Punkbuster in Warhammer?

[Raina]

What is the real difference between PB and Warden? Do they work pretty much the same? I know that WoW uses Warden and a system of ingame reporting to monitor their games, so I'm not sure what the difference is.

The big thing that's different between PB and Warden? Blizzard wrote Warden, the data being sent, is sent to Blizzard, Blizzard is the company with which I have an agreement, Blizzard states that there is no personal information being sent. Blizzard, as a company, has a pretty good track record, and a lot to loose by lying to their customer base, especially since eventually they'd get caught at it.

EA created (insert game, War/UO/etc), The data being sent, it sent to a third party (Even Balance), EA is the company with which I have an agreement. EA has a pretty iffy track record as a game company at best. While they also have a lot to loose, it's certainly less so, as any legal issues would of course be deferred to Even Balance.

I'd personally, have a lot better chance if EA wrote their own system, explained exactly what it did and exactly what information was being sent, to EA's Servers.

All in all, that's really the biggest difference.

~Rai

 

[Ravenspyre]

Reading through this thread really shows a person just how many inexperienced people reply without facts to back anything up...

I see a lot of posts that are nothing more than the persons personal belief on why this happened or why that didn't and so on and so fourth.

I was going to dig up some things just to point out the truth behind much of it but after scrolling down reading more and more BS I decided it would take more effort than it would be worth lol.

Oh well believe what you want...

Well as I continue to state, Raina, galen and JC, to name a few, really are clueless. They are the first to jump on the scripter bandwagon about how bad it has gotten,y et are the first to denoucne and throw out accusing fingers whenever methods to try and curb them are presented. It's really sad how great the ignorance on the net has gotten these days.

Oh well

 

[Coranthe]

This is the legal conumdrum EA faced with implementing Punkbuster in UO:

They sold customers a product without it to begin with and then wanted to add it. The means of adding it would have to be through the patch system in use. Some adults purchased this product for their kids. Those same adults are not required to consent to every game patch. The patches occur merely from making a connection to their servers. This software has the ability to collect alot of data from their PC without those adults every being notified. In short EA could not be 100% sure their customers were aware of the proposed change and gave their informed consent.

With the new product coming out they can insert all the necessary legalese in it from the start.

 

[JC the Builder]

I'd personally, have a lot better chance if EA wrote their own system, explained exactly what it did and exactly what information was being sent, to EA's Servers.

If this was such an issue I doubt the United States Army would use Punkbuster in their game, considering how many government employees play it from locations with information which is a million times more sensitive than what is on your hard drive. If there was any question about Punkbuster they wouldn't use it in their game and would disallow employees from installing games with it.

It is an irrational fear that they are going to snoop you prized cooking recipes when there are much more valuable targets of information. And the second EvenBalance oversteps their bounds it will be on every internet news site before the end of the day.

 

[galefan2004]

Reading through this thread really shows a person just how many inexperienced people reply without facts to back anything up...

I'm unexperienced? The person that works for a computer company doing tech support is unexperienced? Please list your credidentials oh great one. I mean, seriously, being here during the whole debate and reading countless ammount of research about it makes me "inexperienced". Here is the basic point...anything that makes you turn off all of your internet security software including anti-virus and firewalls just to make it usable has NO place on my computer. If you wish to put in on yours then go for it.

I see a lot of posts that are nothing more than the persons personal belief on why this happened or why that didn't and so on and so fourth.

It has NOTHING to do with personal belief. I was here when the entire UHall and most of the players in the game were up in arms about PB.

I was going to dig up some things just to point out the truth behind much of it but after scrolling down reading more and more BS I decided it would take more effort than it would be worth lol.

Seeing it doesn't exist then I would love to see you take the effort. You really can't dispute that the majority of the player base didn't want PB, that PB was greeted with a huge ammount of protest on these boards and in game, and that WoW doesn't use PB but still polices cheating.

Oh well believe what you want...

Why not, it seems like thats what you do? Keep believing you are right an everyone that doesn't agree with you is an idiot.

 

[galefan2004]

EA created (insert game, War/UO/etc), The data being sent, it sent to a third party (Even Balance), EA is the company with which I have an agreement. EA has a pretty iffy track record as a game company at best. While they also have a lot to loose, it's certainly less so, as any legal issues would of course be deferred to Even Balance.

