dictates the price. You call the legitimate Smiths greedy, yet it's the dupers that are creating the hammers with no time or effort involved, yet still charging multi millions for it. According to your logic, they should only be selling them for 10k with time & effort to obtain factored in.

Now who's greedy? Duping is done OUT of greed. No other reason. They aren't duping because they're playing the UO humanitarian and want to lower the market price. They're doing it to fill their own RL pockets with the money obtained by selling the gold they get from selling the duped hammers.

So other than legitimate Smiths, this hurts no one. If Smiths sold them for reasonable prices we wouldnt have duping would we.

I fixed it for you. Bod runners don't sell smith rewards. Smiths do. Considering that it can take months, and sometimes years, to obtain all of the bods required to get a Val hammer, the time invested along with the demand determines the cost, just like an Orny from Doom used to cost 40-60mil because they only dropped once every 4-6 months or so. All a duper did was buy one legitimate hammer, then turn around and dupe it over and over again. No time invested, not even resources invested to fill the bod, yet they're still asking millions for zero effort. You should be screaming at the dupers for ripping you off, not knocking legitimate Smiths that actually put the time in to get a legitimate hammer.

 

[Trebr Drab]

I fixed it for you. Bod runners don't sell smith rewards. Smiths do. Considering that it can take months, and sometimes years, to obtain all of the bods required to get a Val hammer, the time invested along with the demand determines the cost, just like an Orny from Doom used to cost 40-60mil because they only dropped once every 4-6 months or so. All a duper did was buy one legitimate hammer, then turn around and dupe it over and over again. No time invested, not even resources invested to fill the bod, yet they're still asking millions for zero effort. You should be screaming at the dupers for ripping you off, not knocking legitimate Smiths that actually put the time in to get a legitimate hammer.

First, it's only because of cheating that there's that much gold around. And that drove prices so high that only more cheating can allow others to afford these kinds of prices, with very rare exceptions.

Secondly, if you're going to put items like these in a game, as a developer, you have a choice to do it in a random or static fashion. By putting these items in statically cheaters know exactly what it takes to get one. This allows for the cheating in the first place.

Formula for successful economic cheating:
-Have highly desirable object of rarity as target
-Know how, when, and where to get it
-make scripts and/or use dupes to do so.


UO developers are at fault for knowing this and doing it anyways, or not thinking about this in the first place.

In my mind, the whole runic system was screwed from the get go, as well as the "rares" stealables and other aspects that came along with AoS.

 

[o2bavr6]

Sure. You made me laugh.
And your the kind of guy that will sell me your 25,000 point spring ticket for 100k cause it was so easy to get. And the crimson you got off the Strangers for 1 million, because its the kind of guy your are. Please.

Actully I have not participated in the trade in, there is no item I want. In fact I drop all my spawn srolls at Luna bank if no one in my guild wants them. I also drop the virtue armor on the ground as well as stuff like staff of pyros etc. Since i Throw the stuff away, it makes it hard to sell points, doesnt it?

But you might be one of them.

I do love a debate, but in this case i'm not just arguing to argue, I just dont see the issue. duping does not stop the honest person from gettng his own val hammers. It's not like there is a finite amount of hammer and the dupers get them before anyone else.

Oh your real life comparison doesnt make sense. You lost money on your housing because of greed.

You are correct, what i was infering to was that prices rise and drop, and when they drop it happens, like the housing market.

Duping doesnt become of greed, it happens because people can. Dont confuse a game with life.

I'm not sure I understand but, the reason people dupe is usualy for monitary gain, or some kind of "gain". Gain and greed are not exclusive, but they sure go hand in hand.

AND DANG I wish they would dupe gas. That would solve it all.

No kidding, I wish the dupers could figure out a way to dupe gas, how funny would that be... we woul d have all the oil companies running around crying "dupers" We need to get rid of the dupers!!