So it is as I thought then. I have very little issue allowing Warden to access my computer. I also know that you can run fire walls and anti-virus and still use Warden but you can't with PB. That raises HUGE red flags for me. It seems like EA is taking the lazy way out and outsourcing their game protection instead of taking the necessary measures to secure it theirselves, and people honestly wonder why WoW has 10 million players.

 

[phantus]

It has NOTHING to do with personal belief. I was here when the entire UHall and most of the players in the game were up in arms about PB.

It was half at best. Uhall is the worst slice of the UO demo you could possible cite too. Most of the pancakes was from the same 10 people as is the case with many things on the hall. The majority of people I knew didn't really give a rats ass. Half those people don't play anymore. Go figure.

What it boils down to is the game has rampant cheating going on. Quite possibly the worst in the industry. Anything would be better than nothing and we all should know by now that UO is not going to police cheaters. It has caters to cheaters and griefers for over a decade.

So...is this debate still about punkbuster in warhammer because it's pretty much been determined that PB isn't going into UO?

 

[galefan2004]

Well as I continue to state, Raina, galen and JC, to name a few, really are clueless. They are the first to jump on the scripter bandwagon about how bad it has gotten,y et are the first to denoucne and throw out accusing fingers whenever methods to try and curb them are presented. It's really sad how great the ignorance on the net has gotten these days.

Oh well

Please point out ONE place that I have EVER jumped on the anti-scripter bandwagon? Go look...you won't find anything, but you can look. What I have said time and time again is that scripting skills should be 100% legal. Unattended scripting of skills should even be 100% legal. People that ABUSE scripts in PvP (to get an advantage) and in PvM (to farm gold) should be banned. Everyone else should pretty much be left alone. I don't believe for a moment that EA can't spot a gold farmer or a pvp cheater.

I would welcome EA creating a program to track gold farmers and pvp cheaters, but if they aren't willing to rework their systems to make them more than just meer continual mouse clicks then they better not even think about attacking skill scripters.

The only ignorance here is from you. You are misrepresenting what others say to attempt to get your own point accross. Don't do that because you simply can't back it up. You already tried to misrepresent what I have said without any evidence to back it up. I have yet to misrepresent anything you have said. I would have to say that the truely clueless one is the one that can't figure out that if you try to put word's in someone's posts that aren't there you look very foolish.

 

[galefan2004]

It is an irrational fear that they are going to snoop you prized cooking recipes when there are much more valuable targets of information. And the second EvenBalance oversteps their bounds it will be on every internet news site before the end of the day.

According to their own TOS, EB has the right to access any and all files on the hard drive of the computer. That means THEY HAVE NO BOUNDS. They can look at ANY information they want. They also force you to turn off your internet security software. No game is worth doing that for. If you want to do it then go for it, but even though I have nothing on my computer that is of security concerns, I refuse to give any company a welcome mat, door key, and map to my computer.

 

[galefan2004]

It was half at best. Uhall is the worst slice of the UO demo you could possible cite too. Most of the pancakes was from the same 10 people as is the case with many things on the hall. The majority of people I knew didn't really give a rats ass. Half those people don't play anymore. Go figure.

You remember it differently. It was more like the majority of the UHall, and there were ingame sit ins held. Most of the players didn't want PB. The only ones that did haven't shut up about it in 3 years.

What it boils down to is the game has rampant cheating going on. Quite possibly the worst in the industry. Anything would be better than nothing and we all should know by now that UO is not going to police cheaters. It has caters to cheaters and griefers for over a decade.

Oh, and PB was susposed to magically change that? If EA won't even bother to police its own game then why the hell should I allow a third party to do it. Other than in PvP the cheating in this game does not matter. I could give a damn less if someone goes out and script mines (please give me access to mass resources for a low price seeing no one else even bothers to mine), scripts their skills (oh no you have a 120 crafter is going to destroy my game play), or even gold farms as long as its not to an extreme extent. Cheating in PvP is unacceptable, but if you don't like it then simply don't PvP. I don't think the cheating is as bad as what some people want to make it out to be. Most people are simply worrying about things that affect them in absolutely no way.

So...is this debate still about punkbuster in warhammer because it's pretty much been determined that PB isn't going into UO?

No. It got hijacked and turned into a give us PB in UO whine.