 

[o2bavr6]

Oh brother. You dont get it.
Because this is about valorite hammers.
Duping is a problem because it circumvents game play.
I dont get what your missing.

Well if dupers were to burn val hammers for themselves and not sell them, then it would be an issue, but they do sell them and at lower prices.

Yes it circumvents game play but who does it hurt? It hurts the bod runner who wants to sell the item for 50 mill each. I have no sympathy for them at those prices.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Well if dupers were to burn val hammers for themselves and not sell them, then it would be an issue, but they do sell them and at lower prices.

Yes it circumvents game play but who does it hurt? It hurts the bod runner who wants to sell the item for 50 mill each. I have no sympathy for them at those prices.

All right. Ill give you - you like to debate.

But you cant state a 50 million price is to high with out looking at the ridiculous amount of gold in game.

And not every player that goes after a valorite hammer is a full time bodder.

I dont bod. Its painfully boring to me. I play a merchant. Simple enough to buy and resell. But my prices reflect gold in the economy.

I basically try and sell for 20% to 50% of what I buy for. I can tell you I make more gold when duping is around. I see gold paid for items shoot up.
Eventually it balances out and I make 20% to 50% a sale.

The duper however gets maximum price.
That is... discover dupe.
Sell for valorite current price lets say 50 mill while dupe is still a secret.



Over time gold dupe trickles in. Hammers trickle in and price fall fast.

I come in and buy at 15 million and sell for 17 million or use. Or whatever.

Now I am selling my hammer for 17 million (as an example). I make 2 million over maybe 60 minutes of my time to actually find a hammer and put it on my vendor. As a merchant I go with the flow of the market.


Why would a smith that spends months getting a legit hammer the old fashion way not deserve a market value uninfluenced by duping?

Be it 50 million, 40 million, 30 million. How can you say they are greedy?

You may drop stuff on the floor but the ones picking it up are sometimes selling it for market value. Are they greedy?

And besides how can you be greedy by pricing? If its to high your not gaining anything. You paying vendor fees. Thats pricing stupidity.

Greed to me, is going after a gluttony of the same object. Wanting 50 ornies and running doom/buying up and holding them for top gold and eventually getting stuck with them for a loss because now you can get them for 10 million. Basically, your greed is in buying up and getting burned. IMO thats greed.

 

[o2bavr6]

Firstly, not every Smith that gets a Val hammer is a "bod runner". A bod runner is a character with minimal skill that does nothing but get bods for the primary Smith of the account to fill.

Secondly, not everyone that plays their Smith enough has mutiple bod runners to obtain bods for them.

That said, it takes months worth of time spent in game working with a Smith to get all of the bods necessary to obtain a Val hammer. Selling it for whatever the non-duped affected market price would be is no different than a Doom runner selling an Orny back before the changes for 40-60mil. The rarity of the object dictates the price. You call the legitimate Smiths greedy, yet it's the dupers that are creating the hammers with no time or effort involved, yet still charging multi millions for it. According to your logic, they should only be selling them for 10k with time & effort to obtain factored in.

Now who's greedy? Duping is done OUT of greed. No other reason. They aren't duping because they're playing the UO humanitarian and want to lower the market price. They're doing it to fill their own RL pockets with the money obtained by selling the gold they get from selling the duped hammers.



I fixed it for you. Bod runners don't sell smith rewards. Smiths do. Considering that it can take months, and sometimes years, to obtain all of the bods required to get a Val hammer, the time invested along with the demand determines the cost, just like an Orny from Doom used to cost 40-60mil because they only dropped once every 4-6 months or so. All a duper did was buy one legitimate hammer, then turn around and dupe it over and over again. No time invested, not even resources invested to fill the bod, yet they're still asking millions for zero effort. You should be screaming at the dupers for ripping you off, not knocking legitimate Smiths that actually put the time in to get a legitimate hammer.

I know where you are coming from and do understand, but I look at it in a much more simple manner.