 

[JC the Builder]

According to their own TOS, EB has the right to access any and all files on the hard drive of the computer. That means THEY HAVE NO BOUNDS.

Just because they have the power does not mean they are using it. If they started snooping through files and sending back the information no one would use their service anymore.

They also force you to turn off your internet security software.

I never have to turn off my firewall or anti-virus when running a Punkbuster enabled game. It is just something companies say to do if their game doesn't work. Even UO tells you to shut it off. It doesn't mean it won't work with them on. You just have to make sure it is configured correctly.

 

[Ravenspyre]

Please point out ONE place that I have EVER jumped on the anti-scripter bandwagon? Go look...you won't find anything, but you can look.

LOL, convenient for you eh? Considering allt he old Stratics posts are not even up, and doubtful most of them will ever return in full eh? A matter of convenience for you.

 

[Extra Value Meal]

Please explain why the most successful computer game of all times doesn't use PB if its so successful. Also, WoW still has ways to police cheaters without using it, so it must not be necessary.

*clears throat* Warden?

also know that you can run fire walls and anti-virus and still use Warden but you can't with PB.

And uhh, wrong.

 

[Wenchkin]

Well as I continue to state, Raina, galen and JC, to name a few, really are clueless. They are the first to jump on the scripter bandwagon about how bad it has gotten,y et are the first to denoucne and throw out accusing fingers whenever methods to try and curb them are presented. It's really sad how great the ignorance on the net has gotten these days.

Oh well

Nah, other players are entitled to do what they wish with their PCs, just as you are with yours. What's sad is that you and other posters here find it necessary to accuse others of cheating and being clueless just because they are more wary of Punkbuster than you are. Get over yourselves.

You talk about ignorance - do you truly believe that cheats can't program a step ahead of Punkbuster? If a cheat is earning a RL income from UO, are you telling me they'd just take the drop in income without trying to out-program Punkbuster's developers? That's a very optomistic view IMO.

Wenchy

 

[Lord Kynd]

Well as I continue to state, Raina, galen and JC, to name a few, really are clueless. They are the first to jump on the scripter bandwagon about how bad it has gotten,y et are the first to denoucne and throw out accusing fingers whenever methods to try and curb them are presented. It's really sad how great the ignorance on the net has gotten these days.

Oh well

lol, and you say they are ignorant ? haha

what you don't relize son is that these programs can be hiden from such detecting programs.
but then again i fall into the old player catagory and know alot more than the kiddies also.

 

[Lord Kynd]

Nah, other players are entitled to do what they wish with their PCs, just as you are with yours. What's sad is that you and other posters here find it necessary to accuse others of cheating and being clueless just because they are more wary of Punkbuster than you are. Get over yourselves.

You talk about ignorance - do you truly believe that cheats can't program a step ahead of Punkbuster? If a cheat is earning a RL income from UO, are you telling me they'd just take the drop in income without trying to out-program Punkbuster's developers? That's a very optomistic view IMO.

Wenchy

talk about true ignorance..
these people don't seem to relize how the 'underground' world of computing works. as soon as a new program is made there are groups of people, call teh hackers ok.. that tear the programs apart and make hacks/serial code's whatever for them..
at best a new program will have 2 days tops before someone makes workarounds for them..
and you people that seem to think for some reason WoW doesn't have cheats or hacks. i laugh extramly hard at you for being so blind.
this being said, you are the one's that need to chose what you want to do and how you want to play the game's you pay for. not the company's... if your morals are so deminished that you can't play a game without cheating then it is you that is cheating yourself. not other people, just yourself.

your cheats are not effecting the way i play nor are they taking away from my enjoyment of the game.. so keep on cheating yourself.

but like aways... it's like 5 people that are constantly crying about this stuff.. are ya'll having that much problems playing because of what someone else does??? nope

i might get jelouse at some thingspeople obtain, but i have done fairly well for myself playing without cheating, enough to say i am prolly better off than 90% of the people who do cheat and have to worry because they do.

you don't have to cheat to make 1 billion gold or have a castle(s), you just need to apply yourself better.

so get out there and work the game, not the cheat's.
fight the cheats by not buying gold for cash, don't buy items or resources that are liklly to be had by cheaters... in short, don't support them. they do it because of there inability to be able to actually play a game correctly.