Without dupers, probably 5% of the population would ever get the opportunity to burn a val hammer.

Without dupers val hammers would sell for well over 50 mill each.

Why should any item in this game cost that much? It just shouldn't.

The way I see it, I thank dupers for giving me the opportunity to get a val hammer let alone to get one at a reasonable price.

 

[o2bavr6]

First, it's only because of cheating that there's that much gold around. And that drove prices so high that only more cheating can allow others to afford these kinds of prices, with very rare exceptions.

Secondly, if you're going to put items like these in a game, as a developer, you have a choice to do it in a random or static fashion. By putting these items in statically cheaters know exactly what it takes to get one. This allows for the cheating in the first place.

Formula for successful economic cheating:
-Have highly desirable object of rarity as target
-Know how, when, and where to get it
-make scripts and/or use dupes to do so.


UO developers are at fault for knowing this and doing it anyways, or not thinking about this in the first place.

In my mind, the whole runic system was screwed from the get go, as well as the "rares" stealables and other aspects that came along with AoS.

I agree with you here. But it is a lot easier to make large summs of gold today, compared to the old days. I can make 1 mill a day easily from killing spawn.

 

[THP]

Prices on goods are never static they will always fluctuate. I seem to recall paying under $2 a gallon for gas and now it's over $4.. If they could dupe gas prices would drop

wow sooooo cheap

try $10 in the uk per gallon!!

 

[JC the Builder]

This is incorrect. Not every hammer turns out that really nice weapon.

Who said anything about making weapons? People are using Valorite Hammers to make armor now. You get 5-10 really good pieces per hammer compared to the rare one with a Barbed Runic Kit.

 

[o2bavr6]

But you cant state a 50 million price is to high with out looking at the ridiculous amount of gold in game.

Now I think that gold being duped is much worse, and its duped gold that has put the economy out of whack.

Why would a smith that spends months getting a legit hammer the old fashion way not deserve a market value uninfluenced by duping?

As you said the value of the hammer is dictated by the duped gold. If there was no duped gold or items in this game you really think the val hammer would cost as much as they do?

Greed to me, is going after a gluttony of the same object. Wanting 50 ornies and running doom/buying up and holding them for top gold and eventually getting stuck with them for a loss because now you can get them for 10 million. Basically, your greed is in buying up and getting burned. IMO thats greed.

Definitions of greed on the Web:
excessive desire to acquire or possess more (especially more material wealth) than one needs or deserves.

What does "your greed is in buying up and getting burned. IMO thats greed" mean?

How am I getting burned? If I buy a val hammer i burn it, I use what i need I give away the rest to guildmates for free no matter how uber they are?

You see I play the game for fun, and fun includes giving stuff away even if I paid for it. I've been playing since 1997 and with the changes in the game the one thing that I really enjoy, other than PvP is helping out my guildmates and friends.

An Orny means nothing to me, in fact I offered my spare to a guildmate, but he wouldnt take it because he thought it was to valuable to be given as a gift... go figure.

And to be honest I will burn charges on a val hammer for an item a guildie is trying to get, again I don't really care about the gold.

The fact of the matter is this game is riddled with issues and duping is one of them, but I don't see it as the worst of all the issues.

So to get back to your greed statement, it is everyone else who is greedy because they want to be able to sell these items for ridiculous prices. And yes 6 months is too long to take to get one legitimately but EA should have fixed that as well, but they haven't.

 

[o2bavr6]

Who said anything about making weapons? People are using Valorite Hammers to make armor now. You get 5-10 really good pieces per hammer compared to the rare one with a Barbed Runic Kit.

EXACTLY!!

You should see the sick armor I make

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

O2

Some things mean nothing to you because you find other value in game.

But just because people sell at 50 million (lets say) its not out of greed. Its what the GAME market bears or is that bares.

ive played 9 years or so.

Took me a year to get to 500k when I started. Im more proud of that then the millions I made selling AOS cloth. Proud as in a goal.

The warped economy really doesnt equate to 50 million being that much, I guess is my other point.

Any new player could jump right into the game economy in 3 ways.

YOU and player like you given them stuff that can be used or sold.
Me and player like me that have given house and gold to players.
PLAYERS that go to the tuff spawn and get some high priced drops.
PLAYERS that learn quick to buy and resell new items.

For instance. I dont care if the economy is TRILLIONS OF gold or something. I want to flip items as a mechant.

If the currency is in SMUCKERS JELLY. Well if I buy something for 10 SMUCKS, Id want to sell it for a minimum of 12 SMUCKS.

If in 5 years that 10 SMUCK ITEM is worth 1 MILLION SMUCKS because of more SMUCKS coming onto the marketthen Id want to sell it for 1.2 MILLION SMUCKS.

I wouldnt say well back in my time that was worth 10 SMUCKS so let me sell it to you for that.

Where greed fails in there I dont know.

Remember that 1 MILLION SMUCKS ITEM that I sell for 1.2 MILLION SMUCKS might be worth 2 MILLION SMUCKS. I just want to make my profit. Though in that case Id probably ask 1.5 MILLION SMUCKS. Who am i smucking kidding.

 

[o2bavr6]

O2

Some things mean nothing to you because you find other value in game.

But just because people sell at 50 million (lets say) its not out of greed. Its what the GAME market bears or is that bares.

ive played 9 years or so.

Took me a year to get to 500k when I started. Im more proud of that then the millions I made selling AOS cloth. Proud as in a goal.

The warped economy really doesnt equate to 50 million being that much, I guess is my other point.

Any new player could jump right into the game economy in 3 ways.

YOU and player like you given them stuff that can be used or sold.
Me and player like me that have given house and gold to players.
PLAYERS that go to the tuff spawn and get some high priced drops.
PLAYERS that learn quick to buy and resell new items.

For instance. I dont care if the economy is TRILLIONS OF gold or something. I want to flip items as a mechant.

If the currency is in SMUCKERS JELLY. Well if I buy something for 10 SMUCKS, Id want to sell it for a minimum of 12 SMUCKS.

If in 5 years that 10 SMUCK ITEM is worth 1 MILLION SMUCKS because of more SMUCKS coming onto the marketthen Id want to sell it for 1.2 MILLION SMUCKS.

I wouldnt say well back in my time that was worth 10 SMUCKS so let me sell it to you for that.

Where greed fails in there I dont know.

Remember that 1 MILLION SMUCKS ITEM that I sell for 1.2 MILLION SMUCKS might be worth 2 MILLION SMUCKS. I just want to make my profit. Though in that case Id probably ask 1.5 MILLION SMUCKS. Who am i smucking kidding.

I remember when making 500K was a major accomplishment , shame it still isn't.

I do belive though that it is duped gold that causes the inflation.
And yes I do think that you should be able to sell something for whatever you can get for it.... but if it wasn't for the amount of "Gold" the crazy 50mill+ prices wouldnt be around.

Now being able to afford something is proportional to what you have so if 50
Mill is too much with gold dupes, then 5 mill would probably be too much without gold dupes.

I'll be back, for some reason i have a craving for a PBJ

 

[Setnaffa]

This is what lies at the heart of what I am saying, it is the bod runners greed for gold and making ridiculous prices that make them sell the item in the first place and then just burn Aggy/Verite hammers.

So other than bod runners this hurts no one. If bod runners sold them for reasonable prices we wouldnt have duping would we.

Bod Runner's greed? BOD Runners want to make gold just as much (and no more than) anyone else in this game.



I run 28 GM+ Smiths/Tailors on 2 shards. I average 2.5 BOD runs per day. That's around 500 BODs of each type (smith and tailor) each week. I fill around 200 iron BODs/tailor BODs. So I spend 3.5 hours a week doing BOD runs and around 3 or 4 hours filling BODs. Another couple of hours doing BOD turn-ins gets me up to around 10 hours a week doing BODs.

For that investment of time into the game, I received 1 Val Hammer from 2004-2008 (most of that time with less than 28 BOD runners). Since February when they made the huge change to BOD quality, I've received the BODs to fill 2 more Val hammers (I've filled one, but I still need to move some of the smalls from Pac to Napa to finish the other).

What price would you put on my time? It takes much more time to earn 1 agapite Hammer than someone doing the DOOM gauntlet. I can earn at least a million gold a day doing gold farming in Hythloth. So why shouldn't an Agapite Hammer go for 5 million gold?

I have used both Val hammers and almost every Agapite and Verite hammer I've ever earned. Why? Because I like to make awesome weapons! I keep the best and sell or throw away the rest.

Does it bother me when I see a dupe that has allowed someone else to have 50+ val hammers? Well, of course! Why does it bother me? The primary reason it bothers me is because someone is cheating in the game and EA/Mythic doesn't appear to be doing anything about it. By the time they do something about it, the hammers will be used up and only legitimate-looking weapons/armor will be left.

Do I care what the price is for Val hammers? Well, sort of. I probably will never sell one, but when I see the price fall, I know there is a cheat involved.

Why do I spend so much time doing BOD's? It's what I enjoy doing in the game. If I was doing it strictly for the gold, I would have quit long ago since I have more gold than I can spend (around 200 million right now, since I've sold alot). I've decided to stop selling gold out of the game because that's just not worth my time.

Well, enough babbling.

 

[Doomsday Dragon]

A few months ago a certain guild disbanded and formed an alliance of smaller guilds. The guildmaster started a post on their forum about how he is preoccupied with a mass banning. You can draw your own connection. Also, this guild (now guilds) contains members from an infamous guild that was banned several years ago.

You don't mean infamous as in [HAX] infamous do you lol.

 

[Trebr Drab]

First, it's only because of cheating that there's that much gold around. And that drove prices so high that only more cheating can allow others to afford these kinds of prices, with very rare exceptions.

Secondly, if you're going to put items like these in a game, as a developer, you have a choice to do it in a random or static fashion. By putting these items in statically cheaters know exactly what it takes to get one. This allows for the cheating in the first place.

Formula for successful economic cheating:
-Have highly desirable object of rarity as target
-Know how, when, and where to get it
-make scripts and/or use dupes to do so.


UO developers are at fault for knowing this and doing it anyways, or not thinking about this in the first place.

In my mind, the whole runic system was screwed from the get go, as well as the "rares" stealables and other aspects that came along with AoS.

I agree with you here. But it is a lot easier to make large summs of gold today, compared to the old days. I can make 1 mill a day easily from killing spawn.

Really? I can't. You have to be a powergamer, which I'm not, as well as have the equipment that you can only get as a powergamer, to do this. I'm not against powergaming, if that's what you like. I'm against the need to powergame. Which leaves me and players like me out in the cold to some degree or another.

 

[Scratch]

none of this would be an issues if AOS never came out and added all the numbers to the game killing off crafters and theives at the same time.

 

[Connor_Graham]

none of this would be an issues if AOS never came out and added all the numbers to the game killing off crafters and theives at the same time.

Crafters are far from dead. If anything, the recent runic changes, both Smith & Tailor, have Smiths & Tailors being used as much as they were in "the good ol' days". No, you won't see them hanging out at the local forge or tailor shop, but given the number of lowlifes that are duping, scripting, and scamming in the game today, not many people would trust their extremely valuable items to a stranger. Plus everyone has their own Smith/Tailor now, which wasn't the case back then, so there's no need for them to.

 

[Theo_GL]

Well if dupers were to burn val hammers for themselves and not sell them, then it would be an issue, but they do sell them and at lower prices.

Yes it circumvents game play but who does it hurt? It hurts the bod runner who wants to sell the item for 50 mill each. I have no sympathy for them at those prices.

The price of something is supply and demand. Don't get mad at the person selling the item if the price is too high. Go out and acquire it yourself if you don't want to pay 50 mil. Oh wait - its 50 mil because its so DARN HARD TO GET.

The price is dropping because it was duped and thus it is now easier to acquire.

The problem is - its not for the legitimate player (ie Setnaffa, Me, and other bodding smiths).


Why don't you take this whole argument and substitute 'Microsoft' for Smiths and 'Windows XP/Vista' for Val Hammer and turn yourself chinese.

IE - They 'dupe' Windows like mad in China and sell it from every street corner for $1. The chinese buy it for $1. Is this stealing? Is there a problem with this?

Then why is it not a problem in UO if someone dupes a val hammer bod?


I agree that Val hammers are too darn hard to get legitimately but I also don't believe in paying a cheater 15mil for one either.

Now that they are easy to get - maybe EA should go back to giving out a chance at one from blackrock so maybe the rest of us can have a chance besides waiting out the bod game.

I don't have the dedication that setnaffa has on bods. In fact, I'm losing dedication to this game period. Its a cheaters paradise with very little to do besides acquire more crap that has less and less value each day.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

The price of something is supply and demand. Don't get mad at the person selling the item if the price is too high. Go out and acquire it yourself if you don't want to pay 50 mil. Oh wait - its 50 mil because its so DARN HARD TO GET.

The price is dropping because it was duped and thus it is now easier to acquire.

The problem is - its not for the legitimate player (ie Setnaffa, Me, and other bodding smiths).


Why don't you take this whole argument and substitute 'Microsoft' for Smiths and 'Windows XP/Vista' for Val Hammer and turn yourself chinese.

IE - They 'dupe' Windows like mad in China and sell it from every street corner for $1. The chinese buy it for $1. Is this stealing? Is there a problem with this?

Then why is it not a problem in UO if someone dupes a val hammer bod?


I agree that Val hammers are too darn hard to get legitimately but I also don't believe in paying a cheater 15mil for one either.

Now that they are easy to get - maybe EA should go back to giving out a chance at one from blackrock so maybe the rest of us can have a chance besides waiting out the bod game.

I don't have the dedication that setnaffa has on bods. In fact, I'm losing dedication to this game period. Its a cheaters paradise with very little to do besides acquire more crap that has less and less value each day.

Dont forget a problems with the system is nothing wears out.
Tweak hammers still mean eventually the market is saturated and thus the price falls.

No not satured with hammers but all the stuff barbed kits and high end runic made.

 

[JC the Builder]

It is quite obvious at this point that character transfer are down to prevent the duped hammers from being moved. Only Atlantic has them for sale at the moment and it looks like Pacific might be starting.

 

[Erekose]

If they didnt care, char xfers wouldnt be down...

Let's hope they stay down forever.

 

[o2bavr6]

The price of something is supply and demand. Don't get mad at the person selling the item if the price is too high. Go out and acquire it yourself if you don't want to pay 50 mil. Oh wait - its 50 mil because its so DARN HARD TO GET. .

Agreed, but part of the reason they can ask for so much is the amount of gold that was duped. If the duped gold wasn't in the game the prices would be way lower, but as I said before, if the prices were lower because there was less gold, then 5 mill would seem like 50 mill.

Then why is it not a problem in UO if someone dupes a val hammer bod?

It is a problem, but it only affects a small percentage of players as opposed to Windows to which 80% of all computers use as an OS. Also if you have purchased Windows before you pay less for the new version.

And I think Microsoft actually likes it when people pirate their software because at the end of the day, you are using a microsoft product and will more than likely eventually buy something from them for your computer.

I may be wrong, but I think they would rather see me use a pirated version of Windows than going out to by a MAC instead.

I agree that Val hammers are too darn hard to get legitimately but I also don't believe in paying a cheater 15mil for one either.

I wish they would change the drop rate for people to make it easier, but if they don't I would rather pay a cheater 15 mill than paying 50 mill to someone who got one legitimately.

 

[the 4th man]

53 hammers at one time.....here's to the poster who said it is possible to have a few....a few generally means 3, they're talking 53 in existence at one time.....spare the bs, or we'll all need hip waders.

Another thing, one way to stop it, and this won't happen....don't buy them. Come on, 50 million....that kind of gold doesn't appear overnight, unless your dumb enough to buy outside gold, which means you're spending real life cash....(pathetic in itself)

Last, if the devs and EA allow this, then it's a 1/2 baked company run by idiots.

x-shards, wipe the whole thing, was lame from the get go.

 

[Laina]

Bod Runner's greed? BOD Runners want to make gold just as much (and no more than) anyone else in this game.



I run 28 GM+ Smiths/Tailors on 2 shards. I average 2.5 BOD runs per day. That's around 500 BODs of each type (smith and tailor) each week. I fill around 200 iron BODs/tailor BODs. So I spend 3.5 hours a week doing BOD runs and around 3 or 4 hours filling BODs. Another couple of hours doing BOD turn-ins gets me up to around 10 hours a week doing BODs.

For that investment of time into the game, I received 1 Val Hammer from 2004-2008 (most of that time with less than 28 BOD runners). Since February when they made the huge change to BOD quality, I've received the BODs to fill 2 more Val hammers (I've filled one, but I still need to move some of the smalls from Pac to Napa to finish the other).

What price would you put on my time? It takes much more time to earn 1 agapite Hammer than someone doing the DOOM gauntlet. I can earn at least a million gold a day doing gold farming in Hythloth. So why shouldn't an Agapite Hammer go for 5 million gold?

I have used both Val hammers and almost every Agapite and Verite hammer I've ever earned. Why? Because I like to make awesome weapons! I keep the best and sell or throw away the rest.

Does it bother me when I see a dupe that has allowed someone else to have 50+ val hammers? Well, of course! Why does it bother me? The primary reason it bothers me is because someone is cheating in the game and EA/Mythic doesn't appear to be doing anything about it. By the time they do something about it, the hammers will be used up and only legitimate-looking weapons/armor will be left.

Do I care what the price is for Val hammers? Well, sort of. I probably will never sell one, but when I see the price fall, I know there is a cheat involved.

Why do I spend so much time doing BOD's? It's what I enjoy doing in the game. If I was doing it strictly for the gold, I would have quit long ago since I have more gold than I can spend (around 200 million right now, since I've sold alot). I've decided to stop selling gold out of the game because that's just not worth my time.

Well, enough babbling.

THANK YOU SETNAFFA!!!

The problem is the cheating...I am looking at so many posts blaming EA, blaming the people that buy them, even blaming the people who put hours and hours of legitimate time and effort into it...lets not forget the fault truly lies with the people doing it! Just because there is a cheat available, doesn't mean everyone should/could/would join in and do it too.

 

[LeeHarvey]

Ive been sittin' back and just laughing at your skewed view on things, but I couldnt turn this one down.

And I think Microsoft actually likes it when people pirate their software because at the end of the day, you are using a microsoft product and will more than likely eventually buy something from them for your computer.

How irrational is that...I mean seriously I called a friend whos never even played UO to laugh at this one.

WOW dude what other kinda crimes can you rationalize?

 

[Trebr Drab]

THANK YOU SETNAFFA!!!

The problem is the cheating...I am looking at so many posts blaming EA, blaming the people that buy them, even blaming the people who put hours and hours of legitimate time and effort into it...lets not forget the fault truly lies with the people doing it! Just because there is a cheat available, doesn't mean everyone should/could/would join in and do it too.

Jeeze. Given the fact that there are people in this big world who will gladly take advantage of cheats, don't you think that the producers should at least consider ways to design their product to avoid it as best as possible?

 

[Lord Kynd]

it is really to bad you have to use a web site that utilizes scripting to list everything in luna and a few special vendors to find out this stuff..

this makes you as bad as the duper, because you are cheating others by using that site to find things.

now, whoever is in 'the loop' mind giving me a few of them hammers....for free

 

[Lord Kynd]

Ive been sittin' back and just laughing at your skewed view on things, but I couldnt turn this one down.



How irrational is that...I mean seriously I called a friend whos never even played UO to laugh at this one.

WOW dude what other kinda crimes can you rationalize?

rationalization only comes when you don't have blinders(ignorance) on..

irrational ? hardly, actually microsoft does see it that way according to one of my friends who works there. with a company like microsoft and it's now former boss's viewpoints..
they want microsoft to be in every houshold and on serveral items in your house, TV's,Fridge's,computers,...(this is the former CEO's dream)

i could fairly easily name off 30-60 people whom i know personally who refuse to pay 200$+ for a OS.

your also talking about one of the richest company's in the world. a few 'pireted users' only strengthen there foothold into society.

personally i would perfer linx over any microsoft product, but hey, we ARE forced basicly to use windows... unless you want to use a ' yuck' mac .

use your head, microsoft is about numbers.

without microsoft what state would the computing world be in ? IBM land yuck..

perhap's if 'they' didn't charge so darned much people wouldn't pirate?
stop trying to get rich overnight, ohh wait they are already rich.. hope all that $ does someone good after they have passed on.
lol

not sure what this had to do with UO but you are off your rocker all the same.

 

[o2bavr6]

rationalization only comes when you don't have blinders(ignorance) on..

irrational ? hardly, actually microsoft does see it that way according to one of my friends who works there. with a company like microsoft and it's now former boss's viewpoints..
they want microsoft to be in every houshold and on serveral items in your house, TV's,Fridge's,computers,...(this is the former CEO's dream)

i could fairly easily name off 30-60 people whom i know personally who refuse to pay 200$+ for a OS.

your also talking about one of the richest company's in the world. a few 'pireted users' only strengthen there foothold into society.

personally i would perfer linx over any microsoft product, but hey, we ARE forced basicly to use windows... unless you want to use a ' yuck' mac .

use your head, microsoft is about numbers.

without microsoft what state would the computing world be in ? IBM land yuck..

perhap's if 'they' didn't charge so darned much people wouldn't pirate?
stop trying to get rich overnight, ohh wait they are already rich.. hope all that $ does someone good after they have passed on.
lol

not sure what this had to do with UO but you are off your rocker all the same.

Heh, I was going to respond to his post, but I didn't think he would be able to relate.

I've been in the Tech industry since the early 90's as well as the corporate envionment and I know how they think. They wont admit it in public but they do think the way I said.

I understand why he doesnt agree, because it sort of goes against normal marketing, but there are times when normal marketing don't apply.

It is for these times that they turn a blind eye, because every copy of an OS they don't sell may be a sale to Apple. They would rather someone use a pirated version of Windows than that person buying a Mac and never using a Microsoft product.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I would rather pay a cheater 15 mill than paying 50 mill to someone who got one legitimately.

We get it. As long as a duper benefits you personally, the rest of the UO players that their existence negatively affects can get screwed.

 

[o2bavr6]

We get it. As long as a duper benefits you personally, the rest of the UO players that their existence negatively affects can get screwed.

I suppose that is a matter of perspective. At most it affects crafters ability to make 50 mill, so they can only make 15 mill because of dupes.

Beyond that, every single person in the game has the ability to buy one of those hammers for 15 mill, where as not everyone in the game can afford 50 mill for an item.

So when the item is not duped and has been received legitimately the person sells it for 50 mill thus excluding over 90% of the entire population which on its own has a negative affect on players.

So I can say the same to you: As long as a honet crafters benefit you personally, the rest of the UO players that their existence negatively affects can get screwed